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| DawnFoster | the current aava devices are pre-production prototype systems for development only | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: hmm, turns out they screw up their own adverts too | 00:00 |
| thiago_home | aava sells to operators that want to customise their own devices | 00:00 |
| DawnFoster | cosmohill: nice! | 00:00 |
| thiago_home | at least, that's what their website says | 00:00 |
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| DrHalan | well my problem is that my current cellphone is broken and i need one in the next days/weeks. i thought the n900 was kindof fine but read taht the battery hasn't much power. | 00:01 |
| thiago_home | it's rather good | 00:02 |
| DrHalan | so i am thinking about either just buying it anyways or using android. but i am not really a fan of java nor google | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | if I don't use the wifi all the time (which I do during weekdays), it lasts a couple of days | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | 3 or 4 | 00:02 |
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| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: so how are you? | 00:02 |
| ali1234 | hmm... r&d mode is really useful :) | 00:02 |
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| thiago_home | with the wifi turned on all the time, it lasts between one day and a half and two | 00:03 |
| DawnFoster | cosmohill: really good. Things are going pretty well for me right now. You? | 00:04 |
| thiago_home | if the wifi is in use all the time (always connected to email), then it's one day | 00:04 |
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| DrHalan | well one day is fine | 00:04 |
| DrHalan | the test said "3 hours" if you are surfing /watching videos | 00:04 |
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| thiago_home | nah | 00:04 |
| thiago_home | well, if you're watching videos, maybe | 00:04 |
| CosmoHill | today has been a good day :) productive | 00:04 |
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| thiago_home | but you don't do that for 3 hours on a mobile | 00:05 |
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| DrHalan | heeh well but i can imagein that i browse websites for 3 hours on my way to work | 00:06 |
| DrHalan | but mh i guess i'll think about just buying it | 00:06 |
| DrHalan | is the keyboard usable? | 00:06 |
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| ali1234 | DrHalan: the keyboard isn't the greatest but it is usable | 00:07 |
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| DrHalan | at least its physical | 00:09 |
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| DrHalan | the n9 looks really nice, sadly i can't wait that long | 00:09 |
| lcukn900 | some people think its amazing and can type rly fast on it | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | i can type faster on the kb of my old wizard... the keys are much bigger and it has 4 rows | 00:10 |
| * CosmoHill thinks it's imaginary | 00:10 | |
| DrHalan | wondering how the german layout is with umlauts etc.. | 00:11 |
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| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: I go back to uni in 3 weeks :o | 00:11 |
| DawnFoster | cosmoHill: wow, that seems so soon - the summer just flew by | 00:12 |
| CosmoHill | my uni goes back about a month earlier than most | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | DrHalan: three keys assigned to them | 00:12 |
| ali1234 | DrHalan: i heard some of the international layouts are terrible - can't remember which ones though | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | DrHalan: next to l and p | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | DrHalan: you mean on the N900? | 00:12 |
| ali1234 | can't remember which one this is: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26328476@N02/4117627018/ | 00:13 |
| ali1234 | but look what they did to the arrow keys :( | 00:13 |
| thiago_home | DrHalan: the directional keys are reduced from 4 to 2 | 00:13 |
| thiago_home | I only use the English layout | 00:13 |
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| thiago_home | umlaut and å are accessible via the symbol menu | 00:14 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: how are you meant to play a game with that? what if you want to move diagonally | 00:14 |
| thiago_home | unfortunately, that means æ and ø are out | 00:14 |
| thiago_home | CosmoHill: use the accelerometre :-) | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | CosmoHill: yeah well, pressing up + left is impossible anyway on this kb | 00:15 |
| CosmoHill | hush you | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | unless you have matchsticks for fingers | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | but typing ip addresses is the worst | 00:16 |
| CosmoHill | I (like most apple users) am impressed that I can do more than one thing at once on my phone | 00:16 |
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| TheSystem | hi, | 00:16 |
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| ali1234 | so here's an interesting fact: qemu-n900 has a 32 bit framebuffer but the real n900 is 16 bit | 00:16 |
| ali1234 | so i need to figure out how to detect i am running in the emulator :) | 00:17 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 00:17 |
| TheSystem | Does someone know the commandline in the bootmenue for booting in "shell-mode". I am using meego for netbooks. | 00:18 |
| _wolf_ | co I man.. | 00:18 |
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| TheSystem | the kernel crashes, because it doesn't like my nvidia card... | 00:18 |
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| DrHalan | how much did oyu guys pay for the n900? | 00:28 |
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| CosmoHill | depends how much it takes to get the owner drunk | 00:29 |
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| ali1234 | well i found the problem... attempting to write to the serial port hangs the real N900 | 00:58 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:11 |
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| ali1234 | got it :) | 01:28 |
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| ali1234 | i need to turn off nand support, it doesn't play nice with the real n900 | 01:29 |
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| drizztbsd | uhm n900 does not want to start | 01:44 |
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| CosmoHill | does it do anything? | 01:45 |
| TheSystem | have you tried the russian hammer? | 01:45 |
| ScottishDuck | install gentoo | 01:46 |
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| miticofioz | hi! | 02:20 |
| miticofioz | anyone got broadcom wireless work under meego-ivi? | 02:20 |
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| miticofioz | i followed the slaine's guide but with no luck... | 02:21 |
| miticofioz | when i try to load the wl.ko module it says : invalid module format.. | 02:21 |
| miticofioz | :( | 02:22 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:25 |
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| ali1234 | ok that's the annoying nand problem fixed | 03:59 |
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| Saviq | X-Fade, lbt: hi guys, read that I need to contact you to get into the community OBS? | 04:14 |
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| ali1234 | Saviq: they are still setting it up | 04:18 |
| Saviq | ali1234: yes I know, but I could help, at least in testing | 04:19 |
| Saviq | and the wiki page said to contact them, so... doing it ;) | 04:19 |
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| ali1234 | Saviq: probably better to ask in the daytime (european daytime that is) | 04:22 |
| Saviq | will do | 04:23 |
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| sriram | Is there some place where I can get instructions to checkout Meego trunk and build it for my netbook? | 06:20 |
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| DawnFoster | The Community Office Meeting starts in about 30 minutes in #meego-meeting. Details here: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings | 07:30 |
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| lbt | mmf | 07:45 |
| DawnFoster | morning lbt :) | 07:46 |
| lbt | good morning | 07:46 |
| lbt | how's you? | 07:46 |
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| DawnFoster | good - I just have to get through this meeting and I can go to bed | 07:47 |
| DawnFoster | I have another 7am meeting tomorrow am :) | 07:47 |
| lbt | me too | 07:47 |
| * Stskeeps tries to awaken but fails | 07:54 | |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: you can do it! | 07:54 |
| * X-Fade needs a lot of coffee | 07:55 | |
| timoph | already 8am here :) | 07:56 |
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| vgrade | morning | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | well at least i'm glad it's not a telco | 07:57 |
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| X-Fade | Indeed. | 07:59 |
| lbt | sent a mail to -community to reply to Quim | 08:00 |
| lbt | no Jaffa? | 08:01 |
| lbt | part-timer ;) | 08:01 |
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| * slaine yawns and stretches and gets a coffee | 08:08 | |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I was just noting it - Jaffa and dneary will also be interested :) | 08:11 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: we can talk about this later - there were reasons to have one page on the website for contribution guidelines | 08:11 |
| DawnFoster | the page was already there and linked to, but blank | 08:11 |
| DawnFoster | searchability, etc. | 08:11 |
| DawnFoster | it will link to the other, more detailed guidelines on the wiki | 08:12 |
| DawnFoster | this was an exception made for good reasons, not a "change" in how we are treating documentation | 08:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah, makes sense | 08:13 |
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| lbt | slaine: sure | 08:23 |
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| hhartz | any MeeGo Touch guys around? | 08:26 |
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| zEeLi | Hey guys, I'm trying to compile libmeegotouch, but I get some warnings. How do I remove the -Werror from the gcc calls? | 08:33 |
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| Stskeeps | man, this really is a morning of inflammatory topics.. :P | 08:41 |
| timoph | :) | 08:41 |
| timoph | it wakes you up | 08:41 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: what again? | 08:43 |
| lbt | ooh... sunlight | 08:45 |
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| * slaine scratches face, hmmm I need a shave | 08:55 | |
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| lbt | dneary: see earlier comments about wiki/docs | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | /query dneary | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | err.. | 08:58 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, what does /query do? | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: moves to your window :) | 09:02 |
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| dneary | lbt, Might have been before I got on | 09:02 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: we can talk about this later - there were reasons to have one page on the website for contribution guidelines | 09:03 |
| DawnFoster | the page was already there and linked to, but blank | 09:03 |
| DawnFoster | searchability, etc. | 09:03 |
| DawnFoster | it will link to the other, more detailed guidelines on the wiki | 09:03 |
| DawnFoster | this was an exception made for good reasons, not a "change" in how we are treating documentation | 09:03 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: you're making too much out of a single page move to the website :) | 09:03 |
| lbt | nipping it in the bud | 09:03 |
| lbt | if it's a "single page move" then we can move it back, yes? | 09:04 |
| X-Fade | How about linking it to the original page in the wiki? | 09:04 |
| lbt | sounds good | 09:04 |
| X-Fade | Wiki pages can be write protected if needed. | 09:04 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: what do you think? | 09:04 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: I hate write protected wiki pages | 09:05 |
| DawnFoster | I think it's fine to have a single contribution guidelines page on the website | 09:05 |
| lbt | why? | 09:05 |
| DawnFoster | I'm happy to talk about this later, but not right before bed | 09:05 |
| DawnFoster | you guys can catch me on this in my morning | 09:05 |
| lbt | OK ... tomorrow ... g'night | 09:05 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Well website page is write protected too ;) | 09:05 |
| DawnFoster | website pages are meant to be write protected | 09:06 |
| DawnFoster | wiki pages are not | 09:06 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Hehe, good night. Don't let us keep you up :) | 09:06 |
| DawnFoster | this is less about write protection and more about searchability and having useful information on our website for people to find easily | 09:06 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Maybe all is needed then is to point to the wiki page revision at the bottom of that page. | 09:07 |
| X-Fade | So the source is known. | 09:07 |
| X-Fade | 'Exported from ...' | 09:07 |
| * Stskeeps looks at his morning coffee | 09:07 | |
| DawnFoster | (tuning out - going to bed) | 09:08 |
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| Stskeeps | mm, sleep, that would be good right now | 09:09 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Do you ever sleep? :) | 09:13 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade: yeah, usually between 11pm and 6am | 09:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:13 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Hehe ;) | 09:13 |
| Stskeeps | i don't want to get paranoid like when i've not gotten enough sleep | 09:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | bad for business :) | 09:14 |
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| Myrtti | wow, a computer | 10:41 |
| * Myrtti has returned from her vacation | 10:41 | |
| Stskeeps | where have you been, the north pole? :P | 10:41 |
| Myrtti | Cornwall | 10:41 |
| Myrtti | http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncansample/4916953618/ | 10:43 |
| Tumi_ | nice umbrella! | 10:44 |
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| asj | Myrtti: you are right, there are no computers in cornwall based on those pics :) | 10:45 |
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| sejo | hmm the rescue-n900 image reboots after a minute or so (even when i'm in the busybox) | 11:06 |
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| johnx | sejo, does N900 have a hardware watchdog like the N8x0 did? | 11:17 |
| sejo | johnx: I have no idea! | 11:18 |
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| Stskeeps | it does | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | newer kernels has that sorted though | 11:18 |
| sejo | Stskeeps: well was trying to see if I can mount the sd manually but by the time i type mount it shuts down :p | 11:20 |
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| johnx | sejo, some advice on disabling the watchdog, halfway down the page: | 11:23 |
| johnx | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=532 | 11:23 |
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| sejo | johnx: ok i'll test that | 11:26 |
| johnx | it's just a thought. keep in mind I haven't tried that ... | 11:26 |
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| sejo | nope didin't help with the rescue image ;/ | 11:28 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:36 |
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| sivang | DawnFoster: sponsered travel/lodging | 12:15 |
| sivang | morning Jaffa | 12:15 |
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| vgrade_ | morning BuBU, hows the A9 dev going? | 12:27 |
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| Stskeeps | _BuBU: ever got handset ux going on there? | 12:29 |
| _BuBU | hi guys | 12:30 |
| _BuBU | I'm on vacations | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | ah ;) | 12:30 |
| _BuBU | I did not went further yet | 12:30 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders idly why the hotel claims i should arrange payment. | 12:59 | |
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| * Jaffa was wondering that too | 13:00 | |
| Jaffa | Especially since they have his CC details | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:00 |
| * Jaffa filed it under the handy dandy "Archive" button | 13:00 | |
| Stskeeps | i mailed back and asked what's they're on about, in nice diplomatic terms | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | and i would have killed them if they sent my credit card details in plain tet. | 13:01 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: It was in a PDF! | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | i got mine in ad oc | 13:01 |
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| Jaffa | Oh, was it? Gmail showed it in their preview thingy anyway | 13:03 |
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| bhundven | I've look around, and around, for info on porting meego. Or how to build the meego platform, not the sdk. | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | first off, what do you intend to do? | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | X86 or ARM porting? | 13:19 |
| bhundven | x86, but for a110 (not the acer, the intel a110) | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | does it do SSSE3? | 13:20 |
| bhundven | no, is that only needed for the opengl es 2.0 stuff? | 13:21 |
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| Stskeeps | generally for the whole system | 13:21 |
| bhundven | ok... so what if I wanted to port it to a freescale chip. | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | freescale is easier as armv5 and armv7 exists for meego | 13:22 |
| bhundven | sure, I guess what I am looking for is a document that contains the requirements for the platform. | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | right, so, meego is currently compiled for X86: tuned for core2, SSSE3 instructions. for ARM: armv5 and armv7 | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | that's the binary packages delivered off repo.meego.com | 13:24 |
| bhundven | ah, but there isn't any source for that. | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | sure there is :) | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | in source/ directory | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | but it's like redhat/fedora/debian, source packages are made into binary packages, not rebuilt every time for a image | 13:25 |
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| bhundven | right, that makes sense | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | you can probably build for your own processor or whatever, but sometimes it's not worth it unless it just doesn't work | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | an arm rebuild can take up to 3 days | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | with a build farm | 13:26 |
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| bhundven | yea, it would be crazy to try and port the world. I am just interested in the "Base Platform". Enough to see if I can get the wheels to roll before I drive down the street with gps ;) | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:28 |
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| bhundven | well. I'm gonna sleep (3:29am pst), but I'll lurk in case someone can answer... | 13:32 |
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| vlj | the latest chromium build is really fast with --enable-accelerated-compositing flag | 14:43 |
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| timoph | sorry about the short notice but QA-tools meeting starting in about 5 minutes in #meego-meeting | 14:55 |
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| vilvo | thanks timoph - i was about to announce that :) | 14:55 |
| timoph | np | 14:56 |
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| ali1234 | does anyone know the method used to detect LCD type on N900? | 15:18 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: MIPID maybe | 15:20 |
| ali1234 | MIPID? | 15:20 |
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| ali1234 | the LCD takes serial command? hmm | 15:21 |
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| ali1234 | looks complicated... i really just need to detect qemu :) | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | it emulates acx panel afaik | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | might be wrong | 15:24 |
| ali1234 | in qemu the framebuffer is 32bit, in n900 it is 16 bit | 15:24 |
| ali1234 | i suspect qemu follows the host colour depth | 15:25 |
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| vlj | Stskeeps: how long did it takes to port meego to arm ? | 15:40 |
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| Stskeeps | vlj: who says we're done? ;) | 15:41 |
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| vlj | hmm | 15:41 |
| thiago | vlj: we just typed make | 15:42 |
| thiago | :-) | 15:42 |
| vlj | well I'm tempted to get toshiba smartbook | 15:42 |
| vlj | but I'm not sure it can run "out of the box" with arm build of meego | 15:42 |
| thiago | that depends on the HW | 15:43 |
| thiago | ARM has a lot more HW differences than x86 | 15:43 |
| vlj | tegra 2 :/ | 15:43 |
| thiago | and a lot less in detecting | 15:43 |
| thiago | Tegra is very high-end... | 15:43 |
| thiago | however, the team is focussing on OMAP3 | 15:43 |
| vlj | so it won't work with tegra 2 ? | 15:43 |
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| * thiago needs to call NVidia again to get that other Tegra board they promised | 15:43 | |
| CosmoHill | cool | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | vlj: tegra 2 should work | 15:44 |
| thiago | vlj: unknown. YMMV now. | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | armv7 without neon | 15:44 |
| vlj | YMMV ? | 15:44 |
| vlj | you may vary...? | 15:44 |
| vlj | I mean binary for arm are not forward compatible or ...? | 15:45 |
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| Bostik | vlj: "Your Mileage May Vary" | 15:48 |
| vlj | ok | 15:49 |
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| lbt | vilvo, jani, timoph... ping... re QA/test automation | 16:13 |
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| lbt | sorry I missed the meego-meeting... just caught the backlog | 16:13 |
| timoph | pong | 16:14 |
| vilvo | ping | 16:14 |
| lbt | so have you seen the nokia-led work being done around BOSS? | 16:14 |
| vilvo | not seen, ramez forgot to invite me to demo :) | 16:15 |
| lbt | have you seen the wiki overview? | 16:15 |
| lbt | we are deploying it internally this week | 16:15 |
| lbt | and to MeeGo as soon as I get some access | 16:15 |
| lbt | current status: "it lives" | 16:15 |
| timoph | cool | 16:16 |
| lbt | the OTS team are now looking actively | 16:16 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Infrastructure/BOSS | 16:16 |
| lbt | is the main overview page | 16:16 |
| vilvo | lbt: I've seen wiki overview and sent the link around for people who have asked about boss | 16:16 |
| lbt | OK ... the focus is on automating the process around build | 16:16 |
| lbt | but I think it would make a useful tool to orchestrate series of tests too | 16:17 |
| timoph | so basically taking some tasks from OTS? | 16:17 |
| vilvo | we have the same target | 16:17 |
| odin_ | how is OBS upgrade going/gone ? is there a thread/article/wiki on that ? | 16:17 |
| lbt | I can see OTS could use the core engine | 16:17 |
| lbt | but that's a longer term design issue for the team | 16:18 |
| lbt | I'd really like OTS to be able to focus on test management and analysis | 16:18 |
| lbt | and allow initiattion to be BOSS driven | 16:18 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: do you have a like to the logs? | 16:18 |
| lbt | possibly moving to a BOSS driven test flow | 16:18 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: logs? | 16:19 |
| CosmoHill | for this morngins meeting | 16:19 |
| CosmoHill | *link | 16:19 |
| lbt | no... the usual though | 16:19 |
| lbt | so vilvo I'm in Hel next monday/tuesday | 16:19 |
| lbt | Ramez isn't around so we're not likely to have much of a demo needed | 16:20 |
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| odin_ | CosmoHill, THIS ONE? Welcome to the Community Office Meeting! Meeting started Tue Aug 31 04:57:26 2010 UTC http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-08-31-04.57.html | 16:22 |
| CosmoHill | yep | 16:22 |
| CosmoHill | I just found it thanks | 16:22 |
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| thiago | do we have a TSG meeting tonight? | 16:22 |
| * lbt rolls a dice | 16:23 | |
| vilvo | lbt: sorry, I'm now in the middle of something but we need to sync with you regarding BOSS/OTS dev | 16:23 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: 8 ball would be better :) | 16:23 |
| lbt | vilvo: ping me | 16:23 |
| vilvo | sure | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: no, it's on thursdays | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | er | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | wednesdays | 16:24 |
| thiago | oh, right | 16:24 |
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| thiago | this month has 31 days... | 16:24 |
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| mzb | hi everyone | 16:26 |
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| mzb | can anyone tell me what version this device is likely to be running? | 16:27 |
| mzb | http://szhyelec.en.alibaba.com/product/324034506-210116227/10_Epad_Freescale_CPU_1Ghz.html | 16:27 |
| mzb | can you tell from the kernel version alone? | 16:28 |
| mzb | (2.6.31) | 16:28 |
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| odin_ | mzb, maybe ask the vendor, it is in an android tablet pc section, this channel is to do with meego | 16:29 |
| Flashtek | 478 | 16:29 |
| mzb | the device runs meego | 16:29 |
| Flashtek | OS: MeeGo linux 2.6.31 ( Equal to Android 2.2 ) | 16:30 |
| Flashtek | specifically | 16:30 |
| mzb | and yes, I've sent the vendor a question | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | we never had 2.6.31 | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | impressive specs though.. supporting 10.1 on arm and internet explorer | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:31 |
| odin_ | re the " Equal to Android 2.2 " don't you just love marketing departments | 16:32 |
| Flashtek | odin_: indeed.. | 16:32 |
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| odin_ | it is probably more a case of, "we just make it, please order 50k devices from us, and we will get MeeGo working on it :)" | 16:33 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, yeah quite impressive, would be more impressed if i could write on it too | 16:34 |
| lcuk | the hp slates have that dual layered stuff | 16:34 |
| mzb | big difference in price | 16:35 |
| lcuk | indeed | 16:35 |
| lcuk | and big difference in resulting writing quality | 16:35 |
| lcuk | i tried making notes with my finger last night | 16:35 |
| lcuk | big mistake | 16:35 |
| mzb | (by an order of magnitude, I suspect;)) | 16:35 |
| * lcuk looked like doing homework on the back of bumpy bus | 16:35 | |
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| mzb | vendor has *just* replied | 16:37 |
| mzb | "just Android 2.1" | 16:37 |
| mzb | *sigh* | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | if it was hackable it wouldn't be half bad | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:37 |
| mzb | thanks for the help guys ... got my hopes up there for a while ;) | 16:37 |
| mzb | nice chip by the looks of it ... battery life is scary | 16:38 |
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| FunkyPenguin | is there a panel api change from 1.0 to 1.1? | 17:23 |
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| Infection-- | Is it possible to port Meego to other than intel architecture? | 17:50 |
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| CosmoHill | inteallahonsen: yes | 17:59 |
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| CosmoHill | by intel do you mean intel atom of x86? | 17:59 |
| thiago | CosmoHill: he's already left | 18:00 |
| thiago | CosmoHill: less than a minute in the channel | 18:00 |
| CosmoHill | I do wish people would learn the difference between IRC and a phone call | 18:01 |
| CosmoHill | "no one responded withing 60 seconds, all 480 of them must be out to lunch!" | 18:01 |
| * thiago goes back to valgrinding creator | 18:02 | |
| ali1234 | i always wonder why so many people idle in irc channels | 18:02 |
| CosmoHill | that''s the reason I got our channel bot to say "hello" to people who join | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | in any given channel 95% of the people will never speak | 18:02 |
| CosmoHill | it's important that Stskeeps idles cos he makes the stats | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | i'm in some channels with people who haven't spoken in 4 years, and were there long before i even arrived | 18:02 |
| CosmoHill | I'm only on IRC / MSN when my laptop is on and that\s only on when I'm awake (excluding naps) | 18:03 |
| ali1234 | anyway, anybody happen to know the physical address of the n900 onenand chip? | 18:04 |
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| * CosmoHill offers arjan coffee | 18:12 | |
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| niala_ | hello I try to install libmeegottouch, but ./configure tell me "QMAKESPEC has not been set, so configuration cannot be deduced. | 18:38 |
| niala_ | Error processing project file: /home/niala/src/git/libmeegotouch/projects.pro" | 18:38 |
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| CosmoHill | do you know what QMAKESPEC should be set to? | 18:41 |
| niala_ | eh no. I don't know wht is QMAKESPEC | 18:42 |
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| niala_ | grep -r -i QMAKESPEC * |more no results | 18:45 |
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| adeus | do you have libqt4-dev installed | 18:46 |
| niala_ | qt4 from git in /usr/local and qt 3.6 from meego-notebook | 18:47 |
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| niala_ | can I swap from meego-notebook.1 to daily ? I have tested to simply add daily repos. but as expect that didn't work | 18:50 |
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| niala_ | or the only solution is to reinstall with daily.ks | 18:51 |
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| hrw | morning | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt, my personal view on the irc channel things is that various teams and such has to create an identity and many teams come from internal irc networks where they had their own channels for their work.. consolidation doesn't seem to work to bootstrap work/identity :P | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | and perhaps it's for the better not to have information overload or that you join where you're interested.. | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:17 |
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| Stskeeps | aanyhow. what's the best way to show our discussion in the morning? flowchart? | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | (the OBS one) | 19:20 |
| lbt | *nod* | 19:20 |
| hrw | internal irc channels... | 19:21 |
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| lbt | I think the thing to show is the OBS using external and 'authoritative' repos. | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:22 |
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| lbt | allowing external resource to be pulled into the OBS | 19:22 |
| lbt | but not being distributed | 19:22 |
| lbt | although I'd like to present some options | 19:23 |
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| lbt | eg that as a conceptual goal | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | what other options exist? | 19:23 |
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| lbt | well, allowing "osc build" to "distribute" | 19:23 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps / lbt: I'm giving up on consolidation | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | like, hacking osc build to contact the server directly | 19:24 |
| lbt | yes | 19:24 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: change of heart or fed up with trying :) | 19:24 |
| DawnFoster | both | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: alright - it wasn't an opinion on your view as at a given point i thought consilidation would be the right way too.. | 19:24 |
| lbt | you persuaded me too | 19:24 |
| lbt | I have to say I've stumbled across relevant conversations in backlogs | 19:25 |
| DawnFoster | I think it's too early for the community to break off into silos; however, the community is so huge people can't get any work done | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | but i guess the teams that 'break out' and have their own channel are more encouraged to work in the open | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | encouraged/willing | 19:25 |
| DawnFoster | consolidation was pushing people into private channels, which is worse than silos | 19:25 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm certainly learning a fair bit about community creation through our 'problems' here :) | 19:26 |
| lbt | well, opening up organisations too | 19:26 |
| DawnFoster | The root cause of the problem is that we are 6 months old with the volume of a 5 year old project | 19:26 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: good catch on the community/project in the security call BTW | 19:27 |
| DawnFoster | and we have 2 very different communities coming together | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: and unlike other communities we haven't had a chance to grow sanely.. 1 to 400+ in 3 hours from announcement | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:27 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: thanks - I *hate* it when people talk about community as something separate - Intel, Nokia, you, me, everyone are part of the community | 19:27 |
| ali1234 | 3 communities actually | 19:27 |
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| DawnFoster | ali1234: Moblin, Maemo & ? | 19:28 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: true... but you know... I don't think it says that on MeeGo.com | 19:28 |
| ali1234 | "everyone who ever tried to contribute to maemo or moblin and got turned away" | 19:28 |
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| DawnFoster | I just gave myself a task to do a better job of defining "community" :) | 19:28 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 19:28 | |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: ah, you mean maemo.org ;) | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | rest got hired into maemo :> | 19:29 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: not really, i'm not even counting people who get paid | 19:29 |
| lbt | as an aside, DawnFoster: http://meego.com/about doesn't mention community | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | I'm going to completely revamp the community section of the website with better definitions, details by audience, etc. | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: thanks, I'll take a look at the about page, too. | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | if you need our usual nitpicking feedback, do say :) | 19:30 |
| lbt | we only complain because we care :D | 19:30 |
| lbt | and I'm *still* not done on the OBS / closed code bit :) but I hope I'm arguing constructively | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: or because meego is a career direction and we don't want to see it fail? :P | 19:31 |
| lbt | retirement policy ;) | 19:31 |
| lbt | I need something to do in 40 years | 19:31 |
| DawnFoster | I'm in this boat along with the rest of you :) | 19:31 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I actually think we agree on the principles and the technical implementation of community OBS | 19:32 |
| lbt | *nod* not far off | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I think we keep talking past each other on minor nitpicky things | 19:32 |
| lbt | I'm really thinking about other vendors | 19:32 |
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| DawnFoster | which is why I pushed for more documentation | 19:33 |
| lbt | would we rather support all meego vendors in one community? | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | my worries is that this might be a backdoor for other vendors to have "X-specific apis" | 19:33 |
| lbt | or have each go off to their own OBS | 19:33 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: agreed... that's a risk | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: also an interesting philosophical discussion | 19:33 |
| lbt | OTOH if we manage it in our OBS we policify it | 19:33 |
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| lbt | ie MeeGo-std ... MeeGo-diverged | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: maybe if we require that any closed apis must be on direction to inclusion into mainline meego ;) | 19:34 |
| lbt | easier to police too | 19:34 |
| lbt | why? | 19:34 |
| lbt | MeeGo is a baseline for commercial vendors | 19:35 |
| lbt | we refuse GPL3... | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 19:35 |
| lbt | we are pragmatically getting OSS culture and values into commercial realit | 19:35 |
| lbt | y | 19:35 |
| lbt | not ramming it down their throats | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | i haven't made up my mind about vendor specific apis but an example of how bad it can get can be seen with maemo.. | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | where they lost their flexibility to move apps easily to something like meego | 19:36 |
| lbt | yeah... and we want to provide a good place for vendors to see other vendors *doing it right* | 19:36 |
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| lbt | vendors will be part of the community too | 19:36 |
| lbt | some will be arrogant | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i think there's room for 'API extras'.. | 19:36 |
| lbt | meego surrounds... | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | like, staging area for community (vendors) where they can post apis | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | for possible merging into meego later | 19:36 |
| lbt | remember? | 19:37 |
| lbt | yes... a staging concept | 19:37 |
| lbt | in *and* out | 19:37 |
| lbt | when an API is deprecated | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:37 |
| lbt | a vendor could hold it for a while without "going rogue" | 19:37 |
| lbt | there's a lot to be said for the community OBS being more relaxed | 19:37 |
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| lbt | and core OBS being hardline | 19:38 |
| lbt | they can now point to a pragmatic solution too... which helps them stay hardline | 19:38 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: so how does that sound...? sometimes I think a debate has moments of clarity... was that useful for you? | 19:39 |
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| DawnFoster | I worry about the vendor stuff | 19:40 |
| CosmoHill | this a continuation from this morning's meeting? | 19:40 |
| DawnFoster | I'd rather have community obs be focused on open source code (from vendors or otherwise) | 19:40 |
| DawnFoster | proprietary stuff belongs elsewhere | 19:40 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: do you support people writing OSS/GPL code on windows? | 19:41 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: of course | 19:41 |
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| DawnFoster | but they can't store a copy of their windows OS on our OBS :) | 19:42 |
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| lbt | legally no | 19:42 |
| lbt | but if there were no legal barrier | 19:42 |
| lbt | just a philosophical one | 19:42 |
| DawnFoster | the open source / proprietary code split is cleaner | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: maybe a good one over beer in dublin | 19:42 |
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| DawnFoster | code "stored" (not cached) on our OBS should be open source | 19:43 |
| lbt | how about code "built" ? | 19:43 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: has there been any talk about how to handle APIs from other vendors? i mean, there's the requirements/roadmapping work, but like "standard recommendation for vendors how to deal with custom vendors, a guide" | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | custom apis, i mean | 19:45 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: building is where things start to get tricky | 19:45 |
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| slaine | Vendors where encouraged to have their own build system downstream I thought | 19:46 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: the goal is to have one MeeGo API that we support for MeeGo | 19:46 |
| lbt | to my mind that's a firm "yes, code built must be open" | 19:46 |
| slaine | where such code could reside | 19:46 |
| lbt | slaine: yes... for building their product | 19:46 |
| lbt | now... how do you build an app to run on their product? | 19:46 |
| slaine | Is there docs on how to do that btw ? | 19:46 |
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| lbt | their "differentiated and value-added" product | 19:47 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I think it gets really confusing if we let vendors push other APIs on our infrastructure | 19:47 |
| slaine | You get access to their community obs ? | 19:47 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: this is where compliance comes in | 19:47 |
| slaine | nod | 19:47 |
| lbt | slaine: so now, as a vendor, I need to support my own OBS? | 19:47 |
| slaine | I'd agree with that | 19:47 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I'll not disagree about compliance | 19:48 |
| slaine | lbt, yes, if your expecting people to link against non-open code for app dev | 19:48 |
| lbt | I'm not proposing vendor divergence | 19:48 |
| DawnFoster | if the vendor's code is compliant, you should be able to build on the community obs against open source meego, and your app will run on any meego | 19:48 |
| slaine | on an open platform | 19:48 |
| sx0n | we hit this kind of issue lately. it was solved by providing binary, not source. | 19:48 |
| lbt | notice that MeeGo APIs are a minimum | 19:48 |
| lbt | nothing stops a vendor shipping a 100% compliant API | 19:48 |
| lbt | with added APIs | 19:49 |
| lbt | that's compliant | 19:49 |
| lbt | now, any app that targets those apis, isn't a meego compliant app | 19:49 |
| slaine | correct | 19:49 |
| slaine | they're not part of the meego reference api's | 19:49 |
| lbt | even if it comes in 2 flavours, meego-compliant and meego-plus | 19:49 |
| slaine | it wouldn't be meego-plus | 19:50 |
| slaine | it'd vendor-addon | 19:50 |
| DawnFoster | if it isn't meego compliant, it won't be meego anything | 19:50 |
| lbt | badd phrase | 19:50 |
| DawnFoster | they can call it bob if they want, but not meego :) | 19:50 |
| lbt | who's they? | 19:50 |
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| lbt | the vendor produced a meego product | 19:50 |
| microlith | $vendor | 19:51 |
| slaine | yes | 19:51 |
| slaine | the app developer coding against vendor specific api's didn't | 19:51 |
| lbt | but me, as a GPL app writer, I can't write an OSS app to target $vendor's MeeGo platform? | 19:51 |
| microlith | sure you can | 19:51 |
| lbt | but not on the MeeGo community OBS | 19:52 |
| slaine | just don't use their non-oss api's, use the meego recommended one | 19:52 |
| slaine | then you have a meego complaint app that can work on any meego compliant device | 19:52 |
| slaine | including $vendors | 19:52 |
| lbt | (note, I'm not taking a position here... exploring the implications) | 19:52 |
| lbt | slaine: so... | 19:52 |
| lbt | I don't want that | 19:52 |
| lbt | just like I want a GPL app that runs on windows | 19:53 |
| sx0n | it's not going to be simple i afraid | 19:53 |
| slaine | ok, well develop your gpl app on windows using the vendor's api's, don't develope it on the meego obs | 19:53 |
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| slaine | What exactly are the API's that are closed from Maemo that are causing all this discussion anyway >? | 19:54 |
| lbt | theoretical | 19:54 |
| ali1234 | lbt: you don't need windows to build apps that run on windows, what is your point? | 19:54 |
| lbt | lets say acceleromter adn *pretend* they're not in core | 19:55 |
| sx0n | location? | 19:55 |
| lbt | sx0n: that would be another | 19:55 |
| lbt | ali1234: show me the GPL headers | 19:55 |
| * arjan wonders if amaya is around | 19:55 | |
| Stskeeps | arjan: think work day is over, anything i can help with? | 19:56 |
| lbt | hmmm DawnFoster, so if a vendor extends MeeGo on their compliant product but provides OSS implementation of the extension... *then* it's OK to target MeeGo-addon? | 19:57 |
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| lbt | so targetting extra APIs is OK if they're OSS even if they're not in MeeGo? | 19:58 |
| lbt | slaine, sx0n.... how about a cell-carrier micropayment API? | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | lbt: http://www.mingw.org/license i'm not an expert, you'll have to tell me if that is GPL compatible or not | 19:58 |
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| slaine | Even then, I'd argue that the vendor should push those extensions upstreams (to meego-extras) | 19:59 |
| lbt | ali1234: don't care.... I don't do windows. This is a conceptual debate. You can't prove a negative. | 19:59 |
| ali1234 | lbt: i'm not trying to. i'm asking you what your point is? | 19:59 |
| lbt | slaine: and that's where the real world bites you | 19:59 |
| slaine | because ? | 19:59 |
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| * slaine notes that the real world bites regardless, you just have to get on with it | 20:00 | |
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| lbt | slaine: 'cos vodaphone/visa aren't pushing their API to meego | 20:00 |
| slaine | Then your app won't be meego compliant | 20:00 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: I have some issues with the n900 kernel biting the x86 kernel | 20:00 |
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| arjan | need an n900 kernel person to help take a look | 20:00 |
| arjan | (preferably someone who works at nokia) | 20:00 |
| arjan | (since it seems to be in a nokia funded driver) | 20:00 |
| sx0n | :) | 20:00 |
| lbt | slaine: yes... | 20:01 |
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| lbt | I never said it would be | 20:01 |
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| slaine | Well, how can you expect to use and publish on a meego community obs if you're writing against code that doesn't belong in meego | 20:01 |
| lbt | I would like to write my GPL shopping app in such a way as to allow payment to be made | 20:01 |
| lbt | slaine: because my code runs on a MeeGo product | 20:01 |
| lbt | the platform with the micropayment API *is* MeeGo compliant | 20:02 |
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| lbt | my GPL app isn't | 20:02 |
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| slaine | and so as a developer you made the choice to use non-meego api's for your product, so you have to manage it yourself, aka the real world bites | 20:02 |
| lbt | slaine: but this isn't the FSF | 20:02 |
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| slaine | ? | 20:02 |
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| slaine | what's that got to do with anything | 20:03 |
| lbt | I want to write an app that runs on a MeeGo device | 20:03 |
| lbt | where do I go? | 20:03 |
| lbt | "sod off" not really a good answer | 20:03 |
| ali1234 | you go to developer.$vendor.com and download their SDK | 20:03 |
| ali1234 | and then use it | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | arjan, best way is to mail ameya/bugtracker and he'll get it to the right people. any specific driver? | 20:03 |
| lbt | ali1234: and then publish it? | 20:03 |
| lbt | on the vendor shop site? | 20:03 |
| slaine | Great, we'd recommend you use MeeGo API's for your APP, that way you can push it to MeeGo-Extra's for wide distribution and packaging on the meego community OBS | 20:03 |
| lbt | so why should the vendor no support the meego app store? | 20:04 |
| lbt | you just made them go to the expense of supporting their own | 20:04 |
| lbt | and meego diverges | 20:04 |
| slaine | If they want to use code that they don't want to put open | 20:04 |
| lbt | slaine: this is not the fsf | 20:04 |
| sx0n | apis should be extendable without need to replace/change functionality. | 20:04 |
| slaine | what has the fsf got to do with this | 20:04 |
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| lbt | MeeGo is *designed* to be a baseline distro | 20:04 |
| microlith | lbt: why should the community support proprietary APIs that are only good for a single vendor's system? | 20:05 |
| lbt | it is *designed* to have closed code put on it | 20:05 |
| slaine | we're talking about operating within the bounds of MeeGo's guidelines | 20:05 |
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| lbt | please distinguish between MeeGo core distro and the meego community | 20:05 |
| lbt | the distro is fully open | 20:05 |
| lbt | the community consists of us... GPL oriented devs | 20:05 |
| slaine | MeeGo == distro, meego == community | 20:05 |
| lbt | slaine: no | 20:06 |
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| lbt | MeeGo distro != MeeGo community | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, i'm a bsd guy :P | 20:06 |
| slaine | you're missing the case | 20:06 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: and actually this is a pro-bsd thing | 20:06 |
| microlith | lbt: are you suggesting that a program dependent on a closed source library should be hosted on a public repository geared towards the base set specified by the distro or something? | 20:06 |
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| lbt | yes | 20:06 |
| microlith | ok, why? | 20:07 |
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| lbt | an OSS program | 20:07 |
| microlith | irrelevant, no one but a subset of users can make use of it | 20:07 |
| DawnFoster | I worry that we're spending too much time in hypothetical discussions about the OBS | 20:07 |
| * lbt wonders about facebook apps | 20:07 | |
| lbt | API is probably open enough | 20:07 |
| DawnFoster | I'd like to see us focus on solutions and get it implemented | 20:08 |
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| slaine | sorry, on a call | 20:08 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: oh, we did that | 20:08 |
| slaine | lbt just likes a good discussion | 20:08 |
| microlith | lbt: compound the issue with the fact that a closed API may also be used on a device that disables and locks out the community repos | 20:08 |
| slaine | it's healthy | 20:08 |
| slaine | helps make sure we're on the right track | 20:09 |
| DawnFoster | I'm all for healthy discussion | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, what are next steps for cbuild? | 20:09 |
| lbt | slaine: it is... and I think it makes us think about some of the issues that we will face | 20:09 |
| lbt | ldap | 20:09 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: ldap. | 20:09 |
| DawnFoster | lots of people in the community office meeting got lost in the long discussion | 20:09 |
| slaine | :nod: | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, already impl but not setup i guess? | 20:09 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I got permission to setup an LDAP server on the cbuild infra | 20:09 |
| slaine | it was also very early | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | ldap backend would be? | 20:10 |
| lbt | no... I get to do that .... | 20:10 |
| DawnFoster | I think we need to sum it all up, put together the simplest possible guidelines about what is / is not allowed and then let people start using it :) | 20:10 |
| microlith | oh and you may say "this isn't the FSF" but do recall that they freaking quoted Stallman at the LFCS :) | 20:10 |
| lbt | microlith: I'm a member :) | 20:10 |
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| microlith | :D | 20:10 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: yes... and I know what guidelines to put up and some awkward questions to ask now | 20:10 |
| lbt | which we'd better answer before we get serious traction or it'll hurt | 20:11 |
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| Stskeeps | lo yerga | 20:13 |
| yerga | hi Stskeeps :-) | 20:13 |
| yerga | and all | 20:13 |
| CosmoHill | hahah | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | how's it going? | 20:14 |
| CosmoHill | "hello, I'm not a sale person of religious" << always a good way to start a convo | 20:14 |
| CosmoHill | *or | 20:14 |
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| yerga | Stskeeps, fine, ending the summer session but looking ahead to the future ;-) | 20:16 |
| slaine | right, commute time | 20:16 |
| slaine | might be online later | 20:16 |
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| Stskeeps | yerga: 8 months ago i wouldnt have believed we would have a voice call on a open telephony stack on a open maemo like system.. so i classify now as the future ;) | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | .. on a n900 | 20:17 |
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| microlith | is the whole stack open? I was under the impression there was a binary blob in the chain somewhere. | 20:19 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 20:19 |
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| microlith | specifically, it was related to the phonet software. was that resolved? | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | microlith: not to my knowledge. the modem firmware is closed and on another chip though | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | microlith: yeah | 20:20 |
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| microlith | Stskeeps: yeah, most basebands like that are kept well isolated ;) | 20:20 |
| microlith | good to hear | 20:20 |
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| yerga | Stskeeps, definitely! It goes progressing, but the future is always brighter. | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: +1 for mentioning the skeleton in the closet in kernel contribution guidelines.. (SGX) | 20:31 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps - you can thank arjan | 20:31 |
| DawnFoster | I stole his text :) | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, thanks to arjan then | 20:31 |
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| Stskeeps | should save a lot of discussion in the future | 20:32 |
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| ali1234 | so has a ssc-daemon replacement for ofono been commited? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | ofono can power up modem itself yeah | 20:38 |
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| ali1234 | of course you know that the htc hackers beat you to it before the n900 was even released, by a couple of years... right? | 20:40 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: right | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: much respect to the htc hackers | 20:43 |
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| ali1234 | this is where i am up to with u-boot: http://imagebin.org/112164 | 20:50 |
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| CosmoHill | ali1234: cool | 20:55 |
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| Stskeeps | ali1234: good work | 20:56 |
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| ali1234 | hmm... nolo unmaps the onenand before handing control to the kernel | 21:26 |
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| ali1234 | that explains why i can never see it | 21:27 |
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| veli | ali1234: hmm.. You are replacing nolo with u-boot? | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | no, chainloading | 21:39 |
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| veli | Hmm.. Because we have a problem with QEMU images. The N900 version.. as nolo is proprietary. So we would like to replace that in the qemu image. | 21:40 |
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| ali1234 | well you should be able to make use of what i have | 21:41 |
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| ali1234 | but i would guess a lot of stuff that nolo does (eg set up framebuffer) would have to be moved into u-boot | 21:41 |
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| veli | yes... | 21:51 |
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| ali1234 | i got onenand working in qemu :) | 21:55 |
| ali1234 | seems to work on real hw too, it didn't crash anyway | 21:56 |
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| CosmoHill | what the hell, there's an eye lash in my monitor | 22:35 |
| thiago_home | yours? | 22:36 |
| CosmoHill | I hope so | 22:36 |
| CosmoHill | it wasn't there last week | 22:36 |
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| CosmoHill | there's dust in my monitor too from when apple took it apart | 22:40 |
| CosmoHill | yay apple support | 22:41 |
| CosmoHill | I sent it away once, it came back with a different list of faults | 22:42 |
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| thiago_home | did they fix the ones that made you send it for support in the first place? | 22:44 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 22:44 |
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| CosmoHill | basically the FW400 port when up in smoke | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | then they did their work | 22:44 |
| thiago_home | stop complaining :-P | 22:44 |
| CosmoHill | well not smoke but defiantly something burnt | 22:44 |
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| CosmoHill | it's been repaired so many times | 22:45 |
| CosmoHill | I'm meant to complain | 22:45 |
| CosmoHill | GAN900: bitched enough and got a new computer | 22:47 |
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| * CosmoHill shakes fist at netgear | 22:55 | |
| CosmoHill | noo | 22:55 |
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| CosmoHill | for some reason when you answer the phone the broadband drops | 22:57 |
| ali1234 | when you answer or when it rings? | 22:57 |
| ali1234 | latter is very common | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | answer it | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | margin drops when rings, cuts out when answered | 22:57 |
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| ali1234 | it took me a year of complaining to get it fixed | 22:58 |
| CosmoHill | what was it in the end? | 22:58 |
| CosmoHill | I've been disconnected twice without explaination | 22:58 |
| ali1234 | line margins were set way too optimistically | 22:58 |
| CosmoHill | all i know was that it was to do with the exchange | 22:58 |
| CosmoHill | mine is 4dB atm | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | now 2 :/ | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | oh I'm gonna stab this router | 22:59 |
| auke | videotape it | 22:59 |
| thiago_home | or filter may not be very good | 22:59 |
| thiago_home | try replacing it | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, netgear router for £40 | 23:01 |
| CosmoHill | cheap, but shame it's a netgear | 23:01 |
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| thiago_home | is it an ADSL modem too? | 23:02 |
| CosmoHill | actually yes | 23:02 |
| thiago_home | do you have a frequency splitter installed? | 23:03 |
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| CosmoHill | yes | 23:03 |
| lcuk | whats the frequency Cosmo | 23:03 |
| CosmoHill | one for phone / router, one for digibox | 23:03 |
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| thiago_home | that might be defective. See if you can get a different one. | 23:04 |
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| thiago_home | they usually bundle two, or you can get from a friend or something. | 23:04 |
| CosmoHill | oo, 6dB now | 23:04 |
| thiago_home | 6 dB SNR? | 23:04 |
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| CosmoHill | yes | 23:04 |
| CosmoHill | back to 2 | 23:04 |
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| CosmoHill | *4 | 23:04 |
| thiago_home | that doesn't look like a lot | 23:04 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: I long for the day when I see double figures | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | really, try another splitter | 23:05 |
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| ali1234 | i have mmc driver working in u-boot :) | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | if it's not the splitter, then you have bad wiring | 23:05 |
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| thiago_home | or the headend sends noise in the ADSL frequency range, but then there's nothing you can do about that | 23:06 |
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| CosmoHill | ideally I'd like to plug my router into the test port and see how it goes | 23:08 |
| CosmoHill | but we don't have a master socket, we have a connector block | 23:08 |
| CosmoHill | one reason I don't trust maplins is cos I'm looking at their pics of products. same product. two totally different pics | 23:08 |
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| CosmoHill | thanks for the tips guys | 23:11 |
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| ali1234 | check it out: http://imagebin.org/112186 | 23:14 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 23:14 |
| CosmoHill | kudos | 23:15 |
| CosmoHill | could you not use the flash next time? | 23:15 |
| ali1234 | sorry, picture was taken with nokia 5800 | 23:15 |
| CosmoHill | nice finger print btw | 23:15 |
| ali1234 | it's either washed out like that, or too dark to even see anything | 23:16 |
| ali1234 | anyway, if i stick maemo kernel on there, it should be able to boot it, in theory | 23:16 |
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| ali1234 | also note than onenand doesn't work properly, i don't know why | 23:17 |
| ali1234 | size is totally wrong... but sd card size is wrong too (its a 8GB) | 23:17 |
| ali1234 | it didn't error out though, so i have no idea | 23:18 |
| ali1234 | it must have read a correct manufacturer ID | 23:18 |
| ali1234 | or it wouldn't work at all | 23:18 |
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| ali1234 | onenand support may be unecessary anyway | 23:20 |
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| ali1234 | i think it should be possible to just cat zImage >> u-boot.bin and then just jump directly to kernel entry from u-boot | 23:21 |
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| ali1234 | or boot from sd card if some button is held | 23:21 |
| CosmoHill | I like the idea you buy shiny things and then take a soldering iron to them | 23:21 |
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| ali1234 | soldering iron? | 23:22 |
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| ali1234 | i didn't solder anything to my n900 (yet) | 23:22 |
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| CosmoHill | i mean you have a n900 just for dev work | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | who says it's just for dev? | 23:28 |
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| CosmoHill | have you ever used it to make calls? | 23:28 |
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| CosmoHill | my imagination! | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | yes, i use it as my main phone daily | 23:28 |
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| ali1234 | i put my sim into the crappy 5800 when i am hacking | 23:29 |
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| ali1234 | i couldn't use that thing regularly though | 23:29 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 23:42 |
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