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| slavik1 | any Nokia people who can confirm what CPU the N9 will have? | 00:42 |
|---|---|---|
| CosmoHill | nope | 00:42 |
| slavik1 | :( | 00:42 |
| CosmoHill | I'm sure they're not allowed to talk about unreleased products | 00:43 |
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| ScottishDuck | It's apparently an A9 | 00:44 |
| ScottishDuck | I think | 00:44 |
| GAN900 | slavik1, tons, but they're all under NDA. | 00:44 |
| johnx | gonna bet on a faster A8 | 00:44 |
| GAN900 | slavik1, the only official information is from the Maemo Summit last year. | 00:44 |
| slavik1 | GAN900: do you have a link to that? | 00:44 |
| GAN900 | slavik1, which is that Harmattan will support OMAP3. | 00:44 |
| slavik1 | harmattan? | 00:45 |
| GAN900 | (and capacitive and WVGA | 00:45 |
| GAN900 | Maemo 6/MeeGo-Harmattan | 00:45 |
| slavik1 | ahh | 00:45 |
| slavik1 | GAN900: 800x480 is wvga but not full 16:9 ... 854x480 is though, so also wondering if those 54 pixels get added :) | 00:46 |
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| GAN900 | slavik1, 854x480 is also WVGA | 00:46 |
| slavik1 | yes | 00:46 |
| johnx | slavik1, I'd bet against it | 00:46 |
| slavik1 | :( | 00:46 |
| GAN900 | Me too. | 00:46 |
| slavik1 | omap4 with 854x480 is teh win | 00:46 |
| slavik1 | although I'll take 800x480, too | 00:46 |
| GAN900 | But you can measure the aspect ration on the leak. | 00:46 |
| slavik1 | but with omap4 :) | 00:46 |
| GAN900 | But please take your findings to another channel so you don't offend the locals. | 00:47 |
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| GAN900 | OMAP4 wont be sampling in volume until 2011. | 00:47 |
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| slavik1 | really? | 00:47 |
| GAN900 | Really. | 00:47 |
| slavik1 | wouldn't it be like a year at that point that omap4 has been out? | 00:47 |
| slavik1 | I guess I am waiting for N10 or some such? | 00:48 |
| TSCHAKeee | announced. | 00:48 |
| TSCHAKeee | the chips aren't publically available. | 00:48 |
| slavik1 | TSCHAKeee: wouldn't announced mean: we can now build it? | 00:48 |
| slavik1 | oh, I see | 00:48 |
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| johnx | there's a little more lead time in the embedded chip world | 00:49 |
| johnx | it threw me off at first, too | 00:49 |
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| TSCHAKeee | believe me, would love to get my hands on some OMAP4 dev hardware | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | to give my Snapdragon loving friends the finger | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 00:50 |
| slavik1 | TSCHAKeee: blaze is avail with omap 4430, but costs 2k | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | that's typical pricing for dev hardware. | 00:50 |
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| slavik1 | if I had the time and knowledge to write good arm apps, I'd get it | 00:50 |
| slavik1 | 2k is too much for someone who won't do much :( and I don't think it has GSM antennas ... otherwise it would be my new phone ;) | 00:51 |
| johnx | bah. both of those can be overcome | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | does it even have screen :) | 00:51 |
| johnx | knowledge: pick some up | 00:51 |
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| johnx | time: stop sleeping | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | the ARM chips are getting good enough that I can finally start building my Lego home audio/video concept appliances. | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | erm, the OMAP stuff rather. | 00:52 |
| slavik1 | ShadowJK: it has 2 wvga screens and hdmi out | 00:52 |
| slavik1 | they actually showed it showing 3 diff movies on all 3 displays | 00:52 |
| johnx | hot sauce | 00:52 |
| slavik1 | there's a video somewhere | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | video is kinda annoying still, you need good contacts, or beg alot to the right people to get access to the hw video decode accels :( | 00:53 |
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| slavik1 | ShadowJK: it was on the net ... from some trade show | 00:53 |
| slavik1 | imo, nokia needs to make a phone like the droidX / evo 4g (4.3 inch screen, no keyboard) and have a case for a bluetooth keyboard like the lenovo lephone | 00:54 |
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| johnx | slavik1, I think he means access to the software needed to do the kind of hw accelerated video decoding they showed | 00:55 |
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| TSCHAKeee | right now, the ARM world is still riddled with cores with graphics/video acceleration hardware that have drivers buried under miles of NDA. | 00:56 |
| johnx | TSCHAKeee, though at least it's better now than it was 5 years ago | 00:56 |
| johnx | there's progress even though it's aggravatingly slow | 00:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get the Mali DDK so that I could get the necessary drivers to use OpenGL ES on a Telechips 8900 based design (a SmartQ V7) | 00:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | yup | 00:56 |
| GAN900 | johnx, not saying much, though. | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | which kinda sucks if you're just this dude who wants to build lego or a home entertainment system or whatever | 00:57 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: managed to get a DDK? :o | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | but I STILL don't have access to the video coprocessor in the 8900 | 00:57 |
| johnx | GAN900, Intel wasn't friendly to open source even as recently as the mid 2000's IIRC | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | nvidia on desktop is nice | 00:57 |
| johnx | this stuff takes time, but I think most companies will find that they sell more hardware with openness | 00:58 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it's wading through the legal tape | 00:58 |
| GAN900 | Let's hope they do so sooner rather than later. | 00:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | not easy | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | they have a video decode accel api that a) isn't vaporware b) isn't crippled to completely useless already at spec level c) actually works | 00:58 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, As long as you have a recent card on an X86 machine :) | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | yeah :) | 00:58 |
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| johnx | I remember someone convincing me to get a Radeon at some point, because they'd have "finished open source drivers any day now" | 00:59 |
| * TSCHAKeee chuckles | 01:00 | |
| johnx | That was an *original* Radeon | 01:00 |
| johnx | ie, no number after it | 01:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | heheh | 01:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it really is a mess | 01:01 |
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| johnx | I think it's the same problem as trying to port Linux to some embedded hardware *after* the hardware is released | 01:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | and let's not even mention the Atom Z series, with US15 chipset, and the GMA500 core :P | 01:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | gpu rather | 01:01 |
| johnx | which is hilarious, because the SGX in the OMAP3 works *awesomely* on the N900 | 01:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | go directly to EMGD, do not pass GO :P | 01:02 |
| johnx | (really fun to still see PowerVR tech in use, though) | 01:02 |
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| johnx | I was sure that tech was a dead end around 2000 or so | 01:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | we really don't have access to that either, outside the closed nokia bins | 01:03 |
| johnx | same situation as nVidia on the desktop *shrugs* | 01:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | though atleast you can actually download nvidia drivers | 01:04 |
| johnx | I mean, I want to channel money to companies that really *get* open source, but I also need to *use* my stuff | 01:04 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, I think some people are working on that :> | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | you don't need to register user/pass, email right people to beg for access to get driver.. | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | when I saw the headline "Mali 200 open source code released!" | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | I was like, "YAY!!!" | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | then i go grab it and find out it's basically a zero copy routine | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | *FACEPALM* | 01:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | thanks guys, really | 01:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 01:05 |
| slavik1 | btw, meego on arm ... is there anything special when coding for that? | 01:05 |
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| TSCHAKeee | yes. Don't cross the streams. | 01:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | seriously though, that's rather ambiguous. ;) | 01:06 |
| johnx | slavik1, be careful of memory alignment, don't wake up the CPU when idle, and don't leak memory | 01:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | those are all good things on any CPU.. but memory alignment even moreso on ARM | 01:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | that one will slow stuff down like crazy | 01:07 |
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| johnx | and sometimes you'll get away with it on a more recent ARM but make people insane on older ARMs | 01:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | as the CPU tries to compensate for it.. (early ARM CPUs will just refuse to deal with unaligned memory accesses) | 01:08 |
| johnx | (eg, sapwood) | 01:08 |
| johnx | heh, I can see we've run into something similar :) | 01:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah, i've had that problem as recent as with an S3C2440 trying to port Orbiter to it. | 01:10 |
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| TSCHAKeee | thankfully we were able to make it work with changes to our serialize clas | 01:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | s | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | I actually thought kernel was catching the exception and emulating instruction that makes unaligned memory access | 01:11 |
| johnx | a year or so ago, I was trying to get sapwood running on Zaurus (ARMv5te), and it was driving me totally insane. Turns out the ARMv6 and ARMv5te have different memory alignment requirements | 01:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | ShadowJK: depends on the arch/cpu | 01:12 |
| slavik1 | johnx: so, don't be a sucky developer. :P | 01:12 |
| johnx | slavik1, yeah, pretty much | 01:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | and outside of linux, you don't have that option.. the early Acorn Archimedes crashed rather spectacularly with incorrect memory accesses. | 01:13 |
| ShadowJK | heh, I bet echo 0 >/proc/cpu/alignment would quickly reveal broken apps :) | 01:14 |
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| CosmoHill | Firefox is using between 30% and 80% processor load | 02:16 |
| CosmoHill | which is impressive concidering I have no windows open | 02:16 |
| FatalSaint | It just wants to be sure it's ready for you when you browse the interwebz! ;) | 02:16 |
| CosmoHill | firefox: I'M READY WHENEVER YOU ARE!!! | 02:17 |
| CosmoHill | me: Holy crap you've set the desk on fire! | 02:17 |
| FatalSaint | lol | 02:17 |
| CosmoHill | The powerPC G5 was never a fire hazard | 02:17 |
| CosmoHill | >.> | 02:17 |
| CosmoHill | <.< | 02:17 |
| FatalSaint | hah! | 02:18 |
| FatalSaint | It's always nice when software develops new "features".. | 02:18 |
| * CosmoHill lifts up his powerbook | 02:18 | |
| FatalSaint | like turning your desk into firewood | 02:18 |
| CosmoHill | yep, nicely ironed bedding | 02:18 |
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| CosmoHill | When did the Xbox 360 come out? | 02:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | CosmoHill, 2005. | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | The G5 may not have been a fire hazard, but it certainly was an electrocution hazard. :P | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | just thinking about when Apple moved to Intel, and MS used the PowerPC (360) processor | 02:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Microsoft used G5s for development work. | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | my friend's G5 was a water hazzard as the cooler leaked | 02:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mine, too. | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | you got a mac pro from them right? | 02:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Apple replaced mine with a 2x2.26. | 02:32 |
| CosmoHill | I think I'm getting a new G4 soon | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | "new" | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | new to me anyway | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | if it's over 1Ghz I'll be pleased :) | 02:36 |
| ScottishDuck | I always figure that people who got the G5 macs must have been pretty mad | 02:38 |
| ScottishDuck | when Apple switched to intel | 02:38 |
| CosmoHill | I found out recently that the kernels where 32bit by default | 02:39 |
| ScottishDuck | what kernels | 02:39 |
| thiago_home | why? because there was better hardware the next day? | 02:39 |
| thiago_home | doesn't that happen to _everyone_ ? | 02:39 |
| CosmoHill | ScottishDuck: the darwin kernel | 02:39 |
| ScottishDuck | Oh yeah | 02:39 |
| ScottishDuck | I use the 64-bit kernel though | 02:40 |
| CosmoHill | to me it's like buying a super charged car only to find they've removed the super charger belt | 02:40 |
| thiago_home | back in those days, apple used to say that you didn't need 64-bit | 02:41 |
| thiago_home | the userspace was 32-bit | 02:41 |
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| ScottishDuck | Apple say everything sucks | 02:42 |
| thiago_home | there was no advantage in using 64-bit, unless you had huge amounts of data to process | 02:42 |
| ScottishDuck | until it's their next great innovation | 02:42 |
| thiago_home | and they were mostly right on the PowerPC | 02:42 |
| thiago_home | on x86, without 64-bit, you only have half the registers | 02:42 |
| CosmoHill | I read that the 32bit PowerPC G5 was based on a POWER4 processor with 32bit support added to it | 02:43 |
| ScottishDuck | lol | 02:43 |
| CosmoHill | since I got my mac, apple have shifted from building computers to making shiny things for right handed people | 02:44 |
| thiago_home | I don't know what 32-bit PowerPC looks like | 02:45 |
| CosmoHill | looks like? | 02:45 |
| thiago_home | assembly & ABI | 02:45 |
| ScottishDuck | Apple went from making an advert about computing being the platform for big brother, to becoming the big brother in computing | 02:46 |
| thiago_home | actually, now I remember something | 02:46 |
| ScottishDuck | the irony always astounds me | 02:46 |
| thiago_home | my AIX is running on a POWER6 and it does have 32-bit mode | 02:46 |
| thiago_home | I need to check when the machine is back up | 02:46 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.applegeeks.com/lite/index.php?aglitecomic=2010-07-19 | 02:47 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: you have a POWER6 running AIX or your employer does? | 02:48 |
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| thiago_home | Nokia does | 02:49 |
| thiago_home | I just have access to it | 02:49 |
| CosmoHill | ah okay | 02:50 |
| CosmoHill | now I'm not so envious | 02:50 |
| thiago_home | I'd never buy one of those for me | 02:51 |
| thiago_home | entry-level is $12k | 02:51 |
| thiago_home | POWER6 1GB of RAM with AIX 5.3 | 02:51 |
| CosmoHill | there is a reason I don't own any new computers | 02:51 |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster | 02:57 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:20 |
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| CosmoHill | Morning | 12:36 |
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| miticofioz | hi, i want to start to develop my ivi system on meego. i saw on the website that there are 2 sdk images (netbook and handset) but i can't find the ivi image.. can I use one of the two images or do I have to wait until the sdk | 16:57 |
| miticofioz | for ivi system is released? | 16:57 |
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| miticofioz | can somebody answer please? :) | 17:00 |
| miticofioz | .... | 17:01 |
| dm8tbr | can you be more patient please? | 17:01 |
| miticofioz | anybody alive? | 17:01 |
| miticofioz | ok sorry | 17:01 |
| dm8tbr | irc is not real-time. althought many people believe that | 17:01 |
| dm8tbr | if someone knows something relating to your question they may answer. that can be right now or in 3h. YMMV | 17:02 |
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| miticofioz | ok, thanks | 17:03 |
| Venemo | miticofioz: I dunno a think about it, but the MeeGo wiki may be a good place to start | 17:04 |
| Venemo | miticofioz: I dunno a thing about it, but the MeeGo wiki may be a good place to start | 17:04 |
| thiago_home | there are no ivi images yet, I think | 17:04 |
| thiago_home | use mic | 17:04 |
| miticofioz | mic? | 17:04 |
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| thiago_home | meego image creator | 17:05 |
| thiago_home | i.e., create your own image | 17:05 |
| miticofioz | ah ok! | 17:05 |
| miticofioz | i will read the wiki better | 17:05 |
| miticofioz | i don't want to bother you more... | 17:06 |
| miticofioz | :) | 17:06 |
| miticofioz | i just wanted to know if a ready-to-go ivi image was available or not | 17:06 |
| miticofioz | thanks guys! | 17:06 |
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| th0br0 | the "ivi" system? | 17:11 |
| th0br0 | what's ivi? | 17:11 |
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| th0br0 | ah in vehicle | 17:12 |
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| th0br0 | miticofioz: http://meego.com/devices/in-vehicle? | 17:12 |
| th0br0 | miticofioz: http://meego.com/devices/in-vehicle ? | 17:12 |
| CosmoHill | both links work | 17:12 |
| Venemo | yeah :D | 17:13 |
| th0br0 | true. | 17:13 |
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| miticofioz | th0br0: hey sorry for the delay.. i know.. links are perfectly working. The ivi image is now running (under vmware fusion) on my mac. But i was referring to the SDK image.. If you go here: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux there are 2 images.. one for netbooks and one for handset devices. There is no SDK image for IVI systems. So basically I think i will install qt4 directly on the ivi liv | 17:30 |
| miticofioz | image of meego and i will develop directly on my ivi device... Best way I think.. | 17:30 |
| thiago_home | it's the same image | 17:31 |
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| th0br0 | i thought so too, thiago_home | 17:32 |
| miticofioz | nope man.. | 17:32 |
| miticofioz | dimensions are different | 17:32 |
| miticofioz | not the same image.. | 17:32 |
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| miticofioz | i know it's a stupid comparison but... | 17:32 |
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| thiago_home | install the development packages inside the image | 17:35 |
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| miticofioz | ah very cool! | 17:35 |
| miticofioz | so there is a development package! | 17:35 |
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| miticofioz | i search on the wiki now.. | 17:35 |
| miticofioz | thanks | 17:36 |
| miticofioz | :) | 17:36 |
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| miticofioz | ouch.. | 17:44 |
| miticofioz | can't find how to install the devel package of meego... | 17:44 |
| thiago_home | there's not one single package | 17:45 |
| thiago_home | install the packages of what you want to develop with | 17:45 |
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| th0br0 | is there any reason for just making AppUp available for Atom systems? I mean... I don't get the sense behind that. If it were merely for meego, sure but... atom in general regardless of whether they're running windows or meego ? | 17:47 |
| miticofioz | ok.. if I understand.. qt4.7 and libmeegotouch should be ok for starting right? | 17:47 |
| thiago_home | is there any company paying Intel to host AppUp for their devices? | 17:48 |
| thiago_home | miticofioz: yes | 17:48 |
| th0br0 | thiago_home: you mean nokia? | 17:48 |
| miticofioz | cool | 17:48 |
| miticofioz | thanks thiago_home | 17:48 |
| thiago_home | th0br0: no, I don't mean Nokia | 17:48 |
| miticofioz | :) | 17:48 |
| thiago_home | th0br0: Nokia doesn't use or care about AppUp | 17:48 |
| th0br0 | but microsoft does? | 17:48 |
| th0br0 | or whom are you referring to here? | 17:48 |
| thiago_home | no one | 17:48 |
| thiago_home | that's the point | 17:48 |
| thiago_home | if no one is paying Intel to host it for them, Intel hosts for whatever they want to | 17:49 |
| miticofioz | err.. last question guys.. Is the source code of the ivi UI available somewhere? | 17:49 |
| th0br0 | true. still, what i don't see is why they're limiting it just to atom devices then, after all, where's the big difference to modern non-atom cpus? (other than cpu power, the instruction sets should be the same, right?) | 17:49 |
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| miticofioz | th0br0: yes, basic instructions set is the same. | 17:50 |
| lcuk | hey meegoers \o | 17:51 |
| CosmoHill | hey lcuk | 17:51 |
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| th0br0 | heya lcuk | 17:51 |
| lcuk | so whats going down in groove town today then? | 17:52 |
| th0br0 | groovy is bad. | 17:52 |
| th0br0 | :) | 17:52 |
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| lcuk | th0br0, but without groovy your sunday lunch will be all dry | 17:55 |
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| th0br0 | ;) | 17:56 |
| th0br0 | i was talking about the "programming language" here | 17:56 |
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| thiago_home | th0br0: Atom and non-Atom are quite different | 17:57 |
| thiago_home | the point isn't "hosting apps" | 17:57 |
| thiago_home | the point is "pushing Atom" | 17:57 |
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| th0br0 | mh. | 17:57 |
| ali1234 | what is AppUp anyway? | 17:57 |
| th0br0 | ali1234: some appstore for atom-based platforms | 17:57 |
| th0br0 | thiago_home: enlighten me? | 17:57 |
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| thiago_home | Intel wants to sell chips | 17:58 |
| thiago_home | the Core line is doing pretty good, on desktop, laptop and server markets | 17:58 |
| thiago_home | they want Atom to sell more, competing with ARM | 17:58 |
| th0br0 | yeah i know th | 17:58 |
| th0br0 | *that | 17:58 |
| th0br0 | but in how far are they different (atom and non-atom) | 17:58 |
| thiago_home | on one hand, they accept helping ARM a bit (with MeeGo) | 17:58 |
| thiago_home | but the whole point of AppUp is to deliver Atom-optimised applications | 17:59 |
| thiago_home | will they run on non-Atom? Sure. But they're optimised for Atom. | 17:59 |
| ali1234 | it's down anyway | 17:59 |
| miticofioz | hey guys i am going deeper into the development of my ivi system.. thanks for the info u gave me!! :) | 17:59 |
| miticofioz | by | 17:59 |
| miticofioz | we | 17:59 |
| miticofioz | bye | 17:59 |
| ali1234 | so anyone can put an App on AppUp for any platform, as long as they compile it with -mtune=atom? | 17:59 |
| thiago_home | I don't know | 18:00 |
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| th0br0 | that's what i'm wondering about, too, ali1234 | 18:00 |
| th0br0 | especially as it's for win7 and meego apps which ... don't really go along? :) | 18:00 |
| ali1234 | well i can't load the page, just get some apache error | 18:01 |
| ali1234 | but that does seem a bit random | 18:01 |
| th0br0 | i get that error too | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | plus how are they even going to test that? | 18:02 |
| th0br0 | seems like the container is down | 18:02 |
| th0br0 | test what? | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | test that the apps only run on atom | 18:02 |
| th0br0 | it was introduced in january 2010 i think | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | or test that they are optimized for atom | 18:02 |
| th0br0 | no idea :D | 18:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | Btw, I read a lot about android devs complaining about fragmentation of versions and apis and quirks added by manufacturers that make developing for android a bit of a pain apparently. Does meego have some strict guidelines and plans in place to prevent a similar thing from happening to the platform once it's out? | 18:32 |
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| slonopotamus | i doubt | 18:32 |
| CosmoHill | wasn't there something about compliance in last week's meeting? | 18:33 |
| slonopotamus | Shapeshifter, from what i see on irc, meego devs very easily patch stuff | 18:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | so it's probably going to be a mess? then again, thinking how meego will probably be a bit more linuxy, you could simply require the versions you need of a lib (except qt stuff) and be okay. At least developing for linux, I rarely have too many problems. | 18:34 |
| thiago_home | we're very much struggling to solve that problem in our side | 18:35 |
| thiago_home | we can't beat the competition if we aren't better than they are | 18:36 |
| thiago_home | Qt's API is one and only | 18:36 |
| thiago_home | you can't change it | 18:36 |
| Shapeshifter | that is good | 18:37 |
| thiago_home | the one thing I'm afraid of is differences in backend implementations | 18:37 |
| thiago_home | some features are present, some work differently, etc. | 18:37 |
| Shapeshifter | thiago_home: you mean like for example how access to a camera would be presented by "the backend"? what backend exactly? | 18:38 |
| thiago_home | fortunately, inside MeeGo, the backends would be the same | 18:38 |
| thiago_home | the difference would be between MeeGo and, say, Symbian | 18:38 |
| Shapeshifter | ah. | 18:39 |
| kraiskil | No camera API in Qt? | 18:39 |
| thiago_home | yes, in QtMultimedia, coming in Mobility 1.1 | 18:39 |
| kraiskil | oh. cool :) | 18:40 |
| Shapeshifter | so for example, any manufacturer who wants to run meego will need to write the interfacing components to the hardware so that the mobility api will work with the hardware? | 18:40 |
| th0br0 | no | 18:40 |
| th0br0 | to interface with qt | 18:41 |
| th0br0 | ;) | 18:41 |
| thiago_home | actually, not so much | 18:42 |
| thiago_home | most of the interfaces are done already at the kernel level | 18:42 |
| thiago_home | so they need to write kernel drivers | 18:42 |
| CosmoHill | that reminds me, I need to install Qt again | 18:42 |
| th0br0 | yeah | 18:42 |
| Shapeshifter | thiago_home: interesting. | 18:42 |
| th0br0 | you should enforce open source drivers though :=) | 18:43 |
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| thiago_home | we do, up to an extent | 18:44 |
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| thiago_home | we can't forbid someone from shipping their own, modified MeeGo | 18:44 |
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| thiago_home | depending on how different it is, it may not be able to get the MeeGo brand, though | 18:44 |
| th0br0 | true | 18:45 |
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| GAN900 | They're not interested in that | 18:45 |
| thiago_home | also, the licenses enforce some opensourceness too | 18:45 |
| GAN900 | Costs too much money to enforce those ideals in a strict way. | 18:46 |
| thiago_home | kernel developers seem to tolerate binary drivers to an extent | 18:46 |
| TermanaN900 | GAN900, not interested in what? | 18:46 |
| thiago_home | binary patches to Qt are impossible, though | 18:46 |
| TermanaN900 | getting approval to use the brand? | 18:46 |
| GAN900 | TermanaN900, hardcore pushing of opensource ideals to people using MeeGo. | 18:46 |
| GAN900 | (OEMs) | 18:46 |
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| TermanaN900 | GAN900, oh right. I thought you were talking about oems getting brand approval. Which, if the brand is strong, OEMs will want to do | 18:47 |
| th0br0 | eventually, will there be any non-nokia oem in the smartphone market anyway? | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: acer seems to be involving itself more and more | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | (at least) | 18:54 |
| th0br0 | ah ok. haven't heard about that yet | 18:54 |
| th0br0 | but didn't they do some android phone too? | 18:54 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, There's a Qt Cert done at VUE test centres | 18:55 |
| GAN900 | th0br0, hedging seems appropriate at this point. | 18:55 |
| th0br0 | mh | 18:55 |
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| th0br0 | well, based upon what i've heard about google + their business model regarding the oha i'd do that too | 18:56 |
| Shapeshifter | hedging? | 18:57 |
| th0br0 | gaining some security? | 18:57 |
| GAN900 | Shapeshifter, i.e., not getting behind a single platform. | 18:57 |
| th0br0 | alternative options ;) | 18:57 |
| GAN900 | Shapeshifter, if MeeGo goes bust, they has experience with Android, etc. | 18:58 |
| GAN900 | s/has/have | 18:58 |
| * thiago_home knocks on wood | 18:59 | |
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| VLJ | hi | 19:00 |
| VLJ | does the newly released emgd drivers work with meego or ... ? | 19:00 |
| * CosmoHill chokes when he sees the Qt Dev cert price | 19:01 | |
| thiago_home | 199 € ? | 19:01 |
| CosmoHill | 150€ | 19:01 |
| CosmoHill | i think I can get a student discount tho | 19:01 |
| th0br0 | that's pretty cheap | 19:03 |
| GAN900 | Depends on perspective. | 19:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | GAN900: I see | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | CosmoHill: considering added job possibilities it might be worth it | 19:05 |
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| CosmoHill | I suppose it's kinda cheap if you concider it's a one off (assume I pass first time) and would make getting a job easier | 19:05 |
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| CosmoHill | also I don't think I'd feel nervous taking the exam since I know where the test centre is and I can probably take boo with me | 19:06 |
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| * CosmoHill watches qmake and mds go nuts and make his mac overheat | 19:11 | |
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| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/qt-on-mac-leopard.png :) | 19:20 |
| th0br0 | CosmoHill: "boo"? | 19:21 |
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| CosmoHill | th0br0: http://cosmo1847.co.uk/blog/pics/boo.jpg | 19:21 |
| CosmoHill | I've taken him to all my uni exams | 19:22 |
| th0br0 | lol | 19:22 |
| th0br0 | ah k | 19:23 |
| Aard | CosmoHill: regular contribution to opensource projects using qt should be able to save you the money for that thing. and you make some other people happy as well. | 19:23 |
| th0br0 | yeah | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | true too | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | think about it: we've never hired a Qt Certified engineer to work on Qt | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | is that because they go "I'm a Qt cert dev" and you go "oh yeah? explain this ...." | 19:24 |
| thiago_home | no, it's because no one has ever applied | 19:25 |
| thiago_home | the certification is a new thing... | 19:25 |
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| * Aard has successfully managed to not do any certifications any employer wanted me to do over the last 10 years | 19:25 | |
| Aard | certificates usually don't prove that you can handle the task involving what you're being certified in. it just proves you can learn for an exam that usually does not cover that much real-life stuff | 19:26 |
| CosmoHill | oo, QList() is a template function | 19:26 |
| th0br0 | which certifications were those? | 19:26 |
| CosmoHill | / class | 19:26 |
| Aard | th0br0: mainly different stuff from redhat, sun and ibm | 19:27 |
| th0br0 | mh ok | 19:27 |
| Aard | especially redhats linux certifications are completely useless | 19:28 |
| CosmoHill | I go back to uni in 3 weeks :/ | 19:28 |
| th0br0 | i have to go to the toscana from mo to fr | 19:29 |
| th0br0 | really aard? | 19:29 |
| * thiago_home doesn't have any certification either | 19:29 | |
| thiago_home | I'm not even a computer scientist or computer engineer | 19:29 |
| th0br0 | do you have any degree? | 19:30 |
| thiago_home | yes | 19:30 |
| thiago_home | four | 19:30 |
| th0br0 | in what? | 19:30 |
| Aard | oh, and the other thing was vmware esx stuff. probably the most useless certification I've ever seen | 19:30 |
| CosmoHill | now thats just greedy | 19:30 |
| thiago_home | a double degree in Engineering (electrical) and a double MBA | 19:30 |
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| CosmoHill | Aard: ESX is painful | 19:30 |
| th0br0 | haha nice thiago_home | 19:30 |
| th0br0 | why did you do that? | 19:31 |
| Aard | CosmoHill: the product or the certification? | 19:31 |
| CosmoHill | product | 19:31 |
| CosmoHill | as a result I have a quad core say next to me desk unplugged | 19:31 |
| * thiago_home has an hex-core that he needs to find use for | 19:31 | |
| CosmoHill | folding@home | 19:32 |
| Aard | we had some larger esx-environment at a former employer. certification is mainly learning what's in the datasheet, no use for managing that thing at all | 19:32 |
| CosmoHill | you could probably do LFS on that in 2 or 3 hours | 19:32 |
| th0br0 | heh, hex-cores... those malfunctioning octacores :D | 19:33 |
| CosmoHill | I have a baby cisco cert somewhere | 19:33 |
| thiago_home | th0br0: I'm pretty sure that Xeons aren't malfunctionining | 19:33 |
| CosmoHill | basically useless but gives me a discount on my next cisco exam | 19:33 |
| th0br0 | mh | 19:33 |
| th0br0 | true | 19:33 |
| thiago_home | th0br0: and AFAIK there aren't any real octocores in the market yet | 19:33 |
| thiago_home | th0br0: my i7 is a dual-threaded quad-core | 19:33 |
| CosmoHill | I wonder if they will make a 5 core processor via die havesting | 19:34 |
| th0br0 | but weren't / aren't hexacores some mix of malfunctioning (production / dice) quad-cores? | 19:34 |
| th0br0 | die harvesting, that's it i guess | 19:34 |
| CosmoHill | th0br0: you're thinking of dual and tri core AMDs | 19:34 |
| th0br0 | oh idk. | 19:34 |
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| thiago_home | th0br0: this is not a dual-processor system | 19:34 |
| thiago_home | th0br0: it's one processor with six cores, each running two threads | 19:34 |
| th0br0 | k | 19:35 |
| CosmoHill | that reminds me, I need to scrap my dual processor system | 19:35 |
| CosmoHill | when I say dual processor I mean single 650Mhz processor, and that is why it's getting scrapped | 19:35 |
| Aard | CosmoHill: you could start a collection, I could contribute one dual p2 350, and a bunch of ppro-systems | 19:36 |
| * thiago_home wonders what happened to his old 80386 | 19:37 | |
| dm8tbr | hey, my router is an dual P3-550 right now ;) | 19:37 |
| CosmoHill | glibc removed support for it, that's what happened | 19:37 |
| Aard | dm8tbr: allright, I'll dump that stuff at your apartment :p | 19:37 |
| dm8tbr | waaaah! | 19:38 |
| CosmoHill | my server is a single 850Mhz P3 | 19:38 |
| * Aard got rid of over 20 x86 boxes for the last move, and still got a bunch I didn't have time to take care of back then | 19:38 | |
| CosmoHill | if I could I'd replace it with an AMD Athlon 64 2.2Ghz that I have at uni | 19:38 |
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| thiago_home | we disposed of a couple of old IRIX machines last year | 19:38 |
| th0br0 | 20 x86 boxes o.OP | 19:39 |
| * CosmoHill hopes thiago_home doesn't list anything he would have liked | 19:39 | |
| thiago_home | which in turn had been acquired when the university was disposing of them... | 19:39 |
| Aard | thiago_home: damn, I'd have taken some of those in. I'm collecting interesting non-x86 stuff | 19:39 |
| th0br0 | just think of the fortune you could accumulate if all of you collected the stuff and sold it as scrap metal :D | 19:39 |
| thiago_home | Aard: my N900 is more powerful than those | 19:39 |
| CosmoHill | Aard: imagine if you opened a muscle or something | 19:39 |
| dm8tbr | emulate them on the n900 then :) | 19:39 |
| thiago_home | we don't support IRIX anymore | 19:40 |
| thiago_home | we do support MIPS though | 19:40 |
| CosmoHill | "and here we have the blah de blah, blah blah running blah OS version 7.2" | 19:40 |
| Aard | th0br0: the scrap metal dealers picked them up before the towns service for that stuff arrived... | 19:40 |
| th0br0 | heh | 19:40 |
| Aard | thiago_home: it's not about performance, it's about interesting hardware | 19:40 |
| thiago_home | Aard: I prefer small MIPS HW than big MIPS HW | 19:40 |
| thiago_home | Aard: one of them was as big as a small fridge | 19:41 |
| * CosmoHill is after non x86 machines or something => a C2D | 19:41 | |
| th0br0 | :P CosmoHill | 19:41 |
| Aard | thiago_home: looks nice in your living room | 19:42 |
| Aard | a friend of mine has built a shelf out of old sgi workstations | 19:42 |
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| CosmoHill | "I'll get a beer from the fridge, dude wtf, there's a load of circet boards in here" | 19:42 |
| thiago_home | Aard: as much as heating devices are important in Norway, I think I'm good :-) | 19:42 |
| th0br0 | circet? circuit? | 19:42 |
| CosmoHill | that too | 19:42 |
| th0br0 | what's a circet board tehn? | 19:43 |
| CosmoHill | a typo | 19:43 |
| th0br0 | ok | 19:43 |
| th0br0 | :) | 19:43 |
| thiago_home | could be related to a circus | 19:43 |
| th0br0 | yeah | 19:45 |
| CosmoHill | that's an even weirder thing to have in your fridge | 19:46 |
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| Bostik | circus in a fridge sounds like something out of Ghostbusters | 19:52 |
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| CosmoHill | random question: has anyone here soldered a motherboard? | 20:12 |
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| kyb3R | CosmoHill: you might get answers at #hackerspaces | 20:14 |
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| thiago_home | not a modern mothermoard | 20:27 |
| thiago_home | I have soldered before on old stuff, in class | 20:28 |
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| CosmoHill | I have a laptop scattered around my room waiting for a new power connect to arrive in the post | 20:29 |
| Aard | CosmoHill: what exactly? | 20:29 |
| * Aard had his fair share of capacitor replacements | 20:30 | |
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| CosmoHill | the PCB connector that the power adapter plugs into has snapped | 20:31 |
| Aard | should be an easy one | 20:31 |
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| CosmoHill | it should be | 20:31 |
| CosmoHill | but it's my first, and that's what makes me nervous | 20:31 |
| Aard | it's broken now, so you can only win ;) | 20:32 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 20:33 |
| Aard | you know which side of the soldering iron gets hot? | 20:34 |
| CosmoHill | the pointy end | 20:34 |
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| Aard | good, so the most painful mistake is already sorted out :) | 20:35 |
| slonopotamus | haha :) | 20:35 |
| CosmoHill | are you thinking about that american dad episode...? | 20:36 |
| Aard | don't remember one that involves soldering | 20:36 |
| CosmoHill | he stabs it through a thin bit of wood | 20:37 |
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| Aard | I vaguely remember that scene, but that wasn't soldering | 20:38 |
| CosmoHill | wood charing | 20:39 |
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| VLJ | vgrade: hi | 21:02 |
| VLJ | did you get new emgd release on your joggler ? | 21:03 |
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| dziq | hello there | 21:40 |
| CosmoHill | hello from here | 21:41 |
| dziq | is there any additional repositories for meego | 21:41 |
| CosmoHill | like rpm forge? | 21:41 |
| dziq | i'm looking for mc and rdiff-backup | 21:41 |
| dziq | CosmoHill: yep | 21:41 |
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| dziq | so do you have other repos? | 21:43 |
| CosmoHill | I don''t think there are | 21:43 |
| CosmoHill | I'm assuming the comminity repo is included with meego by default | 21:44 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: did anyone ever try to boot N900 with x-loader and u-boot on SD card? | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: no, but nolo can load u-boot it seems like | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | at least qemu-n900 does that | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | (from NAND) | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | according to my research the n900 SYS_BOOT is wired such that it checks SD card before OneNAND | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | all you need to do is put MLO and u-boot.bin on a fat formatted SD card | 21:47 |
| ali1234 | i'm trying it right now in fact | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | except the signed x-loader it's looking for would be nolo, wouldn't it? | 21:48 |
| ali1234 | i don't know | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | keep in mind there's OMAP HS | 21:48 |
| ali1234 | as i understand it x-loader happens before any of that stuff | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's more worthwhile to try and see what you can do with the fact NOLO can load u-boot from nand | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | can be checked with the qemu n900 | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | the qemu n900 doesn't even have an x-loader... | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | i looked inside the image, it goes directly to NOLO | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, my point | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | nolo -> uboot as zimage | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | that's possible, it seems like | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 21:51 |
| ali1234 | well it won't take me long to try from SD card | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, give it a shot | 21:52 |
| ali1234 | and it's less likely to destroy the whole device | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | how will you know it works? :P | 21:52 |
| ali1234 | if it doesn't boot up to maemo, it worked :) | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | point | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=5934&postcount=2 <- what i'm hinting at | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | the .bin in use is a u-boot.bin | 21:52 |
| dziq | so,anybody has mc installed? | 21:53 |
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| ali1234 | yes, and i saw someone else booted a maemo image with qflasher, but they had to swap out the bootloaders because of security | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | right | 21:54 |
| ali1234 | so i am guessing all that nasty stuff in is NOLO, not in the OMAP chip itself | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | it's in omap | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | my point being that nolo will load u-boot.bin if it's presented to it as the kernel | 21:54 |
| ali1234 | yeah, but i think it's the nokia x-loader which checks NOLO signature | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | can't recall | 21:55 |
| ali1234 | MLO<=>x-loader, u-boot<=>NOLO | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | it goes x-loader -> nolo, true | 21:55 |
| ali1234 | http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project is what I am going to try | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | if your sd card doesn't work, i wouldn't mind seeing some nolo->uboot.bin tricks | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | what i was hoping for would be a multiboot like menu | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | that loads from a mmc instead or whatever | 21:56 |
| ali1234 | yes | 21:56 |
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| Stskeeps | then again, straight to sd boot would be cool | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:57 |
| CosmoHill | dziq: i think you might need to compile it yourself | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | but i think it would be great if you could just put in the SD card for the OS you want to use (or none for regular maemo) - without having to flash anything | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | yes, agreed | 21:57 |
| CosmoHill | ali1234: like a computer loads a boot cd, if it's non boot it loads from hard drive? | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | CosmoHill: yes, exactly like that | 21:58 |
| ali1234 | it's all described on the omap34xx TRM page 3378 (N900 is 34xx right?) | 21:59 |
| ali1234 | CosmoHill: just like a PC bios, you can configure the order that devices are checked, but unlike a PC, you do it by soldering resistors on the board | 22:00 |
| ali1234 | well i checked the config, and it looks good to go | 22:00 |
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| ali1234 | well first try failed, but my card isn't partitioned right | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | sounds like my first linux build on a mac | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | "what do you mean they don't use a MBR?" | 22:21 |
| ali1234 | now my stupid sd card reader isn't working properly | 22:22 |
| ali1234 | and it's corrupted the card | 22:23 |
| ali1234 | great | 22:23 |
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| ali1234 | well this is new, there's actually something very wrong with USB on my computer | 22:28 |
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| ali1234 | time to reboot i guess | 22:28 |
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| * CosmoHill plays with Qt | 22:34 | |
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| ali1234 | i rebooted my computer and it didn't come back up :( | 22:36 |
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| pavlix | is it possible to create a subwindow in clutter? | 22:41 |
| pavlix | probably the wrong tab, sorry :) | 22:43 |
| messerting | Hi folks, I'm trying to port Witter to a KDE plasmoid | 22:45 |
| messerting | anyone knows some good docs on how to start? | 22:46 |
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| messerting | though I'd try to rip out the hildon stuff, and replace it by some basic Qt stuff, right? | 22:46 |
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| messerting | Witter is written in python, so I guess I should replace "self.program = hildon.Program()" by something that will run in KDE4 | 22:47 |
| messerting | May I add that I find Witter the absolutely best Twitter client available, far better than the KDE Microblogging plasmoid | 22:50 |
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| CosmoHill | hey messerting | 22:52 |
| messerting | CosmoHill: Hi | 22:52 |
| CosmoHill | I'm just starting to learn Qt atm | 22:52 |
| CosmoHill | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.2 | 22:53 |
| messerting | Well, me too :) | 22:53 |
| CosmoHill | this is what I'm using | 22:53 |
| thiago_home | not 4.2 | 22:53 |
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| messerting | 4.5 then | 22:53 |
| ali1234 | messerting: http://developers-blog.org/blog/default/2009/06/01/Python-Plasmoid-Example | 22:53 |
| messerting | ali1234: thanks - I've made a hello world plasmoid already! :) | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | so now you need to recode all the widgets used by witter to use Qt widgets instead | 22:54 |
| thiago_home | how about 4.7 | 22:54 |
| messerting | But when I look at the source of Witter, I see there are quite some places I need to change... | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | yeah, probably most of the code will need rewriting | 22:55 |
| thiago_home | messerting: you probably need to write everything except the twitter API | 22:55 |
| messerting | well, the UI already has a Qt version | 22:56 |
| messerting | but, I need to change it to be a plasmoid I guess... | 22:56 |
| messerting | don't think I really have the skills, or the time to get the skills | 22:56 |
| messerting | Maybe I'll just donate some money to the Witter author :) | 22:57 |
| messerting | Think he is actually getting married these days. Cheers to that! | 22:59 |
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| messerting | Hm, nope, I'm not up for the challenge. Take care :) | 23:16 |
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| * CosmoHill is getting caught out by pointers | 23:20 | |
| CosmoHill | yay, progress | 23:24 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: i'm reading the docs for x-loader, it includes a signing utility | 23:25 |
| ali1234 | still can't get it to work though | 23:25 |
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| mark1 | hello everybody! I am experiencing problems with the ethernet connection in meego ivi.. i need the connection to download some packages to activate the wifi connection but ethernet is not working.. when i attach the cable the leds blink but i see no interfaces by typing ifconfig from the terminal.. and also in the network connection manager everything is blank.. can somebody help me to troubleshoot? | 23:38 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, how big is your cluster now? | 23:43 |
| lcuk | or has it reached a steady state at the moment | 23:43 |
| CosmoHill | 1 and a half :) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | heh | 23:43 |
| mark1 | i only see the loopback interface and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts is empty | 23:43 |
| CosmoHill | I couldn't be bothered to wait an hour for the last 0.5 to install | 23:43 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, eep | 23:43 |
| mark1 | ifconfig eth0 up : no such device.. | 23:43 |
| mark1 | arghhh getting mad.. | 23:44 |
| lcuk | look around, how many powered up wifi programmable devices do you have? | 23:44 |
| mark1 | :( | 23:44 |
| CosmoHill | so once that's done I should have two nodes that are Windows 2008 HPC and Rocks Cluster | 23:44 |
| mark1 | last thing: lspci sees the ethernet controller | 23:44 |
| CosmoHill | slider-qt.cpp:39: error: ‘tr’ was not declared in this scope | 23:45 |
| CosmoHill | damn >.< | 23:45 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: actually I'm playing around making an interface for the nodes | 23:45 |
| lcuk | cool | 23:45 |
| CosmoHill | (so it's now two things I have no idea what I'm doing :) ) | 23:46 |
| mark1 | ... | 23:48 |
| lcuk | lol CosmoHill what do you need your cluster for? | 23:49 |
| CosmoHill | windows and linux AD intergration and the ability to dual boot the nodes remotely | 23:49 |
| CosmoHill | basically something hard enough to get me a 1st ^.^ | 23:50 |
| lcuk | haha yeah, linux and windows integration is a bit tough | 23:50 |
| CosmoHill | I've been at it for about 2 months | 23:50 |
| CosmoHill | only this week did I get the fu...things to install | 23:50 |
| lcuk | yeah | 23:50 |
| CosmoHill | I document pretty much everything I do | 23:51 |
| CosmoHill | but I don't like stopping when I'm on a roll to write stuff down | 23:51 |
| lcuk | thats the same in many fields | 23:51 |
| lcuk | thankfully nowadays we leave digital crumbs | 23:51 |
| lcuk | and can use lots of sources to rebuild events | 23:52 |
| CosmoHill | I spent some hours at home on my desktop and ended up with 4 pages telling you how to configure ubuntu server as a dhcp server with PXE boot | 23:52 |
| CosmoHill | and how to set up grub2 and a boot loader via PXE | 23:53 |
| *** Vanadis has quit IRC | 23:53 | |
| lcuk | cool | 23:53 |
| CosmoHill | I.E. the remote node PXE boots grub2 and that tells it what to chainload | 23:53 |
| CosmoHill | I also used it with memtest | 23:54 |
| CosmoHill | so in theory it could be extended / intergrated with Rocks to (re)install nodes | 23:54 |
| CosmoHill | I currently face two (short term) problems | 23:57 |
| CosmoHill | the first is that I go back in 3 weeks and I wanna chill out | 23:58 |
| CosmoHill | the second is that it needs to be moved somewhere else | 23:58 |
| CosmoHill | anyone care to help me with a spot of Qt? | 23:59 |
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