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| GAN900 | Platform fragmentation is so much fun. | 00:04 |
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| thiago | lcuk: the UIs are being designed for 800x480 on handsets | 00:09 |
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| thiago | I have no idea what the other segments use | 00:09 |
| thiago | netbooks seem to do fine on 1024x600 | 00:09 |
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| lcuk | thiago, what about 800*480 or even future above sized? arent apps for handheld meant to work on netbook etc? qt deploy anywhere? | 00:14 |
| thiago | Qt doesn't stop developers from doing stupid things | 00:14 |
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| thiago | I'm not saying they are doing stupid things, though. But I also don't know if anyone has ever tested outside 800x480 or similar resolutions. | 00:15 |
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| threezero | deploy anywhere doesn't mean that you should deploy everywhere | 00:15 |
| threezero | without proper modifications | 00:15 |
| lcuk | threezero, but artificially not making use of standard qt features | 00:15 |
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| lcuk | desktop qt apps are usually written to handle a grab bar | 00:15 |
| lcuk | dynamic resizing? | 00:16 |
| lcuk | errr desktop apps | 00:16 |
| thiago | desktop Widget-based apps use layouts, yes | 00:16 |
| thiago | handset apps are using libmeegotouch | 00:16 |
| thiago | the layout system there is different | 00:16 |
| threezero | libmeegotouch apps have a defined screen size | 00:17 |
| w00t_ | I think libmt's window size is actually hardcoded too (at least right now) | 00:17 |
| w00t_ | I haven't looked at that for a long while though so I may be wrong | 00:17 |
| threezero | w00t_, it's configurable by the theme iirc | 00:17 |
| lcuk | what about using same apps on symbian qt deployments? | 00:18 |
| lcuk | they have lower resolution screens dont they? | 00:18 |
| lcuk | ie n97 etc | 00:18 |
| threezero | depends, does symbian have libmt? | 00:18 |
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| lcuk | it has qt | 00:18 |
| lcuk | so i keep hearing | 00:18 |
| w00t_ | symbian is a bit of a special case | 00:18 |
| w00t_ | i.e. it usually requires (a lot of) workarounds for libraries and stuff to work, and work well on there | 00:19 |
| w00t_ | I don't know if anyone has done that to libmt yet | 00:19 |
| lcuk | thats in the qt framework though? | 00:19 |
| w00t_ | yes, but it isn't just a case of "do it here and it's done" | 00:19 |
| thiago | libmeegotouch won't run on Symbian | 00:19 |
| w00t_ | (an author can write one book, but that doesn't make it a trilogy) | 00:19 |
| thiago | so to make cross-platform apps, you mustn't use libmeegotouch | 00:19 |
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| w00t_ | thiago: I don't think there's any real technical barrier to that though, apart from "hasn't been done", no? | 00:20 |
| threezero | if you want to make a good cross-platform app, you'll keep the core logic separate from the UI | 00:20 |
| thiago | w00t_: well, the use of contextkit is one | 00:20 |
| thiago | the use of autotools to build is another | 00:20 |
| lcuk | is gravity written in qt? | 00:20 |
| w00t_ | it doesn't use autotools | 00:20 |
| w00t_ | it uses qmake with a configure script to set up some bits and pieces | 00:20 |
| mikhas | threezero, that does not scale if your app is mostly UI | 00:21 |
| threezero | then do a UI in libmt, and one for symbian using whatever it uses, and one in vanilla qt for netbook | 00:21 |
| mikhas | yeah right ... | 00:21 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: no | 00:21 |
| lcuk | ok | 00:21 |
| mikhas | sounds nice in theory =p | 00:21 |
| lcuk | reasonable enough :P | 00:21 |
| threezero | mikhas, then you may want to use something like qml or qt-web runtime to do you app | 00:21 |
| w00t_ | mikhas: evening :) | 00:21 |
| threezero | s/you/your | 00:21 |
| mikhas | heya | 00:21 |
| threezero | qwrt seems like the only sane way to write a pure cross platform app | 00:22 |
| lcuk | just regular simple, baseline html :P | 00:22 |
| mikhas | since I am just back from GUADEC the right answer is of course that I write all my apps in HTML5 + JavaScript, of course - *that's* "cross-platform" =p | 00:22 |
| thiago | w00t_: contextkit does, I think | 00:23 |
| mikhas | threezero, I wouldnt say "sane" - for example, Wt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wt_–_Web_toolkit) felt quite sane | 00:23 |
| w00t_ | Qt on its own will work, for the time being, I think(/hope?) QML becomes more capable | 00:23 |
| w00t_ | thiago: ah, didn't think of dependencies | 00:23 |
| mikhas | you'd code in C++, and Wt generates your app using HTML + JS | 00:24 |
| thiago | anyway, we in Qt DF think Qt Quick is the solution | 00:24 |
| lcuk | heh mikhas | 00:24 |
| thiago | we're making that cross-platform | 00:24 |
| thiago | it runs just fine on Symbian and on MeeGo | 00:24 |
| threezero | Qt Quick == qtml? | 00:24 |
| mikhas | Qt Quick is the whole QML stack, threezero | 00:24 |
| w00t_ | thiago: so long as "cross platform" doesn't just mean "builds and runs", because I think that's such a cop-out, and is my current beef with it :p | 00:25 |
| mikhas | simulator, tools, and whatnot | 00:25 |
| w00t_ | (as in, I'd like to see it make effort to fit in where it's running too) | 00:25 |
| w00t_ | (where applicable..) | 00:25 |
| lcuk | speaking of fitting in - you cant really "theme" an iphone can you? | 00:26 |
| lcuk | ie everything looks solidly the same as it has on every device | 00:26 |
| mikhas | even QML abstraction will leak once you realize that different devices require different user interaction | 00:26 |
| threezero | lcuk, on every device meaning "the only" device? | 00:26 |
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| lcuk | threezero, i mean every instance of an iphone | 00:26 |
| thiago | that's why you'd make different QML files for (very) different devices | 00:26 |
| mikhas | and depending on how sophisticated your UI is, you end up with a lot of QML to maintain | 00:27 |
| lcuk | with maemo and meego i gather, no 2 devices will look the same | 00:27 |
| mikhas | that's what I call leaky | 00:27 |
| lcuk | i constantly see screenshots of apps with a totally different face because of some theme or other | 00:27 |
| mikhas | it's the same crossplatform story I get if I only use enough ifdefs | 00:27 |
| mikhas | anyway, I hope Qt Quick lives up to its promises | 00:28 |
| mikhas | (no, seriously) | 00:28 |
| lcuk | in other news: | 00:28 |
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| lcuk | the sun has unleashed a coronal mass ejection towards Earth | 00:28 |
| mikhas | eight minutes to shutdown the servers! | 00:29 |
| lcuk | http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/08/02/2028228/The-Sun-Unleashes-Coronal-Mass-Ejection-At-Earth?from=twitter | 00:29 |
| lcuk | sod the servers, i just washed my hair | 00:29 |
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| mdavison | Hey all | 00:34 |
| mdavison | i've got a question about meego specifications | 00:35 |
| mdavison | is anyone here who can help me with that? | 00:35 |
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| mdavison | im looking for something similar to what Moblin has | 00:38 |
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| mdavison | its a doc called Moblin_v2_Compliance_Spec_v1.9.0.pdf | 00:38 |
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| mdavison | is there anything of that sort available for MeeGo? | 00:39 |
| auke | if there's anything then it's on the wiki | 00:39 |
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| auke | I don't think there is yet though, but I don't know for sure, sorry | 00:39 |
| mdavison | i looked up at the wiki but i couldnt get any | 00:40 |
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| mdavison | auke: actually I'm intrested in software packages and their versions | 00:40 |
| threezero | mdavison, post the question to the meego-dev mailing list | 00:40 |
| auke | agreed, best place to discuss this is the meego mailinglist | 00:41 |
| threezero | mdavison, if you just want packages, that's a bit easier | 00:41 |
| auke | the -community list also works, I bet | 00:41 |
| threezero | but it depends on your target (netbook, handset, foo) | 00:41 |
| mdavison | threezero: a friend of mine posted the question on meego-packaging mailing list in the morning | 00:41 |
| auke | what topic? | 00:41 |
| mdavison | [meego-packaging] MeeGo Specifications | 00:42 |
| mdavison | here's the link | 00:42 |
| mdavison | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-packaging/2010-August/000609.html | 00:42 |
| mdavison | we decided to look at IRC as our last resort | 00:42 |
| mdavison | threezero: auke, we are actually trying to support MeeGo on our development system | 00:43 |
| mdavison | as a target operating system. our development system is a derivative of OpenEmbedded | 00:43 |
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| mdavison | thats why we are interested in the packages and their appropriate version | 00:43 |
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| mdavison | we'd appreciate any help in this regard | 00:44 |
| threezero | there is a package list that gets published with the download images | 00:44 |
| threezero | iirc, it has the package versions in them | 00:44 |
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| mdavison | threezero: thanks | 00:45 |
| threezero | for example: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/netbook/images/meego-netbook-chromium-ia32/meego-netbook-chromium-ia32-1.0-20100524.1.packages | 00:45 |
| mdavison | threezero: thats really helpful | 00:46 |
| mdavison | any idea of a formal document? Or perhaps any plans for a formal compliance document? | 00:46 |
| mdavison | or perhaps its a bit too early for it? | 00:47 |
| threezero | no idea. | 00:47 |
| threezero | it may be too early for one | 00:47 |
| mdavison | yea it seems that way | 00:47 |
| auke | mdavison: I think there will be one eventually, just nothing yet | 00:47 |
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| mdavison | auke: threezero, thanks so much for the help | 00:48 |
| mdavison | we really appreciate it | 00:48 |
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| auke | mdavison: I pinged some people behind the scenes about something official, perhaps they'll get to it :) | 00:54 |
| DawnFoster | I can say that the compliance doc is a big priority for us right now, and there are a few people working to get something published. | 00:55 |
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| DawnFoster | I'm hoping to have a discussion about compliance in the TSG meeting on Wednesday, but I'm still working with Imad / Valtteri to finalize an agenda, so no promises. If so, it would be an update for discussion and not something final. | 00:56 |
| lbt | oh hey DawnFoster wb | 00:56 |
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| ulfhofemeier | Hi | 00:56 |
| DawnFoster | hi guys | 00:56 |
| auke | DawnFoster: ha! thanks for replying | 00:57 |
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| mdavison | auke: thats great | 00:57 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:57 |
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| mdavison | It'll actually help if we have some firm documented stuff | 00:58 |
| mdavison | thanks again | 00:58 |
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| mdavison | 3.00 AM -> Time to sleep :) .. see ya all tomorrow .. bye | 00:58 |
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| lcuk | UlfHofemeier, \o | 01:02 |
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| UlfHofemeier | Hi Dawn | 01:27 |
| DawnFoster | UlfHofemeier: hey! how's it going? Haven't heard from you in a while. | 01:27 |
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| UlfHofemeier | DawnFoster: Very good. Thanks for asking. How are things with you? | 01:29 |
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| DawnFoster | UlfHofemeier: good, thanks! | 01:31 |
| UlfHofemeier | DawnFoster: -> query | 01:31 |
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| vgrade | IVI UX up on O2 Joggler (GMA500), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVL8I1B6uPs | 02:52 |
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| CosmoHill | vgrade: oooo | 02:53 |
| CosmoHill | shiny | 02:53 |
| vgrade | I love this kickstart stuff | 02:54 |
| vgrade | Makes it really easy to mix and match stuff | 02:54 |
| vgrade | took more time to write the image than to create a .ks | 02:55 |
| chriadam | vgrade: vnice, framerate seems fantastic, not seeing any jitters or skips | 02:55 |
| vgrade | all this on old intel hw | 02:55 |
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| chriadam | vgrade: the close button in the lower left appears to not pick up touch events, sometimes.. hardware issue? | 02:57 |
| * CosmoHill gives vgrade a cookie for his work | 02:59 | |
| chriadam | but yeah, totally impressive, nice work | 03:00 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:00 |
| vgrade | night CosmoHIll | 03:00 |
| vgrade | early start tomorrow with the meeting | 03:00 |
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| CosmoHill | hmm infobot has gone | 03:01 |
| CosmoHill | I've been having problems with my bots leaving too | 03:01 |
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| vgrade | chriadam, not sure as its difficult to prod when your looking through camera | 03:02 |
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| Macer | hm | 07:16 |
| Macer | 1.0.1 huh? :) | 07:16 |
| Macer | how is the n900 dev going? | 07:16 |
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| DawnFoster | Just a quick reminder that the community office meeting is in about 30 minutes: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings for anyone wanting to attend. | 07:28 |
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| rohitawasthi | hi..I am new at developing programs for other thn computer | 07:49 |
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| Jisong | any one here? | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | sortof | 08:49 |
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| ali_z | hi all, I get black screen while run 'startmeego' in the meego-netbook-sdk env. | 08:50 |
| ali_z | how could i do? | 08:50 |
| Jisong | sorry | 08:50 |
| Jisong | I working for meego handset | 08:50 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: what you interest in? | 08:51 |
| ali_z | Jisong: thanks, | 08:51 |
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| Stskeeps | Jisong: i work on nokia n900 hardware adaptation team, using meego handset software on there | 08:52 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: so, you are a nokia employee? | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | no, i'm a sub-sub-contractor, but practically i'm from maemo.org, but working on meego | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:53 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: complicate... | 08:54 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: you come from US? | 08:54 |
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| Stskeeps | Jisong: poland | 08:54 |
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| Jisong | Stskeeps: I want to join to the meego touch project, but i knew nothing about the open source style. | 08:55 |
| Jisong | have you already join to some project in meego ? | 08:56 |
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| Stskeeps | Jisong: best way is to try and submit patches, see their reactions, if there's some materials you're missing, ask for them | 08:56 |
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| ChildOfGod | ali_z: what graphics shipset do you have? | 08:57 |
| ChildOfGod | chipset* | 08:57 |
| ali_z | ChildOfGod: VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 10) | 08:57 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: I have tried to contact with admin of the meego touch project, and told him my suggestion about naming convension and other things, but it seems no react from him... | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | Jisong: admins on gitorious usually have nothing to deal with it :/ | 08:58 |
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| Jisong | Stskeeps: uh.... what should I do for my suggestion | 08:59 |
| ali_z | ChildOfGod: I could get meego-handset-sdk normally several days ago, and now it is still working. | 09:00 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: my suggestion related to so many source code lines. I can't patch it by myself... | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | Jisong: mailing list, i think | 09:01 |
| ChildOfGod | ali_z: intel should work | 09:01 |
| Jisong | Stskeeps: Yeah, I did that... but, still no responce... | 09:01 |
| ChildOfGod | kindly paste me the output of /var/log/syslog on your host system (not the chroot) | 09:01 |
| ChildOfGod | ali_z: ^ | 09:01 |
| ChildOfGod | use pastebin | 09:01 |
| ali_z | ChildOfGod: but i could only see the background at first, and then it could not show the whole desktop but a black screen | 09:02 |
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| Jisong | ali_z: one of my collegue has same problem. I update qt to 4.7.0 then problem occured. | 09:03 |
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| ChildOfGod | ok. | 09:05 |
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| ChildOfGod | did you check the md5sum of the sdk you downloaded? | 09:06 |
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| ali_z | Jisong: I use the meego-netbook-sdk, and the qt version is 'qt-4.7.0~prerelease-6.2.i586' | 09:07 |
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| ali_z | Jisong: should i update to which version? | 09:07 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: how to use pastebin? | 09:08 |
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| Jisong | ali_z: No, I think update may cause problem... | 09:08 |
| ali_z | Jisong: oh, sorry to misunderstanding. | 09:09 |
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| ali_z | Jisong: then should i downgrade the qt package? | 09:09 |
| Jisong | ali_z: Ha, it's ok, my english is tragic... | 09:10 |
| ChildOfGod | http://pastebin.ca | 09:10 |
| Jisong | ali_z: I have no idea, but you should show your boot log. | 09:10 |
| ChildOfGod | ali_z: sorry, wait | 09:11 |
| ChildOfGod | http://fpaste.org | 09:11 |
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| ali_z | Jisong: i will when i learned how to use pastebin, and thank you | 09:12 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: thanks , now i am trying | 09:12 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: i am sorry, there is no /var/log/syslog on my host system | 09:13 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: could i use 'dmesg' to get some logs? | 09:14 |
| ChildOfGod | ya sure | 09:14 |
| ChildOfGod | al | 09:14 |
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| ChildOfGod | ali_z: | 09:14 |
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| ali_z | oh, it is too big to paste, i should spit it to several small parts | 09:16 |
| ali_z | ChildOfGod: should i paste all of the 'dmesg' log? | 09:17 |
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| ChildOfGod | no | 09:17 |
| ChildOfGod | only the stuff that comes after you run the sdk | 09:17 |
| ChildOfGod | al | 09:17 |
| ChildOfGod | ali_z: | 09:17 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: oh, then i clear the messages first and re-run the command | 09:18 |
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| ChildOfGod | well | 09:19 |
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| ChildOfGod | ali_z: yes you could do that | 09:19 |
| ChildOfGod | ali_z: or do tail -f /var/log/messages | 09:19 |
| ChildOfGod | and paste me what comes there | 09:20 |
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| ChildOfGod | i suspect mutter is crashing for you | 09:20 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: http://fpaste.org/DWsK/ the log info while i run startmeego-debug, and i saw that the contents of /var/log/messages is like that | 09:25 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: the contents of /var/log/meesages is too large and the tail of it should be not enough | 09:28 |
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| ChildOfGod | ya thats ok | 09:28 |
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| ChildOfGod | i cant see anything wrong in particular. mutter does not seem to crash ali_z | 09:29 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: oh, but i could not see the normally destkop of meego | 09:34 |
| ali_z | ChildOfGod: the log info from /var/log/messages: http://fpaste.org/oPL4/ | 09:34 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: what is the meaning of "NOTE: Not using GLX TFP!" from mutter-warning? | 09:43 |
| ChildOfGod | ali_z: whatever it is, it doesnt matter because i get it too and it runs fine here :) | 09:43 |
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| ali_z | ChildOfGod: oh, it's strange for me, and thank you for you help, i'll redo everything and have a try again. | 09:44 |
| ChildOfGod | ya do that. | 09:45 |
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| haichen | hi | 10:07 |
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| haichen | I neeed help! | 10:08 |
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| haichen | does anybody know about release.gpg and release in Maemo? | 10:09 |
| krypton | gug | 10:11 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:14 |
| krypton | is there a unique key of device which we can read in MeeGo ? | 10:14 |
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| lbt | o/ | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | morn lbt | 10:26 |
| lcuk | \o | 10:26 |
| TermanaN900 | hey lbt | 10:26 |
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| lbt | good morning | 10:26 |
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| sx0n | morning | 10:55 |
| amjad | morning | 10:57 |
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| Phazorx | bah... anyone EVER tried to make linux bootable with BCD? | 12:42 |
| Phazorx | is that even feasible? | 12:42 |
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| nuovodna | any news on the first phone nokia with meego?? | 12:45 |
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| toggles_w | anyone have video http://meego.com/community/blogs/margie/2010/meego-ivi-v1.0-announcement ? | 16:21 |
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| Stskeeps | toggles_w: vgrade has a video of it running on his joggler | 16:24 |
| toggles_w | Stskeeps: linky? ;-) | 16:24 |
| luist | hey guys... i made a custom list/repository for garage, and it has many applications... after loading some of them, it gives me a dbus limit exceed error and stops resolving the applications... how can i prevent that? | 16:25 |
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| Stskeeps | toggles_w: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQSLauI1zI | 16:25 |
| toggles_w | Stskeeps: grazie! | 16:26 |
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| zimmerle | vgrade: ping | 16:27 |
| zimmerle | vgrade: just saw your email abot the psb, someone tested it? | 16:27 |
| zimmerle | btw, i had some progress on it some weeks ago, you can check it out at: http://www.zimmerle.org/index.html | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | zimmerle: you're aware we're using emgd right? :P | 16:28 |
| zimmerle | emgd? no, what is emgd? :P | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | zimmerle: continuation of iegd but for xorg 1.8 (meego 1.0 point of reference) | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | zimmerle: http://jogglerwiki.info/index.php?title=MeeGo#Meego_1.0_Those_over_there_are_not_giants_but_windmills | 16:30 |
| zimmerle | let me check it out :P | 16:30 |
| zimmerle | btw, i am building a image to test on psb | 16:30 |
| zimmerle | i see | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | it is hardly licensing kosher (yes, still a closed xorg driver and closed libs) but it works quite well | 16:31 |
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| zimmerle | 3d is working well ? | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | zimmerle: i have full handset ux on there flawlessly (fennec excepted) | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | so i'd think it works well enough | 16:34 |
| zimmerle | Just downloading the packges | 16:34 |
| * zimmerle on the phone, back in minutes | 16:35 | |
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| arfoll | does anyone know when the community OBS will be open? | 16:46 |
| leinir | A totally grabbed out of my own back-side guess would be sometime before the convention ;) | 16:47 |
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| cmoatoto | Hi | 17:01 |
| cmoatoto | maybe you can help me | 17:01 |
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| cmoatoto | I work on the moblin-dalston applet (for power & volume management) | 17:01 |
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| cmoatoto | and I'm looking for the dev on the meego power management (the little battery on the right in the meego's toolbar | 17:02 |
| cmoatoto | but I can find it on gitorious... | 17:03 |
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| cmoatoto | Do you know where I can find the sources, to see what they (you) did from moblin? | 17:04 |
| cmoatoto | *(I meant "I CAN'T find it on gitorious") | 17:05 |
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| Termana | I think MeeGo should be based on GNU's kernel instead of the Linux kernel. I HURD it was good | 17:55 |
| Termana | :P | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: random question, why did noone react to the open letter thing if this was a problem? | 17:57 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: I'm not sure. | 17:57 |
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| UlfHofemeier | Hi | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: because then i'd like to point to what repo.meego.com resolves to and our 'non-oss' category :/ | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | so figuring out what exactly the policy is is probably a good idea | 17:59 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I think that lbt's post to the mailing list was very long and the real issue was buried | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: not entirely disagreeing on that point | 17:59 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I think people missed the core of what he was asking | 18:00 |
| lbt | buried? | 18:00 |
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| lbt | The purpose of this letter is to ask the MeeGo community | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: but anyway, repo.meego.com resolves to OSUOSL and hosts closed source software, so we have a bigger problem if this is the agreement. | 18:00 |
| lbt | for their permission to bring Maemo build targets (currently Fremantle | 18:00 |
| lbt | eventually Harmattan, Diablo, Chinook?) to the MeeGo Community OBS | 18:00 |
| lbt | "We want to build Nokia SW on MeeGo" ... how is that buried? | 18:01 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I agree that we haven't figured that out yet. | 18:01 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: the email was very long | 18:02 |
| lbt | it was in the first paragraph | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: sorry, didn't mean to appear hostile, not my intention.. i guess the center core is that we're missing out on the possibility for bringing in maemo developers on to meego this way | 18:02 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I'm just speculating | 18:02 |
| lbt | anyhow... now you know... have a longer read :) | 18:03 |
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| lbt | It's a horrible position to be in | 18:03 |
| lbt | you know I'm a rabid card-carrying FSF member (really, I am) | 18:03 |
| lbt | but I think we need to be pragmatic | 18:03 |
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| DawnFoster | The balance between open / proprietary isn't always clean, and it's hard to figure out where to draw the line. | 18:04 |
| lbt | *nod*.... we want to support the maemo community | 18:04 |
| lbt | and *THAT* is the crux | 18:04 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I agree | 18:04 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: but we need to make sure that we do it in the right way | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: is there any problem in keeping maemo.org OBS and a OBS link to make it possible to build apps? | 18:05 |
| lbt | we will also have other real world issues going fwd ... but they can wait for a bar | 18:05 |
| DawnFoster | if we make exceptions for Nokia, do we make exceptions for every device manufacturer? | 18:05 |
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| lbt | see the email :) | 18:05 |
| lbt | para 5 or 6 | 18:05 |
| lbt | I put hours of thought into writing and re-writing (and condensing) it | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: we also have a problem with forum software choice now then, as mike shaver originally said it wasn't a problem.. | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | as long as umbrella project was os | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | s | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | (Re: [Meego-community] (URGENT) Meego Forum Software Choice ) | 18:07 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: that's a different issue | 18:08 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: no, not really, http://pastebin.com/Z1fkjnBC | 18:09 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: like I said, this is one of those gray areas | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:10 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: either way.. getting a clear statement is probably the basis of these discussions | 18:10 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I gave my opinion of which side of the gray area it falls in bugzilla | 18:10 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: someone may decide I'm wrong :) | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: :nod: and i might be wrong too | 18:10 |
| lbt | this is why I wrote an open letter for discussion... | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: from a entirely practical point of view, we have a problem in how to merge these two communities and continuation of app developers on to meego, we have to find a way to deal with it :P | 18:12 |
| DawnFoster | So rather than debate amongst ourselves, who owns making this decision? Probably Arjan from an overall technical project architecture and someone from the Linux Foundation (maybe Ibrahim) | 18:12 |
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| DawnFoster | or maybe Mark Skarpness from a compliance perspective | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | okay, so, stepping back - we're speaking of maemo closed bins, which is needed to build apps for maemo | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | they have nothing to deal with meego app building or inclusion into the meego software | 18:13 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: application development is critical to the success of MeeGo, and I agree that we can't lose application developers | 18:13 |
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| DawnFoster | we just need to make sure that we get everyone together working on MeeGo (not Maemo / Moblin) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | yes, and being able to build for the two is a key issue | 18:14 |
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| lbt | From Nokia PoV we have Harmattan as the first MeeGo-esque target too | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: another (big) issue is the whole issue with harmattan.. | 18:15 |
| lbt | snap? | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: okay.. so, a practical suggestion: would you be able to make a writeup presenting this topic so we can get the topic discussed properly? | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | because i think the discussion needs to be taken properly this time around so we can put it in the ground or on wheels | 18:17 |
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| Stskeeps | and preferably agreed on either by CO or TSG so it's stone set | 18:18 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I disagree | 18:18 |
| thiago | the one after Harmattan is *really* MeeGo | 18:18 |
| thiago | I've been talking to the team who is organising themselves to do it | 18:18 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: this is outside of the scope of the community office | 18:19 |
| timeless | thiago: hey, you're the Qt person, right? | 18:19 |
| thiago | they will take MeeGo 1.0.80 snapshots now and try to bolt the Nokia apps on top | 18:19 |
| timeless | a colleague is running into Qt pain and is looking for help | 18:19 |
| * slonopotamus yawns. same talk again and again... just publish closed stuff in a country where it isn't against law and ftw. | 18:19 | |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: okay | 18:19 |
| thiago | timeless: no, I'm a Qt person. Not "the one" :-) | 18:19 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: TSG is only for escalations and big decisions that can't be made lower in the project | 18:19 |
| timeless | thiago: you'll do ;-b) | 18:19 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: someone should take it to Arjan, Mark and Ibrahim first | 18:19 |
| DawnFoster | I'm not the right person to do that | 18:19 |
| thiago | these people are also investigating the delta (versions, patches) between Harmattan and MeeGo 1.1 | 18:19 |
| thiago | including the multitouch X.org driver | 18:20 |
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| w00t_ | thiago: sounds fun | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i'll make a 10 liner writeup on the issue and get the conversation starte | 18:20 |
| timeless | thiago: basically, we're having trouble figuring out what is responsible for ensuring that dead keys get partially eaten by the QtXIM bridge before they arrive at the application's event handler | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | d | 18:20 |
| thiago | timeless: someone inserted an event filter and they're getting deadkeys? | 18:21 |
| timeless | i don't think they've inserted anything | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: would you like to review before it's passed around? | 18:21 |
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| timeless | i think for some reason the normal Qt filtering isn't being triggered | 18:21 |
| thiago | if they just have keyEvent handlers, they shouldn't be getting deadkeys | 18:21 |
| timeless | .. so they get too much of the deadkeys | 18:21 |
| thiago | but I have seen cases where it doesn't work | 18:21 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I'd be happy to take a look if you want my opinion on it | 18:21 |
| timeless | thiago: anyway, the code is mozilla's Qt widget stack | 18:22 |
| thiago | it happens once in a while in KDE apps, but doing Alt+Tab out and back solves the problem | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: gladly - i do respect your opinion and most often agree with it :P | 18:22 |
| thiago | it happens consistently on Qt Creator when opening tests/auto/qurl/tst_qurl.cpp | 18:22 |
| timeless | this is consistent, the app (Fennec-Qt) *always* gets Press+Release | 18:22 |
| thiago | timeless: of the deadkeys? | 18:22 |
| timeless | i think they're expecting not to get the Press for the deadkey | 18:22 |
| timeless | thiago: yep | 18:22 |
| timeless | (and any other key) | 18:22 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: half the fun of working on an open source project is that we get to argue with people until we finally find something we can all agree to :) | 18:22 |
| thiago | timeless: so if you press dead_acute, you get ´ printed? | 18:22 |
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| timeless | thiago: um, lemme make a call | 18:23 |
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| timeless | i think the key we're using is ^/umlaut/tilde | 18:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | it makes me respect the IETF process all the more, "rough consensus, working code." :P | 18:24 |
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| timeless | i guess the natural character is umlaut, which i don't think is normally represented | 18:25 |
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| timeless | (uncomposed) | 18:25 |
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| timeless | thiago: anyway, i'll try to get him to poke you tomorrow | 18:27 |
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| timeless | you're @troll central, right? are you generally around by 9a local time? | 18:28 |
| * timeless just wants to make a connection, not sit as a middleman | 18:28 | |
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| CosmoHill | wrong button | 18:30 |
| * thiago is on vacation | 18:31 | |
| CosmoHill | yay | 18:31 |
| thiago | ask him to go to #qt or #qt-labs | 18:31 |
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| timeless | funny use of a vacation =b | 18:31 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: mail sent to you and quim - thanks in advance for comments and suggestions | 19:02 |
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| Stskeeps | cool, the handset and netbook qemu sdk images are out | 20:45 |
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| CosmoHill | PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND | 20:52 |
| CosmoHill | 6813 root 30 10 3676 504 428 R 79.2 0.1 0:45.63 rm | 20:52 |
| CosmoHill | 2053 root 15 -5 0 0 0 R 16.5 0.0 12:10.45 kmirrord | 20:52 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 20:52 |
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| Myrtti | hrm. | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 21:27 |
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| slaine | evening all | 22:04 |
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| th0br0 | evening slaine | 22:12 |
| DawnFoster | hi slaine | 22:13 |
| slaine | evening th0br0, long time no type | 22:13 |
| slaine | Hey DawnFoster, welcome back | 22:13 |
| slaine | did you have a good vacation ? | 22:13 |
| th0br0 | indeed, the past few weeks have been horrible in terms of work-load for me | 22:13 |
| th0br0 | wb DawnFoster | 22:13 |
| slaine | th0br0: snap | 22:13 |
| slaine | hella busy | 22:13 |
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| slaine | it's 20:13 here and I'm still working | 22:13 |
| DawnFoster | slaine, thanks! I had a really nice, relaxing location - I ignored work and email for 6 days :) | 22:13 |
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| DawnFoster | oops location = vacation | 22:14 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: awe, sounds like bliss | 22:14 |
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| DawnFoster | slaine: it was nice - visited with family, rode enormous fast roller coasters | 22:14 |
| slaine | stop, I'm turning green | 22:15 |
| slaine | with jealousy, not imagined motion sickness ;) | 22:15 |
| slaine | When will Intel release cloning technology | 22:16 |
| DawnFoster | I was just wondering which one :) We went here, btw: http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/park/rides/coasters/index.cfm | 22:16 |
| DawnFoster | we're working on it | 22:16 |
| slaine | I've so much stuff to do and so many "projects" I'm never going to get time to start | 22:16 |
| slaine | cedarpoint, I've heard of it (all good things) | 22:16 |
| DawnFoster | it's one of the top roller coaster parks in the world - conveniently located 1.5 hours away from where I grew up | 22:17 |
| slaine | handy alright | 22:17 |
| DawnFoster | I know the feeling - too many projects & not enough time. | 22:18 |
| slaine | yup | 22:18 |
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| slaine | awe well, coffee will help some of them to fruition, bbs | 22:18 |
| DawnFoster | I have some personal tech projects that I am deliberately neglecting until summer is over. | 22:18 |
| DawnFoster | I was pretty burned out already when I started working at Intel, so I needed a little down time | 22:18 |
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| ScottishDuck | DawnFoster: Could you send me a sandy bridge CPU and LGA2011 motherboard | 22:19 |
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| ScottishDuck | thanks in advance | 22:19 |
| DawnFoster | ScottishDuck: nice try :) | 22:19 |
| DawnFoster | I haven't even been able to get my hands on one of those aava platforms (my request was denied) :) | 22:20 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: the shame | 22:20 |
| ScottishDuck | You could send me a Rockwell CPU then | 22:20 |
| slaine | ;) | 22:20 |
| DawnFoster | I'll keep asking - someday I'll get one | 22:20 |
| slaine | "Dream weaver, I believe in you...." | 22:21 |
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| slaine | yeah right | 22:21 |
| ScottishDuck | I think those aava handsets are devilishly expensive | 22:21 |
| Kaadlajk | current aava images dont work anyway :) | 22:22 |
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| Kaadlajk | or atleast you need keyboard | 22:22 |
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| DawnFoster | I've seen it working, but I wouldn't call it end use ready :) | 22:23 |
| Kaadlajk | yeah the image released on handset day 1 worked | 22:23 |
| * Stskeeps has started making a kitchen UX based on handset UX for him and his wife (joggler based) | 22:23 | |
| Stskeeps | nice free time project | 22:23 |
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| th0br0 | haha Stskeeps | 22:27 |
| th0br0 | nice idea. | 22:27 |
| th0br0 | and hello | 22:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: I need to get you on a LinuxMCE installation. ;) | 22:28 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: you're going to port a recipe app to it? | 22:28 |
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| Stskeeps | Myrtti: we have recipes in onenote so we were thinking of exporting to html | 22:29 |
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| Stskeeps | as a start | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: once you can view tv series like boxee does, i'm in | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:29 |
| Myrtti | right. I've got Gourmet on my desktop and had the whatever app it was on N800 | 22:29 |
| * TSCHAKeee has our current Orbiter ported over to the Joggler for now. | 22:29 | |
| Myrtti | goddammit, hiccups | 22:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: it's on the list to redo the entire media browser... but it is worth noting we're the only whole house solution that exists. | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: yeah, i like whole house but with a wife that cares about power consumption.. | 22:30 |
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| TSCHAKeee | (the ultra high end solutions like Crestron and AMX don't even come close) | 22:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* | 22:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 22:31 |
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| TSCHAKeee | </sales_pitch> | 22:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | i really wouldn't mind power management that didn't only deal with cpus and battery life.. but seeing the entire house in context | 22:32 |
| ScottishDuck | I wonder how Intel intends to make 16nm CPUs in 2013 | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:32 |
| ScottishDuck | because I'm pretty sure it's impossible with silicon | 22:32 |
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| vgrade | zimmerle, hi, just seen your page on the psb netbook build | 22:41 |
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| zimmerle | vgrade: hi there :P | 23:31 |
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| zimmerle | vgrade: i not tested yours yet | 23:31 |
| zimmerle | vgrade: the image is built | 23:31 |
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| gentth | hi | 23:48 |
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