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| Gaffoonie | 'lo | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
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| CosmoHill | salut | 00:32 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | hey CosmoHill | 00:33 |
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| CosmoHill | trem: !!!!!! | 00:33 |
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| CosmoHill | http://i48.tinypic.com/2quklxy.jpg | 00:58 |
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| CosmoHill | woof / rawr | 00:58 |
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| leinir | CosmoHill: Funky :) | 01:02 |
| CosmoHill | :3 | 01:02 |
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| night_amir | hi all) | 01:27 |
| CosmoHill | salut | 01:28 |
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| CosmoHill | anyone know about VMware ESXi 4.0? | 01:29 |
| rohanpm | CosmoHill: I use it... what about it? | 01:32 |
| rohanpm | hold on, actually I use "VMware ESX 4.0.0", is that `i' a `marketing-i' or does it mean something? | 01:32 |
| CosmoHill | the 'i' doesn't have a linux control on the server | 01:33 |
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| night_amir | do anybody know, will be MeeGo SDK for Windows? | 01:35 |
| CosmoHill | pretty sure it's a chroot enviroment so no | 01:36 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm using VMware go but it's annoying the crap out of me | 01:43 |
| rohanpm | CosmoHill, what's the problem? | 01:43 |
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| CosmoHill | looking at VMware Go, I can't find the VM network settings or how to resize the hard drive | 01:44 |
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| CosmoHill | I downloaded VMware vSphere client off the ESXi server but the damn thing doesn't support 7 | 01:46 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 01:48 |
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| the_lord | Hi | 03:06 |
| the_lord | is it true that tomorrow I'll have meego in my N900 ? | 03:06 |
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| GAN900 | No | 03:43 |
| GAN900 | The "day one" release of the Handset UX will (hopefully) be out. | 03:43 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | GAN900: right down to the wire | 03:49 |
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| GAN900 | Aye | 03:56 |
| GAN900 | Always is with Nokia | 03:57 |
| GAN900 | It'll probably be delayed. | 03:57 |
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| amjad | has ny one got a mips netbook yet?? | 05:19 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&feature=player_embedded | 05:24 |
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| luke-jr | amjad: RMS does | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | Yeeloong | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | I'd buy one if they were a bit more reasonably priced :/ | 05:49 |
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| ml-mobile | you can get a Ben! | 05:54 |
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| ml-mobile | bit small though | 05:56 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | WHAT PHONE HAS AN APP THAT CAN MAKE SKYPE CALLS WITHOUT USING YOUR MINUTES | 06:38 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | AND SEND SKYPE IM MESSAGES? | 06:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | uhhhh | 06:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the N900? | 06:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 06:39 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 shakes head | 06:39 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | $(#@$(#@ Droid commercials. | 06:39 |
| GAN900 | Me too | 06:47 |
| GAN900 | So sick of them | 06:47 |
| GAN900 | It's too bad the MyNokia thing is such a mess | 06:47 |
| GAN900 | The dinosaurs in charge REALLY need to go. | 06:47 |
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| ash2dust | Hello | 07:39 |
| *** ash2dust is now known as Ash2Dust | 07:39 | |
| Ash2Dust | I was wondering what the procedure is for hardware developers to release their devices with meego on it. | 07:39 |
| Ash2Dust | Is there anyone I can contact to provide me with more details on the procedure? | 07:40 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:18 |
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| tekojo | morning Jaffa! | 09:21 |
| * tekojo going on and off like a yoyo | 09:21 | |
| Guest58870 | Can handset be out today? | 09:23 |
| Guest58870 | Anyone knows?tks | 09:23 |
| Surfa | no? | 09:24 |
| sandst1 | at least the repos are created http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/ | 09:25 |
| Surfa | it's told that today you get some pre alpha release of meego for handsets, official release sometime in october and handset before end of the year | 09:25 |
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| kirma | fairly many hints point commercially supported launch of Nokian Meego to happen at Nokia World, not really earlier | 09:29 |
| kirma | of course, I could be wrong :) | 09:29 |
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| test12345 | test | 09:44 |
| test12345 | any news? | 09:44 |
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| Jaffa | tekojo: Morning, mate! | 09:46 |
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| crown77 | So today is the Day any news about the new Meego for N900 with the full UX? | 09:58 |
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| test12345 | yes | 10:01 |
| test12345 | i guess we're all waiting | 10:01 |
| crown77 | its like to wait for maemo PR 1.2 *lol* | 10:02 |
| thiago_office | nothing can be like that | 10:03 |
| thiago_office | now PR1.3.... | 10:03 |
| crown77 | well i dont belive that we will see a PR 1.3 | 10:03 |
| thiago_office | I hope we do, 'cause I want Qt 4.7 | 10:03 |
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| tripzero | it is now "Day One" in portland! | 10:07 |
| tripzero | (12:07am) | 10:07 |
| thiago_office | yay | 10:07 |
| crown77 | will QT 4.7 really allow to recompile Symbian QT Apps for the Maemo what do you think thiago_office? | 10:07 |
| thiago_office | it's already 1.375 here | 10:07 |
| thiago_office | crown77: sorry? | 10:07 |
| tripzero | 4.7 brings qml | 10:08 |
| crown77 | i heard that if we have a unique QT for Symbian and Maemo it will be easy to use Apps from Symbian for the N900 | 10:08 |
| thiago_office | if you write a pure Qt app (no platform specific code, including QtMaemo5), then your code is cross-platform | 10:09 |
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| tripzero | yay | 10:10 |
| crown77 | alright but i guess the platform code will be inside the most interesting apps for Symbian i thought about Navigon - Tomtom Navigation and so one | 10:10 |
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| thiago_office | if you write platform-specific code, you're restricted to the platforms you wrote code for | 10:12 |
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| Junnu | tested last night meego with the flybook a33, it just hangs in the boot | 10:39 |
| Junnu | after that tested with the dual core atom board, worked ok...but the screen updating was little slow...maybe related to 1920x1200 resolution | 10:40 |
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| thiago_office | what processor does the a33 have? | 10:42 |
| thiago_office | and what graphics chipset on the board? | 10:42 |
| blino | that's a Transmeta processor, right? | 10:44 |
| thiago_office | does it have SSSE3 support? | 10:46 |
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| Junnu | it doesnt | 10:50 |
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| thiago_office | then you can't use the netbook images. Those require SSSE3. | 10:52 |
| Junnu | but that laptop has touch screen, it seems that the meego gui would be suitable for touch screens | 10:52 |
| thiago_office | it's meant to, yes | 10:52 |
| ZogG | i just came in, why can't he use meego again? | 10:52 |
| thiago_office | ZogG: it's the second sentence in my line :-) | 10:53 |
| ZogG | what was the first and his one before | 10:53 |
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| ZogG | <thiago_office> then you can't use the netbook images. Those require SSSE3. - i'm interested in explanation here =) | 10:54 |
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| * ZogG has to re-compile damn xorg, once winkey works properly as in config as composite key, sometimes it switches screens as alt+F* | 10:55 | |
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| dnaumov | heard some rumors that N900 Handsex UX 1.0 is coming out today, any truth to that? | 11:04 |
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| dnaumov | Handsex even | 11:04 |
| dnaumov | aaaaaa | 11:04 |
| dnaumov | Handset | 11:04 |
| dnaumov | sorry :) | 11:04 |
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| Jaffa | dnaumov: It's supposed to be out in June. So it's either today or late. | 11:12 |
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| ZogG | Jaffa which year =) | 11:12 |
| lbt | heh | 11:12 |
| ZogG | doubt it would come today, with no preview, though saw at TMO someone mentioned that git was updated. | 11:13 |
| ZogG | Jaffa, is it Nokia UX or global one? | 11:13 |
| ZogG | as well as will it be demonstrated on n900 or n9? | 11:13 |
| slaine | There's a TSG tonight all about the handset ux, it's the last day in june, conditions are ripe for releasing an early preview of the Handset UX | 11:14 |
| ZogG | oh if it's TSG it would be preview i assume | 11:14 |
| slaine | I think it's been stated that the handset ux won't ship 'til MeeGo 1.1 anyway | 11:15 |
| ZogG | but on what device it would be presented? | 11:15 |
| slaine | what we're all waiting on is a chance to work with the ux codebase | 11:15 |
| ZogG | slaine i hope we can get beta or alpha anyway | 11:15 |
| slaine | ZogG, not being a maemo person or a nokia person, I can't say. At a guess, the n900 will be targeted as the developers platform for the handset ux codebase 'til nokia formally announce any meego specific nxxx meego hardware | 11:16 |
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| dnaumov | any idea if the handset ux is gonna be actually semi-useful in daily use or just a preview? | 11:16 |
| thiago | ZogG: there is no N9 | 11:16 |
| slaine | dnaumov: we'll find out tonight | 11:17 |
| thiago | ZogG: and the N8 doesn't run MeeGo | 11:17 |
| crown77 | and after that will the N900 have still support by Meego? | 11:17 |
| slaine | crown77: meego is an open community project, I don't see why not | 11:17 |
| dnaumov | slaine: I thought development was supposed to be open, yet noone knows details? :) | 11:17 |
| thiago | ZogG: sorry I also forgot to reply | 11:17 |
| thiago | ZogG: SSSE3 is a requirement | 11:17 |
| slaine | dnaumov: that's whats happening today | 11:17 |
| thiago | ZogG: if your CPU doesn't have that, you need to recompile MeeGo | 11:17 |
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| ZogG | thiago 1) i think there is prototype of n9 at least 2) there are some leaked pics | 11:18 |
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| thiago | ZogG: leaked doesn't count | 11:18 |
| thiago | prototypes, if they exist, don't count either | 11:19 |
| ZogG | dnaumov the open source was great till corporations started to use it for their purposes | 11:19 |
| ZogG | thiago why not? | 11:19 |
| ZogG | wazd, \o/ | 11:19 |
| thiago | because prototypes are private | 11:19 |
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| Aard | dnaumov: it's quite usable already, though don't expect being able to use cellular stuff yet | 11:20 |
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| dnaumov | Aard: ah, doh :/ that kinda rules it out for me | 11:21 |
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| dnaumov | Aard: I would need calls/sms/data, web browser and exchange syncing to work at a bare minimum | 11:21 |
| thiago | ZogG: until there's an official announcement talking about a device called N9, no such device exists | 11:21 |
| thiago | ZogG: *I* don't know if it will be called N9 | 11:21 |
| ZogG | thiago, you know what i mean | 11:22 |
| ZogG | are you Noia's employee ? | 11:22 |
| thiago | yes, I am | 11:22 |
| thiago | which is why I am correcting you | 11:22 |
| thiago | there is no N9 | 11:22 |
| ZogG | ok, now i see ) | 11:22 |
| lbt | dnaumov: hehehehe.... | 11:22 |
| Aard | dnaumov: calls/sms/data depends on your hardware. browser is present, don't expect exchange sync | 11:22 |
| dnaumov | hardware is n900 | 11:22 |
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| ZogG | thiago, are you meego dev as well? | 11:23 |
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| thiago | ZogG: no | 11:23 |
| * lbt wonders if people understand what an early code-oriented release is? | 11:23 | |
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| Aard | dnaumov: well, good news is that you've got the change to do some work on your own... :p | 11:23 |
| thiago | lbt: you see why TPTB didn't want to release early? :-) | 11:23 |
| ZogG | thiago, any relation to project? | 11:23 |
| thiago | ZogG: yes, Qt development | 11:24 |
| lbt | thiago: IMHO they released too late | 11:24 |
| ZogG | lbt, for me it means community can start porting and optifing it to N900 =) | 11:24 |
| thiago | lbt: I know the feeling | 11:24 |
| lbt | this is a "big reveal" of a "not working" system... | 11:24 |
| thiago | unfortunately, I also know *why* things are slow | 11:24 |
| ZogG | thiago, can i ask your work related question? | 11:25 |
| lbt | the whole "tada!" "but it's not actually working... sorry we got you all excited" | 11:25 |
| thiago | ZogG: yes | 11:25 |
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| thiago | ZogG: I am at work, so I can answer work-related questions :-) | 11:25 |
| ZogG | thiago, all the symbian>maemo/meego port with qt sdk is easy now - right? | 11:25 |
| thiago | ZogG: hopefully, yes | 11:27 |
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| ZogG | i just wonder, as we saw the videos of Nokia with some programs ported to maemo from symbian, the question is "Is nokia waiting to release them to meego or we would get at some point them to maemo5 as well, or it was only the proof on concept videos?" | 11:28 |
| thiago | I don't know which apps you've seen | 11:30 |
| thiago | and I am not involved with the app development | 11:30 |
| thiago | however, we do want people to write their apps for both Symbian and MeeGo | 11:30 |
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| thiago | that's the whole reason why we provided Qt for Maemo5 too | 11:30 |
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| ZogG | thiago, it's make easier for to use the written programs or for devs of non-free apps, but what about existing apps, let's say i saw shazam on N900 on one of the vids, but stil lwe don't get it =( | 11:32 |
| thiago | is that a Qt-based app? | 11:33 |
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| ZogG | thiago, it was presented on the video of QT porting with Nokia Qt SDK | 11:34 |
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| thiago | I'm having a hard time understanding you | 11:34 |
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| thiago | please make shorter, simpler sentences | 11:34 |
| rob_w | hi all .. .i am working for a tablet pc manufactuere and i now need to look into meego ... | 11:35 |
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| ZogG | thiago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsHc53B5PBs | 11:35 |
| rob_w | i wonder how far i can access the kernel as i need to integrate our touchscreens into it. Any good hints or wikis i can look for that | 11:35 |
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| ZogG | rob_w, have checked the off site? | 11:36 |
| rob_w | off site ? | 11:36 |
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| ZogG | rob_w, official site | 11:37 |
| thiago | rob_w: kernel development happens in kernel.org | 11:37 |
| thiago | rob_w: for meego, you're supposed to develop your modifications and propose them to kernel.org | 11:37 |
| thiago | and then work with the kernel team to ensure that your hardware remains supported | 11:37 |
| ZogG | http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process - maybe this can help as well | 11:38 |
| rob_w | ok thats good as you say that | 11:38 |
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| thiago | rob_w: now, if you're shipping a device with MeeGo on it, you can build your own kernel and not seek integration of the patches... | 11:38 |
| rob_w | well i got my touchscreens all working with "normal" linux xorg .. so i am searching for the meego specific parts | 11:38 |
| thiago | but that's not the preferred path | 11:38 |
| thiago | do you have multitouch touchscreens? | 11:39 |
| thiago | ZogG: ok, I'm seeing the video. What about it? | 11:39 |
| rob_w | ur right thiago but my drivers are mostly Xorg related and they are pretty slow in taking stuff so i am mostly stuck to integrate it myself | 11:39 |
| thiago | understood | 11:39 |
| rob_w | no multitouch sofar but we have resistive and digitizers | 11:39 |
| thiago | but why does X require drivers? Shouldn't evdev be enough? | 11:40 |
| rob_w | i am still at the start with meego , is tehre a Xorg running | 11:40 |
| thiago | take the netbook image. Yes, there's an X.org running. | 11:40 |
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| rob_w | well it has historical reasons .. but i love to get them as evdev compilant device | 11:41 |
| rob_w | excellent | 11:41 |
| ZogG | thiago, so it's Qt and it was ported, my question is it only "proof of concept" video or Nokia would actually port already existing apps? | 11:41 |
| thiago | evdev would be the preferred path, since that only requires a kernel driver | 11:41 |
| thiago | X.org would be "immune to changes" | 11:41 |
| rob_w | ^ agree | 11:41 |
| thiago | ZogG: that app is not made by Nokia | 11:41 |
| thiago | ZogG: whether the software maker decides to publish the app for more than one platform, it's their choice | 11:42 |
| rob_w | will i get Xorg dev and be able to roll my own image when i use the meego devkit ? | 11:42 |
| thiago | ZogG: now, what we (Nokia) want is that they do. And we're trying to provide the tools to do it. | 11:42 |
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| thiago | rob_w: for a device-creation SDK, yes | 11:42 |
| ZogG | but Nokia works with them, i know the story - when you ask dev nd they send you to ask Nokia, when you ask Nokia they send you to devs | 11:42 |
| thiago | rob_w: you can patch the source code of anything in meego and rebuild it. | 11:42 |
| rob_w | wonderfull | 11:43 |
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| * rob_w starts downloading | 11:43 | |
| thiago | ZogG: I can't comment on Nokia-partner relationships and don't even know what goes on in there | 11:44 |
| thiago | ZogG: what I can tell you is that we want as many apps as possible, on both platforms | 11:44 |
| ZogG | thnx | 11:44 |
| thiago | we want to make it easy for anyone to make apps for both devices | 11:44 |
| thiago | though, the latest article said "it's about quality, not quantity" | 11:44 |
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| rob_w | so it will be the normal way .. i get the sdk .. work blood and tears with it .. get some patchs and send them to the meego mailinglist ? | 11:45 |
| thiago | rob_w: no | 11:45 |
| thiago | rob_w: you send them upstream | 11:45 |
| rob_w | or does my comany need to be involved ? | 11:45 |
| thiago | if you modify the kernel, send to the LKML | 11:45 |
| thiago | if you modify X.org, send to xorg-devel | 11:45 |
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| thiago | if the patches are rejected, rework them | 11:45 |
| thiago | if they aren't accepted in a timely manner, that's another story. Then you can come to meego-dev and say "hey, meego is working on my device, this patch is required to work and is in the queue for upstream" | 11:46 |
| thiago | we don't want to maintain patches in meego | 11:46 |
| thiago | so those should be the exception, not the rule | 11:46 |
| pupnik_ | well said | 11:46 |
| rob_w | kk | 11:47 |
| rob_w | thiago, as you are one man involved .. how could my company become "one-on-the-list" of the official meego site ? | 11:48 |
| thiago | rob_w: that I don't know | 11:49 |
| X-Fade | rob_w: Contact LF? | 11:49 |
| rob_w | np thanks anyway for the quick answers | 11:49 |
| thiago | you should contact the Linux Foundation | 11:49 |
| rob_w | ah | 11:49 |
| ZogG | thiago, i sent email to the devs, let's see the answer =) | 11:49 |
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| rob_w | omg my touchscreen is working already .. what a joy | 11:56 |
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| ZogG | rob_w, what device? | 11:57 |
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| pipposanta | hi | 11:58 |
| rob_w | a slate tablet pc ... i dont wanna do commercials in here | 11:58 |
| pipposanta | when will the meego tablet alpha be released? | 11:59 |
| rob_w | how much diskspace will mego take when i install it as ext3 ? is 4GB quite enough ? | 11:59 |
| thiago | rob_w: btrfs is recommended | 12:00 |
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| rob_w | why is taht ? | 12:01 |
| thiago | I don't know | 12:01 |
| thiago | more modern, maybe | 12:01 |
| rob_w | thats ok .. i go for ext3 for now but thanks for the hint | 12:02 |
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| pipposanta | anyone knows when the meego tablet preview release will be out? | 12:03 |
| mirr0r | they say today, but nobody knows exact time/date | 12:04 |
| thiago | pipposanta: you've already asked that | 12:04 |
| rob_w | oh a tablet preview .. | 12:04 |
| rob_w | thats for me then :-) | 12:04 |
| pipposanta | will it be compatible with atom? | 12:04 |
| mirr0r | i expect not | 12:04 |
| rob_w | i bet ^ | 12:04 |
| rob_w | then they fail hard | 12:05 |
| thiago | the intel tablet pre-alpha you saw on youtube was, obviously, intel | 12:05 |
| pipposanta | good | 12:05 |
| thiago | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqeeQd-YNL0&feature=player_embedded | 12:05 |
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| mirr0r | i think today there will be a n900 version, and later on an atom | 12:05 |
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| rob_w | lets hope the installer doesnt destroy my existing partitions .. | 12:07 |
| thiago | mirr0r: n900 isn't a tablet | 12:07 |
| rob_w | lol | 12:10 |
| rob_w | that apple icon is real | 12:10 |
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| rob_w | damn the installtion sits at "installing bootloader" and doesnt finish | 12:13 |
| pupnik_ | i hope nokia delivers a real battery champion tablet | 12:14 |
| thiago | pupnik_: who said anything about a Nokia tablet? | 12:15 |
| pupnik_ | i do. they tried a netbook already | 12:16 |
| dnaumov | thiago: engadget ;) | 12:16 |
| pupnik_ | engadget does? | 12:16 |
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| thiago | this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/21/nokia-7-or-9-inch-meego-tablet-rumored-to-be-running-arm-in-q4/ ? | 12:17 |
| pupnik_ | oh :) | 12:17 |
| pupnik_ | why does nokia keep reading my mind and making devices i want | 12:17 |
| pupnik_ | :0 | 12:18 |
| thiago | note the content of the article, that the rumour is likely to be false | 12:18 |
| thiago | even engadget says so | 12:18 |
| thiago | and the device pictured is the same as the tablet shown by Intel -- I don't think Intel demonstrates ARM-based devices | 12:18 |
| pupnik_ | oh well then i should spec one for nokia :) | 12:18 |
| leinir | Somebody pulled that prediction out of a specific part of their arse known as "I would really like one of these" ;) | 12:19 |
| thiago | I would too | 12:20 |
| thiago | but I'll be happy with a 10" netbook with a touchscreen | 12:20 |
| thiago | those are already on the market | 12:20 |
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| leinir | i'd say a 10" convertible netbook with a wacom touchscreen... and 10 hours real battery life... | 12:21 |
| leinir | That makes it a device that'd get you through a day at school/work, without charging - and a day at a convention where it's in standby a lot | 12:21 |
| leinir | and the wacom surface would mean i could sell it to vast numbers of people i know ;) | 12:22 |
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| leinir | Forget cintiqs, just get one of these babies! ;) | 12:22 |
| thiago | http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/ideapad/s-series/s10-3t | 12:22 |
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| leinir | *nods* | 12:23 |
| leinir | But that doesn't have a wacom surface, right? | 12:24 |
| leinir | anyway, i must be gone - got a graduation ceremony to attend and such ;) | 12:24 |
| leinir | back later! | 12:24 |
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| prashanth | hello ? | 12:27 |
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| amjad | hello prashanth | 12:28 |
| rob_w | k i am up and running . | 12:28 |
| rob_w | but i cant find a Xorg.conf nor Xorg.0.log in the normal places | 12:29 |
| thiago | rob_w: configuration is guessed from hal | 12:29 |
| thiago | rob_w: you can write the Xorg.conf file to change the defaults | 12:29 |
| rob_w | right | 12:30 |
| rob_w | i found the log | 12:30 |
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| rob_w | ah isee alot moblin stuff runnign .. thats where it all went | 12:31 |
| slaine | thiago: the touchscreen stuff doesn't use HAL anymore | 12:31 |
| slaine | it's all udev now | 12:31 |
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| lbt | so there are a couple of us (me+ccooke) looking at how to handle ruby/gems in meego ... just FYI | 13:51 |
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| lcuk | lbt cool, i havent seen ccooke speaking for a while. where are you hiding out? | 13:52 |
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| lbt | #ruby | 13:52 |
| lbt | and other places | 13:53 |
| * lcuk giggles | 13:53 | |
| lbt | take a hit and pass it on ;) | 13:53 |
| lcuk | aww ;) not where i tohught it would be :p | 13:53 |
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| ccooke | lcuk: hiya :-) | 13:59 |
| lcuk | \o morning charles | 14:00 |
| lcuk | just :D | 14:00 |
| ccooke | indeed | 14:00 |
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| CosmoHill | http://goodwordsrightorder.com/?p=197 | 14:08 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 14:08 |
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| Kray | "Note: MeeGo will not work on non-SSSE3 CPUs" | 14:14 |
| Kray | what is the reason for this? | 14:14 |
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| kirma | kray: on non-technical level: intel targets meego specifically for atom CPUs (and "better") | 14:15 |
| Kray | kirma: and it does not have fallback for non-sse3 cpus? | 14:16 |
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| ccooke | Kray: it would require work on the toolchain, additional testing... | 14:17 |
| ccooke | basically, it's not in their interest to provide a fallback. | 14:17 |
| slaine | Kray, no, hnce why it saying it won't work on non-SSSE3 CPU's | 14:17 |
| CosmoHill | Kray: some things work on non-SSSE3 but not everything | 14:17 |
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| Kray | why i have feeling that sse3 is required is purely because of intel's marketing department... | 14:18 |
| CosmoHill | SSSE3 | 14:18 |
| CosmoHill | three 'S's | 14:18 |
| sx0n | (C) | 14:18 |
| CosmoHill | basically I've been told it's because intel have that hardwhere | 14:19 |
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| sx0n | nice that they are finally utilizing, i have always wondered why cpus have that :) | 14:19 |
| CosmoHill | it's like what I do. I develop for the hardwhere I have cos I can't afford other hardwhere | 14:20 |
| slaine | Kray, we are assured that ssse3 makes a huge difference for Atoms. | 14:21 |
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| slaine | No numbers to back that up though | 14:21 |
| CosmoHill | hey slaine | 14:22 |
| slaine | Hey CosmoHill | 14:22 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/cc/cluster1.jpg :) | 14:22 |
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| CosmoHill | my work so far | 14:22 |
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| CosmoHill | one master and two slaves | 14:25 |
| CosmoHill | I'd like to thing that I can get distCC working on that and recompile meego | 14:25 |
| w00t_ | CosmoHill: read up on icecream.. its scheduler is a useful improvement over distcc | 14:26 |
| CosmoHill | thanks | 14:26 |
| CosmoHill | I will | 14:26 |
| CosmoHill | I really need to write up everything I've done so far | 14:26 |
| Termana | CosmoHill, I have found out your secret. | 14:26 |
| Termana | CosmoHill, Secretly, you an a big apple fanboy! - http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/audio-work.jpg | 14:27 |
| Termana | your a big* | 14:27 |
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| Termana | :P | 14:27 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 14:27 |
| CosmoHill | that was my desk when I was doing audio work | 14:27 |
| CosmoHill | My powerbook is my every day computer | 14:28 |
| CosmoHill | the powermacs are either dead or used for learning linux | 14:28 |
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| CosmoHill | hey dazo | 14:28 |
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| dazo | CosmoHill: hey | 14:28 |
| CosmoHill | oh that's right, I was making tea about an hour ago | 14:29 |
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| CosmoHill | dazo: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/rhel6-nvidia.png :) | 14:32 |
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| CosmoHill | wb dazo | 14:42 |
| dazo | gah ... freenode is really crappy today .... other irc servers like oftc is rock solid | 14:42 |
| CosmoHill | dazo: what server are you on? I'm on "holmes" | 14:43 |
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| dazo | CosmoHill: kornbluth, jordan and gibson usually ... I got a proxy which reconnects me to the next one automatically | 14:48 |
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| CosmoHill | wb | 14:50 |
| CosmoHill | ...again | 14:50 |
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| CosmoHill | my desk is so clean :D | 14:52 |
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| CosmoHill | hey luck | 15:24 |
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| night_amir | русские есть? )) | 15:44 |
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| CosmoHill | night_amir: maybe, maybe not | 15:46 |
| night_amir | )) | 15:46 |
| CosmoHill | (the only thing I understood was the ? and the smile) | 15:46 |
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| wazd | CosmoHill: he asked if there are any russians in here | 15:51 |
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| unkletom | yo | 15:54 |
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| unkletom | where is meego download for n900 | 15:54 |
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| unkletom | wasnt it suppose to come out on the 30th of june | 15:54 |
| CosmoHill | i'll tell you if I can 1. find it and 2. can't get to it within 5 clicks | 15:54 |
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| * unkletom slaps CosmoHill with Ozzy Osbourne | 15:54 | |
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| CosmoHill | unkletom: took me two clicks | 15:55 |
| CosmoHill | a three click would start the download | 15:55 |
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| CosmoHill | dazo: your connection sucks | 15:55 |
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| unkletom | http://meego.com/downloads/releases/meego-core-software-platform | 15:56 |
| unkletom | is this the new download? | 15:56 |
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| CosmoHill | that's the one | 15:56 |
| unkletom | man | 15:56 |
| slaine | The handset ux isn't out yet, which is what I think you're looking for | 15:56 |
| unkletom | this doesnt seem user friendly | 15:56 |
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| slaine | the 30th of june isn't over yet though | 15:57 |
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| unkletom | is the install going to be user friendly? | 15:57 |
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| slaine | we'll find out when they release it | 15:57 |
| unkletom | ok | 15:58 |
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| slaine | now you know as much as we do | 15:58 |
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| * CosmoHill dances cos his french family have arrived :D | 15:59 | |
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| X-Fade | Any reason why the meego-packaging list archives are private? | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-packaging | 16:00 |
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| w00t_ | X-Fade: bug already got filed on it | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | Ok ;) | 16:01 |
| w00t_ | #3634 | 16:01 |
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| rawtee | hi | 16:13 |
| amjad | hi rawtee | 16:13 |
| rawtee | dos skype work on meego? | 16:13 |
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| rawtee | does | 16:14 |
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| rawtee | and does it support major video formats? | 16:14 |
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| GAN900 | rawtee, little early for questions like that | 16:15 |
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| GAN900 | Don't let the idiots in marketing fool you with the 1.0 designation | 16:15 |
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| slaine | started watching the B5 movies again yesterday, ah, good stuff | 16:16 |
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| rawtee1 | sorry got disconnected | 16:17 |
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| rawtee1 | so this os is nowhere near ready to be used as a windows replacement? | 16:17 |
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| Termana | I suggest you wait a while to let the project mature before asking yourself if its an anything-replacement | 16:19 |
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| * Aard thinks he missed the "replace windows" item on the roadmap | 16:19 | |
| Termana | Aard, :P | 16:19 |
| GAN900 | rawtee1, well, first, it's not intended to replace Windows. | 16:20 |
| Termana | Aard, number one bug in Ubuntu is "gain more marketshare than Windows" :P (I believe) | 16:20 |
| Aard | Termana: yeah, I've seen that long time ago. prefer to stay away from ubuntu, though | 16:20 |
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| unkletom | where is meego for n900 | 16:41 |
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| unkletom | quite "meeger" | 16:41 |
| andre__ | unkletom: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/ ? | 16:43 |
| unkletom | nono | 16:43 |
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| unkletom | there is supposed to be a userfriendly n900 meego install today the 30th | 16:43 |
| unkletom | http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/nokia-pre-alpha-release-of-meego-for-handsets-coming-june-30th/ | 16:44 |
| slaine | unkletom: didn't you ask about this an hour ago ? | 16:44 |
| unkletom | so maybe there are updates? | 16:44 |
| slaine | 30th isn't over yet, so keep an eye out | 16:45 |
| unkletom | well | 16:45 |
| unkletom | business hours almost over | 16:45 |
| slaine | for who ? | 16:45 |
| Jaffa | unkletom: "user friendly" and "first release" rarely go hand in hand | 16:45 |
| slaine | US West coast hasn't even woken up yet | 16:45 |
| Jartza | where does it state it's supposed to be user friendly? :) | 16:45 |
| unkletom | Nokia is finnish based | 16:45 |
| unkletom | so | 16:45 |
| Jartza | I don't know too many userfriendly-pre-alphas | 16:46 |
| sx0n | slaine, managers. their work days ends at <1600 | 16:46 |
| X-Fade | unkletom: even in Finland the day is not over ;) | 16:46 |
| slaine | Yeah, I'm a manager, I know :) | 16:46 |
| unkletom | I'm a oil sheikh | 16:46 |
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| w00t_ | "userfriendly" is also not what I would describe an alpha release as | 16:46 |
| X-Fade | Cool, send some my way then :) | 16:46 |
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| unkletom | and it's not like they are putting finishing touches on whatever they are releasing | 16:48 |
| unkletom | quite a meager meego release | 16:48 |
| Jartza | so, nokia is finnish based, but nokia has offices all over the world | 16:48 |
| Jartza | and meego isn't just nokia | 16:48 |
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| X-Fade | unkletom: Afaik it will be handset UX day 0. Which means code is submitted to the repo? | 16:48 |
| unkletom | yeah im sure a distruction center in the USA or w/e is going to relaease it | 16:49 |
| unkletom | distribution* | 16:49 |
| X-Fade | Not a release ready to be flashed to your device. | 16:49 |
| slaine | that's not coming til meego 1.1 | 16:49 |
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| Jartza | UX destruction center, yeah | 16:49 |
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| slaine | sounds about right actually ;) | 16:49 |
| Jartza | yup :) | 16:50 |
| unkletom | fucking twats | 16:50 |
| unkletom | lol | 16:50 |
| unkletom | always full of shit you nerds on irc | 16:50 |
| unkletom | dont know shit | 16:50 |
| Termana | X-Fade, day 1 | 16:50 |
| unkletom | never able to give a straight answer | 16:50 |
| unkletom | lolz | 16:50 |
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| X-Fade | Termana: Right, well coders start to count from 0 ;) | 16:51 |
| Jartza | but I do know Schitt, does that count? | 16:51 |
| * GAN900 wonders when we'll see the first 335i running MeeGo. | 16:51 | |
| Termana | X-Fade, yes I know that :P But they are calling it Day 1 | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | Termana: Then now it is day 0 ;) | 16:51 |
| Termana | :P | 16:51 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: From how Quim's described it, it will at least be runnable on *something* | 16:52 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Sure if you compile it yourself? | 16:52 |
| Jartza | unkletom: well, straight answer is that you most probably won't get flashable userfriendly image of meego for N900 today. | 16:52 |
| Jartza | unkletom: any more satisfied? :) | 16:53 |
| Termana | Let me learn you something | 16:53 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Netbook UX was runnable on Day 1 | 16:53 |
| w00t_ | Jaffa: technically, the mtouch stuff is runnable *now* if you sacrifice the right amount of chickens to get it working | 16:53 |
| Termana | Join #meego-arm and you would already know whats happening | 16:53 |
| w00t_ | (though I expect a lot more than that) | 16:53 |
| Termana | w00t_, more chickens? | 16:54 |
| Termana | :P | 16:54 |
| Jaffa | w00t_: Indeed; although javispedro pointed out recently that "running on scratchbox" was one of the chiekns | 16:54 |
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| w00t_ | Jaffa: not necessarily, I ran bits and pieces on my laptop a while ago | 16:54 |
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| Jaffa | w00t_: Well, more specifically Maemo 5 and N900/ARM chickens weren't compatible ;-) | 16:56 |
| Jaffa | (FWICT) | 16:56 |
| w00t_ | Jaffa: ah, right. bit of a different kettle of fish :-P | 16:57 |
| unkletom | these guys dont know anything. if you are the nabs that are actually going to make apps or w/e for the meego community its going to fail bad | 16:57 |
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| Kaadlajk | ":D" | 16:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | wow | 17:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | what a dick. | 17:02 |
| chakie_work | indeed | 17:02 |
| w00t_ | trolololol | 17:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | please dear god no | 17:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | don't stick that back in my he...AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :P | 17:03 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 goes to bang his head against a brick wall | 17:03 | |
| Termana | AHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE | 17:03 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 17:03 |
| Termana | oh oh oh. Lo lo lo lo lo lo lo. Ha ha haha | 17:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | it really depresses me | 17:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | this new crowd of "users" | 17:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | this prevalent sense of "entitlement" | 17:05 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, based on how Quim's described it every N900 owner will be running it or licking Nokia's boots to own the N9 come November. . . . | 17:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | of, "it's open" therefore "it's free" therefore "we deserve it." | 17:05 |
| Termana | GAN900, seems like an important OR | 17:06 |
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| w00t_ | TSCHAKeee2: my theory is to just ignore the trolls and they'll go back to the bridge they belong under | 17:06 |
| w00t_ | (and if that doesn't work, give them a bit of a kick in the pants to help them) | 17:07 |
| * lcuk gives w00t_ a switch kick in the pants just to feel better | 17:07 | |
| w00t_ | ow | 17:07 |
| lcuk | :D | 17:07 |
| w00t_ | i suppose i did trololol earlier ;) | 17:08 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | thank you | 17:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it takes DAYS for that song to leave my head | 17:09 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 17:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Eduard Khil would have been a good bad guy for a mind thriller :P | 17:10 |
| FunkyPenguin | um anyone know where the meego chromium srpm has gone? i cant find it on repo.meggo.com | 17:13 |
| * lcuk has been humming tune for roobard & custard all day and i have no idea who infected my brain with it today. | 17:13 | |
| FunkyPenguin | nm found it - looking in the wrong folder | 17:14 |
| * GAN900 finds it unlikely | 17:15 | |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: And now we've got (at least) 3 fora in which to discuss Harmattan. Woot! | 17:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | mlfoster: ping | 18:25 |
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| slaine | ok, time to commute | 18:25 |
| mlfoster | timeless_mbp: hello! | 18:25 |
| slaine | I'll try and catch you guys later for the celebrations^H^HTSG | 18:26 |
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| * timeless_mbp wonders what people are celebrating | 18:26 | |
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| w00t_ | hopefully, a lot more stuff being pushed into the open (and kept there? :)) | 18:28 |
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| * trip0 wakes up | 18:30 | |
| trip0 | push into the open? | 18:30 |
| trip0 | uh oh, better get busy | 18:30 |
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| GAN900 | w00t_, don't jinx it! | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | This really is idiotic how we have so much talk about open and so little to back it up. | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | At least they weren't trying to pretend with Maemo. | 18:40 |
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| w00t_ | the coming weeks will be quite telling I think | 18:41 |
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| paxl | How work the liveos filesystem ? | 18:45 |
| paxl | how can it be a ext3 filesystem if its contained into a squashfs :S | 18:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://github.com/nloko/banshee/graphs/clones | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | helps? | 19:04 |
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| * timeless_mbp decides it's git://git.gnome.org/banshee | 19:06 | |
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| DawnFoster | and the handset code is out: http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/meego-handset-project-day-1-here | 19:34 |
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| GAN900 | Hopefully this is the last of the big reveals. . . . | 19:34 |
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| GAN900 | "Subset" | 19:35 |
| GAN900 | Apparently not. | 19:35 |
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| GAN900 | They turned it into an iPhone. . . . | 19:38 |
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| jausmus | GAN900: but you can re-theme the Handset UX ;) | 19:41 |
| GAN900 | jausmus, that doesn't change the fact that they're borrowing all of their UI concept from Apple. | 19:43 |
| Myrtti | I looked at the SMS thing and thought of Android | 19:43 |
| Myrtti | of course that is probably an iphone copy | 19:43 |
| Myrtti | oh well. | 19:44 |
| Myrtti | horses bark and caravan moves on | 19:44 |
| Myrtti | horses? | 19:44 |
| Myrtti | meant dogs. | 19:44 |
| * Myrtti considers switching her allergy medicines | 19:44 | |
| Myrtti | also: haha, corrected myself before anyone else | 19:45 |
| Myrtti | neener | 19:45 |
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| slaine | So, it's out, yay | 19:46 |
| slaine | well done all involved | 19:46 |
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| microlith | hahahaha | 19:46 |
| microlith | handset image comes out and it's x86 | 19:46 |
| * microlith applauds | 19:47 | |
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| Aard | microlith: what did you expect? | 19:47 |
| microlith | ARM | 19:47 |
| w00t_ | did you click on the ARM link, then? | 19:47 |
| Myrtti | hahahahaha | 19:47 |
| microlith | you know, hardware people actually have | 19:47 |
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| microlith | what arm link | 19:47 |
| DawnFoster | the N900 download isn't quite available yet | 19:47 |
| * microlith shrungs | 19:48 | |
| w00t_ | I haven't looked, just got back, but given the meego-arm people have been working on this, I find it hard to imagine it doesn't exist | 19:48 |
| DawnFoster | I don't have the details but maybe someone from Nokia can chime in | 19:48 |
| * microlith relearns how to type | 19:48 | |
| Aard | microlith: well, intel does not do arm ;) | 19:48 |
| slaine | not anymore, anyway | 19:48 |
| * slaine remembers the Xscale chips | 19:49 | |
| microlith | is it even possible to buy an aava mobile handset? | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, they're all on Summer vaction. | 19:49 |
| DawnFoster | microlith: not yet. | 19:49 |
| Aard | DawnFoster: I don't see anyone from the n900-team around here. I guess you'll se an image soon enough, but not today | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | Ha | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | Probably once they get back from break. | 19:50 |
| slaine | they've all be uber busy | 19:50 |
| DawnFoster | GAN900: maybe:) I know they were working on the arm stuff, but not sure why it isn't available. | 19:50 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: they aren't all away, #meego-arm has had people around working today | 19:50 |
| Aard | DawnFoster: n900 is just a toy that won't be supported with meego. aava-like stuff probably will be | 19:51 |
| slaine | lol | 19:51 |
| * Myrtti goes to brew coffee and tea for everyone and brings the cheesecake | 19:52 | |
| GAN900 | Well, it was nice hoping for a semi-open alternative to Android and iOS | 19:52 |
| Surfa | oh well | 19:52 |
| Surfa | http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/meego-handset-project-day-1-here | 19:52 |
| Surfa | sorry | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Looks like we've just got a clone of iOS with most of the same privacy concerns as Android. | 19:52 |
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| slaine | geez, naysaying already ? | 19:53 |
| Aard | DawnFoster: just checked, the repos for arm have been published as well, so you can try building your own image | 19:54 |
| Myrtti | slaine: criticism isn't allowed? | 19:54 |
| microlith | slaine: I think the naysaying has been going on for a while, with no one acting to counter it | 19:54 |
| w00t_ | Myrtti: criticism is one thing, panning the entire platform based on a UI release is another | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | slaine, seen? http://maemo.org/community/council/nokia_response_to_mynokia_subscription_in_pr1-2/ | 19:54 |
| slaine | I'm just surprised at the negativity. Day1 is supposed to be an appy occasion | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | w00t_, color me burnt out. | 19:55 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: I know, and I respect your position, I just don't agree with it | 19:55 |
| slaine | GAN900: no I haven't, should I care seeing as I'm not a maemo person or an n900 owner ? | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | slaine, might be if the big reveal mentality weren't a spit in the face of the openess mantra. | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | slaine, as Nokia's involved in MeeGo, it affects it too. | 19:56 |
| slaine | well, you know as well as I do that I'm damn opposed to the big reveal mentality | 19:56 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps pointed me to a hildon-desktop port sans libhildon, I'm still tempted to find it, update it to latest h-d and get it running on meego | 19:56 |
| slaine | and we should shout as loud as we can about things like that | 19:56 |
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| GAN900 | slaine, unfortunately nobody's listening | 19:57 |
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| slaine | listening, they sure are. willing to change completely, I have my doubts | 19:57 |
| GAN900 | Or change at all. | 19:57 |
| GAN900 | But whatever | 19:57 |
| slaine | Oh come on | 19:57 |
| Aard | GAN900: wait some more, and you'll have many interesting open components in meego | 19:58 |
| GAN900 | I guess we just have to wait | 19:58 |
| GAN900 | More | 19:58 |
| GAN900 | Haha | 19:58 |
| slaine | waiting for shiny things is hard | 19:58 |
| GAN900 | Waiting. Isn't that the story we've been hearing since 2005? | 19:58 |
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| Aard | GAN900: big dinosaurs need time to change direction ;) | 19:58 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: what are your primary concerns now, realistically? | 19:59 |
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| Aard | GAN900: we're currently in the process of pushing quite a few interesting middleware libraries from nokia closed to opensource | 19:59 |
| slaine | w00t_: my guess is that he can't run Handset UX on his n900 immediately | 20:00 |
| GAN900 | slaine, yeah. . . . | 20:00 |
| GAN900 | Clearly I'm THAT guy | 20:00 |
| microlith | slaine: I'm sure it has more to do with Nokia's behavior and the insistence on doing things behind closed doors | 20:01 |
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| slaine | well, it's understandable, you've had 2 false starts months apart from your perspective | 20:01 |
| w00t_ | I wouldn't pidgeonhole anyone, hence why I'm asking to make sure that things are clear :) | 20:01 |
| microlith | slaine: it's also more than a little amusing that the initial handset image is for hardware no one has | 20:01 |
| slaine | Nokia's team of meego developers have probably been more open about they're doing than anyone, so I'm not sure that's got legs as an argument | 20:01 |
| lcuk | microlith, hmm curious? isnt the handset software mostly the one mobline was showing off for a while | 20:01 |
| GAN900 | w00t_, numerous and difficult to list on a thumb keyboard | 20:02 |
| Aard | microlith: taking proprietary source and getting it into a shape that can be published without infringing on 3rd parties takes time and can't be done in the open. | 20:02 |
| microlith | lcuk: that was an LG handset that got cancelled | 20:02 |
| lcuk | same software though? | 20:02 |
| GAN900 | and mostly the same stuff that's been a problem since day 1 | 20:02 |
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| slaine | there was Moblin 2 for MIDS | 20:02 |
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| slaine | which looked very similar to the theme used in Handset UX | 20:02 |
| GAN900 | Little attempt to engage or leverage skills and experience from the Maemo Community | 20:02 |
| GAN900 | Attempts from our side are met with silence or stop motion | 20:02 |
| microlith | Aard: being clear and explicit about what was being done and why would have been -really- informative, but obviously no one with the capacity to do so bothered | 20:03 |
| slaine | but that was all done in Clutter, where as we're led to believe this was implemented with Qt | 20:03 |
| GAN900 | Lots of talk about open, little to back it uP | 20:03 |
| slaine | But isn't that point of a Day 1 | 20:03 |
| GAN900 | With the tired old refrain of waiting, waiting, waiting. | 20:03 |
| slaine | it's now open | 20:03 |
| lcuk | slaine, well the source would help | 20:03 |
| lcuk | is that around? | 20:03 |
| GAN900 | Not all of it, according to the blog post. | 20:03 |
| Aard | microlith: possibly, I have to admit that I didn't follow meego from the outside | 20:04 |
| lcuk | since this is reference implementation as we are led to believe | 20:04 |
| slaine | certainly the "pay no attention to the team behind the curtain" approach is infuriating | 20:04 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: which bit? | 20:04 |
| GAN900 | Generally, nothing around MeeGo leaves me anything but drained and frustrated. | 20:04 |
| w00t_ | (granted, I skim-read) | 20:04 |
| w00t_ | also: just mailed meego-dev about the ARM image stuff :) | 20:04 |
| microlith | Aard: indeed, perhaps more should look at it from that perspective | 20:04 |
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| lcuk | i see no links to the source? :$ am i just being blind | 20:05 |
| GAN900 | w00t_, only parts of the reference set were released. | 20:05 |
| trip0 | lcuk, see meego.gitorious | 20:05 |
| Aard | microlith: should and can are two different things, thogh | 20:05 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: curious. I think that is something that needs following up on too :) | 20:06 |
| microlith | Aard: they may be, but don't go saying "we're open and community based!" and then completely ignore the community that shows up | 20:06 |
| * w00t_ goes to mail again | 20:06 | |
| lcuk | trip0, cool beans | 20:06 |
| GAN900 | I can't really point to one thing that's broken in MeeGo and causing all of the problems | 20:06 |
| lcuk | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-photo/trees/master for one | 20:06 |
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| GAN900 | But when a project is leaving so many enthusiastic people burnt out and bitter, something needs to change. | 20:07 |
| Aard | microlith: wait, I only said "it's quite open and getting better", nothing about community-based ;) | 20:07 |
| suihkulokki | afaik the problem is that everyone in the community who actually contributes gets hired by nokia or someone related | 20:07 |
| GAN900 | slaine, and you don't see that if you're not listening to Maemo. | 20:07 |
| microlith | Aard: well if it'as a one-sided affair, I see no reason anyone not part of nokia or intel should care | 20:07 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, its there and technically buildable | 20:07 |
| slaine | slaine, Well, coming from Moblin, I've had almost exactly the same frustrations | 20:07 |
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| microlith | sure way to kill a platform there | 20:07 |
| mikeleib | The source code is out there | 20:07 |
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| slaine | s/slaine, /GAN900, / | 20:08 |
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| infobot | slaine meant: GAN900, Well, coming from Moblin, I've had almost exactly the same frustrations | 20:08 |
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| mikeleib | The integration work is being done for two platforms, you are free to take the source and enable more platforms. | 20:08 |
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| *** everybody is now known as sar3th | 20:09 | |
| Aard | microlith: I personally think announcement/release of stuff was somewhat to early. it'll be soon in a shape where you can take that stuff and get it working on $platform_of_choice | 20:09 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: mailed meego-dev on both points, so.. let's see what response we get there | 20:09 |
| Aard | I don't see meego as that `ready to run on all crap' distribution (though that's just my personal opinion) | 20:09 |
| microlith | the lack of ability to "run on all crap" is really secondary | 20:10 |
| lcuk | i am amazed at how fast people code! | 20:10 |
| lcuk | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-photo | 20:10 |
| lcuk | repository started yesterday | 20:10 |
| lcuk | and full of code today :D | 20:10 |
| trip0 | lcuk, lol | 20:10 |
| trip0 | "magic" | 20:10 |
| lcuk | fingers must be burning | 20:10 |
| Aard | lcuk: internal sources usually get imported without revision history | 20:11 |
| lcuk | yeah thats a bit of a shame | 20:11 |
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| trip0 | well, for a person who's maintained a few of his own pet OSS projects, i usually write a bunch of code, get it working, and then open source it | 20:11 |
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| * slaine goes to read w00t_'s emails and get some foodage | 20:12 | |
| trip0 | "hello world" isn't a very open source project | 20:12 |
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| Aard | lcuk: legal reasons, if you publish the history you need to make sure that you really can publish the complete history, which takes "somewhat" longer | 20:12 |
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| GAN900 | Compiling MeeGo's problems in one place might be useful. | 20:12 |
| lcuk | aard, im not complaining, im poking fun :p | 20:12 |
| w00t_ | same thing happened with Qt when it was open sourced on that note | 20:12 |
| * lcuk is very pleased to see it here :) | 20:13 | |
| w00t_ | qt-history has a full history from the start of Qt (so, years..), but isn't public | 20:13 |
| sabotage | slaine | certainly the "pay no attention to the team behind the "curtain" approach is infuriating | 20:13 |
| lcuk | i would like to see it on my n900 | 20:13 |
| sabotage | you have no idea ;) | 20:13 |
| lcuk | GAN900, bugs.meego.com ;) | 20:13 |
| mikeleib | if full history was published, then you'd be able to peel back the history get a proprietary version | 20:13 |
| Aard | lcuk: good luck, best shot is trying to boot from sd as the images are, well, somewhat bigger than the maemo5-images | 20:13 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, they're much bigger than that. :) | 20:13 |
| lcuk | mikeleib, a changelog would be handy to see how development went and where sticking points were | 20:13 |
| mikeleib | it is open source starting now. Yesterday it was proprietary | 20:13 |
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| lcuk | Aard, not an issue really | 20:14 |
| slaine | it can be open source and not public you know | 20:14 |
| mikeleib | a changelog would reference commits that are no longer in the repos | 20:14 |
| lcuk | its getting an image in the first place | 20:14 |
| jsa- | any brave souls making an image for N900 before the TMO people flashes theirs with the Aava image or the kickstart file? :) | 20:14 |
| lcuk | me ponders | 20:14 |
| lcuk | / | 20:14 |
| Aard | lcuk: in that case, everything you need to give it a try is available. | 20:14 |
| GAN900 | jsa-, nobody knows where it is. | 20:14 |
| GAN900 | Supposedly there should be one. | 20:14 |
| lcuk | ill see what stskeeps is upto once he comes backonline | 20:14 |
| slaine | lcuk: he's away isn't he ? | 20:15 |
| slaine | I know he said he was away for when the release was likely to happen | 20:15 |
| lcuk | sure but he has his n810 or whatever devie he carries now | 20:15 |
| jsa- | GAN900: afaiu there is no | 20:15 |
| jsa- | there should be everything to build it though | 20:15 |
| jsa- | i'm referring to the conversation on #meego-arm | 20:16 |
| jsa- | earlier today | 20:16 |
| Aard | lcuk: best bet for now is to use latest aava-kickstart as base, and pick the missing bits from the latest n900 ks file | 20:16 |
| * GAN900 boggles at a 1.1 release that's not ready for consumption | 20:16 | |
| lcuk | :) | 20:16 |
| GAN900 | Gotta love idiots in marketing. | 20:16 |
| jsa- | there should be a kickstart file for N900 in tablets-dev or whatever it is | 20:16 |
| slaine | will there be a simulator for handset dev work me wonders | 20:17 |
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| DawnFoster | there is a kickstart file for N900 | 20:17 |
| slaine | I'm not forking out for an n900 or an Avavaaaa whatever it's called phone | 20:17 |
| Aard | jsa-: I don't think there is one for the handset-ux, and as you need more stuff to get the handset-ux working than for the n900 just changing the aava-file is easier | 20:17 |
| DawnFoster | they just updated this page with the n900 info: http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0.80.8/meego-handset-day1-developer-preview | 20:18 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php is supposedly related | 20:18 |
| DawnFoster | Aard: I don't think that's the preferred method | 20:18 |
| lcuk | slaine, meego avavuvuzela edition will be out soon :D | 20:18 |
| slaine | lol | 20:18 |
| sabotage | GAN900: "Day 1" is not, technically, a release AFAIK | 20:19 |
| DawnFoster | that's true - this is for developers and is not a release | 20:19 |
| trip0 | it's a preview! | 20:19 |
| sabotage | it's similar to the (former) libdui "tech preview | 20:19 |
| DawnFoster | it's an early version of what will eventually become 1.1 | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | We probably shouldn't be at 1.1 then | 20:20 |
| sabotage | who is at 1.1? | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | Considering everything is still in alpha/beta | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | Or 1.0 | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | Same difference | 20:20 |
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| DawnFoster | the 1.0 branch had the 1.0 version of core / netbooks | 20:20 |
| Kray | why version number is 1.0 if this isn't release anyway | 20:20 |
| Aard | DawnFoster: I don't think there's another option at the moment | 20:20 |
| trip0 | Kray 1.0 came out months ago | 20:21 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, since the avaa isnt out yet and got canned, who exactly are the aava images for? | 20:21 |
| DawnFoster | this is common in open source projects. We talk about release numbers of what it will be released under. | 20:21 |
| sabotage | not same diff... Day 1 is 1.0 + handset code being released... finally! | 20:21 |
| slaine | but it's not 1.0 | 20:21 |
| slaine | that was in may | 20:21 |
| trip0 | right | 20:22 |
| slaine | the code base has moved on in prep for 1.1 | 20:22 |
| DawnFoster | there are a bunch of people with pre-release aava hardware from Intel | 20:22 |
| sabotage | that's why it's not a *release* | 20:22 |
| ml-mobile | heh | 20:22 |
| sabotage | all this code is based off 1.0 | 20:22 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, can they be obtained outside intel? | 20:22 |
| slaine | exactly, it's like Fedora Rawhide or Debian Unstable | 20:22 |
| mikeleib | it's not a release also because it is not supported. It will not have backported bugfixes, etc. | 20:22 |
| ml-mobile | lcuk: In Q3 | 20:22 |
| anaZ | its a nolease | 20:22 |
| Aard | DawnFoster: the ks file linked to on that site is the old "xterm only" one. you really can't use anything more than the few packages for the handset-ux kickstart | 20:22 |
| sabotage | it's called "tip of tree" ;) | 20:22 |
| DawnFoster | you can't buy the aava platforms, but Intel has shipped them to a bunch of partners who are developing for them | 20:23 |
| slaine | It's the Future (TM) | 20:23 |
| lcuk | ml-mobile, mmm but it was cancelled wasnt it? | 20:23 |
| GAN900 | 1.0 had no UI | 20:23 |
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| GAN900 | That's not much of a 1.0 | 20:23 |
| slaine | anaZ: will there be a simulator for us non aava hardware owning peeps ? | 20:23 |
| ml-mobile | the LG was cancelled | 20:23 |
| trip0 | GAN900, 1.0 means a lot of different things to a lot of differnt people | 20:23 |
| trip0 | it means almost nothing in the open source world | 20:23 |
| trip0 | IMHO | 20:23 |
| ml-mobile | Aava is still taking preorders | 20:23 |
| DawnFoster | Aard: I'm not sure exactly what is in that file | 20:23 |
| GAN900 | sabotage, trust me, I understand the release process. :) I just don't agree with calling ANY of this stuff 1.x | 20:23 |
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| DawnFoster | it would be awesome if we had someone from Nokia here to answer questions. | 20:24 |
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| sabotage | nobody did GAN900 | 20:24 |
| sabotage | they called it "Day 1" | 20:24 |
| sabotage | tip of tree | 20:24 |
| sabotage | rawhide | 20:24 |
| trip0 | sabotage, he's referring to the 1.0 from may | 20:24 |
| sabotage | call it what you like | 20:24 |
| GAN900 | sabotage, ANY not just Handse. :) | 20:24 |
| GAN900 | t | 20:24 |
| sabotage | but just dumping code was not enough | 20:24 |
| sabotage | so we made images | 20:24 |
| lcuk | ok, technically the nokia sdk beta is out which should include simulator | 20:24 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, that's what I've been saying since 2005. | 20:24 |
| sabotage | and now you want to complain about that too? | 20:24 |
| slaine | damn it, I probably won't be available for the TSG tonight | 20:25 |
| lcuk | technically i should be able to bung some of the meego apps there i think? | 20:25 |
| * GAN900 sighs | 20:25 | |
| slaine | just remembered I've baby sitting duties | 20:25 |
| GAN900 | sabotage, nevermind. | 20:25 |
| Aard | DawnFoster: well, have a look at it ;) it'll give you an image which boots into an xterm. you need the package groups for handset-ux, and some script in the post sections to create a working image. which is only present in the aava-file. so, just take this, throw out aava-only-stuff, and include the n900-specific packages | 20:25 |
| sabotage | GAN900: fair enough, and I understand the general frustrations | 20:25 |
| sabotage | even being on the inside | 20:25 |
| GAN900 | Discussions in here so quickly descend to accusations of whining, trolling or both. | 20:25 |
| GAN900 | Not super productive, I think. | 20:26 |
| sabotage | this is the 4th time I personally have tried to get our handset code out the door in two years | 20:26 |
| lcuk | well you got the code out | 20:26 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:26 |
| * sabotage nods | 20:26 | |
| lcuk | congratulations :D | 20:26 |
| sabotage | and grins | 20:26 |
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| sabotage | and needs a pint! | 20:27 |
| lcuk | indeedy | 20:27 |
| mikeleib | trust us. working inside is not easier than working outside. | 20:27 |
| lcuk | now all we need to do is see it running :p | 20:27 |
| sabotage | yeah | 20:27 |
| * auke cheers for sabotage and mikeleib | 20:27 | |
| lcuk | who in intel has an aava and a video recorder (i know those are rare) | 20:27 |
| trip0 | lcuk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs | 20:27 |
| sabotage | I can't help much with the "running" part | 20:27 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: there is a .. see that | 20:27 |
| * sabotage does not control hardware targets | 20:27 | |
| GAN900 | mikeleib, unfortunately so many lose perspective. | 20:27 |
| auke | lcuk: what would you need video'd? | 20:27 |
| * mikeleib has an aava | 20:28 | |
| * Aard too | 20:28 | |
| * mikeleib does not have a video camera | 20:28 | |
| auke | I can take hi-def video at home | 20:28 |
| Nils^ | hey, owning an n900. i bet you answered this a ton of times now: I know 1.1 is Day1 but I am so eager to try it out! Anyone actually installed it on an n900 and can phone and send/receive sms with it and says: "yeah, its pre-release, but for an experienced linux user its not so bad..." | 20:28 |
| auke | with my nikon | 20:28 |
| lcuk | auke, interested in scrolling and panning speed especially | 20:28 |
| lcuk | theres a rather high barrier i expect ;) | 20:28 |
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| yaosiang | Nils^, I would like to know the ans to your question as well | 20:29 |
| mikeleib | it scrolls fairly well. The difficult part is really the touch screen is a little jumpy. That gives the false impression that the scrolling speed is really poor | 20:29 |
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| sabotage | speaking specifically to "phone and send/receive sms" well, that would require an actually working modem driver, sadly | 20:29 |
| sabotage | again, out'a my control | 20:29 |
| mikeleib | getting touch working really well is something that takes a lot of tuning and work. We haven't done that yet | 20:29 |
| sabotage | other powers make platform Si descisions | 20:29 |
| lcuk | mikeleib, auke this is why i mention it http://liqbase.net/20100626_005.mp4 | 20:29 |
| Nils^ | yaosiang: The question is how to try it out safely. | 20:30 |
| lcuk | mikeleib, humm touch broke? why | 20:30 |
| slaine | so, is this definitely using the meego touch framework, formerly known as dui ? | 20:30 |
| Nils^ | sabotage: so the n900 version is only for wlan and offline tasks? | 20:30 |
| sabotage | slaine: yes! | 20:30 |
| trip0 | slaine, yep | 20:30 |
| slaine | cool | 20:30 |
| * mikeleib wonders if his videoplayer has teh codecs for mp3 | 20:30 | |
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| mikeleib | s/3/4/ | 20:31 |
| sabotage | Nils^: I can't speak to N900... I don't have one to test with | 20:31 |
| slaine | looks just like the Mx theme on the netbook, good job | 20:31 |
| lcuk | mikeleib, mp4 | 20:31 |
| lcuk | ;) | 20:31 |
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| sabotage | slaine: designed by same designers ;) | 20:31 |
| * mikeleib sees video | 20:31 | |
| slaine | nedrichards, take a bow | 20:31 |
| auke | what is that a video of? | 20:31 |
| mikeleib | meh. using a stylus | 20:31 |
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| trip0 | lcuk, what hardware is that? | 20:32 |
| lcuk | mikeleib, n900 | 20:32 |
| lcuk | errr trip0 | 20:32 |
| Nils^ | sabotage: so you don't know what "Hardware adaptation support for Intel Atom-based handset (Moorestown) and ARM-based Nokia N900" means? | 20:32 |
| auke | ah | 20:32 |
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| trip0 | lcuk, is that an mtf app? | 20:32 |
| wazd | looks like I've returned just in time :) | 20:32 |
| mikeleib | I don't work on n900, I was speaking to Aava specifically | 20:32 |
| microlith | Nils^: might have better luck later on in #meego-arm | 20:32 |
| sabotage | Nils^: where are you quoting from | 20:32 |
| lcuk | n900 fremantle running liqbase stuffs | 20:32 |
| lcuk | thats software driven rotation too :$ | 20:32 |
| lcuk | so its not even as fast as it could be | 20:32 |
| Nils^ | sabotage: the meego official blog which announced git of 1.1 today | 20:32 |
| * sabotage not read all the blogs/twits, been furiously pushing code | 20:33 | |
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| trip0 | lcuk, mtf scrolls rather nicely on the n900. see widgetsgallery from extras-devel | 20:33 |
| lcuk | i saw it, but mtf means? | 20:33 |
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| lcuk | the widgets gallery ran rather hot tho | 20:33 |
| trip0 | mtf == meegotouch | 20:33 |
| lcuk | even when idle it was still burning through fps | 20:34 |
| * sabotage reads blog, just to know what the world is being told and see how it relates to his known universe | 20:34 | |
| th3hate | whats happens if i flash meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed.ubiimg using fiasco flasher :P? | 20:34 |
| lcuk | th3hate, flasher should block you being foolish | 20:35 |
| Nils^ | sabotage: not reading blogs and news is not a problem, as long as you are not a meego community manager or spokesperson :) | 20:35 |
| Nils^ | I hope its easier to crosscompile and build for meego than for maemo. | 20:35 |
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| microlith | Nils^: stick to the Qt Creator environment and you're good | 20:36 |
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| Nils^ | microlith: oh yes... I guess I can read that somewhere, but what about GTK? | 20:36 |
| sabotage | Nils^: and I am not, I am a "foot soldier" ;) | 20:36 |
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| microlith | Nils^: if GTK is your target, you are best with the maemo environment as Qt is the officially supported toolkit for MeeGo | 20:36 |
| Nils^ | microlith: my target is surely not a os which has only one hardware device :) | 20:37 |
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| trip0 | sabotage, you aren't a "foot soldier" your a "saboteur" | 20:38 |
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| slaine | isn't GTK+ also community supported on maemo ? | 20:38 |
| th3hate | any simple instructions on how to flash meego on n900? | 20:38 |
| microlith | well, the goal is of course to have Meego on multiple hardware devices | 20:38 |
| ZogG | thiago, so it's not n900 in meego video =))) | 20:38 |
| sabotage | Nils^: one can only guess what "Hardware adaptation support for Intel Atom-based handset (Moorestown) and ARM-based Nokia N900" means, but my guess would be device drivers, contextKit providers status indicator plugins, ofono modem plugins, etc... | 20:38 |
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| Nils^ | I have "only" one n900, and I want to keep it running, so I better stick with maemo now. Need to phone sometimes :) | 20:39 |
| yaosiang | Nils^, can't flash back to Maemo? | 20:40 |
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| Aard | Nils^: you can always try getting it booting meego from sd-card. though I'm quite glad that I have a dedicated unit for meego stuff | 20:40 |
| DawnFoster | I wouldn't recommend installing an early developer release on your primary cell phone | 20:40 |
| wazd | I wonder why some of the effects lag like hell and some works normally | 20:40 |
| Nils^ | Its tempting, and flashing forth and back would be a possibility, but once in my life I will resist and stick with a running system. | 20:41 |
| lcuk | Aard, so you have a meego image on your n900? | 20:41 |
| lcuk | Nils^, :) | 20:41 |
| Aard | lcuk: yes, though not working very well | 20:41 |
| Aard | did some experimenting yesterday | 20:41 |
| lcuk | Aard, so its built with all the normal open stuff? | 20:42 |
| sabotage | wazd: this seen on an Aava? | 20:43 |
| lcuk | if so, ftp it to someone at intel to validate what you say quickly and we can have it on the site tonight? | 20:43 |
| wazd | sabotage: this seen on something well hidden in shadows on youtube video :P | 20:43 |
| sabotage | oh | 20:43 |
| wazd | sabotage: looking like n900 :) | 20:43 |
| sabotage | guess I now must also watch videos | 20:43 |
| Aard | lcuk: yes. as I said earlier, with enough patience you should be able to get a somewhat working image with what's now public (except for stuff like cellular, of course) | 20:43 |
| ZogG | so why there is no N900 image and codedrop on dev.nokia? =)) | 20:44 |
| lpotter | so, there was a "meego" preview release that only runs on Intel handsets, which no one has except special "partners". gotcha | 20:44 |
| wazd | sabotage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs | 20:44 |
| lcuk | aard, im not asking for me, i have other things to do this evening. i am asking for other devs who dont fancy building a whole os to try it | 20:44 |
| lcuk | when you have the image there | 20:44 |
| sabotage | wazd: device in that vid is definately not an N900 | 20:45 |
| lcuk | lpotter, but the code is there :) | 20:45 |
| wazd | sabotage: I guess it's aava | 20:45 |
| Kaadlajk | it says on the description that it is aava | 20:45 |
| wazd | sabotage: yeah, took a closer look than window on n900 :D | 20:45 |
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| w00t_ | lpotter: there is a .ks for it | 20:45 |
| w00t_ | just not a built image | 20:45 |
| lpotter | lcuk: except the sdk simulator only runs on intell graphics cards... | 20:45 |
| neidlingerj | the kickstart posted will build you a n900 image lpotter | 20:46 |
| neidlingerj | or wait until someone posts a pre-built image | 20:46 |
| lcuk | intel folks: how did you manage to fit a whole x86 and heatsink inside a handset o_O i remember the chips used to be bigger than my hand | 20:46 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:46 |
| wazd | btw, it's a miracle how device charges wirelessly | 20:46 |
| w00t_ | lpotter: you mean the xephyr/chroot? it has no such hardware limitation | 20:46 |
| lcuk | lpotter, not looking at that! | 20:46 |
| wazd | incredible | 20:46 |
| neidlingerj | It's all because the image itself contains non-free Nokia libraries, so obviously they don't want to distribute those openly | 20:46 |
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| Aard | lcuk: there are reasons why the n900 image is not published yet. my stuff is just a dirty hack barely working | 20:46 |
| microlith | http://www.aavamobile.com/ | 20:46 |
| Aard | neidlingerj: that kickstart-image in the current state won't give you handset-ux | 20:47 |
| slaine | w00t_: actually, there are known issues with non-intel gfx and the simulator | 20:47 |
| lcuk | Aard, barely working > not accessible to regular devs | 20:47 |
| microlith | slaine: seriously? | 20:47 |
| jausmus | lcuk: you must have small hands... ;) | 20:47 |
| slaine | yeah | 20:47 |
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| w00t_ | slaine: really? what are they? because a number of people have gotten it working fine - I know that some haven't, but I also know that a lot of those have been making mistakes | 20:47 |
| lpotter | neidlingerj: so Meego is Intel only. | 20:47 |
| ZogG | Aard, so you are releasing the n900 image? | 20:47 |
| Aard | ZogG: no | 20:48 |
| microlith | #meego-arm for ARM stuff | 20:48 |
| Aard | I just did some toying around in my spare time | 20:48 |
| ZogG | <Aard> lcuk: there are reasons why the n900 image is not published yet. my stuff is just a dirty hack barely working //? | 20:48 |
| slaine | w00t_: from what I recall, it's a rendering problem with ATI/nVidia drivers, clutter and xephyr | 20:48 |
| jsa- | aard: i got the impression that the n900-adaptation people have working kickstart files with the ux stuff and were supposed to upload it to tablets dev instead of releasing an image. but it seems they haven't yet, if it's the old codedrop file | 20:48 |
| w00t_ | slaine: well - I've seen a few people working happily with it :) | 20:49 |
| tekojo | we are having an issue getting the .ks for n900 shared | 20:49 |
| Aard | jsa-: I have no idea how far the official ks-files are. the ones published at the moment don't containt ux-code | 20:49 |
| slaine | w00t_: that's good to know | 20:49 |
| tekojo | small thing with the closed bits | 20:49 |
| lpotter | Aard: heh. | 20:49 |
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| slaine | I use a Mac though, so I'm probably stuck using my dell mini9 for dev | 20:49 |
| lcuk | jausmus, http://www.pacificgeek.com/productimages/xl/80523PX333512.jpg | 20:49 |
| neidlingerj | Aard: interesting.. | 20:49 |
| w00t_ | tekojo: faster! faster! :) | 20:50 |
| lcuk | intel slot1 was massive | 20:50 |
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| ZogG | Aard, so you mean the link on meego.com to try out on N900 is misleading? =) | 20:50 |
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| slaine | lcuk, I had one of those for years | 20:50 |
| jausmus | lcuk: I know, I remember them all too well, but, bigger than your hand, really? ;) | 20:50 |
| slaine | PII 450 | 20:50 |
| Aard | ZogG: at the moment. though maybe the contents will change later ;) | 20:50 |
| neidlingerj | I have a feeling the maemo community is going to want blood if they don't get a UX image today... hah | 20:50 |
| tekojo | I just started my vacation, so I'm out of connection, and getting hold of the right people at this exact hour is... challenging | 20:50 |
| ZogG | Aard, ok, i want someone to try it out and maybe bootmenu adaptaion for it (as we have at nitdroid) | 20:52 |
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| DawnFoster | I know that people are working on getting the right N900 image up for people to use (still an early preview - some things work and there are some bugs) :) | 20:53 |
| ZogG | Aard, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=735824&postcount=381 - the answer for the codedrop delay =) | 20:54 |
| Aard | :) | 20:54 |
| ZogG | DawnFoster, it's only dev preview - don't expect — things work =) | 20:54 |
| lcuk | ZogG, its been in development for a while (looking at aava videos over the months) so it should work quite well at least for some definitions! | 20:55 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: remember that videos and demos only show the bits that are working well :) | 20:56 |
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| ZogG | lcuk, yeah, but i mean - it's better to expect something not really ready and find out it works better than you expected, than other way | 20:56 |
| ZogG | as i understand it doesn't work as phone yet - am i right? | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, of course! but it shows that its been coming together for a while | 20:57 |
| ZogG | only dialer and contacts as programs but you can't really call someone? | 20:57 |
| lcuk | ZogG, dont ask me, this is the first day for me too :) | 20:57 |
| thiago | ZogG: link? | 20:57 |
| lcuk | im plased the code is around | 20:57 |
| ZogG | lcuk, we are all so excited =) | 20:58 |
| ZogG | thiago link of what? | 20:58 |
| Aard | ZogG: hey, fennec is there as well :p | 20:58 |
| ZogG | Aard, have you got codedrop? | 20:58 |
| slaine | I've to sign off now | 20:58 |
| slaine | I might be around later | 20:59 |
| ZogG | thiago it was aava phone if you are talking about "not shown on N900" | 20:59 |
| Aard | ZogG: I've been working with that stuff for some weeks | 20:59 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: good luck with the TSG and pass on my congrats to the handset ux team | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | ZogG, ive got other things to do :P | 20:59 |
| DawnFoster | slaine - thanks! | 20:59 |
| ZogG | slaine, bye | 20:59 |
| * lcuk is going | 20:59 | |
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| ZogG | lcuk, i saw on twitter you are up to something for maemo =) | 20:59 |
| ZogG | lcuk, later | 20:59 |
| lcuk | ZogG, im always upto something | 21:00 |
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| InformatiQ | hi | 21:14 |
| InformatiQ | how to create a N900 image http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 21:14 |
| tekojo | InformatiQ: we still don't have the n900 .ks available, issues uploading it | 21:16 |
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| CosmoHill | Thank you netgear for making a router with such a stable connection | 21:23 |
| CosmoHill | </sarcasium> | 21:23 |
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| Tusker | sorry to ask the obvious question, but is there a repo available for arm for 1.1 ? (so that I can build my own n900 image) | 21:24 |
| ml-mobile | #meego-arm | 21:25 |
| Tusker | cheers | 21:25 |
| CosmoHill | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/armv7l/packages/ | 21:25 |
| bzhb | tusker : n900 image is late | 21:25 |
| Tusker | understand that it's late, hence building my own... | 21:25 |
| Tusker | CosmoHill: aren't they just the 1.0 packages ? | 21:25 |
| jsa- | tusker: they're having problem putting the kickstart file out there | 21:25 |
| Tusker | ah ok | 21:25 |
| jsa- | once that's done with, then you can build your own | 21:25 |
| Tusker | cheers | 21:26 |
| CosmoHill | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/handset/repos/armv7l/ | 21:26 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | there's a lot of talented brain power out here being laid waste. | 21:35 |
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| lpotter | ZogG: not everyone gets shiny new phones.. | 21:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but anyway. | 21:35 |
| * aloisiojr saw the annoucement of the "opening of Meego build infrastructure" | 21:35 | |
| thiago | lpotter: I sent two of those Aavas to brisbane | 21:35 |
| ZogG | lpotter, but i want to =)) | 21:35 |
| sabotage | TSCHAKeee2: as I noted earlier, us handset devs, (formerly MID devs) have been trying to get our code out for 2 years at least | 21:35 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | sabotage: yeah, i've wanted to see the MID code for roughly that long as well. | 21:36 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | sabotage: is this ux running on clutter/gtk as well? | 21:36 |
| CosmoHill | hey TSCHAKeee2 | 21:36 |
| jausmus | TSCHAKeee2: qt/mtf | 21:36 |
| sabotage | TSCHAKeee2: to lump *all* intel/nokia people into the same category is just lazy and immature BTW, | 21:36 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hey CosmoHill. | 21:37 |
| sabotage | most of us have been either muzzled or had nothing we were allowed to share | 21:37 |
| sabotage | when you work for a big company, they own your work, period! | 21:37 |
| *** bpeel is now known as bpeel_away | 21:37 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sabotage: i know. i'm not mad at you | 21:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sabotage: more at bosses a few levels up from you. | 21:37 |
| sabotage | TSCHAKeee2: UX this time around is only mtf based | 21:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | gotcha ok | 21:37 |
| * sabotage has ported his code 3 times now to 3 diff OSes and toolkits | 21:38 | |
| sabotage | I hope this one "sticks" | 21:38 |
| lpotter | heh | 21:38 |
| w00t | mtx..? | 21:38 |
| sabotage | so I can get on with actually getting features implimented | 21:38 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | w00t: mtf = MeeGo Touch Framework | 21:39 |
| sabotage | w00t: mtx? or mtf? | 21:39 |
| w00t | misread, I was sure I saw mtx | 21:39 |
| sabotage | mtf == meegotouch framework | 21:39 |
| sabotage | ok | 21:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so basically, dui(m)compositor as the wm now... | 21:40 |
| * lcuk wonders what it is about mobile devices that have to tear | 21:41 | |
| lcuk | can anyone pull out the company name the lady mentions at ~30seconds in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3TdoY868kc | 21:42 |
| lcuk | she mentions the company name of the people who actually wrote the initial stuff (perhaps its you sabotage) | 21:42 |
| lcuk | she mentioned it was written in 2 weeks :D | 21:42 |
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| sabotage | lcuk: no idea, can't make it out and it was not us | 21:44 |
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| sabotage | that vid was pre-meego | 21:45 |
| lcuk | this was feb | 21:45 |
| sabotage | and if I had to guess, there was a bit of hand waving going on | 21:45 |
| lcuk | of course, its a touch device | 21:45 |
| sabotage | original post, or repost | 21:45 |
| lpotter | thiago: heh. you're funny. | 21:46 |
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| sabotage | at any rate, they say at the beginning it's moblin 2.1 based so, well, who knows what it has on it but surely it has no relation to MeeGo | 21:46 |
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| lcuk | meego is born of moblin so theres some strong connection | 21:47 |
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| lcuk | but you are saying thats a different codebase tho? | 21:48 |
| lpotter | he's just guessing | 21:48 |
| sabotage | well, that's somewhat true, but also grossly over simplifing the reality lcuk | 21:48 |
| mikeleib | I, for one, am just glad we use rpm now | 21:48 |
| * lcuk doesnt care of packaging format - the code is the important part | 21:49 | |
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| sabotage | have been a maemo user in the past (3+ years) and a moblin dev since the beginning, and now a meego dev since it's beginning, I can do more than guess lpotter ;) | 21:49 |
| mikeleib | the code is out there, the packages are out there.... | 21:49 |
| sabotage | mikeleib: troll baiter X^( | 21:50 |
| * lbt wanders in looking for something to top QI ... ;) | 21:50 | |
| lcuk | qi? | 21:51 |
| lbt | QI | 21:51 |
| DawnFoster | A reminder that the TSG starts in 9 minutes | 21:51 |
| CosmoHill | is it on now? | 21:51 |
| lbt | Stephen Fry et al :) | 21:51 |
| Aard | lbt: new episodes? | 21:51 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: that'll do it :) | 21:51 |
| InformatiQ | tekojo: what about this link http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php? | 21:51 |
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| lbt | MythTV :) | 21:51 |
| DawnFoster | Agenda and logistics: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:52 |
| tekojo | InformatiQ: wrong .ks there | 21:52 |
| w00t | InformatiQ: pretty sure that is the old ks | 21:52 |
| w00t | at least it was when i looked | 21:52 |
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| * w00t is waiting patiently | 21:52 | |
| InformatiQ | tekojo: link should be removed then | 21:52 |
| tekojo | w00t: correct, haven't gotten hold of the right people yet | 21:52 |
| Aard | lbt: damn you. you had me hoping to find a new episode on iplayer for a minute | 21:52 |
| InformatiQ | lbt: which channel is the meeting? | 21:52 |
| w00t | #meego-meeting | 21:53 |
| tekojo | InformatiQ: well it will be fixed within the next two hours, so removing and putting back is kind of strange | 21:53 |
| lbt | <grin> ... just watched Pam Ayres episode ... hilarious | 21:53 |
| InformatiQ | w00t: thanks | 21:53 |
| Aard | yep, this one was great | 21:53 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: thanks for the reminder | 21:53 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: we'll give #meego-dev a go BTW... | 21:54 |
| lbt | InformatiQ: ^^ for tomorrow... if you turn up ;) | 21:54 |
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| InformatiQ | lbt: what's tomorrow? | 21:55 |
| lbt | you know.... work? | 21:55 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: let's talk about that later - I don't really have time right now | 21:55 |
| InformatiQ | ah yes :) | 21:55 |
| sp3000 | lcuk: http://www.globenewswire.com/news.html?d=184355 sounds like | 21:55 |
| DawnFoster | I'd like to make some changes, but need to talk to some people first | 21:55 |
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| lbt | *nod* | 21:55 |
| lcuk | sp3000, that would be it! | 21:56 |
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| * lbt holds his breath.... | 21:59 | |
| * CosmoHill tickles lbt | 21:59 | |
| CosmoHill | try holding your breath now | 22:00 |
| * lbt goes blue | 22:00 | |
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| thebootroo | hello | 22:00 |
| CosmoHill | thebootroo: #meego-meeting if you want to join | 22:00 |
| thebootroo | tx | 22:00 |
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| * lbt suggests again that we should have a "hands up" or something and then be invited to ask a question... otherwise it's hard to tell a slow typist from "I'm finished.... why are you all being quiet?" | 22:10 | |
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| CosmoHill | first person to go ".o/" gets to ask | 22:10 |
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| lbt | that kinda thing... obviously not tonight... | 22:11 |
| lbt | calendar... :) | 22:11 |
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| CosmoHill | was me posting the links helpful or should I of staied quiet | 22:12 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, that was nicely timed | 22:12 |
| lcuk | :) | 22:12 |
| lbt | +1 | 22:12 |
| CosmoHill | good | 22:13 |
| thiago | arjan: I've finished implementing a coarse timer for Qt | 22:13 |
| CosmoHill | considering I quickly ran off to meego.com to find them | 22:13 |
| CosmoHill | thiago: is that the timer you guys were talking about a few weeks ago? | 22:13 |
| * lbt is really looking forward to syncing his linux phone and his linux desktop ;) | 22:13 | |
| thiago | CosmoHill: yes | 22:13 |
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| thiago | I actually implemented another one too | 22:14 |
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| lbt | w00t: shame on you... | 22:14 |
| thiago | so Qt now has a millisecond-timer, a coarse timer and a second-timer | 22:14 |
| w00t | lbt: it had to be asked. :) | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: s/its out/it's out/ | 22:15 |
| thiago | the auto-coarse timer has made plasma fire 62 timers without sleeping, then sleep for 2 seconds | 22:15 |
| lbt | well, it makes an assumption... /me would have waited to see the code | 22:15 |
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| thiago | I don't know why, but it has 62 2-second timers | 22:15 |
| lcuk | :D timeless_mbp up until about 1/2 second from me posting it had "tis out!" so thats an improvement :P | 22:15 |
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| lbt | thiago: how many windows have you got? | 22:16 |
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| thiago | on this desktop, 8 | 22:16 |
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| lbt | not 62 then :( | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | lbt *grin* how many tabs have you got open :P | 22:17 |
| lcuk | to the nearest 100 | 22:17 |
| lbt | 2 | 22:18 |
| lcuk | jesus - did you have a cull? | 22:18 |
| w00t | tbh, I'm quite disheartened by that answer | 22:18 |
| lbt | oh, I thought you meant in hundreds... | 22:18 |
| lcuk | lbt i did :P | 22:18 |
| w00t | GAN900: perhaps you're right, and we're back to waiting - again | 22:18 |
| lcuk | you normally have at least 400 | 22:18 |
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| GAN900 | w00t, always. | 22:18 |
| lbt | heh | 22:19 |
| lcuk | w00t, codesoup isnt codesoup | 22:19 |
| lbt | w00t: why? | 22:19 |
| GAN900 | w00t, I fear my Marvin personality will prove correct in the end. | 22:19 |
| w00t | lbt: day one is here - and we're still waiting | 22:19 |
| suihkulokki | there will always be something to wait for | 22:19 |
| lbt | yeah; but that would be a 1.0 release | 22:19 |
| lcuk | w00t, you never wait if you make it yourself, you just cant code fast enough :P | 22:19 |
| * lcuk never gets frustrated by delays | 22:20 | |
| lbt | I'd rather we had a "here's what we got" | 22:20 |
| w00t | lbt: supposedly, we're already at it, even though that 1.0 release meant an xterm | 22:20 |
| lcuk | i was honestly surprised to see code :D | 22:20 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: how many tabs!!! | 22:20 |
| w00t | lbt: and I was fine with that, because day one was coming soon | 22:20 |
| * lbt was using it in real world terms ;) | 22:20 | |
| w00t | lbt: and now day one is here - and the rest is coming soon | 22:20 |
| w00t | lbt: I can't help but wonder what else will be coming soon after the next coming soon :) | 22:20 |
| lbt | but that's good? | 22:20 |
| lbt | more | 22:20 |
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| lbt | would you rather wait until everything that was ever going to be released was "ready" ? | 22:21 |
| w00t | quite the opposite | 22:21 |
| suihkulokki | whiners gonna whine | 22:21 |
| w00t | I want it on gitorious NOW, so I can help make it "ready" | 22:21 |
| w00t | :) | 22:21 |
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| lbt | suihkulokki: you tell him | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: ++ for backup | 22:22 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, i have experience :) | 22:22 |
| lbt | did I miss the battery answer? | 22:22 |
| suihkulokki | releasing small bits at a time = "this and that was not released, when will everything be released!?!" | 22:22 |
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| neidlingerj | no one answered the battery question | 22:23 |
| suihkulokki | releasing ready big cunks = "why wasn't this published when it was still under work" | 22:23 |
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| * timeless_mbp wonders what a cunk i | 22:23 | |
| * lbt wonders if there are any hardware restrictions cf ssssssse3 | 22:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | s | 22:23 |
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| suihkulokki | chunks | 22:23 |
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| Tadaa | Can I hold my Meego wrong? :-) | 22:26 |
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| lbt | Tadaa: yes | 22:26 |
| DawnFoster | Tadaa: we recommend not holding it (kidding) | 22:26 |
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| RageistheNewSage | how does one hold a meego? | 22:26 |
| lbt | just touch it gently RageistheNewSage | 22:26 |
| RageistheNewSage | ~~~ | 22:27 |
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| GAN900 | suihkulokki, don't think people who want to help are whiners. | 22:28 |
| GAN900 | suihkulokki, that's certainly not a PRODUCTIVE way to designate them. | 22:28 |
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| VDVsx | w00t, the backend for some of the missing apps is already in git, at least calendar and email is there | 22:28 |
| RageistheNewSage | Hoping to build a makeshift mediaplayer for mah meegos tonight | 22:29 |
| w00t | as I was just saying elsewhere.. my concern is that if development is not open now because components are not "ready", it shows that day one isn't completely day one.. and more important - that we could well be in for more big reveals in the future, while stuff isn't "ready" to be released - and that is what concerns me | 22:30 |
| lbt | small reveals | 22:30 |
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| lbt | which I get... they have to go through internal & legal review etc | 22:30 |
| w00t | I think it's great that stuff came out now, I'm happy for that, but after all the waiting - I thought we were supposed to be done with that :) | 22:30 |
| wazd | I kan hez widget on meego's lockscreen? :) | 22:30 |
| wazd | or applet | 22:31 |
| GAN900 | Well, where's the tablet UX stuff? | 22:31 |
| wazd | or whatever it called now | 22:31 |
| w00t | lbt: then the reasoning for that should be made transparent | 22:31 |
| RageistheNewSage | open source != open development w00t | 22:31 |
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| w00t | RageistheNewSage: I'm well aware of the distinction | 22:31 |
| RageistheNewSage | :) | 22:31 |
| lcuk | w00t, awesome idea | 22:31 |
| VDVsx | w00t, afaik these are only reference applications, all the backend stuff(meego) should be out now | 22:31 |
| lcuk | sorry, wazd even | 22:31 |
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| lbt | ah | 22:32 |
| GAN900 | RageistheNewSage, except all anybody in MeeGo wants to talk about is how open it is. | 22:32 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | ultimately, the PR mismatch really confuses the hell out of everyone | 22:32 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and it is being interpreted as posturing | 22:32 |
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| RageistheNewSage | It's certainly far more open than maemo, so I'll take it | 22:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I agree | 22:33 |
| w00t | no disagreement there | 22:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it is a step forward | 22:33 |
| w00t | I'd just like it to keep going further | 22:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and i know it will go further | 22:34 |
| Aard | VDVsx: more backend stuff will show up the next days. | 22:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i just fear that there will be a lot of damaged perception in the process. | 22:34 |
| RageistheNewSage | I would imagine more of the project being handed over to the linux foundation as things go on | 22:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's the only way i can frame it into words.. | 22:34 |
| lbt | RageistheNewSage: unlikely | 22:35 |
| lbt | they have nothing to do with day2day dev | 22:35 |
| CosmoHill | shouldn't that be "MeeGoMeeBot"? | 22:35 |
| GAN900 | Linux Foundation still doesn't really have a clear or meaningful role in the project. | 22:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it is unfortunately likely however, that meego core itself, will be quite hollow, with vendors magically filling in their own gaps for their products | 22:35 |
| w00t | GAN900: agreed.. that isn't really clear | 22:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | this is, unless the community takes action and fills in the pieces themselves. | 22:35 |
| RageistheNewSage | install hurd, it's as free as it gets :) | 22:36 |
| w00t | TSCHAKeee2: even then: "differentiation" | 22:36 |
| w00t | ;) | 22:36 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and sorry, i didn't mean meego core as in meego core | 22:36 |
| GAN900 | I'm worried about what a mess the vendor shit is going to be | 22:36 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i mean, that the base of what we eventually call "MeeGo" will be.... | 22:36 |
| GAN900 | Since there seems to be little enforcement there | 22:36 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ..quite useless on any device. | 22:36 |
| GAN900 | Pandering to Nokai's stupidity. | 22:36 |
| RageistheNewSage | I'd imagine the moorestown handsets will stay fairly vanilla | 22:37 |
| RageistheNewSage | but who knows | 22:37 |
| w00t | GAN900: will be interesting to see what Nokla do with it.. ;) | 22:37 |
| GAN900 | Oops | 22:37 |
| RageistheNewSage | Nokia ._. | 22:37 |
| GAN900 | s/Nokai/Nokia | 22:37 |
| RageistheNewSage | they are so terrible | 22:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | RageistheNewSage: i've NEVER known a cell phone vendor/carrier to stay vanilla.. the whole marketplace is a pack of wolves. | 22:37 |
| GAN900 | Too bad they generally have the only hardware that doesn't suck | 22:37 |
| RageistheNewSage | My N900 is becoming more bricklike day by day | 22:37 |
| GAN900 | x86 handsets are only useful to giggle at. | 22:38 |
| RageistheNewSage | and it looks pretty brick-ish to begin with | 22:38 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I am happy with the N900. I got it knowing exactly what it was | 22:38 |
| the_lord | how do I install meego in my N900 as dual-boot ? | 22:38 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm amazed it even exists at all | 22:38 |
| the_lord | I'd like to try it | 22:38 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the_lord: it is not ready for you. | 22:38 |
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| RageistheNewSage | "Your body is not ready" - Reggie | 22:39 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | the_lord: hate to be blunt, but if you phrase it that way, there is really nothing to..try...at the moment, as lots of stuff is still in the oven. | 22:39 |
| w00t | GAN900: who knows.. atom is improving | 22:39 |
| w00t | miracles might happen | 22:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh intel will catch up | 22:39 |
| RageistheNewSage | Also, I noticed the handset build uses 2.6.35(-rc3?) | 22:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | history tells us that | 22:39 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | anyone remember the Amiga? | 22:39 |
| RageistheNewSage | brace for slowness | 22:39 |
| w00t | (they might find a way to embed a mini nuclear power plant in your handheld) | 22:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 22:39 |
| lcuk | RageistheNewSage, i think you will find that nokia devs putting immense amounts of effort towards your machine and if it wasnt for those devs (many of whom are around you now) you wouldnt have an n900 or possibility to have meego on it at all | 22:39 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, it's quite obvious idea :) | 22:40 |
| wazd | lcuk: since 80% of the screen is empty :) | 22:40 |
| w00t | speaking of crappy x86, this laptop is nearly out of battery, sigh | 22:40 |
| RageistheNewSage | We need SPARC laptops ;P | 22:41 |
| RageistheNewSage | s/laptops/netbooks | 22:41 |
| lcuk | RageistheNewSage, so if you want to help with maemo and meego, dont hide behind bitchyness, find out and help where you can, theres plenty of maemo and meego code on gitorious so help out | 22:41 |
| CosmoHill | RageistheNewSage: ++ | 22:41 |
| CosmoHill | I was gonna buy a sun fire or something on ebay | 22:42 |
| CosmoHill | I got snipped :( | 22:42 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 had a sparc laptop long ago | 22:42 | |
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| CosmoHill | 5 bids in 1 min | 22:42 |
| amjad | CosmoHill: ever tried for MIPS netbook :) | 22:43 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 22:43 |
| CosmoHill | or any other netbook for that matter | 22:43 |
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| amjad | lol | 22:43 |
| microlith | RageistheNewSage needs to go back to 4cha ;) | 22:43 |
| microlith | 4chan* | 22:43 |
| RageistheNewSage | ._. | 22:43 |
| CosmoHill | I like this meeting, I'm actually a lot more involed and I've not wondered off half way through | 22:44 |
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| RageistheNewSage | Once I move onto my next phone I'm going to do a stage1 gentoo install on my N900 | 22:45 |
| trip0 | lol | 22:45 |
| RageistheNewSage | should be a pretty kickass tablet then | 22:45 |
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| RageistheNewSage | Just a QQ; how is the community supposed to maintain the n900 build when we have some closed drivers | 22:47 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | GOOD question lbt | 22:49 |
| the_lord | TSCHAKeee2, how do you know if it's ready for me or not? | 22:49 |
| microlith | RageistheNewSage: it is possible to build an image yourself using the closed components. iirc, they're isolated and few enough (down to 4) that it is not much of an issue | 22:50 |
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| RageistheNewSage | microlith: just thinking in terms of kernel compatability and whatnot | 22:50 |
| microlith | thankfully, none of the closed bits are part of the kernel | 22:51 |
| RageistheNewSage | ah | 22:51 |
| RageistheNewSage | I would have assumed there was some kernel code for the GPU | 22:51 |
| RageistheNewSage | that's fine then :) | 22:51 |
| microlith | nothign closed | 22:52 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: or you could type it out for him ;) | 22:52 |
| microlith | you can build and load a 2.6.28 kernel for maemo now and it'll work with 3D | 22:52 |
| GAN900 | w00t, so is ARm? | 22:52 |
| w00t | GAN900: of course | 22:52 |
| microlith | there are other changes making it difficult to move the N900 to 2.6.29 and beyond, not totally sure what | 22:52 |
| GAN900 | er | 22:52 |
| w00t | GAN900: my meaning was that x86 might not be always something to laugh at | 22:52 |
| GAN900 | Not a question | 22:53 |
| w00t | GAN900: it might end up actually tangible | 22:53 |
| * GAN900 is tyoing on the move | 22:53 | |
| RageistheNewSage | tyoing is fun | 22:53 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: maybe if I have time | 22:53 |
| w00t | typoing on the move? :P | 22:53 |
| GAN900 | Doubt it'll ever be better than ARM | 22:53 |
| CosmoHill | make some kinda web page or something | 22:53 |
| GAN900 | Well, in the reasonable-term. | 22:53 |
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| lbt | *nod* | 22:53 |
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| trip0 | better than arm at what? | 22:53 |
| CosmoHill | typoing on the move sounds actate | 22:53 |
| GAN900 | I mean, they're not even on the same continent right now. | 22:53 |
| RageistheNewSage | If Apple were to buy arm then it will need to get better | 22:53 |
| GAN900 | trip0, for a balanced experience in a mobile xontext. | 22:54 |
| GAN900 | Why would Apple buy ARM? | 22:54 |
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| trip0 | lol @ apple buying arm | 22:54 |
| RageistheNewSage | There has been speculation | 22:54 |
| RageistheNewSage | I don't see the reason | 22:54 |
| trip0 | old and unfounded speculation | 22:54 |
| w00t | antitrust regulators would have a field day | 22:54 |
| thiago | GAN900: because they have a lot of money | 22:54 |
| thiago | that's the only reason people say | 22:54 |
| trip0 | lol | 22:54 |
| thiago | it's a wild rumour with no basis in reality | 22:55 |
| RageistheNewSage | Maybe Apple should buy a company that designs usable antenna systems | 22:55 |
| trip0 | "gee what do i do with all this cash? i know lets buy arm!" | 22:55 |
| microlith | apple holds enough rights to arm tech that there is no benefit to buying them | 22:55 |
| w00t | thiago: wtf are you doing at the office this late :P | 22:55 |
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| thiago | if Apple tried to buy ARM, all the rest of the ARM-licensees would gather together and make a bigger offer | 22:55 |
| thiago | w00t: was working on the coarse timer support and now I'm rebuilding Qt on the laptop | 22:55 |
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| w00t | ah | 22:55 |
| w00t | coarse timer? new class? | 22:55 |
| thiago | w00t: turns out I've been waiting stupidly because I forgot to populate the compile farm with the laptop's compiler | 22:56 |
| w00t | ..oops. | 22:56 |
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| thiago | so it was running 2 compile jobs. I could have been at home. | 22:56 |
| RageistheNewSage | could you whip us a GSM modem driver for n900 real quick while you're there? ;P | 22:56 |
| thiago | now it's at a nice ~10 jobs | 22:56 |
| thiago | w00t: no new class, just a new enum in QTimer and a couple of overloads (QObject, QTimer, QBasicTimer and QAbstractEventDispatcher) | 22:57 |
| w00t | cool | 22:57 |
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| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 22:57 | |
| * w00t has a huge backlog of Qt stuff to get through | 22:57 | |
| trip0 | GAN900, the only current drawback to x86 for a handset is power usage. | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: pointing to fremantle as a reliable release process? | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | the regressions we've managed in various releases are depressing | 22:58 |
| w00t | trip0: but for a device which has 'being mobile' as a main requirement, that's a pretty huge drawback | 22:58 |
| lcuk | using it as an example of human testing which works | 22:58 |
| trip0 | w00t, idk, my n900 has pretty crappy power usage as it is... | 22:58 |
| lcuk | our testers are spot on and find things we miss regularly :P | 22:58 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 22:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | are your testers better than my testers? | 22:59 |
| trip0 | and i'm sure in time atom will be competitive in terms of power | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | because the tester i referenced this morning... | 22:59 |
| w00t | trip0: right, and if you think using a chip which draws *more* power will help there.. :P | 22:59 |
| GAN900 | trip0, maybe in 5 years | 22:59 |
| lcuk | lol timeless_mbp | 22:59 |
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| GAN900 | Right now competitive is the last word I would use. | 22:59 |
| * CosmoHill waits to get flooded with questions | 23:00 | |
| CosmoHill | arjan: nice shoot down | 23:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | heheh | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: we printed one of the bugs he touched and framed it on our glass wing | 23:00 |
| *** TSCHAKeee2 has left #meego | 23:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | he's actually a minor player in that bug | 23:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah, that was pretty much a no brainer... | 23:01 |
| arjan | CosmoHill: it's reality though | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | seeing as meego's kernel drivers would go upstream anyway... :P | 23:01 |
| lcuk | thats cool timeless_mbp that was a doozy | 23:01 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: you have a question? | 23:01 |
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| CosmoHill | or were you waving goodbye? | 23:01 |
| arjan | lkml acceptence criteria is "it must buidl" | 23:01 |
| lbt | that was lcuk :) | 23:01 |
| arjan | if you don't even that then I do not want to see your code | 23:02 |
| CosmoHill | my bad | 23:02 |
| * lcuk waves for lots of reasons | 23:02 | |
| CosmoHill | creative are screwed if that's the criteria | 23:02 |
| lcuk | usually cos i want a beer | 23:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | isn't the other criteria, "it must behave?" :P | 23:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh wait, sorry, I was dreaming, disregard | 23:02 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | :P :) | 23:02 |
| thiago | w00t: now I'm going home | 23:02 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, also, can show examples of both good and bad testing | 23:02 |
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| lcuk | kad, VDVsx is steering me towards the automation testing tools | 23:03 |
| lcuk | any idea where they are | 23:03 |
| CosmoHill | aww foxes | 23:03 |
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| CosmoHill | (n900 video) | 23:04 |
| w00t | thiago: god tur | 23:04 |
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| kad | lcuk, VDVsx: 1 sec, I'll find link for you | 23:05 |
| lcuk | cool ta | 23:05 |
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| kad | hmm. I remember I saw them on meego.gitorious.org about week ago :( | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | damn you people | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | now I want a N900 with meego | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | >.< | 23:07 |
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| kad | lcuk: http://gitorious.org/+qa-tools | 23:08 |
| CosmoHill | salut kad | 23:08 |
| lpotter | CosmoHill: if you want to actually use it as a phone, you will have to wait a bit longer | 23:08 |
| CosmoHill | well I don't have a N900 | 23:08 |
| kad | lcuk: and people from this team http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools would be best people to speak about QA plans and tools to be used. | 23:08 |
| CosmoHill | or money | 23:09 |
| lcuk | kad, ill have a proper read | 23:09 |
| petteri | uhh, I need another phone to get started with meego on n900 :D | 23:09 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 blinks | 23:09 | |
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| lpotter | CosmoHill: in that case, you will have to wait a bit longer | 23:09 |
| microlith | we need a meego-community purchase plan for Aava handsets | 23:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that does not bode well :P | 23:09 |
| CosmoHill | lpotter: lol | 23:09 |
| RageistheNewSage | so... are the n900 bits nearly ready :3 | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | kad, who is in charge of writing the tests? is it down to the original developer, or do you have test case engineers? | 23:10 |
| kad | lcuk: anyone can contribute test packages which would be utilized in QA infra | 23:11 |
| CosmoHill | I saw a n900 and it was a lot thicker than I expected | 23:11 |
| lcuk | thats good, do any of the tests check UI interaction, or are they all model based testcases? | 23:11 |
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| VDVsx | so who's the brave guy that will install meego in the n900 and make a video ? :P | 23:14 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps will! :D | 23:14 |
| RageistheNewSage | VDVsx | 23:14 |
| RageistheNewSage | about to | 23:15 |
| RageistheNewSage | just noticed the ks is up | 23:15 |
| VDVsx | coooll | 23:15 |
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| kad | VDVsx: I think Carsten is now relaxing on his holidays, and would have more enjoyable things to do this evening :) | 23:16 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, ^ | 23:16 |
| VDVsx | :D | 23:17 |
| kad | oh, yeah, lcuk :) | 23:17 |
| RageistheNewSage | however be aware that this is pre-alpha and kernel 2.6.35 has awful performance at the moment | 23:17 |
| DawnFoster | hey, don't pick on stskeeps while he's on holiday :) | 23:17 |
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| w00t_ | VDVsx: if I get an image built, I'll do a video | 23:17 |
| w00t_ | problem will be building an image | 23:17 |
| w00t_ | mic and I don't get one | 23:17 |
| lcuk | no1 is picking on him, hes sat in a tent with beer and music and only a splattering of technology | 23:17 |
| w00t_ | -e | 23:17 |
| * VDVsx pokes Stskeeps on fb :P | 23:17 | |
| CosmoHill | VDVsx: he was on his phone in the meeting | 23:18 |
| lcuk | he signed off 15mins ago | 23:18 |
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| DawnFoster | I'm just jealous because it seems like everyone is out on holiday except me. | 23:18 |
| lcuk | so probably onto his 3rd pint now | 23:18 |
| kad | DawnFoster: I've noticed that w00t has in his cloaked hostname "podcast", which reminds me | 23:18 |
| VDVsx | DawnFoster, you're not alone :D | 23:18 |
| kad | DawnFoster: maybe it would be good idea that we would organize in addition to meetings some podcasts about meego ? | 23:19 |
| DawnFoster | kad: I think that's a great idea | 23:19 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: aww | 23:19 |
| CosmoHill | I got my car back today :D | 23:19 |
| DawnFoster | I've even done some podcasting | 23:19 |
| CosmoHill | it's only a matter of time before I get pulled over :/ | 23:19 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, kad, you are both aware that if you do it, it will require a kickass podcast application for people to listen with :p | 23:20 |
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| RageistheNewSage | hmm | 23:20 |
| CosmoHill | http://succeedinevil.com/2006/06/13/episode-i-a-thursday-without-golf/ | 23:20 |
| RageistheNewSage | image build failed ._. | 23:20 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: are you volunteering to write one :) | 23:20 |
| CosmoHill | speaking of podcasts | 23:20 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, i barely have speakers enabled and have a very small set of musical tastes, i dont think ive ever downloaded a podcast in my life | 23:21 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: see my link :3 | 23:21 |
| lcuk | so i wouldnt be the best person to make one :) | 23:21 |
| kad | lcuk: gpodder was quite good for me on my n900 :) | 23:21 |
| tekojo | .ks for MeeGo N900 now in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 23:22 |
| CosmoHill | thanks tekojo | 23:22 |
| lcuk | yeah thp has built that amazingly well | 23:22 |
| * CosmoHill gives tekojo a cookie | 23:22 | |
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| lcuk | tekojo, THANKS! NOW GO ON HOLIDAY, QUICK! | 23:22 |
| tekojo | meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-closed-1.0.80.8.20100630.ks is the file | 23:22 |
| * lcuk hunts for an n900 | 23:23 | |
| tekojo | lcuk: thanks, this is where work and hobby is blurred | 23:23 |
| lcuk | indeed dude, how long you off for? | 23:23 |
| lbt | so tekojo... the infrastructure on valhalla's blog? | 23:23 |
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| tekojo | haven't read it myself, so don't know what he said :) | 23:24 |
| tekojo | but we are still stuck with hardware :/ | 23:24 |
| * microlith shudders and prepares to try and get a fedora install going | 23:24 | |
| lbt | "Today, we are also opening the MeeGo Build Infrastructure." | 23:24 |
| lbt | just wondered what it meant... | 23:24 |
| tekojo | need a third rack at OSU and some more bandwidth from the engineers involved | 23:24 |
| lbt | OK | 23:25 |
| kad | lbt: it should be about community OBS, because the distro's one is pending before we deploy 2.x | 23:25 |
| lbt | kad: yeah, I figured I'd know about the community one :) | 23:25 |
| lbt | and I thought the main one needed 2.1 + | 23:25 |
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| lbt | reminds me.... anaZ: I still need to connect the community OBS to the main OBS | 23:26 |
| tekojo | yep, I need to put a mail out to the relevant people that I'll be away on vacation and please get that rack | 23:26 |
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| * microlith grabs F12 live cd | 23:26 | |
| kad | lbt: yes, 2.1 or at least some snapshots from master. | 23:26 |
| lbt | X-Fade: did anaZ need anything from us? IPs? | 23:26 |
| X-Fade | lbt: He didn't mail back. | 23:27 |
| lbt | makes sense... and I'm kinda hoping the community one will allow you to keep the main one "clean" | 23:27 |
| X-Fade | But for snapshots we don't need access right? | 23:27 |
| lbt | no, not so much | 23:27 |
| lbt | and kad, those are public and regular now? | 23:27 |
| X-Fade | Although if people want to build against bleading edge.. | 23:28 |
| lbt | we could do with rsync though! | 23:28 |
| X-Fade | Yes, true. | 23:28 |
| tekojo | weird question, has anyone tried to make a netbook image with the handset ux yet? | 23:28 |
| petteri | how did I get the IMEI from device (n900), there was some key code or something | 23:28 |
| lbt | X-Fade: I'd like that ... but I can live without if they're loaded | 23:28 |
| lbt | petteri: About | 23:28 |
| kad | lbt: yes, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/ | 23:28 |
| tekojo | petteri: setting and at the bottom about device | 23:28 |
| Sage | http://meego.com/devices/handset/handset-supported-hardware <- QUESTION: why this page refers to v1.1? | 23:28 |
| lbt | Settings/About | 23:28 |
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| w00t_ | DawnFoster: ^^ see Sage's question | 23:29 |
| Aard | tekojo: use the default netbook kickstart file, and just replace the package groups | 23:29 |
| lbt | kad: and rsync? | 23:29 |
| lbt | I think InformatiQ wants that too | 23:29 |
| Aard | tekojo: and change the resolution for meegotouchhome | 23:29 |
| CosmoHill | hey X-Fade | 23:29 |
| kad | lbt: rsync -> ask anaZ :) | 23:29 |
| tekojo | Aard: I was thinking of that, so it is as simple as that? | 23:29 |
| petteri | lbt, tekojo thanks. Got it :) | 23:29 |
| * lbt yells louder at anaZ... :D | 23:29 | |
| Aard | tekojo: yep. I've been using a netbook for testing before I got my aava | 23:29 |
| kad | Sage: because it's about handset. and handset is only part of 1.1+ | 23:29 |
| lizardo | tekojo: isn't http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.8.20100629.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-netbook-mtf/meego-handset-ia32-netbook-mtf-1.0.80.8.20100629.1.img what you are asking ? | 23:30 |
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| Sage | kad: I think that page should say "upcoming MeeGo v1.1 Handset" or something like that. | 23:30 |
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| lbt | X-Fade, InformatiQ: given how slow the main server is, is it worth doing one sync to pmo and from there to nokia internal? | 23:31 |
| trip0 | looks like moorsetown consumes about 4watts full-till. my sheevaplug consumes about 6W with bt and ethernet on | 23:31 |
| tekojo | then I should have an image | 23:31 |
| CosmoHill | trip0: wow | 23:31 |
| th3hate | is this what we're waiting for? | 23:31 |
| th3hate | meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-closed-1.0.80.8.20100630.ks | 23:31 |
| tekojo | well, will try to make an image at home anyeay | 23:31 |
| CosmoHill | I have a crap Viglen that uses 7w when turned off :/ | 23:31 |
| X-Fade | lbt: That can be discussed, rsyncing is not that hard on the server if we limit the rate. | 23:31 |
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| lbt | X-Fade: yeah, I meant assuming we don't get it | 23:32 |
| Aard | tekojo: quick hack for the resolution thing, add this to your kickstart: sed -i 's/864/1024/' /etc/meegotouch/devices.conf; sed -i 's/480/600/' /etc/meegotouch/devices.conf | 23:32 |
| lbt | I know I've got things I'd rather get first... like somewhere to run REVS | 23:32 |
| tekojo | th3hate: that and http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 23:33 |
| X-Fade | lbt: Otherwise we can web scrape ;) | 23:33 |
| th3hate | its released in the code drop already | 23:33 |
| tekojo | bigger screen than that :) | 23:33 |
| th3hate | the kick start file | 23:33 |
| lbt | kad: can REVS help on this : http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 or is it expected to be more freeform? | 23:33 |
| arjan | we really need meegotouch to just ask X what the screen resolution is | 23:33 |
| arjan | rather than it being a config file | 23:34 |
| arjan | that's actually a rather bad bug if you ask me | 23:34 |
| tekojo | arjan: asking X would be more optimal | 23:34 |
| w00t_ | it isn't like that is all that hard, either | 23:34 |
| kad | lbt: it would be helping to some extend. but there would be also things which didn't mentioned in changelogs. (e.g. reports from bugzilla) | 23:34 |
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| lbt | kad: *nod* we should have bzilla linkages... and summaries too | 23:35 |
| kad | lbt: wiki would be more like for people, and less techincal meego team members who are working on something not done inside source code :) | 23:35 |
| lbt | I was talking to Stephen (?) yesterday | 23:35 |
| lbt | on exactly that | 23:35 |
| DawnFoster | w00t_ / Sage: that's an oversight - we'll get that fixed. | 23:35 |
| lbt | OK... | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | arjan: QDesktopWidget has the screen size | 23:36 |
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| w00t_ | DawnFoster: cool, thanks | 23:36 |
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| mgolisch | what hardware will meego run on? | 23:36 |
| thiago_home | mgolisch: Atom and ARM | 23:36 |
| mgolisch | nothing else? | 23:36 |
| lcuk | what do you want it to run on | 23:36 |
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| arjan | thiago: not saying it's hard to get the screen size. just it makes it all the more lame that it's ALSO in some other random config file | 23:37 |
| thiago_home | arjan: yup | 23:37 |
| mgolisch | will those netbook images boot on my macbook? | 23:37 |
| mgolisch | too lazy to search my netbook | 23:37 |
| thiago_home | arjan: I'm trying to convince people here to improve on the sysinfo part of Qt, to include the relevant information | 23:37 |
| lcuk | arjan, doesnt x11 store the resolution in some lame config file too (technically) :p | 23:38 |
| thiago_home | arjan: including the form-factor and type of device | 23:38 |
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| thiago_home | arjan: presence of a touchscreen, multitouch, keyboard, etc. | 23:38 |
| jausmus | mgoetz: dunno - try USB-botting it and find out. ;) | 23:38 |
| jausmus | mgolisch, rather... | 23:38 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, i see the multitouch qt bug has been reactivated | 23:38 |
| lcuk | errr not multitouch | 23:38 |
| lcuk | multicast | 23:38 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: brad was working on that one | 23:38 |
| lcuk | yeah saw today :) | 23:39 |
| BluesLee | hi, does someone know how to convert an ubiimg to lets say a tgz? | 23:39 |
| lcuk | BluesLee, right click, "Compress" | 23:39 |
| thiago_home | arjan: btw, I wanted to ask you: as a kernel developer, do you recommend using timerfds ? | 23:39 |
| lcuk | ;) | 23:39 |
| lcuk | i dont know the real way though | 23:39 |
| arjan | lcuk: no X uses EDID to pull it from the hardware | 23:39 |
| arjan | using a config file is only a last resort | 23:39 |
| lcuk | arjan, not all hardware supplies it | 23:39 |
| BluesLee | lcuk: ;-) | 23:39 |
| lcuk | basically its just moving the config though to OS | 23:40 |
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| * lcuk has similar configuralities | 23:40 | |
| arjan | thiago: not really; not unless you want to select() on set of timers | 23:40 |
| * tekojo goes to bed, long day | 23:40 | |
| CosmoHill | night tekojo | 23:40 |
| tekojo | night | 23:40 |
| lcuk | gnite tekojo \o | 23:41 |
| BluesLee | it turns harder to mount it, damn | 23:41 |
| lbt | o/ | 23:41 |
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| arjan | lcuk: even if it's manual like that, it should be in one place | 23:41 |
| arjan | so that correct apps that ask X what it is, get the one true answer | 23:41 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:41 | |
| thiago_home | arjan: ok, thanks for the confirmation | 23:42 |
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| thiago_home | arjan: sounded like an overkill to make a syscall to create timers | 23:42 |
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| mikeleib | select FTW | 23:42 |
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| microlith | can someone deal with this "zaffe" poster on the meego forums? | 23:43 |
| BluesLee | why does nokia not provide a tarball of the rootfs ... hmmm | 23:44 |
| BluesLee | it would be much better as many of us just want to try it out by dual booting from micro sd | 23:45 |
| arjan | thiago: if you have many different ones it means your mail poll/select loop does not need to do the min() operator | 23:45 |
| arjan | yes lame | 23:45 |
| thiago_home | arjan: well, the code I've just implemented rounds the timer up as well | 23:46 |
| thiago_home | rounds up to a millisecond | 23:46 |
| trip0 | BluesLee, IIRc, you need to go through the normal flashing process which involves entering your S/N on the interwebs to get the image. | 23:46 |
| BluesLee | trip0: you mean my imei ... i did that | 23:47 |
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| BluesLee | trip0: but unfortunately there is a ubiimg for flashing the nand of the n900 and a qemu image | 23:48 |
| trip0 | dd the qemu image to sd? | 23:48 |
| microlith | don't | 23:48 |
| BluesLee | trip0: a tarball for dualboot is not there | 23:48 |
| BluesLee | trip0: i tried that | 23:49 |
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| trip0 | hmm | 23:49 |
| BluesLee | trip0: but i dont know how to use mkfs.ubifs | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | this is the "Very Coarse" mode I implemented: | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | timer VC 1 interval 25 expected at 1400239.799065 will fire first at 1400240.000000 | 23:49 |
| BluesLee | trip0: before i went for ext2 | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | rounds to a second | 23:49 |
| microlith | the ubiffs image on tablets-dev is -old- | 23:50 |
| thiago_home | those 25-second timers are D-Bus | 23:50 |
| microlith | brb | 23:50 |
| BluesLee | microlith: there is a new one for the n900 meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed-201003311635.ubiimg | 23:50 |
| thiago_home | here's a long-running one: | 23:51 |
| kallam | BluesLee: that is old image | 23:51 |
| thiago_home | timer C 16777217 interval 10000 firing at 1400295.010922 (orig 1400295.274492 scheduled at 1400295.000000 ) off by -0.26357 activation 257 avg error -0.266518 | 23:51 |
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| BluesLee | ohh | 23:51 |
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| BluesLee | its the date there, damn old | 23:51 |
| BluesLee | sorry | 23:52 |
| ml-mobile | heh | 23:52 |
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| ml-mobile | the .ks file will build you an appropriate imahe | 23:52 |
| ml-mobile | image* | 23:52 |
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| BluesLee | ml-mobile: i had to reread that damn post on the maemo forum, to much misleading links there | 23:54 |
| villemv_ | are we going to have the sdk for handset ux yet? | 23:55 |
| villemv_ | this baby: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux | 23:56 |
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| CosmoHill | just wondering | 23:58 |
| CosmoHill | how would you get music and photos onto a meego phone, usb / bluetooth / memory card transfer? | 23:58 |
| BluesLee | ml-mobile: is there a howto or a readme? | 23:58 |
| villemv_ | CosmoHill: network? | 23:59 |
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| ml-mobile | one sec, will post a link | 23:59 |
| CosmoHill | oh yeah wifi, | 23:59 |
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