IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2010-06-09

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CosmoHillmeegorocks: do you have volume buttons your your laptop?00:05
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CosmoHillhey DawnFoster00:07
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meegorocksCosmoHill: i'm using a mini pc00:13
meegorocksCosmoHill: i found out about sound settings :)00:13
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CosmoHillwhat does "IUillegal instruction (core dumped)" mean?00:19
pupnikyou must report to the local police00:20
CosmoHillcould it be caused by say SSSE3 being ran on a system without it00:20
CosmoHillwhen X is running, how do I find out what driver is being used?00:28
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:29
CosmoHillcyas trem00:29
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vgradelbt, OBS not open to me?01:22
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chickarooso meego won't boot on my laptop via usb or CD image, just hangs black screen with blinking underscore. would this be because i have a nvidia graphics card? you'd think it would at least give text or something01:31
chickaroois there some sort of safe boot? or am i Fsck'd since it doesn't even give a boot menu?01:31
chickarooi have a core 2 duo with SSSE3 so i don't think it's that01:32
chickaroobot not working?01:32
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chickaroopupnik: yeah i've read that, doesn't seem to help... i guess i have a motherboard it doesn't support?01:34
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chickaroowould be nice to test drive before i actually buy a netbook01:35
chickarooanyways, thanks01:35
pupniklooks like it01:35
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pupniki havent tried with nvidia myself01:36
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pupniksince it is unsupported01:37
chickarooi think it would at least get a framebuffer and see the boot menu and kernel booting though01:37
chickaroobut it just gives blinking cursor :(01:37
chickarooi wouldn't mind the nvidia blob if i could at least get it to boot in text mode01:38
pupnikyou may be able to interrupt boolt with esc (?)01:38
pupnikand get to grub boot prompt01:38
koupsaamaybe try to remplace quiet by init 3 at boot01:38
pupnikand boot to single user mode01:38
lbtvgrade: who said that?01:39
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chickarooi wish i could do that, but it doesn't even get to the grub prompt01:39
pupnikoh that should be fixed01:39
pupnikdefinitely need boot options01:40
chickaroo(i did the dd method to install it to USB stick, so i would think it is not the image)01:40
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koupsaatab key for boot options01:43
koupsaai just reboot i don't remember who want to know that01:44
pupniktab  yes. argh01:45
chickarooi'll try after i'm done reimaging the usb stick, but i don't think it even gets to the boot menu at all01:45
pupnikjust saw that01:45
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koupsaachickaroo, i m sure. i just try, but it's a fast boot maybe try again01:46
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pupnikthe forums have some scary participants01:47
chickaroonope, i spammed it and nothing... hmm :/01:48
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pupnikchickaroo: can you alt+f1 to a console after boot?01:54
pupnikor is it ctrl-alt-f101:55
chickaroopupnik: doesn't get that far01:55
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chickarooit doesn't even load the menu or anything it seems01:55
chickarooanyways, thanks. i'll try again when i have a real netbook01:56
pupnikthe intel 4500hd looks nice01:57
chickaroooh and i know the computer boots from USB just fine, knoppix loads from a USB stick. so it's something with meego01:57
chickaroobut not even the grub or whatever the image uses to boot, loads01:57
chickarooso it's not even getting to the kernel yet01:57
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b00fis there currently binary compatibility between meego and moblin?04:03
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* timeless_mbp frowns05:40
timeless_mbpanyone here able to do translation?05:40
timeless_mbpi think i need en-CN to en-US05:41
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Votandoes anyone here know how I can replace the beta channel chrome with the dev channel chrome ? just installing the dev channel rpm does not work.09:29
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sivuhello world10:03
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sivuhello jusliukk10:17
jusliukkhello sivu :)10:17
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Stskeepsmorn tekojo, slaine10:19
slainemorning folks10:19
tekojomorning Stskeeps10:20
tekojoand everyone else10:20
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Stskeepsfinally, an agenda with structure and project roles on it for TSG meeting10:20
Stskeepswill be interesting to see if my internal mental picture of how things work in the project correspond to reality :P10:21
faboi wonder what are sage's topics ?10:23
Stskeepsfor the n900 hardware adaptation meeting?10:23
fabowhat's behind OBS issues ?10:24
Sageit just does not work10:24
Stskeepsfabo: gettting build stalls and random breakdowns for 15 minutes, so it's impossible to work with :P10:24
Sage504 is the response in 90% of the cases :)10:24
faboSage: lucky guys :)10:25
faboI don't have the same results on OBS and local build ...10:25
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waoh/w 3010:40
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slaineStskeeps: Is that N900 meeting on today or tomorrow ? You mentioned, June 9th and Thursday, pick one11:07
Stskeepstomorrow morning11:07
slaine10th June then11:07
Stskeepsit really isn't my day today :)11:07
slaineget some coffee me lad11:08
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jones-slaine: ping11:14
jones-slaine: something about the wl kernel module. I followed your instructions to get wifi on Broadcom 4353 chipset, but it only works after many many tries from connman.11:14
jones-Ever heard anything similar?11:15
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slaineI have a simiar issue with connman, but it only takes one attempt for me11:15
slaineI basically turn off wifi, count to 3, turn it on11:15
slaineI've heard of others with similar problems on non-broadcom chipsets11:16
slaineso I'm not sure it's just the wl kernel module11:16
jones-yeah, I thought it might be a connman problem, because the same module (compiled by me) works fine on ubuntu.11:16
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ofauchonCan we already register for Meego Conference 2010 ? Still no detailed instructions on the wiki . Thx11:25
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sivangmorning all12:21
sivangso quite in here.12:21
th0br0good morning12:22
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th0br0let's see whether we'll have a meeting today ... :D12:22
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BTis QT running on meego on beagle board?14:14
BTI am able to run the basic meego in beagleboard14:14
w00t_I'd presume so, Qt works on ARM, so14:15
BTbut how I can add more packages for window server and then QT?14:15
w00t_do you have X running already?14:16
BTX-term running14:16
Tumi_BT: nice. did you get it easily working?14:17
BTnot much problem14:17
Tumi_I just got a beagle board myself but probably have no time to test that14:18
Stskeepsthere's a small bunch of people working on meego-beagle, afaik14:19
w00t_well.. with X already running, you should be able to build (and run) Qt applications.. you'll probably want to get a window manager of some variety running to play around, but that's not a must of course14:21
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BTlooking some pointers, what window manager we can install? and how I can install14:24
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BThaving problem to use zypper? any zypper configuration needed so the packages can be downloaded from repo14:25
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w00t_BT: honestly.. i'm not sure if one is packaged. Stskeeps: does the n900 image have xfce set up nowdays temporarily? or is it still a bare xterm too14:29
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w00t_ah :-/14:30
BThow I can add xfce?14:30
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Stskeepsknow how to generate an image?14:31
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BTI have some steps how to do it....14:33
* CosmoHill has ridden 23.7Km today :D14:33
CosmoHillhey Stskeeps14:33
BTcan it be added with the rootfs that is available in the website?14:34
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StskeepsBT: has a config that uses xfce414:34
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Trollkar1enWhen is the N900 meeting tomorrow ?14:36
Stskeeps6:00 UTC14:37
Trollkar1enDoes anyone know the status of zypper and armv7 repos at ?14:37
Stskeepsshould be fine14:38
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Trollkar1enSo its fixed ?14:38
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Stskeepswell, what was the issue before? :P14:39
Trollkar1enThe zypper thats in the repo and in the first n900 image dont understand armv7l14:39
Trollkar1enSo you could not installanything from the repo.14:39
Stskeepsok, that's cos someone made meego-release wrong14:40
Stskeepsedit the paths in zypper or yum conf to not say ia3214:40
BTStskeeps : thanks, is xfce is included, whats the meaning of --defaultdesktop=xfce14:40
Trollkar1enThats not the issue the issue is that zypper dont understands armv7l, there is pathes for this on the zypper ML.14:41
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StskeepsBT: logging into it14:41
StskeepsTrollkar1en: ah14:41
StskeepsTrollkar1en: could you point me to those?14:41
Trollkar1en  and
Trollkar1enWith them it works.14:42
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Stskeepsok, so dl9pf is on it14:42
Trollkar1enIs he a meego guy ?14:43
Trollkar1enI think he posted them :)14:43
Stskeepswell, LF14:43
Trollkar1enWill everything from now be released in a updates repo even for n900 ?14:44
Stskeepstrunk's being synced daily for all, it looks like14:44
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Trollkar1enSo the 1.0 rel will change ?14:45
CosmoHillStskeeps: did you see the screen shot I put up last light?14:45
Trollkar1enWhat im intressed in is how the updates to 1.0 will be handled like the normal workflow for a distribution or not ?14:46
CosmoHillupdate from meego 0.1 or meamo?14:47
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Trollkar1enFreeze when 1.0 is rel and then all fixes are rel in a updates repo/project14:47
StskeepsTrollkar1en: i think only minor updates go into 1.0. you'll have to ask the release team though14:47
w00t_Stskeeps: hmm, who are they?14:48
Trollkar1enWho can i talk to that in the rel team ?14:49
Stskeepsmeego-dev, prefix it with release team question or something14:49
Stskeeps(mailing list)14:49
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BTStskeeps : is there any latest ks file, arm-n8x0.ks  has some issue to get kernel-n81015:02
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MmadAHi. I have some silly question... I have problem the same like described here:
MmadABut I don't know how to use this answer...15:07
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MmadAWhat is Scratchbox1? And where I can find 'Prerequisites for ARM'?15:07
Stskeepslet's step back a bit and let me ask what you plan to do?15:08
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MmadAStskeeps: I trying to setup environment to building rpm packages...15:09
MmadAI'm just going step by step with
Stskeepsok, for ARM or x86?15:09
MmadAFor ARM.15:09
MmadAAnd when I'm trying to use mic-chroot to chroot into meego image I'm getting this 'No such file or directory' like in wiki.15:11
Stskeepsok - and you haven't had scratchbox installed (maemo sdk) or the likes?15:11
MmadANo... I don't think so...15:11
Stskeepsok - what image are you trying to chroot into?15:12
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MmadAOne moment...15:13
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MmadAStskeeps: I downloaded this one:
Stskeepsok, and what OS are you running this under?15:15
dl9pfStskeeps: Trollkar1en: yes, i'm on the zypper vs. armv7 issue15:15
MmadAStskeeps: I have openSUSE in virtualbox15:15
Stskeepsok - does /usr/bin/qemu-arm exist or /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static?15:15
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Stskeepsin your host system15:15
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MmadAStskeeps: I have both...15:17
dl9pfMmadA: cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm15:18
* dl9pf looks15:21
dl9pfok, what do you try to execute - mic2 ?15:21
dl9pfor chroot/dev environment ?15:21
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MmadAI'm getting /bin/bash no such file or directory, but of course in fs/bin/bash I have bash. ;)15:23
dl9pfgive me your last steps please15:23
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MmadAdl9pf: Just second, I need to clear everything.15:25
MmadARebooting my virtualmachine...15:26
dl9pfdo you try to exec mic2 ?15:26
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MmadAdl9pf: Yes... It could be a reason... I instaled it, but I'm not sure if I exec mic2.15:28
dl9pfok, the issue is that there're 2 conflicting versions of qemu installed.15:29
MmadABut one moment do you mean 'sudo mic-chroot <path with mounted image>'?15:29
dl9pfare you only interested in mic2 ?15:29
dl9pfthen do this: remove all qemu packages (qemu-* and qemu-arm-static) and install only qemu-arm-static15:30
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MmadAdl9pf: OK, I will try it.15:30
MmadAdl9pf: Thanks!15:31
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MmadAdl9pf: But if I have in my system only qemu-arm-static I don't have
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dl9pfok, a minute please15:39
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dl9pfleave out the ...15:43
dl9pfjust exec the other steps15:44
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w00t_o/ abner :)15:44
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abnerw00t_, o/15:45
sivanghey all15:46
faboSage: Errorcode: 50415:46
fabonow, I've got it15:46
MmadAdl9pf: So without qemu-binfmt-conf I have the same:
fabowhy obs doesn't satisfy my build dependencies ?15:48
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daemon_how can i run meego on desktop pc?15:53
sx0ndaemon_, with supported hw15:54
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daemon_u mean the SSSE?15:54
sx0nplus intel graphics.15:55
daemon_it wont run otherwise?15:55
sx0nsdk works15:55
w00t_it won't run directly.. you can use the SDK15:55
daemon_ok thanks15:55
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dl9pfMmadA: ls fs/usr/bin/qemu-*16:00
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MmadAdl9pf: fs/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static16:02
dl9pfcat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm ?16:03
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dl9pfrpm -qv mic2 ?16:03
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MmadAcat: /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm: No such file or directory16:04
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MmadAThats probably because I dont have qemu-binfmt-conf right now...16:04
dl9pfnop, mic2 has its own mimic16:04
dl9pfrpm -qv mic2 ?16:04
MmadAxadamik@linux-mvbt:~/MeeGo/img> rpm -qv mic216:05
BThi, I downloaded latest package, probably it has QT, when I run qtdemo, there is some error couldnt open device /dev/skfgles216:05
dl9pfMmadA: install mic2 from git master
dl9pfand retry16:06
MmadAOK, lets try...16:06
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devnull42has anyone been able to use vpn in meego?16:12
MmadAdl9pf: So just do all this 'git clone [...]', 'git remote add [...]' and so one, and make && make install?16:13
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dl9pffollow "From Development Git Tree"16:14
MmadAdl9pf: You mean ?16:16
MmadAdl9pf: Sorry for so many questions. ;)16:16
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BTto run QT, is there any lib needed?16:21
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Sagefabo: welcome to the club :)16:32
Stskeepsi vote for '504' tshirts ;)16:32
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BTwhen trying to run qtdemo then some error, GLES2 & EGL calls will result in failure. segmentation fault"16:35
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BTany one has tried QT on meego on BB?16:44
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dl9pfBT there's an issue with qt finding the correct *GL setting, iirc no solution - maybe also buggy driver on beagle16:47
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Stskeepsor non-existent :P16:47
Stskeepsyou should just replace libGLESv2 with the right impl16:47
Stskeepsthe open one would only work with a qemu kernel module16:47
Stskeepsand in qemu16:47
dl9pfah - using libgles2-qemu on the beagle itself ?16:48
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Stskeepsdl9pf: well, that's the Trunk gles, you're supposed to provide a GLESv2 impl for your board :P16:49
dl9pfyes, i know ;)16:49
Stskeepswe might be able to get the sgx drivers from meego/n900 on to beagle, we did that in maemo-on-omap16:50
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Stskeepsbut that's a grey area legally16:50
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DuxonHi! May I get here some Meego-support? I cant install Meego on my Samsung nc10.17:49
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DawnFosterdoes it meet the minimum specs here?
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Myrttiwhee, I just broke my sneezing record \o/ 12 sneezes in a row. Feel lightheaded now. Nevermind me, carry on...17:55
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DawnFosterMyrtti: gesundheit :)17:58
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nonamehello does anyone know how to implement a sms sending application in meego using qt4 api? or any reference sites?18:43
Bostiksounds like qt-mobility stuff18:44
nonameis it library name?18:44
w00t_yes, it is18:44
Bostik  basically a new subsystem18:45
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jkuAnyone knows - how one could easily compile low level software for ARM ( E.g. pulseaudio )19:35
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zeenixjku: hi19:37
zeenixjku: why should it be different from building of high-level stuff?19:37
jkuit should not, I was just meaning non qt software.19:38
zeenixpa doesn't use almost anything from gnome19:39
zeenixnot even glib19:39
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jkuautotools just tend to make life a bit more complex19:40
pupnik_meego should have per-app hibernate19:40
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pupnik_but so many things can change in the environment, isolating them and mapping isnt easy19:41
jkuE.g. trying to compile for example: just drives one crazy19:43
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maragatoanyone knows if it's possible to install meego on vmware?20:43
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maragatoguess I'll find out...20:46
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gourmaragato: i've problem with vbox...probably it's similar to vmware20:51
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maragatogour, thanks... I'm trying now, but I'm also asking around for some spare netbook just in case21:01
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CosmoHillgour: what's your problem?21:20
CosmoHillsomething relatied to meego not working on a virtual machine?21:21
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gourCosmoHill: meego UI does not work...i can only get twm running which is not so thrilling21:25
gourunlike my experience with moblin which worked fully under VM21:26
DawnFosterQuick reminder that the next Technical Steering Group (TSG) meeting starts in about 35 minutes. Agenda and logistics here: Anyone can attend.21:26
CosmoHillthanks da21:27
Stskeepsgood to get some names on the various roles now21:27
DawnFosterthis is the TSG that people have been waiting for :)21:27
DawnFosterStructure + names21:28
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* gour hopes meego will evolve into something so that we won't be forced to choose between apple & android21:30
StskeepsDawnFoster: some names i recognise at least, others should pop out and say hi :)21:31
lbtDawnFoster:  has some new links that are 40421:31
lbtjust fyi :)21:32
thiago_homegour: I've been using maemo and I'm happy with it21:32
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thiago_homemeego for me is just the continuation of god work21:32
Stskeepsgood -and- god work? ;)21:32
vgradelbt, OBS ping NAG21:32
* lbt runs screaming21:32
lbtvgrade: done nothing today... I'm bone idle21:33
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gourthiago_home: well i'm looking for some more meego-enabled hardware....n900 is also a bit expensive21:33
vgradelbt, get the message21:33
* Stskeeps wonders what vgrade needs obs for21:33
lbtvgrade: please keep nagging !21:33
thiago_homegour: and the iphone isn't expensive?21:34
lbtpublic humiliation always works for me ...21:34
thiago_homeprice points are very similar there21:34
TSCHAKeee2Stskeeps: translation: "It's not that we don't trust you or anything, but some of us would like our own build server..." ;)21:34
* TSCHAKeee2 laughs21:34
* lbt mentions
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gourthiago_home: well, at least here, ipod is available with some phone providers...same with htc devices, while none of the mobile-phomne providers offers n900...only possibility is to buy unlocked one which costs as e.g. 2 dell's 1012 netbooks21:35
lbtquestion... should try and fix utf8/xml issues in my Qt app or import MeeGo 1.0 into community OBS ??21:36
pupnik_lord please a 5" screen meego phone21:36
DawnFosterlbt: yeah, those are the pages they are still editing :)21:37
lbtpupnik_: won't happen. Meego only supports 4"21:37
DawnFosterwe work in real-time here21:37
leinirpupnik_: "phone" ;)21:37
lbtDawnFoster: np... I'm just too quick21:37
pupnik_:) well, 3g tablet21:37
DawnFosteryeah, we didn't say you could look at those pages yet ;)21:38
vgradestskeeps, with no luck in getting access to EMGD, I offered to do some testing for lbt21:39
Stskeepsvgrade: makes sense21:39
Erkan_Yilmazadmins can protect page, so they ar enot editable for a certain time DawnFoster21:39
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vgradestskeeps, only he is having EULA issues as I don;t have a N90021:40
lbtvgrade: not me...21:40
Stskeepsvgrade: legal stuff's a bitch sometimes :) information should be free! or something21:40
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DawnFosterErkan_Yilmaz: we know - we do that sometimes, but it seemed easier and more transparent to just edit the pages21:40
lbtI was just info gathering so I could answer potential questions21:40
Erkan_Yilmazsure, I guess not everyone reads it anyways :-)21:41
lbtX-Fade must have fallen asleep under a pillow or something...21:41
thiago_homegour: oh, well, n900 wasn't made for mass-markets...21:41
thiago_homegour: we've always said it's the fifth step in a six-step program21:41
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lbtum... 4/521:41
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thiago_homelbt: compile your app with QT_NO_CAST_FROM_ASCII and QT_NO_CAST_TO_ASCII21:41
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thiago_homethat will reveal your codec error21:41
* lbt knew you couldn't resist ;)21:42
lbtyou can have a free copy of Shopper for that!21:42
gourthiago_home: still, i hope it won't stay niche eternally...we want to write app to run on meego-powered smart-phone (it can be used on netbook as well, but smart-phone size iz more practical and make it more portable) is n9 6th step?21:44
lbtInformatiQ: pingy....21:44
thiago_homegour: I will completely ignore the "n9" reference21:45
gourthiago_home: it is not certain?21:46
Stskeepsit's a bit unfair to ask qt people about what other depts of nokia does :)21:46
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thiago_homegour: no, it's just that I won't comment on a rumour about a device name21:46
gourthiago_home: ahh, ok. but n900's successor is supposed to be 6th step, right?21:47
thiago_homegour: but, to answer your question, the sixth step (whichever device that is) is supposed to be a full-breadth device yes21:47
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gourthiago_home: good...shall we see it this year?21:47
thiago_homecan't comment on that21:48
shazkhanwho deals with security in meego effort?21:48
thiago_homepersonally I hope for the soonest, of course.21:48
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thiago_homebut then again I would want to see the successor to the n900's successor tomorrow too :-)21:48
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gourok...however, it looks it will be arm device21:49
DawnFostershazkhan: Ryan Ware does some of the security stuff for MeeGo21:49
Stskeepsgour: that's fairly known. there was this slide in maemo summit that harmattan will be omap3 as well, and since harmattan isn't coming to n900... logical step is what?21:50
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StskeepsDawnFoster: big plus on not mentioning affiliation in the pages, btw21:51
gourheh...i just wonder what will be handheld ui used for then?21:51
shazkhanthanks DawnFoster21:51
Stskeepsa timezone or general location would be good at some point, but so it goes21:51
DawnFosterStskeeps: I think Valtteri is making the updates, so you can thank him :)21:51
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DawnFosterMaybe I'll go through later and link to their profiles so people can find them more easily later21:52
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CosmoHillsomeone poke me when the meeting is about to start :)21:53
* lbt passes CosmoHill a at21:53
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* CosmoHill puts it in the draw for later21:55
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shazkhanDawnFoster: I cannot find any docs in which we can see whats up in security. If there is anything available then I'd like to try the sdk ...should I? I am more interested in the os base and middle-ware21:56
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lbtthiago: you think... maybe? :)21:57
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DawnFostershazkhan: Ping Ryan to see what documentation is available on security.21:58
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lbtthiago_home: you think... maybe? :)22:01
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lcuklbt that looks painful22:04
thiago_homelbt: that looks like a codec error22:04
thiago_homeQString's constructor uses Latin122:04
lbtISTR there was no QFile when I wrote that22:04
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lbtI'll rewrite that whole area22:05
lbtanyhow... meeting22:05
thiago_homelbt: you want QString::fromUtf8 or QString::fromLocal8Bit22:06
thiago_homedepending on which one is appropriate22:06
thiago_homeif it's XML, you may want to simply pass the byte array directly into QXmlStreamReader and it will detect the encoding according to XML rules22:06
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lbtmakes sense... I was thrashing about when I wrote that a couple of years or so ago22:07
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ATWILSONjoin #meego-meeting22:12
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Stskeepsneed a slash :)22:12
shazkhanmaybe it's an invitation ....22:13
ATWILSONwhat I get for trying to IRC while eating a pickle ;-)22:13
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Stskeeps if you want to catch up on meeting log22:13
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lbtcan we have a "hands up" please.... and then Dawn can call on us when it's our 'turn'22:30
lbtDawnFoster: ^^22:30
ameya;) I wish there was a hands up smily22:30
DawnFosternot changing the process mid-way thru the meeting22:30
DawnFosterhand up in irc is too hard to manage with this many people22:31
lbtyeah but it comes over as "shut up and wait your turn" ... and I'm sure it's not22:31
sjokkisare module proposals sent to the dev list, or somewhere else?22:32
sjokkisand is there a dev irc channel?22:32
thiago_homesjokkis: yes22:33
thiago_homesjokkis: it's this one here :-)22:33
Erkan_Yilmaz_how about also collecting questions before meeting on wiki?22:33
sjokkisah, i thought this was more of a general user channel22:33
lcukErkan_Yilmaz_, theres many ways practical22:34
lcukut usually the questions arent known until the meeting is in progress22:34
lbtsjokkis: there are specific dev channels for some areas22:34
lbteg meego-arm22:34
sjokkislbt: is there a list somewhere?22:34
Erkan_Yilmaz_I guess when the topic would be more explicit before meeting, it could lead to more interesting questions22:34
lcukwe have had a -questions channel previously but it felt disjointed, so its an open meeting and i think passing the mic around is a good and fair way22:34
lbtsjokkis: the meego wiki ... but not a list22:35
Erkan_Yilmaz_lcuk, yes22:35
lcukErkan_Yilmaz_, the wiki has overview of points to raise22:35
lcukyou can always discuss and make notes beforehand22:35
lcukyou can even suggest your own topics i believe - whether they will be discussed is another matter22:35
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sjokkislbt: if i have a proposal for both the netbook and mobile versions, will i have to approach two teams?22:36
lcuksjokkis, just start working, but from experience, taking a smaller application on mobile and expanding it to netbook/slate factor is easier and less troublesome22:37
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lcuktheres nothing worse than finding out your UI doesnt work on a tiny screen22:37
lcukbut you can always stretch out on a netbook22:37
* TSCHAKeee2 hi-fives lbt for the good question22:38
sjokkislcuk: this is for zeitgeist, if you know what that is. it would be a matter of porting the daemon (may or may not involve any work at all), and then writing applications that use it for the netbook/mobile versions22:38
sjokkislcuk: those applications wouldn't necessarily be the same on both versions, of course22:38
lcukwith qt, why not?22:40
sjokkisthe applications could use QT, sure22:40
sjokkisthe daemon is in python22:40
sjokkisjust started that way, i guess22:41
sjokkisit works very well. it's lightweight, so it doesn't really matter22:41
ameyawhy there are two channels meego-dev and meego-devel?22:42
lcuksure - for now, what if you get on a platform that doesnt support it ?22:42
sjokkisa platform without python?22:42
sjokkisif we're running on netbooks and smartphones, i don't really see why that would happen22:42
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sjokkislcuk: you foresee it being a problem?22:44
lbtmmm I don't think that really got discussed22:44
lbtI think that is because everything mentioned by name is internal to MeeGo the product.... it kinda feels introverted22:45
lcuksjokkis, we dont know what each instance will have, theres a lot of waryness related to additional components22:45
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sjokkislcuk: but you require qt, in all instances?22:49
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lcuksjokkis, i dont require anything22:49
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sjokkisheh. meego, not you personally22:49
lcukgo and read the
lcukthe only thing fixed there is qt22:50
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orospakrHow much of the Nokia Maemo team (clearly a very talented bunch as evidenced) is working on MeeGo?22:52
thiago_homeorospakr: Nokia Maemo is now called Nokia MeeGo22:52
thiago_hometherefore, all of them22:52
thiago_homewell, except for the remainder still working on Maemo 522:52
pinchartlthiago_home: what about maemo 6 ? has that been renamed meego ?22:54
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sjokkispinchartl: merged into meego22:54
thiago_homepinchartl: that is also meego22:54
thiago_homeharmattan is meego (somehow)22:54
pinchartl*somehow* :-)22:54
sjokkislcuk: i can certainly see the argument for not wanting to include dependency on python, but i don't think it's a problem for smartphones today, and even less so for smartphones tomorrow22:54
sjokkisand it obviously isn't a problem for netbooks22:55
sjokkisthis will probably be discussed for quite a while though22:55
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lbtsometimes I think these are more press-releases than meetings...22:57
TSCHAKeee2feels that way a bit22:57
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TSCHAKeee2i'm still trying to figure out a way i can fit in.22:58
TSCHAKeee2i seem to not fit neatly into ANY of the boxes22:58
vgradesame here22:58
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lcukparty political broadcast, but one where we do talk and get feedback :)22:58
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TSCHAKeee2i mean, my work with LinuxMCE22:58
lcukTSCHAKeee2, you want your app sat on meego - do it?22:58
lbtTSCHAKeee2: well, like someone said earlier, there is no "outreach" from MeeGo.22:58
TSCHAKeee2covers ALL of the "boxes"22:58
TSCHAKeee2lcuk: I am, but I wanted to do it in the open.22:59
lbtwell, I said that :)22:59
lcuki thought you were22:59
lcukyou are linuxmce?22:59
lbtbut someone asked who to contact22:59
TSCHAKeee2*nod* just..trying to figure out how i fit in.22:59
TSCHAKeee2lcuk: I am one of the lead devs.22:59
lbtmaybe you should ask DawnFoster TSCHAKeee2? She said she looks after devs?22:59
lcukright TSCHAKeee2 so you have a role?23:00
TSCHAKeee2and I am doing the port of LinuxMCE to MeeGo, as soon as our current release cycle ends.23:00
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lbtTSCHAKeee2: well, the OBS will also help there23:00
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lbtbut I feel that that is a skunkworks project23:00
TSCHAKeee2well it gets interesting there, because we have our own build server/system heheheh23:00
TSCHAKeee2and yes23:00
TSCHAKeee2i feel it might very well be23:00
lcukTSCHAKeee2, i dont get what you need permission for?23:00
TSCHAKeee2not permission...23:00
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TSCHAKeee2just trying to figure out where the hell i would best fit.23:01
lcukthen what stops your from hacking linuxmce front end onto meego?23:01
lbtmost likely way to succceed23:01
GAN900Well, that was thoroughly unenlightening.23:01
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lcuki thought it was quite informative23:01
* lbt really must investigate konversation to find a way to s/GAN900/Marvin_the_paranoid_android/23:01
TSCHAKeee2my goal is to put the entire linuxmce stack, on meego.. both the core, and the media directors.23:02
lcukmind you, ive got blood pouring out of my mouth23:02
TSCHAKeee2as well as making tablet environments, etc.23:02
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lcukand can barely talk, so i might be in the wrong frame of mind23:02
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lcukTSCHAKeee2, you want to recreate a new linuxmce using meego tooling?23:03
* VDVsx nominates GAN900 for the community office :P23:03
sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: looking at the screenshots of linuxmce now. looks pretty rad. how much of it is working, and how much is just mockup?23:03
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: well...all of it.23:03
DawnFosterTSCHAKeee2: The best place to start that discussion is in the mailing list - give us a better idea of what you want to see happen and suggestions for how it might fit in23:03
sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: all of it which? :p23:03
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: the whole stack has been around for 6 years now.23:03
* thiago_home needs to talk to arjan in another subject too23:03
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: google video "linuxmce 0704 demo"23:04
thiago_homewhat netbook models do people recommend?23:04
sjokkisthiago_home: very happy with my 10" eee23:04
thiago_homeI'm trying to order one, but the one arjan recommended the Nokia Sourcing people told me they can't get to norway23:04
sjokkisthiago_home: 10 inches is enough for most people23:04
thiago_homesjokkis: Atom and Intel graphics?23:04
GAN900VDVsx, I totally missed that naming discussion.23:04
sjokkisthiago_home: yes23:04
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lcukthiago_home, intel graphics that arent intel gma50023:04
TSCHAKeee2lcuk: and yes.. we have a _LOT_ of vestigial code, that was written before most of the free software world caught up... I would like to see how much of it can be replaced with upstream code.23:05
sjokkisthiago_home: 1000H. though if i were to get one now, i'd get the upgraded version with 10 hours battery (or thereabouts)23:05
thiago_homethe one arjan recommended had a touchscreen w/ multitouch23:05
sjokkisthiago_home: not sure. let me check23:05
lcukTSCHAKeee2, hint, the Linux in LinuxMCE should tell me enough to know you were already in an open source world ;)23:05
GAN900VDVsx, too many words for me to read at work. :P23:05
VDVsxGAN900, image at the end23:06
TSCHAKeee2lcuk: hehehehe, what I meant was,23:06
sjokkisthiago_home: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)23:06
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TSCHAKeee2lcuk: just one example, we built an entire PnP layer, long before a lot of equivalent stuff existed "upstream"23:06
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TSCHAKeee2lcuk: and have been systematically peeling it back and replacing it with upstream stuff23:06
TSCHAKeee2lcuk: we also wrote massive chunks of code to repair the system when things like graphics cards or network cards changed etc..23:07
lcukso you are a linux distribution unto yourselves23:07
TSCHAKeee2lcuk: yes.23:07
TSCHAKeee2we are built atop Ubuntu currently23:08
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TSCHAKeee2which was transposed over from an earlier build based on Debian.23:08
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TSCHAKeee2we took over the project, from the company that did the initial development...and it took us two years, just to wrap our brains around it.23:09
sx0n|homesomeone should invent MeeGo Certified Hardware stickers23:09
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thiago_homesx0n|home: I think you've just volunteered!23:10
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TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: watching the video?23:10
sjokkiswatching the matrix actually. hang on...23:10
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lcuksjokkis, first one?23:11
sjokkislcuk: yes. it's really good. too bad they didn't make any sequelss23:12
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lcukyeah sjokkis they wouldv been cool to watch23:12
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TSCHAKeee2I guess the reason I am being so inquisitive is... the one thing I DO not want to happen, is I don't want to work in a cave for X units of time, and do a big reveal...23:13
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sx0n|homethat sticker would need validation software23:14
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sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: this is pretty cool. how well does it work in unison with media centre applications such as xbmc?23:14
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TSCHAKeee2what font is used for the MeeGo logo ?23:14
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sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: or does it replace those?23:15
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: we provide a UPNP server, and we do use djmount to mount upnp shares elsewhere in the house (it is currently disabled pending some auditing work.)....but if you'd want to be able to control an xbmc instance, someone would need to write a DCE device to talk its HTTP API.23:15
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: tenatively, it replaces those...but there is nothing that states it can't work with them23:16
sjokkisthe HTTP API kinda sucks really23:16
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: yeah.23:16
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: the system can pretty much integrate anything.23:16
thiago_homehttp-over-udp, who could have thought of that23:16
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sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: i'll spring for it when i've got my master's an a cushy consulting job23:17
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: to give you an idea, I've got a setup here utilizing an array of RFID transmitters for presence detection.23:17
lcukthiago_home, the data isnt the issue?23:17
sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: presence of what? you?23:17
lcuktheres many UDP services that use SOAP xml and stuff23:17
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: yes.23:17
sjokkisTSCHAKeee2: can't it just detect your mobile phone?23:17
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: yes, it can.23:17
sjokkiscertainly saved you some effort there, didn't i23:18
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TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: technically ANYTHING that generates a presence detected event can be used to determine presence23:18
sjokkismobile and a bluetooth transmitter, and you're done23:18
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: i.e. pressing a key on a workstaiton keyboard, etc.23:18
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: hehheheh23:18
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: you're naiive23:18
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TSCHAKeee2you haven't done that practically, i see.23:18
sjokkisi have, so i know it sucks23:18
sjokkiswhat do you use for your sensor array? zigbee?23:18
lcukthats it, im getting this RFID tag implanted23:19
TSCHAKeee2lots of different things23:19
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TSCHAKeee2i have a 1-wire bus, z-wave here..but we can pretty much deal with anything so long as somebody writes a DCE device for it.23:19
* lcuk pushes it in the hole from tooth23:19
TSCHAKeee2we have drivers for lots of different automation buses23:19
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GAN900Whatever happened to just openning images in a new goddamn window?23:20
sjokkislcuk: i think injecting it subdermally is a lot less effort23:20
* GAN900 is so tired of js image galleries.23:20
TSCHAKeee2and a developer just added support for the TED 5000 energy monitor23:20
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sjokkisGAN900: what are we? animals?23:20
lcuksjokkis, im just thinking of whats to hand, i had a tooth extracted today23:20
lcukso i have room for it23:20
TSCHAKeee2so that you can monitor energy consumption and act upon it.23:20
GAN900sjokkis, hmm?23:20
sjokkisdo you have support for any automated espresso machines?23:20
sjokkisGAN900: images galleries not using javascript? it sounds barbaric23:21
TSCHAKeee2the funny thing is, even with all that we can do now, we still have another good 20 years of polishing to do.23:21
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: they exist?23:21
sjokkisthere are coffee makers that can be set on a timer, sure23:21
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: if they did, a new device driver for them could be written in about 10 minutes.23:21
sjokkisi don't know if they have any means of being controlled remotely23:21
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sjokkisbut you have coffee machines that hook into the water pipes, and start on a timer23:22
lcuksjokkis, i doubt theres a device on the planet that hasnt been put under the control of a linux kernel at some time ;)23:22
GAN900sjokkis, sounds like it wouldn't make it an absolute pain to view on my N900. :P23:22
sjokkisof course, ground coffee goes stale overnight23:22
TSCHAKeee2basically any device that is RS232/485, Ethernet, USB, Firewire,  can have a driver written for it using our tools23:22
lcukGAN900, argggg indeed23:22
lcuki was on som silly flash site23:22
lcukthat needed me to pan in the flash to view images23:22
TSCHAKeee2so long as there is a way to get data to it, and from it.. doesn't really matter.23:23
GAN900lcuk, for a supposedly mobile-oriented distribution, isn't always very mobile friendly.23:23
GAN900lcuk, ugh.23:23
lcukGAN900, ohhh its something on the server?23:23
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GAN900lcuk, that stupid governance page23:24
TSCHAKeee2sjokkis: and in the case of let's say.. rs232 controlled AV equipment, we have code that detects if the equipment was manually switched, and adjust itself accordingly...also since the system knows how the devices are connected, to what ports ,etc... as well as how to control them, it adjusts all the remote control devices to send button presses etc to the right devices dynamically.23:24
GAN900JS gallery to view the diagram fullsize23:24
* TSCHAKeee2 turns off pitch mode and stfu.23:24
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GAN900Which means tap, wait, tap, wait. . . .23:24
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lcukGAN900, i dunno i just middle clicked it23:25
lcukand it opened in new tab23:25
GAN900lcuk, where's the middle click on an N900?23:25
GAN900It's not unfriedly to desktops23:25
lcuki nearly made one last night :P23:25
GAN900(just freaking obnoxious)23:25
lcuki was mucking about with the camera and gestures behind lol23:26
TSCHAKeee2GAN900: click and hold while hanging upside down . :P23:26
lcukin a dark room with the torch on you can basically map brightness to distance23:26
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lcukGAN900, tried tap hold / new window?23:26
TSCHAKeee2be sure to twist your wrist, so you tap from the opposite end23:26
TSCHAKeee2being double jointed helps.23:27
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CosmoHill70 people in the meeting channel still23:58
lcukCosmoHill, waiting for punch n pie23:59
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CosmoHillmaybe like me they were backreading23:59

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