IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-05-25

JayElOpiahello00:00
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CosmoHillhi00:01
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JayElOpiahow do i start developing with or on meegoand what do i need00:06
CosmoHillI think you need the SDK creator program00:08
happyblobhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=10900:08
JayElOpiahow do i get the program?00:09
DawnFosterHere's some additional documentation on getting started: http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment00:10
CosmoHillpost 300:10
CosmoHill*400:10
CosmoHillhey daw00:10
CosmoHillhey DawnFoster00:10
CosmoHillenjoying the weather?00:10
DawnFosterhey cosmohill00:10
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CosmoHillwe've had 8 non-stop days of nice weather00:11
DawnFosterwe've had crappy weather - cold, rain00:11
CosmoHillI'm predicting the weather will turn crap as soon as school is out for the summer00:11
JayElOpiathanks00:12
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JayElOpiaif i run into any hiccups00:12
CosmoHillsee JayElOpia, we're not evil00:12
JayElOpiai'll be sure to cry00:12
JayElOpiaok00:12
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JayElOpia@CosmoHill thabks for the vote of confidence... i was just treading softly00:13
JayElOpia*thanks00:14
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CosmoHill^.^00:20
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TSCHAKeeemaaan00:40
TSCHAKeeea lot of very pissed off people that flash 10.1 isn't coming to maemo 5.00:40
CosmoHillhmm00:40
CosmoHillI have 10.1 RC and it's goodish00:40
Stskeepsdid anyone confirm anything regarding that?00:40
CosmoHillbetter performance than 10 and doesn't seem to crash as much00:41
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* GAN900 wonders01:20
GAN900Maemo doesn't necessarily mean not N900.01:20
TSCHAKeee*nod*01:21
TSCHAKeeeproblem is, Nokia has done a bang up job confusing everyone01:21
DocScrutinizernow it's more GAN900 who confuses me with his statement ;-)01:22
TSCHAKeeeTHE WHITE ZONE01:22
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TSCHAKeeeIS FOR LOADING AND UNLOADING01:22
DocScrutinizerGO TO THE WHITE ZONE01:23
arjanVIOLATORS WILL BE TOAD01:23
DocScrutinizerIT'S A WAY OF LIFE01:23
CosmoHillWHY IS EVERYONE SHOUTING?01:23
DocScrutinizerTSCHAKeee started it ;-)01:23
TSCHAKeeeheheheh01:23
TSCHAKeee:)01:23
DocScrutinizerprobably every word of F.Zappa is conceived bold and loud01:24
TSCHAKeeehehehe01:24
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TSCHAKeeeJoe's Garage FTMFW01:24
TSCHAKeee:)01:24
GAN900TSCHAKeee, yeah, they're good at that.01:26
GAN900They love flashy announcements01:26
GAN900but they hate saying anything negative.01:26
DocScrutinizerGAN900: what is ""Maemo doesn't necessarily mean not N900""?01:27
GAN900and sometimes they hate saying anything at all.01:27
GAN900+Not at the beginning.01:27
DocScrutinizeraah01:27
DocScrutinizerk01:27
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TSCHAKeeei look around, and I see01:28
TSCHAKeeehordes01:28
TSCHAKeeeof pissed off people01:28
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DocScrutinizerol01:28
DocScrutinizer:-P01:28
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TSCHAKeeei mean, pissed off users are a given in any community01:29
TSCHAKeeebut nokia isn't doing anything to put out fires.01:29
DocScrutinizerat least they somehow stopped blowing into it01:29
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GAN900lol01:32
GAN900Yeah, well, Nokia as a company still isn't behind Maemo01:32
GAN900So it's no surprise.01:32
GAN900Nor MeeGo01:33
GAN900Anssi the dinosaur01:33
GAN900It's like that Trout Fishing in America song01:33
GAN900except he doesn't have to wish.01:33
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rykario_does any one know how to get meego running on the always innovating touchbook?03:53
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TSCHAKeeerykario_, it hasn't been done yet03:55
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rykario_I am aware that the touchbook is based off of the beagle board but I've made several attempts with those instructions and have had no luck03:55
TSCHAKeeeinteresting, where are you getting stuck?03:56
rykario_so far I was using the wireless and other files from /etc from the touchbook os (wireless and touch specifically) but I have only gotten megoo to show a boot screen after which it either freezes or stays on that boot screen03:58
TSCHAKeeehm03:58
rykario_frankly though I've had little luck with the device on the whole seems that it has very limited support03:59
happyblobhave you tried asking in meego-arm?04:03
rykario_no this is the first place I have asked04:04
CosmoHillcyas04:05
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happyblobi think they're working hard towards the n900 at the moment but plan to target more arm hardware in the near future, but i couldn't guess if/when touchbook support would come04:06
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TSCHAKeee*scratch-head* ... so we have the qml stuff... but they're targeting mobile stuff first.... but we're seeing the Netbook UX firrst.... ... wha?06:47
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reshwindbladehmm, MeeGo going to be using WebKit right? but Maemo is Gecko?07:57
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StskeepsREMINDER: N900 hardware adaptation team meeting in 30 minutes in #meego-meeting , agenda on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#Next_meeting - yes, we had a meeting yesterday and today too ;)08:31
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StskeepsREMINDER: N900 hardware adaptation team meeting in 5 minutes in #meego-meeting , agenda on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#Next_meeting08:55
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Myrttimurh10:27
pupnikmoo10:29
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Stskeepsmorn slaine11:29
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slainehowdy howdy howdy11:29
pupnikso who is good at dsp programming.  we need dosbox soundblaster emulation on dsp11:30
timeless_mbpheh11:32
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crashanddieso what exactly is the thing about meeting times in MeeGo?11:38
Stskeepshmm?11:39
crashanddieI mean, when I was in Australia, all the meetings were happening after 2AM, and now that I'm in Europe, they're happening at 7AM (well, an improvement at least)11:39
crashanddiebut whose idea is it to put meetings at 6AM UTC, can someone point out the rationale of it when announcing meetings rather than just randomly changing times?11:40
Stskeepswe've always at the n900 meeting at 6am utc11:40
StskeepsTSG and others are usually later in the day11:40
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odin_right thats it, someone setup a "google calendar" for meego events and stick it up on a wiki11:41
crashanddielol, odin_ the troll is actually saying "right, that's it"? Nice.11:41
odin_call it "MeeGo Working Groups"11:41
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freiksenet2hello! is there any lisp or scheme available on meego? (apart from emacs lisp)13:08
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bpeelfreiksenet2: I think there's a package for guile13:14
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freiksenet2bpeel: ok, thanks13:36
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pupnik"There are quite a few things in this area I want to work on such as automating builds of new test versions of the OS users can just extract to an SD to try and provide feedback on...."13:41
pupnikmeego should do this13:41
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lcukpupnik, EVERY os should do this13:47
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pupnikwhy cant we manually assist the gps lock?13:53
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SurfaI assume you mean gps fix.. how did you plan to do that?13:55
Surfagps receiver needs to get satellite calendar in every case and it may be a little difficult to help it manually13:56
linuxcentosany news on upoming meego smart phones?13:58
linuxcentosupcoming*13:58
pupnikSurfa: look up agps13:58
Surfapupnik, yes, and it changes the case how? :)13:59
pupnikother data (celltower) is used to tell gps where you are13:59
pupnikthat speeds fix by 1000x sometimes13:59
Surfapartly true13:59
pupnikcould also be user-input13:59
pupnikvery silly that is not implemented on n90014:00
Stskeepsthat's called agps..14:00
Surfaagps not implemented? are you sure14:00
Surfabecause it certainly is14:01
pupnikno user assist iks implemented14:01
pupnik-k14:01
pupniksee the linem right above it?14:01
pupnikthat is called context14:01
Surfawhich device has that sort of implementation?14:01
pupniknone i know14:02
pupnikwhy not14:02
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Surfathere are reasons14:08
Surfamay be found in agps docs you referres14:08
Surfad14:08
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CosmoHill"I'm obsessed with the mess that's America" << good lyric :)15:41
reshwindbladethat was rather random...15:41
w00t_welcome to CosmoHill15:41
CosmoHillyes, it does help that I'm watching a music channel15:42
reshwindbladei am reading how windows phone 7 development will fail due to the restricted APIs and no native SDK support15:42
lcukCosmoHill, its about time you took your medication :p15:42
CosmoHillI haven't taken it since september15:42
CosmoHill200815:42
CosmoHill>.>15:42
CosmoHill<.<15:43
crashanddietaken "them"15:43
reshwindbladeah brb ill check logs later dinner time15:43
CosmoHillthanks crashanddie15:43
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Andy___Hello, where has the ARM package gone ?16:10
Andy___packages16:10
CosmoHillnorth wales16:12
CosmoHillit was a good time of year16:12
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Andy___seriously, are the rpm packages for ARM permanently deleted ?16:29
lcukwell if someone downloaded them before they can put em up again? or rebuild from source?16:30
Andy___sure its possible, but since they are gone now, is that by accident or intentional ?16:31
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happyblobAndy___ newbie here so might have the wrong end of the stick but this is in the irc logs for the meego-arm meeting this morning:16:37
happyblob08:37 < Sage> During last 24h the arm repositories for "codedrop" have been removed so images for that can not be even made by users anyore.16:37
happyblob08:38 < Sage> kad: any news when any arm repositories will come back online?16:37
happyblob08:39 < kad> Sage: no. anas already gone sleeping I assume, so next cance for me to ask is after 9 hours16:37
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happyblobnot sure if that tells you what you're looking for16:38
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Andy___happyblob: ok, thanks16:38
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Andy___seems to be more than me that are missing them16:39
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Nadleyhi everybody20:11
pupnikhuhu20:12
CosmoHillHi Dr Nadley20:12
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NadleyI read a news and I would like to know if is it true. Nokia said that they didn't build a rom of Meego for the N90020:13
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* TSCHAK facepalms20:13
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zaheerm-lpNadley, nokia will not provide support or any official nokia meego upgrade for maemo520:14
Nadleyok :(20:14
zaheerm-lpNadley, however meego the project will provide builds for n90020:14
TSCHAKNadley, Nokia will not support MeeGo officially. This means, you can't call them up at Nokia Care about it. However, this does not mean, that a MeeGo installation is being done for the N90020:14
TSCHAKisn't rather20:14
TSCHAKit means that the MeeGo community will provide the images20:14
happyblobhave a look at http://wiki.meego.com/ARM20:14
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* TSCHAK idly wonders how many times we'll have to repeat this.20:15
CosmoHillTSCHAKwe need a bot like sploosh20:15
TSCHAKyeah20:15
CosmoHillSploosh is a bot I use on my support channels20:15
CosmoHillwe say a command and it gives a pre-programed response20:15
lcuknot that it matters20:16
arjanthere's also the fun part of getting a device through certification20:16
zaheerm-lpNadley, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5357120:16
lcukmeego isnt technically a nokia project is it?20:16
lcukits a linux foundation one20:16
TSCHAKcorrect.20:16
Nadleyok cool because I will buy a N900 and I'll be very interrested to try meego20:16
CosmoHillshell I fetch the bot?20:16
lcuki would not expect nokia to support me installing MS Windows on my n90020:16
happyblobNadley, you should be able to, but it will be at your own risk thats all20:17
TSCHAKNadley, at this point, don't install it unless you're a developer, and understand that everything is currently a work in progress...20:17
lcukhowever brilliantly we could get it running20:17
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CosmoHillfor some reason I read that as "windows 2000 on my N900"20:17
lcukwouldnt be a bad thing20:17
zaheerm-lplcuk, but you would expect them to support you reinstalling windows 7 on your nokia booklet20:17
CosmoHilltrue20:17
CosmoHillWindows 2000 is very fast compared to XP when using Virtual PC on my mac20:17
lcukzaheerm-lp, if my booklet came with windows 7, sure20:17
lcuk(i dont know what it has)20:17
NadleyI'm not planning to install it before it works well20:17
zaheerm-lplcuk, it does20:17
zaheerm-lpNadley, define: work well20:18
TSCHAKyup guys, get your macros ready  for the flood of "OHEMGEE, IS IT TROO THAT MEEGO NO WORKY ON N900?!"20:18
lcukok then zaheerm-lp sure, same as nokia will support you using maemo on n90020:18
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zaheerm-lpNadley, the meego images will not necessarily include the same ui that nokia will put on their meego devices20:18
lcukwill meego work on the booklet tho20:18
* lcuk ducks20:18
TSCHAKnor will it necessarily work with things like the Ovi Store20:18
zaheerm-lplcuk, no they have gma50020:18
lcukzaheerm-lp, THAT i dont agree with :P20:19
lcukeither of your last 2 posts20:19
lcuktho i suppose if it was a totally open project we could do it20:19
lcuki suppose a community ux could be made :D20:19
TSCHAKplease understand, Meego on the N900 means that those involved will get MeeGo running to the best of their ability on the device, filling in the gaps with closed source code as needed to support hardware... but this is a reference distribution....intended to facilitate development.20:19
Nadleyok I understand when I said "work well" I mean the image are stable and the developpement complete20:20
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TSCHAKNadley, define "complete"20:20
TSCHAK:)20:20
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zaheerm-lplcuk, yes i think nokia should give a licence to their binary stuff that they put on their devices that allow you to use it on other devices sold by nokia20:21
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zaheerm-lplcuk, therefore allowing a community image for n900 that would have similar ui to next meego device20:21
* lcuk wonders how we can be discussing binary userspace applications anyway20:21
lcukor rather, why20:21
lcukif they want uptake and remixes and modificaitons and community - it must be open20:22
TSCHAKzaheerm-lp, basically the "Meego" UX's themselves are reference.20:22
zaheerm-lpso the real question is what part of their UX will be closed..20:22
lcukwell we know everything upto the command line is open so far :D20:23
TSCHAKzaheerm-lp, they will most likely be completely replaced by the target vendor.. see Nokia with Harmattan20:23
zaheerm-lpwill it just be apps, themes and colour schemes or will it be as far as a completely diffeent UX20:23
lcukTSCHAK, if every vendor has to replace every user space application completely from scratch it will fail20:23
NadleyTSCHAK: "complete " like Maemo actually I mean fully working with small issues20:23
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TSCHAKlcuk, they don't HAVE to20:24
TSCHAKlcuk, they just WILL20:24
TSCHAKlcuk, differentiation and all.20:24
lcukif the userspace is incomplete with closed apps then it will fail20:24
lcukunless differentiation means closed apps and a bitmap logo20:24
zaheerm-lpNadley, the meego images will not support skype im/audio/video for example, it is a closed component of maemo520:24
zaheerm-lplcuk, yes lets hope differentiation is just css, a few closed apps, and images...20:25
lcuklets hope the differntiation CAN go further if required20:25
zaheerm-lpbut i am cynical and i think it'll be more than that20:25
lcukthats horrid and slimey and not open source friendly if its the only mechanism20:25
clipartcatTSCHAK, nokia sucks again big time. First iPhone has been updated untill now to new version.20:25
clipartcatsame as with s6020:26
zaheerm-lpand we could have what happened with symbian where you had s60, uiq etc.20:26
clipartcatnew shitty devices, never mind updating them20:26
* TSCHAK shakes head20:26
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TSCHAKmore trolls20:26
Nadleyzaheerm-lp: I know that about skype and other but can I hope for open protocols like xmmp and other ?20:26
clipartcatwhey then don't release version without multitouch for n90020:26
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TSCHAKclipartcat, do you honestly want the answer?20:27
TSCHAKit's very simple20:27
Lazy^Is the repo for n900 chroot .img down ?20:27
lcukre: multitouch  i wonder what happens if i only touch uber multitouch device with 1 finger20:27
lcukand would i need multitple frozen sausages to operate it in winter20:27
zaheerm-lpNadley, yah i believe the free software protocols will be there as part of the telepathy packages20:27
TSCHAKnokia can't realistically support a device with multiple operating systems that people can flash between.20:27
clipartcatTSCHAK, Nokia is so busy sucking with it's business model so it doesn't have resources to pull a version for n90020:27
TSCHAKclipartcat, care to keep talking out of your ass?20:28
lcukclipartcat, qt: code anywhere, develop once, deploy anywhere" isnt that the mantra?20:28
clipartcatlike s60 is been for 10years and apple got 10000x more developers in a month :)20:28
TSCHAKoh fucking hell20:28
TSCHAKtroll20:28
clipartcatwell not really. I think it really sucks :D20:29
zaheerm-lpclipartcat, be happy the same nokia has made the device open enough that you can flash your own OS onto it without any hw mods20:29
* TSCHAK is NOT going to go into the Apps myth again20:29
Nadleyzaheerm-lp: nice I can hope for a fully open-source and compliants with the standars OS for a smartphone20:29
zaheerm-lpNadley, with a few binary blobs for n900 hw support, yes20:30
clipartcatzaheerm-lp, well sometimes I just think that maybe closed device that is actually working could be better.20:30
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zaheerm-lpclipartcat, tell that to the people that bought an htc hero and have been kept waiting many more months than we have for any os update20:31
Nadleyok and who is going to make the rom for the N900 ? Can we have both Maemo and Meego in dual boot ?20:31
zaheerm-lpNadley, there is talk that dual boot will come, lets wait and see20:31
pupnikis not gameboy.  no roms20:31
StskeepsNadley: search meego-dev for 'kexec' and that's current status.20:31
happyblobNadley: check out http://wiki.meego.com/ARM20:31
Nadleyok thanks20:31
Nadleyhappyblob: I'm reading it ;)20:32
Stskeepsthink it's a good time to make a hot cup of tea.20:32
CosmoHillhttp://iphonetheif.blogspot.com/2010/01/iphone-theif-bust.html << how to stalk the crap out of someone20:38
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clipartcatpr1.2 finally fixes these kerning issues with browser. wonder what kind of quality control there is @ nokia when people are stuck half a year with browser like it was.20:40
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zaheerm-lpthe browser was much better than most mobile browsers out there even with the stock firmware when you get the device20:42
lcukclipartcat, quit the trolling, it was a bug thats all20:43
CosmoHillmine just charged you 50p for going online and then not actually letting you go online20:43
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slaineI see it's someone left the door open again20:48
TSCHAKwe need a doorman that can ask a random question to determine relative intelligence. :P20:49
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* slaine yawns and stretches20:52
slaineman, what a day20:52
clipartcati always tought it was the intelligent people who aren't never satisfied what they get.20:52
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Stskeepsslaine: indeed.. a long one here, really tired20:55
Stskeepsa lot of arguments20:55
slaineI was in a management meeting for most of the day20:55
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slaineconstructive, but sucked20:55
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brbrrhi!20:56
Stskeepsevening20:56
brbrrwhen meego will be releace?20:56
Stskeepsslaine: i'm just praising myself happy there's people who 'get' what meego actually is20:57
Stskeepsie, what power it actually is20:57
slainebrbrr: RSN20:57
fralsStskeeps, told you to stay clear of #maemo today ;-)20:57
brbrrslaine: RSN?20:57
slaineReal Soon Now20:58
brbrrits like less than week?20:58
slaineI'd imagine sometime before next Tuesday20:58
slaineWe where told by the end of this month, so that doesn't leave much time20:58
brbrrand is there any info about features of it?20:59
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slaineeverything that we know is on the website21:00
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CosmoHillMy laptop is 66'C, go youtube!21:02
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inzCosmo, 66 minutes Celsius?21:05
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CosmoHillno21:07
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lcukCosmoHill, 66 minutes at speed of light?21:09
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slainealright folks, catch you all tomorrow21:18
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luisthey i rebuilt a moblin application in suse, and im getting this error: http://pastie.org/976760  what could it be?22:06
arjanthat seems to use clutter22:07
arjanso it's not a meego application22:07
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luistarjan, well some ppl here were helping me with some moblin applications few days ago..22:11
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* CosmoHill test one of the forum users (different form)22:39
CosmoHillforum*22:39
CosmoHillif he doesn't respond to my PM / warning but puts his sig back to the way it was I'll ban him22:39
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thiago_homehow big is the PR1.2 thread now?23:45
thiago_homePR1.2 is out :-)23:45
arjanin UK only23:45
Stskeepsthiago_home: not sure which is bigger, pr1.2 thread or 'no commercial meego for n900'23:45
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* thiago_home needs to upgrade his PR1.2 to the newer PR1.223:46
cure`finally23:46
thiago_homeusing pre-release images sucks...23:46
cure`reflash in week or two23:46
cure`+a23:47
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jannegarjan: images for manual flashing are available23:54
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