| DawnFoster | stskeeps - where is the meeting bot running right now? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: on a virtual machine where i also run my IRC client | 00:00 |
| DawnFoster | and are there any other bots that I'm forgetting about? | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | well, there's mgedmin's logs for this channel | 00:00 |
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| Stskeeps | and then i run a seperate one for #meego-arm, but #meego-* should be centrally logged | 00:01 |
| DawnFoster | I assume there isn't anything special we need to run either of those? standard stack stuff? | 00:01 |
| w00t_ | should be | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | just standard stuff | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | maybe a couple of packages, but that's it | 00:01 |
| jrayhawk | I notice a bunch of the infrastructure seems to be pretty slow in getting put up; do you guys need system administrators? | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | jrayhawk: think most of it is because hw is getting ordered and put into OSUOSL | 00:02 |
| DawnFoster | jrayhawk: the hold up is corporate purchasing departments - servers are a capital expense and the ordering process takes flipping forever | 00:03 |
| DawnFoster | as soon as we get the servers, it should be pretty smooth | 00:03 |
| DawnFoster | but we can ask mrshaver if he needs more sysadmin support. | 00:03 |
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| GAN900 | Hopefully expansion planning goes more smoothly with MeeGo than it did with maemo.org. . . . | 00:04 |
| DawnFoster | we have a couple at Intel, another at LF and maybe someone at Nokia who helps, too | 00:04 |
| jrayhawk | I guess that makes sense. I've heard horror stories about Intel IT bureaucracy. | 00:04 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: hahaha. you know I just had that *exact* thought | 00:04 |
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| DawnFoster | no comment :) | 00:04 |
| w00t_ | "it's like the 'maemo new ISP' all over again!" .. | 00:04 |
| arjan | finding rackspace is always fun | 00:04 |
| arjan | ';) | 00:04 |
| * RST38h is having the "you wish" thought a lot lately | 00:04 | |
| arjan | esp if you want physical security etc as well | 00:04 |
| DawnFoster | We're moving everything to OSU & they have a lot of experience scaling infrastructure | 00:05 |
| arjan | and not pay a biiiiiiilion dollars | 00:05 |
| GAN900 | This would be one area where meego.com would be well off tapping maemo.org experience. :) | 00:05 |
| DawnFoster | they run kernel.org and a bunch of other big projects | 00:05 |
| RST38h | You want fun, try IT support at the local office... | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | just assume we'll be a huge project and we should be fine | 00:05 |
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| * Stskeeps has a good impression of osuosl too | 00:05 | |
| DawnFoster | osuosl has huge pipes, lots of expertise and really great people | 00:06 |
| DawnFoster | I wish we'd had stuff like that when I was going to school for comp sci | 00:06 |
| DawnFoster | we did have a UNIX sys admin class, which was awesome | 00:06 |
| DawnFoster | OSU has sys admin classes, open source programming and other cool stuff | 00:07 |
| w00t_ | it can always be worse | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | i had initially thought you were 'just' MBA or whatever, but cool to know you have a comp.sci background too :) bet it comes in handy in a lot of cases | 00:08 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: I started my career as a sys admin | 00:09 |
| DawnFoster | for a bunch of UNIX boxes | 00:09 |
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| Stskeeps | respect ;) | 00:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | indeed. | 00:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | :) | 00:10 |
| DawnFoster | that's how I got roped into open source originally and got more and more fascinated with the way the communities worked together to get so much killer stuff done. | 00:10 |
| DawnFoster | :) | 00:10 |
| * arjan is glad he never did comp.sci... and thinking of it, not really sysadmin jobs either (more programming ones) | 00:10 | |
| TSCHAKeee | i didn't either | 00:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | am completely self taught | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | i'm happy with some of the stuff i got taught, others are just .. good to have in the back hand | 00:11 |
| DawnFoster | well, I tried programming, too and hated it (C programming) - sys admin was a cool job, tho | 00:11 |
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| TSCHAKeee | was just lucky i grew up in a family with a father who had both money, and an obsession with electronics and computing hardware... | 00:11 |
| w00t_ | I'll be going through education One Day | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | social computing and knowing how communities develop etc come in handy at times | 00:11 |
| w00t_ | when that is I still don't know | 00:11 |
| arjan | I did electrical engineering (focus on chip design). The irony is Intel hiring me for my software work ;-) | 00:11 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i learned how chips were designed by studying schematics... i was just curious.. working my way up through different chips... first cpu i ever studied was the MOS 6502... | 00:13 |
| DawnFoster | TSCHAKeee: I had a grandfather & dad who were huge into ham radio and they eventually got into computers, which is how I ended up there | 00:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | DawnFoster: awesome isn't it? ;) | 00:13 |
| DawnFoster | I also have a ham radio license :) | 00:13 |
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| DawnFoster | not that I've used it really | 00:13 |
| lcuk | o_O SMS by morse code | 00:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | heeheee | 00:13 |
| lcuk | who needs portrait keyboard | 00:14 |
| lcuk | we have a beeper doofer | 00:14 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, I wish I remembered more morse code. | 00:14 |
| lcuk | that would be awesome thinking about it | 00:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | amateur packet radio impressed the hell out of me | 00:14 |
| DawnFoster | it's been 20-25 years since I used it, I think | 00:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | even moreso that they hooked it up to the internet... | 00:14 |
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| TSCHAKeee | stories of guys with mobile internet connections in their cars, with packet radios | 00:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | in the early 80s | 00:15 |
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| DawnFoster | stskeeps: I talked to Lance at OSU and we should be OK for our IRC stuff at OSU. They have special rules if you were going to set up something like a freenode server, but for logs / bots we should be fine. | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: sounds sane | 00:28 |
| Stskeeps | thanks for asking | 00:28 |
| jrayhawk | I can also host stuff at PSU pretty easily if that should be desirable. | 00:28 |
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| jrayhawk | Like, immediately. | 00:29 |
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| lbt | jrayhawk: I think that stuff has been agreed upon, and by the sound of it it's a fair few racks full of kit | 00:33 |
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| DawnFoster | it's really just a matter of waiting for hardware to arrive at OSU. We have everything hosted right now here in Portland, but we'll have a better setup at OSU (more scalable) | 00:36 |
| DawnFoster | and we're trying to avoid moving things more than once :) | 00:36 |
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| DawnFoster | I could move the logs / bots to our servers now, but then we'd have to move them again. | 00:36 |
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| Stskeeps | i think it's probably better to just set up when we're settled in - more long term | 00:37 |
| Stskeeps | for now, they're not going anywhere | 00:37 |
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| lbt | what's the ETA DawnFoster? | 00:39 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: that's the million dollar question :) | 00:39 |
| * lbt is wondering whether some of the volunteers could do with some VMs to start playing on | 00:39 | |
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| DawnFoster | I know the servers are ordered, but the purchasing process takes some time. | 00:40 |
| lbt | Tero + Neils gave me a machine and a week or so later I have an OBS and process kinda ready to redeploy on real hardware | 00:41 |
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| lbt | so I'm wondering if there's merit in getting people to setup environments *knowing* that they need redeployment | 00:41 |
| X-Fade | lbt: Optimistic as always ;) | 00:41 |
| lbt | heh | 00:42 |
| lbt | actually, pessimistic about when the real gear will arrive | 00:42 |
| X-Fade | But indeed not a small effort. | 00:42 |
| Efan | Hi can any body let me know what do i need to do too see my N900 on my Linux/windows PC, Meego is installed on n900 and it is booted. I can not see this device when I connect with USB to my windows/linux pc | 00:42 |
| DawnFoster | I think that mrshaver and the sys admin at the linux foundation are coordinating the move | 00:43 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I could do with a machine to deploy a release reporting aplication onto | 00:43 |
| DawnFoster | I think we're ready to move things as soon as the boxes arrive | 00:43 |
| X-Fade | OBS security and server security is a thing that really needs to be tested though. | 00:44 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: that's probably a better question for mrshaver | 00:44 |
| lbt | X-Fade: yes, that's what I mean | 00:44 |
| DawnFoster | not sure how we've allocated those machines or what the priorities are | 00:44 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: This is probably for some additional servers Tero ordered. | 00:45 |
| lbt | X-Fade: the OBS? | 00:45 |
| X-Fade | Or I might be wrong and those are the same ones ;) | 00:45 |
| DawnFoster | Yeah, mike and tero both have servers on order :) | 00:45 |
| DawnFoster | I've been asking Mike about the servers almost every day :) | 00:46 |
| X-Fade | "It is coming" ;) | 00:46 |
| DawnFoster | exactly :) | 00:46 |
| lbt | mmm that's what they said about my monitor... 6 weeks later.... | 00:47 |
| lbt | "we'll chase it for you" | 00:47 |
| lbt | too right you will sonny | 00:47 |
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| X-Fade | lbt: Well at least I finally managed to get you one test machine, although that also took 2 months ;) | 00:49 |
| lbt | :D | 00:52 |
| lbt | and look what we got... | 00:52 |
| lbt | although I've been kicking django tonight... | 00:52 |
| lbt | but it's a holiday tomorrow so I may do some anti-scratchbox work then | 00:52 |
| lcuk | lbt, whats up with it | 00:53 |
| lbt | django? or sbox? | 00:53 |
| X-Fade | anti-scratchbox ftw! | 00:54 |
| lbt | actually, I had a thought in the shower... | 00:54 |
| lbt | we could install scratchbox into the obs chroot | 00:55 |
| lbt | Stskeeps ^^ | 00:55 |
| lbt | rpath it | 00:55 |
| Efan | Hi can any one pl help me with this little thing of Meego | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | oi, that was my insane idea | 00:55 |
| lbt | not with rpath | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | don't make it worse | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:55 |
| lbt | that would be quite interesting | 00:55 |
| X-Fade | I have someone else hear speak about that insane idea. | 00:56 |
| X-Fade | I also remeber a certain someone laughing about that idea. | 00:56 |
| Efan | HELLO EVERY ONE CAN ANY ONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH MEEGO AND USB STUFF??? | 00:56 |
| lbt | really putting sbox in would be insane... the workers couldn't cope | 00:56 |
| lbt | but putting the binaries into the chroot | 00:56 |
| lbt | (can anyone else hear a faint voice?) | 00:57 |
| lbt | just wondering about it... | 00:57 |
| lbt | Efan: I've not run MeeGo on my N900 yet - I use a joggler and that has ethernet | 00:58 |
| lbt | much easier :) | 00:58 |
| lbt | plus I like my phone | 00:58 |
| Efan | lbt: any idea hint what should I look into? | 00:58 |
| glinpus | Efan: perhps you need to load usbnet? | 00:59 |
| lbt | not really it's 1am in finland though... don't hold your breath | 00:59 |
| glinpus | that's what my old zaurus uses | 00:59 |
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| lbt | I've not heard of them using usbnet | 01:00 |
| lbt | or usb... but I could easily be wrong | 01:00 |
| lbt | there has been work on wifi though | 01:00 |
| lbt | lr | 01:00 |
| * lbt gets a new 8 | 01:00 | |
| Efan | to load any thing my device has to have any connection and thats waht the problem is itis not recognizing usb | 01:00 |
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| Myrtti | oo, tell me more about your device | 01:03 |
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| lbt | mmm Efan you want an N900 to do usbnet? | 01:08 |
| lbt | which means it needs to be a usb host iirc? | 01:08 |
| thiago_home | plug the USB cable and select "PC suite mode" | 01:09 |
| lbt | and, afaik, the N900 can't do that (although that could be a kernel limitation and meego may have it) | 01:09 |
| lbt | thiago_home: he's running MeeGo FYI... | 01:09 |
| thiago_home | well, if Fremantle can do it, so can MeeGo | 01:09 |
| lbt | yeah, but doesn't the N900 act as a usb gadget in that case? | 01:10 |
| thiago_home | I don't know. It's enough to do USB networking. | 01:10 |
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| lbt | ok - I never plugged mine into a windows box :) | 01:11 |
| thiago_home | on Linux, all it requires doing is ifconfig usb0 on both ends (workstation and device) | 01:12 |
| lbt | cool - didn't realise... always used wifi | 01:15 |
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| Efan | thiago: sry was gone out and could respond, I am hving meego on my N900 no any utility software there | 01:24 |
| thiago_home | right, the current image boots to xterm | 01:24 |
| Efan | yes I can see command parompt and I can do Ls or what every | 01:25 |
| glinpus | so you can do modprobe and ifconfig, no? | 01:25 |
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| Efan | my problem is I want to copy my Qt application on it and see how it runs, I have crossed compile qt app using MADDE | 01:25 |
| thiago_home | Efan: modprobe the kernel module for usb networking, bring up networking, start the ssh server and do the copy | 01:26 |
| Efan | thiago: Ah.. looks like more work :( okay i will try that though dont knwo how to modprobe it for usb networking but will google it and see if I can do it, THANX for your help though | 01:27 |
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| thiago_home | Efan: please understand you're using the early preview of the device-creation image | 01:28 |
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| thiago_home | you don't have an SDK | 01:28 |
| thiago_home | it's just an early preview. The SDK will come later (soon). | 01:28 |
| thiago_home | if you want to develop an app, I recommend you stick to Maemo 5 for now. | 01:29 |
| Efan | thiago: yea I can understand it is still unborn baby :) | 01:29 |
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| Efan | thiago: Maemo is going to be depreciated by nokia as many ppl say on internet thats why we are trying to start for Meego, though I appreciate you suggesion as Maemo will provide much ease for writing app | 01:31 |
| thiago_home | Maemo 5 isn't going anywhere for a while | 01:32 |
| thiago_home | there will be at least one or two more updates to it | 01:32 |
| thiago_home | you can develop your apps for it until there's a good environment for MeeGo anyway | 01:32 |
| thiago_home | you won't be wasting your time doing this, and you'll probably be saving on headaches with the early image | 01:32 |
| Corsac | well, if there are two more updates, that means support for at least one or two years :) | 01:33 |
| thiago_home | I don't know of 2011 plans | 01:33 |
| thiago_home | I meant updates this year | 01:33 |
| thiago_home | PR1.2 is coming out very soon now ™ | 01:34 |
| Corsac | I'm not sure there's enough time this year to ship two updates on top of pr1.2 :) | 01:34 |
| Efan | what is PR1.2?? | 01:34 |
| thiago_home | I meant PR1.2 as one of the updates | 01:34 |
| thiago_home | PR1.3 I'm hoping will carry Qt 4.7 | 01:34 |
| thiago_home | Efan: Product Release | 01:34 |
| thiago_home | it's the version of Maemo 5 you have installed | 01:35 |
| Efan | ah stuipid me | 01:35 |
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| w00t_ | thiago_home: that makes two of us :) | 01:35 |
| * w00t_ is happy with Qt 4.7 | 01:35 | |
| Efan | :) | 01:35 |
| thiago_home | the original plans were PR1.3 with 4.6.3 and 1.4 with 4.7 | 01:35 |
| thiago_home | but then 1.2 got delayed so much... | 01:35 |
| * lcuk hangs his head | 01:35 | |
| * w00t_ blames lcuk for everything | 01:36 | |
| tripzero | 1.2 will have 4.7? | 01:36 |
| tripzero | that'd be cool | 01:36 |
| w00t_ | tripzero: no | 01:36 |
| thiago_home | 1.2 will have 4.6.2 | 01:36 |
| thiago_home | 4.7 isn't finished yet, just entered beta | 01:36 |
| tripzero | oh... that's not as cool :( | 01:36 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home *hopes* it will come in the future :p | 01:36 |
| lcuk | lol | 01:36 |
| thiago_home | however, once 1.2 is out, Qt 4.7 will be in extras-devel | 01:36 |
| Efan | 1.3 will have 4.7 as thiago says | 01:36 |
| w00t_ | Efan: *may* | 01:36 |
| thiago_home | Efan: I hope it will. | 01:36 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, all clean and compatible without conflicts and tears ? | 01:37 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: for once :-) | 01:37 |
| lcuk | sounds good | 01:37 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: Qt on Maemo is ABI compatible from 4.6 upwards (fingers crossed) | 01:37 |
| thiago_home | then we can break again, for other reasons | 01:37 |
| * thiago_home proposes using hard-fp ABI | 01:37 | |
| lcuk | :) cool | 01:37 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: you just like breaking things, don't you/ | 01:37 |
| w00t_ | :P | 01:37 |
| thiago_home | w00t_: I broke QUrl last week | 01:38 |
| * lcuk treads the well used api pathways | 01:38 | |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: that's ok, I've screwed Qt up a few times locally this week | 01:38 |
| thiago_home | my patch got reverted while I was away | 01:38 |
| w00t_ | what was the patch? :-) | 01:39 |
| thiago_home | so we should blame Ubuntu for this | 01:40 |
| w00t_ | wait, what? you were away, so blame ubuntu? :-D | 01:40 |
| thiago_home | fixing QUrl's local file interpretation code, to understand that URLs with no scheme are not local files | 01:40 |
| thiago_home | "/home/foo/bar.jpg" is not "file:///home/foo/bar.jpg" | 01:40 |
| thiago_home | I was away at the Ubuntu Developer Summit | 01:41 |
| w00t_ | ah | 01:41 |
| thiago_home | of course, this broke QtXmlPatterns, QtDeclarative and QtGui's CSS code | 01:41 |
| thiago_home | or, rather, exposed existing bugs | 01:41 |
| lcuk | lol thiago | 01:43 |
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| w00t_ | I should start patching QtGui's CSS stuff :-( | 01:43 |
| w00t_ | I've noticed a few oddities with it | 01:44 |
| * TSCHAK2 notes that PR1.2 speculation thread is by far the largest thread on t.m.o _EVAR_ | 01:44 | |
| TSCHAK2 | soon they'll be making references to duke nukem forever | 01:44 |
| lcuk | TSCHAK2, join in, tell them we said hi and it will be there asap | 01:44 |
| TSCHAK2 | it's only a matter of time. :P :) | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | TSCHAK2: it will come in two weeks | 01:44 |
| thiago_home | :-P | 01:44 |
| lcuk | that was about 2000 pages ago | 01:44 |
| TSCHAK2 | i know, i've been listening | 01:44 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: do you mean second week, 2011? | 01:44 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 01:44 |
| lcuk | we pre installed DNF and removed it again | 01:45 |
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| thiago_home | w00t_: give me two weeks and I'll tell you | 01:45 |
| * Myrtti sniffles her Sharpies | 01:45 | |
| TSCHAK2 | spoken like a true software developer | 01:45 |
| TSCHAK2 | :P | 01:45 |
| b-man | i wonder how many GBs of space that PR1.2 thread is taking up on that server | 01:46 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 02:36 |
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| CosmoHill | night trem | 02:37 |
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| Termana | good morning | 02:47 |
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| ptl | LOL | 03:37 |
| ptl | I just read that the standard fs of meego is btrfs | 03:37 |
| ptl | how unusual. | 03:37 |
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| Aranel | ptl: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODI0NA | 03:38 |
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| ptl | sure, but ubuntu is not an OS for small systems. | 03:40 |
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| TSCHAK2 | why is that unusual? | 03:47 |
| TSCHAK2 | btrfs is a very well designed filesystem | 03:47 |
| TSCHAK2 | that is very efficient in serial reads | 03:48 |
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| ptl | 300MB metada overhead in a 1 GB file system, maybe? | 03:51 |
| ptl | s/metada/metadata/ | 03:51 |
| infobot | ptl meant: 300MB metadata overhead in a 1 GB file system, maybe? | 03:51 |
| ptl | high memory overhead due to all the kernel structures? | 03:51 |
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| ptl | in a device that is already low on memory | 03:51 |
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| * TSCHAK2 rolls eyes... | 03:54 | |
| TSCHAK2 | I see you're in an expert | 03:54 |
| TSCHAK2 | s/in// | 03:54 |
| infobot | TSCHAK2 meant: I see you're an expert | 03:54 |
| TSCHAK2 | have a better suggestion? | 03:55 |
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| TSCHAK2 | ptl, i take it you've been following the LKML ? | 03:55 |
| TSCHAK2 | ptl, so you know the status of btrfs? | 03:56 |
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| TSCHAK2 | ...guess not. | 03:57 |
| ptl | I was just trolling to get an explanation | 03:58 |
| ptl | no | 03:58 |
| TSCHAK2 | there's your first mistake. | 03:58 |
| ptl | :D | 03:59 |
| ptl | what's the second one? | 03:59 |
| TSCHAK2 | ... | 03:59 |
| * TSCHAK2 shakes head. | 03:59 | |
| TSCHAK2 | if you wish an explanation, Arjan has gone over this... | 03:59 |
| * ptl wonders if TSCHAK2 is a headbanger. Heavy metal fan? | 03:59 | |
| TSCHAK2 | but to paraphrase: | 03:59 |
| TSCHAK2 | btrfs is being regarded by most of the kernel community as the future of linux based filesystems... | 04:00 |
| ptl | I saw that message | 04:00 |
| ptl | but... I wonder if there will be "one" filesystem as winner | 04:00 |
| TSCHAK2 | the majority of the code that has formed btrfs has been stable since Sept. of last year. | 04:00 |
| ptl | the linux community is fond of its diversity. | 04:00 |
| ptl | anyway, the most important thing would be its suitability for small systems | 04:00 |
| TSCHAK2 | indeed. but many of btrfs's features are of importance to meego | 04:00 |
| ptl | btrfs doesn't seem suitable for it | 04:00 |
| ptl | isn't it? | 04:00 |
| ptl | I saw that message too :) | 04:01 |
| ptl | well | 04:01 |
| ptl | you get stressed easy. I'll read more about it, ok? | 04:01 |
| ptl | *easily | 04:01 |
| TSCHAK2 | yeah, i'm tired of people blindly following each other | 04:01 |
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| TSCHAK2 | and not getting facts. | 04:01 |
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| TSCHAK2 | moblin has been running on small devices for over a year now | 04:02 |
| TSCHAK2 | with regular snapshots being tried on the n900 and the aava mobile phone units | 04:02 |
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| ptl | TSCHAK2: ok, but .deb is better than rpm :D | 04:17 |
| * ptl runs | 04:17 | |
| TSCHAK2 | :P | 04:20 |
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| ohnoyoudidint | DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 | 04:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee | man, | 08:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | the maemo forums have become _VERY_ depressing | 08:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | sigh | 08:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | :( | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | used /thankedposts.php | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | use | 08:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | really... | 08:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | there are scores of people who are _PISSED_ over the n900 | 08:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | and PR1.2 | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | well, the n900 is actually fairly fine piece of hardware | 08:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | it is | 08:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | best damn hardware brick i have _EVER_ had | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | no joke | 08:32 |
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| Stskeeps | pr1.2 is another topic that is nokia's own fault for making people severely addicted to the thing | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | i honestly wish nokia would open up apps so we could.. you know... add basic features that should have been there in the first place..but oh well | 08:32 |
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| Stskeeps | yes, but that's not going to happen :/ | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | i know | 08:33 |
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| TSCHAKeee | and i don't know what to do... maybe we can make meego better | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | i hope. | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | but way too many...way too many people just angry over how nokia has handled the end user aspects of the n900 | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | on the other hand | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | the crappy apps at times motivated a lot of 3rd party development | 08:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | (for the record, i am more than ecstatic over my n900.. I love it...) | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | creating itches for people to scratch | 08:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | yes. | 08:34 |
| * TSCHAKeee can't wait for the next meego code drop... | 08:35 | |
| TSCHAKeee | are there obs notes on the meego wiki? | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | i think lbt is setting up some at the maemo.org wiki, may contain useful bits for meego too | 08:36 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | i fully expect there'll be docs how to set up your own company obs :P | 08:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | the last run of mic2 for me created a really tiny livecd image that didn't make it all the way to an xterm... | 08:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | will keep working on it... | 08:38 |
| tmzt | Stskeeps: have you been following the uds arm track? | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | tmzt: no | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | any interesting news? | 08:39 |
| TSCHAKeee | uds ? | 08:39 |
| tmzt | haven't gotten to listen to it | 08:39 |
| tmzt | they have a custom version of a chromium cross dev tool though | 08:39 |
| tmzt | http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/track/ubuntu_on_arm/ | 08:40 |
| tmzt | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMDeveloperEnvironment | 08:40 |
| TSCHAKeee | gotcha | 08:40 |
| tmzt | and this, missed it | 08:41 |
| tmzt | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMGraphicsStackOnX | 08:41 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm a bit cynic but full GL on a ARM device? | 08:42 |
| Stskeeps | is there even any devices supporting it? | 08:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah uh..wth? | 08:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | even tegra is just openGL ES | 08:43 |
| tmzt | with an open driver? | 08:43 |
| tmzt | es 2.0 is true gl isn't it? | 08:43 |
| tmzt | just doesn't have the immediate commands (like glBegin) | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | no, it's a subset of opengl 2.0 | 08:43 |
| tmzt | yeah, as far as api | 08:43 |
| tmzt | but is it less capable? | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | and even with a open driver that's a bit of a pipe dream what they describe | 08:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | mmhmm | 08:44 |
| tmzt | yeah ;) | 08:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | i don't see it happening | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | tmzt: saw that we've opened up n900 hw adaptation team development? | 08:44 |
| tmzt | but codeaurora.org (quic) has a pretty cool start on an open driver for snapdragon | 08:44 |
| tmzt | no, where is the announcment? | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 08:45 |
| * TSCHAKeee still angry there isn't a mali200 driver that can work in X. | 08:45 | |
| tmzt | did you see the partial recompilation stuff from ubuntu? too bad they didn't have this for mer | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | we can do partial recompilation in obs with ease | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | but no, url? | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002131.html | 08:45 |
| tmzt | hmm, it's under repository forking | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | (sorry about linewrapping) | 08:45 |
| tmzt | hold on | 08:45 |
| tmzt | I've got a chrome window with all of this stuff open | 08:46 |
| tmzt | just have to go through it | 08:46 |
| tmzt | so we get specs? :) | 08:46 |
| tmzt | maybe for everything but sgx would be nice | 08:47 |
| tmzt | MeeGo Core + Handset UX releases (100% open | 08:48 |
| tmzt | source) | 08:48 |
| tmzt | where is this source and are there any branding restrictions? | 08:48 |
| TSCHAKeee | handset ux hasn't dropped yet | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | meego core and handset ux (ux will be out later) will be fully open source | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | but when we say open development, we mean working out in the open. | 08:48 |
| tmzt | core is just linux stuff? | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | like, irc channels, mailing list and all that stuff. | 08:49 |
| TSCHAKeee | core is just the very base system | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | and middleware | 08:49 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah. | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | tmzt: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 08:49 |
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| tmzt | https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-archive-branching | 08:50 |
| tmzt | here's this | 08:50 |
| tmzt | seems they want to use bzr to manage apt repos | 08:50 |
| Stskeeps | we kinda do that (sanely) with obs :P | 08:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | heheh | 08:52 |
| tmzt | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-tool-chain-selection | 08:53 |
| tmzt | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-ui-and-test-heads | 08:53 |
| tmzt | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMTestsuitesAndProfilers | 08:54 |
| Stskeeps | seems a bit like bandaid | 08:54 |
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| tmzt | seemed they were going to do this on hardware | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | well, hwcap is usually a good idea | 08:56 |
| Stskeeps | rpm has a nice thing where it can automatically pick up armv6l packages or armv7l even if you're on armv5 | 08:56 |
| tmzt | how is that good? | 08:56 |
| tmzt | what I don't get is mplayer can detect cpu features | 08:57 |
| tmzt | but somebody at canonical decided to make the whole repo armv6mmu when only a few packages needed it (optionally) | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | well, it takes your arm architecture and pulls in the right optimized one when grabbing a dependancy | 08:57 |
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| tmzt | oh, you mean if your on the armv5 arch? | 08:58 |
| tmzt | but your cpu supports higher? | 08:58 |
| tmzt | yeah, that would be a good thing for dpkg to have :) | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:58 |
| tmzt | what toolkit is handset ux? Qt 4? | 08:58 |
| tmzt | anything using qtml yet? | 08:58 |
| tmzt | (or whatever it's called) | 08:59 |
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| Stskeeps | qt4 at least | 08:59 |
| Stskeeps | you don't have glesv2 libraries with x11 support on some of the devices you try to support btw? | 08:59 |
| tmzt | I hope to get to snapdragon at some point | 09:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | hmm i thought everything was still using clutter at this point, but.. hm | 09:00 |
| tmzt | but out current devices are gles 1.1 and there's no driver for X | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | gles 1.1 might still work in some form but dunno. official baseline is glesv2 | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | which is understandable | 09:01 |
| tmzt | well 2d buffer swapping is possible if we can make X support it | 09:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | is there a glES driver that works in X...besides the omap stuff? | 09:01 |
| tmzt | but if your only going to support gl there's no point, seems the only non-Windows on these devices is going to be android and rhobuntu | 09:01 |
| tmzt | TSCHAKeee: there should be when chrome os devices are released | 09:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 09:02 |
| tmzt | or other msm/snapdragon smartbooks | 09:02 |
| tmzt | since ubuntu apparently has a kernel tree for snapdragon, just saw that today | 09:02 |
| * TSCHAKeee can't wait to see omap4 devices | 09:02 | |
| TSCHAKeee | or a tegra based device | 09:03 |
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| Termana | tmzt, ping | 09:05 |
| tmzt | I"m here | 09:05 |
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| Termana | tmzt, Does the code hosted at CodeAurora make any attempt to make the Snapdragon GLES shared libraries compatible with X? | 09:06 |
| tmzt | kgsl and kms/drm2 support are there | 09:07 |
| tmzt | but I don't know where a non-OEM would get the compatible .so | 09:07 |
| Termana | non-OEM here, looking to do a MeeGo port | 09:07 |
| tmzt | right | 09:07 |
| tmzt | I think there should be enough to do a basic driver (maybe with gallium?) that can do tfp and offscreen pixmaps | 09:08 |
| tmzt | I don't understand what gles is being used for in meego though | 09:08 |
| tmzt | beyond games/applications with specifically need it | 09:08 |
| Termana | I asked about the shipped libraries included with Android (messages to google kernel workers) - they are surface flinger specific | 09:08 |
| Termana | tmzt, Handset UX | 09:09 |
| tmzt | the android stuff is mostly android specific | 09:09 |
| tmzt | and isn't designed for kgsl/drm | 09:09 |
| tmzt | but there's a version for nexus that has partial support | 09:09 |
| tmzt | it's not designed for X though | 09:09 |
| tmzt | not sure what SF has to do with it exactly | 09:09 |
| tmzt | SF just manages the allocation through the kernel | 09:10 |
| tmzt | using pmem | 09:10 |
| Termana | tmzt, I assume the libraries would interact with surface flinger in some way | 09:10 |
| tmzt | the new kernel drivers replace that with drm | 09:10 |
| tmzt | I think they just use the same kernel apis as SF/pixelflinger | 09:10 |
| tmzt | what deivce are you working with? | 09:11 |
| Termana | Nexus One - I'm not working with it yet - I don't have one. Looking to maybe do a port | 09:11 |
| tmzt | I would start with CA and the 2d drivers then | 09:11 |
| tmzt | and add functionality we really need | 09:11 |
| tmzt | it would help to undestand how GL is used | 09:11 |
| Termana | tmzt, your looking to do the same thing? or...? | 09:12 |
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| tmzt | more X than meego specifically | 09:13 |
| tmzt | and I'm waiting on a suitable device with qwerty keyboard | 09:13 |
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| Termana | tmzt, X itself works fine. No specific acceleration etc. though - Have you seen the native Debian install for N1? | 09:15 |
| tmzt | no | 09:16 |
| Termana | tmzt, video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ939llCqVc | 09:16 |
| Termana | tmzt, instructions: http://www.irregular-expression.com/?p=30 | 09:16 |
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| Termana | Also theres an extra problem | 09:19 |
| Termana | If I buy a Nexus One - I will be run down by a bus :) | 09:19 |
| tmzt | thanks, that's what I've been looking for | 09:21 |
| tmzt | jairun? | 09:23 |
| Termana | tmzt, hmm? | 09:24 |
| tmzt | the debian thing | 09:24 |
| tmzt | it's not complete though, but the fastboot could be helpful | 09:25 |
| tmzt | you still need a computer to start it though | 09:25 |
| tmzt | if kexec works on scorpion it might be possible to get around that | 09:25 |
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| Termana | tmzt, or just modify boot.img with the appropriate kernel and parameters | 09:26 |
| tmzt | I wasn't able to get the kernel to boot into Debian until I turned | 09:26 |
| tmzt | off initramfs support | 09:26 |
| tmzt | (note. this was before I discovered the 'noinitrd' kernel kernel cmdline option | 09:26 |
| Termana | Ah righto | 09:28 |
| tmzt | I started working getting touchscreen to work | 09:30 |
| tmzt | I think the input cleanup in X might help, esp the matrix patches on the mailing list | 09:30 |
| tmzt | they don't really support acceleration yet or non-linear scaling | 09:31 |
| tmzt | https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-dpkg-wishlist | 09:32 |
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| tmzt | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ARMSoftbootLoader | 09:34 |
| tmzt | this is something like Nokia's initrd | 09:34 |
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| tmzt | Based on Clutter, netbook-launcher could not run on the ARM devices Ubuntu was targeting due to a lack of 3D acceleration. Enter netbook-launcher-efl, a 2D version of the x86 netbook interface written using EFL packages. | 09:44 |
| tmzt | interesting, didn't know about this one | 09:44 |
| tmzt | http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/05/ubuntu-lucid-lynx-on-arm/ | 09:44 |
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| th0br0 | g'day | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | morning th0br0 | 11:49 |
| th0br0 | how was yesterday's meeting? | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | there was none, it is switched to every other week now | 11:49 |
| * Stskeeps is learning the hard way that Requires: and such doesn't go in %description | 11:49 | |
| th0br0 | oh k. | 11:50 |
| th0br0 | then I'm glad not to have missed anything .D | 11:50 |
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| Stskeeps | morning slaine - good night out? | 11:58 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: ml... " | 13:06 |
| lbt | I'm not sure “Meego on n900” is intended to be a “supportable end user | 13:06 |
| lbt | configuration”. As far as I understood it, the target is developers. | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | graham's words | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | and right now we use microsd out of ease | 13:08 |
| lcuk | lbt, which mail is this one on | 13:11 |
| * CosmoHill pets Stskeeps and lcuk | 13:12 | |
| slaine | Stskeeps: Yes, I'd a good night out thanks | 13:12 |
| * slaine is a little sluggish today | 13:13 | |
| lbt | Yves' words... I'd just be happy to hear them refuted... I don't want Arjan and Greg of the opinion that a non-btrfs solution on the n900 is a 2nd hand member of MeeGo | 13:14 |
| lbt | and if they feel that the n900 effort is "just a hack" then there'll be a lot of unhappy bunnies around | 13:14 |
| lbt | Meego-dev lcuk | 13:15 |
| lcuk | yeah mail title i have lots of mail this morning | 13:15 |
| lcuk | or is it an old one | 13:15 |
| lbt | the one where Arjan's been ignoring the elephant in the corner | 13:15 |
| lbt | btrfs as default fs | 13:15 |
| gaveen | Was there a TSG meeting yesterday? Can't find the irc logs/summary | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | gaveen: no | 13:15 |
| lbt | no gaveen | 13:15 |
| gaveen | lbt, Stskeeps thanks | 13:16 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: i don't see arjan or greg making that impression. there was a bit of NAND discussion, where ubifs is the best - they will have exact same issues on x86 handsets | 13:16 |
| lbt | ah, I just saw graham's reply... that's what I think we need to be clear on | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | so it is more about btrfs on MMC, not so much about if n900 can handle it | 13:16 |
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| lbt | And note, if the handheld devices do not use btrfs, some of the features | 13:17 |
| lbt | being provided here (snapshot rollback, etc.) will just not work, which | 13:17 |
| lbt | might not be good. | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | let us just get to actually trying it out in practice first :) | 13:17 |
| lbt | btrfs works wonderfully on MeeGo (i.e. netbooks.) | 13:17 |
| lbt | MeeGo = netbooks | 13:17 |
| lbt | uh huh | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | i think you're reading too much into it | 13:18 |
| lbt | which is why I'm looking for confirmation :) | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | confirmation of ..? | 13:18 |
| lbt | MeeGo != netbooks | 13:18 |
| lbt | and meego on n900 isn't "just for hacking" | 13:18 |
| lbt | clearly it's not nokia supported | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | did you see the size of our team? :P | 13:19 |
| lbt | but it should be capable of showcasing anything MeeGo | 13:19 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | obviously | 13:19 |
| lbt | I'm not trying to make a big deal of it | 13:19 |
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| Stskeeps | it is a hardware adaptation project, supposed to be able to host the handset vertical | 13:20 |
| lbt | sec phone | 13:20 |
| pupnik | maemo on n8! | 13:22 |
| pupnik | (just felt like saying that) | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | nothing more, nothing less | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:22 |
| slaine | Does GregKH have full access to MeeGo ? | 13:22 |
| slaine | It's one thing being told by Intel and Nokia that they're not ready to release it, it's another thing to allow other companies access behind the scene to help development | 13:23 |
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| Stskeeps | slaine: personally i have no idea - they did a lot in moblin times didn't they? | 13:24 |
| Corsac | lbt: Yves-Alexis, not just Yves :) | 13:25 |
| lbt | :P | 13:25 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: again, it was never disclosed publicly, it appeared that way, when I asked about such things happening, it was denied | 13:25 |
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| lbt | on/off hold sorting out flights... BA strike | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | again? | 13:26 |
| lbt | 4 5 day strikes iirc | 13:26 |
| lbt | ie a month barring weekends | 13:27 |
| Corsac | not to mention eykjafull | 13:27 |
| thiago_home | eyjafjallajökull | 13:28 |
| lbt | anyhow... I just feel that there are some subtle hints (and I agree I may be reading too much into it) that people won't mind if the n900 isn't quite a 1st class meego citizen | 13:28 |
| thiago_home | "island-mountain-glacier" | 13:28 |
| lbt | so, the best way to deal with it is to ask for some polite discussion | 13:28 |
| lbt | that's all Stskeeps :) | 13:28 |
| Corsac | from what I understand, n900 will be a supported device for meego, but meego won't be a supported OS for n900 | 13:28 |
| Corsac | hmhm no | 13:29 |
| Corsac | just not a default installation, at least | 13:29 |
| lbt | Corsac: correct... not supported by nokia | 13:29 |
| slaine | Greg's email from this morning makes it clear that there is a behind the scenes relationship with novel and meego | 13:29 |
| lbt | slaine: of course... and why not | 13:29 |
| Corsac | the preferred OS is Fremantle, and maybe Harmattan at one point, though we don't know that | 13:29 |
| slaine | lbt, This golden circle/old boys club behavior REALLY makes my blood boil. | 13:29 |
| lbt | meh, not boil, but that's life.... | 13:30 |
| lbt | you meet people, you know them... | 13:30 |
| slaine | particularly for a purportedly open development. | 13:30 |
| Corsac | there's no open development | 13:30 |
| Corsac | there /will/ be, at one point | 13:30 |
| lbt | Corsac: there is... meego-arm | 13:31 |
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| th0br0 | oh, life! :) | 13:31 |
| th0br0 | hello lbt | 13:31 |
| lbt | right... back l8r I just wanted to raise an area of potential confusion about the goals of "meego on n900" (which I didn't feel I knew well enough to answer) | 13:32 |
| lbt | hi th0br0 | 13:32 |
| lbt | just off now... l8r | 13:32 |
| th0br0 | how are things coming along? | 13:32 |
| Corsac | even with that, I was told yesterday by Aard that doing stuff meego/touchbook related was pointless since stuff happened being curtains | 13:32 |
| th0br0 | ok :) bye. | 13:32 |
| Corsac | and we should just wait | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | Aard? | 13:32 |
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| Corsac | Bernd Wachter | 13:34 |
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| Corsac | I don't know who he is, and what kind of meego access he has (he told me he was beeing paid to work on meego, but spent free time on meego/touchbook stuff) | 13:34 |
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| Stskeeps | well, meego n900 work is done openly now, so that's a staart. | 13:35 |
| pupnik | why wait? isn't doing stuff more fun? | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: i tend to disagree with his view then | 13:36 |
| pupnik | -rw-r--r-- 1 maemo maemo 770 Dec 10 2007 Makefile <3 <3 <3 | 13:37 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: yeah, and having a bootable meego was nice :) | 13:37 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, where could I get current meego for n900? | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | smoku: you'd have to poke the release team for that (whoever they are) | 13:38 |
| * Stskeeps goes back to writing reply to the trainwreck thread | 13:38 | |
| smoku | so it isn't really open then | 13:39 |
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| Stskeeps | smoku: there's a number of issues to that. one is that the OBS build results aren't updated bi-weekly for arm as they should. | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | (or rather, a live repo being available) | 13:40 |
| Corsac | yeah, Aard told me that MIC was broken wrt. public repositories | 13:40 |
| Corsac | (I used the n900 image to boot the TB but the preferred way would be to create a dedicated image with a .ks) | 13:40 |
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| Stskeeps | we're doing our part to aid the situation, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1986 | 13:42 |
| Corsac | “it'd help open development a lot” | 13:43 |
| * Corsac giggles | 13:43 | |
| th0br0 | mh... Stskeeps... could it be that like 80% of the ppl active in here are either employed by nokia or otherwise related and have got access to internal content? | 13:44 |
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| Stskeeps | th0br0: not sure what you're asking | 13:45 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, i'm fine with nokia working on their software behind closed doors - it's their project. what annoys me is they "advocate" (for a "lack" of better word) it as an open process | 13:45 |
| th0br0 | well, just how many of the active ppl in here are really from the community, non-nokia/intel side ;) | 13:45 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, why would it not be desirable to pass around "live" content? isnt the stuff in there meant to be part of the open project | 13:45 |
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| smoku | you may have a ford automobile in every color, as long it is black... | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | smoku: in this case, it's not our teams will the way things are :/ | 13:47 |
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| smoku | Stskeeps, I'm not blaming anyone and big kudos to you. Just expressing an opinion... | 13:48 |
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| lcuk | if companies are wanting to test their components integrated into an image surely the expectation has to be that it will be an open test | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | smoku: :nod: and i agree | 13:49 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: yes, preaching to the choir | 13:49 |
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| lcuk | im just trying to walk through it, i know fremantle wise that expectation isnt there | 13:50 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: that post along those lines? | 14:02 |
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| * lcuk discards the lengthy -dev mail about n900 and wanders off again | 14:31 | |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: I think that helps, yes. :) | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | then again, who listens to me anymore.. | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:48 |
| w00t_ | good point | 14:51 |
| w00t_ | ;) | 14:51 |
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| lbt | who said that? | 15:00 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, lbt the extra mile to fully certifying n900 will be invaluable otherwise how are other companies meant to know how much work it will take them.. | 15:30 |
| lcuk | and better to do it with a device we know and understand than trying to help them debug X hardware which will not be infont of so many people | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | i hope you don't expect us to go through the varouis certifications ;) | 15:31 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, which part needs certifying? | 15:35 |
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| AstralStorm | lcuk: hello | 15:51 |
| AstralStorm | is Meego workable now on n810? | 15:51 |
| lcuk | hiya AstralStorm | 15:51 |
| lcuk | dunno ask Stskeeps | 15:51 |
| AstralStorm | Stskeeps: prod, is Meego workable on n810? | 15:52 |
| AstralStorm | becaue old Diablo is making me mad | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | not ready yet | 15:52 |
| AstralStorm | watchdog-induced crashes | 15:52 |
| AstralStorm | what about Mer? | 15:52 |
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| AstralStorm | finally fixed the general slowness and added missing features? | 15:52 |
| Termana | AstralStorm, I have some exciting news | 15:52 |
| AstralStorm | mmm, love to hear. what are they? | 15:53 |
| Termana | Stskeeps has overclocked the OMAP2 processor to 1 Ghz - and it GIGA HERTZ | 15:53 |
| AstralStorm | I bet a kernel update is necessary for any of those to work | 15:53 |
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| AstralStorm | and it eats more battery? ;p | 15:53 |
| Vali | hi Stskeeps | 15:54 |
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| AstralStorm | Stskeeps: is Mer now ready(ier)? | 15:55 |
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| Stskeeps | no | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | mer's dead | 15:55 |
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| AstralStorm | damn | 15:55 |
| AstralStorm | so I'm left with no usable distro on n810 | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | reinstall diablo? | 15:56 |
| AstralStorm | and that will help how? | 15:56 |
| AstralStorm | except axing all my setting that is | 15:56 |
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| AstralStorm | I'll have to homebrew something | 15:56 |
| AstralStorm | or maybe run debian? | 15:56 |
| Termana | AstralStorm, It might fix your watchdog problem | 15:56 |
| AstralStorm | yeah it will workaround it | 15:57 |
| AstralStorm | because it times out due to high load times | 15:57 |
| AstralStorm | due to fragmentation on / | 15:57 |
| Termana | or, you can turn the watchdogs off - at your own risk | 15:57 |
| AstralStorm | it'd be best if I could make the watchdog not crash due to IO | 15:57 |
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| AstralStorm | I bet it's starved due to kernel being antique 2.6.16 | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | what, .16? | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | it's .21 on diablo | 15:58 |
| AstralStorm | oh yes, 2.6.21 | 15:58 |
| AstralStorm | still antique | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | and we have 2.6.33 runnin | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | g | 15:58 |
| AstralStorm | in Mer? | 15:58 |
| Vali | Stskeeps: i am still in confuse about building system about MeeGo ..is there is any possible way to arrange the entire build environment in PC (like android..) | 15:58 |
| AstralStorm | gimme | 15:58 |
| Termana | AstralStorm, In Diablo | 15:58 |
| AstralStorm | gimme! | 15:59 |
| AstralStorm | that might well fix most of the problems | 15:59 |
| AstralStorm | GPS, wifi, bluetooth? | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | Vali: no, you don't rebuild entire meego normally | 15:59 |
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| AstralStorm | dammit, can't even boot Maemo now | 16:00 |
| Termana | AstralStorm, I wouldn't recommend it entirely though. | 16:00 |
| AstralStorm | why? | 16:00 |
| AstralStorm | crashes? | 16:00 |
| AstralStorm | missing features? | 16:00 |
| Termana | no, bad power management, at least with Diablo | 16:00 |
| AstralStorm | hmm. | 16:00 |
| AstralStorm | why would that be? dsp bridge? | 16:00 |
| AstralStorm | missing video power saving? | 16:01 |
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| Termana | How about "i don't know, and I haven't been arsed to find out"? | 16:01 |
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| AstralStorm | dammit, one time I absolutely need the device to work it enters a watchdog reboot loop | 16:02 |
| AstralStorm | gah | 16:02 |
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| Vali | if i want remove some of packages from MeeGo for any simple use case how can i get that type img with out rebuilding it..? | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | Vali: removing it from package list of things to put in image :) | 16:04 |
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| Vali | you mean at the time image creation..? | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 16:06 |
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| slaine | Vali: thats what the kickstart files are for with the image-creator programs | 16:09 |
| Vali | ok that,s good and i have another doubt ..if i want add extra packages related to hardware specific | 16:09 |
| slaine | Same thing | 16:09 |
| slaine | setup a repo, point your kickstart to that repo too, add the packages you want to the kickstart file | 16:09 |
| slaine | then make your image | 16:10 |
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| Vali | Now I Understand..MeeGo img is group all the Binary rpm s present in that repo path is this right..? | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | a meego img is created from a list of packages from a repo, doesn't have to be all of them | 16:13 |
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| Vali | suppose if i was able to build the all those rpm in present in repo In my PC i can use my rpm to build the image(acctually my plan is to use the LTIB or like that type of tools to build the Entire packages) | 16:23 |
| Vali | any suggestions..? | 16:23 |
| slaine | Vali: I suggest you learn about kickstart files and the image-creator | 16:24 |
| slaine | you don't seem to be following it properly | 16:25 |
| slaine | rebuilding rpms != rebuilding a meego image | 16:25 |
| slaine | A meego image is a instance of a filesystem with all the rpms installed, that instance can either be in a raw disk image or a compressed squashfs that gets loaded from a usb flash drive | 16:26 |
| slaine | the tools, image-creator, kickstart files etc. allow you to create that instance | 16:26 |
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| Vali | hi slaine suppose if want to generate the image for like another core of ARMv3 instead of v7 ( by default Meggo is providing for ARMV7 and x86) i have to rebuild it with my own tool chain right. | 16:31 |
| * CosmoHill grumbles at his stupid uni work | 16:32 | |
| Vali | at that time how i can do it.. | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | armv3 might be a bit too low for meego :) | 16:32 |
| slaine | Yes, for an instance like that, i.e. where the provided rpms don't support your arch, then you have to rebuild all the rpms for that arch and then use the kickstarts etc. to make an image from those rpms | 16:32 |
| smoku | Stskeeps, how much power you need to run xterm? :> | 16:33 |
| slaine | Vali: meego's not at the place right now to support us building for different archs | 16:34 |
| Vali | Stskeeps : is there is any minimum hardware requirements for MeeGo..? | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | i think armv5 is the sanest | 16:34 |
| slaine | And atom for x86 | 16:34 |
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| Vali | slanie : my intention is create build system for MeeGo to build it to the Different architectures | 16:35 |
| slaine | That's what the OBS is supposed to do for us | 16:36 |
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| Vali | Stskeeps: what is the minimum RAM requirement for MeeGo to run smoothly | 16:37 |
| slaine | N900 hardware is the current arm target platform, so whatever that has | 16:38 |
| slaine | that all depends on what you're wanting to do though | 16:38 |
| slaine | are you going to use a full meego handheld/netbook stack | 16:38 |
| Vali | for simple net book | 16:38 |
| Vali | ? | 16:38 |
| slaine | or are you going to use meego core to host you're own application stack | 16:39 |
| Vali | yes. | 16:39 |
| Vali | not only MeeGo core entire NetBook OS | 16:39 |
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| slaine | Well, the min x86 netbook specs from memory where, Intel Atom N270, Intel 945 graphics and 1Gb RAM | 16:39 |
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| * CosmoHill headbangs the desk | 16:42 | |
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| Vali | Thanks Stskeeps and slaine For great information . | 16:44 |
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| Vali | can u please provide any link to info related to OBS and how can i use it? | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | build.opensuse.org | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | make an account, play around | 16:44 |
| slaine | The meego community one is "coming soon" | 16:45 |
| * slaine eyes lbt | 16:45 | |
| * lbt eyes slaine | 16:45 | |
| Vali | thanks Stskeeps | 16:45 |
| Vali | :bye | 16:45 |
| lbt | Vali: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Buildhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build | 16:45 |
| lbt | Vali: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build even | 16:46 |
| * lbt has been too django'ed to obs | 16:46 | |
| CosmoHill | lbt: thanks for recommending firebug | 16:46 |
| lbt | :) it's pretty amazing isn't it | 16:47 |
| th0br0 | wb lbt | 16:47 |
| slaine | lbt, you know when you've been django'd | 16:47 |
| lbt | heh, you do | 16:47 |
| Vali | thanks for info i will go through this once and i will come again if i got any doubts related to this :bye | 16:47 |
| * lbt built a model in mysql workbench (which is pretty cool nowadays) | 16:47 | |
| th0br0 | btw, lbt, Babylon 5 is just plain awesum :) | 16:49 |
| lbt | *nod* | 16:49 |
| th0br0 | I'm just at the middle of the third season. Luckily enough, a friend of mine had the disks ;D | 16:49 |
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| lbt | they bear repeat watching too | 16:50 |
| th0br0 | indeed they do. | 16:51 |
| GAN900 | When did we s/Summit/Conference/? | 16:51 |
| GAN900 | It sounds so corporate and dry. | 16:51 |
| slaine | th0br0: yay, another convert | 16:51 |
| th0br0 | :D | 16:51 |
| th0br0 | GAN900: iirc 13 till 15 th november... | 16:51 |
| * lbt looks around for any signs of corporate influence ... nah, couldn't be... | 16:51 | |
| th0br0 | horrible date imho ^^ | 16:51 |
| th0br0 | uh, no, 15-17 iirc | 16:52 |
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| th0br0 | at least based upon that one forum post by qgil | 16:52 |
| slaine | everything seems to be happening in the forum now | 16:52 |
| * slaine hates forums | 16:52 | |
| * lbt too | 16:53 | |
| lbt | but, if we keep quiet nothing will change | 16:53 |
| CosmoHill | grr | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | i like forums better after i figured out i could subscribe to thngs | 16:53 |
| CosmoHill | this assignment work is bullshit | 16:53 |
| th0br0 | I prefer IRC to both, mailing lists and forums. IMHO forums are easier to use and more structured than mailing lists though | 16:53 |
| lbt | I'm pissed that one reason I supported Reggie and the use of closed sw was to use the tmo mail integration | 16:53 |
| th0br0 | tmo? tmobile? | 16:54 |
| lbt | talk.maemo.org | 16:54 |
| CosmoHill | my lecturer wants me to find five CSS and table websites and compare them | 16:54 |
| th0br0 | k | 16:54 |
| th0br0 | ;) | 16:54 |
| * lbt hates forums with an irrational passion.... | 16:54 | |
| lbt | just so clunky | 16:54 |
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| lbt | for people who don't grok 'subfolders' | 16:55 |
| CosmoHill | sheepbat: you like a welsh fruit bat? | 16:55 |
| lbt | or tags or any other number of ways of managing mail | 16:56 |
| CosmoHill | only you go for sheep instead of fruit | 16:56 |
| sheepbat | ..no | 16:56 |
| th0br0 | thunderbird is horrible once you've got 5 mail accounts + 60 folders (total) though | 16:56 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: shh, canadian | 16:56 |
| lbt | th0br0: ! | 16:56 |
| th0br0 | ? | 16:57 |
| * lbt looks at his thunderbird and stops counting after...200+ | 16:57 | |
| CosmoHill | th0br0: how many folders marked "do not open"? | 16:57 |
| th0br0 | none actually. | 16:57 |
| th0br0 | i guess i could do that. | 16:57 |
| * CosmoHill looks at his junk folder | 16:57 | |
| lbt | some with 00,000s messages in them | 16:57 |
| lbt | ie lkml | 16:57 |
| th0br0 | yeah :) | 16:57 |
| CosmoHill | it says I have 8500+ junk mail | 16:57 |
| * lbt loves cyrus imap | 16:57 | |
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| th0br0 | most of my junk mail gets dropped before it reaches me. | 16:57 |
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| CosmoHill | my mail server got dropped recently :/ | 16:57 |
| th0br0 | cyrus is cool | 16:57 |
| th0br0 | it just doesn't support SIEVE which sucks | 16:58 |
| CosmoHill | it's just a bug in my mail client | 16:58 |
| lbt | although it's a tad big in memory | 16:58 |
| th0br0 | oh no nvm | 16:58 |
| th0br0 | i'm using courier, i suck. | 16:58 |
| CosmoHill | it deletes all the junk mail when I exit the program | 16:58 |
| lbt | th0br0: does too | 16:58 |
| th0br0 | courier doesn' tho | 16:58 |
| CosmoHill | but doesn't reset the counter until i click on it | 16:58 |
| lbt | I run seive on cyrus | 16:58 |
| th0br0 | Yep, i know... :) | 16:58 |
| th0br0 | what do you use as mta? | 16:58 |
| lbt | oh, gotcha | 16:58 |
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| lbt | fetchmail -> spampd -(lmtp)->cyrus | 16:59 |
| th0br0 | haha, ok. | 16:59 |
| th0br0 | so you use cyrus locally | 16:59 |
| lbt | how else? | 16:59 |
| lbt | :) | 16:59 |
| GAN900 | lbt, well, make sure the mail integration gets pushed for the next sprint. | 16:59 |
| th0br0 | ;) | 16:59 |
| lbt | GAN900: /me is a lone voice | 16:59 |
| lbt | BUT LOUD | 16:59 |
| lbt | sometimes :) | 17:00 |
| lbt | hey, you could all help | 17:00 |
| th0br0 | given that i've got mutliple computers i tend to prefer having my emails decentralized. still, once i've found the money to upgrade my dedi box to an i7, i'll properly set up vms and have the data encrypted ... *once* | 17:00 |
| lbt | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52259 | 17:00 |
| lbt | go here (and thank me!!) and then click through to the email integration trial | 17:01 |
| lbt | th0br0: I have many PCs too - so I wanted to have email central on IMAP | 17:01 |
| lbt | then I can read email from anywhere | 17:02 |
| th0br0 | true | 17:02 |
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| lbt | I even have a webmail server too (squirrelmail iirc) | 17:03 |
| GAN900 | lbt, is there a wiki page yet? | 17:04 |
| lbt | well gan, if you followed my link and thanked me.... ;) | 17:05 |
| pupnik | nice lbt | 17:05 |
| lbt | well, use email users have our uses even if no-one talks to us | 17:06 |
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| lbt | GAN900: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service and huge detail here : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Installation and here: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup | 17:07 |
| lbt | GAN900: also QA process migration thoughts : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Application_QA_Process | 17:08 |
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| slaine | I've imap too, it's great | 17:11 |
| slaine | same email on all my devices | 17:11 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.lingscars.com/ <<< horrible horrible website | 17:13 |
| CosmoHill | made my laptop overheat | 17:13 |
| th0br0 | lol | 17:14 |
| th0br0 | uh, how long will maemo still exist besides meego? | 17:14 |
| slaine | One of the lads recommended this to me last night in the pub. It looks like all kids of awesome, http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/ | 17:15 |
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| th0br0 | quite a lot to pay tho | 17:16 |
| GAN900 | lbt, er, for email integration. | 17:17 |
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| lbt | GAN900: mmm, those linkies won't help much then ;) | 17:19 |
| lbt | nah, not really... but I'll help you get it setup if you ever want | 17:19 |
| lbt | I've been using it since ~2002 so... | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | slaine, maemo has a fully supported live mobile "UX" on devices today with people using it and a healthy community ecosystem - it will be around for a long time yet | 17:21 |
| lcuk | sorry, not slaine th0br0 | 17:23 |
| th0br0 | sure i get the point | 17:23 |
| th0br0 | it just gets ... confusing with the various communities, mailing lists, forums etc | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | indeed it does | 17:25 |
| slaine | moblin was never really that active, community wise. It's been totally dead since meego was announced | 17:25 |
| slaine | there was a flurry of IVI / IEGD related discussions, but nothing much else | 17:26 |
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| pupnik | yeah there was a maemo community | 17:35 |
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| th0br0 | there still is | 17:38 |
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| CosmoHill | who loves table based websites? http://www.linuxtoday.com/ | 17:42 |
| thiago_home | 1995 version of me does | 17:43 |
| CosmoHill | I count 6 and that's without scrolling down | 17:43 |
| Zeikko | They're pain to administer and modify. :S | 17:44 |
| CosmoHill | tables shouldn't be used for anything but tables | 17:46 |
| CosmoHill | I don't know why I need to find 5 examples to prove this | 17:46 |
| smoku | slaine, c-one is just pure evil!! there goes my savings... | 17:47 |
| slaine | smoku: pure evil in a ZOMG I must have one | 17:48 |
| pupnik | c-one is what smoku | 17:48 |
| GAN900 | lbt, get a wiki page together and that'll help you push the proposal. | 17:49 |
| slaine | pupnik: I posted a link earlier | 17:49 |
| slaine | http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/ | 17:49 |
| GAN900 | th0br0, for as long as people still use it? | 17:49 |
| th0br0 | true | 17:49 |
| * CosmoHill looks at the site | 17:50 | |
| CosmoHill | where's the body tag... | 17:50 |
| pupnik | http://www.wolfire.com/humble Humble Indie Bundle received over 1 million USD in donations, is opening-up sources to a bunch of cool games. Porters, fire up your SDKs! | 17:52 |
| * CosmoHill needs one more website to finish this bullshit pt1 | 17:52 | |
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| alons | hola | 18:03 |
| th0br0 | bueas | 18:04 |
| th0br0 | +n | 18:04 |
| th0br0 | my typing fails this afternoon | 18:04 |
| * CosmoHill has a new found hatred of web design | 18:05 | |
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| GAN900 | pupnik, Wolf Fire is such a great group. | 18:14 |
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| pupnik | and they did it! They got a million+! | 18:20 |
| th0br0 | who i? | 18:21 |
| th0br0 | oh nvm i recall about the action | 18:22 |
| alons | No hay ningun hispanohablante | 18:22 |
| alons | ?? | 18:22 |
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| th0br0 | parlo espanol ... un poco... | 18:28 |
| Nadley | alons: me hablo un poquito espanol porque ? | 18:29 |
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| zaheerm | alons: creo que este canal es solo ingles | 18:29 |
| th0br0 | ;) | 18:29 |
| smhar | what is license of the meego source code? | 18:30 |
| zaheerm | smhar, many licenses, because there are many components | 18:30 |
| smhar | zaheerm, any website to list? | 18:31 |
| zaheerm | smhar, the kernel is GPL for example, gstreamer is LGPL and all the bits meego uses all have their own choice of licences | 18:31 |
| zaheerm | smhar, meego is more a distribution of free software than a single project with one monolithic codebase | 18:31 |
| th0br0 | GAN900: it's awesome that they're planning to release the source tho | 18:32 |
| smhar | zaheerm, what about the bits developed by nokia/intel: the meego team? like the calender, the Desktop etc? | 18:32 |
| zaheerm | smhar, none of the UX parts are released yet | 18:33 |
| smhar | zaheerm, what is UX? | 18:33 |
| zaheerm | uxer experience | 18:33 |
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| zaheerm | meego 1.0 with netbook ux will be released first in may sometime | 18:34 |
| zaheerm | the others including handset ux following later | 18:34 |
| smhar | zaheerm, that is the same for N900? | 18:34 |
| zaheerm | smhar, what is the same for n900? | 18:34 |
| smhar | the UX, the once released in May? | 18:35 |
| zaheerm | the one released in may will be for netbooks, the handset one will come out shortly after (which may also be in may but not necessarily) | 18:35 |
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| smhar | zaheerm, so they decided the release date, almost, but still did not decide on the licensing? | 18:36 |
| zaheerm | smhar, i have no clue what license the UX parts will have but they will have a free software license i guess | 18:37 |
| zaheerm | smhar, nokia and intel may be able to answer, you could ask on the meego-dev mailing list | 18:37 |
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| alons | disculpen | 18:40 |
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| alons | hola th0br0 y nadley | 18:40 |
| alons | lo que pasa es que me interesa participar en la comunidad | 18:41 |
| alons | y estar informado | 18:41 |
| Nadley | y no hables ingles ? | 18:41 |
| alons | no | 18:41 |
| alons | mal por mi | 18:41 |
| alons | voy a ver si retomo esos estudios | 18:42 |
| th0br0 | no creo que es posible en el momiento sin saber hablar ingles | 18:42 |
| Nadley | porque por el momento to la informacion es en ingles | 18:42 |
| Nadley | *toda | 18:42 |
| alons | si eso veo | 18:42 |
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| alons | muchas gracias por las respuestas | 18:44 |
| Nadley | de nada | 18:44 |
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| TSCHAKeee | holy mother | 18:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | 5,122 posts | 18:48 |
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| pupnik | N900: apt-cache pkgnames | sort -u | wc -l 7715 packages My debian box: 38484 Nice job #maemo community and Nokia | 19:00 |
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| CosmoHill | damnit | 19:57 |
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| pupnik | meego on N8! For fun and ... fun! | 20:16 |
| leinir | for fun and making the N8 useful? ;) | 20:16 |
| pupnik | i wouldn't knock Symbian 3 just yet | 20:17 |
| leinir | it's still Symbian, though - MeeGo is, well... a proper Linux :) | 20:17 |
| twoboxen | will meego be able to resolve local hostnames? maemo still can't | 20:19 |
| thiago_home | local to the device? | 20:20 |
| pupnik | umm, edit /etc/hosts | 20:20 |
| thiago_home | or do you mean .local hostnames? | 20:20 |
| twoboxen | say i connect to my home wifi | 20:21 |
| twoboxen | i have a host named : myhost or something | 20:21 |
| twoboxen | http://myhost is resolved on EVERY device without keeping /etc/hosts up to date b/c it uses the gateway as a nameserver | 20:21 |
| twoboxen | even my freaking iPhone could do that, but Maemo doesn't | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | are you sure it's DNS? | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | not mDNS? | 20:22 |
| twoboxen | i don't know the difference | 20:22 |
| twoboxen | what is mDNS | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | multicast DNS | 20:23 |
| twoboxen | i don't use multicast (knowingly) at home | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | you do, if you have any apple device | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | open a regular linux shell and type: host myhost | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | does it resolve? | 20:23 |
| twoboxen | no | 20:24 |
| twoboxen | (i'm not at home) | 20:24 |
| twoboxen | but ping myhost fails too | 20:24 |
| twoboxen | the name just isn't resolved | 20:24 |
| thiago_home | then we've just shown that it's not just the maemo device | 20:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | ah the joys of tech support | 20:25 |
| twoboxen | I added an entry to /etc/hosts, but i have a lot of servers and other pcs at home that i would like to not have to maintain addresses of | 20:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 20:25 |
| twoboxen | huh? | 20:25 |
| glinpus | so get the local nameserver in resolv.conf | 20:25 |
| twoboxen | i can ping from EVERY other device | 20:25 |
| twoboxen | resolv.conf doesn't contain it | 20:25 |
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| thiago_home | or configure avahi properly | 20:25 |
| thiago_home | if you don't want to maintain /etc/hosts, you want DNS | 20:26 |
| thiago_home | or mDNS | 20:26 |
| thiago_home | either way, it's out of our hands | 20:26 |
| thiago_home | please read up on those protocols and find help in regular Linux channels | 20:26 |
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| thiago_home | hint: Avahi for mDNS | 20:26 |
| twoboxen | so Maemo is the one device on my entire network that doesn't work and it's not Maemo's fault | 20:26 |
| twoboxen | ok.... | 20:26 |
| thiago_home | didn't you just show that it's *not* the only device? | 20:26 |
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| twoboxen | no, every device can ping / ssh / connect / whatever to every other device--except for maemo trying to ping any device | 20:27 |
| twoboxen | every device can ping it | 20:27 |
| thiago_home | including other, regular Linux machines? | 20:27 |
| twoboxen | yes | 20:27 |
| twoboxen | absolutely | 20:27 |
| thiago_home | then please open a shell in one of those and run the command I asked | 20:27 |
| thiago_home | like I asked you to | 20:28 |
| twoboxen | again, i'm not at home | 20:28 |
| twoboxen | but i can tunnel in | 20:28 |
| thiago_home | then come back when you are | 20:28 |
| twoboxen | what would you like me to run there | 20:28 |
| thiago_home | 19:23 < thiago_home> open a regular linux shell and type: host myhost | 20:28 |
| * lbt opens the popcorn.... | 20:28 | |
| twoboxen | host myhost doesn't work | 20:29 |
| twoboxen | ping myhost does | 20:29 |
| twoboxen | (from a linux nas, not the n900) | 20:29 |
| lbt | "doesn't work" .... mmm | 20:30 |
| twoboxen | "host command not found" | 20:30 |
| suihkulokki | ... | 20:30 |
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| twoboxen | this is on nslu2 linux box | 20:30 |
| twoboxen | so not all commands are available | 20:31 |
| thiago_home | you need to install the command first | 20:31 |
| thiago_home | it's part of package bind-utils | 20:31 |
| thiago_home | at least in the distro I use | 20:31 |
| * lbt has image of thiago_home lying on the floor sobbing and slowly reaching up to the keyboard with one hand.... | 20:31 | |
| twoboxen | so fun getting lambasted for bringing up an issue that i've not experienced before | 20:32 |
| twoboxen | community reputation confirmed | 20:33 |
| twoboxen | myhost has address 10.2.2.1 | 20:33 |
| thiago_home | so it resolved, with "host" ? | 20:33 |
| twoboxen | on the linux nas | 20:34 |
| twoboxen | yes | 20:34 |
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| thiago_home | so the name is on DNS | 20:34 |
| twoboxen | right | 20:34 |
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| thiago_home | that means Maemo should find it | 20:34 |
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| twoboxen | right, but it doesn't... just making sure you know that the successful command was not from Maemo | 20:35 |
| thiago_home | is that the exact thing it said? | 20:35 |
| twoboxen | from the linux box, yes (not the n900) | 20:35 |
| thiago_home | "myhost has addres..." not "myhost.mydomain has addresss..." ? | 20:35 |
| twoboxen | yes, exact was "myhost has address 10.2.2.1" | 20:36 |
| thiago_home | hmm | 20:36 |
| thiago_home | I don't know why Maemo wouldn't find it | 20:36 |
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| thiago_home | it's the same setup | 20:36 |
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| twoboxen | exactly | 20:36 |
| thiago_home | so it has to be dnsmasq failing somehow | 20:36 |
| twoboxen | that's what i can't figure out | 20:36 |
| thiago_home | luckily for you, MeeGo doesn't use dnsmasq | 20:36 |
| twoboxen | good | 20:36 |
| twoboxen | that was my original question | 20:36 |
| twoboxen | not direct, but the essence | 20:36 |
| twoboxen | different internals will be welcomed here | 20:37 |
| thiago_home | yeah, but I was afraid you meant mDNS | 20:37 |
| thiago_home | that's a whole different beast | 20:37 |
| twoboxen | i wouldn't know... no experience | 20:37 |
| twoboxen | thanks for the help | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: cool that you put metrics out :) reading through them now | 20:38 |
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| DawnFoster | Things are trending in the right direction (numbers-wise), which is good :) | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | ow @ kernel process comment being one of the longest :P | 20:39 |
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| DawnFoster | yeah, typical growing pains | 20:40 |
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| Stskeeps | impressive with 3310 people on the lists | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | well, on the -dev list | 20:41 |
| DawnFoster | and a lot of people are actually participating, too and not just reading the list | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | good stuff :) | 20:42 |
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| DawnFoster | thanks! | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | y | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | yup | 20:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | and i'm getting there | 20:43 |
| * TSCHAKeee will have DCERouter running on meego soon. | 20:43 | |
| Stskeeps | w00t_: could you be interested in doing some irc analysis with me? | 20:43 |
| DawnFoster | I'd love to eventually have someone build an online dashboard that automates a lot of the gathering and let's people see the numbers any time | 20:43 |
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| DawnFoster | I would *love* to have some irc analysis! | 20:43 |
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| Stskeeps | one thing i need to do in meetbot - it should register how many people was listening i | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | n | 20:44 |
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| DawnFoster | that would be great. Right now, I've been counting mid-way through the meeting and adding it to a spreadsheet :) | 20:45 |
| DawnFoster | which relies on me not forgetting to do it. | 20:45 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i have irc logs since the channel here opened, so i can probably process them | 20:45 |
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| DawnFoster | the hard part with irc is that there is so much data | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | how many people have freaked out that meego 1.0 only has an xterm: 4,296,402,639 | 20:46 |
| DawnFoster | lol | 20:46 |
| RST38h | you call THIS data? | 20:46 |
| DawnFoster | I *really* wish I had a number for that | 20:47 |
| DawnFoster | it *could* be data :) | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | google claims approximately 40.000 results ;) | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | for meego xterm | 20:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | daily growth percentage of the PR1.2 speculation thread: 4000% | 20:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 20:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok i'll be quiet now :) | 20:48 |
| TSCHAKeee | just the coffee kicking in | 20:48 |
| DawnFoster | it's funny to see which threads spark the most arguments :) | 20:48 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it's a trip | 20:49 |
| DawnFoster | the forum ones are hilarious. People really can about naming and conference locations :) | 20:49 |
| DawnFoster | can/care | 20:49 |
| thiago_home | guys, the date for PR1.2 has been set | 20:49 |
| TSCHAKeee | thiago_home: i know.. and i've told everybody I know | 20:50 |
| tripzero | TSCHAKeee, you called me? | 20:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | thiago_home: that doesn't stop the idiots from falling off the cliff by the truckload | 20:50 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i really never knew there were whole legions of smartphone users who are such spoiled brats, until the n900 came into being.... | 20:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | i mean...wow. | 20:51 |
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| Stskeeps | it was impressive how much gadget lust was doing to people when they were on preorder | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 20:52 |
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| TSCHAKeee | everybody thought it would brew their coffee out of the box | 20:52 |
| Terje_ | TSCHAKeee, I thought that's how open source works. | 20:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | Terje_: you mean, the whole "I bought the thing therefore I get a free bitching card?" :P | 20:52 |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee, think how much worse Symbian is. | 20:53 |
| tripzero | bitching cards are always free | 20:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | GAN900: that just gave me a migraine... oh wait, that was the caffeine | 20:53 |
| Terje_ | TSCHAKeee, yep, except that usually people don't seem to need any excuse for getting a bitching card. | 20:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 20:53 |
| GAN900 | I just wish they'd all call Nokia "Care" | 20:53 |
| GAN900 | Maybe their bitching would help a bit then. | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah i think so | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | or maybe nokia just open up the UI for their core apps | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | so we can fix them | 20:54 |
| GAN900 | Hehe | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | i'll spend all my time floating through bug tickets and fixing things if i could just get at the code | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | i love my n900 | 20:54 |
| GAN900 | Well, fun story, what I've heard about the reference stuff for MeeGo is that it'll basically be useless. | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | a lot | 20:54 |
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| GAN900 | Still differentiating I guess. | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | *facepalm* | 20:55 |
| GAN900 | So we've got our work cut out for that. | 20:55 |
| * CosmoHill stabs adobe | 20:55 | |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee, well, there are open source things | 20:55 |
| CosmoHill | can't even export to PDF correctly | 20:55 |
| GAN900 | Fancy fixing Modest? | 20:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | i will try to split my time evenly between meego and linuxmce (keeping in mind I do lead that project( | 20:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | actually, sure. | 20:55 |
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| GAN900 | I think a lot of people might throw themselves at your feet for that. | 20:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | modest needs lots of love | 20:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | just simple things, really | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | Indeed it does | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | Yup | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | Most of the issues are pretty minor | 20:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | what's everybody's big gripe over it? | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | There are just lots of them. | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | Proper quoting | 20:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | I just use it to read my top few emails | 20:56 |
| GAN900 | Having plaintext emails not be double-wrapped | 20:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | gotcha. | 20:56 |
| * ShadowJK would like message threading in modest | 20:56 | |
| GAN900 | Threading | 20:57 |
| GAN900 | Bastatd. | 20:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | like let's say press and hold to expand a thread? | 20:57 |
| GAN900 | Maybe | 20:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee | hmm | 20:57 |
| GAN900 | We've got a lot of UI guys around | 20:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | i'm a both brainer.. do both ui design and hard core dev work.. | 20:58 |
| ShadowJK | well I wouldn't really even need treeview.. bugt grouping messages from same thread together and messages inside thread sorted in thread order | 20:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah, that too | 20:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | with a visual indicator | 20:58 |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee, also, if we have a lot of patches from the community on a Nokia open source project we can use that as ammo. | 20:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | that, hey, there are other threads in this (a paper stack icon) | 20:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | indeed. | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | I would hate that | 20:59 |
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| ShadowJK | the issue is that messages are now in pretty random order :) | 20:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | mmhm | 20:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | well, i use nokia messaging | 20:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | how about everyone else here? | 21:00 |
| ShadowJK | oh other feature requests: ability to delete or move messages without opening them first | 21:00 |
| suihkulokki | < GAN900> Having plaintext emails not be double-wrapped | 21:00 |
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| suihkulokki | sure those are plaintext and not mime mails with both plain and html? | 21:01 |
| ShadowJK | I haven't been able to use modest enough to be able to tell whether it also makes it hard/difficult to follow proper nice etiquette | 21:02 |
| twoboxen | offline caching in modest? | 21:05 |
| twoboxen | unified inbox | 21:06 |
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| twoboxen | multiple exchange (yes, exchange sucks but until they support caldav I have to use it more than once --work/gmail)... probably not modest, but still :) | 21:07 |
| * CosmoHill lols at the "professional web design companty" that uses tables on their own website | 21:07 | |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: how are the metrics currently collected? like, brought to you? | 21:10 |
| GAN900 | suihkulokki, every single email from the lists does that. | 21:10 |
| GAN900 | suihkulokki, either way, it shouldn't be double-wrapping. | 21:10 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: I collect most of them myself from the source. | 21:11 |
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| DawnFoster | mailing list data - I run mysql queries on a local db of mailing list data from mlstats | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:11 |
| DawnFoster | forums / wiki have stats pages | 21:11 |
| DawnFoster | etc. | 21:12 |
| * Stskeeps ponders if he has logs of hits on the meeting logs | 21:12 | |
| DawnFoster | this is why I'd love to have a stats dashboard :) | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i have preserved website logs for /meetbot URL as well | 21:13 |
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| pupnik | sdl event loops are always sphaghetti, aren't they | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: do you have a wishlist of IRC analysis if we were to start somewhere? | 21:15 |
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| CosmoHill | just a random question | 21:16 |
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| CosmoHill | are kids under 13 allowed on IRC servers? | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | depends on legalisation | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | i've seen networks banning people under 18 :) | 21:16 |
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| twoboxen | my maturity level is borderline then | 21:16 |
| CosmoHill | well i knew he was a kid before he even asked me | 21:17 |
| CosmoHill | going to someone you think is a kid "what is your age and location" looks very bad tho :/ | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's a shame if for instance freenode banned 13-18 as teenagers with too much time on their hands is a valuable resource for open source projects :P | 21:17 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: 2 things I'd like to see. 1) some data on the numbers of people in the channel trending over time (ideally numbers logged in and data about who talks - like meetbot number of lines or something) and 2) very high level content analysis - like a tag cloud or meaningful words with number of mentions (excluding all the standard the/and/but/etc.) | 21:18 |
| twoboxen | how is IRC different than any other chatroom/forum | 21:18 |
| CosmoHill | well I've got a pup in my channel that seems to be well with linux | 21:18 |
| CosmoHill | i keep forgetting that the kids of today have tech differently | 21:18 |
| CosmoHill | like lets say everyone got a computer in 2000, I'd be 11, he'd be 3, you'd be 20 | 21:18 |
| CosmoHill | whilst we're different ages we all got the tech at the same time | 21:18 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: alright - number of people in channel will have a uncertainty factor due to only logging join/parts/nickname changes. who talks - easy, .. | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | i'll take a look around - any preferred resulting formats? CSV? | 21:20 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: data about who talks is more interesting anyway. | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | http://elanor.mine.nu/daeron/script.fi.html is fairly standard | 21:22 |
| DawnFoster | I have a good feel for number of people logged in (usu 375 − 390) lately | 21:22 |
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| DawnFoster | csv format is fine | 21:22 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: that looks very interesting | 21:23 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: something like that link would be perfect! | 21:23 |
| DawnFoster | only caveat is that I need to cut the data by month if possible | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's a matter of merging the logs together | 21:24 |
| DawnFoster | or have a way to get a snapshot every month | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | i keep my logs by day, so | 21:24 |
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| DawnFoster | stskeeps: thanks again for looking into the irc analysis for me! So much happens here, and I'd really like to have some data in the metrics about it | 21:28 |
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| GAN900 | ShadowJK, damn near impossible. | 21:32 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, useless "quoting" which consists of a line of text inserted before the original message. | 21:32 |
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| w00t_ | Stskeeps: analysis in what sense? | 22:10 |
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| GAN900 | w00t_, we're going to calculate everybody's useless factor. :P | 22:14 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: if that were true, I suspect most of the channel would have already been obliterated | 22:14 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 22:14 |
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| CosmoHill | how many lines someone has said | 22:16 |
| CosmoHill | and how many lines of which were actually useful in some way | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.html is for feb, there's something odd with 'last days' but hmm | 22:17 |
| CosmoHill | holy crap, I'm 2nd! | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | will try a march one now | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | CosmoHill: no shit | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:18 |
| w00t_ | CosmoHill: you don't shut up often :-) | 22:18 |
| DawnFoster | wow! That's sweet, thanks | 22:19 |
| Myrtti | *mwaaah* | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-march.html | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | looks like we need to make it ignore some words :) | 22:20 |
| sp3000 | Stskeeps: it's missing timezone info :) | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: what time zone is this in? | 22:21 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | i guess 'denmark' | 22:21 |
| th0br0 | haha, cool ;) | 22:21 |
| th0br0 | funny to see that I'm sixth. | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | also why is the day right to left? | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | no idea | 22:22 |
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| sp3000 | it ends at 0 so is that ...0 days ago? | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | well, from the time the log ended | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | hehe, "think people would nokia Stskeeps" | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | that's almost a sentence | 22:24 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-april.html as well, and that's about it for now | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | (just a first attempt so we get some impression) | 22:25 |
| CosmoHill | This seems like good evidence that I spent to much time on IRC :/ | 22:26 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, whats the overall stats like | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | like, total? | 22:28 |
| * Stskeeps runs it | 22:29 | |
| lcuk | yeah :D | 22:29 |
| lcuk | i always thought we should have these frequently updated for maemo etc | 22:29 |
| * CosmoHill hides | 22:29 | |
| * lcuk spoke to marius about it | 22:29 | |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-total.html | 22:31 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't like this analysis's top words | 22:32 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Why? It has got "meego" | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it catches nicknames too much | 22:33 |
| RST38h | oh | 22:33 |
| CosmoHill | apparently I'm one of Aprils key words :/. | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | even though it's obvious i, thiago and arjan are popular ;) | 22:33 |
| RST38h | It is probably useful to have the whole list of all the urls | 22:33 |
| lcuk | those most used words are important | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | the hourly statistics are interesting though | 22:34 |
| lcuk | :d they indicate what people keep hammering about | 22:34 |
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| Stskeeps | 3am danish time - i guess that's about when intel US work time ends? | 22:34 |
| RST38h | no | 22:34 |
| RST38h | 23:36 MSK time, 15:36 EST, Intel closes at 16:00-18:00 | 22:35 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, you didnt bring the bot in immediately did you? | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | this is from my personal logs | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | ie, from day zero | 22:38 |
| DawnFoster | Time conversions to portland: | 22:38 |
| lcuk | i count 133813 lines, yours counts 125967 | 22:38 |
| DawnFoster | 0:00 = 3:00pm | 22:38 |
| DawnFoster | 6:00 = 9:15pm | 22:38 |
| DawnFoster | 12:00 = 3:15am | 22:38 |
| DawnFoster | 18:00 = 9:00am | 22:38 |
| DawnFoster | assuming denmark to US pacific time | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i lost some logs due to network difficuluties | 22:39 |
| DawnFoster | so, Intel work day is about 17:00 − 02:00 | 22:39 |
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| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: where did the 15 come from? | 22:41 |
| DawnFoster | I'll need some context :) 15 what? | 22:41 |
| DawnFoster | oh, in the times | 22:41 |
| DawnFoster | oops, ignore those | 22:41 |
| DawnFoster | copy and paste error | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | i was getting worried the LHC did cause some time shift ;) | 22:42 |
| CosmoHill | in the morning we get 15 mins less sleep than we through :o | 22:42 |
| DawnFoster | either that or Portland randomly shifts 15 minutes in the middle of the night :) | 22:42 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, eep seems to be reasonably linear drop off tho, timeless lost out - he moved 2 places during your downtime | 22:43 |
| * Stskeeps glances at wordle | 22:45 | |
| koupsa | Stskeeps, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM about lhc | 22:45 |
| koupsa | I go out :) | 22:45 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: http://www.jibble.org/piespy/ might also be a interesting tool | 22:48 |
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| DawnFoster | that would be interesting to see | 22:52 |
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| Stskeeps | could be interesting on mailing lists as well, if simple referencing data is possible to extract | 22:52 |
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| CosmoHill | that looks like ZenWalk but for people | 22:53 |
| CosmoHill | instead of networked computers | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | the emerging patterns would hopefully be the teams of meego and their surrounding contributors | 22:53 |
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