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| Termana | good morning | 03:12 |
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| linuxcentos | Hi | 13:14 |
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| linuxcentos | Any SDK to play around for MeeGo? Or too early to ask? | 13:14 |
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| hhartz | linuxcentos: you should grab the Nokia Qt SDK; http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/ | 13:15 |
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| linuxcentos | hhartz: ok, thx :) | 13:16 |
| linuxcentos | hhartz: no "virtual MeeGo" device? | 13:16 |
| pupnik_ | meego is still being created | 13:17 |
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| linuxcentos | mm | 13:17 |
| hhartz | linuxcentos: yeah. lots of people are using the N900 as a dev device | 13:17 |
| linuxcentos | hhartz: i see | 13:18 |
| hhartz | linuxcentos: what are you planning on developing? | 13:18 |
| linuxcentos | hhartz: just one general question: MeeGo will be suitable for mobile smart phones like Android is? | 13:18 |
| linuxcentos | hhartz: yeah, even though i'm a newbie | 13:18 |
| linuxcentos | maybe stupid quest :( | 13:20 |
| hhartz | linuxcentos: well, Android isn't really linux afaik, they have a slightly different kernel | 13:20 |
| hhartz | linuxcentos: I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'suiteable for mobile smart phones like android" | 13:21 |
| hhartz | linuxcentos: but it will be suitable for mobile phones yes | 13:21 |
| linuxcentos | hhartz: you answered my quest :) | 13:22 |
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| hhartz | linuxcentos: good :) | 13:26 |
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| linuxcentos | i'm interested to play around with apps for MeeGo, but now i don't have N900 | 13:30 |
| CosmoHill | meego also supports x86 | 13:30 |
| linuxcentos | aha, cool | 13:30 |
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| linuxcentos | meebo will be in my car pc when ready | 13:31 |
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| CosmoHill | a car PC would be more than my car | 13:31 |
| CosmoHill | hey tekojo | 13:32 |
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| CosmoHill | i have that effect on people | 13:32 |
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| linuxcentos | CosmoHill: if MeeGo supports x86 then VIA board will be perfect for carputers | 13:42 |
| linuxcentos | :) | 13:42 |
| CosmoHill | you overestimate the value of my car :p | 13:42 |
| CosmoHill | i think meego requires SSSE3 still | 13:43 |
| thiago | SSSE3 is required | 13:43 |
| CosmoHill | thiago: no bank hoilday for you? | 13:43 |
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| linuxcentos | CosmoHill: hehe | 13:43 |
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| linuxcentos | Via Nano supports SSE3 :) | 13:46 |
| linuxcentos | SSSE3* | 13:46 |
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| linuxcentos | Really excited about MeeGo | 13:47 |
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| Tm_T | hi | 13:54 |
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| CosmoHill | damn mac | 14:47 |
| CosmoHill | you're meant to care when i make mistakes in my program | 14:47 |
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| jacquesdupontd | hi | 18:14 |
| jacquesdupontd | anybody there ? | 18:14 |
| suy_ | hi | 18:14 |
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| jacquesdupontd | hi i was wondering if anybody has any clue about moblin and nvidia proprietary drivers ? | 18:15 |
| jacquesdupontd | i've installed ubuntu-moblin-remix but i've seen the problem was the same no matter wich plateform moblin is based on, maemo or the original moblin | 18:16 |
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| jacquesdupontd | as there is no ubuntu-moblin-remix channel, i'm obliged to be asking the questino there | 18:16 |
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| CosmoHill | jacquesdupontd: i think you need the older nvidia drivers | 18:21 |
| CosmoHill | the current ones ate 9X somethinh | 18:21 |
| CosmoHill | you need the 8x ones i think | 18:21 |
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| CosmoHill | but I've never gotten it towkr | 18:21 |
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| th0br0 | heya CosmoHill | 18:40 |
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| CosmoHill | hey th0br0 | 18:40 |
| th0br0 | sup? | 18:40 |
| CosmoHill | programming still | 18:41 |
| th0br0 | :) | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | almost done I think | 18:41 |
| th0br0 | good | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | nice | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | I overloaded -- | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | so player-- will reduces it's score by 1 | 18:41 |
| CosmoHill | but will not go below zero | 18:41 |
| th0br0 | ^^ | 18:43 |
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| CosmoHill | i think my program is going well | 19:18 |
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| CosmoHill | works on windows, mac and linux :D | 19:20 |
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| thiago | CosmoHill: using Qt? Or plain ISO C++? | 19:41 |
| CosmoHill | just C++ | 19:41 |
| CosmoHill | it's command line | 19:41 |
| thiago | cout and cin then? | 19:42 |
| CosmoHill | yep | 19:42 |
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| leinir | CosmoHill: well... Qt can do command line as well, that's what QCoreApplication is for :) | 19:43 |
| leinir | (not saying you must, just pointing out the possibility :) ) | 19:43 |
| CosmoHill | i know the game can be improved a fair bit but it's due in friday | 19:43 |
| thiago | yeah, but not terminal work properly | 19:43 |
| thiago | unless you use the "qout" trick | 19:43 |
| CosmoHill | this is my university assignment | 19:44 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, add an easter egg which has great animated credits and ensure you thank your tutor in big letters - should be worth an extra grade point :D | 19:48 |
| thiago | and invoke it if you run the app with a parameter of "moo" | 19:48 |
| hcl2 | anyone experimented with doing fibo retrace on bbands? | 19:48 |
| hcl2 | sorry, wrong window | 19:49 |
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| macavity | hi folks :-) | 20:10 |
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| Stskeeps | wello | 20:11 |
| macavity | new to this... i just read that the nokia provided n900 images (as opposed to the OSS ones) includes some proprietary software... but the list does not show the PowerVR graphics blobs | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | that's coming in 1.0 | 20:12 |
| macavity | is this an ommision, or does meegoo not support 3d acceleration on N900 and GMA500 devices | 20:12 |
| macavity | ah, roger :-) | 20:12 |
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| Stskeeps | it was just that they werent needed | 20:13 |
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| Stskeeps | (so what brings a dane here?) | 20:13 |
| macavity | :-) | 20:13 |
| macavity | my GF's oldest kid just bought an N900, so i figured i better get up to speed on everything relevant to it | 20:14 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:14 |
| macavity | ... as this old slackware rat is probably going to get bombarded with questions about it soon ;-) | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001972.html tells a bit about how we deal with a open system and closed gles libs | 20:15 |
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| macavity | anyhow, you are aiming at the new TTM backed kernel module and the psb DDX that are in the molds at Tungsten, so only the Gallium3D "JIT" will be closed, right? | 20:16 |
| macavity | ah, too late | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | libs are closed, kernel is open, on n900 | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | psb is a different nightmare | 20:18 |
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| Stskeeps | the idea is to provide them on a repo you get an url for when agreeing to a eula, if you own a n900 | 20:18 |
| macavity | riiight.. i apparently just made a series of assumptions about IA<->ARM | 20:18 |
| suihkulokki | tungsten is no more, vmware bought them | 20:19 |
| macavity | i am fairly intimate with the Xorg stack for a non-programmer/packager | 20:19 |
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| macavity | suihkulokki: i know.. i just still refere to Keith's team at VMware as "tungsten graphics".. since its still the same guys | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | xorg side on n900 is a slightly butchered fbdev drv | 20:19 |
| macavity | O_O | 20:20 |
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| macavity | ok, that is not exactly what i expected | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | but quite well written, so worth looking at the source | 20:20 |
| macavity | my C is more rusty than you can imagine :-/ | 20:21 |
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| macavity | anyhow, i will dig into this and deside when i think maemo5 is replaceable with meego | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | m5's quite good on its own | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | and meego's a cool project but in its infancy | 20:23 |
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| macavity | i gathered as much | 20:25 |
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| Stskeeps | but considering a rock solid stack (moblin core) and rock solid toolkit for mobile (qt).. | 20:25 |
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| Corsac | well, the toolkit's not really enough to have a desktop stack :) | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | still | 20:26 |
| suy_ | it helps :) | 20:26 |
| macavity | i just figured i better stay up to date with the portable/mobile side of things.. as i will probably end up ramming my head against a samba4 client on the n900 sooner or later | 20:26 |
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| Stskeeps | we used to have smb support straight in libhildonfm | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | got removed though | 20:27 |
| macavity | i will need AD support eventually | 20:27 |
| macavity | thats the whole point in fusing a computer with a telephone imho :P | 20:28 |
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| Stskeeps | a lot of stuff possible | 20:35 |
| suy_ | btw, i know this has probably been asked lots of times, but... any guess on when there will be meego based devices? (specially phones) | 20:35 |
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| Stskeeps | depends if you mean ports or products with meego in them | 20:37 |
| suy_ | i mean a new device with meego already installed | 20:37 |
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| thiago_home | suy_: most companies don't tell when their devices will be released. | 20:38 |
| suy_ | my guess is the end of the year, if meego 1.0 is Q2-2010 | 20:38 |
| suy_ | thiago_home: yes, i understand, it's just that i'm eager to buy a new phone, and i don't know if i should wait for a symbian^3 one, or wait even more for a meego one | 20:39 |
| suy_ | i just want one with Qt to play a little bit 0:-) | 20:39 |
| thiago_home | despite the misleading announcements, the N8 is not the first phone with Qt in | 20:40 |
| thiago_home | there's the N900 | 20:40 |
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| clipartcat | thiago_home, well not until pr1.2 it's not officially supported I think. | 20:42 |
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| clipartcat | even thought you could install it | 20:42 |
| thiago_home | it still has Qt | 20:42 |
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| thiago_home | and PR1.2 will ship before the N8 (hopefully) | 20:42 |
| suy_ | well... technically i can install Qt on my n81 too, but i don't have space in the phone memory | 20:42 |
| clipartcat | thiago_home, you've been able to install qt demos etc on s60 devices for a long time I think. | 20:43 |
| suy_ | if the n900 were more phone (less landscape-based), i'd probably go for the n900 | 20:43 |
| clipartcat | I think there is even official demos package. | 20:43 |
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| sulx | to have QT is different thing than having the native UI written with QT | 20:49 |
| sulx | N900 is GTK and N8 is QT | 20:49 |
| suy_ | i doubt the apps on the N8 will be written in Qt (no time to rewrite them) | 20:50 |
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| leinir | suy_: s/QT/Qt/ There, i fixed it for you ;) | 20:52 |
| leinir | ehrm... sulx even :P | 20:52 |
| leinir | (damn, fail ;) ) | 20:52 |
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| sulx | heh | 20:52 |
| sulx | ok thanks | 20:52 |
| suy_ | hehe, i'm very picky with Qt/QT too :) | 20:53 |
| thiago_home | sulx: N8 is Avkon | 20:53 |
| thiago_home | N8++ will be Qt | 20:53 |
| leinir | suy_: As you should be :) | 20:53 |
| sulx | ok whatever...;) | 20:53 |
| sulx | I hate symbian... | 20:53 |
| thiago_home | I don't hate it. I hate having to deal with it. | 20:54 |
| sulx | that too | 20:54 |
| clipartcat | i'd ride with sybian | 20:54 |
| sulx | symbian is like 80's car with new chromed rim covers | 20:55 |
| RST38h | Avkon....errrr | 20:55 |
| sulx | oil changed once | 20:55 |
| RST38h | Actually, it is not like that | 20:55 |
| RST38h | It does look ok on the outside, once a zillion Nokia engineers spends a year debugging their software | 20:56 |
| RST38h | On the inside, though, everything that came on top of the very basic Symbian APIs existing for 10+ years is a bloody mess | 20:56 |
| RST38h | The same Avkon for example, almost impossible to program for | 20:57 |
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| RST38h | Usually comes down to copying examples, laborously found on the Net, exactly, because any tiny change causes the app to crash | 20:58 |
| RST38h | And even if your app does not crash for you, it crashes for someone else, with a different phone model or just different firmware | 20:58 |
| RST38h | Eikon is kinda usable, except that Nokia broke it, so parts of it do not even work on S60 phones (they worked on UIQ phones though) | 20:59 |
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| RST38h | Pretty much the only working API there is STDIO, that Nokia implemented in order to satisfy JVM (!!!) requirements (!!!!) | 21:00 |
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| ShadowJK | i thought the stdio was a bit broken, atleast considering how it works from python | 21:01 |
| suy_ | at least now is open source :) | 21:02 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: comparing ro Symbian's own file access API...mhmm... :) | 21:03 |
| thiago_home | OpenC is bad too | 21:04 |
| RST38h | ANyone has got a Karmic 32bit machine by any chance? | 21:04 |
| thiago_home | portions of Qt that were written to use OpenC are being rewritten with native Symbian | 21:04 |
| RST38h | thiago: I did not even try OpenC as it requires installing additional libraries on many phones | 21:05 |
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| thiago_home | pips | 21:05 |
| thiago_home | "Pips Isn't Posix for Symbian" | 21:05 |
| RST38h | Not feasible commercially | 21:05 |
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| thiago_home | well, Qt depends on it | 21:06 |
| thiago_home | anyway, Symbian is a Unix system with all the bad habits from Windowssssssssssss | 21:06 |
| RST38h | It is not really a Unix syste, | 21:07 |
| thiago_home | backslashes as path separators, ordinals, declspec(dllexport), no good C library, drives | 21:07 |
| RST38h | It is a sand castle built by a bunch of asperger's patients | 21:07 |
| thiago_home | lol | 21:07 |
| RST38h | For two decades, too | 21:07 |
| suy_ | people say that they had their reasons to do it like that at that time, no? | 21:08 |
| thiago_home | you can look at it from another angle, which is a Windows-like system with ELF (-like) binaries | 21:08 |
| thiago_home | well, yeah, if you look at phones of 8 years ago, they had very little memory, small screens and slow processors | 21:09 |
| thiago_home | today's smartphones are as powerful as Pentium IIIs | 21:09 |
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| RST38h | Everybody says he has "reasons" | 21:11 |
| RST38h | A lot of time the main reason is the inability to see the larger picture | 21:12 |
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| RST38h | (typical example: Java :)) | 21:13 |
| Surfa | problems with java? | 21:14 |
| Surfa | i think java has it's benefits | 21:14 |
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| andyross | Last I looked at Symbian (5+ years ago) the binaries weren't ELF at all, they were using a hacked binutils to generate PE/COFF files and then post-processing them with their own script. But all the tools and linkage rules were as for windows, not ELF. | 21:15 |
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| thiago_home | andyross: e32 is ELF-like | 21:16 |
| thiago_home | it generates ELF binaries, then strips of the symbols and uses ordinals | 21:16 |
| andyross | Maybe things have changed then. But I distinctly remember dealing with the win32-style map files. I'm all but certain they weren't ever generating ELF. | 21:17 |
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| thiago_home | .def files still exist | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | where do i get the latest SDK install files from? are they whats offered direct from qt.nokia.com/downloads - or somewhere else (I mean the one with the simulator for n900 etc) | 21:27 |
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| lcuk | the 2010.02 release is whats offered in the lgpl link | 21:28 |
| thiago_home | that's the Qt SDK. The Nokia Qt SDK is in forum.nokia.com somewhere | 21:29 |
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| suy_ | http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/ | 21:29 |
| lcuk | well i thought as much thiago_home, thanks suy_ \o you are a gent | 21:30 |
| lcuk | (or a lady) | 21:31 |
| lcuk | the url doesnt roll off the tongue as easily tho | 21:31 |
| suy_ | yes, quite a long URL | 21:31 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, how come the beta is so hidden away? | 21:32 |
| thiago_home | as RST38h said, everyone has "reasons" | 21:33 |
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| * lcuk never saw that comment, just got back from tea | 21:34 | |
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| thiago_home | it was in an unrelated subject | 21:35 |
| thiago_home | there are some reasons not to make a big splash about this now | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | but all of twitter went gaga? | 21:36 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> and we have had folks in #maemo wanting to do same | 21:36 |
| lcuk | (just pasted into maemo lol) | 21:37 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, i got multicast working in python nicely | 21:37 |
| thiago_home | cool | 21:37 |
| thiago_home | anyway, marketing needs to relearn how to work now with twitter | 21:38 |
| thiago_home | you can't bury news | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | well people are excited ! its an open platform | 21:38 |
| thiago_home | indeed | 21:38 |
| thiago_home | but I guess the point is that it's not finished | 21:38 |
| lcuk | linux developers dont come to see a masterpiece | 21:39 |
| lcuk | they come because they want to help build the barn | 21:39 |
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| thiago_home | agreed, but again, this is corporate marketing | 21:39 |
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| thiago_home | they are thinking of partner companies, journalists, investors and the Symbian Foundation (and its members) | 21:39 |
| lcuk | we got another community app filling in the maemo pieces starting at the moment | 21:42 |
| lcuk | a few people have started a vertical sms app to complement the system :) | 21:42 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: more interested in the app manager replacement though =) | 21:43 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, the one that works on 810 too? | 21:44 |
| RST38h | dunno, the one that works =) | 21:44 |
| lcuk | wheres a link to the thread? | 21:44 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: btw, the other day you were looking for people who know Qt. Try #qt next time :-) | 21:45 |
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| RST38h | thiago; Oh, I found what I wanted | 21:47 |
| RST38h | thiago: Actually not entirely, but ok | 21:47 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, is it the telescope project? | 21:48 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7xVOC8zI8o | 21:48 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: No, don't think so, appdownloader I think | 21:48 |
| RST38h | thiago: I still cannot figure out how to use Qt SDK to create a resiable rotatable UI | 21:48 |
| lcuk | ohhhh gawd yeah im thinking completely different | 21:48 |
| RST38h | thiago: the top window seems to require fixed size | 21:48 |
| lcuk | RST38h, set window to be fullscreen, when window resize occurs adjust your content? | 21:49 |
| suy_ | content should be adjusted automatically if you use layouts (assuming you have widgets) | 21:50 |
| lcuk | RST38h, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/appdownloader/0.1-2/ from danielwilms written in qt | 21:50 |
| lcuk | interfaces with maemo.org | 21:50 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: nor do I. My apps don't have UIs, much less that rotate. | 21:50 |
| RST38h | yea, that is it, but has too many bugs right now | 21:51 |
| lcuk | http://danielwilms.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/download-assistant-for-extras-applications/ | 21:51 |
| lcuk | yeah but the principle is bang on | 21:51 |
| RST38h | only end product matters | 21:51 |
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| lcuk | the Nokia SDK beta installation, do i need to uninstall every other qt sdk i have prior to starting? | 22:00 |
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| thiago_home | no | 22:05 |
| lcuk | cool beans | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | in the future, it should be possible to download extra components | 22:07 |
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| thiago_home | like a MeeGo sysroot and toolchain | 22:07 |
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| lcuk | hey, did you know on the EULA for the nokia qt setup wizard on my desktop, the list of open source licenses link opens up blank, and also the link to the EULA itself opens blank window - hence accepting the terms is cool for all uses? | 22:09 |
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| lcuk | (first step of installing) | 22:09 |
| lcuk | it says that source is available for 3 years | 22:09 |
| lcuk | but when i click the links within a text editor opens up with blank document | 22:09 |
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| * lcuk wonders why the eulas point to a secondary location instead of just listing the eula terms in the eula text box itself | 22:11 | |
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| jedix | anyone here? | 23:25 |
| jedix | I'm wondering about repo.meego.com | 23:26 |
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| jedix | I wanted to get the source package for the distrp | 23:26 |
| jedix | distro | 23:26 |
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| * CosmoHill stares at jedix | 23:30 | |
| CosmoHill | Aren't you a kids tv channel i used to watch? | 23:30 |
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| jedix | negative | 23:35 |
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