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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:09 |
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| milliams | it is in 10 minutes :) | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | I count it as tuesday until I go to sleep | 01:51 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 02:21 |
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| koupsaa | hoz to setup a zifi connexion with connmand | 02:35 |
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| mu_mind | I'm running the Nokia pre-built image on QEMU, but I can't even type anything in the terminal that comes up, and it hangs when I try to shut it down... is that normal? | 05:03 |
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| *** ChanServ changes topic to "MeeGo - http://meego.com - FAQ: http://meego.com/about/faq | This channel is logged, see them at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who - add yourself | Blog post, Day One is here: http://bit.ly/9sQdbg | TSG meetings every Wednesday 19:00 UTC, http://bit.ly/bRZVMa in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions" | 06:51 | |
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| NewGo | hi guys. I've downloaded the netbook imgae from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ , dd'ed it to a SD disk, boot up, & select an option from the ment: run or install. neither option work & I'm missing /usr/bin/liveint | 06:54 |
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| NewGo | is anyone online, or just otherwise distracted? | 06:57 |
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| erichong | hi | 08:46 |
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| erichong | are there a developer for Meego? | 08:47 |
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| tmzt_ | it's not the best time to ask for people | 08:53 |
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| open-nandra | hey all | 10:28 |
| open-nandra | is possible to run custom build image for mmego to run on qemu? | 10:29 |
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| Stskeeps | x86 or arm | 10:29 |
| open-nandra | Stskeeps: try to build for arm | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | we have a n900 one at least | 10:30 |
| open-nandra | I try to follow wiki to run image on qemu but I'm not N900 owner so I don't have IMEI and I can't download it | 10:30 |
| open-nandra | so I try to build it by myself | 10:30 |
| open-nandra | strange is that result image has 4G | 10:31 |
| open-nandra | it's normal? | 10:31 |
| open-nandra | I used arm-n900.ks | 10:31 |
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| Stskeeps | that's for loop images | 10:33 |
| open-nandra | ok and how can I create image for qemu? | 10:33 |
| open-nandra | other input option? | 10:34 |
| open-nandra | Stskeeps: anyway mic-image-creator and also mic-check-alldep has a problems on opensuse | 10:35 |
| open-nandra | can I send somewhere path? | 10:35 |
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| dneary__ | morning | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | morn dneary__ | 12:36 |
| Termana | dneary__: good morning | 12:37 |
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| lle2 | hello, anybody know if TSG meeting agenda on the wiki (http://wiki.meego.com/TSG_meetings) is up to date? Just trying to decide if I'll hang around tonight or not, currently there doesn't seem to be much of interest | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | i'd say those are actually quite big :P | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | as in, for work | 13:46 |
| lle2 | how? there doesn't seem to be any specific decisions to be taken other than documentation license (which is not terribly exciting, even if it is necessary) | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | well, knowing how the WG's and work is supposed to be structured and who is put in as initial roles | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | i personally would like who to poke over issues, instead of bothering the TSG | 13:48 |
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| lle2 | well, since I've not been asked for any role, I assume I won't have one, so I can just read the outcome tomorrow, no need to attend in person | 13:51 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:52 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, i read minutes these days too unless i have some items | 13:52 |
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| th0br0 | Uh, who is in charge of putting the forum on meego.com? Apparently, some link is wrong, as after clicking log in (from the forum page) and logging in successfully, you're redirected to meego.com/forum and not forum.meego.com | 13:54 |
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| th0br0 | or should that find its way to bugzilla? | 13:54 |
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| Stskeeps | Reggie | 13:54 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: ? | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: Bug raised | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | the guy in charge, Reggie Suplido or something :) | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: http://bugzilla.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=551 | 13:54 |
| th0br0 | ah. | 13:54 |
| th0br0 | thanks Jaffa | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: Going to be fixed today, apparently. | 13:55 |
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| th0br0 | ok. | 13:55 |
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| DawnFoster | Just a quick reminder that we are having a TSG meeting in 4 hours: Wednesday 19:00 UTC in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions | 17:57 |
| DawnFoster | Agenda & other logistics: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 17:57 |
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| Stskeeps | looking forward to see the two first, organisation is a bit of a blur atm :P | 17:58 |
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| th0br0 | yep Stskeeps | 18:35 |
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| om26er | what is meego using for boot splash | 20:12 |
| om26er | is it plymouth? | 20:13 |
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| anaZ | yes | 20:26 |
| anaZ | plymouth-lite | 20:26 |
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| koupsaa | what is plymouth? | 20:37 |
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| koivula | it's a car | 20:38 |
| koupsaa | ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok | 20:38 |
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| * TSCHAKeee got bored... http://www.localeconcept.com/pub/SmartQV7/orbiter-glamour-shot-smartq-v7.png | 20:40 | |
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| Stskeeps | is it v7 or q7? | 20:41 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: V7 | 20:43 |
| TSCHAKeee | they both look the same from the front | 20:43 |
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| Stskeeps | what kernel does that have? version wise | 20:44 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: good question, let me see :D | 20:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: looks like a vanilla 2.6.28 with PREEMPT enabled, built for armv6l | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | built in chinese fashion, slam the hardware together, does it turn on, okay, port the most basic linux we can think of, does it boot up and launch apps? okay? SHIP IT! | 21:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 21:00 |
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| Stskeeps | well, sortof, the guys behind are actually fairly nice :) | 21:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | have you talked with them? | 21:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | i'm frustrated there is no Mali200 support :((( | 21:02 |
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| TSCHAKeee | a few of us have been able to use the BSP to do OpenGL-ES support, but no X | 21:02 |
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| TSCHAKeee | and getting it to that point, was absolutely painful | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | they push their kernel to us once in a while still | 21:03 |
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| TSCHAKeee | good | 21:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: this hardware has some great potential | 21:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: but the lack of device drivers for the interesting chips is a real choke point. | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | of course | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | but mali's as bad situation as SGX i think | 21:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 21:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | i understand and yet i do not understand why | 21:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it is this idiocy that will ultimately give intel breathing room to push ahead. | 21:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | of course, now intel is putting SGX cores in their stuff too now | 21:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | :/ | 21:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | hm | 21:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | *facepalm* | 21:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | i mean, even in this configuration, I get about 12 hours of battery use out of this tablet | 21:05 |
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| TSCHAKeee | as a simple orbiter | 21:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | that is fantastic | 21:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | and that's without pushing the cpu into suspend | 21:06 |
| microlith | TSCHAKeee: wasn't the GMA500 the only chip they put the PowerVR in? | 21:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | i know that one for sure | 21:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | hm | 21:07 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i liked the gma500 from a systems design standpoint | 21:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | but again..getting drivers required me to sell a pound of flesh | 21:08 |
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| DawnFoster | The TSG meeting is in about 20 minutes: Wednesday 19:00 UTC in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions. Agenda & other logistics: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | single signon the the forum software results in being slightly misleading. i did not know where the foum configuration options were. is there any mechanism to tie in the preferences too (or provide a link) | 21:53 |
| lcuk | (i wanted to change my forum sofware thread subscriptions and email on reply settings) | 21:53 |
| lcuk | found it in the end, but it wasnt where i expected it to be | 21:53 |
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| X-Fade | Well, at least you can use the same account. | 21:54 |
| X-Fade | That is a good start. | 21:54 |
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| lcuk | yes X-Fade of course, just highlighting one of the difficulties with principles | 21:54 |
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| vitrepin | join #meego-meeting-questions | 22:09 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm wondering if it is a bit of a problem there's not many questions.. | 22:22 |
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| tekojo_ | Stskeeps, how? | 22:23 |
| macron | There was very little to discuss, we are all waiting for an update blog post. | 22:23 |
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| Stskeeps | tekojo_: worrying that things might be fizzing out :P | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | since there's normally a lot of relevant or even non-relevant questions :) | 22:24 |
| macron | The documentation license seems like a done deal.... | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | but i guess cruising altitude might also have been reached | 22:24 |
| VDVsx | 'big' holidays :) | 22:24 |
| haataja | but isn't it just good to default to CC? | 22:25 |
| macron | Well it was about only 3 working days since the last meeting. | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | true, true | 22:25 |
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| X-Fade | Maybe it is me, but I feel meetings like this are only useful when things are prepared ahead. If there is nothing prepared, skip it. | 22:26 |
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| X-Fade | Don't have a meeting to have a meeting. | 22:26 |
| alexbez | They should have canceled this meeting, then. So far it is pretty uninformative IMHO | 22:26 |
| macron | So far two WG proposals have been rejected based on the structure of the Meego projects etc., so there is no real point to propose anything until more information is known. | 22:27 |
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| th0br0 | oh right, the meeting | 22:27 |
| arjan | this license thing is useless | 22:27 |
| arjan | table the proposal and make it come back when it's more defined | 22:27 |
| X-Fade | I'm no expert, but is including CC documentation in GPL software a good idea? | 22:28 |
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| macron | The documentation license thingy might be important, currently all the input in wiki.meego.com is not licensed (so somebody could claim it). | 22:28 |
| arjan | X-Fade: maybe maybe not.. but a TSG meeting ought not find out | 22:28 |
| arjan | should have been done in the proposal | 22:28 |
| lcuk | arjan, +1 confusion requires clarification first | 22:28 |
| X-Fade | arjan: That is why I said it needed preparation. | 22:28 |
| th0br0 | pretty empty today huh? | 22:28 |
| X-Fade | Not just, do you like the sound of it :) | 22:28 |
| * GeneralAntilles expects contributors are still having trouble getting involved. | 22:29 | |
| arjan | the flames on the list are fun tho :0 | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Enthusiasm has been slowly fizzing away since the announcement. . . . | 22:29 |
| th0br0 | why should it be different, after all, GeneralAntilles? | 22:29 |
| arjan | random people pissing off other people ;) | 22:29 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, only a shell, what do you expected :P | 22:30 |
| th0br0 | GeneralAntilles: i mean, things haven't been different from google's android codedump so far, although, clearly, attempts are made to bring the community closer to the real development. | 22:30 |
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| X-Fade | I feel this thing needs to be decentralized as soon as possible so actual work can get started. | 22:31 |
| *** pvanhoof- has joined #meego | 22:31 | |
| X-Fade | Explain the projects concept and set them up. | 22:31 |
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| th0br0 | yep. | 22:32 |
| macron | Yep. | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | th0br0, I feel a bit like roadblocks are being setup to non-Nokia/Intel contribution | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whether intentional or not | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | and whether they're only perceived or not | 22:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's a sentiment I've heard from a lot of people and I think it's hurting the project. | 22:33 |
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| TSCHAKeee | oh i just loved percieved barriers | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | point them out as people who work within the processes may be blind to them | 22:34 |
| haataja | I think the story has not yet got upto speed.. | 22:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | whether or not they actually exist or not :P | 22:34 |
| th0br0 | GeneralAntilles: rephrase please | 22:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | th0br0, it's feels like its tough for people not from Nokia or Intel to actually get input noticed or accepted. | 22:35 |
| th0br0 | i second that. | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lot of talk about openness, but it's yet to be matched with a whole lot of action. | 22:35 |
| * TSCHAKeee facepalms | 22:36 | |
| javispedro | lol lcuk | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, ohnoes! Buuuurn. | 22:36 |
| th0br0 | yeap GeneralAntilles | 22:36 |
| lcuk | :) just an open discussion | 22:36 |
| arjan | maybe I should post a patch to meego-dev | 22:36 |
| arjan | like wow an actual contribution on the mailing list ;) | 22:37 |
| * GeneralAntilles is off to errands. | 22:37 | |
| th0br0 | bye GeneralAntilles | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | arjan, -developers sucks in Maemo, too. | 22:37 |
| arjan | don't complain on not being able to contribute if you haven't even tried sending a patch ;) | 22:38 |
| javispedro | because it's used as a "development questions" ml | 22:38 |
| X-Fade | Well, it seems 2 months too early for outside contributors. Hopefully it will get better when the bootstrapping phase is over. | 22:38 |
| TSCHAKeee | stuff really just started | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | except people claimed day one was the thing we should wait for :/ | 22:38 |
| TSCHAKeee | i'm wondering where all this percieved negative sentiment is coming from | 22:38 |
| X-Fade | Yes, but that is just too optimistic :) | 22:38 |
| th0br0 | TSCHAKeee: "just" is 2 months ago | 22:38 |
| * javispedro makes iPopcorn | 22:39 | |
| TSCHAKeee | this is silly. | 22:39 |
| haataja | has "tgis" actually "started" yet? | 22:39 |
| Jaffa | arjan: Well, last time I asked about architecture discussions on the ML, I was told "go upstream"; so I assume that's where everyone is sending patches :-p | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: on a sidenote, do you have any opinions on least-capabilities of devices? GLES2 and GL? | 22:40 |
| arjan | gles2 is really the minimum | 22:41 |
| arjan | opengl gives you more | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:41 |
| arjan | it also depends on the specific device | 22:41 |
| javispedro | wouldn't that depend on the ux used too | 22:41 |
| VDVsx | ouch 13 devices, it reminds someone that I know :P | 22:41 |
| arjan | netbook/slate/etc I expect a GL stack | 22:41 |
| arjan | while on really small devices GLES2 might be more appropriate | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: but even for qt we'd need to say 'use gles2' | 22:41 |
| spoussa | small is beautifull in handsets -> GLES | 22:42 |
| javispedro | dunno | 22:42 |
| arjan | the amoutn of visual things you do on a 3.5" handset screen is different than what you do on a 7" or 11" screen | 22:42 |
| arjan | on a 3.5" screen you only do one app at a time etc | 22:42 |
| arjan | for example | 22:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | I would also argue that on larger pad displays as well | 22:43 |
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| arjan | pads are interesting question | 22:43 |
| arjan | apple scaled up their phone UI | 22:43 |
| arjan | not sure if that is the right answer | 22:43 |
| X-Fade | arjan: Yes and no. It is proportional to size too. Larger screened devices usually have a bit more powerful harware. | 22:43 |
| arjan | X-Fade: yup.. | 22:43 |
| TSCHAKeee | it was partially right | 22:43 |
| TSCHAKeee | i do think something like Maemo's Fremantle or Harmattan UI on a large tablet would be a good start. | 22:44 |
| GAN900 | arjan, I'm not a developer. :) | 22:44 |
| arjan | TSCHAKeee: I'll put money on that there will be many of these, and each variation will be tried | 22:44 |
| GAN900 | arjan, don't play the "you can only contrbute through code" game. :) | 22:44 |
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| arjan | TSCHAKeee: we'll see over time which answers will stick and which will suck | 22:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | arjan: i will be one of the one trying. One of the key aspects of my work with LinuxMCE is designing a universal UI to be used throughout an entire house. | 22:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | across many embedded devices | 22:45 |
| arjan | GAN900: I'm not a code-ist ;) | 22:45 |
| haataja | I wonder when the roles and nominations come in calendarwise. | 22:46 |
| th0br0 | haataja: =) | 22:47 |
| spoussa | haataja: I am guessing within the next 2 weeks... | 22:47 |
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| haataja | th0br0: it is tough thing to set up, lot of "proprietary inheritance" in there. (at least on mindset) | 22:48 |
| * RST38h loudly wonders why the amount of visual things matters | 22:49 | |
| haataja | patience would be a virtue.. | 22:49 |
| RST38h | Eyecandy does not make device more useful | 22:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: ta | 22:50 |
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| lbt | TSCHAKeee: jogglers arrived | 22:51 |
| th0br0 | haataja: patience is present; however, given the roadmap (meego 1.0 release in 2 months) and our current condition, i don't know whether the community will have much influence on the first release | 22:51 |
| Jaffa | Joggler fun. It's use as a pretty clock has become pretty limited :-) | 22:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | RST38h: sigh. but it does not mean it should not be attempted at all | 22:52 |
| Jaffa | qgil might be about to get frustrated :-) | 22:52 |
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| TSCHAKeee | this is why honestly, i can't stand stand the open source/free software people sometimes | 22:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | (and yes, I can comment on it, I've been in this world for almost two decades) | 22:53 |
| th0br0 | TSCHAKeee: be more pragmatic! duh! ;) | 22:53 |
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| lbt | heh - I guess I missed the meeting | 22:54 |
| arjan | th0br0: it took fedora, opensuse etc all a long time to really open up | 22:54 |
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| arjan | but really what influence do you want? | 22:54 |
| Jaffa | Ah, the good old "you can't expect things to change overnight". I've heard that before somewhere ;-) | 22:54 |
| RST38h | TSHAKeee: It means eyecandy should not be attempted at the cost of usability | 22:54 |
| arjan | Jaffa: so what do you really want? | 22:54 |
| X-Fade | If we take 2 years to open up, this project is doomed. | 22:54 |
| arjan | please be specific ;) | 22:54 |
| RST38h | (and may we remember Clutter here? =)) | 22:54 |
| * Stskeeps had the impression day 1 was where things were supposed to 'switch' to open mode, as well | 22:54 | |
| Jaffa | arjan: Difficult to know without knowing what the decisions are ;-) | 22:55 |
| arjan | because sending an email or bugzilla is a good way to get people influenced | 22:55 |
| GAN900 | arjan, then don't say you need to contribute a patch before you can complain. ;) | 22:55 |
| arjan | Jaffa: you've seen the current code | 22:55 |
| arjan | is there anything you want different? | 22:55 |
| RST38h | arjan: Actually, based on the maemo.org experience, I can pretty much tell you exactly what *I* would want (can't say for Jaffa) | 22:55 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Go on | 22:55 |
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| arjan | please speak up | 22:55 |
| arjan | what kind of change do you want in the os | 22:56 |
| * Jaffa is trying to sort out build problems at work whilst trying to come up with a winning, simple, example ;-) | 22:56 | |
| lcuk | GAN900, i expect regular patches from you if the documentation stored on the git repository needs updating or templates for the wiki or process notes for dealing with xyz need updating | 22:56 |
| arjan | lets discuss it in the open ;) | 22:56 |
| arjan | I'm not trying to be defensive here | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: btw, meego-arch@ mailing list might be good, to seperate out from -dev | 22:56 |
| arjan | but I am fishing for things that we can improve | 22:56 |
| RST38h | 1. Mobile version of the OS running on actual easily available hardware (N900 would be nice, but any readily available stuff like HTC would do) | 22:56 |
| th0br0 | arjan: well, i wasn't active back when fedora opened up... i might have used bad wording, i'm just talking about the fact that (at least from my pov) there is hardly anything constructive going on... i mean, there are 2 ppl who spread information once a week but not much else is really going on... at least, hardly anything public. i'm missing transparency and clear project structures; I find it hard to understand, that these are not present. | 22:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | i pretty much expected, even with meego..that there would be the value added stuff on top of the open stuff. | 22:56 |
| RST38h | Every week without #1 reduces the number of people interested in Meego | 22:56 |
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| arjan | RST38h: so we have n900 images | 22:57 |
| RST38h | 2. Extras-like repository for MeeGo, but without the red tape that is asphyxiating Maemo5 Extras right now | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | Novell guys? | 22:57 |
| RST38h | Something like Maemo4 Extras more or less | 22:57 |
| th0br0 | I understand that the release was due to the congress, but the project was and still is sort of immature regarding organization etc... well,... | 22:57 |
| Jaffa | arjan: Last meeting (or whichever it was you participated in) you said something like "we're still trying to work out how [that] will [work/fit together]". Something gstreamer based IIRC, regarding integration with the rest of MeeGo. | 22:57 |
| RST38h | arjan: the images you have show an xterm window. | 22:58 |
| RST38h | arjan: Who needs an OS that opens an xterm window and stays there? | 22:58 |
| haataja | th0br0: couldn't agree more.. | 22:58 |
| arjan | RST38h: extras will need always some legal review.. that's just the current reality in the world | 22:58 |
| th0br0 | RST38h: lbt and i were told to discuss that on the ml further, but without much organization-wise info there isn't much we can do... alas, the last meeting was kinda rushed. | 22:58 |
| arjan | (even debian does that in practice) | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | 3. Lively forum that caters to both Meego Developers and the current Maemo users | 22:58 |
| Jaffa | arjan: Where's that conversation happening? It's not gstreamer specific, so it doesn't seem likely that it's going to be gstreamer-dev@gstreamer.org (or whatever). It's the kind of thing which that Stskeeps' suggestion of meego-arch@ would deal with. | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | (should I explain why Maemo users are important here?) | 22:59 |
| jeremiah_ | arjan: Debian has no formal legal review | 22:59 |
| jeremiah_ | We just make sure we can assign copyright. | 22:59 |
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| th0br0 | nor does fedora actually; if the reviewer has legal doubts, he can tag the review request and fedora legal will take a look at it ... | 22:59 |
| arjan | jeremiah: for 3rd party packages? there's a list of approved licenses etc | 22:59 |
| RST38h | 4. The usual subsections of the site: Developer Documentation, News, Bugtracker | 22:59 |
| jeremiah_ | th0br0: Yeah, same in Debian. | 22:59 |
| th0br0 | arjan: that's not really legal review though... | 22:59 |
| ali1234 | if we're enumerating what we want... i'm not interested in having "influence" over someone else's project... i require nothing more or less than the ability to make my own functionally equivalent fork | 22:59 |
| jeremiah_ | arjan: There is the debian free software guidlines and a legal mailing list, that's it | 23:00 |
| RST38h | 5. Let normal users (which you will get by implementing #1) participate in making Meego better | 23:00 |
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| * lcuk vanishes again \o | 23:00 | |
| RST38h | arjan: I think I am done. | 23:00 |
| Jaffa | ali1234: Building an N900 image based on Mer which boots to xterm should be pretty straight forward ;-) | 23:00 |
| th0br0 | RST38h: =) i agree with you. | 23:00 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, pink ponies ? no ? | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: on a sidenote, the four of you are the 'official' meego top level architects? | 23:00 |
| ali1234 | Jaffa: straight forward yes, functionally equivalent no | 23:00 |
| VDVsx | :P | 23:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Have I listed all the important points? | 23:00 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Nah, you can save on the ponies =) | 23:00 |
| VDVsx | :( | 23:00 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Ok, I will take half the cash saved on the ponies. | 23:01 |
| spoussa | Stskeeps: yes, so ? | 23:01 |
| th0br0 | It would be great if Imad or valhalla could actually get in here once and actively participate in discussion... so far, they've mostly just been around from meeting begin to meeting end ... | 23:01 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Long term ones, yeah. As th0br0 says, lbt's repo working group stuff was shot down/shelved pending "project structure" and/or CWG responsibility | 23:01 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: How familiar... | 23:01 |
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| w00t_ | evening thiago_home | 23:02 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, agree with almost everything apart from n. 2, some moderation is needed if you're catering regular users | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | Jaffa: the answer we were given wasn't too precise tbh... "# AGREED: the discussion will follow in meego-dev. This topic is considered important and there is not common understanding to decide now (qgil, 20:40:44)" | 23:02 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Yes, but we have been discussion this one with javispedro today | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | spoussa: was an extension on the discussion of a meego-arch mailing list - because many of the questions TSG is getting asked (technical) is actually closer to architecture questions. and my curiousity was how architect group will be working within the project | 23:03 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: I would actually prefer gradual limits on what new users can do to moderation | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | VDVsx: that could be solved by doing sth like fedora's bodhi (packages need karma to be accepted into the official extras repository) | 23:03 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: X-Fade's point about TSG meeting prep again being germane. | 23:03 |
| thiago_home | w00t_: hey | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | Jaffa: rephrase please. | 23:03 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Moderators are human and thus tend to fall into unwanted behavioral patterns | 23:03 |
| spoussa | Stskeeps: I think the meego-arch mailing list proposal is not bad... | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | Or rather, what do you mean? :) | 23:03 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: software can be tuned once and work the same forever | 23:04 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, that's true, then you should complain :) | 23:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | are there transcribed minutes? | 23:04 |
| *** haataja has quit IRC | 23:04 | |
| Stskeeps | yes | 23:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 23:04 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: You complain and get blown off. You whine then and start a war. Nobody wants THAT. | 23:04 |
| th0br0 | TSCHAKeee: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/ | 23:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | groovy | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-04-07-18.58.html | 23:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | thanks :D | 23:04 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Simply limiting new users to 3 comments a day (no new threads) and then raising this threshold with time will do 75% of the job. Moderators can take care of the rest | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | isn't that more of a maemo topic? | 23:05 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: X-Fade made the point that the TSG meetings seem like they've not had the necessary level of preparation; possibly from imad and valhalla. I think the Repo WG problems were a perfect example of that. No common understanding of what "garage" meant or what Extras was. | 23:05 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Applies to any forum, maemo or meego | 23:05 |
| th0br0 | Jaffa: ah yeah, i do agree with that. | 23:06 |
| th0br0 | i noticed sth similar back then... but ... :S | 23:06 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Meego forums will get exactly the same problem as soon as there are Meego devices sold to general populace | 23:06 |
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| * thiago_home likes "QUESTION: Imad, we found out you have an iphone earlier this week" | 23:06 | |
| VDVsx | lcuk, ++ :P | 23:06 |
| th0br0 | if only those two guys would get in actualy contact with us :) no xenophobia please! | 23:06 |
| jeremiah_ | thiago_home: heh | 23:06 |
| RST38h | thiago: "...can we interest you in switching to N900"? =) | 23:06 |
| jeremiah_ | th0br0: Ain't gonna happen | 23:06 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, but there is something to say for eating your own dogfood. | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | jeremiah_: but why ...? | 23:07 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: he did say he had an N900 | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: ideally TSG would be the last people we'd have to talk to, though | 23:07 |
| jeremiah_ | th0br0: They have 'important' stuff to do | 23:07 |
| X-Fade | So he should have sent that from pine from his MeeGo xterm :) | 23:07 |
| RST38h | thiago: Ah, but did he...eh...use? | 23:07 |
| jeremiah_ | X-Fade: lol! | 23:07 |
| VDVsx | lol | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: well, true. but how else is the community supposed to provide input if they aren't talking to us and available to us? | 23:07 |
| jeremiah_ | :) | 23:07 |
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| javispedro | but does ANYBODY know all about meego? | 23:07 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: You mean there is networking? | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: we should have exact people to contact, hence why the whole roles thing is a bit bad it is not figured out yet | 23:07 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, no!!! | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | javispedro: i don't think there is an "all", not yet... | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: yeah. and those ppl should be active on irc, too... | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: the problem is that besides quim and dawnfoster and TSG, noone's official yet | 23:08 |
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| * RST38h goes off to watch a movie | 23:08 | |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: true. | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | well, and the architects | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: and them http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | eeh | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who#MeeGo_developers | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | we do run into those though | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | However, as we all know, there is but one Architect =) | 23:08 |
| VDVsx | "sent by mute from my MeeGo system" :P | 23:09 |
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| th0br0 | Stskeeps: yes, we do, but ... | 23:09 |
| * thiago_home puts the TSG meeting on his N900 calendar | 23:10 | |
| thiago_home | I was away eating pizza | 23:10 |
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| X-Fade | thiago_home: That was actually a better way to spend your time. | 23:10 |
| jeremiah_ | Indedd | 23:10 |
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| X-Fade | thiago_home: Missed nothing this time. | 23:10 |
| jeremiah_ | Or indeed even | 23:10 |
| th0br0 | And most importantly, as we can see now, there are tons and tons of questions the community has... the meeting was just 55min long... ... ... well, we'll see how it works out in the future. | 23:10 |
| jeremiah_ | I am just giong to read the minutes from now on | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | (ok, that was because the ppl weren't asking the questions but, most questions were answered rather shortly anyway) | 23:11 |
| X-Fade | th0br0: Once there are WGs and projects, questions can be redirected. | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | X-Fade: sure. but when will we have them? :S | 23:11 |
| * javispedro ponders how both maemo and moblin came to life. | 23:11 | |
| X-Fade | th0br0: Don't ask me ;) | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | well, there is hardly anything we can do right now except to exercise patience. | 23:11 |
| thiago_home | X-Fade: we did find out that Imad has more devices than the iPhone his 4-year-old kid plays with :-) | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | therefore, i'm going back to reading some more WoT (wheel of time)... so long. | 23:12 |
| lcuk | javispedro, i bet it starts with "twas a dark night in oulu..." | 23:12 |
| jeremiah_ | thiago_home: Did we? What did you find out? | 23:12 |
| thiago_home | jeremiah_: check the minutes | 23:12 |
| thiago_home | under AOB | 23:12 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: and "thou the lord said '<god> let there be light!' and the rants ended" | 23:12 |
| VDVsx | thiago_home, and valhalla has 13 devices :D | 23:13 |
| thiago_home | jeremiah_: that's only after he said "make light" and got error "make: Don't know how to make light. Stop." | 23:13 |
| jeremiah_ | Ah, a Blackberry. :) | 23:13 |
| lcuk | i added a new desk last night and have more space for toys | 23:13 |
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| jeremiah_ | lcuk: W00t | 23:14 |
| lcuk | ive got my big MT monitor and my 810s are even back out :) | 23:14 |
| jeremiah_ | I can't get my 810 away from my wife | 23:14 |
| lcuk | surprisingly the 810 screen is better to write on than the upright | 23:14 |
| * thiago_home has an N800 | 23:14 | |
| thiago_home | and a collegue has an 770 on his desk | 23:14 |
| lcuk | i can just reach out and touch apps | 23:14 |
| jeremiah_ | <@valhalla_> 13 PC:s, Droid, Nexus, 3 N900:s, E71 | 23:15 |
| jeremiah_ | ^^ pretty impressive | 23:15 |
| lcuk | im gonna have em running communal apps | 23:15 |
| jeremiah_ | For a managerial type :) | 23:15 |
| th0br0 | well, the question is whether it's the us or eu nexus version | 23:15 |
| lcuk | i wonder how he knows 13 | 23:15 |
| th0br0 | eeh droid, not nexus | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | jeremiah_: there was a while back last year when high-ups in Nokia had N900s (still branded N00) before we developers could get them... | 23:15 |
| lcuk | its a mental calculation | 23:15 |
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| lcuk | "3 in my office, 2 in the bedroom, one downstairs, 3 more in the library, oh and 1 in the bathroom" | 23:16 |
| jeremiah_ | thiago_home: Really? Cool | 23:16 |
| jeremiah_ | Wonder what they have now | 23:16 |
| thiago_home | at least this time they sent some prototypes to us | 23:16 |
| * thiago_home has a couple of N900++ in his office, so he has to lock the door every time he leaves | 23:17 | |
| th0br0 | N900++? | 23:17 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: he lied. he only counted those he takes with him, but didn't count the 5000 he has downstairs! | 23:17 |
| th0br0 | no, don't answer, i guess that's under nda anyway. | 23:17 |
| thiago_home | I have no clue what the official branding will be | 23:17 |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: Send them to me. I look after them. | 23:17 |
| th0br0 | k | 23:17 |
| jeremiah_ | thiago_home: N900++? | 23:17 |
| thiago_home | and I can't tell you anything about it, besides what is already public | 23:17 |
| jeremiah_ | what be that beast? | 23:17 |
| lcuk | thats possibly >nda by the sounds of it | 23:17 |
| thiago_home | capacitive, multitouch | 23:17 |
| * javispedro grabs the popcorn again | 23:18 | |
| Jaffa | OMAP3430, eMMC, NAND | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 23:18 |
| jeremiah_ | Jari mentioned it was going to have a capacitive screen at the summit | 23:18 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: yeah, we had to get someone to *bring* it from Finland | 23:18 |
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| thiago_home | yeah, I'm just a parrot now | 23:18 |
| thiago_home | I repeat what others have said | 23:18 |
| * Jaffa really struggles to not use his finger nail on the capacitive Joggler. I'm hardwired for it. | 23:18 | |
| lcuk | lol jaffa | 23:18 |
| lcuk | i use the side of my finger - the hard skin next to nail | 23:18 |
| lcuk | works same on n900 as on iphone | 23:19 |
| jeremiah_ | lcuk: Sexy | 23:19 |
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| lcuk | meh | 23:19 |
| VDVsx | thiago_home, :) | 23:19 |
| lcuk | gotta use gammy figner for something | 23:19 |
| jeremiah_ | lol | 23:19 |
| jeremiah_ | I don't want to know how it got gammy | 23:19 |
| javispedro | nokia did it | 23:19 |
| lcuk | he speaks the truth | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | finger friendly | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:20 |
| javispedro | lcuk has the first capacitive screen friendly finger in the world! | 23:20 |
| javispedro | all hail Nokia! | 23:20 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:20 |
| lcuk | http://slashdot.org/journal/229097/Nokia-ovi---finger-friendly | 23:21 |
| * javispedro wonders if they sell that "finger friendlyrizer machine" to us poor resistive screen users | 23:21 | |
| javispedro | s/they/they'd | 23:21 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, that door much be avoided :D | 23:21 |
| * lcuk prefers using the fob | 23:22 | |
| * X-Fade looked at the door and really wondered what lcuk was thinking ;) | 23:22 | |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, i have photos now and explain it properly | 23:22 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, same here :) | 23:22 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk at least you were an instant legend ;) | 23:23 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:23 |
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| javispedro | fact: on Finland, ALWAYS wear gloves | 23:24 |
| lcuk | javispedro, interesting | 23:24 |
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| javispedro | ;P | 23:25 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Let others open the door for you ;) | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade ++ | 23:25 |
| lcuk | do imad and valhalla have twitter accounts? | 23:25 |
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| Stskeeps | is there any way to get things like mesa-libGL-IEGD that was in moblin 2.1 IVI btw? the 'accept' link doesn't work anymore | 23:35 |
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| * TSCHAKeee has yet to SEE an IVI board. :/ | 23:41 | |
| jeremiah_ | TSCHAKeee: Congatech | 23:41 |
| jeremiah_ | they make one | 23:41 |
| jeremiah_ | And IVI just means "In Vehicle Infotainment" so they are not very special boards | 23:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah, i've been trying to get one. :/ | 23:42 |
| jeremiah_ | They sometimes have support for CAN and MOST but other than that they are regular ATOM, or similar | 23:42 |
| jeremiah_ | Well, GENIVI, the automotive IVI consortium is going to have two reference platforms | 23:43 |
| jeremiah_ | And one of them might be the beagle board | 23:43 |
| jeremiah_ | So if you can get ahold of one of those, you're on your way. | 23:43 |
| jeremiah_ | They're actually hard to find all of a sudden | 23:44 |
| ezjd__ | I found tracking mail list and irc is really hard for people like me who need to write code for living most of the day :-( Now forum comes ... | 23:44 |
| jeremiah_ | digikey was out | 23:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah, i was about to get a beagleboard | 23:44 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i just wish they had a built on controller for touch displays | 23:44 |
| jeremiah_ | TSCHAKeee: I think it is a good investment, they're about 150 US $ | 23:44 |
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| * TSCHAKeee also has some Fenglisu FriendlyARM boards (all S3C2440 based) | 23:45 | |
| microlith | I hope the next revision of the beagleboard comes with ethernet integrated | 23:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Me too, but I think it won't to keep the price down. :/ | 23:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | i want moorestown hardware!!! :P :) | 23:45 |
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| microlith | atom bleh :P | 23:46 |
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| TSCHAKeee | oh okay, i guess i'll use a Telechips 8902 based SoC board with its wonderful Mali200 3D accellerator for graphics... | 23:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | ...wait... | 23:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | ...damn... :P | 23:46 |
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