| GeneralAntilles | Not directly, perhaps, but if you get indirect value increase through community efforts. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | Look at Zaurus | 00:00 |
| lbt | http://meego.mkdir.name/logs/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-21-20.02.html http://pastie.org/885472 | 00:00 |
| thiago_home | Termana_n810: maybe, maybe not | 00:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Sharp did everything they could to stifle the community. | 00:00 |
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| lbt | GeneralAntilles: agreed - The despite-Sharp Zaurus | 00:00 |
| gcobb | lbt: I haven't read the log yet, but have read the summaries. One thing... | 00:01 |
| lbt | gcobb: it's very evolutionary... input hugely welcome! | 00:01 |
| gcobb | lbt: we need to make it very clear we are talking about application repositories, nothing to do with the base system. That could cause some confusion | 00:01 |
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| lbt | actually I think there are 2 areas | 00:01 |
| lbt | an 'app store' like place | 00:02 |
| lbt | and | 00:02 |
| lbt | a Universe-like set of coherent, released libraries | 00:02 |
| lbt | app-store = Extras | 00:02 |
| X-Fade | lbt: Agreed. | 00:02 |
| lbt | and each app has a private QA timeline/release schedule | 00:02 |
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| lbt | I'd like the other place to aim to co-release with Meego releases and maybe +1 if we need to | 00:03 |
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| gcobb | lbt: so you see a separation between the apps and the libs? Formal/enforced (when is an app an app?, what about CLI apps? what about daemons? etc.)? | 00:03 |
| lbt | but probably to also support older Meego releases in case Nokia et al don't release device updates | 00:03 |
| gcobb | or just with different intents and let the developers decide where it belongs? | 00:04 |
| lbt | gcobb: yes.... dunno :) | 00:04 |
| lbt | yes | 00:04 |
| lbt | some things are clearly standalone | 00:04 |
| X-Fade | gcobb: Maybe a rule if there is more than one dependent on the lib, then ... | 00:04 |
| lbt | others can be considered 'assistants' | 00:04 |
| lbt | indeed | 00:04 |
| lbt | I also think that 'just ported' will tend to go in the coherent-whole part | 00:05 |
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| arjan | lets put it this way.. an app is not an app is some other package logically depends on it ;) | 00:06 |
| gcobb | Not necessarily disagreeing, but why? What is the goal? | 00:06 |
| lbt | allows a clearer policy... | 00:07 |
| lbt | ie "Can I have a new library" .... "No" | 00:07 |
| gcobb | arjan: no, that doesn't work. I see many cases of cross-dependencies between apps | 00:07 |
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| lbt | allows us to do pre-release QA too | 00:07 |
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| arjan | gcobb: but at that point you're no longer really "just an app", you're creating OS infrastructure | 00:08 |
| lbt | arjan: apps that others depend upon have a greater responsibility | 00:08 |
| arjan | yep | 00:08 |
| arjan | you get API/ABI issues, etc etc | 00:08 |
| lbt | and may volunteer to be part of a more managed and constrained area | 00:08 |
| arjan | and also then you don't want things to duplicate too much | 00:08 |
| arjan | etc | 00:08 |
| lbt | ie the community :Universe or whatever | 00:09 |
| gcobb | arjan: imagine I create an app which synchronises GPE Calendar with Exchange. That doesn't make GPE Calendar not an app any more | 00:09 |
| * lbt thought Meego:Albumen | 00:09 | |
| th0br0 | alrighty, i'm out. bye everyone, ttyl | 00:09 |
| lbt | bye th0br0 | 00:09 |
| slaine | th0br0: laters | 00:09 |
| mpathy | hi there.. what about SyncML on MeeGo? Anybody knows | 00:09 |
| lbt | th0br0: don't forget your action | 00:09 |
| arjan | gcobb: but if there already is centralized calendar management | 00:09 |
| arjan | mpathy: we have that | 00:10 |
| arjan | gcobb: then that woudl duplicate core OS functionality... | 00:10 |
| arjan | gcobb: which generally is not very desirable, you duplicate calendars. | 00:10 |
| arjan | I don't want my phone or laptop to have two disjoint calendars | 00:10 |
| lbt | arjan: OTOH if you have GPE on other devices... | 00:10 |
| gcobb | arjan: I don't think that is relevant but if you do, take a more abstract example: App B dpends/uses/manipulates the data of App A | 00:10 |
| lbt | I don't want 2 apps thanks :) | 00:10 |
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| lbt | but indeed, it's an example | 00:11 |
| X-Fade | lbt: no multitasking allowed ;) | 00:11 |
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| arjan | gcobb: that gets really tricky around compatibility, non-duplication etc etc. | 00:11 |
| mpathy | arjan, where? I only hear about ActiveSync.. it is included from start? | 00:11 |
| arjan | mpathy: syncevolution or whatever it's called | 00:11 |
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| gcobb | arjan: tricky, yes. Important, also yes | 00:11 |
| lbt | arjan: indeed - being tricky is why we need policy and design | 00:11 |
| arjan | (which is a bit misnamed and is not evolution specific) | 00:12 |
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| arjan | lbt: which is the point where, if data of App A is important, you pull it into the core | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | lbt: writing up a detailed proposal? | 00:12 |
| lbt | th0br0: :) | 00:12 |
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| lbt | arjan: agreed - one of the objectives of the RWG is "gateway to the core" | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | lbt: ok :) hope to have that done by sunday. | 00:13 |
| X-Fade | arjan: Then you will end up with either a big core or not much freedom for app developers? | 00:13 |
| slaine | battery about to drain | 00:13 |
| lbt | and moving from :App to :Surrounds would be a step towards that | 00:13 |
| mpathy | arjan, the website says "it supports synchronizing the system address book" which is only a little part of the sync tasks what it should do? | 00:13 |
| gcobb | arjan: sorry, it just isn't as cleanly separated as you are suggesting. If I don't own App A, but I want to add value to it, I can't rewrite A to create a core service | 00:13 |
| arjan | X-Fade: it's a fine line. | 00:13 |
| slaine | laters | 00:14 |
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| lbt | I think Meego has a hidden/understated agenda/mission around minimalism in this area | 00:14 |
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| lbt | it's not very linuxy as we know linux today... but it has some + points | 00:14 |
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| X-Fade | I wonder if that puts us further away from traditional distros though. | 00:15 |
| lbt | I wonder if we need to be more obvious about "hacker" versions which are more chaotic | 00:15 |
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| lbt | and consumer versions... which only use the core data svcs | 00:15 |
| lbt | X-Fade: it does | 00:15 |
| th0br0 | byez | 00:15 |
| gcobb | I don't object to the split, as long as the rules are flexible enough | 00:15 |
| lbt | gcobb: GPE isn't a bad example there | 00:16 |
| lbt | I love it :) | 00:16 |
| lbt | but I don't see it in Meego core | 00:16 |
| lbt | whereas Hermes... I do see being more aligned with the core | 00:17 |
| lbt | (as an example) | 00:17 |
| gcobb | It's both a good and bad example: it has a reasonable split but it is hard to fit into someone else's environment | 00:17 |
| arjan | X-Fade: I don't think meego is "just another" regular distro | 00:18 |
| arjan | I sure hope not | 00:18 |
| lbt | anyhow - I think the point is that the RWG is the place to manage and decide precisely these issues | 00:18 |
| gcobb | We need to make sure the "Apps" area also includes things like themes | 00:18 |
| arjan | there's many of those already ;) | 00:18 |
| X-Fade | Another question is end-users are supposed to run unmodified meego images. Where the core has all needed functionality. | 00:18 |
| mpathy | arjan, what about the stuff from OpenSync - http://opensync.org/ - or this from Funambol -> https://www.forge.funambol.org/download/#phone | 00:18 |
| arjan | X-Fade: I'd love the unmodified image to be good enough for that | 00:18 |
| arjan | mpathy: I didn't think funambol is quite open source | 00:18 |
| X-Fade | arjan: I think that is a bit unrealistic though. | 00:18 |
| arjan | nto entirely at least | 00:18 |
| arjan | X-Fade: sure btu that doesn't make it a worthwhile goal :) | 00:19 |
| gcobb | mpathy: opensync is currently still broken | 00:19 |
| lbt | X-Fade: this is an area that I'm waiting to see the code for | 00:19 |
| X-Fade | arjan: Didn't say that ;) | 00:19 |
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| lbt | tonights TSG didn't help that at all :( | 00:19 |
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| lbt | (we were hoping it would clarify things) | 00:19 |
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| mpathy | arjan, thats not true.. https://www.forge.funambol.org/learn/licensing.html just be open then its okay | 00:20 |
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| mpathy | arjan, only restriction is the including of the funambol logo | 00:21 |
| X-Fade | Anyway, plenty of things to discuss and find out. | 00:21 |
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| lbt | *nod* | 00:21 |
| X-Fade | Time to end this 14 hour work day. | 00:21 |
| X-Fade | Later. | 00:22 |
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| thiago_home | same here | 00:22 |
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| CosmoHill | bye lbt | 00:25 |
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| Termana_n810 | geek iron | 01:01 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 02:12 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder if i should be worried my mailbox contains no fallout of yesterday's meeting, at all | 07:52 |
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| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, well it's growing up into a real distro, what is there to be upset about? :-) | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: at least there's weekly meetings | 08:03 |
| ShadowJK | at the start was it | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | then at cruising altitude the TSG won't be needed often : | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | P | 08:04 |
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| Stskeeps | morning III | 08:05 |
| III | morning... | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | (and what are you doing up in the morning in my timezone?) ;) | 08:05 |
| ShadowJK | IRC as meeting medium is.. no less timekilling than others.. | 08:05 |
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| Stskeeps | scary | 08:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:07 |
| III | your telling me... I just killed my system | 08:07 |
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| * III is no mysql and php expert :p | 08:08 | |
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| Stskeeps | morning dneary | 10:41 |
| dneary | Hi Stskeeps | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | so any impressions after yesterday's meeting? | 10:42 |
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| Stskeeps | i haven't really processed it yet personally :) | 10:42 |
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| slaine | morning all | 11:30 |
| zaheerm | i like the 6 monthly releases | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 11:31 |
| zaheerm | morning | 11:31 |
| zaheerm | although it is a quick release at beginning from may to september | 11:32 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: is there an offical log ? | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | yes, look at #meego-meeting topic | 11:32 |
| slaine | ta | 11:32 |
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| zaheerm | http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/ | 11:32 |
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| slaine | can catch up on everything I missed. | 11:33 |
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| jeremiah_ | Are there minutes from last night's MeeGo TSG meeting? | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | yes, #meego-meeting has them in topic | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.html | 12:26 |
| jeremiah_ | Thanks | 12:26 |
| jeremiah_ | Thanks keepsie | 12:26 |
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| Stskeeps | was close to utter chaos but at least things ran through.. | 12:27 |
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| jeremiah_ | Okay. | 12:27 |
| jeremiah_ | Did you think it was worthwhile to be there? | 12:28 |
| jeremiah_ | I mean, did you get the info you needed? | 12:28 |
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| Stskeeps | there will be another one already in a week and before that, all the architecture stuff will be published | 12:28 |
| jeremiah_ | So next Wednesday? | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | i think even though it was a bit hectic, it was important to get it started | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | right | 12:28 |
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| jeremiah_ | Yeah. I am pleased at the turnout from Nokia and Intel | 12:29 |
| jeremiah_ | I hope they don't drop off - I think it is important that the community at least have access to these folks | 12:30 |
| jeremiah_ | Especially since they are making a lot of decisions without a lot of community imput. | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | ideally TSG will be the last people we deal directly with, with most responsibilities and roles divided out. | 12:30 |
| jeremiah_ | s/imput/input | 12:30 |
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| Stskeeps | except in conflict situations | 12:30 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah, exactly. | 12:31 |
| lcuk | meego battle arena! | 12:31 |
| jeremiah_ | But that they show up in meetings once awhile would be great | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | they should, part of governance | 12:31 |
| jeremiah_ | At least people like Quim and some others | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | weekly meetings at first is better than what was promised, every second week | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | quim sits here every single day | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | and dawnfoster as well | 12:32 |
| jeremiah_ | He was not that active in #maemo | 12:32 |
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| Stskeeps | new situation now though | 12:32 |
| jeremiah_ | But I wonder how long it will last | 12:32 |
| jeremiah_ | That is my point | 12:32 |
| jeremiah_ | That they have to stay around | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | and meego isn't currently that hostile an environment as we're not customers | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:32 |
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| jeremiah_ | There are customers out there though. And they're 'hostile' :P | 12:33 |
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| jeremiah_ | Stskeeps: What does Mer do now? | 12:34 |
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| Stskeeps | mer^2 is backport for n810 which i'm still working on and for the rest, i encourage contributing to meego | 12:35 |
| jeremiah_ | Okay | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | i see no conflict in goals, even if some seem to think we were 100% open source or nothing :P | 12:36 |
| jeremiah_ | qgil: O/ | 12:36 |
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| jeremiah_ | Well, yeah. There is no conflict. But then MeeGo is not meant to run on the N8*0 right? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | dunno, i haven't seen the code yet | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | technically if it is armv6+vfp compatible in the base system it could run a non-GL desktop | 12:39 |
| jeremiah_ | oh cool | 12:39 |
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| Stskeeps | and if the entire core system is open source, nothing stops anyone from rebuilding it to armv6/armv5 | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: btw, noone posted the TSG meeting minutes to the mailing list yet | 12:40 |
| jeremiah_ | But that means backporting ARM kernel changes right? | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | we already have 2.6.33 on n810 | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:40 |
| jeremiah_ | awesome | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah_: Omap2 is pretty well supported in these kernels | 12:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Cool | 12:41 |
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| X-Fade | Question of course if if there is still interest ;) | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | i still like my n810 for some purposes | 12:43 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah, me too. It is a great little machine. | 12:43 |
| jeremiah_ | I am thinking about buying another! | 12:43 |
| jeremiah_ | I think I like the N810 format better - I like the slightly bigger screen | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind a pluggable screen on the n900 | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | as in, able to detach and reattach different displays | 12:44 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah - I think that would be huge. | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | New phones seem to have hdmi ;) | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | as long as they still support s-video.. | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | / composite | 12:45 |
| X-Fade | Nah, hdmi is a better ;) | 12:45 |
| X-Fade | No analog crap. | 12:45 |
| jeremiah_ | That would be pretty amazing. | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | probably, but i don't have a flatscreen tv yet | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:45 |
| jeremiah_ | luddite! | 12:46 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Tsss those are less expensive than a phone :) | 12:46 |
| jeremiah_ | heh | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | i was about to buy one when my media center had insane flickering on the screen, we moved it to another electricity plug - as clean as the n900 output | 12:46 |
| jeremiah_ | Well MeeGO will probably run on one without the phone hookup anyway | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | after day one i kinda want to put meego on my joggler | 12:47 |
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| * jeremiah_ googles joggler | 12:47 | |
| Stskeeps | even though i'll probably be in a world of pain cos of the gma500 | 12:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Stskeeps: Do you already have a joggler device? | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah_: was sold for 99 pound in US recently, it's a atom 1.6ghz, 512mb ram with ethernet, usb host and 7" capactivie touchscreen | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | err, in UK | 12:48 |
| jeremiah_ | Whoa | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | and it is hackable to run any linux | 12:48 |
| jeremiah_ | Cool | 12:48 |
| jeremiah_ | ! | 12:48 |
| * jeremiah_ drools | 12:48 | |
| burchr | lol | 12:48 |
| burchr | now you've given him gadgetgasms | 12:48 |
| jeremiah_ | heh | 12:48 |
| jeremiah_ | I'm always behind the curve when it comes to gadgets | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | Well that sounds like a good deal. | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | only sold in UK though :P | 12:49 |
| jeremiah_ | Can't possibly be Nokia quality though | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | it is quite solid | 12:49 |
| burchr | I'll be willing to ship out jogglers for only a mere 200% markup fee | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/v/m1ZV7aD2Wak | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | it is AC only, though | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | no battery | 12:50 |
| jeremiah_ | That's weird | 12:51 |
| * jeremiah_ stops drooling | 12:51 | |
| Stskeeps | not really, considering the usage | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | It is basically a digital photoframe. | 12:51 |
| slaine | Wow, people actually bought Jogglers ? | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: yeah, i hack it for fun | 12:51 |
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| vesa_ | hmpf, why did noone tell me before the n900 uses the same battery as the 5800! | 12:52 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: cool, I've got one of the prototypes here in a box | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: the fact you can boot it with a usb stick is quite neat :P | 12:52 |
| slaine | I don't think i ever actually booted it (blush) | 12:53 |
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| slaine | was given it by Intel as a research platform for our software, but it had the GMA500 on there, so I didn't pursue it | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | why isn't IEGD good enough btw? | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | we had those working | 12:54 |
| slaine | Xorg 1.7 support required | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 12:56 |
| slaine | IEGD only goes to 1.6 | 12:56 |
| slaine | Ideally our packages would just install on any distro release | 12:56 |
| slaine | but we're not there yet | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | at least with nokia's sgx fbdev that part is update-able | 12:58 |
| slaine | GMA500 has been a major black eye for Intel's OpenSource teams. The elephant in the room | 12:59 |
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| Stskeeps | can imagine | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | gma500 support for meego wih xserver 1.7 would be a nice thing | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:09 |
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| slaine | It sure would | 13:15 |
| slaine | that's unless MeeGo 1.0 ends up with Xorg 1.8 ;) | 13:16 |
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| qgil | so yesterday the TSG told me that I had an official MeeGo role at the Community working group and today my managers tell me that I work at MeeGo devices | 14:12 |
| qgil | changes... | 14:12 |
| qgil | yet I keep doing the same work more or elss :) | 14:12 |
| qgil | less | 14:12 |
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| X-Fade | As long as they don't pay you less :) | 14:12 |
| zaheerm | yep, ask for a raise! | 14:13 |
| burchr | qgil: so does Maemo devices still exist? or is it all being renamed | 14:13 |
| * RST38h moos | 14:14 | |
| qgil | burchr: anybody working yesterday in the Maemo Devices team at Nokia works now in the MeeGo Devices team at Nokia | 14:15 |
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| * burchr nods | 14:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | qgil: hrm, if i wasn't sick or was more awake i'd have at least heard that news | 14:15 |
| qgil | burchr: and that includes the team working on the Maemo 5 PR releases (before anybody panics) :) | 14:15 |
| burchr | oh I'm not panicing, that's exactly what I expected | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | qgil: or PE after PR :) | 14:16 |
| burchr | just clarifying | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | so when can we expect new swag and tshirts? ;) | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: someone would need a logo first ;-) | 14:16 |
| burchr | Stskeeps: I expect someone to send a mankini to you instead | 14:16 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: now you're asking me as Community WG guy - good question :) | 14:16 |
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| qgil | timeless_mbp: we have a MeeGo logo (thank G**) | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | we do? | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | gah, get sick, and i miss the world | 14:17 |
| * burchr pats timeless_mbp | 14:17 | |
| qgil | er... are you abusing lynx browser perhaps timeless_mbp ? | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | the grey and purple logo on meego.com? | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | that's like calling NOKIA in blue a logo | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it's just ugly | 14:18 |
| qgil | do I need to explain what is a logo and how to recognize it? | 14:18 |
| Fatal | logo != artwork with cuddly animals | 14:18 |
| Fatal | timeless_mbp: it is | 14:19 |
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| * timeless_mbp wonders if Fatal happens to be near stockholm | 14:20 | |
| qgil | in a planetary scale, probably yes | 14:20 |
| Fatal | varberg, south of gothenburg, small city, so close, but not close if you're swedish | 14:21 |
| Fatal | timeless_mbp: technically I guess it's a "wordmark", but that's a subset of the term logotype | 14:22 |
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| qgil | Fatal: we have animals at MeeGo too | 14:23 |
| timeless_mbp | qgil: wild ones, sure | 14:23 |
| timeless_mbp | probably even bears and bulls | 14:24 |
| slaine | Lions and Tigers, oh my | 14:24 |
| qgil | timeless_mbp: I have seen some humans and a blue fox so far | 14:24 |
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| * timeless_mbp hasn't seen any blue foxes | 14:24 | |
| Fatal | (disclaimer: depending on who you are ofcourse) I doubt those animals falls under the cute and cuddly category though | 14:24 |
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| qgil | timeless_mbp: waiting still for a re-appearance of the Moblin cat | 14:24 |
| slaine | The MeeGo fox ate him | 14:25 |
| qgil | these post-OH guys never surrend ;) | 14:25 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 14:25 |
| qgil | Fatal: I didn't say cuddly, if you notice :) | 14:26 |
| qgil | there is also a related "cute" logo P but now I'm deviating too much | 14:26 |
| Fatal | :D | 14:26 |
| qgil | wasn't there a blue penguin as well? | 14:27 |
| slaine | nedrichards is busy drawing all sorts of new animals while on his honeymoon I'm sure | 14:28 |
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| jeremiah_ | I like the little fox guy, I have to admit. | 14:32 |
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| jeremiah_ | The penguin is here: http://meego.com/developers | 14:33 |
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| jeremiah_ | Does the guy with the eyepatch mean that MeeGo endorses piracy? | 14:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | jeremiah_: he's supposed to be endorsing accessibility | 14:37 |
| timeless_mbp | but you're right, he's a pirate! | 14:37 |
| timeless_mbp | (actually, i suspect he's got a headsup display with really bad styling, it must be nokia gear!) | 14:38 |
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| jeremiah_ | timeless_mbp: :-) | 15:01 |
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| slaine | lbt, the RWG proposal seems to have evolved since we had the meeting | 16:04 |
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| slaine | wouldn't it have been better to organize a follow up meeting ? | 16:04 |
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| slaine | What's there looks reasonable though | 16:06 |
| lbt | slaine: one kinda happened after the TSG last night ... plus I think what I did was take the scope agreed in the meeting and re-presented it | 16:06 |
| lbt | I hope I didn't mis-represent anything... | 16:06 |
| lbt | and that's one reason I sent it to -dev for discussion :) | 16:07 |
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| slaine | was a little put out at first when it looked like so much had changed. But once reading it I can see that yes, you simple fleshed out what was discussed and agreed | 16:09 |
| lbt | good :) | 16:10 |
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| lbt | after hearing the TSG meeting I felt it would be worth being more clearly community oriented (ie not "define strategy") | 16:12 |
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| slaine | nod | 16:12 |
| slaine | I should probably join the community list too | 16:13 |
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| lbt | I filter all meego and moblin into one folder... | 16:13 |
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| slaine | I've moblin-dev and meego-dev in one MeeGo folder | 16:14 |
| slaine | thanks maildrop | 16:14 |
| lbt | seive :) | 16:14 |
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| slaine | I share a server with a bunch of my friends | 16:16 |
| slaine | one of them is a sysadmin by trade and set it up as they do at his hosting company | 16:16 |
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| slaine | was pretty handy for me :) | 16:16 |
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| CosmoHill | damn | 16:22 |
| CosmoHill | php doesn't have jpeg support | 16:22 |
| CosmoHill | now i need to recompile | 16:22 |
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| orbarron | GM Stskeeps | 17:11 |
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| Stskeeps | morning orbarron | 17:12 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | hello | 17:54 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | Does anyone here know if the MeeGo release which is announced for the end of the month will support telephony on N900 ? | 17:56 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 17:58 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | hi | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo[FR]: no idea, but the intended phone stack is ofono and ofono isimodem support isn't complete yet | 17:58 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | :) | 17:58 |
| CosmoHill | iirc the meego repo is released on the end of the money | 17:58 |
| CosmoHill | month* | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo[FR]: don't expect too much of it, people say | 17:59 |
| CosmoHill | but meego 1.0 will not be released until may | 17:59 |
| CosmoHill | it should work on the n900 with 3omap | 17:59 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | the phone stak will be Ofono one ??? and why not Telepathy one, which is supported in N900/Maemo5 and functionnal ? | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | telepathy isn't a phone stac | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:59 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes i know | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | and nokia's stuff is closed source | 18:00 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | but it have a telephony stack called 'telepathy-ring' | 18:00 |
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| Stskeeps | TheBootroo[FR]: that's a plugin for the nokia stack | 18:00 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | ok | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | TheBootroo[FR]: it isn't meant to be a replacement for maemo5 at end of month | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | that'd be unrealistic :) | 18:01 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | i'm developper so i know that ;-) | 18:01 |
| ShadowJK | end of month is "it boots", then it's time to figure out how to make it display stuff on screen ;) | 18:01 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | do we have an idea of the appearance of MeeGo's Handheld UX ? | 18:01 |
| lcuk | will there be an x86 install? | 18:02 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:02 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | normally | 18:02 |
| * ShadowJK 'd be surprised if there was an installer ;D | 18:02 | |
| lcuk | and i dont mean an image for an emulator | 18:02 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | both ARM OMAP 3 and X86 Atom ones ;-) | 18:02 |
| lcuk | i mean to sit on a laptop nearby | 18:02 |
| ShadowJK | well put hte image on a disc.. | 18:02 |
| CosmoHill | TheBootroo[FR]: i think they are using the moblin UX for meego 1.0 | 18:02 |
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| lcuk | but they wont run the same code initially | 18:02 |
| CosmoHill | in meego 1.1 they will work on the UX | 18:02 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | but Moblin UX is actually using GTK+ and clutter no ? and meego will use Qt4 ? | 18:03 |
| CosmoHill | this is correct | 18:03 |
| lcuk | if the meego stack is qt | 18:03 |
| CosmoHill | meego 1.0 is about the core of the distro, i.e. everything under the UX | 18:03 |
| lcuk | then can i install meego ontop of windows | 18:03 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | so nokia's work in ex-Harmattan could be MeeGo Handheld UX no ? | 18:04 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | @lcuk: lol | 18:04 |
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| Stskeeps | TheBootroo[FR]: no architecture info out yet, so | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | wait a week or so | 18:04 |
| lcuk | TheBootroo[FR], i am 100% serious | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:04 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | @lcuk: windows haven't all necessaries librairies | 18:04 |
| lcuk | it has qt | 18:04 |
| lcuk | and that is meego isnt it? | 18:05 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | meego's kernel ? dbus ? telepathy ? rpm ? nothing like that in Win**** | 18:05 |
| lcuk | all the apps are qt apps | 18:05 |
| lcuk | qt is cross platform | 18:05 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes but some things are to be Qt/X11 specific | 18:06 |
| lcuk | what, so qt is not cross platofmr compatible? | 18:06 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | particulary desktop UI | 18:06 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | not all | 18:06 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | for example low-level windows management differs in Linux/X11 , OS X and Win32 | 18:07 |
| lcuk | so if i have currently a qt app | 18:07 |
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| lcuk | it will or wont work in meego | 18:07 |
| lcuk | based on the direction of the wind? | 18:07 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | normally it will | 18:07 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | but MeeGo UX itself will surely not | 18:07 |
| lcuk | window management isnt important to apps written on qt tho | 18:07 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | on windows | 18:07 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:07 |
| lcuk | because those apps use qt interfaces | 18:08 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | but what i mean | 18:08 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | is that Meego's UX will NOT run on windows | 18:08 |
| lcuk | because the UX is not qt? | 18:08 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes it is but it uses X11 specific stuff too | 18:08 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: he means things like the compositor and such | 18:08 |
| w00t_ | methinks | 18:09 |
| lcuk | meeto | 18:09 |
| lcuk | but im just trying to see at what level this sillyness extends | 18:09 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | not even compositing | 18:09 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | which could be handled by Qt | 18:09 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | no | 18:09 |
| lcuk | qt sits ontop of x11, or windows whatever its called, or mac winmanager already | 18:10 |
| lcuk | why would it suddenly stop doing so | 18:10 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | i'm talking about window showing and management like taskbar, switcher.... | 18:10 |
| lcuk | those arent qt components too? | 18:10 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes but they are differents on three OSes | 18:10 |
| w00t_ | there isn't any current cross platform code for that, no | 18:10 |
| Anss| | qt lighthouse? | 18:10 |
| lcuk | yes - so someone has already done all that work | 18:10 |
| damien_l | it's not about being Qt or not... but about stuff *really* specific to the plaform like an X compositor | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | ok, but if i have a qwidget | 18:11 |
| lcuk | inside my app | 18:11 |
| lcuk | that currently runs anywhere | 18:11 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:11 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | hopefully | 18:11 |
| lcuk | for different values of anywhere i know | 18:11 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | it's cross plateform without any problem | 18:11 |
| lcuk | arent the apps themselves just qt apps | 18:11 |
| lcuk | without the special x11 tricks you discuss for 1 or 2 window managery things | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | but not the Desktop | 18:12 |
| lcuk | so - most of meego apps will just work | 18:12 |
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| lcuk | on windows | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | the windows-manager/desktop/launcher is just specific | 18:12 |
| lcuk | i dont need that one | 18:12 |
| lcuk | i mean the apps | 18:12 |
| lcuk | that make up meego | 18:12 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | but the rest could be portable | 18:12 |
| lcuk | cool :) | 18:13 |
| damien_l | the shell for MeeGo 1.0 Netbook is not done with Qt, the 3rd party developer API is Qt (but I guess every developer is free to choose to depend on anything that is in the distro) | 18:13 |
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| TheBootroo[FR] | @damien_l: even netbook UX must be rewritten in Qt in future, at least I hope | 18:14 |
| damien_l | TheBootroo[FR]: why *must*? | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | cause qt is far much powerful than gtk+/clutter actually used | 18:15 |
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| CosmoHill | god | 18:15 |
| CosmoHill | why do people use dream weaver | 18:15 |
| damien_l | TheBootroo[FR]: is it? | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | sooo far | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | ;-) | 18:15 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | i've used Gtk+ before knowing Qt and there is no possible comparaison | 18:16 |
| robsta | TheBootroo[FR]: what qt do you mean? qwidget, dui, qml, graphics-view or orbit? | 18:16 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | all of Qt | 18:16 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | is one of powers of Qt : everything available in base | 18:17 |
| w00t_ | I suspect this discussion is about to get religious | 18:17 |
| damien_l | oh really? | 18:17 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | for Gtk you must add Cairo for vector, pango for text, clutter for animations .... | 18:17 |
| bpeel | just because they call loads of separate parts by one name doesn't make it any more useful | 18:17 |
| * timeless_mbp notes that in theory, DUI was supposed to run on OS X and Windows too | 18:18 | |
| bpeel | you could just say "Gnome has everything in base" | 18:18 |
| * leinir suspects w00t_ may be right ;) | 18:18 | |
| * timeless_mbp saw a video of it, so it must be true! | 18:18 | |
| TheBootroo[FR] | so all is perfectlly integrated | 18:18 |
| robsta | TheBootroo[FR]: so why does Nokia not have anything to show for QT, after acquiring it 2 years ago? | 18:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | w00t_: how dare you suspect the spanish inquisition! | 18:19 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | don't worry about religion or inquisition lool | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | robsta: they changed the license, surely that's a lot to show for two years! | 18:19 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | :D | 18:19 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it took symbian two years to change their license! :) | 18:19 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | there are : QML, Qt Creator, Qt Mobility, Qt Animation, Qt State MAchine .... | 18:20 |
| timeless_mbp | (and that was from closed to "i can't figure it out, but it must be open") | 18:20 |
| timeless_mbp | TheBootroo[FR]: i don't think Nokia created any of those | 18:20 |
| trip0 | there's a lot that has happened in Qt the past 2 years | 18:20 |
| robsta | TheBootroo[FR]: and there is meego 1.0 which is the 3rd installation of a clutter base user interface | 18:20 |
| robsta | meego 1.0 for netbook i mean | 18:20 |
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| trip0 | timeless, they came into existence under nokia's ownership | 18:20 |
| timeless_mbp | trip0: were they not projects beforehand? | 18:21 |
| trip0 | no | 18:21 |
| leinir | timeless_mbp: Bah, you wouldn't want to point out the S60 support, or even Harmattan... ;) | 18:21 |
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| trip0 | qt animation was, but it was really limited | 18:21 |
| robsta | TheBootroo[FR]: so what do you prefer? good in theory or out there, tried and tested | 18:21 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | not all | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, Qt Creator is a replacement for Qt Designer? | 18:21 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what was wrong w/ designer | 18:21 | |
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| trip0 | designer isn't a full IDE | 18:22 |
| trip0 | creator is | 18:22 |
| leinir | timeless_mbp: Creator's an IDE, Designer's only for designing UI files :) | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | (other than the fact that i crashed it when i looked at it the wrong way) | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | and i love it | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | i use it everyday and it's a real pleasure at each update ;-) | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and it sucks every other day? :) | 18:22 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | non | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | that's what your sentence implied :) | 18:23 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | lol | 18:23 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | excuse me i'm french and my english is imperfect ... | 18:23 |
| timeless_mbp | learn a lesson from your mistakes, that's all i ask :) | 18:23 |
| damien_l | if only | 18:23 |
| trip0 | only if | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | laughing is fine, but learning is important | 18:24 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes i know mum | 18:24 |
| trip0 | i didn't interpret Bootroo's sentence that way | 18:24 |
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| trip0 | i got that he uses it daily and when he updates, it's a pleasure | 18:24 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, and the rest of the time, it isn't! | 18:25 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | that's what i wanted to say | 18:25 |
| trip0 | timeless, no such implication | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but a valid conclusion | 18:25 |
| trip0 | from my interpretation | 18:25 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | no : it's good all day but yet more at updates | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | TheBootroo[FR]: it's better to say explicitly that you enjoy using it every day | 18:26 |
| trip0 | if one doesn't specify something as "good" explicitly, that doesn't conversly mean the opposite | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | you can indicate in a distinct sentence that you look forward to updates | 18:26 |
| alden | did this channels user count suddenly shoot up after yesterdays meeting? | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | nop, about same | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | alden: hrm, are you the guy who did the election writeup? | 18:26 |
| alden | timeless: no? | 18:26 |
| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: designer lives on inside creator, I believe the UI design component *is* just designer so | 18:26 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to pin a nick to a blog and fails miserably | 18:26 | |
| trip0 | i look forward to updates, but that doesn't mean i'm not happy with the current version | 18:26 |
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| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: fwiw, it's stabilised a lot from a few years ago, if you used it then | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t_: i filed a bug on designer while working at nokia | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i've been here 4 years | 18:27 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | trip0: +100000 | 18:27 |
| trip0 | i guess it depends on what you perceive updates to be | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | so it had to be w/in that period | 18:27 |
| alden | timeless_mbp: election writeup? | 18:27 |
| * w00t_ has been running the same instance of creator master for over a week now | 18:27 | |
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| timeless_mbp | alden: if it wasn't you, it isn't relevant | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t_: sadly i've found qt bug handling to be incredibly useless | 18:28 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | trip0 : i'm using 1.3.81 revisions so in fact 2.0 beta version and it's all good ! (Mc Cain inside lol) | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | no useful feedback about bug reports | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and they seem to keep changing bug databases and urls | 18:28 |
| trip0 | haha | 18:28 |
| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: iirc they never had an external db until the current one, so I don't imagine that will change | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | trip0: seriously, i filed a bug report | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to know its status | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | is that so unreasonable? | 18:29 |
| w00t_ | from what I know from talking to them, they previously worked on some horrible email system | 18:29 |
| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: there is also #qt-labs, where you can hassle people directly now, which didn't exist until (relatively) recently | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t_: i don't really have time to go hassling people | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | and i don't like to be seen as hassling people | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | besides, i could just cheat | 18:30 |
| * timeless_mbp hates cheating | 18:30 | |
| * TheBootroo[FR] too | 18:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | if i'm going to hassle someone, i'll call them :) | 18:30 |
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| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: yet you have time to talk about not having time to hassle people? *grin* | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa | 18:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | w00t_: sure, i'm @home sick | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i have another half day | 18:31 |
| w00t_ | I jnest | 18:31 |
| w00t_ | s/n// | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | is one of i don't know how many bug trackers qt has | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | (it's the wrong one) | 18:31 |
| w00t_ | urm, why? | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | why which? | 18:31 |
| w00t_ | as far as I'm aware that's the right one | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | because my bug is from the old one | 18:31 |
| TheBootroo[FR] | yes it its | 18:31 |
| w00t_ | right | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | and is a report on qt designer | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't something i can find there | 18:32 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i filed a bug about designer, you claim it's the right database | 18:32 |
| w00t_ | they switched trackers a year or two ago from some stupid internal system which operated via mail, as I explained | 18:32 |
| timeless_mbp | find it! :) | 18:32 |
| w00t_ | the old one was never public | 18:32 |
| w00t_ | so I couldn't, even if I wanted to | 18:32 |
| w00t_ | I'd still chalk this up to progress that has been made really, they now *have* a tracker that people can see what is going on with, as opposed to .. what was it, reports@trolltech.com? or some other stupid email alias | 18:33 |
| timeless_mbp | Bugs should be reported to mailto:qt-bugs@trolltech.com. But please read (the very short) http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/bughowto.html page first. | 18:34 |
| w00t_ | right | 18:34 |
| timeless_mbp | was the really old version | 18:34 |
| timeless_mbp | but i filed it w/ a gui | 18:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm pretty sure it wasn't the newer jira | 18:34 |
| w00t_ | it wasn't | 18:34 |
| w00t_ | it was just a pretty front end that sent a mail to that address, iirc | 18:34 |
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| CosmoHill | yay | 18:39 |
| CosmoHill | you can now upload images to the website via php and it will resize them for you :D | 18:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | w00t_: http://qt.nokia.com/developer/task-tracker/index_html?id=213481&method=entry | 18:42 |
| w00t_ | intriguing | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | so yes, the database still exists | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | but finding it is... well | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | note that the dates are misleading | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | my mailbox shows a message from them asking for more info on the 23rd | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | so it isn't like they had 1 day turnaround for a trivial bug | 18:44 |
| w00t_ | yeah, I do remember that system, and it sucked | 18:45 |
| w00t_ | they're still not perfect now with jira (some stuff takes way too long to be triaged) but I suspect that is a manpower problem | 18:45 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 18:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | i'm uncertain that jira is actually better | 18:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i've had more time to grow to hate jira :) | 18:46 |
| timeless_mbp | task tracker is useless, but at least it's plain and simple, not ugly and convoluted :) | 18:46 |
| w00t_ | I'm not so much referring to the tool as the change in process | 18:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure there is much change in process | 18:47 |
| w00t_ | with the older trackers, you rarely got feedback on what was going on inside the belly of the beast | 18:47 |
| w00t_ | nowdays, there's more of a visible paper trail | 18:47 |
| timeless_mbp | well, w/ task tracker they sent me an email they didn't need to asking for information they didn't need | 18:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i replied w/ a flippant reply | 18:48 |
| timeless_mbp | they replied saying thanks for my help | 18:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and essentially the next day they had fixed it | 18:48 |
| timeless_mbp | _somewhere_, but i never got a notice about that! | 18:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i crashed Qt Designer during a Qt training course :) | 18:51 |
| timeless_mbp | it wasn't exactly the most impressive of introductions | 18:51 |
| timeless_mbp | "oh, here's a tool that'll eat my work" | 18:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | note: other people may view my comments as being reasonable instead of flippant, and i appreciate such judgments :) | 18:53 |
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| trip0 | timeless_mbp, i crashed DOS 2.3 a lot too | 18:56 |
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| trip0 | ...while we are talking about old software | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't recall crashing cpm much, if ever | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | we didn't move from cpm to dos until 5 iirc | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i played w/ 3.3 and 4 but | 18:58 |
| trip0 | :P | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | trip0: if you aren't at least 30, you're not going to win =b | 18:58 |
| trip0 | nope | 18:59 |
| trip0 | and nope ;) | 18:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS#Versions | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | you sure you didn't mean 3.3? | 19:00 |
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| trip0 | actually, i think the only dos i ever used was 5 | 19:03 |
| trip0 | but never let the truth get in the way of a good story | 19:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | trip0: sorry, i've used quite a few platforms, so i'm the wrong person to try that w/ i'll take you seriously, win anyway and then determine you were lying :) | 19:12 |
| trip0 | well, the point is still valid. you can complain about deprecated software all day... it doesn't do much good | 19:13 |
| trip0 | your points may be valid, but the software is still deprecated | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | if designer is integrated into creator, then it isn't deprecated | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | dos is deprecated, it isn't part of nt | 19:13 |
| trip0 | there is a designer in creator | 19:14 |
| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: that's not really an accurate metric, though | 19:14 |
| trip0 | but is it really "the designer" ? | 19:14 |
| w00t_ | as I mentioned earlier, I've been running the same instance of creator for a week now | 19:14 |
| w00t_ | trip0: pretty sure that yes, it is the same | 19:14 |
| w00t_ | trip0: designer standalone still exists too | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | well, since they didn't indicate how they fixed it | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i have no idea | 19:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | i don't know if they fixed qt to not assert, of if they fixed designer to sanity check input | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it's quite possible the bug or a similar one exists | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | given my experience w/ maemo =nokia code, i expect them to fix it incorrectly | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | if it were trolltech, i'd expect them to fix it correctly | 19:15 |
| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: if you remember what you did, I'd be happy to test it :p | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | if it were truly open source, i'd expect them to tell me how they fixed it | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t_: the bug report has the file :) | 19:15 |
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| w00t_ | ah right | 19:16 |
| w00t_ | I will look later | 19:16 |
| w00t_ | I need my Creator to not crash right now :-) | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | but roughly speaking, i created a fairly basic designer thingy, saved the thing, closed it, opened the file in a text editor, and either moved an xml thing or removed a container element | 19:16 |
| CosmoHill | i wonder if meego will run in virtual box | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | note that i've been using xml for years | 19:16 |
| CosmoHill | </thinkingoutload> | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | CosmoHill: moblin2.1 does | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | and mer does | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and i've had a mer which had most of diablo too | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | (advantage of working for nokia on maemo) | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i presume i could have a mer w/ most of fremantle if i bothered, but i'm too lazy | 19:17 |
| * timeless_mbp goes back to w7 | 19:17 | |
| CosmoHill | I'd have moblin on my laptop but nvidia breaks clutter | 19:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | moblin in theory wants some kind of acceleration which vbox doesn't have iiuc | 19:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | but that should be solvable | 19:22 |
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| drizztbsd | CosmoHill: you should make a custom image with binary nvidia drivers | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | I've rebuild xorg and install nvidia drivers | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | mobin became unusable | 19:36 |
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| drizztbsd | have you added Driver "nvidia" in xorg.conf? | 19:42 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 19:43 |
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| CosmoHill | everything was much smoother but the mobin panel failed to start so I couldn't access anything | 19:43 |
| drizztbsd | changed the libGL.so.1? | 19:43 |
| CosmoHill | no | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | installed nvidia driver and rebuild xorg | 19:44 |
| drizztbsd | that is the problem | 19:44 |
| drizztbsd | try to do glxinfo | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | i don't have moblin installed atm | 19:46 |
| drizztbsd | ok | 19:46 |
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| * CosmoHill cleans his room and tries to degeek it | 19:47 | |
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| thiago | degeek? | 19:48 |
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| thiago | how does that work? | 19:48 |
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| CosmoHill | think that reduce your sex appeal? | 19:49 |
| CosmoHill | like instead of having 3 desktops in your room | 19:49 |
| CosmoHill | only have one | 19:49 |
| CosmoHill | or at least hide 2 of them | 19:49 |
| thiago | you could throw away old pizza boxes | 19:50 |
| CosmoHill | but I like my HP PA-RISC computer | 19:50 |
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| thiago | want another one? I think we've outlived the usefulness of our PA-RISC machine | 19:53 |
| thiago | actually, we have two | 19:53 |
| CosmoHill | maybe | 19:54 |
| CosmoHill | what are they? | 19:54 |
| thiago | HP-UX piraya B.11.11 U 9000/785 2013624964 unlimited-user license | 19:54 |
| * drizztbsd hides him Ultra2 machine | 19:55 | |
| drizztbsd | s/him/his/ | 19:55 |
| CosmoHill | I put 9000/785 into yahoo and ended up with a gun :/ | 19:55 |
| thiago | if I knew how to get more info out of HP-UX, I'd give you | 19:55 |
| CosmoHill | the 'exotic' machines i have are a HP PA-RISC 700/80, Sun Sunblade 100 UltraSPARC IIe and various powermacs | 19:56 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago: what's the machine's model number? | 19:56 |
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| thiago | how do I find out? | 19:57 |
| CosmoHill | look at the machine? | 19:57 |
| thiago | that would imply finding it in the server room | 19:57 |
| CosmoHill | ah | 19:57 |
| CosmoHill | any idea on specs? | 19:57 |
| CosmoHill | or year | 19:58 |
| thiago | I found out that the disk is 70 GB | 19:58 |
| CosmoHill | ooo | 19:58 |
| CosmoHill | that's good | 19:58 |
| CosmoHill | mine is 1GB | 19:58 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago: ram / processors ? | 19:59 |
| thiago | no "free" | 20:00 |
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| CosmoHill | "top" ? | 20:03 |
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| thiago | Memory: 48612K (32864K) real, 300528K (133184K) virtual, 362904K free Page# 1/7 | 20:04 |
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| thiago | 32 MB doesn't sound right | 20:04 |
| thiago | but 384 does | 20:04 |
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| CosmoHill | here's my specs: 1GB hard drive, 64MB RAM, 80Mhz processor | 20:05 |
| style | Will meego come to n900? | 20:05 |
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| CosmoHill | yes | 20:05 |
| style | cool | 20:05 |
| CosmoHill | if the n900 has 3omp | 20:05 |
| CosmoHill | or something | 20:05 |
| thiago | I'm sure this processor is a bit better | 20:05 |
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| thiago | it can compile Qt in under a day | 20:05 |
| thiago | CosmoHill: 3omp? | 20:05 |
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| CosmoHill | hold on | 20:06 |
| thiago | did you mean OMAP3? | 20:06 |
| CosmoHill | 1330 Mar 24 20:28:34 <ImadSousou> Atom systems and N900 w/OMAP3 | 20:06 |
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| thiago | N900 is an OMAP3 device | 20:07 |
| CosmoHill | I just heard thunder so if I go offline you know why | 20:07 |
| thiago | OMAP3430 to be precise | 20:07 |
| thiago | more info on wikipedia | 20:08 |
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| trip0 | oh, so are we saying there will be a productized version of meego for the n900 now? | 20:08 |
| trip0 | or is that still vague? | 20:08 |
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| bfree | trip0: still vague. the "Day 1" code will run on the N900 is all that has been said afaik | 20:10 |
| CosmoHill | thiago: I'm on page about hp9000, they were made between 1980 and 2008 | 20:11 |
| CosmoHill | here's mine: http://www.openpa.net/systems/hp-9000_712.html | 20:11 |
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| GAN900 | Anybody got the meeting minutes handy? | 20:13 |
| CosmoHill | minutes? | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.html | 20:14 |
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| obcecado | i wonder whether meego will have a ipv6-ready kernel shipped in or not | 21:20 |
| CosmoHill | thiago_home: http://www.spec.org/cpu95/results/res98q4/cpu95-981204-03211.html :) i think that's it | 21:20 |
| CosmoHill | i don't see why it shouldn't | 21:20 |
| thiago_home | obcecado: I actually think it should | 21:20 |
| thiago_home | devices for 2011 should all be IPv6-ready | 21:20 |
| obcecado | the problem is not device-related | 21:20 |
| obcecado | theres already something out for freemantle, but the package is bugged | 21:21 |
| thiago_home | actually, it is | 21:21 |
| thiago_home | operators are requiring IPv6 | 21:21 |
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| thiago_home | (or are going to) | 21:21 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if meego will have a kernel | 21:32 | |
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| thiago_home | ShadowJK: nope, we'll run directly on BIOS :-P | 21:35 |
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| Stskeeps | we'll run in your brain, on your idle cpu cycles | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:36 |
| ShadowJK | I mean from a fragmentation point of view, whether you can rely on kernel features being present | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | i hope it is possible to have a shared set of kernel headers :P | 21:37 |
| thiago_home | kernel headers aren't used by userspace | 21:38 |
| ShadowJK | or if MeeGo doesn't care/define that as long as base system runs | 21:38 |
| thiago_home | userspace uses headers from glibc, which has a copy of the kernel headers, cleaned up | 21:38 |
| thiago_home | as for kernel features, it usually depends on the device | 21:39 |
| thiago_home | I don't see why some should have, for example, xfs support | 21:39 |
| thiago_home | sure, some people could have xfs USB sticks or microSD | 21:39 |
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| ShadowJK | how about netfilter and conntrack :) | 21:40 |
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| Stskeeps | evening DawnFoster | 21:59 |
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| DawnFoster | evening Stskeeps. Thanks again for your help getting the meego-meeting channel set up for the moderated TSG meeting yesterday. | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | np - all things considered it could have gone a lot worse :) | 22:03 |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster and Stskeeps | 22:04 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, I thought it went pretty well for the first one. Now, we just need to do some fine tuning. | 22:04 |
| DawnFoster | hey CosmoHill | 22:04 |
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| * thiago_home has collected all questions from yesterday and categorised them | 22:05 | |
| CosmoHill | :) | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | maybe we can get some more answered for the next meeting? | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | maybe a weekly blog, "ask the TSG" | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | are they going on the wiki to be answered at a later date? | 22:05 |
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| DawnFoster | we definitely ran out of time on the questions. | 22:15 |
| DawnFoster | I expect that we'll get to some of them next week with explicit agenda items. | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: "was it worth it"? | 22:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: if the members of TSG didn't see that coming.... | 22:16 |
| DawnFoster | Thiago - can we get those questions posted on the wiki somewhere? I'd like to make sure some of the bigger topics are covered explicitly on the agenda for next week. | 22:17 |
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| DawnFoster | timeless: we expected that it would be a bit chaotic with more questions than we could possibly answer. | 22:17 |
| DawnFoster | part of the reason that we went for an extra hour was because Imad / Valtteri wanted to answer as many questions as we could. | 22:18 |
| DawnFoster | I think we did pretty well for a first meeting :) | 22:18 |
| timeless_mbp | all things considered, it wasn't bad | 22:19 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'd kinda suggest that they consider using a spell checker | 22:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | they really don't come off professionally | 22:19 |
| timeless_mbp | and for the time block you're reserving, you aren't in a rush | 22:19 |
| timeless_mbp | one fewer question answered from a bucketful of unanswered questions won't be noticed :) | 22:20 |
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| CosmoHill | son of a bitch | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | I press play on a flash video and firefox died | 22:24 |
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| ShadowJK | CosmoHill, didn't you hear steve jobs proclaimed flash the source of all crashes | 22:25 |
| DawnFoster | I'll see what I can do on the spelling :) | 22:25 |
| RST38h | FireFox and N900 ? | 22:26 |
| CosmoHill | I'm on a mac | 22:26 |
| RST38h | Is Mac still supported by Mozilla? =) | 22:26 |
| CosmoHill | ShadowJK: how would he know? he doesn't allow flash on his shiny things | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | on the desktop and laptop machines he does | 22:27 |
| CosmoHill | just looking at Freesat HD, apparently this box can play bbc iplayer better than my desktop and powerbook | 22:28 |
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