IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2010-03-05

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tripzero	lol	00:00
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inz	thiago, oh wait, it shortened the day; we need anti-earthquakes!	00:00
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thiago_home	yeah	00:00
thiago_home	I was going to change QDateTime to use floating point because of that	00:00
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opdf2	thiago_home: is this n900+1 device 3G 1700 band compatible, like the n900? or is not enough known yet?	00:01
ShadowJK	not known	00:02
thiago_home	that I have no clue	00:02
ShadowJK	mostly "developer" kind of info that has leaked out ;)	00:02
thiago_home	I have seen pictures of the first prototypes and they look real nice	00:03
thiago_home	but are you going to trust me?	00:03
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get why Nokia just does not care about community retention.		00:04
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: you've got it wrong	00:04
thiago_home	Nokia does care	00:04
lcuk	i thought people that had seen those devices were sealed inside a vault in the basement of the nrc	00:04
pupnik_	GeneralAntilles: the devices keep getting better. Check your expectations.	00:04
thiago_home	Nokia can't seem to do it right, though	00:04
GeneralAntilles	It's simple	00:04
GeneralAntilles	Don't abandon all of your existing customers with each new release	00:04
thiago_home	and how would that be done?	00:04
GeneralAntilles	and don't poison your community with information vacuums.	00:04
GeneralAntilles	Easy, come out and say Harmattan will ship for the N900.	00:05
andli	meego!	00:05
thiago_home	or come out and say it won't?	00:05
lcuk	thiago_home, based on prior experience with any sort of prototype, the only good looking prototype i ever heard of was "Eve" and she had to go eat an apple	00:05
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, less good, but better than not saying anything.	00:05
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: fair enough, it's a good point	00:05
GeneralAntilles	Considering that any justification is going to be business or marketing based. . . .	00:06
andli	I guess Nokia want to sell support services for Qt........	00:06
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, there is something much better now that people here can answer. meego will be supported by n900	00:06
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, not anything new.	00:06
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, and doesn't help with Harmattan/N900	00:06
lcuk	stop asking questions you know people cannot say	00:06
GeneralAntilles	Hey, look, N900 will be a dev platform!	00:06
GeneralAntilles	I'm not asking any questions	00:06
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GeneralAntilles	I'm pointing out areas where Nokia seems to constantly fail.	00:06
lcuk	you are expecting statement from bods here	00:07
lcuk	and making them feel uncomfortable	00:07
GeneralAntilles	I'm not expecting statements	00:07
GeneralAntilles	I just want people to understand what the issue is	00:07
thiago_home	you're also expecting that a company will reveal its plans before they are ready	00:07
burchr	oh dear	00:07
thiago_home	and tip the competition	00:07
burchr	what have I walked into	00:07
lcuk	nahh	00:07
GeneralAntilles	One of the costs of being open.	00:07
thiago_home	I mean, Apple doesn't say anything about their products until release.	00:07
GeneralAntilles	The FUD we've got right now is poisoning the community.	00:07
andli	what FUD	00:08
GeneralAntilles	Apple also doesn't seem to have trouble supporting existing devices.	00:08
lcuk	i thought this mornings news about meego was anti-fud	00:08
andli	I don't see any FUD	00:08
thiago_home	yes, all of the other 2 devices	00:08
tripzero	heh, 1st gen iphone	00:08
thiago_home	which are basically the same device	00:08
lcuk	it was infact cherry coated lovelyness tbh and the best thing ive heard about meego	00:08
andli	lcuk: what news?	00:08
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, hey, look, N900 and N900+1 are basically the same, too. ;)	00:08
pupnik_	where?	00:08
lcuk	meego + n900	00:08
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: do you know that for a fact?	00:09
andli	meego is just a change of linux dist to moblin?	00:09
andli	what does n900 run for dist now?	00:09
burchr	lcuk: meego + n900 = love	00:09
andli	maemo is just the UI?	00:09
lcuk	maemo	00:09
thiago_home	andli: the N900 runs Maemo 5	00:09
andli	maemo is debian based?	00:09
ShadowJK	meego = maemo+moblin. Currently N900 runs Maemo 5	00:09
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lcuk	debian based os	00:09
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lcuk	burchr, wouldnt go that far :P you qt types are a bit meh :p	00:10
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, I know that the justification I've heard several times is multitouch	00:10
GeneralAntilles	Which is a marketing justification	00:10
GeneralAntilles	not a technical one	00:10
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: that's the only thing you've heard about the hardware	00:10
andli	what makes moblin good?	00:10
* burchr stabs lcuk :P		00:10
andli	I work with a moblin based OS at work	00:10
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3, capacitive, WVGA	00:10
pupnik_	i say usa along with android, iphone and moblin can fall of the planet for all i care :)	00:10
thiago_home	you don't know what processor the thing will have, what kind of keyboard (or lack thereof), what resolution	00:10
GeneralAntilles	Yes I do	00:10
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3	00:10
GeneralAntilles	Nothing in that lineup offers a technical justification	00:11
ShadowJK	unless they quietly changed it :)	00:11
burchr	then, perhaps, just perhaps, there's nothing stopping it happening	00:11
burchr	if someone wants to make it happen	00:11
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tripzero	android 2.1 still doesn't run on the G1	00:12
ShadowJK	burchr, it's usually all talk and no patches ;)	00:12
thiago_home	there's also the fact that supporting the N900 means _supporting_ it	00:12
thiago_home	it means committing resources	00:12
tripzero	or, iirc any phone other than the nexus one for that metter	00:12
andli	sudo apt-get install root :)	00:12
ShadowJK	tripzero, many of the HTC devices are stuck on 1.5 and don't even have access to the store :)	00:12
thiago_home	it's not a trivial decision to make, either way	00:12
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andli	I think it is said android phones miss the linux dist experience	00:13
andli	sad	00:13
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thiago_home	Android is to a Linux system what the iPhone is to a BSD	00:13
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, yeah, thus my wonderment at Nokia constantly abandoning its existing customers	00:13
lcuk	yeah, at the moment maemo is fully inclusive to the various toolkits, android is but one	00:14
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: yet Nokia devices sell like water	00:14
andli	thiago_home: well said	00:14
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: you know, over a billion of them sold per year	00:14
tripzero	microsoft always tries to honor their "existing customers" and that's why windows is the wonderful mess that it is	00:14
ShadowJK	I realized today I still use Maemo4 almost as much as Maemo5... even it has had no update in 2 years or something, it's in a good state anyway	00:14
Corsac	thiago_home: so you have access to iPhones sources? mind sharing them?	00:14
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thiago_home	Corsac: it's a Darwin kernel	00:14
Corsac	thiago_home: “iphone” nor “android” are only a kernel	00:15
ShadowJK	i thought they had stuck mach in there too somewhere	00:15
thiago_home	Corsac: the other way around	00:15
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, somewhere that doesn't help me as an existing customer.	00:15
thiago_home	Corsac: iphone and android are the whole package	00:15
lcuk	tripzero, MS has different things, i adore the fact i can run 20yo apps	00:15
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: I know. And what I can tell you is that these problems don't escape Nokia's perception.	00:15
Corsac	thiago_home: is still don't understand what you meant	00:16
thiago_home	GeneralAntilles: so, it's not that Nokia doesn't care. It's just that Nokia consistently fails to do something about it.	00:16
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, maybe they need to take the microsoft approach, make the new OS installable on almosy anything and let the customers discover for themselves they need to buy a new computer :)	00:16
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, yet they seem completely incapable of doing anything about it	00:16
lcuk	(tripzero, go find install for visicalc) oooh infact isnt it 30 years now!	00:16
Corsac	for me “android” as well as “iphone (os)”, “bsd” and “linux systems” are complete os	00:16
tripzero	ShadowJK, that's also the reason why it takes 3-9 years to come up with an iteration of windows?	00:16
GeneralAntilles	thiago_home, oh well, my enthusiasm's sapped and I've been cheerleading for Maemo since the beginning.	00:16
thiago_home	Corsac: I meant that Android runs Linux, but it's as close to a standard Linux distribution as the iPhone is close to a standard BSD system	00:16
thiago_home	Corsac: meaning, not close at all	00:16
GeneralAntilles	Nokia's loss I suppose.	00:16
thiago_home	yes, Nokia's loss	00:17
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GeneralAntilles	Hopefully the dinosaurs will eventually die off and the rest of us can move into the 21st century.	00:18
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Hydroxide	GeneralAntilles: I feel similarly to how you feel, but at the same time I don't see a better option, which also frustrates me	01:12
GeneralAntilles	Hydroxide, better option to?	01:12
Hydroxide	GeneralAntilles: for my choice of phone OS - I don't see a better option out there than M*o despite nokia's changes	01:13
GeneralAntilles	Hydroxide, oh, yeah, I know.	01:14
GeneralAntilles	Which is why this is all so frustrating for me.	01:14
Hydroxide	agreed.	01:14
GeneralAntilles	It'd be one thing if I could just to go another manufacturer and get what I want.	01:14
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* Hydroxide nods		01:14
GeneralAntilles	But nobody else offers what Nokia offers	01:14
GeneralAntilles	and soon enough Nokia wont even be offering anything that vaguely suits me.	01:14
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully I can con another proto out of them and we'll go from there. ;)	01:14
Hydroxide	we'll see. as much as I'm a Debian developer and quite proud of how well Debian works as a base for Maemo, I'm still going to give MeeGo a fair chance from a technical perspective - the bigger issue, as you said, is how they mistreat the community and don't communicate/involve us	01:15
burchr	nighty night, meego	01:16
GeneralAntilles	Later	01:16
pupnik_	maybe the value added by community to the bottom line is less than hoped	01:16
GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, nah, I just don't think the dinosaurs running Nokia get it.	01:17
GeneralAntilles	Think about the gaps maemo.org and itT have filled over the years	01:17
GeneralAntilles	Both in support and software	01:17
ShadowJK	As "community" myself, I'm pretty fed up with the constant whining by the "community" :P	01:17
pupnik_	i thought there were more people on the planet who would be productive tablet contributors	01:18
ShadowJK	I bet when N900+3 comes out with MeeGo, people will whine that MeeGo works poorly on N900, and then we can go to the bugzilla and see that there are near-zero bugreports of the specific issues, and that everyone just whined about it but didn't care enough to even try it ;)	01:19
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, :shrug:	01:19
GeneralAntilles	I hope my contributions have earned me some right to whine.	01:20
pupnik_	i dont think you were implied	01:20
ShadowJK	lol, no he wasn't implied	01:21
Hydroxide	constructive criticism should always be welcomed from anyone. ad hominems or other pointless bleating should only be tolerated in small doses from people who have earned the right :)	01:21
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jebba	the maemo bugzilla is actually quite good signal/noise.	01:23
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ShadowJK	jebba, they have a banhammer :)	01:25
GeneralAntilles	Not used with any frequency	01:25
ShadowJK	andre's standard reply is usually scary enough ;)	01:25
alden	just wondering, has the decision to use qt as meego's primary development toolkit been met with support or criticism from current moblin/maemo communities?	01:25
jebba	it's not used with any frequency??? There's nearly 10,000 reports in it.	01:26
ShadowJK	jebba, the banhammer	01:26
GeneralAntilles	^	01:26
GeneralAntilles	alden, generally support	01:26
GeneralAntilles	Although there are always the diehard supports of whatever toolkit wasn't picked.	01:27
alden	some of them being?	01:27
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tripzero	fltk	01:27
inz	Wewand Athena widgets!	01:28
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inz	Waht, how did I make that typo?	01:28
inz	s/Wewand/We want/	01:28
javispedro	.... but Motif is the only standardized one!	01:29
ShadowJK	sadly, I don't think any motif supporters came out of the closet	01:30
pupnik_	who remembers what daniel stone's "clean break" X11 successor was called?	01:31
ShadowJK	<luseremulation> iphone is so fluid it's like getting my head dunked into the toilet, why cant lienuix be like that maybe lenux should use NextStep too I herd there's GNUStep rite</luseremulation>	01:31
ml-mobile	no openstep?	01:31
ShadowJK	ml-mobile, sorry :)	01:31
ml-mobile	:(	01:31
ml-mobile	heh	01:32
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javispedro	pupnik_: Wayland? Y?	01:32
* ShadowJK confesses to having used GNUStep stuff		01:32
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GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, fluid would be nice.	01:33
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, but then we'd have to halve the resolution. ;)	01:33
ShadowJK	I don't really care	01:33
pupnik_	ty javispedro - interesting reading at least	01:34
ml-mobile	or overclock the graphics core	01:34
* ml-mobile bolts a chunk of copper to his N900		01:34
inz	Mobile solution	01:34
ShadowJK	I'd rather have gecko's and gtk's "omg, MUST HAVE FOCUS AND BE THE TOPMOST WINDOW NOW, SCREW WHATEVER THE USER IS DOING RIGHT NOW"-behaviour fixed before fluidity ;)	01:34
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, at least it's better in Fremantle.	01:36
GeneralAntilles	Diablo just made me want to stab my eyes out.	01:36
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ShadowJK	in diablo it's even tamperproof!	01:37
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tripzero	diablo is pre-freemantel right?	01:37
ShadowJK	yeah	01:37
tripzero	ahk	01:38
javispedro	fremantle!	01:38
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tripzero	i find fremantle pleasing to my eyes	01:38
javispedro	freemantel sounds like some free food shop.	01:38
tripzero	fremason	01:38
ShadowJK	in diablo the browser "tops itself"/steals focus approximately 3 times when you open a new window.. I wrote a LD_PRELOAD .so to kill XRaiseWindow(), but that only prevented one of the 3 focus stealing...	01:39
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javispedro	you get used to it, eventually.	01:40
GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:40
GeneralAntilles	I love it.	01:40
pupnik_	hey ShadowJK can you make new browser windows not take focus in fremantle?	01:40
GeneralAntilles	Eventually	01:40
ShadowJK	pupnik_, no idea	01:40
GeneralAntilles	I love how you have to wait to input text in new browser windows	01:40
GeneralAntilles	Else it just nukes whatever you've started typing	01:40
javispedro	it's not like if the other window would be responsible while the new spawned one is still loaded.	01:40
javispedro	*loading	01:40
ShadowJK	pupnik_, I'm not annoyed by it in fremantle, because most often after you switch back to where you were, it doesn't steal focus 3 times..	01:40
pupnik_	it actually is javispedro	01:40
ShadowJK	pupnik_, only partially :)	01:41
javispedro	I never had such luck in Diablo :)	01:41
pupnik_	open a new thread in t.m.o and you can switch back to old one and still scroll	01:41
pupnik_	yes partially	01:41
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ShadowJK	But the browser daemon part of it is busy loading/rendering/running_the_metric_tonne_of_jabascript and until that is mostly done, scrolling is about all that the browser frontend seems to have to offer :)	01:42
javispedro	on diablo that meant "everything hung",	01:43
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javispedro	on fremantle I can actually scroll, click on links. they focus, but the browser doesn't actually do anything.	01:43
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ShadowJK	javispedro, well it's not like you notice it's hung when you're kept occupied trying to switch to the right window ;)	01:44
javispedro	until the other page's ton of javascript is half done, then it opens 10 windows :)	01:44
javispedro	ShadowJK: completely right :)	01:44
* ShadowJK remembers a time when all linux desktop was like that, before window manager authors added "Prevent firefox focus stealing" tickboxes		01:44
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pupnik_	i should really disable javascript more often	01:45
GeneralAntilles	Fingers crossed for a newer Gecko in PR1.2	01:46
javispedro	with hopefully fixed font rendering? :)	01:46
ShadowJK	was something wrong with the font rendering?	01:47
ShadowJK	Except the generic syndrome that fonts are smaller than what you ask for because the system lies about DPI?	01:47
javispedro	ShadowJK: zoom until all the letter-spacing gets wrong.	01:48
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, which means anything but 100%	01:49
* ShadowJK also remembers someone japanese complaining that N900 renders kanji with chinese letters		01:49
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, dunno, I doubt it.	01:49
javispedro	I cannot imagine why Engadget didn't notice and started bashing the font rendering. A good MacHead (no offense) wouldn't let such frontal attack on sacred typography rules fly!	01:49
GeneralAntilles	Has it been fixed upstream?	01:49
ShadowJK	but that's part of a much bigger unicode problem...	01:49
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, it makes zooming completely unusable.	01:49
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GeneralAntilles	I dunno how people can use zooming at all.	01:49
ShadowJK	now that you mentioned it I can see it, but I hadn't seen it before.. :)	01:50
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javispedro	ShadowJK: the first time I saw it was using TV-out.	01:50
javispedro	before that I did not notice it either.	01:50
ShadowJK	But then again, before N900 I was using putty with a 6 pixel font on my S60 phone... I'm used to reading garbage	01:50
* GeneralAntilles is a long-time MacHead		01:51
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GeneralAntilles	Font rendering is a big sticking point for me. ;)	01:51
ShadowJK	oh and when I upgrade my OS, all the xterms usually go back to using antialised text and my eyes feel like someone stabbed them with a salted rusty dull knife	01:52
javispedro	yes, that is an usual symptom :)	01:52
GeneralAntilles	I manage to get Monaco to work for the first few weeks after a flash then it goes to shit.	01:53
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pupnik_	i also like the crisp un-AA fonts	02:00
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jaybhumil	hi how do u get bills in this website for the clan in diablo 2	02:15
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CosmoHill	?	02:15
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CosmoHill	cyas	02:16
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thresh	OHAI	07:52
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Stskeeps	morning	08:06
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Stskeeps	the whole orange getting into meego thing just confirms we'll need something like my vendor social contract..	08:18
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, you wont get it.	08:20
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, between the security framework stuff and the operator stuff we've already seen with Maemo 5.	08:21
GeneralAntilles	I don't see it happening.	08:21
GeneralAntilles	We need it, but it wont happen.	08:21
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: well, my ideas are a bit more low-level - and admittedly, it's only enforcable through a community agreeing not to bother with non-complying vendors	08:22
GeneralAntilles	Which is basically irrelevant. ;)	08:22
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ShadowJK	Let's hope that meego.com lists/forums become somewhat tolerant of discussions regarding devices by friendly vendors	08:33
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tekojo	ShadowJK personal opinion would be that MeeGo devices should have a place there	08:37
tekojo	but as said, just a personal opinion, no-one has really discussed that yet, as there are no devices.	08:38
ShadowJK	on a technical level making meego as useful and functional as possible will reduce the need for vendors to munge it	08:39
ShadowJK	but then there's the crippling out of pure malice that goes on too :-)	08:39
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, ha!	08:40
* Stskeeps 's rather impressed to see qgil up at 5:40 and cleaning up N900 FUD		08:40
GeneralAntilles	It's all about getting the last cent out of your customer.	08:40
GeneralAntilles	Doesn't matter how useful or functional something is	08:40
GeneralAntilles	that's the end goal.	08:40
tekojo	Stskeeps that's why he has an N900 on him	08:40
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, same old noise.	08:40
Stskeeps	i wonder if we'll start seeing N900 rehab programmes in rehab institutions..	08:41
tekojo	GeneralAntilles that's really oversimplifying a lot	08:41
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, which?	08:42
GeneralAntilles	For operator-customized firmwares?	08:42
* GeneralAntilles has never seen one that INCREASES functionality.		08:42
tekojo	the goal for any company is to make a profit, that can be done in a variety of ways, but profit it has to be according to the rules	08:42
tekojo	Oh, operator firmware, they are an interesting phenomenon	08:43
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, the only thing operator customization serves to do is decrease functionality (the upsell and nickel'n'dime services) and funnel money towards the operator.	08:43
GeneralAntilles	Operators are going to hurt MeeGo	08:43
tekojo	they really do try to make a profit	08:43
GeneralAntilles	and Nokia and Intel are apparently going to let them do it.	08:43
tekojo	Operators just play with the same rules as everyone else in MeeGo	08:43
tekojo	It's all open	08:43
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, pfft	08:43
ShadowJK	hey, even Saunalahti in .fi are trying to sabotage the N900 by regulary sending operator settings for the WAP gateway (which doesn't work with N900) :-D	08:44
tekojo	if they contribute I'm all for it	08:44
GeneralAntilles	The user-facing front-end can be anything	08:44
GeneralAntilles	The security framework means they can lock you into whatever.	08:44
GeneralAntilles	It's GPLv2 for some reason.	08:44
Stskeeps	right, GPL was mentioned, time to go brew coffee	08:44
tekojo	GeneralAntilles, then don't buy from an operator?	08:44
ShadowJK	:)	08:45
tekojo	That's what I do and that's what my wife does...	08:45
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, that doesn't help the hordes of uninformed consumers out there	08:45
tekojo	Infrom the consumers then?	08:45
GeneralAntilles	What do they get when they buy a MeeGo-branded device that doesn't work?	08:45
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, something I'd love to see Nokia do.	08:45
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, amusingly I've seen an "educational" video made by Nokia USA about this issue :)	08:46
GeneralAntilles	Instead they're just keeping the status quo rolling.	08:46
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, I haven't, and there's the problem.	08:46
* tekojo has a gut feeling that this is again some peculiar difference in the US - Europe operator market		08:46
GeneralAntilles	(if anybody wants to try blaming Nokia's failure as a company in the US on operators, they haven't had to deal with Nokia USA).	08:46
ShadowJK	tekojo, you're actually starting to see some of it in .fi too.. certain tariffs, and certain devices, are getting harder to find unbundled :)	08:47
tekojo	That sucks	08:47
tekojo	Usually it is easy to do the math of 24*random number > device price	08:48
ShadowJK	Like, before Nokia came out with the Nokia CS-15, it was actually kind hard to purchase a non-crappy 3g usb modem separately	08:48
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, in the US there's no difference.	08:48
GeneralAntilles	Unless you're an iPhone user (in which case you pay double for data)	08:48
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Stskeeps	at least the iphone helped to get sane data plans	08:50
GeneralAntilles	Didn't change anything in the US.	08:50
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, in summary, I think Nokia's squandering an opportunity here (surprise, surprise) and it's going to end up hurting the brand.	08:51
Stskeeps	that said, the only operator customization i had in .dk wasn't evil as such, then again, i didn't know how it was without customization	08:52
GeneralAntilles	Ugh, 2 AM	08:53
GeneralAntilles	'night	08:53
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tekojo	night	08:59
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ShadowJK	Stskeeps, well if anyone tries to take away my N900 there'll be a bloodbath ;-)	09:06
* ShadowJK suspects N900 rehab programs would be messy		09:07
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Stskeeps	ShadowJK: probably much in spirit with that video	09:13
ShadowJK	indeed	09:13
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:35
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burchr	morn Jaffa	11:55
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alden	morning	12:48
brik	morn	12:48
burchr	ing	12:53
Robot101	blurgh	12:55
burchr	I second that notion	12:55
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MisterN	when will downloads be finally available?	14:38
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ShadowJK	hey, dead-tree computer magazine arrived in mail yesterday. It has mention of a company setting up a team of 40 devs to make apps for MeeGo :-)	15:19
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robsta	ShadowJK: details!	15:20
ShadowJK	not that exciting	15:21
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ShadowJK	(I mean there weren't any details of what they were planning to do or what they have done in the past or anything like that=	15:37
ShadowJK	)	15:37
robsta	ShadowJK: name, location, link?	15:39
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ShadowJK	"Sasken"	15:51
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poutsi	ShadowJK, which mag?	15:56
koupsa	hello	15:58
ShadowJK	prosessori	15:58
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poutsi	thanks, gotta check it out	15:58
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koupsa	ShadowJK: Orange work on meego too	16:10
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firegnu	will meego released in the end of this month?	16:55
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milliams	firegnu: The code is supposed to be yes. Whether or not that's a working distro is another matter.	16:58
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Corsac	as said elsewhere, repo.meego.com seems available (though empty)	17:20
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slaine	At last, after about 10 months of effort, I've gotten some feedback from someone in Intel. Trying not to put the rant dial up to 11	18:17
RST38h	slaine: Out of morbid curiosity, WHAT did you want the Intel to respond you about?	18:19
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Corsac	the pentium bug	18:21
RST38h	f00f? =)	18:21
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slaine	rofl	18:21
slaine	Early last year I was enquiring about how to become a Moblin OSV (i.e. package and sell Moblin as part of our overal products)	18:22
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slaine	I've been flat out ignored or bounced around	18:22
RST38h	slaine: Oh, that...Isn't it all GPLed?	18:23
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slaine	Yes, but funny how Novel, Dell etc. seemed to be able to ship customized versions before the GPL'd code was available.	18:23
slaine	or rather, at the same time	18:23
Yanhai	moblin isn't all gpled I think	18:23
Yanhai	it seems double licensed	18:24
RST38h	slaine: AFAIK you can do whatever you want to GPLed stuff	18:24
slaine	yeah, but I wasn't about to base our companies OS future on a platform with no publicly available roadmap	18:24
RST38h	slaine: If you actually want Intel to have ...mhmm... closer relationships with you, then arjan or some other OTC guy is the right point of contact	18:24
slaine	There's only so much they're allowed to reveal	18:25
slaine	I've had several excellent discussions with the Intel engineers	18:25
RST38h	slaine: They do not have to reveal anything. They have to refer your company to their manager, up the chain	18:26
RST38h	Who will consider if you are big enough to be worth having sex with and, if decision is positive, will refer you to Intel Legal	18:26
slaine	yes and that's what I did	18:26
slaine	and eventually got a reply last night	18:27
RST38h	See, it is a managerial decision of whether they will spend resources on you or not	18:27
Yanhai	i think it's also because moblin has been under big change these months	18:27
slaine	yes, we're a very small fish. so chances are nobody was bothered to follow up on things	18:28
Yanhai	so they can't answer you before themselves have a clear roadmap	18:28
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slaine	This goes back to when 2.0 was in Alpha	18:28
RST38h	slaine: There are multiple factors contributing to the decision, not just your size	18:28
RST38h	slaine: Your prospects in terms of products sold and markets conquered also matter	18:28
RST38h	slaine: So, remember that when you make a pitch ;)	18:29
Yanhai	and also your target device, i think.	18:29
slaine	RST38h: thanks	18:29
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th0br0	heya	18:41
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CosmoHill	hey	18:43
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megabast	someone has already worked with gmenu-tree here?	18:46
megabast	I need to retrieve icon's path with gmenu tree...	18:47
slaine	After several edits, the responses rant dial was down below 4 I'd say	18:47
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slaine	sigh, there goes another member of the moblin community	18:53
slaine	shedding users/devs awfully fast.	18:53
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wazd_e63	Hello mi-go :)	19:01
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wilbur626	i have n900 i me	19:12
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wilbur626	meego runs a tad slow, anyone have any advice ?	19:12
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CosmoHill	there is a meego release?	19:19
tripzero	probably not yet	19:20
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toefraz	i've heard that they are going to try to get the repository for the source online by the end of the month...	19:23
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CosmoHill	[17:12] <wilbur626> meego runs a tad slow, anyone have any advice ?	19:25
CosmoHill	that's what'[s confused me	19:25
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toefraz	he may be a developer with access the source now. i'm just guessing though	19:28
tripzero	hmm	19:29
toefraz	access to the*	19:29
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sivang	re all	19:36
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koupsa	mlfoster: are you here?	20:55
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koupsa	any translater?	20:56
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CosmoHill	nope	21:03
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tripzero	"N900 is a natural tool for Nokia to drive MeeGo support for our designs and for the ARM CPU architecture in general."	21:10
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tripzero	"That said, please do not take this yet as a commitment to fully productise MeeGo on N900."	21:11
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GeneralAntilles	tripzero, i.e., absolutely no new information. ;)	21:15
tripzero	right	21:16
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polac	but at least some hope to run meego on n900	21:21
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GeneralAntilles	There was always hope	21:22
GeneralAntilles	This doesn't really help us at all	21:22
GeneralAntilles	It doesn't get us the Ovi Store	21:22
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GeneralAntilles	It doesn't get us Ovi Maps with navigation	21:22
GeneralAntilles	it doesn't get us any of Nokia's differentiation	21:22
GeneralAntilles	Hell, it really doesn't get us much farther than Mer gets us now.	21:22
GeneralAntilles	Which without some more people to write statusbar applets and control panels isn't very far at all.	21:23
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polac	good points.	21:24
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GeneralAntilles	polac, keep expectations low and you wont be disappointed. ;)	21:24
GeneralAntilles	and you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised!	21:24
* CosmoHill would like to give meego a try on his laptop		21:25
polac	maybe this way then: at least some hope to run meego before first actual device on my n900	21:25
GeneralAntilles	polac, no more or less than there was before the announcement. ;)	21:26
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GeneralAntilles	MeeGo seems open enough and the N900 is open enough that that's a reasonably easy thing for the community to achieve.	21:26
GeneralAntilles	It's not yet clear what it actually means, though.	21:26
GeneralAntilles	The reference UIs are the worrying part.	21:26
GeneralAntilles	MeeGo seems to enforce less platform consistency (top to bottom) than would be ideal.	21:27
polac	okay, so you do not get excited too easily. i get that. :)	21:28
ml-mobile	I think the expectation that hardware vendors would supply most of the UI is tempering that	21:28
microlith	and why am I typing on my phone when VNC is open	21:29
GeneralAntilles	Evening, javispedro, by the way.	21:30
polac	GeneralAntilles, btw. Is it possible that I remember you from the times I playd with my new n770	21:30
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javispedro	evening GAN.	21:30
GeneralAntilles	polac, very.	21:30
javispedro	and everyone :)	21:30
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RST38h	moo javis	21:32
polac	GeneralAntilles, I believe that you helped me back then with something important. :) I have been away for sometime. meego brought me back. :)	21:32
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polac	your opinion: would it be easier to change my desktop distro to rh or suse considering meego developing. i mean because rpm and obs and what else technologies that come from those distros.	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Doubtful	21:38
GeneralAntilles	The tooling should be abstracting that all away	21:38
* GeneralAntilles is the wrong person to ask, though.		21:39
polac	so, let's be patient and wait for more info.	21:40
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Cosmo[PB]	die bitch	21:49
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