| jeremiah | :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bobbyd | so who here is from the moblin side? or is everyone maemoified? | 00:00 |
| bobbyd | (not that I should be talking of sides of course :) ) | 00:00 |
| lbt | heritage... | 00:00 |
| mwichmann | the sides fell off the truck | 00:00 |
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| jeremiah | I thought we were all for one and one for all? | 00:01 |
| lbt | yeah, all the good stuff fell out .... debs.... | 00:01 |
| lcuk | timeless, it helps both you and the beginners to discuss things. i found a load of bugs and duplications by talking with zach about different aspects we were starting documenting | 00:01 |
| ahynes1 | bobbyd: I guess I'm both now | 00:01 |
| bobbyd | what's moblin been used for int he past? linux netbooks? | 00:02 |
| slaine_ | bobbyd: me I guess | 00:02 |
| timeless_mbp | 'zach'? | 00:02 |
| Clay | mostly netbooks right now | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, Summer of Code student. | 00:02 |
| timeless_mbp | in my domain, zach = zach@realm:mozilla.org | 00:02 |
| slaine_ | some unreleased MIDs and SmartPhones too | 00:03 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not saying they aren't useless | 00:03 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm saying that unguided, they're harmful | 00:03 |
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| ahynes1 | there was a good post recently on loading moblin image on a memory stick, soI started running moblin that way | 00:04 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone doing documentation needs to have very direct(*) supervision | 00:04 |
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| * slaine_ waves a ahynes1 | 00:04 | |
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| * ahynes1 waves @ slaine_ | 00:06 | |
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| ahynes1 | slaine_ : I owe you a follow up email | 00:07 |
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| slaine_ | indeed, I've been waiting patiently for one | 00:07 |
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| slaine_ | and from qgil for that matter | 00:07 |
| ahynes1 | (when I get some time) | 00:07 |
| qgil | slaine_: huh? | 00:07 |
| slaine_ | you wondered why my crappy site didn't have comments and I offered to blog post any comments | 00:08 |
| slaine_ | However, as a group, I think we've all moved past those conversations now anyway | 00:09 |
| ahynes1 | Yeah, I think so | 00:09 |
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| CosmoHill | btw how is Qt pronouced? | 00:13 |
| CosmoHill | I pronouce it Qu-Tea | 00:14 |
| slaine_ | as do I | 00:14 |
| lcuk | cute | 00:14 |
| slaine_ | I also hear lots of people say it that way | 00:14 |
| th0br0 | righ, g2g. | 00:14 |
| th0br0 | http://meego.mkdir.name/logs/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-02-24-20.04.html << the logs . | 00:15 |
| lcuk | but dont trust me | 00:15 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 00:15 |
| slaine_ | time for sleeps | 00:15 |
| lcuk | call into #qt | 00:15 |
| slaine_ | catch you all tomorrow | 00:15 |
| th0br0 | yeah. see you | 00:15 |
| CosmoHill | bye bye | 00:15 |
| ahynes1 | take care | 00:15 |
| qgil | CosmoHill: Qt guys say "cute" as it's said in English | 00:15 |
| Maulkin | Trolltech said it was "cute" | 00:16 |
| Maulkin | Though I always say cue-tea. | 00:16 |
| CosmoHill | "I'm learning cute" "you poof" | 00:16 |
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| lbt | ah CosmoHill is english | 00:16 |
| * GeneralAntilles could cue some tea. | 00:16 | |
| Maulkin | mmm... tea | 00:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, what, with his £500 car and all. | 00:17 |
| lbt | heh missed that | 00:17 |
| Hydroxide | Maulkin: stop stalking me Neil ;-) | 00:17 |
| Hydroxide | Maulkin: in other words, hi | 00:17 |
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| qgil | bye! | 00:18 |
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| lbt | masochist | 00:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, well, we always suspected there was something wrong with Quim. ;) | 00:22 |
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| lbt | heh | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | 3am visits to tmo just shows he is as deepily addicted to the community as we are :) | 00:23 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Or the kids wake him up ;) | 00:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, sounds like beatings are required. | 00:24 |
| tekojo | Good night! | 00:25 |
| lbt | night tekojo | 00:25 |
| X-Fade | beatings? | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, for kids who wake their parents up early in the morning. :P | 00:25 |
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| Wutzara | Hi all, i heard that meego will use the UI from moblin but for application-development Qt is that right? | 00:29 |
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| * timeless_mbp doesn't think so :) | 00:31 | |
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| thiago_home | Wutzara: I don't think it's decided | 00:37 |
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| Wutzara | thiago_home: ah ok. It's strange because Moblin UI use clutter and mx - which are pure C/Glib. And i want to develop a plugin for the toolbar so im a little bit confused about the change to Qt ;) | 00:39 |
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| xxiao | cough...is the deb vs rpm debate over? | 00:41 |
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| CosmoHill | xxiao: yes | 00:43 |
| CosmoHill | multiple times too i think | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | let's just say yes so it doesn't start again | 00:43 |
| xxiao | so i guess there will be a deb-based meego from a different community then :) | 00:44 |
| CosmoHill | you could probably do a script that will convert rpm to deb | 00:44 |
| Hydroxide | CosmoHill: it exists. it's called 'alien' | 00:44 |
| CosmoHill | oh yeah | 00:44 |
| xxiao | Hydroxide, alien does not really always work though | 00:45 |
| Hydroxide | xxiao: I was about to say, the results of such an automated conversion (in either direction) rarely integrate well | 00:45 |
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| xxiao | it must have something to do with novell/opensuse, now i don't believe meego is going to take deb, but i hope there will be a deb-meego, like what n900 guys have now | 00:46 |
| Hydroxide | IIRC they're still planning to sue deb for harmattan aka what was going to be called maemo 6 before the rebranding | 00:47 |
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| Hydroxide | but the major version following that is supposed to switch to rpm to converge with moblin. (note, I have no inside info and don't work for any relevant company. this is just my understanding of public statements) | 00:47 |
| Hydroxide | s/sue deb/use deb/ (much to the probable relief of ian murdock's former wife! :P) | 00:48 |
| xxiao | it's not really about rpm/deb, it's about the upstream source, which one is popular, and if there is a company or community(debian) behind all these. | 00:48 |
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| xxiao | anyway i do not want to have another debate, just want to check quick | 00:48 |
| Hydroxide | xxiao: right, I mean they aren't going to likely make the switch away from a debian base on the nokia side until after harmattan | 00:48 |
| Hydroxide | I don't want to get into the debate either, since I know it won't do any good | 00:49 |
| Hydroxide | just stating my understanding of the facts | 00:49 |
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| xxiao | understood :) | 00:49 |
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| CosmoHill | poke me if needed | 01:07 |
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| tripzero | where's the place to talk about libdui stuff? | 01:48 |
| CosmoHill | here? | 01:48 |
| tripzero | nice :) | 01:49 |
| tripzero | i just haven't seen much talk about dev'ing with it in this channel yet | 01:49 |
| CosmoHill | GeneralAntilles: is there still much going on in #meego-meeting ? | 01:51 |
| lcuk | no it finished | 01:52 |
| tripzero | doesn't look like it | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | T somebody said it was the end and i left | 01:53 |
| Blice | tripzero: there's a #meego-devel , but I don't think its very active yet due to there being no code. | 01:53 |
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| CosmoHill | just talk in here | 01:54 |
| CosmoHill | wait there is a devel? | 01:54 |
| CosmoHill | i think we only have hello.cpp | 01:54 |
| tripzero | um, there's a bunch of harmattan stuff on gitorious now | 01:55 |
| tripzero | so technically, one should be able to start writing apps | 01:55 |
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| tripzero | w00t! | 02:08 |
| arachnist | ? | 02:09 |
| tripzero | Got my duiWidget actions to work | 02:10 |
| arachnist | cool | 02:11 |
| tripzero | apparently you can't have actions on a DuiLabel, but if you create widget then add your label and actions, it works | 02:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey | 02:13 |
| timeless_mbp | could someone change http://meego.com/front so that when you're logged in, it says who you are instead of just 'my account'? | 02:13 |
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| tripzero | file a bug? | 02:16 |
| * timeless_mbp decides tripzero is serious | 02:17 | |
| tripzero | ;) | 02:17 |
| tripzero | not sure if any of the web guys are in here | 02:17 |
| CosmoHill | maybe | 02:18 |
| lcuk | timeless, i bet 50 comments before such a modification is allowed | 02:19 |
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| lcuk | if at all | 02:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: given that bugzilla is currently restricted access | 02:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think i have to worry about that many comments :) | 02:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | tripzero: bug filed :) | 02:25 |
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| tripzero | nice | 02:26 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders filing bug 10 | 02:26 | |
| lcuk | lol | 02:26 |
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| lcuk | timeless, why are bugs closed? | 02:26 |
| lcuk | or restricted | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 02:27 |
| lcuk | whats the url | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not an admin | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | oh: | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Bug #1 does not exist. | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | well, that's why i couldn't count it | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | there are only 2 bugs in the database | 02:28 |
| timeless_mbp | in case you're wondering, Bug #2 does not exist. (either) | 02:28 |
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| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 02:33 | |
| timeless_mbp | could someone please review http://moblin.org/community/bugzilla/how-report-bugs-bugzilla ? | 02:34 |
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| CosmoHill | erm | 02:41 |
| CosmoHill | bugzilla should be up by next week | 02:41 |
| lcuk | timeless, "`wget http://moblin.org/community/bugzilla/how-report-bugs-bugzilla`; echo lol" | 02:42 |
| lcuk | i know they like exact steps | 02:42 |
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| lcuk | but how in gods name would a person know the difference between the suggested change | 02:43 |
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| lcuk | # For example, instead of paraphrasing commands by saying: | 02:43 |
| lcuk | "suspend the system or put system to S3" | 02:43 |
| lcuk | we prefer to see the following exact commands as steps to reproduce the bug: | 02:43 |
| lcuk | # % echo mem >/sys/power/state | 02:43 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 02:44 |
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| lcuk | thats the example they specify on the page you mentioned | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp | normal users can't / don't stick a system into S3 | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the only users who put a system into S3 are the ones who would actually be using 'echo mem > /sys/power/state' | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the problem, is that those stupid users are likely to file the bug in the form 'put system to S3' | 02:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, it's not a good example for average users | 02:45 |
| lcuk | ive filed bugs in the past that say "computer would not resume from standby" | 02:45 |
| timeless_mbp | find a better example | 02:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: arguably that's not a good set of steps to reproduce | 02:45 |
| lcuk | of course not | 02:45 |
| lcuk | and its also not the best example for bugzilla instructions either | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the point of the little bit is to get people to describe what they actually did | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp | not what they generally did | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp | find a better example | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp | please | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp | but it's ~3am, so don't make me find it | 02:46 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a reason i asked people to look at it | 02:46 |
| lcuk | heh | 02:46 |
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| ShadowJK | I thought echo blah > /sys/blah for S3 suspend bypassed all the magic scripts in userspace that ensure a smooth ride? :-) | 02:51 |
| tripzero | pm-suspend? | 02:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: dunno, but maybe that's what caused the bug :) | 02:52 |
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| ShadowJK | on my desktop I always used gnome-power-cmd.sh suspend | 02:55 |
| ShadowJK | which fires off the magic scripts too | 02:55 |
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| arjan_afk | ShadowJK: use pm-suspend | 03:17 |
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| CosmoHill | 2.6.33 is out | 03:39 |
| tripzero | w00t | 03:40 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:51 |
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| qgil | hi from the commuter train Leppavaara - Helsini center :) | 06:25 |
| qgil | gasp, "Helsinki" good morning | 06:25 |
| jsa_ | Good morning | 06:26 |
| qgil | the first thing I will do when reaching the office will be to blog a summary of the (very productive) meego.com website yesterday | 06:26 |
| qgil | how are things going on #meego? hottest topics? anything I can help clarifying still? | 06:27 |
| qgil | "meego.com website *meeting* yesterday" I mean | 06:28 |
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| qgil | (perhaps it's not such a good idea to log here right after my breakfast, with part of my brain still booting up) :) | 06:29 |
| jsa_ | :) | 06:29 |
| jsa_ | It's been rather quiet since midnight(Finnish) here | 06:30 |
| qgil | jsa_ sounds like "progress" to me ;) | 06:30 |
| jsa_ | Indeed :) | 06:30 |
| jsa_ | Someone was asking about libdui, and where to talk about it / developing with it | 06:31 |
| qgil | you can get in touch with the developers at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44562 | 06:33 |
| qgil | As an application developer, I would wait before putting my time there, though | 06:34 |
| qgil | but whoever is interested in the open development of these libraries please go on, try therm out, meet the developers etc | 06:35 |
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| qgil | (thinking out loud:) | 06:40 |
| qgil | (a "problem" here and now can be that the current developers around MeeGo and even Maemo or Moblin | 06:41 |
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| qgil | are in a noticeable percentage 'old school' | 06:41 |
| qgil | expecting apps with button, widgets etc | 06:42 |
| qgil | running in native environment | 06:42 |
| qgil | however | 06:42 |
| qgil | mobile development trends are moving fast away from that | 06:42 |
| qgil | into simpler apps either very graphical with own UI paradigms and styling | 06:43 |
| qgil | or really simple with a couple of use cases to address | 06:43 |
| qgil | that can be covered simply with e.g. a Web Runtime app | 06:43 |
| qgil | so thing like libdui look now like very important to everybody | 06:44 |
| qgil | when in fact 90% of developers perhaps don't need to go there and never will | 06:45 |
| qgil | thoughts? | 06:45 |
| suryasans | I don't think we need another linux OS for mobile platform, sorry. | 06:46 |
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| qgil | suryasans: ok, which one would you pick, then? | 06:48 |
| suryasans | ubuntu based OD, I think. | 06:48 |
| suryasans | Oops, Ubuntu distribution | 06:49 |
| qgil | suryasans and what happens to mobile use cases are secondary there and would imply different technology choices or pushing specific patches still not in mainline components etc? | 06:50 |
| qgil | in practice, Ubuntu mostly integrates from Debian and ads little platform development on its own | 06:51 |
| qgil | that is two levels of integration before you start your 'mobile integration" as a downstream of Ubuntu | 06:52 |
| suryasans | Canonical as the promoter of Linux is already well known. | 06:53 |
| mook01 | ubuntu has quite good community support for the end user | 06:53 |
| qgil | but MeeGo handles a lot op upstream development, and for the crucial components for mobile use cases we are actually upstream, or very near from upstream | 06:53 |
| qgil | Canonical and Ubunt | 06:54 |
| qgil | sorry, let me enter the bujilding :) | 06:55 |
| suryasans | But, we must support the most established player than creating the new one. | 06:56 |
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| qgil | what does "most established player"? | 06:57 |
| qgil | mean | 06:57 |
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| Myrtti | so we need to allow 6-12mo or even longer lag for fixing specific hardware problems and get patches through? problem with ubuntu is that is is quite far from upstream from hardware vendors viewpoint | 06:58 |
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| suryasans | Linux distrubition is too fragmented, most of them is the spun off from another. I think we can use Ubuntu as the base for mobile Linux. | 06:59 |
| qgil_ | hi from my (Ubuntu!) laptop :) | 06:59 |
| qgil_ | Alright, Ubuntu has a nice bran (popularity) and they have an impressive community | 06:59 |
| qgil_ | still, this doesn't help you if you want to develop a mobile platform with plenty of "own" developers | 07:00 |
| suryasans | Maintenance is the key. Don't build another one for your own ego. | 07:00 |
| Myrtti | (and don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu and defend it with my life and health) | 07:00 |
| qgil_ | MeeGo is basically made by components that are maintained upstream + own components | 07:01 |
| qgil_ | the maintenance of the own components is on our shouldders no matter what is the distro | 07:01 |
| qgil_ | the maintenance of the upstream part has two sides: | 07:01 |
| qgil_ | some upstream components are maintained by someone else completely, so no big different integrating them in MeeGo or in Ubuntu | 07:01 |
| qgil_ | some upstream components have already heavy involvement of Intel and/or Nokia, so no big difference there either | 07:02 |
| qgil_ | this is why I was asking what "established player" means | 07:03 |
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| qgil_ | Ubuntu is very visible from a user and Linux desktop fan point of view | 07:03 |
| qgil_ | but have no doubt that Intel or Nokia (alone, leave alone combined) are much more established in Linux and freedesktop *development* | 07:03 |
| qgil_ | which is the primary mission of MeeGo | 07:03 |
| suryasans | It is better we merged MeeGo to Ubuntu linux distribution. | 07:04 |
| qgil_ | suryasans: do you know what Canonical thinks about this? | 07:04 |
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| Myrtti | mark hangs here, has anyone asked him? :-D | 07:05 |
| suryasans | Intel and Nokia are another technology partner for Canonical. Technically, it's possible to do that. | 07:06 |
| qgil_ | and what if MeeGo needs primary attention to be a mainstream mobile platform, instead of being "another technology partner" for an otherwise "small" organization? | 07:07 |
| suryasans | Ubuntu is the first company who has dedicated for end user. | 07:07 |
| qgil_ | do not underestimate the challenge of pushing a moblie agenda in a "desktop" grounded context | 07:07 |
| suryasans | Oops, canonical | 07:08 |
| qgil_ | look the GNOME Mobile initiative inside GNOME | 07:08 |
| qgil_ | I guess the Plasma/Netbook guys at KDE are in a similar situation | 07:08 |
| qgil_ | imagine that a mobile agenda in a desktop-centri distro would bring changes or unstability in components that otherwise would be just fine and stable e.g. your UI toolkit | 07:09 |
| suryasans | That is why we must unified it under Ubuntu distrbution. A well known distribution better than creating multiple distrbution. | 07:09 |
| qgil_ | either you spend a lot of energy convincing the "desktop guys" | 07:09 |
| qgil_ | or you have to start forking to let everybody run forward | 07:09 |
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| qgil_ | but by forking you are starting to loose the benefits of being under a common umbrella | 07:09 |
| suryasans | Look at this page there is ubuntu mobile edition. http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile | 07:10 |
| suryasans | Even Ubuntu desktop version for ARM. http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/arm | 07:11 |
| qgil_ | suryasans: yeah, I know | 07:11 |
| qgil_ | do you know what technologies are they using to put up all that together? | 07:12 |
| suryasans | Unified interface could bring another chanche to make linux more favourable. | 07:12 |
| qgil_ | do you think Ubuntu Mobile would be there without the work of Maemo and Moblin? | 07:12 |
| suryasans | Yes, I think | 07:13 |
| qgil_ | I'm talking in concrete terms: technologies developed by Intel and Nokia | 07:13 |
| suryasans | Too many possibilites in Linux. | 07:13 |
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| qgil_ | but c'man Maemo and Moblin came before Ubuntu Mobile | 07:14 |
| qgil_ | Ubuntu Mobile first used Nokia's Hildon, then OpenedHand/Intel's Clutter... | 07:14 |
| qgil_ | not to dismiss the work Ubuntu does!! | 07:14 |
| suryasans | Yes, Intel and Nokia can push their own agenda, but with Canonical they can do that too. | 07:14 |
| koupsa | poor meego... users only see ubuntu and discut about deb vs rpm. long live meego | 07:14 |
| qgil_ | I'm a very happy Ubuntu user, having collaborated with Canonical since before Ubuntu even existed | 07:15 |
| qgil_ | suryasans: there is a difference. Intel and Nokia push their agenda with own developers working in concrete packages | 07:15 |
| suryasans | So, under one name is better, as ubuntu mobile, | 07:15 |
| qgil_ | Ubuntu mostly integrated. They have some developers, but mostly integrate the work others have done | 07:15 |
| qgil_ | which is a huge task, don't get me wrong | 07:16 |
| suryasans | and people is more familiar with one interface. | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ubuntu: http://xkcd.com/424/ and isn't it the mere truth?! | 07:16 |
| qgil_ | which "people", mobile users? | 07:16 |
| arjan_afk | suryasans: not everything needs to be one distro | 07:16 |
| arjan_afk | suryasans: and that's good ... | 07:16 |
| arjan_afk | to each their own | 07:16 |
| arjan_afk | their own market, their own focus etc etc | 07:16 |
| suryasans | Yes, but people will be confused. This is Linux, and that is linux too. | 07:16 |
| qgil_ | ..... | 07:17 |
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| Myrtti | oh come on. | 07:17 |
| koupsa | arjan_afk +1 | 07:17 |
| arjan_ | suryasans: by that reasoning ubuntu should not have existed, they shuold have used red hat instead | 07:17 |
| mook01 | thing is there is no current ubuntu distro suitable for phones, one that is designed to use mainly (multi-)touch input and copes with the small screen (and resolution) size well | 07:17 |
| mook01 | let's hope meego will help solve this problem | 07:17 |
| qgil_ | so how many mobile users are familiar with Ubuntu Mobile? (or Ubuntu vanilla, even) | 07:17 |
| Myrtti | most people wouldn't care if their computer ran on mice, cheese and crayons | 07:17 |
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| sivang | morning all | 07:18 |
| arjan_ | suryasans: it's very simple.. either meego is better, and then others can borrow | 07:18 |
| arjan_ | or it's not better, and then it does not matter ;) | 07:18 |
| sivang | Are there meeting minutes from last night's meeting? | 07:18 |
| sivang | I was about to attend it but was ill so missed it :/ | 07:18 |
| qgil_ | arjan_: yeah, at the end this is it | 07:18 |
| suryasans | Symbian is successful as mobile OS because many vendors are supporting it. | 07:18 |
| Myrtti | it doesn't matter to them if it runs on ms, apple, linux or cheesecakes either | 07:18 |
| arjan_ | not to be bad about it, but ubuntu is a project that focuses on integration, not so much tech development | 07:19 |
| arjan_ | intel and nokia both do a lot of tech development | 07:19 |
| arjan_ | and have been doing integration too | 07:19 |
| sivang | we should focus on intergration | 07:19 |
| arjan_ | so meego gets a lot of tech development AND integration now | 07:19 |
| suryasans | Abd android has fate like that. Meego is just another Linux distribution. | 07:19 |
| sivang | that what'll make us good competitors to iPhone os. | 07:19 |
| arjan_ | suryasans: meego is just another linux distribution. one with a LOT of developers behind it | 07:19 |
| arjan_ | look at all the upstream work intel and nokia both do | 07:20 |
| sivang | so, I didn't get any notifs from the Wiki, has anybody put meeting minutes somehwere? | 07:20 |
| mook01 | the move to put moblin and maemo is a great strategic move to counter android | 07:20 |
| qgil_ | suryasans: are you saying Android won't catch up as Linux mobile platform because of Ubuntu? | 07:20 |
| arjan_ | which means meego has a really good chance to get really good integration driving good tech development | 07:20 |
| mook01 | it will open meego up for much more platform, ie. developers | 07:20 |
| suryasans | But, meego must be handle by Canonical. Canonical has been proved to familiarize Linux to people. | 07:20 |
| mook01 | right now we only have a single expensive phone with maemo | 07:21 |
| arjan_ | suryasans: I fail to follow your logic | 07:21 |
| arjan_ | suryasans: why must that be ? | 07:21 |
| qgil_ | suryasans: just curious, what is your involvement in Linux / free software projects? | 07:21 |
| sivang | what's the connection between MeeGo and Canonical ? | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | none | 07:21 |
| sivang | (sorry to have dropped into the conversation like this) | 07:21 |
| mook01 | both are based on debian | 07:21 |
| arjan_ | mook01: eh? | 07:22 |
| sivang | mook01: but MeeGo uses RPM | 07:22 |
| sivang | mook01: and OBS | 07:22 |
| arjan_ | sivang: meego and canonical both are linux distributions | 07:22 |
| mook01 | maemo | 07:22 |
| sivang | so how come? | 07:22 |
| Myrtti | arjan_: eh? | 07:22 |
| arjan_ | sivang: and I'm sure that canonical will borrow a lot of the meego technology from us | 07:22 |
| sivang | arjan_: Canonical is a name of a company | 07:22 |
| arjan_ | and that's fine | 07:22 |
| mook01 | i still have the hope they don't switch to moblin rpms ;) | 07:22 |
| sivang | mook01: who Canonical LTD ? | 07:22 |
| mook01 | meego | 07:23 |
| arjan_ | mook01: packaging formats are like giftwrap ;) | 07:23 |
| arjan_ | you can argue for hours and hours about it | 07:23 |
| arjan_ | but at the end of the day, it's all about the present inside, not the giftwrap | 07:23 |
| sivang | right, after reading throughly the rationale behind RPMS, and knowing the current wonderful state of yum | 07:23 |
| sivang | there's no ral difference between .debs and .rpms | 07:23 |
| arjan_ | sivang: what makes you think meego is using yum?? | 07:23 |
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| arjan_ | but yeah the technical "just the format" does not really make a difference | 07:23 |
| qgil_ | is this evolving into a packaging debate? alright, see you later - I'll go write the minutes of the website meeting yesterday :) | 07:23 |
| sivang | arjan_: there's not a question, I can make it use yum if I want. | 07:23 |
| arjan_ | hehe | 07:24 |
| sivang | qgil_: Thanks Quim! | 07:24 |
| arjan_ | this is not about packaging. that's boring and done ;) | 07:24 |
| sivang | qgil_: have you discussed the working groups ? | 07:24 |
| sivang | thos damn flus... | 07:24 |
| sivang | I coughed like a swine yesterday so wasn't able to attend. | 07:24 |
| qgil_ | sivang: we discussed http://wiki.meego.com/Community_website_meeting_2010_2_24 - for the impatient there must be a log somewhere (I need to find it too) :9 | 07:25 |
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| sivang | qgil_: if you need help in secertarying, let me know :-p | 07:25 |
| mook01 | wasn't the first version of meego (aka maemo 6) still supposed to be deb? | 07:25 |
| sivang | mook01: AFAIK first version of MeeGo is not Maemo 6 | 07:25 |
| sivang | mook01: is this written somewhere? | 07:26 |
| mook01 | people who are used to ubuntu (being the most popular distro currently) will be able to jump on meego much easier if there are tools like apt-get etc. | 07:26 |
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| * qgil_ or someone must convert http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529073&postcount=14 in a wiki page mook01 | 07:27 | |
| sivang | mook01: there is more community development outside ubuntu , e.g. there are tons of apps that come as RPM and still don't have debs years after. | 07:27 |
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| qgil_ | one question: how many Ubuntu users are out there? | 07:27 |
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| sivang | qgil_: lots | 07:28 |
| sivang | qgil_: you want this as a bullet wiki page? | 07:28 |
| sivang | qgil_: I can do that. | 07:28 |
| qgil_ | sivang: appreciated | 07:28 |
| * sivang is on to it | 07:29 | |
| mook01 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distrowatch#Current_Distro_Statistics | 07:29 |
| qgil_ | "lots" is not helpful :) | 07:29 |
| koupsa | mook01 does not worry you will have just to click for install any app .deb or .rpm. | 07:29 |
| mook01 | somewhat indicative | 07:29 |
| sivang | qgil_: true :-) gartner probably have the rigth numbers | 07:29 |
| sivang | qgil_: should I start a FAQ entry on the wiki ? | 07:29 |
| suryasans | Go to distrowatch to see the distribution marketshare. | 07:29 |
| th0br0 | woah, you're still around qgil_! | 07:29 |
| mook01 | what i mean is, the more similar meego is to ubuntu the more people can take advantage of the community support | 07:30 |
| qgil_ | th0br0: bo "still" but "already" | 07:30 |
| th0br0 | ah ok qgil_ :) | 07:30 |
| mook01 | i found the ubuntuforums very useful for solving all those little problems | 07:30 |
| * arjan_ found the ubuntu forums mostly have all the same question, very little answers | 07:30 | |
| mook01 | better than support forums of any other distro i tried | 07:30 |
| koupsa | arjan_ +1 | 07:31 |
| qgil_ | mook01: that page doesn't give any meaningful number | 07:31 |
| mook01 | well, i'm talking about the "normal" end user | 07:31 |
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| mook01 | non techie one | 07:31 |
| sivang | arjan_: ++ | 07:31 |
| mook01 | they do have the same questions | 07:31 |
| qgil_ | mook01: the whole ubuntuforums, as useful as they are for desktop users, are basically useless for the users of a MeeGo based platform | 07:32 |
| qgil_ | and I'm not talking about rpms | 07:32 |
| mook01 | but they get their answers too | 07:32 |
| mook01 | which is one reason why it is so popular | 07:32 |
| arjan__ | desktop != phone | 07:32 |
| qgil_ | but about form factor, UI toolkit, apps... the things all users hit | 07:32 |
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| qgil_ | mook01: the "normal" end user probably has never put their hands in any Linux distro | 07:33 |
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| qgil_ | anyway, my point is | 07:33 |
| qgil_ | take the number of Ubuntu users (or the distro of your choice) | 07:33 |
| qgil_ | and then think of the numbers of the Harmattan device + whatever Intel/Atom partners have in mind | 07:34 |
| qgil_ | we don'0t know these numbers | 07:34 |
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| qgil_ | but believe me that it won't take long to match and probably pass them | 07:34 |
| * arjan__ suspects the biggest linux user today is wireless access points ;) | 07:34 | |
| qgil_ | and this is only for Nokia/Intel and for this year | 07:35 |
| arjan__ | qgil_: that's likely true even if you add them up rather than just pick one distro | 07:35 |
| qgil_ | add more partners and add a couple of years more | 07:35 |
| qgil_ | of course all this is only "plans" | 07:35 |
| qgil_ | but are the plans of Intel and Nokia nonetheless | 07:35 |
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| koupsa | good night all.. rpm vs deb is not a problem and i prefer a short optimized distr instead of ubuntu whos made a ugly coffe | 07:36 |
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| MiXu- | In my opinion, what's under the hood in fremantle is a mess. So it might actually be a good thing that they're changing to moblin core. | 07:37 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: do you mentioning an example? | 07:37 |
| qgil_ | mind | 07:37 |
| arjan__ | MiXu-: this "changing to moblin" isn't as much changing as converging | 07:37 |
| mook01 | can't give you accurate numbers, but check this: http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+opensuse|suse%2C+redhat|fedora%2C+maemo|meego|moblin&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | 07:37 |
| arjan__ | MiXu-: maemo and moblin share about 80% of the common core already | 07:37 |
| arjan__ | MiXu-: and the other 20% was relatively simple to converge | 07:38 |
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| mook01 | it shows number of search requests for the distros, which should indicate relative user numbers | 07:38 |
| arjan__ | (either it was a block that one of the two did not have, or it was where there was a clear better solution) | 07:38 |
| sivang | I just hope we don't get into the stressful mode of community as Ubuntu has. | 07:39 |
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| sivang | I felt much better getting to know Maemo community and I hope MeeGo will be similar. Predicted release cycles are nice, but you have to cut back features if you don't want to kill your developers, mainatian stability | 07:40 |
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| sivang | and be able to promote true community invovlement. | 07:40 |
| qgil_ | mook01: thanks that is an interesting link | 07:40 |
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| sivang | Ubuntu are slightly falling from there over the last 3 years.. | 07:40 |
| mook01 | feel free to add mint, debian etc. ;) | 07:40 |
| sivang | so 9.10 was a big disappointment for me in terms of stability. I prefer checking emails on N900 then on Evo on 9.10 | 07:41 |
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| qgil_ | mook01: let me put it in the real MeeGo context: http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+maemo|meego|moblin%2C+android%2C+iphone%2C+symbian&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | 07:41 |
| sivang | It just doesn't work. | 07:41 |
| sivang | Is there any part of meego/maeme that uses network-manger? | 07:41 |
| qgil_ | sivang: I'd expect http://connman.net/ | 07:42 |
| arjan__ | sivang: a few months ago nokia and intel announced already to work together on connman | 07:42 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: no concrete examples? | 07:42 |
| arjan__ | so yes meego uses connman | 07:42 |
| sivang | qgil_: yay, anything but network manager that preents you from connecting just right when you are in a meeting and trying to demonstrate your web app | 07:43 |
| arjan__ | sivang: hehe | 07:43 |
| mook01 | iphone is pushed by apples marketing dep | 07:43 |
| qgil_ | mook01: so what? | 07:43 |
| * sivang is pleased to see Nokia are dedicated to promoting Linux as a whole. | 07:43 | |
| mook01 | maemo on the other hand was not, because for nokia it is still somewhat in test mode | 07:44 |
| sivang | I keep getting mroe and more evidence for that :-) | 07:44 |
| mook01 | just trying to explain the iphone curve | 07:44 |
| sivang | mook01: iPhone succeeds due to that, but also because it is superbly polished. | 07:44 |
| sivang | anybody have an iPhone here? | 07:44 |
| qgil_ | mook01: you said those curves reflect users, and I kind of agree with that | 07:45 |
| MiXu- | qgil_: Well, take a look at the memory leaks and slowdowns on N900. That's pretty concrete. :) | 07:45 |
| qgil_ | although it's not that true since there are plenty more Symbian users, but still the Internet relevance is much lower | 07:45 |
| qgil_ | so you see how these numbers act :) | 07:45 |
| suryasans | Ubuntu is better because there are 13,5 million who use Ubuntu and its derivatives. | 07:45 |
| sivang | mook01: N900 is an amazing first time attempt to release it as it is made :) | 07:45 |
| sivang | suryasans: still so many bugs are left unanswered | 07:46 |
| sivang | suryasans: and so manh usability issues are unaddressed. | 07:46 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: that is not concrete :) where are the components originating those leaks? | 07:46 |
| mook01 | "more it's not necessarily "better", but it means good support | 07:46 |
| qgil_ | are they going to be substitued by Moblin comopnents? | 07:46 |
| qgil_ | do you know whether Moblin components are leak-free? | 07:46 |
| arjan__ | qgil_: they're likely all the same components anyway ; | 07:46 |
| MiXu- | No, I don't know. | 07:46 |
| suryasans | Dell uses it as official preinstalled linux distribution. | 07:47 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: so for anything coming from Hildon there is no Moblin substitute coming | 07:47 |
| arjan__ | suryasans: it seems you're repeating yourself a little in the last 5 minutes ;) | 07:47 |
| sivang | I don't really believe and leak free componenets, it's the memory management that has to be smart ;) | 07:47 |
| qgil_ | and for anything under Hildon, the chances of Moblin and Maemo using basically the same technologies are high | 07:47 |
| arjan__ | sivang: fixing leaks is important. which means having good tools to find leaks ;) | 07:47 |
| MiXu- | qgil_: Isn't hildon gonna be dropped anyway and replaced with directui? | 07:47 |
| arjan__ | and Qt is actually very nice | 07:47 |
| sivang | arjan__: there are :) | 07:47 |
| sivang | valgrind ? | 07:48 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: is dui a Moblin component? | 07:48 |
| mook01 | minor leaks become apparent very fast when there is not much RAM ;) | 07:48 |
| arjan__ | valgrind, memprof, etc | 07:48 |
| jsa_ | suaryasans: So ubuntu has 13,5 million users? Nokia sells more smartphones in a quarter. | 07:48 |
| mook01 | n900 has 256mb, dell netbooks have 1-2GB | 07:48 |
| sivang | jsa_: :) | 07:48 |
| suryasans | Yeah, most of them are Symbian. | 07:48 |
| MiXu- | qgil_: I don't know. But dui is not something that I'd say is "under the hood". | 07:48 |
| qgil_ | leaks become more evident in a small ARM device than in your PC/laptop distro | 07:48 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: dui comes from the Maemo/Nokia team as well | 07:49 |
| sivang | qgil_: do you think the response here is reasonable? I haven't tested on iPhone the same situation but my hunch is that this is handled gracefully | 07:49 |
| MiXu- | Yeah, I know they're developing it but wasn't sure whether Nokia built it from scratch | 07:49 |
| sivang | qgil_: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9089 | 07:49 |
| povbot | Bug 9089: Upgrading Maemo itself (nokia official recommended upgrade) failed with "no enough space" on target device. | 07:49 |
| qgil_ | I just wanted to dig in your sentence: "In my opinion, what's under the hood in fremantle is a mess. So it might actually be a good thing that they're changing to moblin core." | 07:49 |
| jsa_ | suryasans: Yes, but which brand do you think is more capable of bringing linux to mainstream, Nokia or Ubuntu? | 07:49 |
| sivang | jsa_: Nokia | 07:50 |
| * arjan__ likes his n900 ;) | 07:50 | |
| sivang | IMHO | 07:50 |
| suryasans | Ubuntu, because it is not nokia. | 07:50 |
| arjan__ | work (intel) had me try a few phones.. couldn't stand the others | 07:50 |
| mook01 | nokia, but only if they do the marketing right ;) | 07:50 |
| MiXu- | qgil_: Yes. But dui has nothing to do with fremantle. :) | 07:50 |
| qgil_ | MiXu-: nor with Moblin. btw http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework | 07:50 |
| sivang | Nokia turned Israel to a Nokia country, not because of marketing, because of device quality | 07:50 |
| suryasans | Nokia is only a hardware vendor. Android will tronch Nokia. | 07:50 |
| sivang | everybody knows Nokia boxes are toughest on the planet | 07:50 |
| suryasans | I'm using Nokia Symbian smartphone. | 07:51 |
| arjan__ | sivang: they Just Work | 07:51 |
| villemv | troll invasion? | 07:51 |
| sivang | arjan__: and that | 07:51 |
| MiXu- | I love my N900 as well. I'm not bashing the product. I'm just saying, having worked on fremantle that it's not all that pretty :) | 07:51 |
| arjan__ | villemv: seems so | 07:51 |
| suryasans | It is better to unified Meego and Ubuntu, to be avaiable for other hardware vendors. | 07:51 |
| sivang | MiXu-: I can assure you that we we dealth with importing packages from debian into ubuntu in october 2004, it was not pretty as well :-) | 07:52 |
| knowkeyah | as we're chatting about phones, has anyone tried/owned the 5800? thoughts? | 07:52 |
| sivang | suryasans: Ubuntu has too much overhead in humane counter huiristics, I wouldn't want that to drain my N900 battery | 07:52 |
| sivang | speaking about msg buses, too many deamons etc | 07:52 |
| suryasans | Mot people is familiar with Windows because every OEM is preinstalled the same package of windows. | 07:52 |
| MiXu- | knowkeyah: It was ok when it was released. Haven't tried it since, so can't say how it compares to modern stuff. | 07:52 |
| mook01 | n900 drop test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmSw5lHS1kA - oh yes he did! :) | 07:53 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: cool music machine, very very robust and *tough* | 07:53 |
| sivang | the only device that managed to eat some off nokia share in Israel is iPhone mainly due to its durability (not tough as a 5800, but tough enough) and uber polished OS, touch response and UI design. | 07:54 |
| sivang | we have to do something about turning control in Maemo. Like port it from S60 off the N97 Mini, it is superb there. | 07:55 |
| MiXu- | sivang: Ok. So maybe the ugliness is something that just belongs in the process ;) | 07:55 |
| sivang | MiXu-: not to mention security review......Geesh I don't want to recall that. | 07:56 |
| knowkeyah | "modern stuff", heh :) it's not that* old. i just put an order for the Nav Edition (the only difference i can tell is that there is a car mount and car charger, do you know any different, if you have that edition where you are?), and i picked it up because the pricepoint seemed right, US$249 here. i also won't be carrying a data plan at first and you can still do a few things with it apparently, i've read quite a few | 07:56 |
| qgil_ | has anybody kept the URL where yesterday's meego.com website IRC meeting log can be found? | 07:57 |
| eggonlea | http://meego.mkdir.name/logs/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-02-24-20.04.html | 07:57 |
| MiXu- | knowkeyah: Well it was released in 2008 H2 as far as I remember. I guess it depends on the definition whether it's old or not :) | 07:57 |
| knowkeyah | sivang, well, i can tell you that nokia has about a 6% market share stateside and i believe it is* because of marketing that they are not doing better (yes, in addition to the conflicting systems cdma/gsm and the ridiculous tethering that occurs when you sign up for a contract and phone here) | 07:58 |
| MiXu- | But the good thing about mature products is that they work :D | 07:58 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: USA? | 07:58 |
| knowkeyah | MiXu-, ok, the Navigation Edition came out in Nov 09, but the hardware and all else is the same i guess ? so you have a point.. | 07:59 |
| knowkeyah | sivang, right | 07:59 |
| sivang | MiXu-: right so wasupplicant works, network-manager on top of it no so much :) | 07:59 |
| qgil_ | thanks eggonlea ! | 07:59 |
| MiXu- | :) | 07:59 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: we've reached a heaven here. All is GSM , and MOC made pretty strict rules to let you move with your number from one operator to another, abiding them to strict rules of tranparency | 08:01 |
| MiXu- | knowkeyah: The 'remakes' usually come with minor software and 'looks' polishments :) | 08:01 |
| MiXu- | So it's basically the same | 08:01 |
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| qgil_ | impressed by the (autogenerated?) http://meego.mkdir.name/logs/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-02-24-20.04.html | 08:03 |
| sivang | qgil_: wow nice, autogenerated?? | 08:04 |
| qgil_ | sivang: I think so, there was a boot with some commands | 08:04 |
| qgil_ | like #topic etc, that tekojo was using as chair or the meeting | 08:05 |
| Myrtti | http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot ♥ | 08:05 |
| qgil_ | I see | 08:05 |
| sivang | ohh nice | 08:05 |
| Myrtti | Ubuntu uses the same thing | 08:05 |
| Myrtti | it's impressive | 08:05 |
| qgil_ | actually it is | 08:05 |
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| MiXu- | Niiice | 08:05 |
| Myrtti | oh, well, ubuntu uses a different one but it's nice nonetheless | 08:05 |
| sivang | hmm iwiki login is doing me the hell again.. | 08:06 |
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| Myrtti | I seriously want to amputate my head right now. Waking up to a splitting headache an hour before the alarm to face a stressful day isn't ideal | 08:07 |
| sivang | Myrtti: drink some galons of water | 08:07 |
| sivang | Myrtti: that'll solve that and calm you down, you're dyhadrated | 08:07 |
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| sivang | Myrtti: not coffee, water. | 08:07 |
| Myrtti | yeah, that's probably it, I was down with a stomach bug last week and I'm notoriously bad in hydrating myself | 08:07 |
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| * Tm_T huggles Myrtti | 08:08 | |
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| Myrtti | sivang: I've given up coffee almost totally after my gallbladder thing. It was nice to visit NRC with a gallstone attack underway | 08:08 |
| Myrtti | I laughed at it at the A&E later that day | 08:08 |
| knowkeyah | sivang, where is 'here'? i'm guessing somewhere in eur, so i know, i know :) endless numbers of us whine incessantly about the control the telecom comps wield and no standards are made in the direction because they all have powerful lobbyists in washington who buy influence. bah. :/ | 08:08 |
| knowkeyah | MiXu-, yes, i was familiar with the cosmetic change (color scheme) but was wondering about any software differences. guess i'll find out as soon as the delivery truck arrives.. :) | 08:09 |
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| sivang | knowkeyah: Israel, so a bit like EU but not really :) | 08:09 |
| knowkeyah | ah, how much of the market does nokia have there? | 08:09 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: let me fetch the numbers | 08:10 |
| knowkeyah | i was disappointed to learn that they are closing their two flagship stores here (in NYC and Chicago), their only bricks-and-mortar presences here as far as i know (they're also closing the London and have relocated the Rio de Janeiro, so perhaps something else is afoot) | 08:11 |
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| mook01 | perhaps they just don't want to fight the iphone in the US | 08:12 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: hmmmm odd | 08:12 |
| sivang | interestingly enough, when googling I found - | 08:12 |
| sivang | http://press.nokia.com/PR/199910/775679_5.html | 08:13 |
| sivang | checkpoint is 2 minutes walk from my apartment :) | 08:13 |
| MiXu- | knowkeyah: Probably no major stuff. | 08:13 |
| MiXu- | But it's a nice solid phone. The best selling Nokia ever, I think. | 08:13 |
| MiXu- | Or was it the best selling nokia smartphone. Can't remember. | 08:13 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: well, so Nokia was the leader for many years, but I read now that in 2008 Smasung sold 280,000 out of 1M sold in the cuountry | 08:14 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: so they became 2nd place | 08:14 |
| knowkeyah | i believe you're right, the products are good, but the problem nokia has stateside from my limited experience and from some extensive reading of u.s. product reviews revolve around poor oral and written support. | 08:14 |
| knowkeyah | by the oral support, i mean there is no one here who is familiar firsthand with the product to take calls or receive you to answer questions (other than the aforementioned flagship stores which are closing) | 08:15 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: ah we have specilazed support in each operator, | 08:15 |
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| sivang | knowkeyah: and Nokia have EuroComm http://www.euro-com.co.il/ that are highly trained on the operational technical aspect of every single model ever to come out | 08:16 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: we also have this for experimenation and fun - http://www.diskin.com/en/projects/index_02.html | 08:17 |
| sivang | which come to think of it, a bit comes as a surprise that Samsung surpassed them with saled. | 08:17 |
| knowkeyah | so all inquiries are routed to the philippines where nokia maintains it's call center and i just i had a laborious 1.5 hour session with them over the phone trying to get some answers to the most basic questions--they were courteous, earnest, just not well versed. they'd to look everything up and put me on hold for 10 minutes at a stretch (i was fooling around online which made it barely tolerable :)) | 08:17 |
| sivang | No other vendor has this sort of facilities here. | 08:17 |
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| knowkeyah | sivang, they need to do that here! :) | 08:17 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: ask them! :) | 08:18 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: they are well established here | 08:18 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: but israeli folks don't mind if the printed manual is missing - they'd just learn to use it to fullest on the fly | 08:18 |
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| sivang | knowkeyah: that's very different from US mentality I suppose | 08:19 |
| sivang | I think I'll go visit there today :) | 08:19 |
| sivang | I've never been to the innovatino center. | 08:19 |
| knowkeyah | the other thing is the written documention, i've read a number of complaints about the manuals which don't cover all the features, selling* features, for their products. and i've experienced the same. | 08:19 |
| knowkeyah | sivang, yeah, i don't mind that either, but some people don't want to fool around, they just want it to work.. | 08:20 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: well, from my experience , "self explantory UI" is a good definition for the interfaces of the Nokia device..UNlike Motoroal or samsung from experinece! :-) | 08:20 |
| knowkeyah | ..or have a good guide which explains how something works. or they may just ignore the features because they don't know about them and there's no documentation covering them. | 08:20 |
| sivang | and in N97 Mini, everything like jumps into your face so you can't miss it. | 08:21 |
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| sivang | Nokia was the first ever device company to start a market here, so I guess it is only natural. | 08:22 |
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| sivang | they have saved our basketball hall from becoming wreckage :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yad_Eliyahu_Arena | 08:24 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: ^^ | 08:24 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: that's my 'hood, ir is right across the street | 08:25 |
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| sivang | knowkeyah: http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/ANB2630.jpg | 08:28 |
| knowkeyah | the nokia arena, heh. yes, there's no such marketing effort here. too bad, because i think it could pay off. nokia is shortsighted if they are indeed pulling out all physical presence entirely.. | 08:30 |
| knowkeyah | the problem is that people here do not realize the value of buying an unlocked phone for certain* usages. they end up paying for the "free" or subsized phones through their data plan-contracts several times over.. | 08:32 |
| qgil_ | I'm also looking forward to see how the marketing departments from Intel, Nokia and more to come will work marketing MeeGo | 08:32 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: if you like Nokia want want that, why don't you write them? | 08:33 |
| qgil_ | these are powerful houses when pointing to the right directions | 08:33 |
| sivang | qgil_: true | 08:33 |
| sivang | knowkeyah: but I don't think they do anything out of shortsightness | 08:33 |
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| sivang | knowkeyah: seriously now. I am working with them now on a daily basis almost, and I can tell you they are open to suggestions, they are keen to learn where they think you could benefit them and are very responsive. | 08:34 |
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| sivang | ah, a firefox developer in DA HOUSE! ;) | 08:34 |
| sivang | what a nice cloak | 08:35 |
| knowkeyah | well, it's evident that by putting their call center in the philippines (about which many* u.s. nokia users have complained) and by closing their flagship stores they are counting the dimes rather than taking a long view approach. | 08:35 |
| arjan__ | knowkeyah: this isn't a nokia complain channel though ;) | 08:36 |
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| knowkeyah | regarding writing them, i actually thought about that, but i'll wait for the phone to arrive and use it first i believe :) | 08:36 |
| * arjan__ goes back to coding meego features ;-) | 08:36 | |
| sivang | knowkeyah: hehe, so now who's shortsighted? ;-D | 08:36 |
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| sivang | </kidding> | 08:36 |
| sivang | arjan__: what sort of features? | 08:36 |
| knowkeyah | ah, sorry, it was more of a wishlist | 08:36 |
| * knowkeyah gets off his soapbox | 08:36 | |
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| sivang | arjan__: do you have the sources? | 08:37 |
| arjan__ | sivang: right now I'm trying to code something that will make life a lot easier for the translation community | 08:37 |
| arjan__ | sivang: I work for Intel on moblin/meego | 08:37 |
| sivang | arjan__: ah lucky you! | 08:37 |
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| arjan__ | (I do a lot of work on power management, fast boot, but also many other pieces of the os; I'm sort of an architect in that sense) | 08:37 |
| knowkeyah | MiXu-, regarding your best-selling observation, certainly there is still sustained interest- http://www.gsmarena.com/stats.php3 | 08:38 |
| sivang | arjan__: there's nice work by Carlos from Canonical on rosetta for augmenting gettext, seen that? | 08:38 |
| Corsac | ali1234: 250 builds attempted, 19 failures | 08:38 |
| arjan__ | sivang: not yet | 08:38 |
| arjan__ | Corsac: not too bad | 08:38 |
| sivang | arjan__: do check, Carlos put his heart and soul into that. | 08:38 |
| sivang | arjan__: I set next to him in MOntreal watching that | 08:38 |
| sivang | arjan__: I didn't know what was more tiring, to watch him do it, or try help him with testing and qa :) | 08:39 |
| sivang | arjan__: and he's happy to help as well, if he is not overly busy | 08:39 |
| arjan__ | can you describe in a sentence or two what it does ? | 08:39 |
| sivang | arjan__: nobody can descrive in a sentence or two what any component of launchpad does :-p | 08:40 |
| sivang | arjan__: what's your email? | 08:40 |
| arjan__ | arjan@linux.intel.com | 08:40 |
| sivang | arjan__: expect a mail , I'll fetch you some info, could you email me with the set of problems you are trying to solve? | 08:40 |
| sivang | arjan__: launchpad is a devil's beast :-) | 08:40 |
| arjan__ | I'm not solving problems; more like experimenting with some tooling | 08:41 |
| sivang | arjan__: good, you in the right stage. | 08:41 |
| sivang | arjan__: so you're not sold yet :) | 08:41 |
| sivang | arjan__: (in the sense it is *huge*) | 08:41 |
| arjan__ | I have this idea, but I first need to see if I can get the various pieces of technology needed for it developed | 08:41 |
| arjan__ | and that's the fun part ;) | 08:41 |
| * arjan__ likes doing funky technology | 08:42 | |
| arjan__ | (like the 5 second boot stuff, that was fun to do) | 08:42 |
| sivang | arjan__: oh yeah, that was cool, can I get it to boot Fremantle on the N900 ? | 08:43 |
| arjan__ | hehe | 08:43 |
| * arjan__ spends a lot of time making meego boot fast ;) | 08:43 | |
| arjan__ | but not fremantle quite | 08:44 |
| sivang | arjan__: can we port this work ? | 08:44 |
| * arjan__ likes his n900 as a phone .. don't want to destroy it by hacking | 08:44 | |
| sivang | arjan__: what does it involve? | 08:44 |
| arjan__ | sivang: it's changes all over the map unfortunately | 08:44 |
| sivang | arjan__: you can backup and reflash if all else fails :) | 08:44 |
| arjan__ | there isn't such a thing as a fastboot patch | 08:44 |
| sivang | ah I see | 08:44 |
| arjan__ | it's lots of things everywhere | 08:44 |
| sivang | arjan__: what did you do with init/upstrea ? | 08:44 |
| sivang | upstart | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | arjan__: i have done really mean things to my n900 so far, not destroyed it :P | 08:44 |
| sivang | it is UNBREAKABLE :) | 08:45 |
| arjan__ | like the beginning of this week I spend 2 days fixing some bug in tracker/tumbler that costed 2 seconds boot time | 08:45 |
| arjan__ | sivang: we use init, not yet upstart; upstart would make it boot slower | 08:45 |
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| sivang | seriosuly now, it sustained 2 major falls now without a scratch | 08:45 |
| arjan__ | Stskeeps: but it's my only phone, I don't have a land line | 08:45 |
| sivang | arjan__: right, my feeling as well re upstart | 08:45 |
| arjan__ | Stskeeps: and while Intel gave me also some non-nokia phone to test and such.. I can't stand using it ;) | 08:45 |
| sivang | arjan__: upstrea is making my life miserable on 9.10 when I do Plone development | 08:45 |
| RST38h | Moo all, Stskeeps, arjan | 08:46 |
| arjan__ | evening | 08:46 |
| sivang | RST38h: what about me ? :) | 08:46 |
| * RST38h moos at sivang with passion | 08:46 | |
| * openstandards has just reading the old log from someone who thought ubuntu could basically do a better job than nokia/intel...thats seriously amusing | 08:47 | |
| sivang | ah, now I feel special! | 08:47 |
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| sivang | arjan__: https://launchpad.net/+tour/translation | 08:47 |
| sivang | arjan__: given the tooling in place, we could enable TTW translations | 08:48 |
| arjan__ | ttw? | 08:48 |
| RST38h | And Ubuntu cannot, for some reason? | 08:48 |
| sivang | arjan__: automtically merged intot he build process, all the bits are there | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | arjan__: yeah.. i nuked my fs the other day by accident. getting a n900 exclusively for devel now | 08:48 |
| sivang | arjan__: it even has plugin arch to replace deb with another packaging system, IIRC | 08:48 |
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| sivang | arjan__: but that'd you;d have to talk to Carlos | 08:48 |
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| sivang | arjan__: since it is all open soure now, you could take it , mangle it and run your own web translation server | 08:49 |
| openstandards | RST38h, cos nokia know their devices and nokia do more things to do with freedesktop standards such as dbus work and telepathy | 08:49 |
| RST38h | But does it mean Ubuntu can't do a thing? | 08:49 |
| openstandards | key parts that have ended up in ubuntu desktops anyway | 08:49 |
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| sivang | RST38h: he mentioned "better job" | 08:50 |
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| RST38h | Well, there are many factors that contribute to a better job, so I would not say that Ubuntu isn't worth a shit right away | 08:50 |
| * sivang scrambles at MW syntax for headlines | 08:50 | |
| sivang | = ..... = ? | 08:51 |
| sivang | like in moin, yes? | 08:51 |
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| * sivang ends up editing another page just to steal syntax | 08:51 | |
| openstandards | RST38h, that i understand which is why i didn't say that, ofcourse them using telepathy for empathy will help get rid of some bugs in the framework and various other frameworks | 08:52 |
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| openstandards | such as gstreamer | 08:52 |
| sivang | zalan: Ishtan Hosta | 08:52 |
| sivang | :) | 08:52 |
| openstandards | RST38h, a lot of ubuntu users forget how much work nokia does with linux is what i was implying | 08:53 |
| RST38h | Or never knew to begin with | 08:53 |
| openstandards | yeah exactly | 08:54 |
| sivang | right, that's a big problem | 08:54 |
| sivang | people get the impression that Ubuntu started the Linux world. | 08:54 |
| sivang | and alos forget about the guys from rpath | 08:55 |
| * arjan__ has many friends in rpath ;) | 08:55 | |
| sivang | arjan__: I met Michal and the other guy, that started the fedora project | 08:55 |
| openstandards | thats one distro i've never tried | 08:55 |
| sivang | arjan__: in UDS paris | 08:55 |
| arjan__ | sivang: Michael Johnson used to be my manager | 08:55 |
| arjan__ | he's a great guy | 08:56 |
| sivang | arjan__: he is! | 08:56 |
| sivang | arjan__: you are so lucky to have worked with him. | 08:56 |
| sivang | arjan__: they came to teach us some of their vast pacakging work and experience | 08:56 |
| sivang | arjan__: and Erik? know him ? | 08:56 |
| sivang | arjan__: Erik S. Troan | 08:56 |
| arjan__ | yeah I know Eric | 08:56 |
| openstandards | do you think we'll ever have a grid overlay on the platform so we can position things properly | 08:57 |
| sivang | arjan__: they both were invited to paris since then Ubuntu started co-operating with Intel, Max from intel was there as well | 08:57 |
| arjan__ | sivang: sounds like we know a bunch of people in common :) | 08:59 |
| sivang | arjan__: you know Max? | 09:00 |
| sivang | arjan__: I forgot his last name, he is a former Israeli | 09:00 |
| arjan__ | of course | 09:00 |
| arjan__ | he used to be our ubuntu contact person | 09:00 |
| sivang | arjan__: after breaking my teeth for like the whole week, I met him and he asked if I Knew hebrew | 09:00 |
| arjan__ | I think he moved to some other thing lately though | 09:00 |
| sivang | arjan__: so we started talking hebrew and my muscles started to releieve ! :)( | 09:00 |
| sivang | arjan__: he has? that's a shame | 09:00 |
| sivang | arjan__: he looked as if he knew exactly what to do to push things with Ubnutu | 09:01 |
| jacquesdupontd | hey guys | 09:01 |
| sivang | arjan__: have you been to the haifa R&D ? | 09:01 |
| arjan__ | nope not yet | 09:01 |
| arjan__ | most of the time our israel cpu guys come to me ;) | 09:01 |
| sivang | arjan__: where Dothan was created? :) | 09:01 |
| sivang | arjan__: hehe | 09:02 |
| sivang | arjan__: good for them | 09:02 |
| jacquesdupontd | i m gonna go crazy i still didn't received my touch screen i can't get further for making my tablet | 09:02 |
| sivang | I need to get a real laptop, HP Compaq mini 311c stops my creativity and productivness | 09:03 |
| sivang | or get a Nokia netbook, the kbd and touchpad are superb | 09:03 |
| sivang | such a shame , that on such a wonderful platfrom like the 311c HP put such a lousy kbd touchpad combi. | 09:04 |
| sivang | I took it because it supports Cuda | 09:04 |
| sivang | and can be oerated with UDA of nvidia | 09:04 |
| arjan__ | cuda on a laptop? | 09:05 |
| arjan__ | or even netbook | 09:05 |
| sivang | netbook | 09:05 |
| sivang | yes | 09:05 |
| arjan__ | that is .. interesting concept | 09:05 |
| sivang | farout isn't it? | 09:05 |
| sivang | it is an ION | 09:05 |
| sivang | machine | 09:05 |
| arjan__ | I wouldn't think you'd use a netbook for heavy cuda able compute tasks | 09:05 |
| arjan__ | but maybe you do | 09:05 |
| sivang | but drivers for linnux are good as non existant last time I checked | 09:05 |
| sivang | arjan__: the GPU is a monster | 09:05 |
| sivang | arjan__: Atom is a midget ;) | 09:05 |
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| sivang | so, you catch the drift... | 09:05 |
| sivang | and the GPU is mostly idle | 09:06 |
| arjan__ | yeah.. it's a bit unbalanced system in that sense :) | 09:06 |
| sivang | they stopped selling it here after I bought it | 09:06 |
| sivang | and was the only Cuda/ION based machine HP Comapq have marketted here. | 09:06 |
| sivang | I need to mangle the input driver in linux to have the touchpad auto-lock when the keyboard is used | 09:06 |
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| sivang | arjan__: what's the state of GMA4500 support in Linux ? | 09:07 |
| arjan__ | 4500 ? | 09:07 |
| arjan__ | works fine | 09:07 |
| sivang | prop. driver? | 09:07 |
| arjan__ | 4500 ? | 09:07 |
| arjan__ | no | 09:07 |
| sivang | ubuntu hardware manger finds it and love it? | 09:07 |
| arjan__ | gma500 is the powervr one | 09:07 |
| sivang | ah right | 09:07 |
| sivang | PowerVR...brrr | 09:07 |
| sivang | :) | 09:07 |
| arjan__ | 4500 is the 965 generation | 09:07 |
| sivang | cool | 09:08 |
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| muep | for 4500, you probably don't even need the hardware manager program | 09:08 |
| sivang | there's a GMA4500 machine I am going to get as a real laptop | 09:08 |
| sivang | muep: mainline ? | 09:08 |
| arjan__ | for 4500.. all you need is new enough bits | 09:08 |
| sivang | hehe | 09:08 |
| sivang | okay, great. | 09:08 |
| muep | AFAIK the manager is just for getting proprietary drivers | 09:08 |
| sivang | yes, that's why I asked if it is mainline and open | 09:09 |
| sivang | so I'll go get some food, see you guys later | 09:09 |
| * sivang will finished the Maemo 6 / MeeGo relatiunoshyip doc when he gets proper lkeyboard | 09:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | s/finished/finish/ | 09:13 |
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| Corsac | arjan__: though there are like 1000+ packages to build so I have quite some more to do :) | 09:19 |
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| arjan__ | Corsac: you don't have to tell me it takes a while to build the whole thing ;) | 09:20 |
| Corsac | yeah but I hope you don't build it on a core2duo? | 09:20 |
| Corsac | with a 5400rpm hard drive | 09:20 |
| arjan__ | no we have a farm of nehalem boxes :) | 09:21 |
| Corsac | I'm surprised you dont use amd cpus :) | 09:21 |
| arjan__ | for some magic reason it's easier to get core i7's than AMD :) | 09:21 |
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| Corsac | tst-tables.sh: line 260: /usr/bin/zsh: No such file or directory | 09:24 |
| Corsac | hmhm, why is glibc trying to use zsh? | 09:25 |
| Corsac | is $SHELL passed to the underlying processes? | 09:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | Corsac: environment variables are typically inherited ... | 09:33 |
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| villemv | you should use /bin/sh to run scripts | 09:41 |
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| villemv | (instead of using "current shell", which may be totally unable to run any scripts) | 09:41 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp: but I would have expected a build system like mock to cleanup the environment | 09:58 |
| Corsac | villemv: and I do use /bin/sh, what's not is the glibc build | 09:58 |
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| Corsac | which I find a bit weird | 09:58 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 09:59 | |
| Corsac | in the end, it worked though | 09:59 |
| Corsac | INFO: Done(sources/glibc-2.9-5.1.moblin2.src.rpm) Config(moblin) 53 minutes 53 seconds | 09:59 |
| villemv | Corsac: sounds like a packaging mistake... | 09:59 |
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| slaine_ | morning all | 10:19 |
| lbt | o/ | 10:19 |
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| slaine_ | hmmm, coffee | 10:34 |
| tybollt | yeah, that's a good idea | 10:34 |
| niqt | no cappucino | 10:34 |
| tybollt | coffee is like saying programming, it can be in sh, perl or C | 10:35 |
| tybollt | it can be cappucino, machiato, au lait, turkish or just plain ol cup of joe | 10:36 |
| Myrtti | tea ♥ | 10:36 |
| * leinir sips tea "Mmm... PG-tips" :) | 10:36 | |
| slaine_ | tybollt: yeah, but unlike programming, it's all good ;) | 10:37 |
| Blice | Today I'm happy. Fixed a CSS problem I've had for like a month :] | 10:37 |
| MiXu- | At the office it means 'cup of joe', or one of those coffe-like liquids that you get from those machines. | 10:37 |
| MiXu- | ewh | 10:37 |
| crashanddie | slaine_: nope, starbucks and generally american coffee is horrendous | 10:37 |
| MiXu- | Starbucks isn | 10:37 |
| AVee | No it isn't, anything poluted with milk is wrong for starters... | 10:37 |
| MiXu- | isn't bad | 10:37 |
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| Myrtti | crashanddie: the Finnish coffees aren't too good either | 10:37 |
| slaine_ | I'm drinking an americano made from starbucks coffee | 10:38 |
| jku | slaine_, I'm not sure if you tasted the stuff you normally get in e.g. Helsinki... | 10:38 |
| jku | Myrtti, exactly :) | 10:38 |
| slaine_ | jku, not been there | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | i always have to kick a severe caffeine addiction after my helsinki visits | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:38 |
| MiXu- | Finnish "office poison" gets your stomach going :D | 10:38 |
| Myrtti | that's a whole another chapter | 10:38 |
| crashanddie | yeah, americans who have never left the country aren't allowed to say if coffee is "always good"... They probably haven't tasted proper coffee | 10:38 |
| Blice | I've been drinking jamaica blue mountain lately | 10:38 |
| jku | show off | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | my mum threw away a package of Parisian blend because it tasted horrible to her ;________; | 10:39 |
| Blice | I also own a coffee roaster, so I roast my own beans. | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | s/blend/blend\/roast/ | 10:39 |
| MiXu- | I have this Moka pot. <3 | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | I've got two :-D | 10:39 |
| MiXu- | Me too actually | 10:39 |
| Blice | :D | 10:39 |
| crashanddie | Blice: you roast your own beans? | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | one here in Finland, a pink Typhoon and one proper one back at home in UK | 10:40 |
| slaine_ | Hmmmm, coffee | 10:40 |
| mzanetti | lol! Everytime I stop by on this channel you guys are talking about coffee... Perhaps the first MeeGo device should include a coffee machine to-go! | 10:40 |
| Blice | crashanddie: Yep... Can't trust other roasters. | 10:40 |
| Blice | A lot of them burn their beans (Starbucks...) | 10:40 |
| crashanddie | Blice: no... i meant... _your_ beans | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | that must hurt | 10:41 |
| Blice | ..lol | 10:41 |
| crysaz | that reminds me: I should make some | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | IRC, the only place where everyone is an expert about everything | 10:41 |
| Myrtti | but I've given up drinking coffee almost totally, my blood pressure and stomach can't take it anymore | 10:41 |
| Corsac | uh | 10:41 |
| Corsac | why is there gnome-panel in moblin? | 10:41 |
| MiXu- | I've cut my consumption to 2-3 cups a day | 10:42 |
| tybollt | Myrtti: finish coffee is ok! | 10:42 |
| Myrtti | tybollt: it's shite! | 10:42 |
| Blice | crashanddie: linux developers, the only people who are experts about everything | 10:42 |
| Blice | amirite | 10:42 |
| tybollt | Myrtti: I will have no FUD campaign against finish coffee! ;-) | 10:42 |
| crashanddie | Blice: my boss is far from a linux dev, yet he's always right about everything] | 10:42 |
| Myrtti | Blice: I was about to say I don't know anything and then I remembered I don't really develop anything apart from my email filters | 10:42 |
| Myrtti | and knitting socks | 10:42 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: that's implied by the word "boss" mate. | 10:43 |
| Blice | I don't know how to knit. It is on my things-to-learn list though | 10:43 |
| Corsac | you develop “knitting socks”? | 10:43 |
| Corsac | do they have hands then? | 10:43 |
| crashanddie | Blice: we actually have a form in all of our offices worldwide, where we write down the date, person who heard and reason of when the boss said he was wrong (he has to admit it) | 10:43 |
| Blice | haha | 10:43 |
| Blice | I'm assuming he isn't a project manager | 10:43 |
| tybollt | Myrtti: anyway buy some of that jamaican blue stuff... that's the best I had thus far. | 10:43 |
| crashanddie | when we reach 10 worldwide, he buys dinner | 10:43 |
| Blice | a projact manager that knows anything about anything is extremily rare | 10:43 |
| Blice | tybollt: That's what I'm drinking. It's amazing :0 | 10:44 |
| crashanddie | Blice: it's rare for a project manager to have anyone under them | 10:44 |
| tybollt | Blice: It's amazingly expesnive | 10:44 |
| Corsac | tybollt: blue mountain? | 10:44 |
| Myrtti | I like my Aussie Blue Mountain blend shampoo and conditioner... | 10:45 |
| crashanddie | Blice: project manager really only means: "I'm too shit on the technical side, and can't cut it as a salesman, nor can I manage people directly, what else besides Project Manager can I be?" | 10:45 |
| Myrtti | *g* | 10:45 |
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| villemv | crashanddie: I thought that was marketing? | 10:45 |
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| tybollt | Corsac: beleve that is the name yeah | 10:45 |
| villemv | (according to some old dilbert wisdom) | 10:45 |
| crysaz | crashanddie: you can be QA dude | 10:45 |
| tybollt | Myrtti: that's... awkward - coffee scented shampoo? >:) | 10:46 |
| Myrtti | tybollt: eucalyptus | 10:46 |
| tybollt | heh | 10:46 |
| Myrtti | http://www.superdrug.com/invt/355739 ♥ | 10:46 |
| Myrtti | that price makes me weep | 10:46 |
| Myrtti | they're about 10€ in finland | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | crysaz: I wasn't talking about myself, thank you very much ;) | 10:47 |
| tybollt | that's funny, reminds me of Koalas... those cute fuzzy little teddybears... that aren't so fricken innocent they all had us believe :) | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | crysaz: note the quotes | 10:47 |
| crysaz | crashanddie: ouh. I was playing along. didn't mean you should :) | 10:48 |
| crashanddie | As much as I respect the guys in QA for going through with the testing of our products | 10:48 |
| crashanddie | I wouldn't be in their shoes for one day | 10:49 |
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| crashanddie | woudln't want | 10:49 |
| crashanddie | engrish fail | 10:49 |
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| Blice | enough talking about knitting socks and shampoo, people will think meego is girly | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | and why can't it be? :P | 10:50 |
| leinir | What's so wrong with girly? :) | 10:50 |
| tybollt | anyway I have been looking for that coffe that is shit out by monkeys in borneo or something... supposed to be even better than jamaican blue mountain | 10:51 |
| tybollt | but never found it | 10:51 |
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| tybollt | Blice: I'll have you know, son, my meego will be so tainted by hello kitty, girly will be the understatement of a lifetime :P | 10:51 |
| leinir | http://www.cornify.com/ <-- there you go, Blice ;) | 10:51 |
| crashanddie | tybollt: QI much? | 10:52 |
| crashanddie | anyway, time for sushi, later | 10:52 |
| benbrown | tybollt: http://www.coffee-beans-direct.com/product_info.php?products_id=680 | 10:53 |
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| gouverneur | Blice: it isnt, what a show stopper ;-) | 11:18 |
| gouverneur | tybollt: where do you live? I got my own plant in Togo... BUT 2 days ago my machine drowned the floor, waiting now for gaskets and drinking co2go from the bakery :( | 11:20 |
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| tybollt | gouverneur: your own plant of what? | 11:21 |
| gouverneur | tybollt: coffee | 11:21 |
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| tybollt | togo, that'd be africa... AFAIU Africa grow a lot of Robusta beans... not interested. :-( | 11:22 |
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| gouverneur | tybollt: no its arabica | 11:26 |
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| rzr | hi, will meego target only omap4 or 3+ ? | 11:34 |
| rzr | i guess this has been asked zillion times | 11:34 |
| slaine_ | no details, only speculation | 11:36 |
| rzr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=545537#post545537 | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: currently, armv5te it looks like | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | no certain public info | 11:39 |
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| suryasans | This is a lesson from Windows Mobile. http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3749&p=2 | 11:49 |
| suryasans | Microsoft seems to have learned from Windows Mobile's heritage, and it is really reflected in their decision to disallow skinning by third parties. In the past, allowing hardware manufacturers to create new skins and user experiences atop the platform ultimately proved to be a double-edged sword. On one side, manufacturers like HTC were able to greatly enhance Windows Mobile functionality with skins like TouchFLO 3D and HTC Sense, as well as third party | 11:50 |
| suryasans | Arguably, this is the biggest departure of Phone 7 Series from Windows Mobile. No longer will manufacturers be able to differentiate themselves with both software and hardware. Instead, they will have to adhere to a common template of minimum hardware requirements. | 11:50 |
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| gouverneur | who cares? | 12:08 |
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| Myrtti | gouverneur: were you here when he ranted about "MeeGo is shite, we should just work on Ubuntu" thing? | 12:10 |
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| gouverneur | Myrtti: nope... but MeeGo is nothing yet, at least for me, and still, this name kind of bothers me | 12:11 |
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| benbrown | The name's not great, but I'm more concerned with how well it works rather than what it's called | 12:12 |
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| sivang | how do I creat a new blog post in my champion blog? | 12:37 |
| sivang | I can't find where to enter the blog admin web ui | 12:38 |
| sivang | from the forum login | 12:38 |
| sivang | anybody care to handhold? :) | 12:38 |
| sivang | oh well, that's airnt a nokia channel | 12:39 |
| * sivang tries to join #nokia | 12:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: fwiw, i never blogged as a champion :) | 12:40 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: hehe | 12:41 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: but how do I login and post? :) | 12:41 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: why not BTW? | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | no interest | 12:43 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: I see. ANyway, you have an idea who the blog interface can be reached? | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i think the first time i logged in was fairly near the end so i could get an n810 for a friend (my entry reward) | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | nope :) | 12:44 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: okay. How you anyway? How's your part of the world? | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | interesting | 12:44 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: Do you know if in San Fran there'd a Nokia based development sprint ? | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | 'development sprint'? | 12:45 |
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| * timeless_mbp knows virtually nothing about nokia in sf | 12:45 | |
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| slaine_ | Where new maemo releases made available for previous generation hardware ? | 12:46 |
| slaine_ | Or, where you locked into updates only for a particular os release ? | 12:46 |
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| Myrtti | there is a 2008HE for 770, but it wasn't totally usable | 12:47 |
| Myrtti | some glitches were present | 12:47 |
| Myrtti | (HE for hackers edition) | 12:47 |
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| slaine_ | did they ever sort video playback on the 770 ? | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | slaine_: N800 has OS2007 and OS2008, N810 had OS2008 and Diablo, i think | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | depending on who you ask | 12:48 |
| slaine_ | I seem to recall that it was just that little bit underpowered for smooth video playback | 12:48 |
| slaine_ | Stskeeps: what's Diablo, Maemo5 ? | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | maemo4.1.2 | 12:48 |
| bva | Hi guys; I missed the meeting yesterday but I would love to join in Forum and Wiki. Can I add myself in the list? | 12:49 |
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| * Stskeeps should read the logs from last night's meeting | 13:28 | |
| * w00t also | 13:28 | |
| * bva started but gave up after 3 lines :s | 13:28 | |
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| niqt | hi search link to pdf posted in the meeting | 13:33 |
| niqt | on maemo-daemons | 13:33 |
| tekojo | bva please add yourself to the wiki page :) | 13:34 |
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| tekojo | all participation is welcome | 13:34 |
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| bva | and the forum? | 13:34 |
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| * bva added himself to the list (Wiki part) of the meeting | 13:38 | |
| bva | tekojo: whats your username in the page? | 13:38 |
| tekojo | tekojo | 13:39 |
| tekojo | :) | 13:39 |
| bva | you did'nt volunteer? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_website_meeting_2010_2_24#List_of_services_on_MeeGo.com | 13:40 |
| tekojo | I didn't put myself in the streams specifically, I'll just be around there everywhere | 13:40 |
| tekojo | I work for Nokia, so I get to do this full time :) | 13:40 |
| bva | lucky you :) | 13:40 |
| bva | doesn't nokia need a noob like me? | 13:41 |
| tekojo | but I should add myself there in what I'm most interested in | 13:41 |
| Myrtti | *chuckle* | 13:41 |
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| bva | Im good at serving coffee :) | 13:41 |
| bva | anyway getting food brb | 13:41 |
| tekojo | bva :D | 13:41 |
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| X-Fade | bva: Serving coffee in a globally distributed community is quite a challenge :) | 13:42 |
| X-Fade | Hmm just missed. | 13:42 |
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| VDVsx | here's my coffee !!! | 13:48 |
| VDVsx | :D | 13:48 |
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| crashanddie | X-Fade: HTCPCP to the rescue | 14:06 |
| crashanddie | http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Sure, but does that also fetch the supplies etc? | 14:07 |
| bva | crashanddie: Should I use the alcohol parameter whisky extensively? | 14:10 |
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| bva | do you know more of those "easter eggs"? | 14:15 |
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| crashanddie | there's a few extra | 14:24 |
| bva | is there a painintheassboss one? | 14:25 |
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| crashanddie | bva: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5513 | 14:25 |
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| bva | we will run out by the end of September this year. :D | 14:26 |
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| tekojo | ping townxelliot | 14:27 |
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| crashanddie | http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc439 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149 (this one is good), http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1607 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1925 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2100 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3091 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4824 | 14:28 |
| crashanddie | those are the only ones I can remember/google off hand | 14:28 |
| crashanddie | there's a bunch more | 14:28 |
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| bva | I like the last one :D | 14:39 |
| bva | if he draws the signals --> watch error | 14:39 |
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| pinchartl | hi | 15:00 |
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| Stskeeps | what kernel is in use in moblin at the moment btw? | 15:02 |
| villemv | linux | 15:04 |
| villemv | *drumroll( | 15:04 |
| inz | villemv, going for the "most useless reply of the week"? | 15:05 |
| villemv | pretty much | 15:05 |
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| Stskeeps | er, version | 15:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:05 |
| damien_l | Stskeeps: 2.6.33 | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:06 |
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| qgil | can you connect to http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-community? | 15:09 |
| qgil | I was thinking that it was a silent morning in MeeGo mailing lists, but perhaps it's the server down... | 15:09 |
| X-Fade | qgil: No. waiting. | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Me too. | 15:10 |
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| qgil | have you received an email from me at meego-community about Events? | 15:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-community | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | qgil: No. | 15:10 |
| qgil | ah yes, forgot that one GeneralAntilles :) | 15:10 |
| qgil | ok | 15:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing since about 8 PM local yesterday. | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | qgil: I guess we will have to wait until the admin wakes up. | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's going to be nice having admins in two faraway timezones once we have admins in two faraway timezones. ;) | 15:11 |
| tekojo | mailed mshaver just a while back when I realised it's down | 15:11 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that will help. | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: At least 16 hours of support ;) | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: x-fade for european dayshift, intel for european nightshift? ;) | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | Need someone from the Brisbane office then ;) | 15:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | We need a troll admin to level things out. | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I nominate crashanddie. ;) | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | No, that is a really troll, not a Troll ;) | 15:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 15:13 |
| qgil | MeeGo will have time based releases and (simplifying) vendors planning to use MeeGo will define their products and their work around the features expected in a release. | 15:14 |
| qgil | This means that we need to have a roadmap showing committed features for a specific release, and a way to see the specifications agreed about a feature and eventually the current development status. | 15:14 |
| qgil | okia teams use a (commercial) tool for this. Not an option in MeeGo. There is https://launchpad.net/+tour/feature-tracking but I have but afaik is integral part of Launchpad. | 15:14 |
| qgil | Do you have any recommendation? Any experience with an online tool serving this purpose? | 15:14 |
| qgil | (that was my email sent to meego-community a while ago) ;) | 15:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Um, bugzilla? | 15:15 |
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| Stskeeps | my first thought is trac, even though it is not really sane | 15:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or it that too specific? | 15:15 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm don't know of anything that detailed. | 15:15 |
| qgil | GeneralAntilles: bugzilla doesn't allow to edit a first post, so things get complicated | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | qgil: If that is the only problem, that can be 'fixed'. | 15:16 |
| X-Fade | qgil: But I guess that feature tracking is a lot more. | 15:16 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: https://features.opensuse.org/ | 15:18 |
| clintcan | Hi there. | 15:18 |
| X-Fade | openFATE | 15:18 |
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| X-Fade | Example of feature: https://features.opensuse.org/120340 | 15:19 |
| qgil | X-Fade: nice one and actually I think someone had mentioned it already... | 15:19 |
| qgil | you can also vote features and handle them before being committed | 15:20 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: It is a bit of brainstorm added ;) | 15:20 |
| qgil | yes, I remember someone recommending it somewhere while we were discussing Brainstorm for MeeGo | 15:20 |
| * w00t finally caught up on everything except last night's meeting | 15:21 | |
| X-Fade | Looks interesting at least. | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: MWKN really needs to exist for MeeGo ÆP | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:21 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: more like, for my entire life | 15:21 |
| w00t | I know I have issues when it takes me a full morning to catch up on a day's absense | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | qgil: This way you can also track feature requests, so bugzilla doesn't need to host them. | 15:22 |
| qgil | sounds definitely good | 15:22 |
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| * qgil goes to read | 15:23 | |
| X-Fade | Can't find what it runs on though. | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | or the source? | 15:25 |
| X-Fade | Nope. | 15:25 |
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| w00t | I'm sure fate was discussed by some KDE people some months ago.. | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | ah, found it | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | http://gitorious.org/opensuse/openfate/ | 15:26 |
| X-Fade | Was looking on ohloh ;) | 15:26 |
| qgil | so... is it the frontend of a Novell-only engine, or can you get the whole fate & openfate? | 15:26 |
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| X-Fade | Yes, basically. | 15:27 |
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| w00t | X-Fade: yes to *which*? | 15:27 |
| X-Fade | Looks like tied into Novell things like Hermes. | 15:27 |
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| qgil | are you sure this really exists? | 15:28 |
| qgil | I can't find Fate or OpenFate in Wikipedia... ;) | 15:28 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: http://gitorious.org/opensuse/openfate/trees/master | 15:28 |
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| X-Fade | qgil: The code is there. | 15:28 |
| joppu | Does the MeeGo user interface allow themeing? Are the desktop and mobile user interface completely seperate? | 15:28 |
| X-Fade | qgil: But doesn't seem to be running on it's own. | 15:29 |
| qgil | There is a language there where they use "OpenFate" as "frontend of Fate", but it's unclear what the Fate is | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: it was mentioned a frontend to novells | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | 's linux business system | 15:30 |
| w00t | http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Sxkeeper | 15:31 |
| FunkyPenguin | qgil, Fate is/was Novell/SUSE's old feature tracker | 15:31 |
| FunkyPenguin | OpenFate was the result of opening it up | 15:31 |
| X-Fade | Or open is there result of the name-> openSuse. | 15:32 |
| X-Fade | Anyway, it seems to be a ruby app. | 15:33 |
| qgil | FunkyPenguin: thanks! so with openFate available you don't need any additional "engine" underneath? | 15:33 |
| FunkyPenguin | X-Fade, no open as in not a closed app, and accessible to all memebers of the community :) | 15:33 |
| X-Fade | FunkyPenguin: Ah ;) | 15:33 |
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| FunkyPenguin | qgil, um not 100% sure - im trying to get someone from the Open Fate team to pop in and answer your questions | 15:34 |
| FunkyPenguin | either that or you could pop into #opensuse-project and ask in there | 15:34 |
| X-Fade | Code looks clean at least. | 15:35 |
| qgil | FunkyPenguin: appreciated, I was looking the git log, they are actually working on it :) | 15:35 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders when tsg meetings start | 15:40 | |
| rzr | if it matters : quake3 also on nexus : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/301978/P1080279.MOV | 15:42 |
| tekojo | Stskeeps tsg? | 15:42 |
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| Stskeeps | tekojo: technical steering sgroup, | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | -s | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | (as noted in http://meego.com/about/governance) | 15:43 |
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| FunkyPenguin | qgil, glad you got some answers :) | 15:49 |
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| hrw | someone has a log from #meego-meeting? | 15:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I'd love to get something meaningful out of them. . . . | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: well, it was more in term of getting TSG meetings set up so they can rubberstamp things on a regular basis to get things running | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | as witnessed by reggie's problem | 15:53 |
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| Stskeeps | at least the roles are slowly starting to pop out into the open | 15:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, look at that! I can't edit the wiki . . . again. | 15:57 |
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| qgil | FunkyPenguin: that was fast, thanks for the connections | 15:58 |
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| FunkyPenguin | qgil, always glad to help out :) | 16:00 |
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| bva | hrw: You can find it on the wiki -> http://wiki.meego.com/Community_website_meeting_2010_2_24 | 16:18 |
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| hrw | gracias | 16:20 |
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| CosmoHill | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODAxMA | 16:42 |
| CosmoHill | seems interesting | 16:42 |
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| madian | I have a question | 16:44 |
| madian | what about my new n900 | 16:44 |
| * CosmoHill shurgs | 16:45 | |
| Stskeeps | it still keeps on working | 16:45 |
| CosmoHill | there are other people with N900s or thinking of buying them | 16:45 |
| madian | will it be supported | 16:46 |
| CosmoHill | you mean, will meego run on the nokia n900? | 16:46 |
| madian | yes | 16:46 |
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| Stskeeps | madian: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 might be educational | 16:47 |
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| slaine_ | Was Harmattan going to run on the n900 ? | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | slaine_: no official promise | 16:47 |
| slaine_ | like previous os releases so | 16:48 |
| CosmoHill | madian: http://wiki.meego.com/Meego_IRC | 16:48 |
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| CosmoHill | there is some stuff about the n900 on there | 16:48 |
| bva | lol Stskeeps -> "For those too damn lazy to read the whole post, please read: You're in good hands. Stop worrying. Your N900 won't break when Maemo6 or MeeGo comes out, or be less useful. If you want details, read the post." | 16:49 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo gcobb | 16:50 |
| gcobb | Hi keepsie | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | how goes? | 16:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey-ho, gcobb. | 16:52 |
| gcobb | mailing list seems a bit quiet today -- or is it just me? | 16:52 |
| RST38h | bva: Just to clarify: are we allowed visits by the Red Cross inspectors? | 16:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | gcobb, it's down. | 16:52 |
| gcobb | I guess my moans yesterday broke it | 16:52 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: i like your sig "maemo.org distmaster & Mer lead developer, Join the MeeGo project!, I am not worried about the future of the N900 and neither should you be" | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | gcobb: it's obviously censorship to bring down community affecting anything ;) | 16:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, no whining or we turn off the mail server! | 16:54 |
| madian | thanks Stskeeps | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: you know, that would actually be useful at times | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | just to calm people down a bit | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | and incite the conspiracy theorists. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Engadget practices that. | 16:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "Hey, you don't want to stop bitching about us injecting the iPhone into every story? We'll just turn the comments off, then!" | 16:56 |
| bergie | regarding that, it seems MeeGo is the new iPhone on Planet Maemo... post about it and be certain about thumbs down :-P | 16:58 |
| tybollt | CosmoHill: As to what stskeeps said himself the other day... he's paid not to worry ;-P | 16:58 |
| tybollt | I can readily state that - you pay me and I'll not worry about $concern | 16:59 |
| tybollt | ;) | 16:59 |
| CosmoHill | rofl | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: nah, as i said, i didn't write it on paid time and it reflects my own opinions | 17:00 |
| CosmoHill | the Iphone allowing you to do whatever you want* | 17:00 |
| CosmoHill | *As long as apple will let you | 17:00 |
| CosmoHill | if your app has sexual connect, an innuendo or just a really pretty interface it will be removed | 17:01 |
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| tybollt | Please, this is a Maemo channel, can we atleast whine about Maemo-compatible devices? ;) | 17:02 |
| daumas | *MeeGo | 17:02 |
| bergie | CosmoHill: like http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1357.html ? | 17:02 |
| daumas | :P | 17:02 |
| tybollt | ehr yes | 17:02 |
| tybollt | my bad | 17:02 |
| tybollt | wrong channel, sorry ;) | 17:02 |
| bergie | well, all of that App Store stuff proves that MeeGo also needs an open, peer-reviewed "app store", like maemo downloads is | 17:02 |
| bergie | otherwise, who knows how Ovi approval policies are for instance | 17:03 |
| RST38h | maemo downloads is no app store | 17:03 |
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| RST38h | But yes, Meego needs a bunch of public repos and a web site on top | 17:04 |
| tybollt | there is an ovi store | 17:04 |
| tybollt | that's appstore | 17:04 |
| tybollt | but it is - last I tried - very fail :) | 17:04 |
| bergie | RST38h: Maemo Downloads provides an "app store"-like experience, even though there is obviously no concept of "buying" | 17:05 |
| CosmoHill | bergie: hehe | 17:05 |
| X-Fade | And appinstaller runs on top of that. | 17:05 |
| bergie | yep, http://danielwilms.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/download-assistant-for-extras-applications/ | 17:05 |
| X-Fade | Which is more like a on device app store would work. | 17:06 |
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| arjan__ | bergie: yes we need some sort of app store like thing, and that is also in the plan, absolutely | 17:09 |
| arjan__ | (and frankly, technically an "appstore" is only hard in the part where it is about payments and such, the rest is mostly glueing existing technology together in a nice UI) | 17:09 |
| * GeneralAntilles is out for the weekend. | 17:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Later, folks. | 17:09 |
| bergie | arjan__: and to comply with the open source nature of the community, I think the crowdsourced approval process we have for maemo.org is pretty good | 17:10 |
| arjan__ | oh yeah needs to be like that, you won't hear me argue against that ;) | 17:10 |
| bergie | (http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing) | 17:10 |
| bergie | damn, I wrote a long email about SSO to meego-community but the lists appear to be down | 17:11 |
| arjan__ | btw moblin had something similar to that as well | 17:11 |
| arjan__ | just not as mature in process | 17:11 |
| arjan__ | the hard part of this is having someone be a really good 'editor' | 17:11 |
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| arjan__ | so that the user experience is that the user sees all "good" apps first, and not a bunch of "crappy" ones | 17:12 |
| arjan__ | (and yes, what is good and what is crappy is not an easy thing) | 17:12 |
| bergie | arjan__: that is the point of crowdsourcing the process, you don't need to burden editors | 17:12 |
| th0br0 | heya | 17:12 |
| bergie | in my view the apps in Downloads are of better quality than the ones in Ovi Store, though some of the games in Ovi are pretty nice | 17:12 |
| arjan__ | the editor/whatever thing is hard, because also on the one hand the desire is to have high quality stuff, and on the other hand the desire is to be inclusive and accept almost all submissions | 17:13 |
| arjan__ | and those two are sort of in conflict, and create a mess if you're not careful | 17:13 |
| CosmoHill | hi arjan__, why do you have a long tail? | 17:14 |
| arjan__ | crowdsourcing + good ranking system can help out there | 17:14 |
| X-Fade | arjan__: But that is where we use the voting part. | 17:14 |
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| X-Fade | And it does scale a lot better than 3 guys at apple ;) | 17:14 |
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| arjan_ | X-Fade: yup.. and then it becomes a matter of presenting things well in the UI | 17:14 |
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| X-Fade | We opted for giving enthusiasts access to a more unstable repository, so they get early access and can comment on the issues. | 17:15 |
| jku | a pro writer doing the app introductions can also do wonders to usability... | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | They are then happy because they have the latest and greatest ;) | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | jku: Yes. Copy writing is an art. | 17:16 |
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| X-Fade | jku: Developers write descriptions like: Xbarf clone for Maemo. | 17:17 |
| bergie | ...which, again, is one of the reasons why we need to remember that non-developers can also be contributors | 17:18 |
| jku | X-Fade, yes -- I just had that experience when I looked at the syncevolution support page which we intend to link to from the UI... | 17:18 |
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| jku | four words in the first sentence that a typical user would not know | 17:18 |
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| Corsac | ali1234: some failed build logs look like just packaging mistakes | 17:23 |
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| Corsac | ali1234: not really related to anything else | 17:23 |
| Corsac | arjan_: is moblin rebuilt entirely from time to time? | 17:23 |
| Corsac | java-gcj just failed, and among the error, there is: | 17:24 |
| Corsac | error: File must begin with "/": %py_sitedir/* | 17:24 |
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| Corsac | which looks like an error in the specfile | 17:24 |
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| * Jaffa got into an argument with a developer that "A notification area" wasn't a good description for a package called "Notification Area (System Tray)" since it was intended to be user visible: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/hildon-systray/0.0.1/ | 17:24 | |
| tybollt | Jaffa++ | 17:25 |
| tybollt | I was annoyed by that too | 17:26 |
| tybollt | Jaffa: you go after him :-) | 17:26 |
| daumas | Jaffa: Could be because the Maemo packaging policy is very limited in scope. :) | 17:26 |
| arjan_ | Corsac: yes | 17:27 |
| arjan_ | Corsac: obs rebuilds it entirely | 17:27 |
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| arjan_ | obs builds each package in its minimal buildroot though | 17:28 |
| arjan_ | and we know we have some issues where things fail if you give some packages a richer BR | 17:28 |
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| Corsac | arjan_: I build from mock which, afaics, builds a new chroot for each package | 17:29 |
| Jaffa | daumas: Appealing to the letter of the rules rather than following the spirit is pretty petty on something which is intended to improve the user experience and general wonderfulness of Maemo ;-) | 17:30 |
| Corsac | and in java-gcj case it doesn't look like dependencies problem | 17:30 |
| Corsac | or build-conflict missing | 17:30 |
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| Corsac | arjan_: I think ali1234 put his failed logs somewhere, I'll do the same in the end, in case you're interested | 17:31 |
| arjan_ | we are interested, but I have to admit it is not the highest priority right now | 17:31 |
| arjan_ | one of the things might be differences in the minimal package set | 17:31 |
| Corsac | yeah, fair enough | 17:31 |
| arjan_ | mock might have a slightly different set than we use | 17:31 |
| arjan_ | anaz can give the list we use | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | the prjconf? | 17:32 |
| Corsac | I should look at obs to install it on my laptop and remove the login check, but I'm too short on time these days | 17:32 |
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| arjan_ | Stskeeps: yeah | 17:33 |
| Corsac | 395 build-attempted, 27 failed | 17:33 |
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| Corsac | kdelibs, brrr | 17:34 |
| arjan_ | iirc qt needs kdelibs | 17:35 |
| hrw | arjan_: no, kdelibs needs qt | 17:35 |
| arjan_ | hrw: it's the definition of a build loop ;)_ | 17:35 |
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| Corsac | if qt needs kdelibs, that looks like the perfect candidate to be dropped! | 17:36 |
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| anaZ | we dont have kdelibs | 17:37 |
| arjan_ | hmm maybe it was kdefilesystem I was thinking of | 17:37 |
| anaZ | that comes from phonon | 17:37 |
| anaZ | not directly from qt | 17:37 |
| arjan_ | ah. | 17:37 |
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| Corsac | anaZ: at least there's a kdelibs src.rpm in the moblin repository | 17:38 |
| anaZ | but this is gone now | 17:38 |
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| anaZ | what repo? | 17:38 |
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| Corsac | anaZ: http://ftp.moblin.org/releases/2.1/source/kdelibs4-4.2.2-12.15.moblin2.src.rpm | 17:38 |
| * arjan_ wanders to the office | 17:39 | |
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| anaZ | and btw, we never try to use mock, if you want to build things, use build | 17:39 |
| anaZ | that is 2.1 | 17:39 |
| anaZ | too old | 17:39 |
| Corsac | yeah well, meego repository is gone | 17:39 |
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| Corsac | maybe I should have tried trunk/ though | 17:39 |
| anaZ | oh | 17:39 |
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| anaZ | hmm, I think someone is moving things around | 17:39 |
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| anaZ | arjan: do you know where the trunk was moved to? | 17:40 |
| Corsac | http://ftp.moblin.org/releases/trunk/repo/source/ doesnt look too old but I guess it won't be updated anymore? | 17:41 |
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| anaZ | Corsac: things are being cleaned up and moved to the final destination | 17:42 |
| anaZ | but that is recent enough | 17:43 |
| anaZ | still considered moblin though | 17:43 |
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| Corsac | yeah | 17:43 |
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| ali1234 | Corsac, arjan_afk: failure logs are at http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/fail/ - but they're mostly the same as what slaine_ already reported | 17:57 |
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| daumas | Any word on when the MeeGo lists will be back up? | 18:13 |
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| slaine_ | anaZ: any sign of that updated OBS moblin config ? | 18:22 |
| Hydroxide | 0http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/feb/25/bernard-madoff-daughter-in-law-name-change | 18:24 |
| Hydroxide | oops | 18:24 |
| Hydroxide | sorry, that was entirely the wrong channel | 18:24 |
| Hydroxide | apologies | 18:24 |
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| slaine_ | ali1234: That a2ps one was a weird one alright | 18:31 |
| slaine_ | iirc, I could build it on my moblin netbook. But, if I copied that FS image to my desktop PC and chroot'd into it, it failed as per your logs | 18:32 |
| Corsac | INFO: Done(sources/kdelibs4-4.2.2-12.15.moblin2.src.rpm) Config(moblin) 61 minutes 49 seconds | 18:34 |
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| Corsac | too bad it's unneeded :) | 18:35 |
| slaine_ | Did your a2ps rpm rebuild ? | 18:35 |
| Corsac | yes | 18:35 |
| Corsac | well | 18:35 |
| Corsac | I think so, let me check | 18:35 |
| Corsac | yes | 18:35 |
| slaine_ | can you paste up your makefile again | 18:36 |
| slaine_ | what host your running that build on | 18:36 |
| Corsac | core2duo | 18:36 |
| slaine_ | os I meant | 18:36 |
| Corsac | debian sid, but inside a chroot | 18:37 |
| Corsac | http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/meego/Makefile | 18:37 |
| Corsac | http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/meego/a2ps-4.14-6.1.moblin2.src.rpm.log too | 18:37 |
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| slaine_ | Corsac: cheers, I'll modify my scripts to use that mock command line rather than the rpmbuild command | 18:41 |
| Corsac | slaine_: anaZ recommended to use “build” | 18:42 |
| Corsac | but I don't exactly know what it is, and mock is available in debian :) | 18:43 |
| slaine_ | Corsac: yes, he did. Himself and Arjan suggested that the last time I reported these problems last year | 18:45 |
| slaine_ | But build doesn't work either, with many of the same packaging problems | 18:45 |
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| Corsac | yeah, I don't think most of the problems lie in the build tool, though it's nice to use the “official” tool when possible | 18:46 |
| Corsac | it's just that looking for “build” isn't exactly easy :) | 18:47 |
| slaine_ | Corsac: that number of failed is the same number I had last year btw | 18:47 |
| Corsac | wow | 18:47 |
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| slaine_ | Corsac, You can get build and the configs from here, http://moblin.org/documentation/building-moblin-packages-natively | 18:48 |
| slaine_ | anaZ suggested last night that the config was out of date, but I'd guess that it's the same one as used for 2.1 | 18:49 |
| anaZ | hmm, thought it was on the wiki | 18:49 |
| anaZ | let me look | 18:49 |
| slaine_ | great, thanks | 18:49 |
| Corsac | hmhm, nice, osc is in debian | 18:50 |
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| Corsac | wow, there's nasm in moblin | 18:53 |
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| slaine_ | anaZ: any joy ? | 19:13 |
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| anaZ | slaine_: trying to attach it to wiki | 19:21 |
| anaZ | it seems attachments are disabled | 19:21 |
| arjan | Corsac: why not ? | 19:22 |
| Corsac | anaZ: http://moblin.org/sites/all/files/moblin_0.txt ? | 19:22 |
| arjan | Corsac: ffmpeg and co use it if you want it to | 19:22 |
| anaZ | Corsac: this is old | 19:22 |
| Corsac | arjan: I do use it, so I find that nice :) | 19:22 |
| arjan | we also have yasm | 19:22 |
| arjan | for the same type of reason | 19:23 |
| Corsac | are there usually available for end-users or only as a build-deps? | 19:23 |
| dneary | slaine_, Hi there | 19:23 |
| slaine_ | Hi dneary | 19:23 |
| dneary | slaine_, In fairness to Dawn (the community manager listed in the wiki), she starts on March 1st | 19:24 |
| dneary | So she hasn't had a chance not to get to know everyone yet ;) | 19:24 |
| slaine_ | anaZ, could you paste to pastebin ? | 19:24 |
| slaine_ | dneary, that would explain why I'd never heard of her :) | 19:24 |
| Corsac | aha | 19:24 |
| slaine_ | foods up, bbs | 19:24 |
| dneary | She has some blogger cred | 19:24 |
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| dneary | http://fastwonderblog.com/ | 19:25 |
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| ahynes1 | From what I've read of Dawn, she seems to have major blogger cred and will be a great addition (when she starts) | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | she already has a lot of cred for showing up here and in meetings, too :) | 19:39 |
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| lcuk | lol Stskeeps i dont think absence was really an option :D | 19:46 |
| * w00t waves at lcuk | 19:46 | |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, she was in yesterday meeting ? | 19:46 |
| lcuk | hiya w00t \o | 19:46 |
| w00t | abstinence is always an option | 19:46 |
| w00t | er, absense :/ | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: idling and listening | 19:46 |
| VDVsx | ah, ok, didn't noticed :) | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 19:46 |
| * w00t is obviously not totally here | 19:46 | |
| lcuk | w00t, when are you ever | 19:46 |
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| slaine_ | Awe man, we need to have a "Hitler finds out about MeeGo" video | 19:47 |
| auke | lol | 19:47 |
| anaZ | slaine_: http://pastie.org/842656 | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | RPM vs DEB edition? | 19:47 |
| auke | please don't ;) | 19:47 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, you practice abstinence? | 19:48 |
| slaine_ | it would so rock, you know it | 19:48 |
| w00t | "anyone who uses fedora, please leave the room." | 19:48 |
| * VDVsx loves the ovi maps hitler video | 19:48 | |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, humm ? | 19:48 |
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| tripzero | VDVsx, link? | 19:48 |
| w00t | daumas: ;) | 19:48 |
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| anaZ | is there a meego hitler spoof yet? | 19:48 |
| zaheerm | s/VDVsx/w00t/ :) | 19:48 |
| w00t | speaking of fedora, I shoved fedora onto my blank vaio hdd before sending it in for repair | 19:48 |
| VDVsx | tripzero, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRbCoh66yuU | 19:48 |
| w00t | I'm wondering how hard that'll make them wtf | 19:49 |
| slaine_ | anaZ: no, I was suggesting that we should have one though | 19:49 |
| slaine_ | thanks for the paste | 19:49 |
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| slaine_ | I'll give it a whirl now | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | "fedora on your laptop voids your warranty" | 19:49 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: hahah :P | 19:49 |
| * slaine_ <3 fedora | 19:50 | |
| w00t | i still have the original hdd, i just don't want -them- to have it and ruin all my data | 19:50 |
| w00t | so, they can wipe the fedora hdd for all I care | 19:50 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, She's been in meetings? I didn't see her last night | 19:50 |
| dneary | slaine_, I can see it now - "Springtime in MeeGo" | 19:50 |
| daumas | w00t: That'll be interesting. HP once argued with me that a system shipped with Windows ME was out of warranty when I put 98SE on it. | 19:51 |
| slaine_ | ahynes1: thanks for the email | 19:51 |
| w00t | daumas: *boggle* | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: log.02-24-2010:[20:55:29]-!- DawnFoster [~Adium@70.98.76.131] has joined #meego-meeting | 19:51 |
| w00t | that doesn't really surprise me though, HP (at least in my few years of dealing with them) weren't fun | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | log.02-24-2010:[23:20:10]-!- DawnFoster [~Adium@70.98.76.131] has left #meego-meeting [] | 19:51 |
| daumas | Me either. I still have to deal with them for enterprise hardware now and it's just as bad! | 19:52 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, She didn't say much :) | 19:53 |
| tripzero | is there any word about ovi-nav coming to the n900/maemo/meego? | 19:54 |
| slaine_ | she was too intimidated by your presence dneary | 19:54 |
| w00t | dneary: generally though, observing when you're new to a community isn't that silly an idea | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: yeah, but she didnt start yet, probably just learning | 19:54 |
| dneary | slaine_, That's understandable | 19:54 |
| dneary | w00t, Absolutely | 19:54 |
| dneary | Introductions might have been nice :) | 19:54 |
| * VDVsx requests the meego video :D | 19:54 | |
| slaine_ | nod, we all get week in the knees when you join the channel | 19:54 |
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| slaine_ | anaZ: is that for trunk or 2.1 ? | 19:55 |
| slaine_ | I'm guessing trunk as it's looking for xz-libs which isn't in 2.1 | 19:56 |
| anaZ | slaine_: trunk | 19:56 |
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| anaZ | you want 2.1? | 19:57 |
| slaine_ | for now | 19:57 |
| anaZ | what issue are you having with old config? | 19:57 |
| anaZ | md5 errors? | 19:57 |
| slaine_ | src rpms fail to build | 19:57 |
| anaZ | try adding | 19:58 |
| anaZ | Preinstall: nss-softokn-freebl | 19:58 |
| slaine_ | the most typical reason being /usr/share/info/dir | 19:58 |
| anaZ | oh | 19:58 |
| anaZ | well, that is already fixed | 19:58 |
| slaine_ | being installed but not packaged by the spec | 19:58 |
| anaZ | and you should not build as root | 19:58 |
| anaZ | are you building as root? | 19:58 |
| slaine_ | yes, /sbin and /usr/sbin in the path trigger that | 19:58 |
| slaine_ | but this was using the build command | 19:58 |
| anaZ | using build you should not have those issues | 19:59 |
| Corsac | (afaik I don't build as root since I give mock --unpriv) | 19:59 |
| slaine_ | well, I do | 19:59 |
| anaZ | because it does not build as root | 19:59 |
| anaZ | hmm | 19:59 |
| anaZ | well, fix the specs :) | 19:59 |
| slaine_ | I tried that last year | 19:59 |
| anaZ | in trunk it should be ok | 19:59 |
| slaine_ | was told they're autogenerated | 19:59 |
| slaine_ | via spec builder | 20:00 |
| anaZ | because we have spec | 20:00 |
| slaine_ | tried to get spec builder, but it wasn't available yet | 20:00 |
| slaine_ | there's a long list here, I could keep going :) | 20:00 |
| anaZ | slaine_: what exactly are you tryingto do anyways? | 20:00 |
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| slaine_ | rebuild the distro without the sse3 gcc flags | 20:00 |
| anaZ | ah | 20:01 |
| slaine_ | 'cause I want to use Moblin Foundation on existing hardware | 20:01 |
| slaine_ | I have about 16,000 bedside terminals and set top boxes | 20:01 |
| slaine_ | the majority are celerons or pentium m's | 20:01 |
| slaine_ | there's also a load of Via C3-2's | 20:02 |
| * slaine_ shudders | 20:02 | |
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| slaine_ | Our new devices are based on Atom + 945, which is great, but I need to be able to provide upgrades to my existing customers | 20:03 |
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| slaine_ | the plan was to rebuild all the src.rpm's with more generic gcc options and use mic2 to create an install for testing | 20:04 |
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| Stskeeps | lists of meego.com still down? but its already morning in US :P | 20:09 |
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| tripzero | still down... | 20:10 |
| tripzero | and i'm still trying to ignore the fact that it's morning | 20:10 |
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| Corsac | grmbl | 20:10 |
| Corsac | ERROR: Exception(sources/kernel-2.6.31.5-10.1.moblin2.src.rpm) Config(moblin-2.1-i386) 86 minutes 23 seconds | 20:10 |
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| * CosmoHill needs MySQL help :( | 20:16 | |
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| Corsac | mpf, the only common stuff between 2.1 and trunk which I've already built is kde-filesystem | 20:36 |
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| anaZ | which should be dropped from Trunk anyways | 20:38 |
| anaZ | :) | 20:38 |
| anaZ | I thought I did | 20:39 |
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| slaine_ | ali1234: I get the same build error against a2ps using the OBS build script | 20:55 |
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| Stskeeps | woo. lists are up! | 21:03 |
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| amby | hi all | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | evening amby | 21:18 |
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| amby | just checking in before having the best pizza in Milano. Was there no activity on meego-community maillist today? | 21:21 |
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| dvalfre | amby: AFAIK, lists where having a problem, which is solved now | 21:22 |
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| amby | thx. | 21:25 |
| amby | Anyone can explain me the original idea behin the maemo workstream system? | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | amby: let others know what you do, cos it is difficult to have transparency otherwise | 21:29 |
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| amby | as I see from bergie's post it does not handle the actions, just the publishing part, right? | 21:30 |
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| Stskeeps | we pioneered it a bit in Mer - we were a lot of contributors spread across many timezones. workstreaming was a way to let your team be aware what you do | 21:32 |
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| * CosmoHill recompiles php | 21:32 | |
| Stskeeps | workstreaming would avoid the silence atm for instance - a lot of work is being done but noone knows what | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | even if it is non-NDA work | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | it helps people's awareness | 21:34 |
| amby | i c. I was thinking in both mgmt and awareness part, I'll check for option to include this req. | 21:34 |
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| Stskeeps | it is very valuable but should be easy to produce | 21:35 |
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| amby | gotta go now, Stskeeps cheers | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | in Mer we had a bot taking ".log" which psted to mailing list | 21:37 |
| leinir | It'd be interesting to get a similar bot which posts to identi.ca and twitter as well... | 21:38 |
| amby | yep | 21:38 |
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| leinir | with some appropriate auto-tagging/grouping and tinyurling | 21:39 |
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| slaine_ | anaZ: Is there a way to tell what the env is like for the OBS build user ? | 21:42 |
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| anaZ | not sure what you mean | 21:43 |
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| slaine_ | i.e. if the /sbin and /usr/sbin are in abuilder's PATH | 21:44 |
| slaine_ | to account for some of the failures | 21:44 |
| slaine_ | also, once built, how do I get rpm out of "/home/abuild/rpmbuild..." :) | 21:46 |
| anaZ | echo $PATH? :) | 21:46 |
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| slaine_ | so can I get a shell ? | 21:46 |
| CosmoHill | oo, geeky stuff | 21:46 |
| anaZ | slaine_: right a script that fetches those out | 21:46 |
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| slaine_ | I guess what I'm asking is, where's the chroot stored :) | 21:46 |
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| anaZ | /var/tmp/build-root AFAIK | 21:48 |
| anaZ | but you can chnage that | 21:48 |
| anaZ | by defining some variables | 21:48 |
| slaine_ | yay, it's there | 21:49 |
| daumas | slaine_: with koji, it's easy. koji list-groups dist-foo-build ;) | 21:49 |
| slaine_ | thanks anaZ | 21:49 |
| slaine_ | sorry for being a pest | 21:49 |
| anaZ | is that now the Koji vs. OBS discussion? :) | 21:49 |
| Corsac | a2ps succeeded again | 21:50 |
| Corsac | (in trunk) | 21:50 |
| slaine_ | wonder was changes made to the spec files ;) | 21:51 |
| slaine_ | zsh was one that failed for me in my moblin/chroot scripts that I made | 21:51 |
| slaine_ | worked with build | 21:51 |
| anaZ | too much effort to run on "obsolete" hardware :D | 21:51 |
| slaine_ | a2ps not though | 21:51 |
| slaine_ | lol | 21:51 |
| slaine_ | yeah, I know | 21:51 |
| slaine_ | that's what we went with Fedora in the end | 21:52 |
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| slaine_ | but if I can get this working I might reverse that decision :) | 21:52 |
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| * slaine__ blinks | 21:55 | |
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| * CosmoHill pokes slaine__'s tail | 21:56 | |
| slaine__ | Ouch | 21:56 |
| *** slaine__ is now known as slaine_ | 21:57 | |
| slaine_ | now look what you did | 21:57 |
| * CosmoHill pokes slaine__'s tail one more time | 21:58 | |
| slaine_ | that won't work unfortunately | 21:58 |
| slaine_ | some @#*& has that registered already | 21:59 |
| Myrtti | er, no? | 21:59 |
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| CosmoHill | slaine_: it's not registered | 22:10 |
| slaine_ | Hmm, it was at one point | 22:10 |
| CosmoHill | 958.02s user 90.55s system 98% cpu 17:45.14 total | 22:10 |
| Myrtti | not anymore :-) | 22:10 |
| CosmoHill | poor server | 22:10 |
| slaine_ | I'll see if I can get it | 22:10 |
| CosmoHill | change your nick to it to start off | 22:11 |
| *** slaine_ is now known as slaine | 22:11 | |
| CosmoHill | yay | 22:11 |
| slaine | how do I get nickserv to register it though | 22:12 |
| Myrtti | /msg nickserv help group | 22:12 |
| thiago_home | group registration needs to go through a webpage | 22:12 |
| CosmoHill | group? | 22:12 |
| thiago_home | and wait for freenode to act | 22:13 |
| Myrtti | thiago_home: nickserv, not chanserv | 22:13 |
| CosmoHill | do one nick and add others later | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | oh, nick grouping | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | oops :-) | 22:13 |
| slaine | Myrtti: cool, thanks | 22:13 |
| slaine | I'm me again | 22:13 |
| * slaine does a little dance | 22:14 | |
| slaine | Guys, I can't say how chuffed I am, thanks a million | 22:15 |
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| slaine | I've been using slaine_ on freenode for years, lol | 22:15 |
| CosmoHill | haha | 22:15 |
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| CosmoHill | mmm, 7177 tests | 22:17 |
| CosmoHill | it's one of the times where I'd like a faster server | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | ok slaine, now you can go and pick up all the discarded _ from around the network | 22:18 |
| slaine | yes sir | 22:18 |
| lcuk | :D | 22:18 |
| * slaine bows head and wanders off | 22:18 | |
| slaine | Ok | 22:19 |
| lcuk | so you seriously never tried to register yourself properly | 22:19 |
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| CosmoHill | I was registed within 5 mins | 22:19 |
| CosmoHill | then again i was an op within 6 | 22:19 |
| slaine | anaZ, it seems that /etc/profile has sbin and usr/sbin for non-root users in there | 22:20 |
| slaine | lcuk: Of course I did, best I could get at the time was slaine_ | 22:20 |
| lcuk | b/me nods | 22:20 |
| lcuk | -b | 22:20 |
| slaine | I tried a few times, but it was still claimed and eventually I just got used to the tail | 22:20 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:20 |
| lcuk | im still using temporary nick oto | 22:21 |
| lcuk | too | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: i think i once has an if statment | 22:21 |
| CosmoHill | so if the user was root or not they had different paths | 22:21 |
| slaine | that's a questionable position to be in | 22:21 |
| * slaine ducks | 22:21 | |
| slaine | CosmoHill: there is an if statement there, but it's the same paths with orders reversed | 22:22 |
| slaine | And that's coming from the moblin setup rpm | 22:23 |
| slaine | Humph | 22:23 |
| CosmoHill | :o | 22:23 |
| slaine | lol, it also has this | 22:23 |
| slaine | export CFLAGS="-O2 -g -march=core2 -msse3 -mtune=generic -mfpmath=sse" | 22:24 |
| slaine | it's getting late and I've to put the kids to bed. | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | that is how they limited moblin | 22:24 |
| slaine | I'll be back later | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | throw them! | 22:24 |
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| thiago_home | slaine: you want another s in that sse3 | 22:35 |
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| ShadowJK | how does the gcc syntax work? does -march=core2 not include -mssse3 ? | 22:36 |
| thiago_home | it does | 22:36 |
| RST38h | use both | 22:36 |
| RST38h | won't harm | 22:36 |
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| ShadowJK | I guess using sse for floating point isn't default on 32 bit x86 though? | 22:40 |
| arjan | ShadowJK: not on normal 32 bit x86; the ABI is still pass parameters on the x87 stack | 22:42 |
| arjan | it's messy | 22:42 |
| arjan | but at least for inside-the-function stuff, using sse is faster | 22:42 |
| arjan | (since you can address the registers direct, rather than only being able to address the top of stack like x87 does) | 22:42 |
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| th0br0 | bye | 22:50 |
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| CosmoHill | cos i didn't accidentally break my web server >.> | 22:53 |
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| slaine | Ah, it's all becoming clearer now I've referred to my moblin install | 23:30 |
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| congerro | does somebody know how they want to manage paid applications? | 23:31 |
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| thiago_home | congerro: per device | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | the Nokia devices will use the Ovi Store | 23:35 |
| daumas | congerro: its still being discussed. | 23:36 |
| slaine | The /etc/profile has the paths setup with /sbin /usr/sbin and /usr/local/sbin etc. BUT for some reason my users path doesn't have it | 23:37 |
| thiago_home | slaine: isn't that expected? | 23:37 |
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| slaine | I'm confused as to why it's not based on what's in the /etc/profile | 23:38 |
| slaine | if uid = 0 then /sbin /usr/sbin /usr/local/sbin else /usr/local/sbin /usr/sbin /sbin fi | 23:39 |
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| congerro | thiago, daumas: thx | 23:43 |
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| anaZ | slaine: moblin 2.1? | 23:50 |
| slaine | yup, my netbook distro of choice :) | 23:51 |
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| anaZ | and you are checking from gnome terminal? | 23:51 |
| slaine | I'd use 2.2 if you relased it | 23:51 |
| slaine | yup | 23:51 |
| anaZ | that is a known bug | 23:51 |
| anaZ | fixed | 23:51 |
| slaine | Where's it getting the PATH from then ? | 23:51 |
| anaZ | uxlaunch probably | 23:52 |
| anaZ | but it does not use profile | 23:52 |
| anaZ | that is the bug | 23:52 |
| slaine | it's not treating it as a login session then I assume, or wasn't | 23:53 |
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| slaine | I'm still confused as to how your obs setup works then if sbin /usr/sbin is supposed to be in the path | 23:55 |
| anaZ | it runs as user? | 23:55 |
| slaine | and that causes a large portion of the errors | 23:55 |
| anaZ | thats the key | 23:56 |
| slaine | yeah, but /etc/proflle sets up sbin etc for a normal user | 23:56 |
| anaZ | actually, we fixed most of those when we decided to add /sbin | 23:56 |
| anaZ | /usr/sbin | 23:56 |
| slaine | that was obviously post 2.1 | 23:57 |
| anaZ | yes | 23:57 |
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| slaine | but my netbootk here and my obs rpms are 2.1 and they have /sbin /usr/sbin in the path for normal users | 23:57 |
| slaine | (well, except for the uxlaunch bug you mentioned) | 23:57 |
| slaine | abuild user doesn't go via uxlaunch, so it just gets what's in /etc/profile | 23:58 |
| anaZ | because most of those rpms are originally from 2.0 | 23:58 |
| anaZ | they were never rebuilt | 23:58 |
| anaZ | 2.1 is based on 2.0 | 23:58 |
| anaZ | i have never thought a path variable would cause so much confusion :) | 23:59 |
| slaine | indeed, it took a while to track down the path being the cause of the src.rpm builds failing | 23:59 |
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