| lcuk | then just set it as middle ofthe road and similar to how normal mms goes through? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | and if uber user (like yourself) wants to change it later you can still do so | 00:02 |
| frals | yes sounds reasonable | 00:02 |
| frals | will set it to what seems to work for most people as default | 00:03 |
| lcuk | :) great | 00:03 |
| frals | and make it a drop down instead | 00:03 |
| lcuk | so, potentially we can actually skip that screen providing the 2 validations work | 00:03 |
| lcuk | hasoknumber() and hasoksize() | 00:03 |
| * lcuk forgot the other biggies | 00:04 | |
| frals | doesnt have to throw it in the face of the user at least | 00:04 |
| lcuk | getting ahead of selves lol | 00:04 |
| frals | so im thinking something like this | 00:05 |
| frals | if settings are fetched from database that screen wont be shown | 00:05 |
| frals | ie it will send you straight to mainview | 00:05 |
| frals | and if i detect an error in sending ill show a banner "Please check Configuration and make sure APN settings are correct" or something like that | 00:06 |
| lcuk | yeah, try to imagine the ideal flow a user will go through | 00:06 |
| lcuk | and only step in their way if there are blockers | 00:06 |
| frals | then theres this problem with connection mode im not so sure about | 00:08 |
| lcuk | ok ive seen it explained | 00:08 |
| frals | like ppl coming from other platforms are gonna expect it to work like "Havoc" mode ie bring up 2nd connection in background | 00:08 |
| lcuk | and i also saw the video walkthrough | 00:08 |
| lcuk | other platforms dont have normal connection on wifi etc | 00:09 |
| frals | but im kinda scared of setting that as default because it might actually mess up routing table and if it goes really bad its gonna block modem | 00:09 |
| frals | from creating new 3g connections until device is rebooted | 00:09 |
| frals | i *think* ive made it not do that anymore but cant guarantee it | 00:09 |
| lcuk | ok, then go with next best "Rude" :) | 00:10 |
| frals | yeah problem with that it doesnt always reconnect the user to the previous apn :D | 00:10 |
| frals | also if there are conenctions in the background they are gonna get destroyed etc so its not so nice if someone is downloading stuff and gets an mms | 00:10 |
| frals | as it will break the connection | 00:11 |
| frals | which is why i default to polite | 00:11 |
| lcuk | right, so its the recv thats the uncomfortable one | 00:11 |
| lcuk | do you download as soon as the sms comes in | 00:11 |
| frals | yeah | 00:11 |
| frals | if it fails there is just the sms notification which brings up fmms when clicked | 00:11 |
| lcuk | i know its more of a ballache, but for later revision, could you wait until they are bringing up fmms | 00:12 |
| lcuk | "you are currently connected to O2, to see this message i have to reconnect to .." | 00:12 |
| frals | hmm | 00:12 |
| lcuk | of course, only if thats not what they are connected to | 00:13 |
| frals | ye currently it just tries to go to the url specified in the mms and if it fails it stops | 00:13 |
| lcuk | so thats polite mode? | 00:13 |
| frals | yeah | 00:13 |
| lcuk | ok, and if it cant get to the url when they bring up the ui? | 00:14 |
| lcuk | does it just ask them to change | 00:14 |
| frals | it says it failed | 00:14 |
| frals | good point it should ask them to change APN and bring up the picker i guess | 00:14 |
| frals | good/bad? :) | 00:15 |
| lcuk | yeah thats possible - not looking to change it now, i realise drastic changes in the flow are harder than minor tweaketc | 00:15 |
| lcuk | it sounds better to me personally | 00:15 |
| frals | im thinking if the download fails AND conenctionmode == Polite | 00:16 |
| frals | you get a dialog "Need to change connection to get MMS, proceed: Yes/No?" | 00:16 |
| lcuk | yeah - you are being as polite as the normal applications when they need data | 00:16 |
| lcuk | but users may not understand - can you filter the network list? | 00:16 |
| lcuk | to only show the connections that are valid? | 00:16 |
| frals | im thinkin a "Yes" in that dialog will do what "Rude" does | 00:16 |
| frals | ie i change connection myself | 00:17 |
| lcuk | sounds better | 00:17 |
| lcuk | than sticking in a loop with them selecting their normal internet connection | 00:17 |
| lcuk | and cursing all the names under the sun | 00:17 |
| frals | :D | 00:17 |
| lcuk | im still amazed can actually send/recv pictures at all! | 00:18 |
| frals | hehe | 00:19 |
| lcuk | ok, so the configure dialog with mms details, theres a blended approach with the wiki settings database + the proper database + hopefully some way to feed live data into the proper one | 00:19 |
| frals | yeah | 00:20 |
| frals | optimal would be up to date operator database + getting the settings from the sms the oprator sends out | 00:20 |
| frals | especially the operator sent ones as they should be fuckin perfect :D | 00:20 |
| lcuk | yeah | 00:20 |
| lcuk | well if there is a method to ping providers and actually get them to resend, it should allow us to test if its working | 00:21 |
| lcuk | "help i need mms" | 00:21 |
| frals | yeah | 00:21 |
| lcuk | "oh hai, your ip is blah, port blah, us/pw blah" | 00:21 |
| frals | basically what you get when you show up on most networks with a new imei | 00:21 |
| lcuk | yeah - ill see whether i can shed any light on that | 00:22 |
| frals | cheers :) | 00:22 |
| lcuk | "note read the thread on tmo" | 00:22 |
| frals | gonna remove that | 00:23 |
| lcuk | does your mum have an account and know how to make it work? :D | 00:23 |
| lcuk | yeah | 00:23 |
| lcuk | ok, wheres the wiki page with provider settings | 00:23 |
| frals | its been there since first versions where it was even worse from ux perspective ;) | 00:23 |
| frals | http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS | 00:23 |
| lcuk | damn servers afk | 00:23 |
| frals | works fine here | 00:24 |
| lcuk | ok - you say it needs converting into machine readable format? | 00:24 |
| lcuk | mm | 00:24 |
| frals | yeah | 00:24 |
| lcuk | cursed thing | 00:24 |
| lcuk | you have had 150k downloads | 00:24 |
| frals | hmm gonna drop a mail to some people about that phonenumber bit and see how its handled on symbian | 00:25 |
| lcuk | theres a lot of interest, i wonder if we can convince one ot two of them to help and do it once we know the required destination format | 00:25 |
| lcuk | ok | 00:25 |
| frals | i got the required format here | 00:26 |
| lcuk | same as the official one? | 00:26 |
| frals | yeah | 00:26 |
| lcuk | :) | 00:26 |
| frals | it be easiest for me anyway | 00:26 |
| frals | as i could use the same parser | 00:26 |
| lcuk | its easiest for everything | 00:26 |
| lcuk | ok where on my device is the default database | 00:27 |
| frals | /etc/operator_settings | 00:27 |
| frals | teh header of the file is actually incorrect | 00:27 |
| frals | its missing MMSC at the end | 00:27 |
| lcuk | so where theres an <EMPTY> field is actually mmcs? | 00:28 |
| lcuk | mmsc | 00:28 |
| frals | after the <EMPTY> | 00:28 |
| frals | http://gitorious.org/fmms/fmms/blobs/master/controller.py if you check def get_settings_from_file there | 00:28 |
| frals | i have the fields listed in order | 00:29 |
| frals | doh, ive not added 17 : MMSC | 00:29 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:29 |
| lcuk | fur future, if giving code lists - gitorious lets you click line numbers | 00:30 |
| lcuk | http://gitorious.org/fmms/fmms/blobs/master/controller.py#line381 | 00:30 |
| lcuk | saves you explaining ;) | 00:30 |
| frals | oh | 00:31 |
| frals | didnt know that :D | 00:31 |
| * lcuk nods | 00:31 | |
| lcuk | in the default settings file | 00:31 |
| lcuk | theres many options for for instance | 00:31 |
| lcuk | vodafone | 00:31 |
| frals | yeah | 00:31 |
| lcuk | how do you determine which to use | 00:31 |
| frals | MCC + MNC | 00:31 |
| frals | two first fields | 00:32 |
| lcuk | ahhh i see | 00:32 |
| lcuk | so hen you must also dig in and find the MMS variation | 00:32 |
| lcuk | then | 00:32 |
| frals | also i emailed the person who i think owns that code because i assumed i could match the oprator named displayed with the name in that file | 00:33 |
| frals | but that was wrong :P | 00:33 |
| frals | so need to find out how operator-wizard does it | 00:33 |
| lcuk | need to find, or needed? | 00:33 |
| frals | need to find | 00:33 |
| frals | because the method i use now sometimes misses | 00:33 |
| frals | if the displayname i get from dbus is not the same as listed there i wont find it in my parsing | 00:34 |
| lcuk | ok then - you are heading to .fi again i n5days arent you? | 00:35 |
| lcuk | you know something frals - the bot used on meego to reduce conversations down to minutes | 00:36 |
| lcuk | would be really useful sometimes! | 00:36 |
| lcuk | because we have gone over a load of subjects | 00:37 |
| frals | lcuk: yes, barring any flight problems im there sun-tuesday | 00:37 |
| lcuk | and need to boil this down into a couple of todos and followups and for laters | 00:37 |
| frals | hehe | 00:37 |
| lcuk | i see the biggest issue to be getting the correct settings and those are in motion somewhat :) | 00:39 |
| frals | yepp | 00:39 |
| lcuk | if any UX designers _Lucretia_ aSIMULAtor GeneralAntilles jevin rantom simeoni t7g__ tKMFDM want to step up and have a look at what we have discussed, your input would be more than welcome | 00:40 |
| lcuk | (tomorrow etc) | 00:40 |
| frals | yes, it be much appreciated :) | 00:41 |
| lcuk | frals, i am heading >>> for the night - theres a google log of this conversation and we can fine tune anything :) ill let you know how my side goes and you can go from yours and hopefully we will meet in the middle | 00:42 |
| frals | cheers, thanks for the help | 00:42 |
| lcuk | \o | 00:43 |
| frals | nn :) | 00:43 |
| _Lucretia_ | lcuk: que? | 01:08 |
| lcuk | _Lucretia_, just a big conversation about the fmms app for maemo, if you want to have your say have a read, look at the pretty pictures :) | 01:08 |
| lcuk | comment | 01:08 |
| _Lucretia_ | ah | 01:10 |
| _Lucretia_ | I would this, there should be the settings there, but we shouldn't have to put them in. the settings get sent to the phone by the operator (mine does - I'm on 3, so does O2). Also, the phone number is available from the SIM, although no nokia I've ever had actually allowed you to get it back, but I have a sony ericsson which will show you what your number is | 01:13 |
| _Lucretia_ | connection mode? really necessary? seems like a hack to me | 01:14 |
| frals | connection omde is necessary as kernel is lacking networking namespaces so cant keep track of two separate connections properly, but for some people my workaround works which is why its there :) | 01:16 |
| _Lucretia_ | cant it just go via the currently active connection or does it have to go through the phone's mms settings? | 01:18 |
| frals | has to go through separate connection which is operator specific | 01:19 |
| _Lucretia_ | is it possible to patch the kernel to fix it? | 01:19 |
| frals | no idea, im not a kernel hacker, but seeing as none has volunteered it seems nontrivial | 01:20 |
| _Lucretia_ | lcuk: btw, what did you mean by "UX designer" ? | 01:20 |
| _Lucretia_ | right | 01:20 |
| frals | also forcing users to do a kernel change is less than optimal :) | 01:20 |
| _Lucretia_ | frals: you talk to nokia and get any answers? | 01:20 |
| frals | yeah | 01:21 |
| _Lucretia_ | frals: I was thinking more of a include in next update kind of thing | 01:21 |
| _Lucretia_ | you asked nokia about it? | 01:21 |
| * _Lucretia_ has used forum.nokia before and knows you don't get far with em | 01:21 | |
| frals | i consider it highly unlikely they backport the features and push it to the n900 :) | 01:22 |
| _Lucretia_ | but, have you asked nokia about it? | 01:22 |
| _Lucretia_ | and, this is a feature that's in a future kernel? | 01:22 |
| frals | its in base as of 2.6.33 afaik | 01:23 |
| _Lucretia_ | think we need a poll then | 01:23 |
| lcuk | _Lucretia_, the people in here are user experience (UX) designers | 01:23 |
| lcuk | or some | 01:24 |
| _Lucretia_ | oh, i'm not | 01:24 |
| * _Lucretia_ is looking into getting gnat working for arm (n900 included) | 01:24 | |
| lcuk | cool | 01:24 |
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| PortaLu | frals: gotta q, trying to put the settings from http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS#Three_UK into fmms, just fails | 01:46 |
| frals | fails how? | 01:47 |
| frals | using which version? | 01:47 |
| PortaLu | latest | 01:47 |
| frals | btw can take it in private not to clog log here | 01:47 |
| PortaLu | i have an mms for collection, just wont get it | 01:47 |
| PortaLu | ok | 01:47 |
| lcuk | frals, can also keep it out here not for log clogging, but to try to find way to help together | 01:47 |
| frals | mhm true | 01:48 |
| frals | [00:47:48] <frals> ok | 01:49 |
| frals | [00:47:51] <frals> upgrade to 0.9.6 | 01:49 |
| frals | [00:48:17] <frals> previous ones had loads of issues with config dialog | 01:49 |
| PortaLu | k | 01:49 |
| frals | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/fmms/0.9.6/ | 01:50 |
| frals | it should be in repos by now | 01:50 |
| frals | if you do an update in app manager it should show 0.9.6, checking on my device now to confirm it is | 01:51 |
| frals | yeah, update and it should show you 0.9.6 .) | 01:51 |
| PortaLu | yyup getting it now | 01:52 |
| lcuk | frals, so Three issue was known and fixed in this update? | 01:52 |
| lcuk | or is this to make sure on latest | 01:52 |
| frals | this is to make sure the configuration dialog is working | 01:52 |
| frals | :D | 01:52 |
| lcuk | :) reasonable enough | 01:52 |
| frals | because it didnt save properly and what not in previous versions :) | 01:52 |
| * lcuk nods | 01:53 | |
| PortaLu | "failed to download message" | 01:53 |
| frals | right open the configuration from the app menu | 01:54 |
| frals | what is connection mode set as? | 01:54 |
| frals | also, enter "APN configuration" and make sure settings match with whats on the wiki | 01:54 |
| frals | (3 MMS settings are missing from /etc/operator_settings :() | 01:54 |
| PortaLu | polite | 01:55 |
| frals | ok, then you need to connect manually to the internet connection called "MMS" before it can download the message | 01:55 |
| PortaLu | proxy is that number, port same, mmsc also | 01:55 |
| frals | access point name is same as well ye? | 01:55 |
| PortaLu | i actually have 2, one is 3 mms which is from 3, the other is mms | 01:56 |
| frals | connect to the one called "MMS" | 01:56 |
| frals | and then click on the message | 01:56 |
| frals | anything? | 01:59 |
| PortaLu | nop | 02:00 |
| frals | ok try connecting to "3 MMS" and repeat and see if that works | 02:01 |
| PortaLu | right, i tried just connecting, then getting it, failed, tried going into the mms connection and set the "use proxy" flag and it still fails | 02:01 |
| frals | ok then i need your log file to analyze whats going wrong | 02:02 |
| frals | have you used the terminal before? | 02:02 |
| PortaLu | nop | 02:02 |
| PortaLu | yeah | 02:02 |
| frals | right open the terminal, and enter: cp /tmp/fmms.log /home/user/MyDocs/ | 02:03 |
| frals | which will copy the log file to MyDocs and from there you can find it in the mailclient on phone or when attaching the device as mass storage device | 02:03 |
| frals | then mail the file to fmms@frals.se and ill take a look at it | 02:03 |
| PortaLu | ok, trying now, not sure if i've got it set up right here | 02:06 |
| frals | ok i really have to go to bed now or ill be knackerd all day tomorrow but if you drop me the log in an mail saying we talked on irc and your ircnick ill get back to you tomorrow | 02:15 |
| PortaLu | yeah, mail client just wont connect | 02:20 |
| PortaLu | i'll send it | 02:20 |
| frals | crap turns out the dialog is still busted in 0.9.6 as i uploaded the package with the old god damn code, might be why its not working | 02:26 |
| lcuk | frals "facepalm version" ;) | 02:27 |
| frals | lcuk: "dont ask" version ;) | 02:28 |
| * lcuk giggles | 02:32 | |
| lcuk | PortaLu, hope you get sorted tomorrow | 02:32 |
| PortaLu | well, this mail client just wont connect to my smtpd | 02:36 |
| lcuk | just plug in usb to your computer and find the log from within there | 02:36 |
| PortaLu | finally sent | 02:37 |
| PortaLu | no encryption, which isn't good | 02:37 |
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| rantom | lcuk: I'm not an UX-designer, I'm here just for the chat | 07:09 |
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| lcuk | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ui-irclog/%23maemo-ui.2010-04-20.log.html#t2010-04-20T21:04:35 | 21:05 |
| lcuk | incase anyone lost scroll back from last night | 21:05 |
| MiXu- | the screenshots look promising | 21:09 |
| lcuk | MiXu-, hehe the entire app is more than promising, principle thing i was trying to do was fill dialogs with details so users get a smooth ride through without complication | 21:10 |
| MiXu- | Maybe I'll try it out. Which repo is it in? | 21:15 |
| frals | -devel :) | 21:15 |
| MiXu- | ok | 21:19 |
| MiXu- | does fmms have a timeout if it fails to send the mms? | 21:42 |
| frals | yeah, the connection to the MMSC timesout after 30 seconds, or, it should - then add time for resizing and other stuff ;o | 21:43 |
| frals | but if it goes on for much longer than 2 minutes id love to see the log file :) | 21:45 |
| MiXu- | where does the log go? | 21:57 |
| frals | /tmp/fmms.log | 21:57 |
| aSIMULAtor | just saw your url with some screencaps of the dialogs and fmms so far..does look promising indeed | 23:03 |
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| frals | thx aSIMULAtor - any hints on what can be improved? :) | 23:10 |
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