IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Thursday, 2013-07-25

*** unclouded has joined #maemo-ssu00:18
*** NIN101 has quit IRC00:37
*** Martix has quit IRC01:03
*** Martix has joined #maemo-ssu01:04
*** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC01:07
*** Martix has quit IRC01:33
*** kolp has quit IRC02:03
*** nox- has quit IRC02:12
*** bromide has joined #maemo-ssu02:24
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-ssu02:44
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC03:25
*** LauRoman has quit IRC03:42
Drathirsad that mplayer dont have acceleration, but also without is good for mysic except situation when stuck in the same time lock phone enabled, or charger connected...04:39
*** amiconn has quit IRC05:32
*** amiconn_ has joined #maemo-ssu05:32
*** amiconn_ is now known as amiconn05:32
*** M13 has joined #maemo-ssu06:28
*** RST38h has quit IRC07:04
*** bromide is now known as discopig07:35
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo-ssu08:32
*** Pali has joined #maemo-ssu08:42
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC08:55
*** Martix has joined #maemo-ssu09:13
*** kolp has joined #maemo-ssu09:56
*** Martix has quit IRC10:13
*** piscodig has joined #maemo-ssu11:20
*** discopig has quit IRC11:23
*** piscodig is now known as discopig12:00
*** macmaN has quit IRC12:01
*** discopig has quit IRC12:06
*** Pali has quit IRC12:07
*** discopig has joined #maemo-ssu12:07
*** discopig is now known as bromide12:08
*** Pali has joined #maemo-ssu12:09
*** macmaN has joined #maemo-ssu12:10
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo-ssu12:34
*** macmaN has quit IRC12:42
*** macmaN has joined #maemo-ssu12:43
*** macmaN has quit IRC12:43
*** macmaN has joined #maemo-ssu12:43
*** Pali has quit IRC13:09
*** lizardo has joined #maemo-ssu13:45
*** Pali has joined #maemo-ssu13:52
*** M13 has quit IRC14:03
*** sunny_s has quit IRC14:48
*** NIN101 has quit IRC16:36
*** NIN102 has joined #maemo-ssu16:36
*** RST38h has joined #maemo-ssu16:41
*** NIN102 is now known as NIN10116:52
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I think same rationale as for nicocam applies here. As long as it doesn't fix severe bugs, we don't see a reason why to forcefeed replacements of stock functions onto users17:41
PaliDocScrutinizer05: it is for *-devel* only17:41
DocScrutinizer05ooh, devel. You can do whatever you like on devel17:41
DocScrutinizer05it's a playground fo devels17:42
DocScrutinizer05and it doesn't introduce any indication about such a package will go to mandatory mp of cssu-t eventually17:43
Paliyes, only for devel, so testers can test new version in easy way17:43
DocScrutinizer05it's basically just to test optional cssu-only packages17:43
DocScrutinizer05:nod: don't see any problem with this17:43
Palinote that application with name mediaplayer has special permission in OHM and alsaped17:44
DocScrutinizer05that's what cssu-devel is meant for17:44
Paliso current OMP stored not under mediaplayer name not working correctly in maemo system17:44
DocScrutinizer05mhm17:44
Paliand devel is good place for testing if replacement working fine will all OHM & alsaped features17:44
DocScrutinizer05so I guess that's a bug in OMP17:44
Palino it is bug in Maemo17:44
DocScrutinizer05is mediaplayer hardcoded in OHM or alsa?17:45
Palionly one application with name mediaplayer has some additional rights in Maemo system17:45
Paliyes, it is hardcoded17:45
Pali(name)17:45
DocScrutinizer05UGH!17:45
DocScrutinizer05now THATS a bug17:45
Paliyes, it is bug in maemo17:45
Palibut alsaped is closed17:45
DocScrutinizer05but that needs to get solved on maemo level, not on mediaplayer app level17:46
Paliyes, but there are no people which understand that OHM/policy/dres/alsaped/... maemo craps...17:46
Palidres polices is closed too17:46
PaliOHM daemon with all plugins was opened17:47
DocScrutinizer05never even heard of it17:47
DocScrutinizer05(dres)17:47
Paliit is some virtual stack machine which interpret some binary policy files17:48
Palijonwil know something about it17:48
Palihe found maemo developer which implemented it on n900 in nokia17:48
*** jon_y has quit IRC17:50
*** jon_y has joined #maemo-ssu17:50
*** Pali has quit IRC18:17
*** Pali has joined #maemo-ssu18:17
*** dhbiker_ has quit IRC18:27
*** Martix has joined #maemo-ssu18:57
*** macmaN has quit IRC18:59
*** macmaN has joined #maemo-ssu19:01
*** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC19:12
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo-ssu19:18
sixwheeledbeastOMP, Worldclock and even in the near future Qalender in CSSU Devel would be good IMO. TBH I'd remove the default file manager and have Hamster if I could. However this is possibly a step too far as it's not a direct replacement. IMO we should consider replacing closed components for these open rewrites in the future.19:43
DocScrutinizer05I don't see the rationale for that19:49
sixwheeledbeastThey're open source and are supported by devs. I don't see why not?19:51
sixwheeledbeastcamera-ui was replaced it's the same thing. Replacing things for applications that can be community supported.19:58
DocScrutinizer05because of opensource is not a reason in itself. While it adds to the workload of maintainers and also to the risk for users19:58
DocScrutinizer05as soon as somebody wants to *do* sth about any such component, to fix a bug or provide some elemantay improvement, that's a reason19:59
DocScrutinizer05opensource alone is no reason to "touch a working system"20:00
DocScrutinizer05amd camera-ui been a mistake20:00
DocScrutinizer05there's no good reason to forcefeed it to users20:00
DocScrutinizer05since it easily can go optional20:01
DocScrutinizer05general policy is: nothing will go mandatory unless other stuff depends on it, or it by itself introduces general system instability or otherwise severely impacts on UX in a negative way that needs to get fixed. For camera-ui that doesn't apply, so it should've gone optional or maybe optional-alternative20:04
DocScrutinizer05there's been absolutely zero reason to make it mandatory20:06
sixwheeledbeastHaving to have the stock application and an additional application for media/calender/clock seems stupid when they have the same functionality. Also these 3 I have listed were rewritten due to bugs/UX annoyances anyway.20:13
DocScrutinizer05"to have"?20:16
DocScrutinizer05I don't know what you suppose somebody would "have to have"20:16
DocScrutinizer05the stock apps exist and are available and deployed to every user20:17
DocScrutinizer05it's stupid to force an alternative to every user for the sole sake of "it's FOSS now" - users first instance don't give a F about it20:18
DocScrutinizer05if some user is interested in "my system shall be FOSS only" then they are free to install optional alternatives20:19
DocScrutinizer05if those are available20:19
DocScrutinizer05again, there's no reason to forcefeed those alternatives to everybody20:19
DocScrutinizer05maemo is no monolithic block that has to consist of a precisely defined immutable set of apps20:21
DocScrutinizer05Nokia's idea of a monster metapackage was a silly idea, borne from a corporate mindset thinking20:22
DocScrutinizer05and CSSU is not about redefining that template for all users, to move a uniform maemo UX towards some defintion done by a few devels who think they know better what's nice and useful for all users. CSSU first and foremost is about fixing bugs and offering alternatives. Freedom of choice, not new rules. And you could consider mp-fremantle-pr as a bug in itself since it introduces restrictions that are not justified by any technical or20:27
DocScrutinizer05organizational need20:27
sixwheeledbeastI like to see if the maemo community agrees... From a "some user" POV there are no changes due to them being rewrites of the stock application anyway! They should/would be happy for the bug fixes/UX fixes/dev support.20:32
sixwheeledbeastLIke camera-ui2 users20:32
DocScrutinizer05I'm NOT happy with camera-ui220:34
DocScrutinizer05and it's basically irrelevant how many users opt against their own freedom of choice20:34
DocScrutinizer05they will get it nevertheless, for the sake of those 5% who insist in it20:35
DocScrutinizer05or are you Devo fan? "freedom of choice, is what we got - freedom from choice, is what we want"20:36
DocScrutinizer05democracy also means protection of minorities, and never introduce restrictions for anybody if they are not needed20:39
DocScrutinizer05even when 99.99% of a poll say "I don't mind about whether or not that restriction gets implemented. It doesn't have any effect on my life"20:40
DocScrutinizer05there is a way to provide stuff like camera-ui and OMP and whatnot else without forbidding the usage of the twin stock apps for those who would prefer that. No matter how many or how few those are20:42
DocScrutinizer05so no masses shouting "force it to everybody since we think it's the right thing to do" should rule on that20:43
DocScrutinizer05everybody is free to *OPT* for the FOSS alternatives20:43
DocScrutinizer05for their own litte world err system20:44
DocScrutinizer05if you want to satisfy those masses even further: create a MP depending on all the alternatives, thus they once install one package cssu-foss-alternatives and they're done20:45
DocScrutinizer05but still everybody not happy with this approach is free to not install the MP, and thus stay on stock for camera and install OMP explicitly20:46
*** Pali has quit IRC20:46
DocScrutinizer05I don't see a better approach than this one20:46
*** Pali has joined #maemo-ssu20:47
sixwheeledbeastWell if that's the way forward then camera-ui2 has to be in CSSU-FOSS package IMO.21:00
sixwheeledbeastAlso CSSU-FOSS should remove non-required stock applications on installation and re-install stock applications on removal.21:02
*** macmaN has quit IRC21:40
*** M13 has joined #maemo-ssu21:41
*** M13 has quit IRC21:46
* sixwheeledbeast awaits the "21.2011.38-1SmaemoX.X+thumb+fossalt" era then ;)21:49
*** Pali has quit IRC22:15
*** ruskie has quit IRC22:17
*** chainsawbike has quit IRC22:17
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC22:17
*** tom___ has quit IRC22:17
*** ruskie has joined #maemo-ssu22:18
*** chainsawbike has joined #maemo-ssu22:18
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo-ssu22:18
*** tom___ has joined #maemo-ssu22:18
*** Martix has quit IRC22:20
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC22:20
*** XDS2010_ has quit IRC22:20
*** Martix has joined #maemo-ssu22:21
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo-ssu22:21
*** XDS2010_ has joined #maemo-ssu22:21
*** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC22:23
*** jon_y has quit IRC22:23
*** infobot has quit IRC22:24
*** tg has quit IRC22:24
*** jon_y has joined #maemo-ssu22:29
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo-ssu22:35
*** infobot has joined #maemo-ssu22:35
*** tg has joined #maemo-ssu22:35
*** leguin.freenode.net sets mode: +v infobot22:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: we should have some kind of UI to select between package versions, yes23:39
keriobut otoh, writing UIs is such a major pain in the ass23:39
DocScrutinizer05I think there is such UI23:40
DocScrutinizer05called HAM23:40
DocScrutinizer05and for the friggin metapackage you can for sure ship that via unpatched HAM23:40
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo-ssu23:43
keriothe metapackage needs to go, imo23:44
kerioso you can make stuff like the builtin mediaplayer a user package23:44
kerioso users can, for instance, install OMP and uninstall stock23:45
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:54

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!