IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Thursday, 2013-01-24

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DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:11:42] <Pali> DocScrutinizer05, nokia should not change gpg key on their repository13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:11:49] <Pali> it can be bigger problem13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:11:57] <DocScrutinizer05> please discuss it with other guys, I don't want to send Nokia incomplete info13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:11:59] <freemangordon> Pali: why?13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:12:12] <DocScrutinizer05> can we move that to ssu chan please?13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:12:19] <Pali> freemangordon, because updating HAM config file is hard13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:12:39] <Pali> but in HAM are no expiration dates13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:12:47] <DocScrutinizer05> can we move that to ssu chan please?13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:12:47] <freemangordon> Pali: we have a non-expired key on the devices, why resigning the repo with it should bring problems?13:13
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-24 12:12:49] <Pali> only fingerptints of gpg keys13:13
Palieach gpg key in HAM is associated with some apt repo13:14
Paliand extras gpg key is for extras repository13:14
freemangordonPali: "MaemoSW Admin <admin@maemo.research.nokia.com>" is the key we talk about13:14
Palino13:14
freemangordonyes13:14
Palithat key not used13:14
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freemangordonit is not used now13:14
PaliNokia repository signing key 4v213:15
freemangordonbut why it can't be used?13:15
freemangordonI know13:15
DocScrutinizer05*could* it get used?13:15
Palifreemangordon, because that key is not in HAM13:15
DocScrutinizer05hah!13:15
Paliyou can use it, if you update HAM deb package13:15
merlin1991Pali: it is13:15
Palireally?13:16
PaliI can look at that deb package13:16
merlin1991its the D2272FB7...4510B055 key13:17
merlin1991Pali: the only repo not covered by the key is extras13:17
kerioand extras doesn't have a problem, yet13:18
merlin1991ovi, nokia-system and nokia-certified domains all have that key (even as first)13:18
keriothe question is, does nokia have that private key?13:19
Palilook here: http://pastebin.com/vePUvER713:19
Palikeys stored in ./usr/share/hildon-application-manager/keys/variant-keys.gpg13:20
Paliin package hildon-application-manager-settings-standard_16+0+0m5_all.deb13:20
Palithere is no "MaemoSW Admin <admin@maemo.research.nokia.com>"13:20
Palikey13:20
merlin1991oh ffs sake, it's in /usr/share/hildon-aplication.manager/domains/variant-domains.xexp but not in the gpg file13:21
merlin1991jesus13:21
merlin1991because the fingerprint is in the domain file :/13:21
* merlin1991 slaps nokia13:21
Palihere is domain file: http://pastebin.com/ATH23z9Y13:21
Pali./usr/share/hildon-application-manager/domains/variant-domains.xexp from package hildon-application-manager-settings-standard_16+0+0m5_all.deb13:22
merlin1991<key>D2272FB7FD2F9633EC90DF4A34385C4D4510B055</key> that's the key13:22
merlin1991but the gpg does not contain it, silly nokia13:22
freemangordonso, the only thing that could work is fmtx-enabler?13:24
merlin1991basically anything in extras that installs another set of keys13:25
merlin1991(together with domain info, ...)13:25
Paliso better is to not change key13:26
DocScrutinizer05sorry for spamming...13:26
DocScrutinizer05If I may, one additional question: As GPG supports expiration date13:26
DocScrutinizer05extension, is it possible to just update the GPG key expiration date in13:26
DocScrutinizer05the N900 device as well?13:26
DocScrutinizer05In other words, if we'd update the key in the Akamai/SSU end (this is13:26
DocScrutinizer05already done), and then we'd update the key in the N900 device, would13:26
DocScrutinizer05that still keep the trust chain intact so stuff could be downloaded to13:26
DocScrutinizer05the device from the SSU?13:26
DocScrutinizer05All the best,13:26
DocScrutinizer05-Matti13:26
PaliGPG expiration date can be changed by adding new signature to main gpg key13:26
Paliso you need to import new signature to gpg keyring13:27
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Palisignature can create only owner of private key13:27
DocScrutinizer05yes, so we're again back to "deploy a key update via extras, or by other means"13:28
Paliso I think that Nokia do not need to update apt signatures on ssu server13:28
DocScrutinizer05"or reflash"13:28
Palinokia only need to publish new signature13:28
Paliand we need to import it into n90013:29
PaliDocScrutinizer05, yes reflash or user input will be always needed13:30
PaliI wrote that in mail too13:30
DocScrutinizer05yes, I know, and I agree13:31
Palithis is reason why update via PCSuite should be13:31
DocScrutinizer05even with this13:31
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keriohold on13:31
DocScrutinizer05your arguments why we should do PCsuite reflash are better than mine why we shouldn't13:32
keriomaemosw admin *is* checked by apt and ham13:32
kerioand the key is in /usr/share/keychains or something13:32
keriohm, now i actually don't know if HAM will accept that13:32
Palikerio, that key is not in HAM13:33
Paliread irc log13:33
Paliand pastebin13:33
kerioPali: apt-key list13:34
jonwilso basically we are stuck with no way to push anything to N900s to solve this key mess?13:34
Palikerio, key is missing in /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/keys13:34
DocScrutinizer05(irclog) I mailed >> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2013-01-24.log.html#t2013-01-24T13:13:24 << to Nokia13:34
freemangordoncan't we try it? i.e. remove CSSU-testing-testing key from HAM (whatever that means) and push an update to cssu-testing-testing13:34
kerioPali: is that the only directory that's checked?13:34
Palikerio, I do not know13:34
kerio(i can't, for the life of me, figure out where's the source to apt-worker)13:34
PaliHAM is really really **** SW13:34
keriooh, here it is13:35
freemangordon(on a CSSU device that is)13:35
freemangordonPali, merlin1991: ^^^ ?13:35
keriothere's no mention of gnupg in the apt-worker file13:36
keriothere's a bunch of apt-pkg13:36
jonwilok, so if apt-key (which is a shell script) displays the MaemoSW Admin key, it should be possible to read apt-key script and find out where it gets that key from13:36
kerioso maybe it uses the key checking mechanism of apt13:36
keriojonwil: it's stored in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg13:36
freemangordonI guess HAM could just issue a warning, instead of refusing to ise the repo13:36
keriobut it's actually in the maemointernal-keyring package13:36
freemangordon*use13:36
keriomaemointernal-keyring - The keys for apt-secure for maemo.research.nokia.com.13:37
jonwilok, so the 2 questions we have are firstly whether HAM would accept the core repos again if the right files were signed with the MaemoSW Admin key and secondly whether Nokia has the private half of that key or not13:37
keriojonwil: yep13:38
jonwilok, so has someone asked Nokia if they do in fact have the private half of that key anywhere?13:38
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: why shall we ask them?13:38
kerioif i'm reading this correctly, apt-worker is using debReleaseIndex13:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: because if they do, their effort will be "use a different key for the repo"13:39
keriowhich is trivial13:39
jonwilIf they can sign the official repos with that MaemoSW Admin key, that should make them work again and they dont need to do anything more13:40
DocScrutinizer05if that's feasible then they will check if they have access to that key. If it doesn't work, like Pali claims, there's no use in searching each drawer of a 10k+ company for the private key13:40
DocScrutinizer05simple as that13:40
DocScrutinizer05for us it doesn't make any difference13:40
jonwilok, question, will HAM work if the repository has no signature at all?13:41
jonwilI dont know how HAM and APT works on that score13:41
DocScrutinizer05*sigh*13:41
* jonwil assumes he should have read the chanlog first :P13:41
DocScrutinizer05Pali: could you pastebin your mail please?13:41
DocScrutinizer05it been the best answer so far13:42
freemangordonmerlin1991: could you test what I proposed ^^^?13:42
jonwilbtw, I am still getting nowhere with the GPRS stuff I was working on :(13:43
kerioPali: i think that apt-worker uses apt's verification13:43
freemangordonthat test will make it clear if it makes sense for Nokia to search the drawers13:43
keriothe test will only make sense if there's no .gpg file for that key in /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/keys but the key is still in trusted.gpg13:44
Palimails: http://pastebin.com/r73YzXDh13:44
freemangordonsure13:44
freemangordonkerio: the same situation, but with a different repo we have the control on13:45
Paliso maemo intrnal gpg key is in apt keyring (added in postinst script) and fingerprint is in HAM domain file13:45
Palionly gpg key is missing in HAM keys dir13:46
Paliso ask nokia if has private key of that maemo internal13:46
Paliand ask if can create some testing repository13:46
Paliand sign it13:46
freemangordonPali: we have that, no need to ask nokia13:46
Palithen we can test if key is accpted by nokia13:47
Palifreemangordon, how?13:47
freemangordonby using CSSU repos13:47
freemangordonremove CSSU-devel gpg key from HAM13:47
Palinote that cssu gpg key is in HAM key dir13:47
freemangordonand push some test package in -devel13:47
Paliah, ok13:47
freemangordon:)13:48
Paliok, remove directory /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/keys (backup it)13:48
Paliand test13:48
Paliwhat you can13:48
Palidowngrade package13:48
Paliremove dir13:48
Paliand try to update via HAM13:48
Paliyou need to downgrade metapackage which is visible in HAM13:49
freemangordonwho will do that?13:49
* freemangordon is not ia a mood right now as he had an accident yesterday :(13:49
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: hope you're ok13:51
freemangordonso-so :)13:51
DocScrutinizer05get well soon, pal13:51
freemangordonsome sew work on my head, otherwise I am fine13:51
DocScrutinizer05Pali: you got mail?14:35
Paliyes I got it14:37
DocScrutinizer05please keep me on CC but don't expect me to do further moderation if not needed (IOW I'd like to keep this running on own feet, dedicating my time to some other issue) Do you think this will fly?14:39
DocScrutinizer05Pali: also please check back with your peers here, to confirm your statements you send to them14:42
PaliI'm going to check with cssu-testing if key must be in ham dir14:42
Paliif not, then we can ask if nokia has that internal private key...14:43
DocScrutinizer05great! freemangordon at least will love to hear about the results as well14:43
DocScrutinizer05Pali: please understand that these guys are external, and Nokia is a huge company. It might get difficult to even find out what's possible or not14:44
PaliI understand14:45
Palibut this solution can be ideal14:45
Palino need to update n900 device, no need to change repository14:45
Palionly generate new file Release.gpg14:45
DocScrutinizer05sure, so if it's confirmed to work, it's for sure worth the effort to try and find that key14:45
Palinothing more14:45
Paliaaaah I cannot downgrade :-( 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2 is slow/not working...14:46
Palirepository.maemo.org14:46
DocScrutinizer05shit14:47
PaliI need some cssu-testing mirror14:47
jonwilDo we know if anything requires that the repository be signed? (was this discussed earlier?)14:47
PaliI belive that this will work: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/community-testing/pool/fremantle/free/m/mp-fremantle-community-pr/14:47
DocScrutinizer05yes, it is all been discussed14:47
jonwilok14:47
jonwilso it does have to be signed?14:48
DocScrutinizer05please read Pali's mail he pastebin'ed14:48
DocScrutinizer05or read that wiki page14:48
Palijonwil, we should have signed repositories14:48
jonwilok, well if re-signing the files with the MaemoSW Admin key will work, we should definatly pursue that angle as its the best solution IMO14:50
jonwilotherwise it seems like the "plan B" is to push updates to anyone who has CSSU or can update via PC-Suite (or who finds out about the update and can manually install it)14:52
jonwilwhich if its the only option seems like a good one :)14:53
jonwilin any case I will continue to look into what I can (and cat) reverse engineer (so far, all my attempts to try and reverse engineer the GPRS bits have come up with nothing useful)14:55
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, it is possible to update CSSUT without gpg keys in ham dir /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/keys/15:08
Palinow I started updating15:08
jonwilPali, is that good news or not?15:08
Pali(btw Maemo-Upgrade-Description: really replace Description: in package list - not in details)15:09
PaliI will fix this in cssu metapackage15:09
Palijonwil, it is good news15:09
jonwilok15:09
Paliif nokia find somewhere that internal repo private key, they can fix ssu without any user interaction15:10
jonwilgreat15:10
jonwilSomeone needs to mail nokia then...15:10
jonwil:)15:10
Palithey only need to find that key and regenerate Release.gpg file15:10
Palinotthing more15:10
jonwilyeah15:10
jonwilseems easy enough if they still have that key somewhere15:10
jonwilif not, we move to plan B, whatever that ends up being :)15:11
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I will ask in that email tread15:11
DocScrutinizer05that's why they sent you that mail - to answer their question and help with further suggestions15:14
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freemangordon_Pali: is ham in cssu the same as stock re gpg keys?15:15
Palifreemangordon_ yes it should be15:16
freemangordon_Ok. Great news :-)15:17
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merlin1991freemangordon_: the ham gpg keys come from a different package15:34
freemangordonmerlin1991: so?15:34
freemangordonI guess once we have the repos back, Nokia can push an update ti fix that in a proper way15:35
merlin1991we can patch the ham binary a billion times without touching the keys .)15:35
freemangordon*to15:35
freemangordonmerlin1991: we can't, as we don't have a tool to push anything on non-cssu device :)15:36
freemangordonOr I am missing your idea?15:36
merlin1991your totally missing the base of my statement :D15:37
merlin1991I meant to say that key wise cssu is identical to stock maemo, it only adds keys in other places15:37
freemangordonsorry, I am and will be stupid for a couple of days, would you elaborate? (toldya I had an accident and my head was hit ;) )15:39
freemangordonmerlin1991: aah, got it now :D. That is why I asked someone (and pali did) to remove CSSU gpg kay from HAM and to see what will happen15:48
freemangordon*key15:48
* freemangordon wonders why HAM has gpg keys if they are not used15:53
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keriofreemangordon: what have you checked, btw?15:57
kerioHAM will refresh the repos correctly, it'll just refuse to consider the package as a system package15:57
freemangordonme? nothing, it was Pali15:57
kerioPali: same question15:58
Palifreemangordon, I looked into HAM source and I did not found any code which touching "keys" folder15:58
freemangordonkerio: BTW read the backscroll15:58
Paliso I think that folder is only for sotrage of keys15:58
kerioi did, it's just not clear enough15:58
Paliand in postinst they are imported into apt keyring15:58
kerioPali: yay15:59
kerioso... what about using /usr/share/keyrings for community-ssu-enabler? :)15:59
Paliubuntu using /usr/share/keyrings/ for its keys15:59
keriodebian too15:59
freemangordonkerio: AIUI Pali proved that if Nokia still keeps "SW Admin" key, we are back in the game16:00
kerio^_^16:00
freemangordonwell, the repoas are :D16:00
Palikerio, cssu path of keys are not irrelevant16:00
kerioPali: exactly, so why not use the correct place?16:00
Palikerio, because Maemo and HAM not using correct places too :D16:00
keriojust the nokia keys16:00
keriowhich are irrelevant, except for the extras one16:01
kerio(and maemosw, ofc)16:01
keriowell, now let's just hope that the guys who asked for our help have the power and the will to look for the secret key16:01
freemangordonyep16:01
keriowhat's maemo.research.nokia.com, btw?16:02
kerioor what was it?16:02
keriowhat the hell, no screen on the repos16:06
keriooh, it's in sdktools, isn't it16:07
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keriomeh, tmux is better16:08
Palimerlin1991, freemangordon, DocScrutinizer05: GPG key for CSSU repositories will expire 2013-10-2516:22
Palikey is: pub  1024D/2E6D6F9A 2010-10-26 maemo.org community repositories (fremantle) <repositories@maemo.org>16:22
Palisub  2048g/9F185A1A 2010-10-26 [expires: 2013-10-25]16:22
freemangordonPali: well, there is a plenty of time to fix it16:22
Paliwe should start discussion about it16:23
freemangordononce we have the infra back, yes16:23
Palibecase we need to release STABLE CSSU and make sure that everybody will update CSSU *before* that day16:23
Paliand that stable cssu must have updated GPG key16:24
kerioPali: we could just fix HAM16:24
keriowell, we should do both16:24
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kerioPali: actually, we can just (ab)use merlin1991's key16:25
kerioi'm sure he won't mind16:25
PaliI'm for deteting expiration date from that key16:25
merlin1991kerio: not for stable/ testing16:25
keriomerlin1991: pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease16:25
kerio:316:25
merlin1991the key is only valid for thumb16:26
kerioPali: +1, actually16:26
Palimerlin key is without expiraion date16:26
keriomerlin1991: nope16:26
kerio   <name>community</name>16:26
kerio   <key>3EF6EE85773B629FB2516B795D0E7C4F2E6D6F9A</key>16:26
kerio   <key>3BF3A043AE1A872CBCE84314144B83D58239FA6E</key>16:26
Palinow from cssu domain file I see that we can exchange merlin and "maemo.org community repositories (fremantle)" key16:27
Paliso the worse situation will be to include merlin private key to repository.maemo.org server for signing...16:27
kerioPali: that's a kludge though16:29
keriohowever, i agree that we can remove the key expiration date16:30
Paliso better is to update above key and include it in cssu ASAP16:30
merlin1991hm stable doesn't have the updated cssu enabler yet16:31
keriomerlin1991: so cssu stable users don't have any problem with the nokia repo, hah16:31
kerioin fact, anyone who passed through the old cssu-enabler doesn't have problems, aiui16:32
merlin1991kerio: nope cssu-stable users don't have my key on their device16:32
Paliwhat about pushing cssu enabler to extras (when autobuilder start working)?16:32
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keriobecause the domain information is discarded if you disable the domain check, or something like that16:32
merlin1991yep16:32
merlin1991cssu-stable users simply ignore domains16:32
keriomerlin1991: yeah but even reenabling the check will only set the information for new packages that get upgraded16:33
kerioanyway, can we just disable HAM's domain bullshit?16:33
keriodo the equivalent of red-pill-ignore-wrong-domains 016:33
merlin1991well check what the old cssu-enabler does to apt-worker16:34
merlin1991it's that easy :D16:34
keriomerlin1991: that's a kludge16:34
kerioPali: debian's key for wheezy expires in 201916:35
PaliI'm for deleting expire date16:36
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kerioPali: what if the key gets leaked and someone does a MITM attack on rmo?16:36
PaliIn 2019 maybe nobody will remember how to extend expiration...16:36
kerio...it could happen!16:36
Palikerio, and what happen if we have set expiration?16:37
freemangordonnothing :D16:37
keriowell, they'll only be able to do the attack until the key expires!16:37
Palifor sure MITM attack will not happen day before expiration16:37
Palione week for attack is enought...16:38
kerioi say that we steal merlin1991's key16:38
kerio:D16:38
Palikerio, you need: still some key from zone and upload it to server from that zone16:39
kerioindeed16:39
keriousing merlin1991's key would mean that we don't have to do anything, though16:39
Paliso you need to hack nokia server and add here maemosw key :D16:39
keriooh, not the nokia servers ofc16:39
keriothose MUST use "maemosw admin" at this point16:39
Palior you need to hack maemo.org server, download maemo key, hack merlin server and add to merlin server maemo.org key16:40
kerioif they want to ship updates to current vanilla n900s that don't know about cssu16:40
Paliso if sombody hack servers, why on the earth he will hack another for MITM attack??16:41
Palihe can directly push hacked packages on hacked server...16:41
kerionot necessarily16:41
keriosend a couple of hookers to merlin1991's house16:42
keriothey "distract" him, you then enter and steal the key16:42
merlin1991:D16:42
keriosee? he'll be happy about it16:42
keriomerlin1991: nowhere i said that we'll pay the hookers enough for you to finish, though16:43
merlin1991bastard :D16:44
kerioPali: do we have the secret key for the maemo community repo?16:48
Palimerlin has merlin key (I belive :-)16:48
DocScrutinizer05Pali: thanks for the mail! :-)16:49
keriono, i mean 2E6D6F9A ("maemo.org community repositories (fremantle) <repositories@maemo.org>")16:49
Paliand key for community repo on repository.maemo.org must be on maemo.org because it signing Release file every update16:49
Paliso we need to ask maemo.org maintainer where is...16:50
keriopushing the same key but without an expiration date would work fine i suppose16:50
keriobut are the keyservers going to complain?16:50
Palihow tou want to generate same key??16:51
Palikerio, do you know how to hack RSA, DSA or Elgamal?16:51
kerioPali: gpg --edit-key16:52
kerioand then "expire"16:52
Palithis generating new signature to key16:52
keriobut you need the secret key16:52
kerioof course :)16:52
Paliand you are exporting new signature to keyservers16:52
kerioyeah, but will they accept the new key, overwriting the old one?16:52
kerioit feels dirty16:53
keriolike editing the history in a dvcs after you've pushed it somewhere16:53
Palikeyserver accept *any* key, signature, ...16:53
Palikerio, changing expiration is only creating new signarue16:53
Paliyou are not overwrting key...16:54
Palithen you will see two (or more) signatures: one that key expires at XYZ and second (with newer timestamp) that key expiring at ABC (or never)16:55
kerioi see16:55
Paliwhen you downloading gpg key, you will download all subkeys and singatures16:55
kerioso the most recent one is the one that's downloaded from the keyserver?16:55
Paliand then you decide when key expire16:55
Palikerio, yes16:55
kerioso there's no way to leave the keyservers in an "inconsistent" state, i see16:56
Paliand you never can delete anything pushed to keyserver16:57
Paliyou can only create new signature which changing last state... (e.g. submit revocation)16:58
Palifreemangordon, now when kernel-power is ready we could start to use wiki for cssu kernel patches17:20
Palibut wiki is again not working :-(17:21
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