IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Wednesday, 2012-12-12

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tadzikmerlin1991: is cssu-devel a superset of -testing?00:20
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merlin1991tadzik: no, it's just a bunch of random packages00:21
tadzikok00:22
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*** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo6; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo4.1 | Meeting: Thu. 1900UTC"05:05
*** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo6; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo4.1 | Meeting: Thu. 12-13 1900UTC"05:05
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: still awake?05:06
merlin1991yep05:14
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: ^^05:17
DocScrutinizer05yay, my highlighting audio is borked again05:42
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: you contacted reggie?05:42
merlin1991well after you wrote your email I thought it isn't necessary anymore05:43
DocScrutinizer05somehow reggie still needs an account, to do the ftp transfer05:45
DocScrutinizer05needs credentials for such account05:45
merlin1991true, I'll contact him05:46
DocScrutinizer05I'd however suggest rsync rather than ftp05:46
merlin1991yep05:46
DocScrutinizer05:-D05:47
DocScrutinizer05thanks for handling this05:47
DocScrutinizer05this will be the end of maemo "community" anyway, when tmo goes out of business05:48
merlin1991kinda sorta yes05:48
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders whether to open a yahoo-group or similar shit, and officially announce it as a stand-in for tmo05:49
DocScrutinizer05dang, I seem to recall my co-admin on my server installed some forum or blog or whatever05:50
merlin1991hm does phpbb have a postgres plugin?05:50
DocScrutinizer05nfc05:50
DocScrutinizer05reggie suggested that most foss forum software nowadays has a import function for VBulletin05:51
merlin1991yep phpbb does do postgre05:53
merlin1991and there seems to be a vbulleting converter for it aswell05:59
DocScrutinizer05a) we *need* to archive all the knowledge in historic tmo05:59
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DocScrutinizer05sorry06:02
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-12 04:59:18] <merlin1991> and there seems to be a vbulleting converter for it aswell06:03
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-12 04:59:43] <DocScrutinizer05> a) we *need* to archive all the knowledge in historic tmo06:03
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-12 05:00:05] <DocScrutinizer05> b) we'd maybe want to allow continue using it as a forum06:03
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-12 05:00:45] <DocScrutinizer05> for a) any arbitrary archiving is fine, as long as it allows access and maybe searching06:03
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-12 05:01:26] <DocScrutinizer05> for b) we *might* consider to move the forum elsewhere06:03
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-12 05:02:15] <DocScrutinizer05> of course if we can keep a huge part of the properties and functionality of current tmo, that would be as good as it gets06:03
DocScrutinizer05and i'm honestly concerned about board *again* considering to "ask for volunteers" to administrate tmo06:04
* DocScrutinizer05 figures e*_ volunteering06:05
DocScrutinizer05I'd think current moderators would be a very natural choice for next super-admin06:05
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to get one of those 32GB RAM octocore dedicated server monsters, just to facilitate hosting of maemo stuff06:08
DocScrutinizer05hell, I probably even could reduce my taxes to pay, this way06:09
merlin1991that would be sneaky :D06:10
DocScrutinizer05600EUR for first year, so what. I still could ask for donations to recompensate my expense06:10
merlin1991hm you'd need to seperate the maemo stuff into several machines, I don't know any hoster where you easily get several ips todo it via virtualization, and 3 or 4 distinct server tend to be on the expensive side06:13
DocScrutinizer05err, installing vservers seems a common practice06:13
DocScrutinizer05additional IPs are 10bucks/year each I think06:14
merlin1991well ie hetzner gives you 2 ipv4 addresses, for everything else you need to contact them especially06:14
merlin1991and they don't advertise what their policy is for granting more06:15
DocScrutinizer05IP-Adressen1 inkl., bis zu 4 möglich  (server4you) :-S06:16
merlin1991also I don't really like vservers :D06:16
merlin1991running 5 things on the same machine in vserver for the sake of "security" is kinda moot in my eyes06:17
DocScrutinizer05yup, it's mainly not security but about maintainability06:23
DocScrutinizer05safety06:24
DocScrutinizer05you easily reboot one vserver, without any impact on the other services running on same iron06:24
DocScrutinizer05backup also way easier, in a certain way06:24
merlin1991though why would you ever want to reboot a linux server ;) (unless ofc you got a new kernel installed)06:25
DocScrutinizer05well, every now and then some weird lockups may happen06:25
DocScrutinizer05and when e.g on one vserver the syslog explodes and brings the system to a grinding halt, you just reboot and fix that vserver, while rest of your stuff continues to work as usual06:26
merlin1991in any case, I've mailed reggie myself now, we'll see what happens06:26
DocScrutinizer05but yes, I *think* we could consolidate a *lot*06:27
DocScrutinizer05maybe running everything on one phy box06:27
DocScrutinizer05without vservers06:27
merlin1991I wouldn't run the build servers on the same box as the web presence06:28
merlin1991that would be *awesome* if each and every build brings the forum to a grinding halt :/06:28
DocScrutinizer05better start 'small' but start, than design a monster infra that never gets established and paid for06:28
merlin1991I'd go with 2 servers for small 1 everything but building and 1 build server06:28
DocScrutinizer05how many builds we seen per day last time the buildhost worked06:29
DocScrutinizer05?06:29
DocScrutinizer05how's been the duty cycle?06:30
merlin1991hmbuildhost still works06:30
merlin1991todays import into tiny extras-devel failed due to a fancy new package: Character 0x44 not allowed in package name: 'Defense_Gear'!06:30
DocScrutinizer05does it really matter when we throttle buildhost down to a power where it takes 30min per pkg?06:30
merlin1991well that would be the other way06:31
DocScrutinizer05I mean, octocore, 32GB RAM, c'mon06:31
merlin1991hm security update for perl on debian06:32
DocScrutinizer05this has to be a friggin monster06:32
DocScrutinizer05I really don't think that two servers with 64GB RAM each of Nokia's setup make any sense nowadays06:33
merlin1991hm http://www.debian.org/security/2012/dsa-258206:35
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: hidden06:39
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: maemo.orginfrastructureforHildonFoundation.pdf06:39
DocScrutinizer05nfc why all that stuff isn't public06:39
DocScrutinizer05"slim hosting" -> 11 servers06:41
DocScrutinizer05Virtual Machines - Full Environment                 Current HDD need: 1990 GB06:42
DocScrutinizer0518 VM, 5 dedicated servers with 64GB each06:42
DocScrutinizer05for managing 2TB06:43
DocScrutinizer05and Nokia is *buying* the hw and dumping it at nemein, so board has to pay for colocation - INSANE06:43
DocScrutinizer05board pays for colocation (rackspace, power, network data volume, aircon, hw-service)06:44
DocScrutinizer05AND admin06:44
DocScrutinizer05of nemein, which is of pretty poor quality, in my book06:45
DocScrutinizer05sd69 hopes it will be cheaper than renting a dedicated server 8or two) at e.g. hetzner :-o06:46
DocScrutinizer05I suggested to ask nokia to NOT buy that shitty hardware and rather donate the money to board directly06:47
DocScrutinizer05so we could pay for hosting of several dedicated servers, plus a lot of spare money to pay the openmoko sysadmins who offered to help on a professional paid basis, fultime06:48
DocScrutinizer05aiui Nokia is even willing to pay arbitrary amounts of migration effort, but so far only if that's done by ... (again) nemein :-(06:49
DocScrutinizer05I guess they insist on nemein since with them they already have contracts (and NDAs), and so Nokia doesn't need to worry about what to migrate and what to keep/delete from those irons06:51
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: yeah, hmm06:56
DocScrutinizer05(xen)06:56
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I have a school-mate who is one of the owners of the datacenter, wonder shall I ask him if he can and is willing to help09:15
freemangordon*a datacenter09:15
DocScrutinizer05which datacenter?09:15
DocScrutinizer05aaah, a* datacenter09:15
freemangordon3DS, here in Bulgaria09:16
DocScrutinizer05well, any donations welcome09:16
freemangordonlemme see if they have webpage09:16
freemangordondonations?09:16
DocScrutinizer05provide a server for example09:16
freemangordonyeah, but what for?09:17
DocScrutinizer05for now for installing and running tmo on it09:17
freemangordonwe lack server to run TMO on?09:17
DocScrutinizer05in a month for general maemo infra09:17
DocScrutinizer05at the moment we lack any server09:17
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: but what with those servers Nokia will buy?09:18
freemangordonor I am missing something09:18
DocScrutinizer05that's nonsense09:18
DocScrutinizer05you can't buy servers09:18
freemangordonelaborate please09:18
DocScrutinizer05you rent hosting09:18
freemangordonsure you can09:18
DocScrutinizer05sure, and then you have a friggin expensive hardware which you need to service on your own, and pay a fortune for colocation09:19
DocScrutinizer05absolute nonsense09:19
freemangordonagree, but afaik that's what will happen09:19
DocScrutinizer05it's like donating a beggar a rolls royce with not even gasoline in the tank, parked in a no-parking zone09:20
freemangordon:D09:20
DocScrutinizer05if the beggar is a smartass, he will sell that shit as long as it's not towed away09:21
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i understand what you mean, but nevertheless HF will own those servers, so someone should find a way to gain something09:21
freemangordonbe it money or whatever09:21
DocScrutinizer05no, I still hope HF is rejecting this poisoned offer09:21
freemangordonand without infra maemo is doomed09:21
DocScrutinizer05for the fee for first month of colocation we probably can rent dedicated servers for one year and still have spare money for paying professional admins09:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm already pondering to sponsor one dedicated server for one year09:23
DocScrutinizer05so don't tell me we need to accept that schierling cup from Nokia09:24
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I am telling nothing to you ;)09:24
DocScrutinizer05cup of hemlock is the right english term09:25
freemangordonI was wondering if I could be of any help with this guy09:25
DocScrutinizer05as I told you, any donations of hosting welcome09:25
DocScrutinizer05also professional administration welcome09:26
* kerio donates a vm on his home server09:26
DocScrutinizer05contact me when you plan to offer the latter09:26
kerioit's got *twice* the ram a n900 has!09:26
freemangordonwell, ok, i'll try to reach him today or tomorrow for some preliminary talking09:27
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you think nokia is offering that on purpose?09:27
DocScrutinizer05anyway 2013-01-01 is definitive deadline for tmo, unless we find sponsoring of USD 468 / month, to push this for a month or two09:28
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what are those money for?09:29
kerioi say static mirror and new forum09:29
DocScrutinizer05reggie's server hosting09:29
freemangordonwhere is that hosted?09:29
DocScrutinizer05whois is your friend09:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: come on09:29
DocScrutinizer05nfc if you prefer that answer09:30
freemangordonwhich country?09:30
DocScrutinizer05US?09:30
keriowhois doesn't have info about the hosting09:30
DocScrutinizer05kerio: it has, if you know how to establish that09:30
freemangordonsomeone told something about the difference in privacy laws in US and EU09:30
DocScrutinizer05US privacy is moot09:31
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: any estimate on storage space/traffic?09:32
DocScrutinizer05reggie told "tmo is running from my own server (at least the one I've been renting)"09:32
DocScrutinizer053.8G09:32
DocScrutinizer05traffic no clue09:33
DocScrutinizer05you generally don't buy any hosting that has limited traffic09:33
DocScrutinizer05way too risky09:33
freemangordon4GiB? that's nothing, one can host it on n900 :D09:33
DocScrutinizer05sure09:34
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if that includes file attachments though09:34
DocScrutinizer05neither do I know if those are of any significant size for tmo09:34
freemangordonI guess 3x72 GB in RAID5, 4/8 GB RAM and 2 or 4 CPUs will do the job easily09:35
DocScrutinizer05honestly, technically we can run all maemo infra on a server costing 50EUR/month09:36
freemangordonif we talk about hardware, not virtual server09:36
freemangordonok, i'll see what I can do.09:36
DocScrutinizer05for tmo your specs should suffice for sure09:37
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: in the meantime could you discuss ^^^ with the rest of the council and (maybe) with the board.09:37
freemangordonI want to know the "official" position on the matter before going into preliminary negotiations09:38
DocScrutinizer05the "official" position is: board think council shall announce the facts on ML and TMO, on behalf of reggie, and board is in a pinch and hopes for something magically moving09:40
DocScrutinizer05while reggie is willing to "donate" the database to board/council/whomever09:41
DocScrutinizer05and will shut down server on 1-1 unless somebody paying the server hosting fee for January for him09:42
freemangordonis that info available in public?09:43
DocScrutinizer05for very obscure reasons it's not09:43
freemangordon:(09:43
freemangordonwho is ahead of the council? mentalist?09:44
DocScrutinizer05it consists of private mail between ivgalvez(?) and reggie, which the former forwarded to council at m.o09:44
DocScrutinizer05council has no head09:44
DocScrutinizer05mentalist traceur is our chairman, means he's doing the protocols etc09:45
freemangordonaah, ok09:45
DocScrutinizer05I'm designated admin in chief of board's servers to be09:46
DocScrutinizer05FWIW09:46
freemangordonwell, ok, will try to find the guy ASAP to see if I can be of any help09:46
DocScrutinizer05ask him if maybe his company wants to donate a server for a year09:47
freemangordonok09:47
freemangordonwill do09:47
freemangordonwill we allow ads if needed?09:47
DocScrutinizer05we're willing to mention the fact, so they can use it in their copmpany image09:47
freemangordonat least hosting company logo or something09:48
DocScrutinizer05no ads though09:48
freemangordon^^^09:48
DocScrutinizer05yea sth like that is for sure feasible09:48
freemangordonok09:48
DocScrutinizer05footer "server hosting courtesy $<ACME-CORP>"09:49
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: any clue how many active users TMO has? an estimate.09:50
DocScrutinizer05shot into the blue: 30k09:50
freemangordonok09:50
DocScrutinizer05though definition of "active" is a tad difficult09:51
freemangordonyeah, got it :)09:51
freemangordonwho will install OS, DB and do the migration?09:51
DocScrutinizer05good question09:51
freemangordonwell, OS should be done locally, thats for sure09:52
DocScrutinizer05I'm still puzzled why Reggie refused09:52
DocScrutinizer05but all in all setting up a vbulletin or phpbb forum on a server shouldn't be that hard09:53
DocScrutinizer05vbulletin lizence costs some 180$ though09:53
DocScrutinizer05licence*09:53
freemangordonsure, but someone have to do it, a real human, it won't happen magically once we have the server09:53
DocScrutinizer05for that we'll find someone09:54
freemangordonper year? does the board have any funds right now?09:54
DocScrutinizer05at least that's my hopes09:54
DocScrutinizer05no funds09:54
DocScrutinizer05zarro09:54
freemangordonhehe09:54
freemangordonok09:54
DocScrutinizer05aiui the licence is infinite09:55
freemangordonaah, one time payment. I see09:55
freemangordonok, i have enough info for now09:55
DocScrutinizer05in the end I'd appreciate when one of the current mods of tmo would volunteer for admin09:56
DocScrutinizer05"owning" that system09:56
DocScrutinizer05alas chem|st is already quite busy with CSSU09:56
DocScrutinizer05otoh it seems the time requirements that Reggie faces right now are not that much either09:57
DocScrutinizer05well, all this is stuff that needs further discussions and clarifications, for now we need a server where we can *run* a tmo-successor09:58
DocScrutinizer05and where the recent tmo db can get transferred to (though merlin1991 is about to get a copy on his server right now)09:59
freemangordon:nod:10:00
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if jolla could do some sponsoring10:00
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: frankly, I am not sure jolla is/could be of any goot to maemo. Don't ask me why, just a gut feeling10:01
freemangordon*good10:01
DocScrutinizer05for sponsoring it doesn't really matter10:01
DocScrutinizer05as long as they don't think they got a word in running the whole stuff10:02
freemangordonare you sure you want a sposor that might get vanished in 6 months?10:02
RST38hAny sponsor can vanish10:02
freemangordonRST38h: sure. but for some it is way easier to happen that for the others10:03
RST38hWill Jolla be willing to sponsor and use tmo/etc as a platform for their community?10:03
freemangordon*than10:03
freemangordonI doubt10:03
RST38hThat would probably be considered as a huge step toward the community10:03
freemangordontheir target user base is totally different from TMO users AIUI10:04
freemangordonthey will gain nothing but rants "I want sailfish on my n900, please"10:05
DocScrutinizer05http://hildonfoundation.org/openletter/  >> Of course, the Foundation is also very concerned with ongoing development within both the Mer and Nemo projects, so facilitating their future is also quite important.<<10:05
DocScrutinizer05aiui jolla heavily depends on nemo / mer, so why shouldn't they sponsor board?10:05
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: imo they already have all of the mer/nemo devs on board, why should they care for HF?10:06
DocScrutinizer05"community"10:07
freemangordonmeh10:07
freemangordonjolla is a corporation fighting to take a piece of the cake10:07
DocScrutinizer05tbh I don't care *why* they would donate, as long as they *do*10:08
freemangordonuntil they got it, "community" is their last concern. IMO of course.10:08
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: sure, but if they were willing to do it, there should be some news on that till now10:09
freemangordon*should have been10:09
DocScrutinizer05they'll need own infra in the long run anyway, so why wouldn't they maybe share it with maemo10:09
freemangordonbecause they gain nothing10:10
DocScrutinizer05I'll ask anyway10:10
freemangordonsure, costs no money :D10:10
DocScrutinizer05first desaster to stop anyway is Nokia donating that rolls royce to board, thus eating up about 10 times the amount of what board can possibly ever rise on funds, just for useless silly colocation10:12
DocScrutinizer05currently the mood in board seems to me like accepting whatever offer to get a server for a month for free, no matter if it can get paid in february10:14
DocScrutinizer05and that's what that Nokia offer basically is: January for free, starting from Feb/Mar it will cost 77 fortunes just for running the infra10:15
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if board could sell those server hw Nokia is buying for them right now10:17
DocScrutinizer05probably not that easy when it's located in a aircon server room $somewhere10:18
DocScrutinizer05I also wonder who's going to swap a HDD if ever needed, on those servers owned by board and unclear where they are actually located10:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: if Nokia is buying new servers, aren't those supposed to be boxed?10:23
DocScrutinizer05unclear10:23
DocScrutinizer05seems they again ordered nemein to do that for them10:23
DocScrutinizer05I really start to get curious who's that nemein10:24
freemangordoni see10:24
DocScrutinizer05http://nemein.com/fi/  :-S10:25
DocScrutinizer05aah a tad better: http://nemein.com/en/10:26
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DocScrutinizer05so, basically nemein is a service provider, here specifically administration service10:29
DocScrutinizer05we (community) can't afford such service, unless they use another tarriff than they did for Nokia10:30
DocScrutinizer05also I'm not all that happy with the quality of their admin service lately - see wiki which is dead since over a month10:31
RST38hWell, if I understand it correctly, for Jolla it would be a really good chance to spread the word and earn somepositive marketing power10:31
RST38hwhile not spending too much10:31
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: that's what I thought as well10:34
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tadzikhmm, the cssu-devel tklock was showing some random black squares on screen at first, then after a few lock-unlock cycles it look okay10:45
tadzikfreemangordon: ^10:45
freemangordontadzik: forced rotation enabled?10:46
tadzikfreemangordon: no10:48
tadzikand -alarm and -powerkeymenu look exactly like before, I don't see anything different so far :)10:50
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chem|stfreemangordon: I push an update with libcurl next week, but I need to be able to build modest myself...11:40
chem|stmerlin1991: how about that idea to have it all run on a server? testing build and stable? that way you build packages and I update git and mp- when need be...11:42
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: running more than two servers is overestimated11:43
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freemangordonchem|st: good. however i just reminded about libcurl312:00
freemangordonchem|st: if you wish i can give you PR1.3 SDK vmware image tar.gz, i have it backed up12:01
freemangordonso you will be able to start from scratch12:01
chem|stfreemangordon: does not change the problem that I have12:06
chem|stI had two steps in scratchbox after a working build... download dev packages for some python crap and built it... then modest was borked12:07
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chem|stI did not logout or something... just those two tasks were done apt-get and building a package after modest12:08
chem|stgoing frenzie next time!12:10
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tadzikfreemangordon: ok, I've got a bug in tklock. Run anything in portrait mode, lock screen, bring up tklock. It blinks for a second, tries to fit in portrait, then vanishes ans a black screen remains13:23
tadzikIt actually works then, when I swipe the finger in the middle of the screen, then the slider bar is drawn and after sliding the screen unlocks13:24
tadzikonly the slider is drawn tho, no clock or anything13:25
freemangordontadzik: confirmed, will check13:25
freemangordonthanks13:25
tadzikthanks as well13:25
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merlin1991chem|st: do I understand correctly, that the idea is we build the packages once, I park them somewhere and you just beuild the new mp using the files I generated?18:44
freemangordonmerlin1991: sounds like a good idea to me18:47
merlin1991hm I'll check if I still have the files18:48
merlin1991but I fear they're gone by now18:48
freemangordonmerlin1991: they are in the repo, at least modest, tinymail and libcurl18:49
freemangordonI don;t think anything has changed18:49
merlin1991yeah we'll just have to handcraft .changes files18:49
freemangordonwhy?18:49
merlin1991because those don't stay in the repo18:50
freemangordonaah, yeah :D18:50
merlin1991repo import looks at changes file, imports everything referenced and discards the .changes file18:50
freemangordonok, ok18:50
freemangordongot it :P18:50
keriois there a way to lock everything except a certain list of applications in landscape mode?18:56
freemangordonkerio: whitelist?18:56
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keriofreemangordon: that doesn't lock in landscape afaik18:57
keriodoes it?18:57
freemangordonit enables force rotation on some of the applications18:57
kerioi want to forcibly disable the rotation on every application except some18:57
freemangordonif an application supports portrait, you can;t lock it to lanscape18:57
kerioi see :(18:57
kerioexcept with the applet18:58
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keriomerlin1991: i still haven't downloaded a pdiff :(20:00
merlin1991kerio: tonights update failed20:00
keriowat20:00
merlin1991Character 0x44 not allowed in package name: 'Defense_Gear'!20:00
keriooh, autobuilder?20:00
kerioFUCKING AUTOBUILDER20:00
merlin1991I didn't have the time yet to see how I can work around that20:01
keriodelete everything20:02
merlin1991:D20:02
kerioand tell the fucker who uploaded it to learn how to properly make a package20:02
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lufmerlin1991: I forget I'll be available tomorrow at till 20:00 and than after 20:30 CET20:09
lufI can't be online from 20:00 to 20:30 :(20:09
merlin1991damn20:10
merlin1991we'll shift topics around then20:10
lufOk.20:10
freemangordonmerlin1991: we have plenty of things to do enyway20:11
freemangordon*anyway20:11
merlin1991my thoughts :)20:11
merlin1991but the more opinions, the better20:11
freemangordonsure20:11
lufI have to stay at work till 20:00 :(20:11
freemangordonmerlin1991: 20:00 CET is 22:00 EEWT?20:12
merlin1991it's 19 utc20:12
luf20 CET is 21 Bulgarian time ;)20:12
freemangordonluf: yeah, thanks :D20:13
freemangordonperfect20:13
lufOh it's true in summer. I think it's also true in winter (but I'm not sure about daylight saving in bulgaria TZ)20:14
freemangordonthe fuck?!? acording to wikipedia Bulgaria is using EET in winter only since 1894!20:15
freemangordonluf: your math is ok, EET is UTC+220:16
freemangordonduring the winter and UTC+3 in summer20:16
kerioluf: just... irc at work?20:17
lufkerio: the same like at uni ;)20:17
keriooh, you actually like your job? neat20:18
lufkerio: yes. I like it so much that I'm going to change the company ;)20:19
kerioi'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not...20:19
* merlin1991 hands kerio a sarcasm detector20:20
* freemangordon hands him another one, to check the results from merlin1991's one20:20
merlin1991what, you don't trust my hw?20:21
freemangordonI trust it, but trust mine more :P20:21
merlin1991bah20:21
lufkerio: I'm sarcastic in first part and serious in the second part20:22
freemangordonluf: so you like your job but not your company?20:24
luffreemangordon: exactly. I like to be sys admin but I don't like the style of work in the company I work now.20:24
freemangordonluf: what's wrong with you? you like to be a sysadmin while having knowledge in C/++ and development in general?20:26
freemangordonI don;t believe it :P20:26
lufBecause I hate to be developer in my job ;)20:26
freemangordonluf: don't tell me sysadmins are better paid than developers in your country20:27
lufEverything has to be done right now without any concept. That I hate in my job.20:27
freemangordonwhat has "liking" to do with the money?20:27
merlin1991:D20:27
lufI have enough money for my life so I don't care. As you know I'm very good sys admin ;)20:27
lufAnd to be honest a lot of developers has lower salary ;) (and a lot of sys admins too)20:28
merlin1991ie me :D20:29
merlin1991then on the other hand, I am *young*20:29
freemangordonluf: trust me, this is the best possible approach. Once a "corporate" style kicks in (read project plans and shit like that), you may start seeing the particular company as going down the drain20:29
freemangordonmerlin1991: yeah20:30
freemangordonluf: strange, here an ordinary developer usually takes twice as much as an ordinary admin20:31
luffreemangordon: I'm not ordinary ;) And here it's same in start position. I trust that top architect or top devel can earn more than top admin. But as I said I earn enough for my life. I don't need more and admin position is usually a little bit quiet not under so high stress (more conceptual).20:34
luf*bit more quiet and20:35
freemangordonthough, the answer from such an admin to my request "dammit, tell stupid XP to NAT from external to internal network" was "noo, XP cannot do that" ;)20:35
freemangordonluf: yeah, makes sense20:35
lufI'm not win admin I'm sys admin :D20:35
freemangordon:D20:35
merlin1991freemangordon: xp can't do that :D20:36
lufBut I have to know win too ...20:36
freemangordonmerlin1991: thats why your sallary is low :P20:36
merlin1991the functionality exists in vista upwards afaik20:36
freemangordonnetsh ip ...20:36
freemangordonmerlin1991: try again20:36
merlin1991well I'm not a win developer20:37
merlin1991oh wait I am20:37
merlin1991damn20:37
lufWhat masochist can use win machine for such thing?20:37
freemangordonmerlin1991: netsh has nothing to do with development, it is built-in command (well, not in shell, but still)20:38
luffreemangordon: BTW as you can read N900 can send file via BT using OPP profile ...20:38
merlin1991freemangordon: it was a joke about knowing ones target platform20:38
freemangordonaah, ok20:39
freemangordonluf: how?20:39
lufBut It's a little bit chaotic to use different BT features in N900.20:39
freemangordonI mean, using dbus?20:39
freemangordon(dbus-launch)20:39
lufFileBox (or how it's called in english), menu Sharing vi BT ;)20:39
freemangordonluf: hmm, I don;t have FileBox(or how it's called) and can send files via BT for the last 2 years or something20:40
freemangordonusing OPP afaik20:41
lufOk, you're not ordinary user ;)20:41
freemangordonstock file manager supports that since PR1.1 iirc20:41
lufYes FileBox is the stock file manager.20:41
freemangordonaah20:41
freemangordonbut, but... thats not new20:41
lufIt's new for me. I never tried sharing for sending files :D20:42
freemangordonclick-n-hold, share20:42
lufshare is passive action in my mind ... I never searched there.20:43
freemangordonluf: you can even do multi-select if you choose "share" from the menu20:44
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_ade_merlin1991: thanks and also sorry22:52
merlin1991where, when, what did I do?22:53
merlin1991_ade_: ^22:53
_ade_thanks for pointing out the issue for uploading Defense Gear, and sorry for the failed attempts22:53
merlin1991ah :D22:53
_ade_I was not aware of naming conventions like no upppercase and underscores22:54
_ade_and I just did not get any proper error message22:54
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merlin1991kerio: I fixed the light-extras-devel import, you should have a pdiff now :23:00
merlin1991+)23:00
keriomerlin1991: i love you <323:01
kerioDocScrutinizer05: extras-devel update used 11kB :D23:01
merlin1991btw _ade_ why did you upload to non-free?23:01
_ade_merlin1991: as I don't have the source itself23:02
_ade_merlin1991: where did you find the error message?23:02
merlin1991I'm running a "light" mirror of extras-devel23:03
merlin1991and the daily cron job importing from maemo.org threw the error23:03
_ade_merlin1991: okay, that means you see that on the "server" side?23:03
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merlin1991well depends on what you define by server side, if maemo.org is server side then my server is client side23:05
_ade_merlin1991: I mean you cannot see in in some public web log?23:06
merlin1991nope23:07
merlin1991btw your package is actually up there: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/D/Defense_Gear/23:07
merlin1991the sw running the maemo repos is kinda not following standards23:08
_ade_merlin1991: I now uploaded it to free, as it gives me response for sure. And the weird thing I now also see the first failed versions appear23:09
_ade_merlin1991: anyway, thanks for pointing out the problem ;)23:10
merlin1991np :)23:12
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_ade_merlin1991: any idea how to remove the version from the non-free repo? I now have two version, as I thought the non-free upload ever arrived :(23:30
_ade_merlin1991: or making the versions equal would make them appear just once in the application manager?23:31
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_ade_merlin1991: no, forget about the  last idea, it would not work, as that package name has the forbidden uppercases and underscore23:36
merlin1991you can try to get a hold of x-fade23:38
merlin1991other than that, it's there untill we have anyone with admin powers23:38
_ade_merlin1991: too bad :( Afaik x-fade is hard to contact23:40

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