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| kerio | freemangordon: FR: hardfp | 00:34 |
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| tadzik | freemangordon: pong | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>>I wonder, how many people are aware of reason, why cssu-extras is "no ETA" for half of a year, or more. It's quite simple - sexy idea in theory, but no one want to waste precious personal time (devs are quite overprojected, anyway), for establishing such thing. After all, if we have perfectly working things like bb-power - that could land in CSSU right ahead - why bother?<<< cubehead | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng estel_ has no friggin clue 'why cssu-extras is "no ETA"' | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since meanwhile he's convinced not only me but also merlin1991 and chem|st are vice-satanas | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, not santa's | 01:20 |
| Skry | oh | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and he the heck doesn't grok it how I can say "no, this won't happen", since he doesn't see my confidence in similar thinking of me and maintainers. He prefers to bitch "Doc, you LIAR! You're no maintainer of CSSU" DAFAQ does it even matter? | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't care if I'm a silly asshole that contributes random rant, a maintainer of CSSU, or Godfather of CSSU and nominator of maintainers. It doesn't matter. simple as that. What matters is condense and merit, and of course competence and sound arguments. Estel_ has none of those three | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | consense* | 01:25 |
| kerio | what matters is codesense! | 01:37 |
| kerio | in xcode! | 01:37 |
| kerio | because java sucks! | 01:37 |
| Skry | so true | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that related to anything said before? | 01:50 |
| kerio | condense/consense/codesense | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict condence | 01:54 |
| infobot | could not find definition for condence | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict consense | 01:54 |
| infobot | could not find definition for consense | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict codesense | 01:54 |
| infobot | could not find definition for codesense | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack | 01:55 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: thanks | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please keep in mind I'm no native speaker (like many others around here) | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (just like you, iirc) | 01:56 |
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| Sc0rpius | Orientation lock applet just appears in the testing version of the CSSU? | 03:52 |
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| merlin1991 | Sc0rpius: it is in the -stable version aswell | 05:27 |
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| Sc0rpius | I see, but as an optional package | 06:06 |
| Sc0rpius | also it seems the new camera-ui is not available in the stable version | 06:06 |
| fredrinLap | n900 people going strong, always some awake | 06:18 |
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| kerio | Sc0rpius: the new camera-ui will be made optional, for stable | 08:09 |
| kerio | Sc0rpius: but it's kind of a weird thing to do, considering that HAM sucks balls | 08:09 |
| kerio | Sc0rpius: also, are you the Yappari dude? | 08:10 |
| kerio | freemangordon: ouch, a dude filled his rootfs while apt-get upgrading | 08:19 |
| kerio | to fix the versions | 08:19 |
| kerio | :c | 08:19 |
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| freemangordon | luf: ping | 12:38 |
| luf | freemangordon: pong - I'm leaving now and I'll be available in the evening. | 12:47 |
| freemangordon | ok, ping me when you have time | 12:47 |
| luf | ok. | 12:47 |
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| andre__ | errm, trying to upgrade to latest CSSU testing I'm told that I need Nokia PC Suite? | 17:41 |
| andre__ | not that I have any Windows machine around... | 17:42 |
| merlin1991 | andre__: update the operator name thingy first | 17:43 |
| andre__ | ah. That was triggered by some "Operator widget" update that was also available. | 17:43 |
| andre__ | yeah. after doing that separately now the CSSU update works. thanks | 17:43 |
| merlin1991 | also pc suite never ever is the right answer, it's just hams way of saying I give up :P | 17:43 |
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| kerio | it's just nokia's way of saying "we're too stupid to figure out how apt works" | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | kerio: would you do me a favour | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/ | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | I'll not be here later on, point luf to the above URL | 17:58 |
| kerio | use noteserv | 17:59 |
| kerio | i'll not be here later on either | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | well, ok | 17:59 |
| kerio | i'm going to see radiohead ^______^ | 17:59 |
| SpacedOut | Pali: I sent an e-mail "power-kernel pull request for suspend to ram fixes" any chance to look at it? | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | SpacedOut: is that you to clone kernel-cssu? | 18:01 |
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| Pali | I got email, but did not looked at it | 18:02 |
| Pali | now going to look at patches | 18:02 |
| SpacedOut | Yes I cloned it and added my changes to what Pali had for the power-kernel. | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | SpacedOut: I looked into the commits, but TBH didn't get the idea | 18:03 |
| SpacedOut | The fix is pretty small, making the usb driver a module is much larger. | 18:03 |
| Pali | first patch - autokick watchdog -> not needed -> we can disable watchdogs with root access | 18:03 |
| Pali | just load watchdog kernel module with nowayout=0 param and send disable watchdog command | 18:04 |
| SpacedOut | That's fine I definitely didn't want the watchdog change enabled by default and so the patch series has it disabled. | 18:04 |
| SpacedOut | I didn't know that. | 18:05 |
| SpacedOut | I organized the patches I cared about the most as the earliest patches, through 'pvr cleanup' was just because I got tired of seeing warnings. | 18:07 |
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| Pali | freemangordon, I can add that patches to kernel power prerelease version | 18:13 |
| freemangordon | Pali: besides PVR patch, what we benefit from the other patches? | 18:14 |
| freemangordon | Pali: BTW are you here for the next few hours? | 18:16 |
| SpacedOut | Suspend to ram is better behaved. If anyone is trying to do any usb development or fixes they can reload the module instead of having to reboot. | 18:16 |
| Pali | yes, I'm here | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | Pali: will you point luf to http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/ | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | I fixed bluetoothd packaging | 18:16 |
| tadzik | freemangordon: you were looking for me? | 18:16 |
| Pali | ok | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | tadzik: yeah, wanted to ask you if there is any progress with opera | 18:17 |
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| tadzik | nothing new yet | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | tadzik: and this http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%29 | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | if anyone needs it | 18:18 |
| tadzik | right, I'll pass it around | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | Pali: thanks. So, do we have all of the bits needed to replace BME? | 18:18 |
| Pali | libbmeipc was not tested! | 18:19 |
| Pali | I only compiled it | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 18:19 |
| Pali | hald-addon-bme worked on my n900 | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | BTW I still not get it why you replace pips with sockets | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | *pipes | 18:19 |
| Pali | I do not know how glib working with pipes (for select) | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | hmm, nothing new here https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/libbmeipc | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | Pali: it is file descripto | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | r | 18:20 |
| Pali | https://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme | 18:21 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: where do your sockets connect? | 18:24 |
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| freemangordon | AIUI you need BME in order to use that libbmeipc | 18:24 |
| Pali | they are not connecting | 18:24 |
| Pali | using socketpair | 18:24 |
| Pali | it create two connected sockets | 18:24 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: I think you still not get how libbme is supposed to work. Might be wrong though. | 18:26 |
| Pali | see https://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme/blobs/replacement/src/bmeipc.c#line252 | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | I see, but cookie is something which BMW provides | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | *BME | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | https://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme/blobs/replacement/src/bmeipc.c#line67 | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | ? | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | what server? | 18:27 |
| Pali | fake server | 18:28 |
| Pali | it read data from one socket part | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | why do you need it? | 18:28 |
| Pali | and write to same part | 18:28 |
| Pali | separate code | 18:28 |
| Pali | it can be in bme_read function | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | what code? it does nothing | 18:28 |
| Pali | bme_packet_write | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I stil cannot understand why you don;t want to use the code here: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/libbmeipc | 18:30 |
| freemangordon | it is tested | 18:30 |
| freemangordon | bme_packet_write is used by hal addon (stock) | 18:30 |
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| freemangordon | my replacement need exactly 3 lines of code to be fully functional, i.e. read the temperature from sysfs | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | evferything iis in place | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | s/iis/else/ | 18:32 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: evferything else in place | 18:32 |
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| fw190 | DocScrutinizer: helo | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | EHLO | 20:34 |
| fw190 | what do you think about openSuse? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should I think about it? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just using it | 20:35 |
| fw190 | well I'm on Ubuntu and I'm wondering what should I use instead | 20:36 |
| fw190 | so I'm asking here and there | 20:36 |
| fw190 | ;) | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hate buntkuh, it's way too "me-too" windows'mockup | 20:36 |
| fw190 | and how about security and end user experience? | 20:37 |
| fw190 | on openSuse? | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | In my book canonical hijacked linux just like android did | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm content with end user experience on openSuse, and security is pretty good | 20:38 |
| fw190 | on Ubuntu have to tweka to many things and I'm not shure if Idid it ok | 20:39 |
| fw190 | I mean the security stuf | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on suse this is all preconfigured to a rather reasonable security setup, and there are convenient tools to do your own config that's maybe even more strict than the several defaults you can pick from | 20:40 |
| Skry | fw190: do you want lightweight, bleeding edge, stable and beginner friendly or something for more advanced user? | 20:41 |
| Skry | distrowise | 20:41 |
| fw190 | Skry: the first option | 20:41 |
| fw190 | light, stable, frindly and Secure | 20:41 |
| tadzik | in my experience bleeding edge & stable doesn't really work together | 20:42 |
| Skry | fw190: linux mint xfce edition | 20:43 |
| fw190 | tadzik: so what do you propose? | 20:44 |
| fw190 | Skry: so no i Have openSuse - Doc and Mint- you ;) | 20:44 |
| Skry | fw190: get your usb stick around and try them both | 20:45 |
| Skry | I use arch linux myself, which I recommend if you know your way in linux general | 20:45 |
| tadzik | fw190: to make up your mind :) Do you want a stable system or having new stuff ASAP | 20:46 |
| tadzik | I find debian testing to be a reasonable compromise | 20:46 |
| fw190 | debian-ubuntu - isn't it the same | 20:47 |
| Skry | nope | 20:47 |
| fw190 | setting it up is not so easy | 20:47 |
| fw190 | and even LTS is messy for me | 20:47 |
| tadzik | Arch linux I'd recommend if you don't mind things breaking, don't need to do anything important, and have too much time on your hands | 20:47 |
| fw190 | libre office gives problems and Unity... | 20:47 |
| fw190 | tadzik: I don't have time | 20:47 |
| fw190 | the machine has to work flawlesly and be secure | 20:47 |
| tadzik | everyone wants that, isn't that so? :) | 20:48 |
| tadzik | if you want stuff secure, going bleeding edge is a no-go imho | 20:48 |
| fw190 | true | 20:49 |
| fw190 | openSuse sounds interesting | 20:49 |
| tadzik | security updates ship fast even in stable distos | 20:49 |
| fw190 | I mean setting the system up to be secure ;) | 20:49 |
| tadzik | that you can do everywhere | 20:50 |
| tadzik | seriously, linux distros aren't _that_ different from each other. Package management and maintainers sanity varies, but most stuff doesn't | 20:50 |
| Skry | tadzik: your view of Arch is based on what? :o | 20:50 |
| tadzik | Skry: on my experience with it | 20:51 |
| tadzik | I could rant on it for hours, but that's probably not the best place for it :) | 20:51 |
| fw190 | ah | 20:54 |
| Skry | yeah, propsbly. My experiences are just the opposite. It's been my choice for few years now, because it does not break, is stable, is rolling. | 20:54 |
| fw190 | tru- what would be the ebst place to rant about distros for me? | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fw190: if you need rock solid stable secure stuff, you might want to go for suse SLED ( https://www.suse.com/de-de/products/desktop/?url=http%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.novell.com%25252Finc%25252Ffeedback%25252Ffeedback.jsp ) | 20:54 |
| tadzik | Skry: so you're one of those people for whom it doesn't constantly break – lucky you :) | 20:55 |
| fw190 | DocScrutinizer05: thanks, I will have a look wht this devile is | 20:55 |
| tadzik | in my case it was a fucking nightmare. Things were breaking all the time, every update was filled with fear | 20:55 |
| tadzik | you felt that nothing can possibly go wrong, and they screwed up Gtk theming or goddamn vim | 20:55 |
| fw190 | DocScrutinizer: this is in German - in German I can only read aout aviation | 20:56 |
| fw190 | how much does it cost? | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.suse.com/products/desktop/ | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fw190: linux is for free, as usual. It's the support that costs | 20:59 |
| Skry | tadzik: I had the same experience with fedora :) Anyways, I agree it requires more time in maintenance and setup than most other distros, and there are times when things are in bad shape, too bad you happened to try arch in such state. | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need support to use SLED | 20:59 |
| tadzik | Skry: I was returning to it a few times, and things are better then they were e.g. 3 years ago | 21:00 |
| tadzik | but it's still a bit too exciting for my taste :) | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh SLED is just the yesterday's openSuse ;-D | 21:00 |
| fw190 | DocScrutinizer: so I can have openSuse for free but without support | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | openSuse is free per definitionem. It's the community front of development, and suse enterprise is cherrypicking from that and selling it incl support, for mission critical installations, business etc | 21:02 |
| fw190 | ah so something very different then Ubuntu | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think they might add some administration tools on top which are non-FOSS | 21:03 |
| fw190 | can I set up openSuse next to my ubuntu to have a test? | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to manage whole company IT of several hundered or thousand desktop PC | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can run a live-CD | 21:04 |
| tadzik | you can setup as many distros at once as many you have partitions, really | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.suse.com/communities/#communities_opensource | 21:06 |
| Skry | tadzik: yeah, it was pretty hard times back then. The rolling release model with somewhat bleeding edge stuff can bring trouble from time to time. | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.suse.com/download-linux/ | 21:06 |
| Skry | fw190: please give mint xfce a chance too, it based on debian and ubuntu and is lightweight and it should just work. | 21:07 |
| fw190 | tommorrow I have ot make some live cd of the systems you propose to me and give them all a test | 21:08 |
| Skry | fw190: and if xfce is too lightweight for you, you can try the other editions too. I've been linux user from late 90's and have found mint to be perfect distro for beginners and people who like everything to just work with minimal effort. | 21:10 |
| Skry | but in general you should try many distros to find something that suits just you, thats pretty much the point here | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: so what's your ponts of critics regarding suse? | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | points* | 21:14 |
| fw190 | maemo brought me to ubuntu but it fails to often for me | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I usually found just everything working ootb extremaly conventiently | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | localisation works, desktop works, even preconfiguration of mail etc works to a pretty convenient degree | 21:16 |
| myuu__ | oh yeah Skry | 21:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and system admin centralized in yast is a contrast like day to night vs what ubuntu and the like offers | 21:16 |
| myuu__ | what did you decide on the for hardware accel Xorg | 21:16 |
| fw190 | DocScrutinzer: you have strong poins which bring my attention to openSuse | 21:17 |
| fw190 | points | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course there's a downside to that and I don't want to hide it: each time I'm administrating some non-suse server or desktop box, I actually have to read man pages to look up correct use of silly simple things like adduser etc | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not used to using it ;-) | 21:22 |
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| fw190 | this whole yast thing is interesting | 21:26 |
| fw190 | luf: freemangordon lef you a link | 21:26 |
| fw190 | left | 21:26 |
| luf | fw190: thanks | 21:26 |
| fw190 | http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/ | 21:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | fw190: anyway, here you are: http://software.opensuse.org/122/en | 21:46 |
| fw190 | DocScrutinizer: thanks but I have something even better: http://software.opensuse.org/122/pl | 21:47 |
| fw190 | ;) | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 21:47 |
| fw190 | I'm still reading the cons and pros for openSuse and other distros | 21:47 |
| fw190 | damn - the web is full of comparisons | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might find this intriguing: http://en.opensuse.org/Derivatives | 21:48 |
| fw190 | I wonder what distro has Pali, freemangordon or merlin1991 | 21:48 |
| fw190 | I cold go for the most popular ;p | 21:48 |
| Pali | kubuntu | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Smeegol :-) | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fw190: alas Nokia empasized their support on Buntkuh, so many maemo devels will use it just for ease of maemo SDK integration | 21:50 |
| fw190 | damn - as usual - everyone has somethign else and I have to decide myself ;) | 21:51 |
| fw190 | Pali thanks for your tip | 21:51 |
| Pali | :-) | 21:52 |
| fw190 | I could also go for lubuntu but this still is buntu | 21:52 |
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| fw190 | I heard tha KDE is better on openSuse then o buntu | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | everything is better on suse than on buntkuh ;-P | 22:01 |
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