IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Saturday, 2012-09-22

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keriofreemangordon: FR: hardfp00:34
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tadzikfreemangordon: pong00:37
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DocScrutinizer05>>>I wonder, how many people are aware of reason, why cssu-extras is "no ETA" for half of a year, or more. It's quite simple - sexy idea in theory, but no one want to waste precious personal time (devs are quite overprojected, anyway), for establishing such thing. After all, if we have perfectly working things like bb-power - that could land in CSSU right ahead - why bother?<<< cubehead01:17
DocScrutinizer05fsckng estel_ has no friggin  clue 'why cssu-extras is "no ETA"'01:18
DocScrutinizer05since meanwhile he's convinced not only me but also merlin1991 and chem|st are vice-satanas01:19
DocScrutinizer05no, not santa's01:20
Skryoh01:22
DocScrutinizer05and he the heck doesn't grok it how I can say "no, this won't happen", since he doesn't see my confidence in similar thinking of me and maintainers. He prefers to bitch "Doc, you LIAR! You're no maintainer of CSSU" DAFAQ does it even matter?01:23
DocScrutinizer05I don't care if I'm a silly asshole that contributes random rant, a maintainer of CSSU, or Godfather of CSSU and nominator of maintainers. It doesn't matter. simple as that. What matters is condense and merit, and of course competence and sound arguments. Estel_ has none of those three01:25
DocScrutinizer05consense*01:25
keriowhat matters is codesense!01:37
kerioin xcode!01:37
keriobecause java sucks!01:37
Skryso true01:39
DocScrutinizer05how's that related to anything said before?01:50
keriocondense/consense/codesense01:51
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DocScrutinizer05~dict condence01:54
infobotcould not find definition for condence01:54
DocScrutinizer05~dict consense01:54
infobotcould not find definition for consense01:54
DocScrutinizer05~dict codesense01:54
infobotcould not find definition for codesense01:54
DocScrutinizer05~botsnack01:55
infobotDocScrutinizer05: thanks01:55
DocScrutinizer05please keep in mind I'm no native speaker (like many others around here)01:55
DocScrutinizer05(just like you, iirc)01:56
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Sc0rpiusOrientation lock applet just appears in the testing version of the CSSU?03:52
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merlin1991Sc0rpius: it is in the -stable version aswell05:27
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Sc0rpiusI see, but as an optional package06:06
Sc0rpiusalso it seems the new camera-ui is not available in the stable version06:06
fredrinLapn900 people going strong, always some awake06:18
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kerioSc0rpius: the new camera-ui will be made optional, for stable08:09
kerioSc0rpius: but it's kind of a weird thing to do, considering that HAM sucks balls08:09
kerioSc0rpius: also, are you the Yappari dude?08:10
keriofreemangordon: ouch, a dude filled his rootfs while apt-get upgrading08:19
kerioto fix the versions08:19
kerio:c08:19
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freemangordonluf: ping12:38
luffreemangordon: pong - I'm leaving now and I'll be available in the evening.12:47
freemangordonok, ping me when you have time12:47
lufok.12:47
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andre__errm, trying to upgrade to latest CSSU testing I'm told that I need Nokia PC Suite?17:41
andre__not that I have any Windows machine around...17:42
merlin1991andre__: update the operator name thingy first17:43
andre__ah. That was triggered by some "Operator widget" update that was also available.17:43
andre__yeah. after doing that separately now the CSSU update works. thanks17:43
merlin1991also pc suite never ever is the right answer, it's just hams way of saying I give up :P17:43
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kerioit's just nokia's way of saying "we're too stupid to figure out how apt works"17:55
freemangordonkerio: would you do me a favour17:57
freemangordonhttp://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/17:57
freemangordonI'll not be here later on, point luf to the above URL17:58
keriouse noteserv17:59
kerioi'll not be here later on either17:59
freemangordonwell, ok17:59
kerioi'm going to see radiohead ^______^17:59
SpacedOutPali: I sent an e-mail "power-kernel pull request for suspend to ram fixes" any chance to look at it?18:00
freemangordonSpacedOut: is that you to clone kernel-cssu?18:01
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PaliI got email, but did not looked at it18:02
Palinow going to look at patches18:02
SpacedOutYes I cloned it and added my changes to what Pali had for the power-kernel.18:02
freemangordonSpacedOut: I looked into the commits, but TBH didn't get the idea18:03
SpacedOutThe fix is pretty small, making the usb driver a module is much larger.18:03
Palifirst patch - autokick watchdog -> not needed -> we can disable watchdogs with root access18:03
Palijust load watchdog kernel module with nowayout=0 param and send disable watchdog command18:04
SpacedOutThat's fine I definitely didn't want the watchdog change enabled by default and so the patch series has it disabled.18:04
SpacedOutI didn't know that.18:05
SpacedOutI organized the patches I cared about the most as the earliest patches, through 'pvr cleanup' was just because I got tired of seeing warnings.18:07
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Palifreemangordon, I can add that patches to kernel power prerelease version18:13
freemangordonPali: besides PVR patch, what we benefit from the other patches?18:14
freemangordonPali: BTW are you here for the next few hours?18:16
SpacedOutSuspend to ram is better behaved.  If anyone is trying to do any usb development or fixes they can reload the module instead of having to reboot.18:16
Paliyes, I'm here18:16
freemangordonPali: will you point luf to http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/18:16
freemangordonI fixed bluetoothd packaging18:16
tadzikfreemangordon: you were looking for me?18:16
Paliok18:16
freemangordontadzik: yeah, wanted to ask you if there is any progress with opera18:17
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tadziknothing new yet18:17
freemangordontadzik: and this http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%2918:17
freemangordonif anyone needs it18:18
tadzikright, I'll pass it around18:18
freemangordonPali: thanks. So, do we have all of the bits needed to replace BME?18:18
Palilibbmeipc was not tested!18:19
PaliI only compiled it18:19
freemangordonhehe18:19
Palihald-addon-bme worked on my n90018:19
freemangordonBTW I still not get it why you replace pips with sockets18:19
freemangordon*pipes18:19
PaliI do not know how glib working with pipes (for select)18:20
freemangordonhmm, nothing new here https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/libbmeipc18:20
freemangordonPali: it is file descripto18:20
freemangordonr18:20
Palihttps://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme18:21
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freemangordonPali: where do your sockets connect?18:24
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freemangordonAIUI you need BME in order to use that libbmeipc18:24
Palithey are not connecting18:24
Paliusing socketpair18:24
Paliit create two connected sockets18:24
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freemangordonPali: I think you still not get how libbme is supposed to work. Might be wrong though.18:26
Palisee https://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme/blobs/replacement/src/bmeipc.c#line25218:26
freemangordonI see, but cookie is something which BMW provides18:26
freemangordon*BME18:26
freemangordonhttps://meego.gitorious.org/~pali/meego-device-adaptation/pali-n900_libbme/blobs/replacement/src/bmeipc.c#line6718:27
freemangordon?18:27
freemangordonwhat server?18:27
Palifake server18:28
Paliit read data from one socket part18:28
freemangordonwhy do you need it?18:28
Paliand write to same part18:28
Paliseparate code18:28
Paliit can be in bme_read function18:28
freemangordonwhat code? it does nothing18:28
Palibme_packet_write18:29
freemangordonPali: I stil cannot understand why you don;t want to use the code here: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/libbmeipc18:30
freemangordonit is tested18:30
freemangordon bme_packet_write is used by hal addon (stock)18:30
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freemangordonmy replacement need exactly 3 lines of code to be fully functional, i.e. read the temperature from sysfs18:31
freemangordonevferything iis in place18:31
freemangordons/iis/else/18:32
infobotfreemangordon meant: evferything else in place18:32
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fw190DocScrutinizer: helo20:32
DocScrutinizer05EHLO20:34
fw190what do you think about openSuse?20:35
DocScrutinizer05should I think about it?20:35
DocScrutinizer05I'm just using it20:35
fw190well I'm on Ubuntu and I'm wondering what should I use instead20:36
fw190so I'm asking here and there20:36
fw190;)20:36
DocScrutinizer05I hate buntkuh, it's way too "me-too" windows'mockup20:36
fw190and how about security and end user experience?20:37
fw190on openSuse?20:37
DocScrutinizer05In my book canonical hijacked linux just like android did20:37
DocScrutinizer05I'm content with end user experience on openSuse, and security is pretty good20:38
fw190on Ubuntu  have to tweka to many things and I'm not shure if Idid it ok20:39
fw190I mean the security stuf20:39
DocScrutinizer05on suse this is all preconfigured to a rather reasonable security setup, and there are convenient tools to do your own config that's maybe even more strict than the several defaults you can pick from20:40
Skryfw190: do you want lightweight, bleeding edge, stable and beginner friendly or something for more advanced user?20:41
Skrydistrowise20:41
fw190Skry: the first option20:41
fw190light, stable, frindly and Secure20:41
tadzikin my experience bleeding edge & stable doesn't really work together20:42
Skryfw190: linux mint xfce edition20:43
fw190tadzik: so what do you propose?20:44
fw190Skry: so no i Have openSuse - Doc and Mint- you ;)20:44
Skryfw190: get your usb stick around and try them both20:45
SkryI use arch linux myself, which I recommend if you know your way in linux general20:45
tadzikfw190: to make up your mind :) Do you want a stable system or having new stuff ASAP20:46
tadzikI find debian testing to be a reasonable compromise20:46
fw190debian-ubuntu - isn't it the same20:47
Skrynope20:47
fw190setting it up is not so easy20:47
fw190and even LTS is messy for me20:47
tadzikArch linux I'd recommend if you don't mind things breaking, don't need to do anything important, and have too much time on your hands20:47
fw190libre office gives problems and Unity...20:47
fw190tadzik: I don't have time20:47
fw190the machine has to work flawlesly and be secure20:47
tadzikeveryone wants that, isn't that so? :)20:48
tadzikif you want stuff secure, going bleeding edge is a no-go imho20:48
fw190true20:49
fw190openSuse sounds interesting20:49
tadziksecurity updates ship fast even in stable distos20:49
fw190I mean setting the system up to be secure ;)20:49
tadzikthat you can do everywhere20:50
tadzikseriously, linux distros aren't _that_ different from each other. Package management and maintainers sanity varies, but most stuff doesn't20:50
Skrytadzik: your view of Arch is based on what? :o20:50
tadzikSkry: on my experience with it20:51
tadzikI could rant on it for hours, but that's probably not the best place for it :)20:51
fw190ah20:54
Skryyeah, propsbly. My experiences are just the opposite. It's been my choice for few years now, because it does not break, is stable, is rolling.20:54
fw190tru- what would be the ebst place to rant about distros for me?20:54
DocScrutinizer05fw190: if you need rock solid stable secure stuff, you might want to go for suse SLED ( https://www.suse.com/de-de/products/desktop/?url=http%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.novell.com%25252Finc%25252Ffeedback%25252Ffeedback.jsp )20:54
tadzikSkry: so you're one of those people for whom it doesn't constantly break – lucky you :)20:55
fw190DocScrutinizer05: thanks, I will have a look wht this devile is20:55
tadzikin my case it was a fucking nightmare. Things were breaking all the time, every update was filled with fear20:55
tadzikyou felt that nothing can possibly go wrong, and they screwed up Gtk theming or goddamn vim20:55
fw190DocScrutinizer: this is in German - in German I can only read aout aviation20:56
fw190how much does it cost?20:57
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DocScrutinizer05https://www.suse.com/products/desktop/20:58
DocScrutinizer05fw190: linux is for free, as usual. It's the support that costs20:59
Skrytadzik: I had the same experience with fedora :) Anyways, I agree it requires more time in maintenance and setup than most other distros, and there are times when things are in bad shape, too bad you happened to try arch in such state.20:59
DocScrutinizer05you don't need support to use SLED20:59
tadzikSkry: I was returning to it a few times, and things are better then they were e.g. 3 years ago21:00
tadzikbut it's still a bit too exciting for my taste :)21:00
DocScrutinizer05otoh SLED is just the yesterday's openSuse ;-D21:00
fw190DocScrutinizer: so I can have openSuse for free but without support21:01
DocScrutinizer05openSuse is free per definitionem. It's the community front of development, and suse enterprise is cherrypicking from that and selling it incl support, for mission critical installations, business etc21:02
fw190ah so something very different then Ubuntu21:03
DocScrutinizer05I think they might add some administration tools on top which are non-FOSS21:03
fw190can I set up openSuse next to my ubuntu to have a test?21:04
DocScrutinizer05to manage whole company IT of several hundered or thousand desktop PC21:04
DocScrutinizer05hmm21:04
DocScrutinizer05you can run a live-CD21:04
tadzikyou can setup as many distros at once as many you have partitions, really21:05
DocScrutinizer05https://www.suse.com/communities/#communities_opensource21:06
Skrytadzik: yeah, it was pretty hard times back then. The rolling release model with somewhat bleeding edge stuff can bring trouble from time to time.21:06
DocScrutinizer05https://www.suse.com/download-linux/21:06
Skryfw190: please give mint xfce a chance too, it based on debian and ubuntu and is lightweight and it should just work.21:07
fw190tommorrow I have ot make some live cd of the systems you propose to me and give them all a test21:08
Skryfw190: and if xfce is too lightweight for you, you can try the other editions too. I've been linux user from late 90's and have found mint to be perfect distro for beginners and people who like everything to just work with minimal effort.21:10
Skrybut in general you should try many distros to find something that suits just you, thats pretty much the point here21:11
DocScrutinizer05Skry: so what's your ponts of critics regarding suse?21:14
DocScrutinizer05points*21:14
fw190maemo brought me to ubuntu but it fails to often for me21:14
DocScrutinizer05I usually found just everything working ootb extremaly conventiently21:15
DocScrutinizer05localisation works, desktop works, even preconfiguration of mail etc works to a pretty convenient degree21:16
myuu__oh yeah Skry21:16
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DocScrutinizer05and system admin centralized in yast is a contrast like day to night vs what ubuntu and the like offers21:16
myuu__what did you decide on the for hardware accel Xorg21:16
fw190DocScrutinzer: you have strong poins which bring my attention to openSuse21:17
fw190points21:17
DocScrutinizer05of course there's a downside to that and I don't want to hide it: each time I'm administrating some non-suse server or desktop box, I actually have to read man pages to look up correct use of silly simple things like adduser etc21:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm not used to using it ;-)21:22
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fw190this whole yast thing is interesting21:26
fw190luf: freemangordon lef you a link21:26
fw190left21:26
luffw190: thanks21:26
fw190http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/21:27
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DocScrutinizer05fw190: anyway, here you are: http://software.opensuse.org/122/en21:46
fw190DocScrutinizer: thanks but I have something even better: http://software.opensuse.org/122/pl21:47
fw190;)21:47
DocScrutinizer05hehe21:47
fw190I'm still reading the cons and pros for openSuse and other distros21:47
fw190damn - the web is full of comparisons21:47
DocScrutinizer05you might find this intriguing: http://en.opensuse.org/Derivatives21:48
fw190I wonder what distro has Pali, freemangordon or merlin199121:48
fw190I cold go for the most popular ;p21:48
Palikubuntu21:49
DocScrutinizer05Smeegol :-)21:49
DocScrutinizer05fw190: alas Nokia empasized their support on Buntkuh, so many maemo devels will use it just for ease of maemo SDK integration21:50
fw190damn - as usual - everyone has somethign else and I have to decide myself ;)21:51
fw190Pali thanks for your tip21:51
Pali:-)21:52
fw190I could also go for lubuntu but this still is buntu21:52
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fw190I heard tha KDE is better on openSuse then o buntu21:52
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DocScrutinizer05everything is better on suse than on buntkuh ;-P22:01
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