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| ivgalvez | merlin1991 ping | 10:58 |
|---|---|---|
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| chem|st | good morning! | 11:16 |
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| ivgalvez | hi chem|st | 11:28 |
| ivgalvez | I haven't received any answer from Jolla (Stskeeps) in relation to open questions from the community | 11:29 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: ping | 11:55 |
| ivgalvez | freemangordon hi | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | hi :) | 11:55 |
| ivgalvez | there is yet another discussion around busybox-power: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1255362&postcount=275 | 11:56 |
| ivgalvez | you might have noticed it already | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | yeah, I saw it | 11:56 |
| ivgalvez | despite any possible opinions about whatis and whatsnot CSSU, the situation of busybox power is clearly not ideal | 11:57 |
| freemangordon | ivgalvez: but TBH i missed who will maintain that if included in CSSU | 11:57 |
| kerio | i just don't get why it doesn't provide and replace the usual busybox | 11:57 |
| kerio | i mean, provide and conflict | 11:57 |
| kerio | why do people always make up their own crappy shit | 11:58 |
| jonwil | hi' | 11:59 |
| ivgalvez | kerio, if it substitutes original bb package it would break metapackage | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: hi | 11:59 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: hmm, why? | 11:59 |
| jonwil | saw your vkb stuff | 11:59 |
| ivgalvez | it was packaged in that dirty way when there was no CSSU | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: yeah, a total win, I am happy | 11:59 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: the metapackage doesn't depend on exact versions | 11:59 |
| kerio | and besides, i think you can provide a particular version | 12:00 |
| jonwil | what I cant find is which header file defines functions like imengines_wp_init and imengines_wp_set_data and stuff | 12:00 |
| ivgalvez | kerio, but then are you proposing to package a busybox replacement (with same package name) in Extras? | 12:00 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: no header ;), it is plain C after all :D | 12:00 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: of course not | 12:01 |
| ivgalvez | which is possible by the way, remember libxau | 12:01 |
| ivgalvez | OK | 12:01 |
| kerio | =D | 12:01 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: I didn't bother to do -dev package for imengines-wp | 12:01 |
| jonwil | :) | 12:01 |
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| jonwil | I also seriously doubt your /* WTF ?!? */ line is actually going to work given that you are passing a pointer into the function imengines_wp_set_data | 12:02 |
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| jonwil | yet the pointer you are passing is obviously not going to be correct | 12:02 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: it works, but dont ask me how | 12:02 |
| freemangordon | as this seems to be some magic, not a real pointer | 12:02 |
| freemangordon | and i preferred to decline it sa void* instead of int32 | 12:03 |
| freemangordon | s/decline/define/ | 12:03 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: and i preferred to define it sa void* instead of int32 | 12:03 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: everything work, no matter that | 12:04 |
| freemangordon | *works | 12:04 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: BTW feel free to discover WTF this value means, I will appreciate it :P | 12:04 |
| jonwil | I just need to find where I put my x86 copy of libimengines-wp.so | 12:05 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: you dont need that, it is a simple wrapper that does dload/dlsym | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | text:0000C951 sub esp, 8 | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | .text:0000C954 push 0BBC58F26h ; data | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | .text:0000C959 mov eax, [ebp+which] | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | .text:0000C95C push eax ; which | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | .text:0000C95D call _imengines_wp_set_data | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: ^^^ | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | for the life of mine I cannot grok what 0BBC58F26h is supposed to mean | 12:07 |
| jonwil | ok | 12:07 |
| jonwil | neither can I | 12:08 |
| jonwil | given that its not a pointer | 12:08 |
| freemangordon | so I assume it is some magic/checksum/whatever | 12:08 |
| jonwil | ok | 12:08 |
| jonwil | if it works, that's what matters :) | 12:08 |
| freemangordon | well, we can try to contact the original developer and ask him to help, though i don't believe we eill get such | 12:09 |
| freemangordon | yes | 12:09 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: though you are correct that maybe a cast to (unsigned int) is better than (void*) | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (busybox) has *anybody* looked at the 'patch' that supposedly fixes portrait mode? WTF does it do? why do we need that? how's a shell related to display orientation? and how much is that patch, in lines or chars? | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and who actually stated it will get included to next CSSU? based on which criteria and discussion? | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (of course I assume I simply missed all that) | 12:22 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's just a better handling of SIGWINCH afaiu | 12:22 |
| ivgalvez | inclussion or not of that patch, is unrelated with fact that busy box power is not properly distributed via Extras as it's upstream version of system package | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 12:23 |
| ivgalvez | I mean it could be that patch or any other | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/busybox/commit/2676e9eacb4f8f4228a6b06e1a49188630660a03 | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: could you tell me the difference between busybox and (libcurl3, obexd,etc) | 12:24 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: pong | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, Pali. This guy is so productive, you inevitably lose track of all the stuff he does :-) | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: could you give me some list of what is planned to be included in next -testing, so I can update -thumb accordingly | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey merlin1991, you found a WiFi hotspot? :-) | 12:25 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: we have wifi at hotel, but it drops every 5 mins | 12:25 |
| merlin1991 | it's a huge pita | 12:25 |
| merlin1991 | also this is the first time I found time to turn on my laptop :D | 12:26 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: err, hm the list is in vienna, but planned was obexd, libcurl, evolution-data-server, qt4, tinymail, and everyhting pali did except ke-recv | 12:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 *hates* patches in git as normal files >:-( | 12:26 | |
| merlin1991 | but re obexd I have to talk to luf | 12:26 |
| merlin1991 | also I couldn't get microb-engine to compile | 12:27 |
| ivgalvez | upgrade to gcc 4.7.2 :D | 12:27 |
| ivgalvez | just kidding | 12:27 |
| ivgalvez | or maybe not | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, this busybox "patch" is a one-line err even 3-char edit, seems feasible to properly review complete impact, and low risk of side effects. So this patch is possibly considered safe for inclusion to core cssu, even while busybox is arguably part of mission critical core system components | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh I'd like to see the bug it is supposed to fix | 12:31 |
| ivgalvez | is Qt mission critical? | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in a certain way it is | 12:31 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: then you should cry more about the incoming qt patch :D | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, is my dialer qt? | 12:32 |
| ivgalvez | and why was it upgraded without proper 5 wise man reviewing every single patch? | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are initscripts qt? | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is HD qt? | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will a bug in qt stop me from dialing 911? | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | c'mon, you're not that dull, guys | 12:33 |
| ivgalvez | I'm bored | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you are pretty capable to estimate severity of a change | 12:33 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: wait, microb-engine compiles ok, there is something wrong with your SB | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possible risk and impact | 12:34 |
| ivgalvez | I'm pretty capable of testing it | 12:34 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: what is wrong with ke-recv? | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then why didn't you do that on this I2C bug in PK that put our hw on peril | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 12:35 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: 911? are you in states :P | 12:36 |
| ivgalvez | I'm quite busy with Coucnil duties lately, so I'm not able to test as much as I'd wish | 12:36 |
| ivgalvez | however, I trust other testers and developers | 12:36 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: the thing is pali added an auto ifup of usb0 in pc-suite mode | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then the ability to test isn't exactly what drives us ahead right here | 12:36 |
| merlin1991 | however it is not possible to configure that, he said he'll add that before we should release | 12:36 |
| kerio | it's still a FUCKING STUPID idea, btw | 12:37 |
| kerio | much like operator-name-cbs-widget | 12:37 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: I missed the point, but I assume you mean it is still not ready | 12:37 |
| merlin1991 | yes | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, in the end everybody trusts other less short on time testers, and of course the original patch author. In the end the patch got reviewd on good faith | 12:37 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: regarding microb-engine, I'll build a new sb target when I get back to vienna, that should (hopefully) take care of the build problems I'm facing atm | 12:38 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it is ok as long as it si configurable and disabled by default | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: exactly | 12:39 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: hi, we were discussing your ke-recv last patch :) | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and doesn't come with remarkable downsides, as long as disabled | 12:39 |
| Pali | I'm planning to add config options for enabling usb network | 12:40 |
| Pali | all options will be by default disabled | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (downsides like additional 0.5MB eaten in rootfs, for those who don't need it as well as for those who might want it) | 12:40 |
| ivgalvez | to everyone: please take a look at bylaws proposal in this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1256115 | 12:40 |
| ivgalvez | we need your feedback | 12:40 |
| freemangordon | BTW I think it is time someone to start writing "CSSU configurator" application | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (and of course shouldn't be too difficult to review and secure it got no side effects) | 12:41 |
| merlin1991 | yep we should get rid of the unofficial crap stuff out there | 12:41 |
| Pali | but usbnetwork in ke-recvs does not eat rootfs | 12:41 |
| Pali | only small part of shell script is here | 12:41 |
| kerio | Pali: but it can be harmful in more than one way | 12:41 |
| kerio | so it should be disabled by default | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I suggested that quite 6 months ago ;-D | 12:41 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: that's going to happen | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | ivgalvez: well, I assume we're developers here, not lawyers, don't expect much of a help :) | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are already some runtime configurators | 12:42 |
| Pali | kerio, see ^^^^ <Pali> all options will be by default disabled | 12:42 |
| kerio | Pali: maybe make a tiny settings panel for it | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which I suggested to include to CSSU | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you remember the state CSSU was 6 months ago ;) | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | ? | 12:42 |
| kerio | "cssu configurator" doesn't make much sense | 12:42 |
| kerio | panels for features, in Settings, are fine imo | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | kerio: bad mood or what? | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep, basically you got a point there | 12:42 |
| kerio | freemangordon: <dumb user> wtf is cssu? | 12:42 |
| ivgalvez | Right now there are two CSSU settings applications in Extras, none of them up to date, both needing CSSU but not depending on it | 12:43 |
| ivgalvez | and with some real bugs | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | kerio: of course we are talking about settings applet | 12:43 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: what do they do? i thought it was just transitions.ini | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no sense in separating e.g. transitions into those which are standard and those which came with CSSU | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | kerio: even an additional button in "about CSSU" applet, which opens the settings application/panel/you name it | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but otoh we not always can include all setting options to where they belong (see phone settings for CBSMS widget) | 12:44 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: there are vrious g-conf keys aswell | 12:44 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 12:44 |
| kerio | oh right, for MHD and stuff like fmtx applet | 12:44 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: exactly | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: rather unfortunate | 12:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, CBSMS widget has to go anyway | 12:45 |
| kerio | according to your rationale | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yep | 12:45 |
| kerio | but yeah, having a panel for it is fine | 12:45 |
| ivgalvez | I understand that the better way to go would be to include specific options in their related settings widgets instead of a big CSSU configurator | 12:45 |
| kerio | same as tvout | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it has to become optional | 12:45 |
| ivgalvez | for example theme settings | 12:45 |
| freemangordon | kerio, DocScrutinizer05: if there is some bug, removing the package is not the way to fix it | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (optional) until we get the settings into proper place, wehn we can't make it optional anymore ;-) | 12:46 |
| ivgalvez | it could be improved with related settings that are available via CSSU | 12:46 |
| freemangordon | ivgalvez: hmm, good point | 12:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so busybox-power, which adds no regression, is evil, but cbsms, which *does*, is kosher? | 12:46 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: nobody says cbsms is kosher | 12:47 |
| kerio | s/no /no known / | 12:47 |
| infobot | kerio meant: DocScrutinizer05: so busybox-power, which adds no known regression, is evil, but cbsms, which *does*, is kosher? | 12:47 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it is evil, because it ends with -power :P | 12:47 |
| ivgalvez | kerio: power word sounds scary to some | 12:47 |
| ivgalvez | yep | 12:47 |
| kerio | oh right | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't give a shit if something adds regressions, since such a thing shouldn't get allowed to go to CSSU at all | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's simply ... meh, I explained that 20 times now | 12:48 |
| ivgalvez | yes you did | 12:48 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I assume you mean "known regressions", right? | 12:48 |
| ivgalvez | but we don't agree :D | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw kisher is not a valid criterion for CSSU | 12:48 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: otoh, you don't really have authority over CSSU | 12:48 |
| ivgalvez | who says that? | 12:49 |
| kerio | so it's up to merlin1991 and mag to decide | 12:49 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: i thought he didn't have any official position of authority | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: ooh, you don't agree that freedom of chice is a high good? | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | choice* | 12:49 |
| kerio | oh nvm | 12:49 |
| freemangordon | hmm, which reminds me... | 12:49 |
| ivgalvez | I don't agree with you, that's my freedom | 12:49 |
| ivgalvez | no offense | 12:50 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: do you have any extra repos enabled in your sb besides sdk? | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't think YOU have authority to even utter such bullshit | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: this is absolutely NOT about authority | 12:50 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: maemo-extras and cssu-testing | 12:50 |
| merlin1991 | hm where is the sample script for ignoring paritions in ke-recv? | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and those who are in duty understand that | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't | 12:51 |
| merlin1991 | *partitions* | 12:51 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: extras or extras-devel? | 12:51 |
| freemangordon | extras :P | 12:51 |
| merlin1991 | hm yeah well there are still a few newer libs than in sdk | 12:51 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: hmm, nokia-binaries too | 12:51 |
| ivgalvez | freemangordon, In fact if CSSU could provide enough configuration options via Settings, I would even provide conflict with Theme Customizer, CSSU Configurator, etc, They all are plagued with bugs | 12:51 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: they wouldn't conflict with those | 12:52 |
| ivgalvez | those applications can mess your transitions.ini and end in reboot loop | 12:52 |
| kerio | which is something they (should) point out to the user | 12:53 |
| kerio | if they're actively harmful, complain about their inclusion in extras/extras-testing | 12:53 |
| ivgalvez | but honestly, original settings are not very useful | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: not to agree with me is your freedom of choice but absolutely irrelevant here. If you don't grok that it's not about me but about the arguments and reeasonings I contribute, then you better shut up for a while and just listen and learn | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if on the other hand you hjave better arguments, then please speak up | 12:53 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05 you are rude, again | 12:53 |
| kerio | ivgalvez: btw, what have you changed in transitions.ini? | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope I'm not | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you are | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's not a single rude word I could find in my post | 12:54 |
| ivgalvez | DocDcrutinizer05: "you better shut up for a while and just listen and learn" is not very polite, at least in my native language | 12:54 |
| * freemangordon goes for lunch, bbl | 12:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then you better take that for what it is, a friendly advice | 12:55 |
| ivgalvez | maybe it's just a language misunderstanding | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably lost in translation, no insult intended | 12:56 |
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| ivgalvez | OK | 12:56 |
| ivgalvez | kerio, back to transitions.ini | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just we are discussing some technical decisions here, nothing about believe or agree with somebody | 12:56 |
| ivgalvez | These programs usually substitute transitions.ini, instead of turning on or off a single property | 12:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you can agree with somebody's arguments, means you think those are the arguments you would use as well. Or you bring up your own different arguments | 12:57 |
| ivgalvez | I have found a lot of messy behaviours | 12:57 |
| ivgalvez | and they are unmaitained | 12:58 |
| ivgalvez | since long ago, while CSSU keeps introducing new features | 12:58 |
| ivgalvez | so I really thing, CSSU configuration should be provided via CSSU | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU is not primarily about introducing _new_ features | 12:58 |
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| ivgalvez | but there are | 12:59 |
| ivgalvez | in Hildon Desktop | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's about _enabling_ new features | 12:59 |
| ivgalvez | you have a lot of new parameters available in transitions.ini | 12:59 |
| ivgalvez | configuring them via external application | 12:59 |
| ivgalvez | is a risk | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the small but relevant difference is *freedom of choice* | 13:00 |
| ivgalvez | I always modify it manually via xterm | 13:00 |
| chem|st | isn't it telling when your settings are wrong and isn't it telling that you may brick your device before saving even with "good" settings? | 13:01 |
| ivgalvez | well, telling that it may brick your device is not the same that actually doing | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we (mag, merlin1991, me, a few others) decided that no 'new features' are forced into CSSU-S - that's why orientation lock applet missing in S - but that they might be useful to be enabled by default in T since, well since it's T | 13:02 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05: that I agree with you | 13:03 |
| ivgalvez | Testing is for testing | 13:03 |
| ivgalvez | those wanting stability go for Stable | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of featues that have a chance to go to CSSU-S | 13:03 |
| ivgalvez | not everything in Testing should go to Stable | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then it should eventually get kicked out of T | 13:04 |
| merlin1991 | ~joergw | 13:04 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: gimme your wiki page, I need to copy some syntax :D | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 13:04 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 13:04 |
| merlin1991 | yep | 13:04 |
| merlin1991 | thanks | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 13:04 |
| ivgalvez | not really, something not fully functional or with some issues can be improved on time | 13:05 |
| ivgalvez | but if you don't ship it at least for power users, nobody will care about trying to fix it | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (not all features in T...) look, for arbitrary distro with a tresting and a stable branch, you don't want to go with only gnome in T when you when you have KDE in S | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | T and S need to stay in sync to a certain degree | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | T is not experimental | 13:06 |
| ivgalvez | to a certain degree yes | 13:06 |
| ivgalvez | but we need to experiment | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | T is testbed for S | 13:07 |
| ivgalvez | otherwise how are we going to progress | 13:07 |
| chem|st | ivgalvez: devel | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if something in T finally proves to not be applicable to S, it even should get nuked from T | 13:07 |
| ivgalvez | well, why is not worldclock replacement even packaged for devel? | 13:07 |
| ivgalvez | nobody can test it | 13:08 |
| chem|st | then it is literaly non-existant to CSSU | 13:08 |
| ivgalvez | in fact a lot of users are testing it by manually replacing binary | 13:08 |
| chem|st | in two weeks from now we can have a further look... | 13:09 |
| ivgalvez | seems that worldclock is also mission critical by the time it's taking to get it's way to CSSU | 13:10 |
| chem|st | merlin1991: btw, we should think about a freeze state for testing (debian way) | 13:10 |
| merlin1991 | chem|st: we do a rolling window | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think in T you might even get proper 100% feature complete and identical FOSS repalcements for closed blobs, but they shouldn't get included to S for the mere benefit of having a sourcecode to that binary. They may move to S as soon as they see some improvement/bugfix over what stock closed blob offers | 13:10 |
| merlin1991 | we grab what's good .) | 13:10 |
| chem|st | I know.... | 13:10 |
| ivgalvez | I'd buy FOSS replacements in Testing but not in Stable | 13:12 |
| ivgalvez | but what's the point not to include them in T | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: (world clock mission critical) it's just not scatching an itch | 13:12 |
| chem|st | as long as they are just an replacement there is no need | 13:12 |
| ivgalvez | it provides portrait support | 13:13 |
| ivgalvez | what's the point of portrait support in bb? | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's a valid point | 13:13 |
| ivgalvez | or even hildon | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that would even qualify it for later S inclusion | 13:13 |
| merlin1991 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features/ke-recv feel free to fix my spelling mistakes or write up a better text | 13:14 |
| ivgalvez | that wouldn't happen if it's not tested at all. | 13:14 |
| ivgalvez | the point is that there is no real criteria for inclussion in CSSU | 13:14 |
| ivgalvez | some critical components get updated and some not | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are pretty clear and simple criteria | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first of all it has to "scratch an itch" | 13:15 |
| ivgalvez | my clock not in portrait itches me a lot | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and meybe even before that, it has to be inappropriate to get it via extras-* repos | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: I already said you got a valid point there | 13:16 |
| ivgalvez | why the hell can I open clock from portrait if it's being rotated to landscape | 13:16 |
| ivgalvez | Ok | 13:16 |
| ivgalvez | sorry | 13:16 |
| ivgalvez | the question is that including it in devel (at least) is not difficult | 13:16 |
| ivgalvez | it's not critical | 13:17 |
| ivgalvez | and application is already tested | 13:17 |
| ivgalvez | in it's TMO thread | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so didn't we discuss _all_that_ some 8 weeks ago? | 13:17 |
| ivgalvez | yes, so why the hell is possible to even discuss about enabling portrait in bb and break bb-power when worldclock is blocked | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and didn't we even come to some common sense conclusion what to do next? | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who says worldclock is blocked? | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is it? | 13:18 |
| ivgalvez | no, you forced idea of including a replacement chooser in HAM | 13:19 |
| ivgalvez | but that doesn't exist | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe it's simply not assigned to a (CSSU) maintainer who drives the package | 13:19 |
| ivgalvez | ade has already upload it to gitorious and he's maintaining it | 13:19 |
| ivgalvez | you could say that it shouldn't enter Stable yet, I give that | 13:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, the work package depends on merlin1991's work for optional packages in HAM | 13:20 |
| ivgalvez | but that should be blocker for Stable | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, sorry for the delay, merlin1991 is quite busy | 13:20 |
| ivgalvez | not for devel/testing | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | arguable, yes | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I agree | 13:20 |
| ivgalvez | shit! | 13:21 |
| ivgalvez | I can't believe it | 13:21 |
| ivgalvez | kidding :D | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | have to run | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 13:21 |
| ivgalvez | merlin1991: you can package worldclock replacement for devel/testing, DocScrutinizer05 promises not to shoot you | 13:22 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05, please if you have the time take a look to bylaws | 13:22 |
| ivgalvez | and scrutinize it | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | later (this evening), will do, ivgalvez | 13:23 |
| ivgalvez | thanks | 13:23 |
| ivgalvez | we really need feedback | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pleas eping me again about it | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: I'll for sure shoot you if you package the worldclock without proper testing *in CSSU* context, means we have a close look at it, test it ourselves, and discuss our concerns | 13:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but basically I don't see why we can't get it into T | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 13:25 |
| ivgalvez | thanks | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is a momentary opinion, I have to re-read the logs of our previous discussion about it | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe there were details mentioned or concerns raised we are not aware right now | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since I'm in a hurry right now... | 13:27 |
| ivgalvez | happy luch | 13:28 |
| ivgalvez | lunch | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a last comment re busybox: it's a shell like 1000 others, you could - basically - install busybox-power alongside tcsh, bash, whatnot else, on /opt and chose to have it for your user login shell | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's kinda hard to argue why we need to mess with mission critical core system stuff, just for a feature of user shell | 13:31 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is adding stuff to stuff like swapon | 13:31 |
| kerio | adding features to commands like swapon | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, it's not | 13:31 |
| kerio | yes it is, replacing stuff with path precedence only is a PITA | 13:32 |
| ivgalvez | there are tons of fixes also, I use busybox with STBs equipments and old versions (like one packaged in Maemo) are shit | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you define your shell as busybox-POWER (and actually have a proper separate unentangled infra for it, incl binary, path for "builtins" etc), you can swtich from busybox-original to busybox-POWER any time | 13:33 |
| ivgalvez | however, I don't know if it's possible to package it in a better way without replacing original binary | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | without messing with original busybox | 13:33 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah but /sbin/swapon will still point to /bin/busybox | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 13:33 |
| kerio | one of the main uses of busybox-power is specifying swap priority to swapon | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you're a shell crack that knows his way around, you'll define your path to include /opt/bbpower/bin/ where _your_ swapon lives | 13:34 |
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| kerio | sure, it can be done and it's done like that for the gnu stuff too | 13:35 |
| kerio | but it's not exactly convenient | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you know in scripts you ought *always* use FQN to binaries anyway | 13:35 |
| kerio | hm | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | convenient??? c'mon | 13:35 |
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| kerio | by the way, how big is busybox-power when ubifs compresses it? | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you know in scripts you ought *always* use FQN to binaries anywayoes that matter? it should get optified anyway | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | does that matter? it should get optified anyway | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since you *usually* don't need busybox-POWER enhancements during early boot, that's the whole point | 13:44 |
| kerio | why not just properly mount /usr/ as an external partition? | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually that's the reason why we got busybox, I suppose. and also the reason it is like it is and isn't like power from beginning | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification | 13:45 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 13:45 |
| kerio | i know what optification is | 13:45 |
| kerio | but why is it still there? | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't help for the shell doing the moint command though | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it's still there since it's impossible to do proper OTA updates when you mess up system that much | 13:46 |
| kerio | hm | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that OTA in itself holds a problem with proper /usr | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just there'll be incompatible pathes etc then | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 13:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | infobot: ping | 20:23 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:23 |
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