IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Wednesday, 2012-08-22

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Estel_DocScrutinizer05, ping00:56
Estel_well, i got tired of this act-dead bullshit, and did flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flag=force-power-key00:59
Estel_problem solved, as vi_ suggested01:00
Estel_downside - it's much easier to incidentaly turn powered-off n900 on, when sitting inside pocket01:00
Estel_good side is that I don't have n90 0turned off many times :)01:00
kerioEstel_: can you run it from the n900 itself?01:00
Estel_Mentalist Traceur did some program to enable R&D mode from device itself... no idea, if it also allows R&D flags only01:00
Estel_as I have enabled only thjis flag (no blinking on activity, etc)01:00
Estel_good side is that I'm never going to see act-dead again (until FOSS rewrite appear, that won't piss me off so much, probably)01:01
keriowhat does force-power-key do?01:02
Estel_ebery boot reaosn for device will be also pwr-key01:02
Estel_so device don't read it differently when reaosn was "reboot", or "charger plugged" etc01:02
Estel_every thing that make device turn on will be detected as user pressing power button ON01:03
Estel_side effect - you don't need to push power button for 2 seconds to turn device on (no more diode going brighter and brighter), it turns on instantly01:04
kerioi see01:04
Estel_as fuckin act-dead was running every time i pressed power button, it's dieal solution for me01:04
Estel_as force-power-key overwrites it, and device again see it as power button pressed01:04
Estel_so it boots up normally, and stopped pestering me to hell with act-dead01:04
Estel_act-dead is dead!01:05
Estel_I wonder if it also fix the shutdown-on-reboot bug01:05
* Estel_ checks it01:05
Estel_well, it seems *yes*01:06
Estel_haha, after so much time.. not only recent irritating bug, but also ancient shutdown-on-reboot isn't buggying me anymore... How I was able to live so long without force-power-key flag? :D01:07
Estel_10/10 reboot attempts sucessful, with force-power-key01:09
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lufJust FYI I'm on vacation for next 10 days without access to internet. So I'm not totaly dead (just digitaly dead) :D02:50
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freemangordonjonwil: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-im-vkbrenderer3 :P10:48
freemangordonhildon-input-method-plugins almost ready10:49
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jonwilnice :)10:50
freemangordonjonwil: BTW I think I found a problem with imlayouts header file10:50
jonwilyes what problem?10:50
freemangordonhttps://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-im-vkbrenderer3/blobs/master/src/imlayout_vkb.h#line5910:51
jonwilAlso does the vkbrenderer3 look and work the same as the stock widget or are there differences?10:51
freemangordonthe definitions of the shift, tab, etc should be 2 bytes10:51
freemangordonjonwil: it is exactly as stock10:51
jonwilok10:51
freemangordonthanks to HexRays :D10:52
freemangordonit is RE, not a rewrite10:52
jonwil:)10:52
freemangordonso, what about those defines, where did you get them from?10:52
jonwilif you think there are errors in the imlayout_vkb.h file, feel free to change it10:52
jonwilI think they were RE10:52
freemangordonhmm, ok. Do you want to help and make -dev package for imlayouts?10:53
jonwilFeel free to make one, I dont have enough time to do it myself10:54
freemangordonyeah, right :D10:54
freemangordonok10:54
jonwilthat and my Gentoo box seems to be broken for reasons I dont know10:55
jonwilok, now I know why my gentoo box is broken and can fix it11:04
jonwilStill dont have N900 time though :P11:04
jonwilGood job on the hildon-input-method stuff btw11:04
freemangordonthanks11:08
jonwilbtw, hildon-im-common-virtual-settings, osso-applet-textinput and hildon-input-method-configurator would be worth reverse engineering if you are reverse engineering things11:09
jonwilAll 3 have x86 packages11:10
jonwilthose 3 packages along with libi18n-locale-resolver0, libi18n and locale-resolver-data are the 6 packages that are concerned with the language/input language/etc selection11:14
jonwili.e. everything connected to languages, locales, keyboard layouts (hw and virtual) etc11:14
jonwilThe libi18n stuff, everything comes from locale-resolver-data so one would need to figure out the format of those data files :)11:16
jonwilso reverse engineer libi18n-locale-resolver0 might help with that :)11:20
freemangordonyeah, but those are noot needed for portrait VKB aiui11:22
jonwilno but its still nice to have them because people want to add new languages to software :P11:24
freemangordonWTF has happened with gitorious?11:24
freemangordonjonwil: feel free to RE those :P11:24
jonwilheh :P11:25
jonwilbut yeah vkb stuff is good11:25
freemangordonjonwil: BTW I will upload IDA databases on merlin1991's server once I am ready with him-plugins, you may want to look at it11:26
jonwilnot really, I have no interest in vkb stuff anymore if you have made 1:1 clone of it11:26
jonwilI was sort of interested in the input method language stuff I mentioned11:27
jonwilbut I am not anymore11:27
freemangordonjonwil: but it still lacks portrait support. And I am not good enough with GTK to implement it properly11:27
jonwilsince I doubt anyone is still interested in changing the list of valid languages in those binaries11:27
jonwilmy GTK skills are worse :P11:27
freemangordonaah, I see11:27
freemangordonwell, will pester nikolai then :D11:27
jonwilbut yeah now I can remove the input stuff from my lists :)11:28
freemangordonfuck, gitorious is down :(11:29
jonwilsince you did basically what I would have done had I done it (1:1 clone of the vkb renderer)11:29
freemangordonhmm, someone should edit wiki page with the closed stuff11:29
jonwilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages seems pretty close to accurate AFAIK11:30
jonwilWhats missing from it?11:30
freemangordon3 packages to be removed - vkbrenderer, western_fkb, western_fkb_common11:30
freemangordonjonwil: not saying something is missing11:30
freemangordonbut the above 3 are no more closed source11:30
jonwilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packageswhich 3?11:31
jonwilwhich 3?11:31
jonwiloh those 3 :)11:31
freemangordon vkbrenderer, western_fkb, western_fkb_common11:31
jonwildidn't see that11:31
jonwilok, someone needs to put the git urls under "Source Code URL"11:31
jonwiland set FOSS Replacement as appropriate11:32
jonwilget me the right URLs and I will edit that page :)11:32
freemangordon https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-im-vkbrenderer311:34
freemangordonfor vkbrenderer11:34
freemangordonhttps://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-input-method-plugins11:34
freemangordonfor the other two packages11:34
freemangordonthat one is still not ready, but it will be in a couple of days, so NP to edit the page now11:35
freemangordongitorious still down :(11:37
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freemangordonjonwil: are you sure package names there are correct?11:40
jonwilwhich package names?11:40
freemangordonhmm my bad, they are11:41
freemangordonhildon-im-fkb, libhildon-im-western-plugin-common3 and libhildon-im-vkbrenderer3 are the actual packages11:43
jonwilso you are only cloning some of the packages of hildon-input-method-plugins and not all of them?11:45
freemangordonjonwil: do you know which packages are produced by source  hildon-input-method-plugins?11:45
jonwilyes you can find that out from the package files11:46
freemangordonbesides  hildon-im-fkb, libhildon-im-western-plugin-common11:46
freemangordon* libhildon-im-western-plugin-common311:46
freemangordonI can re the others too, NP with that11:46
freemangordonjust gimme the names11:47
jonwilthe ones I can see are hildon-im-virtual-keyboard-layouts11:47
jonwilhildon-im-plugin-base-settings11:47
jonwilhildon-im-fkb11:47
jonwilhildon-im-keyboard-assisant-scv11:47
jonwilhildon-im-keyboard-assistant-scv11:48
jonwilhildon-im-common-virtual-settings11:48
jonwilhildon-input-method-plugins-western11:48
jonwillibhildon-im-western-plugin-common311:48
jonwilhildon-im-keyboard-assistant11:48
jonwilthe ones that exist in x86 are11:52
jonwilhildon-im-common-virtual-settings11:52
jonwilhildon-im-fkb11:52
jonwilhildon-im-plugin-base-settings11:53
jonwilhildon-im-virtual-keyboard-layouts11:53
jonwillibhildon-im-western-plugin-common311:53
jonwilhildon-im-virtual-keyboard-layouts is non-binary11:54
freemangordonhmm, lots of work11:54
jonwilas is hildon-im-plugin-base-settings11:55
freemangordonany clue what those -scv packages are?11:55
jonwilyou are doing hildon-im-fkb and libhildon-im-western-plugin-common311:55
freemangordonyep11:55
jonwilso the only x86 package we have for hildon-input-method-plugins that remains is hildon-im-common-virtual-settings11:56
jonwilthe rest are armel only11:56
jonwiland therefore presumably out of your scope11:56
jonwilThe -scv package is for the symbols keyboard11:57
freemangordonwell, it depends, if those are small libs, I am ok to RE them from ARM without decompilers11:57
jonwiland contains both the layout files for it and the the binary for it11:57
freemangordonare you sure? as vkbrenderer3 draws symbols KBD too iirc11:57
jonwilIts not the renderer11:58
jonwilit handles the layouts and talking to the renderer11:58
freemangordonyeah, I see12:00
freemangordonarm binary is 18k, could be possible to re it12:00
freemangordonbu why those are missing on x86?12:01
jonwilno idea12:01
jonwilso on x86 you have /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/western_common_vim_settings.so12:01
jonwiland on ARM you have /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/hildon_keyboard_assistant_scv.so, /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/hildon_keyboard_assistant.so, /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/hildon_im_keyboard_monitor.so and /usr/bin/hildon-im-xkbtool12:04
jonwilthat covers everything thats in hildon-input-method-plugins12:04
freemangordononly those 5?12:05
jonwilyes12:05
jonwilthose plus the ones you are also doing12:05
freemangordongood, will keep the list somewhere12:05
jonwilbah, gitorius is still down :(12:07
freemangordonyes :(12:07
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jonwilGoing to see what other hildon-input-method related binaries exist that you could consider cloning whilst you are doing it :P12:12
jonwilin case any are worth it for portrait vkb or other CSSU things12:12
jonwilusr/bin/hildon-input-method-configurator.bin seems quite important to h-i-m stuffs :)12:21
jonwiland there is x86 version :)12:21
freemangordonjonwil: hold on, I want to finish with what is really needed and return to CSSU kernel :P12:22
jonwil:P12:22
jonwilyeah its not worth cloning libimlayouts0 for example12:23
jonwilnow that we have -dev package for it12:23
freemangordondo we?12:23
freemangordonwhere is it?12:24
jonwilwell we have a .h for it12:24
freemangordonaah, ok12:24
jonwiland can make a dev package12:24
jonwil:P12:24
freemangordonI know, that is what i asked an hour ago :P12:24
jonwilso the only things worth doing for hildon-input-method are12:24
jonwilx86 /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/western_common_vim_settings.so, /usr/bin/hildon-input-method-configurator.bin and arm /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/hildon_keyboard_assistant_scv.so, /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/hildon_keyboard_assistant.so, /usr/lib/hildon-input-method/hildon_im_keyboard_monitor.so and /usr/bin/hildon-im-xkbtool12:25
freemangordonyes12:25
jonwilHow many of those you want to clone is up to you of course :)12:25
freemangordoni'll update my list12:25
jonwiland no I have no idea exactly what those do12:25
freemangordonwell, I won't touch ARMs until I have plenty of free time12:26
jonwil:)12:26
jonwildo the 2 x86 ones then :P12:26
freemangordonwill see, lemme finish with the important stuff first, I have about 20-30 functions remaining12:26
jonwil:)12:27
merlin1991damn gitorious, always down when one wants todo stuff12:27
freemangordonyes12:27
merlin1991in other words, I just wanted todo several git pulls and prepare a new -testing release12:27
jonwilso what do hildon-im-fkb and libhildon-im-western-plugin-common3 do?12:27
freemangordon hildon-im-fkb draws everything besides the buttons and handles clipboard and language change12:28
freemangordon libhildon-im-western-plugin-common3 has a couple of helper functions, it is very small, 7k x8612:29
jonwilok :)12:29
freemangordonhildon-im-fkb also handles word prediction12:29
freemangordonit is huge, 60k or so12:29
freemangordonthanks god we have x86 and HexRays, that would be nearly impossible to RE from ARM12:30
jonwilyeah :)12:30
jonwilIf I had x86 version of icd stuff, systemui stuff, csd stuff or connui stuff, I would be seriously far along with reverse engineering those12:31
jonwil:)12:31
jonwilso yeah hildon_keyboard_assistant_scv.so is what draws the rest of the symbols keyboard (and calls the vkbrenderer to render the buttons)12:35
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ivgalvezhi freemangordon and jonwil12:39
jonwilhi12:40
ivgalvezlooking at your comments about closed packages in Fremantle, is there any plans to introduce in CSSU any of the already existing replacements for widgets?12:41
jonwilwhich widgets are those?12:41
freemangordonivgalvez: hi12:41
ivgalvezfor example calendar, media player, ...12:41
ivgalvezI think most of them are from Nicolia12:41
ivgalvezNicolai12:41
jonwilI guess it depends on if those are replacements or just new apps for the same thing12:42
jonwilLook at what happened with the new camera-ui that wasnt a proper replacement12:42
jonwilpeople complained about it AFAIK12:42
ivgalvezpeople complaining for bugs in testing releases?12:42
jonwilbut yeah if there are genuine replacements for closed packages that are not listed here http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages then they should be listed here12:42
ivgalvezfunny12:42
jonwilno, not complaints about bugs, complaints that the new camera-ui did not do what the old camera-ui did12:43
jonwili.e. it wasnt a replacement, it was a new app that happened to do a few of the same things12:43
ivgalvezpeople complains, it's the nature12:43
jonwilwhereas the calculator replacement is just that, its a replacement with possible new features :)12:43
ivgalvezGnome 3, KDE 412:43
merlin1991well currently there is a bug in the calculator :/12:44
ivgalvezfixable now, as it's OSS12:44
ivgalvezalso jonwil, don't forget that complainers make more noise than satisfied users12:45
jonwiltrue :)12:45
ivgalvezme for example I'm satisfied with camera replacement since day 112:45
ivgalvezI haven't shout it though12:45
chem|stivgalvez: so you don't use it?12:45
ivgalvezI use it a lot12:45
ivgalvezit's by all means superior to Nokia12:46
chem|stivgalvez: then you did not find bugs others did...12:46
jonwilbtw, I wonder if anyone will make any use of my bluetooth-sysinfo and wl1251-cal replacements for anything useful...12:46
chem|stivgalvez: true at least12:46
ivgalvezchem|st: I remember a few quirks with the first iterations12:46
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ivgalvezbut that's normal, being testing stuff12:47
chem|stivgalvez: speaking of day 112:47
freemangordonchem|st: what exactly bugs exists in latest nikocam?12:47
chem|stfreemangordon: well it segfaults quiet often but that might be another issue12:48
ivgalvezworks for me (tm)12:49
chem|stoften for $user that is12:49
freemangordonsegfaults?12:49
freemangordonany chance to get a coredump?12:49
ivgalvezprovide a link to bugzilla, otherwise it didn't happen ;)12:50
chem|stif waking up from standby it does 1/10 something like 1/30 would be for users I guess12:50
freemangordonchem|st: which version is that?12:50
chem|stcssu testing one12:50
freemangordonT4?12:50
chem|stfreemangordon: as I said it might be another issue as my device plays up from time to time12:51
freemangordonchem|st: do me a favor and capture a coredump please12:51
chem|stfreemangordon: I do not use it as productive phone currently so I do not have it with me sry12:51
freemangordonchem|st: well, you said it is not stable and segfaults12:51
freemangordonnow you're saying that might be it is stable12:52
chem|stfreemangordon: and I do not know if it is my device or the camapp12:52
freemangordoni see12:52
chem|stI can tell you how to get there if that happens on no other 3 devices I guess it is my hardware12:52
freemangordonok, tell me12:52
ivgalvezCSSU Testing is much more stable than what it should be12:53
ivgalvezthere's almost not real testing there12:53
freemangordonchem|st: that is even better than coredump12:53
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chem|stsettings all auto and 2 seconds reviewer, take picture in fullauto, tab gallery in reviewer; wait some 10 seconds to let the camapp go to standby for real; go back - BOOM12:55
chem|stmaybe it is not 1/10... maybe it is 1/15-20 but still12:55
freemangordonchem|st: ok, will try it12:55
chem|stmost of the time the app does not get idle long enough12:55
chem|stbut if I go back and forth and review alot it crashes on me12:56
merlin1991hm gitorious gives at least a 503 now12:56
freemangordonyeaah, much better :D:D:D12:57
chem|stwith mbarcode that happens instantly when cammodule gets a wake up so it might be a broken lib instead of the cam app12:57
chem|stbut that started after cssu and was all fine before12:58
chem|stiirc12:58
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freemangordonhehe, a memleak in hildon_western_fkb.so13:20
merlin1991time to fix it ;)13:33
merlin1991also gitorious is back (finally)13:34
DocScrutinizer05nicocam "segfault" been traced down to DSP-segfault. Now you could argue that's not anything nicocam touched/tweaked, but fact is I've not seen similar failures with stock camera-ui. And a missing link is just that: something you haven't found out the details of it yet13:39
merlin1991damn I'd need pali and luf13:51
merlin1991freemangordon: ping14:01
freemangordonmerlin1991: pong14:01
merlin1991anything on gitorious from that isn't thumb related and should go into the testing release that I'm preparing currently?14:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: who traced it?14:01
freemangordonmerlin1991: Qt, but you should pull the commit from thumb to master14:02
freemangordontinymail too14:02
DocScrutinizer05btw for nicocam - like for so many other packages that could get 'replaced' - applies the principle of not making something mandatory just because of it been mandatory in original maemo MP. E.G. for nicocam (or any other cam-ui replacement) it's ridiculously simple to make stuff optional, so user can decide in a simple picker GUI which of the available programs shall be his default14:02
freemangordonmerlin1991: better wait for me to do it, i'll try to do it when I am bick home14:03
freemangordon*back14:03
merlin1991freemangordon: is tinymail in -thumb too?14:03
freemangordonyep14:03
merlin1991err i mean the commit in the thumb branch? :D14:03
freemangordonnot sure, need some time to check14:03
freemangordonbut anyway, I need a lunch otherwise i will fall on the ground, bbl14:04
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I traced it a few weeks ago, and reported "live" here in this chan14:04
merlin1991I hate to build qt, it takes forever14:04
DocScrutinizer05I still think that getting rid of MP at all - or at very least moving out of MP as many pkgs as possible - is one of the major long term goals of CSSU. We should carefully evaluate dependencies whenever opportunity arises, and replace silly MP concept by proper comprehensive dependencies for the particular pkg. Freedom of choice is an extremely high value in CSSU, and it also relieves many of the QA requirements from replacements,14:10
DocScrutinizer05when they can get opted out by user any time14:10
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: well you go patch apt and watch the world burn14:12
DocScrutinizer05(silly) well for Nokia it's probably been a sensible choice to not waste manpower on detailed dependency checking&setup, when it came to their zoo of closed blobs that didn't offer any alternative. For a system/"distro" like CSSU this rationale doesn't apply at all14:13
merlin1991there are a few (C) nokia patches in the maemo apt that make this basically impossible14:13
DocScrutinizer05well, we got sucha gifted bunch of developers here, don't tell me we can't tackle that14:14
DocScrutinizer05after all apt is FOSS afaik :-)14:14
DocScrutinizer05so whatever Nokia "invented", we probably can come up with a superset that mitigates or even cures any flaws in Nokia's concept14:15
DocScrutinizer05first we need to internalize and grok that we *want* to get rid of MP, and ponder options on every pkg we touch14:20
DocScrutinizer05as long as we see MP as a God-given fact and just wonder how we can live _with_ it, we neglect to think how we might live better _without_ it and miss opportunities to move into right direction14:21
merlin1991freemangordon: I guess in qt you mean Improve performance of partial updates in raster window surface on X11. ?14:22
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: main problem is, that we have no update utility besides ham14:22
DocScrutinizer05:nod:14:23
merlin1991and ham is bs to udpate a list of packages14:23
DocScrutinizer05but aiui we can patch HAM14:23
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: well, obviously HAM is missing some functionality that's equivalent to apt-get dist-upgrade ?14:24
DocScrutinizer05again due to MP concept made such function obsolete14:25
DocScrutinizer05AIUI14:25
DocScrutinizer05(I'm not the brightest packager, so just my humble 2 ct)14:26
merlin1991the fact is that nokia removed the core / not core conecept form packaging, apt would never remove a core package from the system and for every other package it has to be either be user installed or a dependency of something else14:29
DocScrutinizer05mhm, lemme think about that. And maybe there are alternative methods to "standard apt way" so we could have both - MP compatibility plus a migration path to something better14:30
* DocScrutinizer05 thinks of abstract concepts like standard apt on top of nokia apt14:33
DocScrutinizer05or a mode switch inside HAM, depending on repo14:33
DocScrutinizer05some pretty green spontanous ideas14:34
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DocScrutinizer05wait, you say MP is nokia's replacement for a "core" tag on some packages?14:35
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DocScrutinizer05I think we *might* safely assume that there won't be any new MP version from Nokia anytime this millenium, so maybe we can base on that, and redefine the way HAM/apt works for MP14:39
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: when Nokia removed the core/non-core concept, why can't we re-introduce it?14:41
merlin1991because some closed packages miss the core flag in their packagaing14:42
DocScrutinizer05well, it's HAM/apt looking for that tag14:42
merlin1991so if we introduce it again we can have fun like you and sip rtcom14:42
DocScrutinizer05we can patch HAM to change the way it "looks for core tag" - e.g parse if pkg is in MP14:43
DocScrutinizer05A pkg from repo X? Repo X also has MP pkg? A pkg in that MP pkg? -> emulate core tag14:44
DocScrutinizer05my naive approach14:44
DocScrutinizer05(not that I've wrapped my head around all the complexity of the problem any precentage yet)14:45
DocScrutinizer05what we need further in HAM/apt is "don't process MP like a normal package, rather ignore", and "override emulated core tag by true core tag in cssu repo, if any newer version there" (latter probably usual standard apt feature)14:46
DocScrutinizer05btw SIP: 2 days ago I noticed inbound SIP calls via 3G are not signalled (no ringing), but later on show up as "missed call" :-/14:49
DocScrutinizer05...while outbound SIP call seems to work just fine14:49
DocScrutinizer05first of all I ought test via WLAN instead of 3G14:50
DocScrutinizer05meh, WLAN works. Curse O214:51
DocScrutinizer05seems I have to complain about their friggin NAT14:52
DocScrutinizer05(<merlin1991> because some closed packages miss the core flag in their packagaing) we could patch HAM to read a textfile list of such pkgs, and emulate the core tag for those.14:53
DocScrutinizer05hell, we probably can even patch apt's database to set the core flag on those pkgs14:54
DocScrutinizer05somebody claimed he's doing such stuff all the time14:54
merlin1991in that case it would be dpkgs database14:54
DocScrutinizer05yep14:54
merlin1991and apt's db aswell14:54
merlin1991but apt rebuilds the db on each apt-get update14:54
DocScrutinizer05hmm, we got control over that as well14:55
merlin1991in the end we have a 3000 lines commit on gitorious that starts with // bloody ugly hack to work around nokia mp starts here14:55
DocScrutinizer05probably 5 source lines to find pkg name in exception list and set core flag if found14:55
DocScrutinizer05well, 3000 lines are not bad actually14:56
DocScrutinizer05though I guess it's mor elike 600 max14:56
* DocScrutinizer05 resets the "missed call" notification on 4 devices14:57
DocScrutinizer05btw //pretty cute patch to work around ugly Nokia MP hack15:00
DocScrutinizer05we could even write a wrapper around "apt-get update" to postprocess databases each time an update been done. Could probebly even been done as shellscript, with sed etc15:02
DocScrutinizer05and to be absolutely sure, we also could implement a simple "daemon" that just does "while true; do inotifywait -e modify <database> && do-our-fix-databases; done"15:05
DocScrutinizer05even: while true; do inotifywait -e modify <database> && (while kill -0 $(fuser <database>); do sleep 0.2; done) &&  kill -SIGSTOP  $(pidof apt apt-worker hildon-app-manager dpkg) &&  do-our-fix-databases; &&  kill -SIGCONT  $(pidof apt apt-worker hildon-app-manager dpkg) done15:13
DocScrutinizer05get a script for sed to edit the databases, done? :-)15:15
DocScrutinizer05(if there are no better dpkg/apt related tools for editing database)15:16
DocScrutinizer05doesn't look all that daunting to me15:17
DocScrutinizer05and for sure no 3000 lines of code ;-)15:18
DocScrutinizer05let's just discuss feasibility instead of denying to think about possible pathes to get rid of MP15:19
DocScrutinizer05after all it's a constant PITA15:19
DocScrutinizer05and I'd happily volunteer to write such scripts/daemons to cope with fixing the missing core tags in Nokia's repos15:20
DocScrutinizer05after we discussed the concept and found it should be ok15:21
DocScrutinizer05as mentioned above, I'm not the brightest packager, so I miss guidance on requirements for the design/concept. I however can implement it once we got together all the requirements and operation principle15:22
freemangordonmerlin1991: yes, partial updates performance commit15:34
freemangordonmerlin1991: tinymai commits are in master15:35
freemangordonbut both Qt and tinymail are missing proper debian/changelog15:36
freemangordonmerlin1991: aah, microb-engine :D:D:D15:36
freemangordonmerlin1991: https://bugs.maemo.org/12564 and https://bugs.maemo.org/12555 are fixed in microb-engine15:39
povbot_Bug 12564: microb-engine: Daemon does not shut down properly when no connection and browser closed when connection dialog opens15:39
povbot_Bug 12555: microb-engine: CVE-2010-1205: Buffer overflow in embedded libpng15:39
freemangordonproper debian/changelog missing too, sorry for that :(15:39
freemangordonmerlin1991: keep in mind that maybe some dependencies in -mp are not in place (libxml and libalarm iirc)15:47
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DocScrutinizer05wow, povbot_ does multi16:12
DocScrutinizer05I'd love to see CVE against fsckng flash getting catched (note I didn't say 'fixed')16:13
DocScrutinizer05known open vulnerability16:13
DocScrutinizer05I'd really prefer the process that runs flash plugin wouldn't have full access to everything on my device16:14
DocScrutinizer05we probably should've written a PoC exploit for the very first security update published by adobe after N900 rollout, now not even real exploits out in the wild tailored particularly for N900/ARM/fremantle would make Nokia consider publishing a security patch16:17
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jonwilIts a pitty we dont have a newer flash build that we can use16:37
DocScrutinizer05we got some, alas without hw accel afaik, and basically not any less obsolete than stock flash-plugin16:44
DocScrutinizer05stock is flash9 with some backports from flash10 iirc, the 'leaked' one is a generic flash10 implementation without hw accel.16:46
Lava_CroftFlash on N900 is almost a reason to not get the N90016:48
jonwilBest answer would be for someone to make flashblocker for N900 that can disable Flash completly16:53
Lava_CroftMy first experience with Flash on N900 was also the last one16:54
Lava_CroftWhat a deception16:54
Lava_CroftWell, it did fix one thing for me personally: I never ever long for flash on mobiles anymore, since the N90016:54
Lava_CroftAdobe does neither, these days:)16:54
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RaimuIsn't deleting the Flash plugin a very apt Flash blocker on the n900?17:14
RaimuAnyway, what was that thing about n9's Flash being adaptable onto n900? I vaguely recall someone making such a statement, somewhere.17:16
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amiconnWouldn't it still be possible to repackage a .deb even if the contained app is closed source?18:06
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Estel_Hey, N900's flassh 9 isn't accelerated too18:27
Estel_why everyone claim it is?18:27
Estel_it's why only 240p videos in Youtube.18:27
Estel_the "leaked" generic flash 10 is just horribly unoptimized amd bugged18:27
Estel_and*18:27
Estel_but it's not last word of adboe's empire of evil, se we will probably see N900's "native" flash 10 version, soon. But it's not accelerated just like our current flash 918:28
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Estel_flash is useless, anyway ;)18:33
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DocScrutinizer05WTF would produce a genuine N900 flash10?19:08
amiconnEstel_: The leaked flash 10 (there seem to be several point releases) usually stops playing youtube videos after the pre-buffered part is used up19:30
ShadowJKIt'd be easy to tell, you van see with powertop which units are active19:35
ShadowJKiva2 = video accel19:37
ShadowJKflash wants to use the video, decoded, in rgb colourspace, whereas iva2 is suited for hw decode and displa through dss which then takes care of converion to rgb, but then you can't actually "see" the video from software :)19:41
freemangordonShadowJK: but DSP has colorspace conversion codecs19:42
freemangordonvpp that is19:42
freemangordonand actually DSP driver on n900 does not support decoding to FB19:43
ShadowJKvpp?19:43
freemangordonvideo post processing19:43
ShadowJKi would've thought it'd be saner to use dss19:43
ShadowJKto minimize amount of rgb you have to pass around19:44
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ShadowJK(something that isn't compatible with flash's way of doing things)19:44
freemangordonShadowJK: won't work, you have only 2 overlays19:44
freemangordonand there is a limit of how much up/down sampling DSS can do19:45
freemangordonthat is why 720p does not play on tv-out19:45
ShadowJKI was under the impression that currently dss is indeed used by media player stuff19:46
freemangordonit is19:46
ShadowJKright19:46
freemangordonbut you cannot use it for ambeded plugin in browser AIUI19:46
freemangordon*embeded19:46
ShadowJKyesx19:46
ShadowJKthat's what I'm saying19:47
freemangordonimagine a web page with several flash videos19:47
freemangordonbut you stil can use dsp19:47
ShadowJKthat the best hw accel path is incompatible with flash19:47
freemangordonthe major problem aiui is that flash does not use NEON19:47
freemangordonNEON is second to the best19:48
ShadowJKeven with neon, 480p is a struggle19:48
freemangordonwhat bitrate?19:48
freemangordonand why do you think that?19:48
ShadowJK1M main/high profile19:48
ShadowJKbaseline probably works19:49
freemangordoncamera subsystem can do up/downsampling in HW memory to memory, so you can chain it19:49
freemangordonso you youse NEON for decoding and capera for resizing19:49
freemangordondamn typos :D19:49
merlin1991there has to be a way to fix hw ids to alasa device numbers19:50
merlin1991my usb headset and the nvidia hdmi audio output keep swapping around on reboot which messes with my .asoundrc :/19:51
freemangordonShadowJK: camera subsystem is called ISP19:51
javispedromerlin1991: use device names ;P19:51
ShadowJKIs there enough bandwidth for it?19:52
merlin1991my asoundrc looks like pcm.!default { type plug; slave.pcm dmix:2; }19:52
freemangordonmerlin1991: did you see may comments for microb-engine, tinymail and Qt?19:52
merlin1991yes19:52
freemangordonShadowJK: well, 720p plays with no problem, so there should be19:52
merlin1991javispedro: how would I use a devicename indstead of the dmix:2 part? and how do I find out the devicename I need?19:52
* ShadowJK recalls P2-P3 era, where memcpy on a decoded frame meant 30% hit on decoding speed :)19:53
freemangordonShadowJK: according to some benchmarks memcpy using ARM/NEON/PLG is about 600 MB/s19:53
javispedromerlin1991: /proc/asound/cards lists card names19:53
freemangordon*PLD (preload)19:53
freemangordonor even 700, so no bandwith problem19:54
javispedroto MEMORY?19:54
javispedroO.o19:54
javispedromore like half of that19:54
freemangordonjavispedro: memory to memory19:54
merlin1991javispedro: which part is the card name? ie my internal card is  0 [PCH            ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH in /proc/asound/cards19:54
javispedromerlin1991: PCH19:54
freemangordonjavispedro: lemme find that19:54
javispedrofreemangordon: no way, half of that _at most_19:54
merlin1991so I just use dmix:PCH in my .asoundrc and it should work ?19:55
javispedromerlin1991: I do not know the syntax of asoundrc by heart, I do know that in the card 0 statements you can use card Intel e.g. and it will work19:55
javispedrofreemangordon: I'd believe 700 for L2 to L219:56
merlin1991javispedro: it worked :)19:56
freemangordonjavispedro: could be, I am trying to find the article19:56
freemangordonjavispedro: http://sourceware.org/ml/libc-ports/2009-07/msg00000.html19:58
freemangordonthat is without L1 on 500 MHz19:58
merlin1991btw freemangordon where doe sthe Qt speed improvement help (which use applications)19:58
merlin1991or is it a general rendering improvement19:58
freemangordonmerlin1991: read the description19:58
freemangordongeneral19:58
merlin1991did you happen to think of it, or is it backported from upstream? :D19:59
freemangordonmerlin1991: backported19:59
freemangordonmerlin1991: I think there is a link to original patch, lemme check19:59
javispedrofreemangordon: well, it says ~370, nowhere near 700 =)20:00
merlin1991freemangordon: true, there is one20:00
freemangordonjavispedro: yes, my bad20:00
* javispedro still considers that quite high, goes lookup LPDDR specs for beaglebard20:00
javispedro*board20:00
merlin1991freemangordon: sometimes I should display full commit messages, normally I just have the shortened 1 line version :D20:00
freemangordonbut still is pretty enough for the case we were discussing20:00
freemangordonjavispedro: I didn't find what I was looking for, I still think the speeds were about 600-70020:01
freemangordonjavispedro: and have in mind DMA can be used20:02
freemangordonboth ISP and DSP support DMA20:03
merlin1991does anybody know how busybox-power deploys the binaries exactly?20:03
merlin1991because pali did a fix for something busybox related, and I'm not sure if we mess up busybox-power installations if we force a busybox upgrade20:03
merlin1991FFS gitorious is 503 again20:05
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DocScrutinizer05(<merlin1991> my usb headset and the nvidia hdmi audio output keep swapping around ) there's a howto on alsa.org or soemwhere how to load drivers in a defined way20:08
DocScrutinizer05dafaq: http://alsa.opensrc.org/Index.php/MultipleCards#Recommended_solution20:10
javispedrofreemangordon: I repeat the test on my N950. for L1 speeds are exactly doubled (<1% error), as expected (500 vs 1Ghz), L2 speeds are tripled (unexpected..), external memory access is the same (also <1% error)20:12
merlin1991dafaq "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs."20:12
DocScrutinizer05http://alsa.opensrc.org/Hotplugging_USB_audio_devices_(Howto)20:12
javispedrofreemangordon: except that memcpy_neon no longer has any speed advantage (expected, as LPDDR is the bottleneck)20:12
DocScrutinizer05look there, you'll eventually find how to pass device to modprobe alsa20:12
javispedroyou ain't getting 800 out of LPDDR, considering one bank can do around ~50MBps only20:14
javispedros/800/70020:14
javispedroplus the usual ARM bandwidth limitations20:15
freemangordonjavispedro: ok, I won't argu as I could easily be wrong, the point was that eve 300 MB/s is ok20:15
freemangordon*even20:15
javispedro(the ~50Mbps is assuming 200Mhz, no idea at what freq DDR runs on the N9/00)20:16
freemangordonisn't it ddr2?20:16
javispedrodouble the figure then :P20:16
javispedro(I don't remember, I though beagleboard was lpddr1)20:17
javispedronah, bb is lpddr1, and @166Mhz20:18
javispedrotherefore N9's also lpddr1 at same freq.20:18
freemangordonn900 is @ 133, ain't?20:19
javispedroI suspect it will be 166 too, but can't really check20:20
javispedronow, why is the L2 cache so fast in the N9's A8?20:22
DocScrutinizer05syslog20:27
DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall ram clockspeed mentioned there20:27
DocScrutinizer05(or in serial console of NOLO)20:28
DocScrutinizer05of course there should also be diagnostic tools that tell you20:29
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merlin1991WTF: modest does not build thanks too this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1161281/21:06
freemangordonmerlin1991: which rules file do you use?21:07
merlin1991aaah21:07
merlin1991I keep forgeting that modest / tinymail have those different rules fiels21:07
freemangordon:P21:08
freemangordonthe same for control21:08
freemangordondebian/control that is21:08
merlin1991freemangordon: only control file in modest had more than one option21:10
merlin1991so I'm still sitting here and wondering WTF?21:10
freemangordontry to fakeroot debian/rules clean21:11
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merlin1991ah sry freemangordon I've only been blind21:13
merlin1991hm or not21:13
merlin1991now I only confused myself, (was in the tinymail folder) tinymail does have several rules files21:14
freemangordontinymail has21:15
merlin1991I remember getting this fixed the last time I built modest, no idea how though anymore21:15
freemangordonboth control and rules21:15
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merlin1991yes, but modest only has different control files21:16
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merlin1991hm why doensn't it work21:23
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fw190Damn HAM did it again21:50
fw190I've been uninstaling clipman21:50
fw190and it instaled some beltowers by itself21:50
fw190without asking21:50
fw190just while uninstaling instaled another app21:51
fw190It must happen in some random way21:51
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fw190as a yer ago I had same situation but with another app21:51
fw190any hints how toavoid such behaviour of HAM?21:52
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