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| amiconn | Btw, what will happen right after installing thumb stuff (with a kernel including the workaround) before reboot? | 00:39 |
|---|---|---|
| amiconn | At that time, thumb compiled binaries are already in place, but the running kernel doesn't have the workaround... | 00:39 |
| kerio | amiconn: that's why you first install and run the kernel, and *then* the rest of cssu-thumb | 00:42 |
| kerio | at least, that's what i'd do | 00:43 |
| kerio | anyway, upgrading mp-* makes you reboot anyway | 00:43 |
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| amiconn | First installing the thumb kernel, and then rebooting before installing other thumb stuff makes sense, but does ham enforce this? | 00:56 |
| kerio | i doubt it | 00:57 |
| kerio | it's not like "the thumb kernel" makes sense | 00:57 |
| amiconn | I know I have to reboot after upgrading mp-*, but that happens after the upgrade finished (and *may* start newly installed binaries) | 00:57 |
| amiconn | Yeah, kernel with thumb errata workaround in place | 00:58 |
| kerio | i don't think HAM is equipped to deal with what's almost like a change in architecture | 00:58 |
| amiconn | Imo the workaround should be added to all kernels if possible (power and stock), and be always be enabled if this is ever going to be published to a repo with 'stable' in its name | 01:01 |
| kerio | freemangordon: wait, why is thumb microB faster than the ARM one? isn't it supposed to be slower? | 01:04 |
| tadzik | I assume it's swapping far less often | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | amiconn: you probably haven't understood the implications of what this thumb-erratum-workaround does | 01:08 |
| amiconn | I think I did. It flushes the branch cache on context switch | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which will slow down things, for everybody | 01:09 |
| kerio | D: | 01:09 |
| kerio | madness | 01:09 |
| amiconn | Yes, by how many permille? | 01:09 |
| kerio | well, it's worth it if you're using thumb2 binaries | 01:10 |
| amiconn | You'll notice when running a benchmark, but otherwise? | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | up to you to come up with numbers, it's you who demands the patch should go into any available kernel and thus users have no more choice about to use it or not | 01:10 |
| amiconn | I think the speed gain by fewer cache misses and less swapping is much higher than the little speed loss | 01:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, the fix is enabled by default in KP51 | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "I think" is a weak argument | 01:11 |
| amiconn | Real-world speed gain, that is | 01:11 |
| kerio | but nothing prevents us from making it disabled by default in the future omap1 | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, kerio. That's why I suggested to get that switch to enable/disable it | 01:12 |
| kerio | amiconn: well, it would only give you a slowdown if you don't install thumb2 binaries | 01:12 |
| amiconn | I'd rather accept the speed loss for everybody that create a situation where someone might end up with an unbootable system | 01:13 |
| amiconn | s/that/than/ | 01:13 |
| infobot | amiconn meant: I'd rather accept the speed loss for everybody than create a situation where someone might end up with an unbootable system | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 01:13 |
| kerio | amiconn: that's stupid | 01:13 |
| kerio | the n900 is slow enough as it is | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so why are you thinking about forcing a new kernel on everybody then, even on those users who think they don't want to take that risk of having an unbootable system due to something they don't want to use? | 01:14 |
| amiconn | You may not have read my entire sentence. I said "..if this is ever going to be published to a repo with 'stable' in its name" | 01:15 |
| amiconn | "this" referring to "thumb compiled binaries, of course | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Imo the workaround should be added to all kernels if possible (power and stock), | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, ok | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, thumb compiled binaries probably won't go to any repo with a plain "stable" without "thumb" in the name, for that very reason | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a lot of users don't see this as an improvement of stability of the system | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and so they might prefer to stay with a plain ARM system | 01:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but freemangordon said it's ballzy fast! | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quite a number of *very* experienced developers still doubts stability of thumb on N900 at large | 01:19 |
| kerio | for some value of ballzy | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I for one am fine with current speed of my N900 | 01:19 |
| Raimu | FWIW I haven't seen slowdown with the fix-inc'd kernel. | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, expected | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the overhead during context switching is negligible _under normal conditions_ | 01:20 |
| * amiconn will very likely migrate to thumb | 01:20 | |
| Raimu | But no, just looking at that depressing tmo thread it's not for general use. | 01:20 |
| amiconn | Not so much because of the speed gain, but because of the reduced memory footprint | 01:21 |
| kerio | Raimu: the depressing tmo thread is caused by morons | 01:21 |
| kerio | and by the fact that it's TMO | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | amiconn: sane rationale | 01:21 |
| Raimu | kerio: Well, yes, morons run this world. | 01:21 |
| amiconn | Itt seems the OOM killer kicks in quite often on the N900 | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh! really? | 01:22 |
| * amiconn should check the logs | 01:22 | |
| Raimu | DocScrutinizer05: What sort of conditions are the abnormal ones? | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should happen no earlier than after it ate all your swap | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict abnormal | 01:22 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'abnormal' (1 of 5): aberrant, abominable, absurd, amorphous, anomalistic, anomalous, atrocious, atypical, bereft of reason, brainsick, crackbrained, cracked, crank, crankish, cranky, crazed, crazy, criminal, crotchety, daft, delinquent, deluded, demented, deprived of reason, deranged, deviant, deviative, different, disgraceful, disoriented, disproportionate, distraught, divergent, dotty, eccentric, erratic, evil, exceptional, fey, ... | 01:22 |
| Raimu | DocScrutinizer05: Haw, I was thinking more about an example of a situation where the switching would do something really unexpected. | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you suppose I expect the unexpected? :-D | 01:23 |
| Raimu | :D | 01:24 |
| Raimu | Fair enough. | 01:24 |
| Raimu | You do have sage powers. | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *could* figure something related to unusual IRQ load, created by whatever, e.g. accelerometer | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly the situations where you don't like to see additional overhead slowing down system response time | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that's just cloudy visions | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | range of context switches per second (when really active system, not in idle) may vary by a factor 50 | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usual benchmarks are completely unsiuted for testing any impact of additional overhead on context switching | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as context switches are mostly related to interactive actions at large | 01:29 |
| kerio | misread that as "unsluted" | 01:29 |
| kerio | hm, is there a way to only apply the fix selectively, on the thumb2 processes? | 01:31 |
| freemangordon | no | 01:31 |
| freemangordon | because errata hits no matter ARM or thumb | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not how this workaround works | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 01:31 |
| kerio | hm, perhaps beginning to apply the fix once the first thumb2 binary is started? | 01:32 |
| freemangordon | why? | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: simply forget it | 01:32 |
| kerio | so there's no risk of running thumb2 binaries without it, but there won't be any slowdown on a system that doesn't run any thumb2 binary | 01:32 |
| Raimu | There's the "disable this" switch, already. | 01:33 |
| Raimu | Isn't there? | 01:33 |
| freemangordon | yep | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Raimu: yes, I suggested that | 01:33 |
| Raimu | I remember. | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but it's not meant to get used "dynamically" | 01:33 |
| freemangordon | well, actually you can enable/disable the workaround whenever you like. but I don't see much use of that | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and after all afaik there's no flag in ELF header about "I'm a thumb binary" | 01:34 |
| kerio | i see | 01:34 |
| kerio | if freemangordon actually delivers an omap1 with the errata workaround, should it be enabled by default, or disabled by default? | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | enabled of course | 01:35 |
| kerio | s/omap1/omap1, ABI-compatible with the stock kernel,/ | 01:35 |
| infobot | kerio meant: if freemangordon actually delivers an omap1, ABI-compatible with the stock kernel, with the errata workaround, should it be enabled by default, or disabled by default? | 01:35 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but slowdowns and stuff, for normal people! | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for the stock replacement "clean" kernel it probably should be disabled | 01:36 |
| freemangordon | kerio: benchmark that slowdown, if we have 1mS slowdown per context switch, how that affects "normal people" | 01:36 |
| kerio | freemangordon: idk, ask doc | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but generally if you want to bootup a thumb system you don't want to bother about the first few binaries to be ARM until you get around to enable the workaround | 01:37 |
| Raimu | The only reason not to disable it by default on clean kernel would be to pre-empt the "oh shit we released a thumb2 binary" hassle | 01:37 |
| freemangordon | ker: trust me, we had lots of discussions with doc ;) | 01:37 |
| freemangordon | kerio: ^^^ | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: 1ms / context switch? will bring system to a grinding halt! | 01:38 |
| freemangordon | for the last 8 or so months | 01:38 |
| kerio | i hope he meant 1µs | 01:38 |
| kerio | or something | 01:38 |
| freemangordon | why? we have HZ set to 128 | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: context switches are largely unrelated to HZ | 01:38 |
| freemangordon | and have in mind this does not kick in for IRQ/FIQ ;) | 01:39 |
| freemangordon | workaround is only for userland processes AIUI | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but for any function that runs into wait | 01:39 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well. I have NFC what is the impact, what I know is that it is not visible | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HZ is the *minimum* taskswitching frequency on a system with >=2 ready processes | 01:40 |
| freemangordon | ok, ok, it was a bad example | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I'm tending to agree | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never had any actual concerns about BPB flushing overhead | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the debate been about why we'd want to force it on *all* N900 users | 01:42 |
| freemangordon | Raimu: BTW I am uploading thumb microbengine in the repo, just gimme a couple of minutes to check if it works. Will have to do apt-get install microb-engine though, I just don;t have time to play with mp- thing now :) | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I mentioned to amiconn that there are valid reasons why some users might not want to have it | 01:42 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I would, we know there are thumb-compiled binaries distributed by Nokia | 01:42 |
| Raimu | freemangordon: Oh! Let me know when up. | 01:43 |
| freemangordon | ok | 01:43 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: there is at least one. And noone knows what is the actual amount of such mistakenly build binaries | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: yeah, if that gets verified it is the bummer of the year, regarding "Nokia fecked it up" | 01:44 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you can bet your ass on that | 01:45 |
| chem|st | hail I hit a BT bug | 01:45 |
| freemangordon | I bet mine too ;) | 01:45 |
| chem|st | after removing a client from list of devices my BT refuses to work | 01:45 |
| chem|st | blank name shown bluetoothd segfaulting etc | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd actually tend to claim THEN we either need to deliver ARM builds for all those POS, or actually ship kernel with thumb-fix | 01:46 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: :( | 01:46 |
| chem|st | exactly! | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi chem|st | 01:46 |
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| chem|st | tmo says flashing fixed it... <- don't like | 01:47 |
| chem|st | any other ideas? | 01:47 |
| chem|st | hi DocScrutinizer05 | 01:47 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: yeah, file a bug and wait merlin1991 to return from greece | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, I guess "reboot" wouldn't earn me a "thanks" ;-) | 01:47 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: you owe me a beer now... | 01:48 |
| chem|st | :) | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 01:48 |
| kerio | chem|st: restore your backupmenu backup | 01:48 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: also you may want to backup your /var/lib/bluetooth (so we can reproduce the bugger) and after that delete it | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait, what exactly went awry? | 01:48 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: lemme check the exact location | 01:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders reflashing BT firmware | 01:49 | |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: that was my last-resort idea | 01:49 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: yeah, delete everything under /var/lib/bluetooth | 01:49 |
| freemangordon | and then do: | 01:49 |
| freemangordon | stop bluetoothd | 01:50 |
| freemangordon | start bluetoothd | 01:50 |
| freemangordon | wait, first stop bluetoothd and then delete the directory | 01:50 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: ^^^ | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | better sequence | 01:51 |
| freemangordon | yeah, bluetoothd flushes the files when stopped | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd also mv instead rm | 01:51 |
| freemangordon | <freemangordon> chem|st: also you may want to backup your /var/lib/bluetooth | 01:51 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: :P | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: weird idea and probably nonsense: remove main battery | 01:52 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: that works for gsm modem and I tried that | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much :-S | 01:53 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: should I try to make it broke again when I have it working again? | 01:53 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: just try what i said, that should solve your segfaulting bluetoothd. though you will have to re-pair all of your devices | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd have thought bluetoothd "flashes" firmware (if any) on each powerup of BT chip | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: indeed | 01:54 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: yep, that is why I said to backup /var/lib/bluetooth, so we will be able to reproduce | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I bet you're right on that | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably one of the paired device files contains crap | 01:55 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: +1 | 01:56 |
| freemangordon | Raimu: your are good to apt-get update | 01:56 |
| freemangordon | apt-get install microb-engine microb-engine-common | 01:56 |
| freemangordon | hmm, or you may try with apt-get upgrade, not sure about dependencies | 01:57 |
| freemangordon | Raimu: ^^^ | 01:57 |
| kerio | freemangordon: won't that horrendously break metapackages that depend on exact versions? D: | 01:57 |
| freemangordon | no | 01:57 |
| kerio | k | 01:58 |
| kerio | wait, so why won't just "upgrade" work? | 01:58 |
| freemangordon | because I don't know what repos has he enabled | 01:58 |
| kerio | i see | 01:58 |
| freemangordon | not that Raimu ia a nood, but just in case | 01:58 |
| freemangordon | *noob | 01:58 |
| kerio | anyway, i'm waiting for Pali to push KP51 to -devel and then i'll probably try this thumb thingy | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia legacy: dependcies a maga pile of mess | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mega even | 01:59 |
| kerio | night, everyone | 01:59 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: sdptool browse did show some audio services while bt was not working | 02:00 |
| Raimu | Hehe. I'll manage. | 02:01 |
| chem|st | and for sure not the same as I see now when turned on^^ | 02:01 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: maybe it is not using bluetoothd at all, but kernel, i.e, socket stuff | 02:01 |
| chem|st | usually there is no sdptool browse output if device is off | 02:02 |
| chem|st | try yourself | 02:02 |
| freemangordon | Raimu: please tell me what apt-get reports for "xxx les bytes will be used" | 02:03 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: which device? | 02:03 |
| chem|st | bt | 02:03 |
| freemangordon | you mean to stop bluetoothd and to run discovery using sdptool? | 02:04 |
| chem|st | yes | 02:04 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: not now :) | 02:04 |
| chem|st | I had some weird stuff showing, like the output of line 10 to 20 (literaly) | 02:05 |
| chem|st | and not 1 to 40 | 02:05 |
| freemangordon | I was supposed to be in the bed by now ;) | 02:05 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: me too... | 02:05 |
| chem|st | as always | 02:05 |
| freemangordon | :D | 02:05 |
| freemangordon | cheers | 02:05 |
| chem|st | thanks for the var lib advice | 02:06 |
| freemangordon | did it help? | 02:06 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: ^^^ | 02:07 |
| freemangordon | Raimu: are you updating? As I am wating your feedback before making an announcement :) | 02:11 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: yeah worked | 02:13 |
| chem|st | seems like the profile got borked | 02:13 |
| freemangordon | :) | 02:14 |
| freemangordon | glad to hear | 02:15 |
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| Raimu | freemangordon: backupped, now installing microb-engine and *-common | 02:15 |
| Raimu | And a quick reboot... | 02:16 |
| Raimu | freemangordon: Yes, works. | 02:19 |
| Raimu | Way too quick to comment on usage, but everything runs. Announce away, I guess. | 02:19 |
| freemangordon | nice :) | 02:19 |
| freemangordon | how is the memory usage? | 02:19 |
| freemangordon | BTW: [01:57] <freemangordon> Raimu: please tell me what apt-get reports for "xxx les bytes will be used" | 02:20 |
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| Raimu | Oh, crap. I didn't see that line. Where's the apt log? | 02:22 |
| freemangordon | there is no :( | 02:23 |
| Raimu | I'm sorry. :( | 02:23 |
| freemangordon | NP | 02:23 |
| Raimu | Some other user has to fill you in on that one. | 02:23 |
| freemangordon | :) yeah | 02:26 |
| Raimu | Oh, this thing definitely isn't slower. | 02:40 |
| freemangordon | isn't slower? WTF man, it is FAST :P | 02:41 |
| Raimu | That's what I was saying. :D | 02:42 |
| freemangordon | :D | 02:42 |
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| * amiconn would be interested in browsermark results from thumb microb | 10:23 | |
| kerio | dammit Pali, hurry :( | 10:25 |
| Pali | kerio, hi | 10:25 |
| kerio | hi! | 10:26 |
| freemangordon | Raimu: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1235019&postcount=325 | 10:28 |
| kerio | Pali: where's my KP51 in -devel? :C | 10:29 |
| freemangordon | kerio: no KP51 for you :P | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: where's your report about testing KP51 from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1234313&postcount=445 | 10:50 |
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| chem|st | moo | 12:19 |
| chem|st | after I had my bt back last night I tried to pair it with my tv, no luck, with my desktop I only got filetransfer working | 12:20 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there isn't one | 14:07 |
| kerio | because KP51 is not in the repos! | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: we won't put it into any repo until you have tested it ;-P | 14:09 |
| kerio | :( | 14:09 |
| kerio | ok | 14:09 |
| kerio | i tested it | 14:09 |
| kerio | everything works | 14:09 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, see bq27x patch | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pling, another 10 credits off your jar | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: thanks | 14:10 |
| kerio | ten? D: | 14:10 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, you can add support for this sysfs entry to bq.sh script | 14:10 |
| kerio | anyway, is the kernel battery module better than bme? | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I'll look into it | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no | 14:11 |
| Pali | kerio, battery module only report some informations | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's nothing as awesome as bme on God's great earth | 14:12 |
| Pali | charger module is for charging | 14:12 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I do not agree! UEFI secure boot is better then any BME... | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 14:13 |
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| Pali | also TPM for UEFI is better then some aegis's TPM :D | 14:14 |
| kerio | Pali: is that information enough for advanced power monitor, though? | 14:15 |
| kerio | it doesn't necessarily use BME | 14:15 |
| Pali | kerio, no idea what is advanced ... | 14:16 |
| kerio | it's a better battery monitor, it can use different "sources" of information | 14:16 |
| kerio | it replaces the battery icon in the status area and in the status menu | 14:16 |
| Pali | but charger + battery module provides all informations except real battery tempereture and real battery capacity | 14:17 |
| Pali | if you calibrate battery chip then reported capacity will be usefull too | 14:18 |
| kerio | so, bme is not needed then? | 14:18 |
| kerio | neat | 14:18 |
| Pali | kerio, yes | 14:19 |
| Pali | I wrote needed kernel drivers | 14:19 |
| Pali | and freemangordon writing user space libs | 14:19 |
| kerio | and DocScrutinizer05 preventing you from adding that to cssu because some third party application could be relying on BME | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | STFU | 14:21 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: <3 | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're close to either an /ignore or a +q | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it really doesn't help your reputation to spread BS about me | 14:24 |
| kerio | joke's on you, i have no reputation | 14:25 |
| kerio | ...that made me sad | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you're too ignorant to understand what CSSU founders had in mind, and you don't get it this isn't tzhe leetness competition distro but a extremely conservative bugfix deployment channel, you're really pathetic | 14:26 |
| kerio | anyway, still mad about the estel thing? | 14:26 |
| kerio | (from the KP50 thread) | 14:26 |
| kerio | i doubt most people even got the reference | 14:29 |
| Lava_Croft | you're just ignorant! (c) Micheal Jackson | 14:30 |
| * Lava_Croft runs | 14:30 | |
| kerio | >micheal? | 14:30 |
| Lava_Croft | oh my a typo, im sorry aspell | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: nevertheless, it's a valid topic to think how we'd eventually deploy/offer the whole zoo of bq27x00.ko bq2415x.ko hlad-addon-bme_replacement.so, some tweaked initscripts and whatnot else | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to make this work we need to switch all at once | 14:37 |
| kerio | well, you have a repo, you can provide updated versions for all the packages that hold files that you're going to change | 14:37 |
| kerio | make each one depend by version on the other, so there can't be any mismatch | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that a proper set of dependencies wouldn't catch most potential headache, but we need to think about it | 14:38 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do you want to completely remove bme, or just to disable it? | 14:38 |
| kerio | s/just to/just/ | 14:39 |
| infobot | kerio meant: DocScrutinizer05: do you want to completely remove bme, or just disable it? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll never ever remove anything unless we need the storage space | 14:39 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, yes everything must be replaces at once. so I'm waiting for userspace libs | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: will this become an "app" in the end? in extras-devel? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or in CSSU-extras optional? | 14:40 |
| Pali | and init scripts - only bme must be deleted and everyting which depends (in upstart/init) must be fixed | 14:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: changing system files from another package is a Bad Idea™ | 14:40 |
| Pali | first it must work :D then we can start talking where will we put application :D | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: (initscripts) yes, I know | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: :-D | 14:41 |
| Pali | we have n900 qemu image, so we can remove bme first here | 14:41 |
| Pali | and if maemo image in qemu will work, then we can do it on real n900 too | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I guess some hal config needs tweaking too? | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or will we replace hald-addon-bme | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ß | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 14:42 |
| Pali | freemangordon, wrote hald-addon-bme which use bq kernel drivers | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is it meant to replace the original one, even same name and all? | 14:43 |
| Pali | and also wrote libbmeipc which is used by more maemo apps for battery temperature | 14:43 |
| Pali | replace original | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 14:43 |
| Pali | same name, same properties | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this means we need to ship it via cssu extras then | 14:43 |
| Pali | we can create one deb package which dpkg-divert all these binaries | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 14:44 |
| Pali | and package will unpack our open source | 14:44 |
| Pali | then it can go to extras (depends only on kernel-power or kernel-feature-***) | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 14:45 |
| Pali | but now in kp51 is /sys/ entry for speed of connected usb device, no need to dmesg | grep .... | 14:45 |
| Pali | I will write some status menu aplet for host mode | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, kernel-feature-*** ? :-)you forgot to define a proper feature for it? | 14:46 |
| Pali | kernel-feature-battery is for bq27x00_battery and kernel-feature-charger is for bq2415x_charger driver | 14:46 |
| kerio | it's kernel-feature-charger it hink | 14:46 |
| kerio | heh | 14:46 |
| Pali | already in kp51 | 14:46 |
| kerio | *think | 14:46 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, kp51 is prepaired for all | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: regarding this applet: I'd appreciate it was a generic applet via cmdline, so it can get invoked from h-e-n script. | 14:47 |
| Pali | yes, I'm thinging about aplet which will only call some shell script | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah this way round | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | an applet with buttton in menu | 14:48 |
| Pali | I want to switch it via xterm too :D | 14:48 |
| Pali | I think blueled already wrote some applet in python | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, there is some stuff I lost track of | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems it needs some consolidation and refactoring/update for h-e-n et al | 14:50 |
| Pali | do you have link? | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | putting your awesome work in kernel together with any applet, and speed autonegotiation and udev stuff | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, sorry | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no link | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I lost track of all the h-e-n related stuff last 9 months | 14:51 |
| kerio | ugh, my status menu is already full enough as it is :c | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: aiui it will *replace* the standard battery icon/button | 14:52 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: but it's already replaced, here D: | 14:53 |
| kerio | meh, i'll just remove advanced-power-monitor, it's kinda bad anyway | 14:53 |
| Pali | udev stuff? for what? | 14:53 |
| kerio | it's not really intuitive to add usb host mode to the battery icon, but i suppose that it makes sense | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: usual linux way to mount stuff | 14:53 |
| Pali | ke-recv working fine | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, load drivers for attached new devices | 14:54 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: oh, the reason there's a "enumerate" button in h-e-n? | 14:54 |
| Pali | loading usb drivers working too | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ke-recv maybe working fine for usual storage stuff | 14:54 |
| Pali | I'm using my rj45 <--> usb without any problem or loading any driver | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what about mouse(-pointer), keybd mapping for 104key | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | etc | 14:54 |
| Pali | udev will load it after detected | 14:54 |
| Pali | for keyboard is needed extkbd package which configure xinput (?) | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, a lot of stuff already working. Just saying it's another area where we need to consolidate into one nice package | 14:55 |
| Pali | one metapackage is enought | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 14:56 |
| Pali | I already created metapackage for ipv6 | 14:56 |
| Pali | yesterday pushed to extras-devel | 14:56 |
| Pali | now configure icd2, avahi-daemon, mdns, resolv.conf, microb and dhcp-wide ipv6 | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yay | 14:57 |
| Pali | from quim we got permission to push closed icd2 ipv6 library from diablo to extras-devel-non-free | 14:58 |
| Pali | diablo library working fine | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hail quim | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I idly ponder if he's part of jolla | 14:59 |
| Pali | searching for blueled script on tmo... | 15:01 |
| Pali | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1133260&postcount=929 | 15:04 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: for the looks of now I bet it is nokia's planB and they had to do it this way to not brake any windows contracts | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: I'm missing context | 15:09 |
| chem|st | jolla | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah | 15:09 |
| chem|st | winmo is down the pipe for ages now... they will never reach any sink ever again... | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and recent announcement that lumia never will run win8... killed Nokia winphone plans for good | 15:11 |
| chem|st | +1 | 15:13 |
| chem|st | bad marketing | 15:13 |
| Lava_Croft | jolla isnt plan b | 15:14 |
| Lava_Croft | plan b isnt plan b either | 15:14 |
| Lava_Croft | gotta love the grapevine when it comes to out of context quotes | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: (blueled script) I haven't looked into the script, but the fundamental crux of auto speed in hostmode is: you need to power down vbus *and wait for it to discharge under session-valid threshold, before you can switch speed | 15:15 |
| kerio | do you *need* vbus for usb to work properly? | 15:16 |
| kerio | even with a powered hub? | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:16 |
| Lava_Croft | i bet 99% of the people talking about plan b, havent even seen the interview in which a 'contingency plan' was mentioned | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | controller 1707 will detect VBUS and switch musb-core statemachine accordingly | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | without vbus no hostmode | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and *with* vbus no speed-switching | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why in h-e-n you *first* select speed, *then* enable vbus | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you need vbus to query speed of attached device | 15:19 |
| kerio | is there an actual difference between high/full/low speeds? can't you just go with high? | 15:19 |
| kerio | i mean, obviously there's a difference, but is there no backwards compatibility? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, as low speed devices don't know high/full | 15:20 |
| kerio | how would you connect a low-speed *and* a high-speed device through a hub, then? | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hub converts | 15:20 |
| kerio | great, so we just need to put a tiny 1-port high-speed usb hub in the HEN-branded usb host mode adapter we're going to sell :P | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would work, yes | 15:22 |
| kerio | how complicated would that be, actually? | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not much | 15:22 |
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| kerio | microusb plug to n900, microusb port for wallcharger, one or two usb A ports for devices | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 15:23 |
| kerio | can you charge in vbus mode? | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty convenient design | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically yes | 15:24 |
| kerio | in "fast" mode too? | 15:24 |
| kerio | or is it limited to .5A? | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since we need an own dedicated process(script) to manage the charging during hostmode anyway, we can charge as fast as it goes | 15:26 |
| kerio | the wallcharger provides 1.1A, right? | 15:26 |
| kerio | maybe .5 to n900 and .5 to usb device? | 15:26 |
| kerio | with one port | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 15:26 |
| kerio | does the n900 have to know how fast it's charging the battery? | 15:27 |
| kerio | because having it self-regulate would be neat, too | 15:27 |
| kerio | 1A if no usb device is drawing power, .5 with one and 0 with two | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need to set that in charger chip | 15:27 |
| kerio | i see | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | max_usb_current | 15:27 |
| kerio | is the .2A restriction something software-controlled? | 15:28 |
| kerio | i mean, can you pull the full 1.1A from the wallcharger *and* push .5 to the usb devices? | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's as much as N900 can deliver | 15:28 |
| kerio | i see | 15:28 |
| kerio | well, it's weird it *can* do that, isn't it | 15:29 |
| kerio | i mean, it's not supposed to do any of this | 15:29 |
| kerio | or was host/otg mode supposed to be in and then scrapped? | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, got scrapped late in development | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the 200mA boostmode are an inherent property of the bq24150 charger chip which doesn't need a single additional component, so it's unclear if they even planned to use that | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc they had the coice to delay rollout for yet another dozen of weeks, to get USBcert tests done which needed drivers etc that weren't ready. Or they binned USB-OTG and declared the N900 a non-OTG device, swapped micro-AB OTG receptacle for a micro-B peripheral-only type, and finally shipped it several weeks earlier | 15:44 |
| kerio | *dozen* of weeks? wtf | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, 3 months = 12 weeks | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it seems there's been a silicon erratum in TWL4030 regarding OTG in the early chips | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so Nokia had to bite the lemon and decide they don't know for sure if it will be feasible, or when | 15:50 |
| kerio | meh, they could've gotten fmg to write a software workaround for them >:) | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas the rework introduced some flaws then which massively spoiled 'natural' hostmode | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly the 1707 is missing a way/cmd to simulate ID grounding, and the pin to do that via hw been routed to GND instead of a GPIO of SoC | 15:53 |
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| kerio | ID grounding? | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pulling ID pin of USB jack to GND | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the flag that a A plug got plugged in and thus device should enter A-mode (aka hostmode) | 15:54 |
| kerio | i see | 15:54 |
| kerio | so that's why you have to enable it manually? | 15:54 |
| kerio | and isn't it strictly for usb otg? | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:55 |
| kerio | i mean, maybe they *couldn't* keep it sw-controlled | 15:55 |
| kerio | because of certifications | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, the whole friggin mentorgrafix musb-core is controlled that way | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | certifications rarely require something to *not* be there | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway they built the thing as if | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even with a proper OTG kernel and a special plug or receptacle to simulate A-mode ID pin it wouldn't work | 15:58 |
| kerio | shame | 15:58 |
| kerio | oh well, it's not a big deal to have to tap a button | 15:58 |
| MrPingu | oh that cert problem affects gmail too. | 16:05 |
| MrPingu | Well that's the risk of testing branch :P | 16:05 |
| kerio | cert problem? | 16:06 |
| MrPingu | https of google sites don't work with the newest thumb-compiled microb-engine ;) | 16:12 |
| kerio | but they don't work *quickly*, right? | 16:13 |
| kerio | fastest error messages ever | 16:13 |
| kerio | did fmg find the error yet? | 16:14 |
| MrPingu | See here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829&page=35 | 16:15 |
| MrPingu | Yes, it fails quickly | 16:15 |
| MrPingu | just as it looks, it starts loading it displays that error ;) | 16:17 |
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| luf | chem|st: ping | 23:20 |
| luf | ~seen chem|st | 23:21 |
| infobot | chem|st is currently on #maemo #harmattan #maemo-ssu. Has said a total of 46 messages. Is idling for 1h 51m 42s, last said: 'can someone explain?'. | 23:21 |
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