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Jaffa | Thanks to Tuxsavvy for fleshing out the wiki page. I've done a few edits and merged content back into the release announcement: http://www.ietherpad.com/k1A4SMLW7O | 11:30 |
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Jaffa | I think the latter may be good to go... Thoughts? | 11:30 |
psycho_oreos | :) | 11:30 |
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ZogG | Jaffa i insist to put qrcode on page =)) | 13:22 |
MohammadAG | so lemme get this straight | 13:56 |
MohammadAG | you want someone to open a PC, take out his N900, open the QR reader, read the barcode, open the link in microB which will open HAM | 13:57 |
MohammadAG | instead of opening the link on the N900 itself o_O | 13:57 |
merlin1991 | mircob sucks ;) | 14:07 |
merlin1991 | and I like the idea of ZogG, I often search for stuff on my laptop and then have todo that AGAIN on the phone to get it | 14:07 |
merlin1991 | it would be simply nice to just hold the phone to the screen to tell it I WANT THIS NOW :) | 14:08 |
ZogG | MohammadAG yes, a lot of times i search web on desctop for n900 stuff and than use QR code generator to open it on n900 | 14:09 |
ZogG | faster copy-paste with mouse than typing on n900 | 14:09 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, on your case you open microb - type page (that can be long in our case you don't get on wiki straight and need to wait to load other pages and to know where it is in documentation) and than click on it | 14:10 |
ZogG | on other hand you open lens you have launcher and you choose mbarcode or you do;t have launcher you just launch mbarcdode and one click it opens ham thru microb automagicly | 14:11 |
merlin1991 | I'm sure we could get a patch to mbarcode to leave out the microb step on .install files | 14:12 |
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MohammadAG | Jaffa, thoughts? I guess it can be added | 14:12 |
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Jaffa | I don't have a problem with it being added but a) it'd need a wiki page we can link to writing about "what are these QR code things" | 14:25 |
Jaffa | The easier option is to just set up bit.ly/cssu-testing and bit.ly/cssu which'll redirect to the .install files... | 14:25 |
Jaffa | Typing those is pretty easy, but this area isn't great on Maemo, I'd agree. | 14:26 |
Jaffa | The time taken to take a picture is so long though | 14:26 |
ZogG | merlin1991 we can, dev told he can do it, if we want =) | 14:31 |
ZogG | Jaffa you don';t take picture with mbrcode you just point it at picture and less than sec you have option to open link | 14:32 |
merlin1991 | I'd say we do then, it's defenitely a handy feature | 14:32 |
ZogG | Jaffa you just use qr code picture as clickable | 14:32 |
merlin1991 | and have the WTF IS THIS page linked :) | 14:32 |
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ZogG | and you mention the link above a code so person can choice so MohammadAG can go oldschool typing style =) | 14:33 |
MohammadAG | I'm not typing actually, I'm just using microB to browse to the install file :p | 14:33 |
ZogG | merlin1991 you just say, you can click on this pretty image or you can use mbarcode for automagical rederection (where mbarcode is link to wiki page for mbarcode) | 14:33 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, have a WTF is WTF page linked too :) | 14:33 |
ZogG | MohammadAG did you sday? your mircob just knows how to redirect you to install itself? do you use libastral? | 14:34 |
ZogG | let's invite mbarcode dev here | 14:35 |
MohammadAG | no, I browse tmo on microB | 14:35 |
MohammadAG | lardman? sure | 14:35 |
MohammadAG | but this isn't really a priority :p | 14:36 |
merlin1991 | ZogG I would put 2 things on the page, the oldschool install icon with the .install linked on it, and the barcode wich links to a what is this weird picture all about page | 14:36 |
ZogG | merlin1991 i think you should say or use mbarcode on your phone for this [pic] where mbarcode is link for mbarcode wiki | 14:37 |
ZogG | let's ask lardman | 14:37 |
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ZogG | lardman \o/ | 14:37 |
lardman | hi chaps | 14:38 |
lardman | no, I can look at the log if you want | 14:38 |
lardman | doh, wrong window | 14:39 |
ZogG | too late | 14:40 |
ZogG | you should answer at pm =) | 14:40 |
ZogG | sorry man | 14:40 |
ZogG | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ =))) | 14:40 |
ZogG | lardman, do you want to make wiki of mbarcode or you want someone esle to do it and can you do the plugin for HAM or fapman ? | 14:40 |
* lardman reads the log about using mBarcode to install files | 14:40 | |
ZogG | i'm gotta go now =( | 14:40 |
lardman | ok ZogG, thanks for the heads up | 14:40 |
lardman | ZogG: there;s already a wiki page for mBarcode, or do you mean specifically for installing HAM stuff? | 14:41 |
ZogG | i just use your awesome app a lot and it's very fast actually it captures barcode really fast | 14:41 |
ZogG | lardman, if we have wiki it's even better | 14:41 |
ZogG | Jaffa, ^ | 14:41 |
lardman | as someone said, I can also remove the requirement to open microb to grab the install file, or we can choose a custom identifier, I'm easy | 14:41 |
ZogG | http://wiki.maemo.org/MBarcode nice - but it misses one main thing | 14:42 |
ZogG | usage, maybe even youtube video for noobies would be nice or some shots | 14:42 |
ZogG | pics i mean | 14:43 |
lardman | ZogG: yes, it's work in progress, but feel free to add to it | 14:43 |
lardman | I can add a section there describing what will happen if you point it at an "install file" QR code, no problem | 14:44 |
ZogG | lardman i think you should make something less specific. Just something like USAGE 1) urls 2) contcts exchange 3) something else | 14:45 |
lardman | ZogG: yeah, well I thought I'd stick sections about vCard, iCal, etc, etc, and one of those sections would be "install files" | 14:45 |
MohammadAG | ZogG, fapman is out of the question | 14:45 |
lardman | something like that anyway | 14:46 |
ZogG | MohammadAG why? | 14:46 |
ZogG | lardman if you add somwething like instal:// can you add in option "open with..." and than fapman or ham where ham is default? i know i ask too much | 14:47 |
lardman | no, that is quite doable | 14:47 |
lardman | what is not ideal though is encoding the entire install file in the QR code, as the codes are then very big | 14:47 |
lardman | though it does work, and the code is in SVN to support that | 14:47 |
lardman | Android do something similar with a market:// url | 14:48 |
lardman | and just the name of the app after the :// | 14:48 |
RST38h | Discussing android-styled installation-by-qrcode? | 14:48 |
merlin1991 | yes | 14:49 |
MohammadAG | QDesktopServices to open the file lardman | 14:49 |
MohammadAG | nothing more | 14:49 |
MohammadAG | we need HAM's update style | 14:49 |
lardman | depends whether it's a file | 14:49 |
merlin1991 | whatabout filtering urls for http://repository.maemo.org/.+\.install and then pushing that info to ham (sry I dunno what microb does exactly to the .install files)? | 14:49 |
MohammadAG | .installs are files | 14:49 |
ZogG | lardman we can use it like that -> if it's link we can make url shorter for this so qr code would small and not complicated, or it can be app://repo|app_name | 14:49 |
MohammadAG | it just opens the .install using the default handler | 14:49 |
MohammadAG | skips the open/save dialog | 14:50 |
MohammadAG | that's it | 14:50 |
lardman | microb just invokes the default mime handler for the file | 14:50 |
MohammadAG | and that's basically what should be done | 14:50 |
lardman | bbiam, meeting | 14:50 |
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merlin1991 | ZogG I never played with qr barcodes, but how big would the image of a link like http://wiki.maemo.org/images/e/e3/ClickToInstall.png be? | 14:51 |
merlin1991 | err | 14:51 |
merlin1991 | http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing-fremantle.install | 14:51 |
merlin1991 | :D | 14:51 |
lardman|afk | http://qrcode.kaywa.com/ | 14:51 |
lardman|afk | paste it and see | 14:51 |
ZogG | merlin1991 it would be big enuf but we would use tinurl or goo.gl/blahbla | 14:52 |
ZogG | anyway | 14:52 |
MohammadAG | that's double redirection :P | 14:52 |
ZogG | http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=5&d=http%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fqjy2Q | 14:53 |
ZogG | this is after shorter | 14:53 |
ZogG | withut it http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=5&d=http%3A%2F%2Frepository.maemo.org%2Fcommunity-testing%2Fcommunity-testing-fremantle.install | 14:53 |
MohammadAG | second one looks sexier | 14:54 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, but as we said we can make for repo install files specific plugin so it would only need community-testing | 14:54 |
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merlin1991 | well we can assume that repository.maemo.org won't change name | 14:55 |
ZogG | for example repo:// would make http://repository.maemo.org/$repo_name$/$repo_name$.install | 14:55 |
ZogG | than it would be really small | 14:56 |
ZogG | http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=5&d=repo%3A%2F%2Fcommunity-testing - for repo://community-testing | 14:56 |
merlin1991 | --> have mbarcode tranlsate app:// (or whatever we wan't here) to http://repository.maemo.org/ so you just have repo + package | 14:57 |
merlin1991 | http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=5&d=app%3A%2F%2Fcommunity-testing%2Fcommunity-testing-fremantle.install | 14:57 |
ZogG | merlin1991 i think we should have two separete plugins for repos and apps | 14:58 |
ZogG | or even it can be the same | 14:58 |
ZogG | just app://reponame/appname | 14:59 |
MohammadAG | I still don't understand the point of all this btw :p | 14:59 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, it's just easier | 14:59 |
MohammadAG | if the barcode has *.install in it | 14:59 |
ZogG | i assume maemo to have more apps | 14:59 |
MohammadAG | dl the file | 14:59 |
MohammadAG | open it | 14:59 |
ZogG | MohammadAG i suggested as well to have mbarcode to open install files for apps | 15:00 |
MohammadAG | ok | 15:00 |
MohammadAG | my point stands | 15:00 |
merlin1991 | it's all about using a huge screen to browse for 1337 appz and just point your phone to the screen to install them instead of manually typing the .install url or having to wait for ham to init the app list | 15:00 |
MohammadAG | download file, open it | 15:00 |
ZogG | so when you announce your new qtmediaplayer you use qrcode and not usrl | 15:00 |
merlin1991 | and download file, open it isn't that easy on win | 15:01 |
MohammadAG | I'm not using either | 15:01 |
merlin1991 | it's not fun at all to move file to phone and open on phone under win | 15:01 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, | 15:01 |
MohammadAG | .install files opening in HAM refreshes the list | 15:02 |
ZogG | MohammadAG ok i found app in extras it's awesome_app it would be easier to open ham to wait for loading to go to search to find it to click and wait reloading or just open mbarcode and than it does it automagicly | 15:02 |
MohammadAG | this is a slower implementation, we've seen how the ovi store compares | 15:02 |
MohammadAG | I'd understand this'd work for symbian | 15:02 |
MohammadAG | but maemo has repos | 15:02 |
ZogG | ovi store sucks, maybe than they would integrate as well, i like browsing stuff on desctop | 15:02 |
MohammadAG | just fire up an app manager and search for the awesome app name you found | 15:03 |
merlin1991 | MohammadAG, what's the time ratio of opening mime handler for .install vs fireing up ham and finding the app you want and installing? | 15:03 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, 10:1 I'd say | 15:03 |
ZogG | MohammadAG takes too much actions and time | 15:03 |
MohammadAG | the more the repos you have the worse it gets | 15:03 |
merlin1991 | 10 in the .install or the ham side? | 15:03 |
ZogG | ham | 15:03 |
MohammadAG | opening a .install file refreshes all repositories | 15:03 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, opening ham and searching do the same =) | 15:04 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, and opening deb? | 15:04 |
merlin1991 | well we know what we need then | 15:04 |
merlin1991 | mbarcode --> apt-get install | 15:04 |
ZogG | we can make mbarcode to wget it and open it localy on phone | 15:04 |
MohammadAG | so you're turning mbarcode into an application manager | 15:05 |
MohammadAG | ZogG, that kills the whole concept of a repository | 15:05 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, nope just plugin | 15:05 |
MohammadAG | riiight | 15:05 |
ZogG | anyway you have choice so i prefer this and you that | 15:06 |
ZogG | it's all about opensource and choice isn't it? | 15:06 |
MohammadAG | this isn't actually a choice | 15:06 |
ZogG | why not, you can always paste link near | 15:06 |
MohammadAG | downloading a deb through mbarcode is NOT sane | 15:06 |
ZogG | it works fine in android and i liked it | 15:06 |
merlin1991 | MohammadAG, what do you think of having mbarcode go to apt-get install, as a shortcut for installing apps? assuming you browse on your pc and not on the phone | 15:06 |
MohammadAG | android doesn't use apt or debs | 15:06 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, ok no downloading but previous option | 15:06 |
MohammadAG | I'm all for mbarcode downloading the .install, opening it in HAM and discarding it | 15:07 |
ZogG | is HAM closed? | 15:07 |
MohammadAG | no | 15:07 |
ZogG | so why wouldn't we change the repo reloading thing? | 15:07 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, just try using mbarcode once you would understand | 15:08 |
merlin1991 | because that has an idea behind | 15:08 |
merlin1991 | what if you try to .install a new app | 15:08 |
merlin1991 | and your repos are out of date | 15:08 |
ZogG | right =) | 15:08 |
merlin1991 | it's the it always works approach | 15:08 |
MohammadAG | I use mbarcode | 15:08 |
ZogG | no you don't | 15:08 |
MohammadAG | ... | 15:08 |
ZogG | you just want me to feel bad | 15:08 |
merlin1991 | "I'm all for mbarcode downloading the .install, opening it in HAM and discarding it" that was our inital proposal before we went crazy :D | 15:08 |
MohammadAG | yes | 15:09 |
ZogG | let's start with it and than move to app integration | 15:09 |
MohammadAG | and for the SSU, I DON'T want fapman doing anything | 15:09 |
ZogG | as i understand HAM would reload repo's if you open with mbarcode or not - so mbarcode wins by default =) | 15:09 |
MohammadAG | no | 15:10 |
MohammadAG | HAM does not update lists when you open it | 15:10 |
MohammadAG | it takes its time to parse them | 15:10 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, i think it would be nice to have option which app would handle it ( but sure to leave HAM by default) | 15:10 |
MohammadAG | no ZogG | 15:10 |
MohammadAG | fapman lacks things for an SSU | 15:10 |
MohammadAG | it doesn't process flags such as system-update and reboot | 15:11 |
MohammadAG | it doesn't set UBIFS compression | 15:11 |
merlin1991 | does ham take forever to parse the lists when you go to the download window, or what takes it so long unitll you get the app list? | 15:11 |
ZogG | MohammadAG, so if i want to install new app just added to repo, how do i find it if it's not updated? | 15:11 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, parsing | 15:11 |
ZogG | it's the same as i see it | 15:11 |
MohammadAG | ... | 15:11 |
MohammadAG | if you open a .install file, it updates lists and parses items | 15:12 |
merlin1991 | wtf | 15:12 |
ZogG | yes | 15:12 |
MohammadAG | if you open HAM, it just parses the lists | 15:12 |
MohammadAG | you're doubling if not trippling install time | 15:12 |
MohammadAG | clicking a .install for each app is retarded | 15:12 |
MohammadAG | and that's why ovi is retarded | 15:12 |
ZogG | but not everyone add apps to repo | 15:13 |
MohammadAG | it literally takes 5 minutes to install a 100kb app from ovi store | 15:13 |
MohammadAG | that's their fault! | 15:13 |
merlin1991 | I understand that ham updates lists when opening .install, but why on earth would it parse when it should just install an app? | 15:13 |
ZogG | and i still can't get it, how it can be different if you say where app is and if you search for app | 15:13 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, package domains and such | 15:13 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, so you don't replace system packages | 15:14 |
merlin1991 | ham should have a dbus interface to get it install an app | 15:14 |
merlin1991 | hm, why doesn't ham cache the parsed information, I mean untill you update the lists that information should remane valid? | 15:16 |
merlin1991 | s/remane/remain | 15:16 |
MohammadAG | HAM's not optimized to do that | 15:16 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, try HAM on a PC | 15:16 |
MohammadAG | it's quite awesome | 15:16 |
MohammadAG | I think it expects a faster CPU | 15:17 |
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lardman | re | 15:17 |
merlin1991 | MohammadAG, does that mean you can replace a system packages by invoking apt-install with a replacement? | 15:19 |
merlin1991 | err | 15:19 |
merlin1991 | apt-get install | 15:19 |
MohammadAG | without a metapackage holding them, yes | 15:19 |
lardman | hmm, lots of backlog | 15:19 |
MohammadAG | i'll try to sum it all up lardman | 15:19 |
lardman | fundamentally I would also find it easier to look download apps by taking image of barcode, then leaving phone to do its thing | 15:20 |
MohammadAG | 1- suggestion to handle .install files and open them in HAM | 15:20 |
MohammadAG | then you left | 15:20 |
MohammadAG | 2- make mbarcode handle installations with apt-get | 15:20 |
lardman | I can read it, don't worry | 15:20 |
merlin1991 | hm that leads to a follow up quesiton, aren't the system packages all holded by a metapackage? | 15:20 |
MohammadAG | merlin1991, you're in #maemo-ssu, that assumption is broken | 15:21 |
merlin1991 | true :/ | 15:21 |
merlin1991 | so mbarcode -> apt-get would be nice and fast if we stay with pr1.3, damn it | 15:21 |
MohammadAG | and the apps that are not in the repos should move into the repos | 15:22 |
MohammadAG | however | 15:23 |
lardman | My position is this: I don't use the N900 for browsing if I have a PC in front of me; in that case, if I see a new super app that I'd like to install, whether it be in a new repo or one of the existing ones, it would be easier for me to be able to point the N900 at something and get it to arse about with connecting, updating, downloading without further input from me. This is where mBarcode would work for me | 15:23 |
MohammadAG | anyway, doesn't this all require some structuring at maemo.org? | 15:24 |
lardman | what it downloads is immaterial, but obviously should not be the .deb, better would be to either download an .install, or generate one on the fly from the data in the uri, or to invoke apt-get (perhaps) | 15:24 |
MohammadAG | hmm | 15:24 |
MohammadAG | if this is for maemo.org | 15:24 |
MohammadAG | I think the qr code can hold a .install, or a package name | 15:25 |
lardman | yes it would, but the barcode payload has to be ironed out | 15:25 |
lardman | and the code added to mBarcode so it works for testing, etc | 15:25 |
MohammadAG | if package name is found, run one of both UIs to install the package | 15:25 |
lardman | when you say .install, you mean url to the file, or the contents of the file? | 15:25 |
MohammadAG | the url | 15:25 |
MohammadAG | the way i understand it, android doesn't use something similar to apt-get | 15:26 |
MohammadAG | so getting the ipk is enough | 15:26 |
lardman | it just opens the Market app on the right page I think | 15:26 |
lardman | I've not tested it tbh | 15:26 |
MohammadAG | there are apps that aren't in the market afaik | 15:27 |
lardman | if we had a decent app manager with reviews and descriptions, etc., that would make sense | 15:27 |
MohammadAG | fapman can be used there | 15:27 |
MohammadAG | (but again, I don't want it for the ssu) | 15:28 |
MohammadAG | basically | 15:28 |
MohammadAG | replace fapman's review dialog with a window | 15:28 |
MohammadAG | the fetches rating, description, screenshot if available | 15:28 |
MohammadAG | cydia on the iPhone's like that | 15:28 |
lardman | yes that would be useful | 15:29 |
MohammadAG | then have some dbus interface | 15:30 |
MohammadAG | so you'd pass package name | 15:30 |
merlin1991 | hm I personally would pass the package name from mbarcode to apt-get, but I guess that's a bit risky with the average user | 15:37 |
lardman | that would prevent integration if a better version of HAM is ever created | 15:45 |
lardman | I'd be tempted to just pass the required data to whichever app is the mime preference and let it handle it as it sees fit | 15:45 |
lardman | the question is then what should that data be | 15:45 |
Jaffa | lardman++ | 15:50 |
Jaffa | It's not mBarcode's job to provide OCS integration | 15:50 |
Jaffa | It should take $DATA and launch the MIME handler for .install files. | 15:50 |
Jaffa | If we want to use this for the SSU then the question of what $DATA is is moot. It *has* to be the URL to a .install file. | 15:55 |
Jaffa | Preferably a bit.lyed one or something | 15:55 |
lardman | or sufficient data for mBarcode to be able to generate a local .install file | 15:56 |
Jaffa | (The SSU .install file adds a new repo, so app://foo works for the general case of maemo.org/downloads and /packages/, but not for the SSU installer) | 15:56 |
Jaffa | lardman: Indeed. But for the CSSU .install file, that's *always* going to be longer than the .install URL | 15:56 |
lardman | yes, but you can add some logic to the plugin in mBarcode, so it can handle most things with just a hint | 15:57 |
Jaffa | lardman: Yes, agreed. An apt://<packagename> would be sufficient for that | 15:57 |
Jaffa | And then the QRCodes can be auto-generated on maemo.org/downloads/ | 15:57 |
lardman | though not necessarily apt, is .install a standard? | 15:58 |
Jaffa | Acutally, proposed format: apt://[<repo-name>]/<package> | 15:58 |
Jaffa | lardman: Only on Maemo | 15:58 |
lardman | also spawning apt-get will bypass HAM or any other app manager which might want to present the user with more info about the package | 15:58 |
Jaffa | lardman: I was suggesting "apt" as the scheme, not that apt-get was launched | 15:58 |
lardman | though I guess that could be handled in the plugin, generate an install file anyway, etc | 15:58 |
lardman | sure | 15:58 |
Jaffa | lardman: "pkg" would be fine | 15:59 |
Jaffa | lardman: Bah, version of mbarcode in -testing is a lot older than the one in -devel. | 16:01 |
lardman | yes | 16:02 |
Jaffa | lardman: Are you going to make me enable -devel? <grumble> | 16:02 |
lardman | no, afaiu Dragly was pushing the current version though | 16:02 |
lardman | am lacking an N900 atm, so have not had a chance to push it up | 16:02 |
Jaffa | Not happened yet :-( | 16:02 |
Jaffa | http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/ | 16:02 |
lardman | in which case, yes sorry -devel it is | 16:02 |
Jaffa | psycho_oreos: Did you ever get to the bottom of your issue with hildon-desktop? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=928040#post928040 sounds similar | 16:05 |
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psycho_oreos | Jaffa, no, I guess I might as well look at it again now. In my case I have PR1.3 with stock maemo kernel. I do use some of matan's modified packages but I guess I should probably have a look from another perspective on getting the hildon-desktop to install | 16:20 |
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psycho_oreos | lol I'm such an ass, MohammadAG you were right, Jaffa thanks but the problem was solved | 17:25 |
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MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, hmm? | 18:03 |
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* lardman off home, cu all later | 19:31 | |
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