IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2016-06-14

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pichloGood evening everyone!21:33
reinobhi pichlo!21:34
Win7Machello! :)21:34
pichloPlease forgive me if I suddenly disappear. I am living on the edge: typing this on a Jolla with 34% battery left.21:35
reinob34% should be enough for everyone.. err..for everything :)21:35
pichloDouble edge, you can say :)21:35
pichloreinob, when did you last use a Jolla? ;)21:36
pichloSo, what's the topic for today?21:37
eekkelundHello :)21:37
pichloHi eekkelund, hi Wn7Mac, hi reinob21:38
Win7Machi eekkelund :)21:38
pichloI finally got around writing to techstaff re the topics we discussed the past few meetings. Tor, https,  garage spam and bitcoin. No reply yet. Hardly surprising as I only did it today.21:41
eekkelundHellohello:) So after bumping TMO thread and posting to telegram Jolla fanclub group, 3 new ppl voted to poll. And one was my friend. Still I could make post to TJC and my GF could make post in russian to VK maemo&sailfish groups :)21:41
eekkelundOk good thanks pichlo :) I am still writing last meeting minutes...21:42
Win7Macthanks both!21:43
pichloYou are much faster than me. I had it on my slate for nearly a monrh :(21:43
Win7Macbitcoin is no topic for zechstaff though, board should take care of that21:43
Win7Mac*techstaff21:44
reinobthanks a lot pichlo. I wrote I reminder to myself in ##maemo-admin channel21:44
pichloYeah, I made it clear it was only a feasibility query21:44
pichloadmin channel?21:45
pichloso much to learn, so little time! ;)21:45
reinobyup, that's where techstaff are usually available. only people with council cloak have access21:45
reinobtry it: /join ##maemo-admin21:45
pichloThanks rainob, joined21:47
eekkelundJoined also :)21:47
Win7Macme too, but no techstaff...21:48
pichloSo what happens after the next election when I am no longer in the Council? Will I be kicked out?21:49
reinobdunno, probably, if you lose the cloak..21:49
pichloSounds fair and square.21:50
pichloPardon me for a few mins, family business.21:51
eekkelundSo what do you think are we going to organize CC if there will be less than 20 actual participants and 20 undeiceded+helpers ?:)21:55
pichlothat's why I keep saying that one category is plenty21:56
reinobI'd rather not answer to that. I have a pessimistic day. And Austria lost..21:56
Win7Macsorry to hear21:57
pichloreinob, aren't you supposed to support Spain?21:57
eekkelund://21:57
reinobbut hey, Spain (which is *my* country) did kick ass21:57
reinobwife's Austrian21:57
pichloIC21:58
reinobyou don't happen to be from CZ? I think I'd seen that somewhere21:58
eekkelundwhat about others, what do you think about only one category?21:58
reinob(if so, sorry :)21:58
eekkelundFinland will never make to EURO cup21:59
eekkelund:D21:59
reinobthey're just too cool for such things22:00
pichloMe, reinob? Close enough: SK. My wife is from UA. We live in GB. Similar to your circumstances.22:00
pichloSK lost to Wales. The ultimate underdog. Good job I can't be arsed about football.22:01
eekkelundGo Iceland! :)22:01
reinob:)))22:01
Win7Macgood I'm german, WC will make it! ;)22:02
Win7Mac*World Champion22:02
pichloWeren't you the champions the last time?22:03
M4rtinKwould not a single category complicate matters for improvements to existing apps vs brand new apps ?22:03
M4rtinKthat would be my main worry22:03
reinobI don't actually care about football. But world/euro cup are big enough to spark my interest. And I've been told I should work on my "national pride" (whatever the fuck that may be :), so I even have a red t-shirt :)22:03
M4rtinKif both should be accommodated22:03
pichloM4rtinK, fair enough.OK, two.22:04
Win7Mac"national pride" is a difficult topic...22:04
Win7MacM4rtinK, thanks for your input!22:04
reinobexiting vs new sounds and is reasonable. further categorization may be an issue because of the low quantity of apps/candidates22:04
M4rtinKnp :)22:04
pichloreinob, +122:05
reinobWin7Mac: in Spain it would be unthinkable to show a Spanish flag around (we still have two Spains). The Germans show them everywhere.22:05
M4rtinKI think that especially for Maemo improving/fixing existing apps is very important22:05
M4rtinKmaybe someone might even adopt an orphaned application, etc ?22:06
Win7MacM4rtinK, +122:06
M4rtinKthe power of open source :)22:06
pichloM4rtinK, "appa" or "packages"?22:06
pichlo"apps"22:06
reinobapp = package22:07
M4rtinKthat's a good question22:07
pichloNot from my POV22:07
reinobor app = one or more packages, but anyway, what's your point?22:07
Win7Macdoes it really matter?22:07
M4rtinKwhat if someone ports Qt 5 or improves something else that's not really an app22:07
pichlosome esoteric system package is not necessarily an app22:07
M4rtinKI guess people voting can decide if they like it or not22:07
reinobOK to me app = program and whether GUI-app or kernel module, a program is a program is a ..22:08
pichloyeah, I guess22:08
pichlohow about icon or language packs?22:09
Win7Macwhatever improvement should be promoted22:09
M4rtinKWin7Mac: +122:09
Win7Macpichlo, that's a bit low to me22:09
M4rtinKWin7Mac: I don't think we should be picky22:10
pichloI know, I was challenging reinob22:10
reinobpichlo: now you're talking. Tough question. More art than program (and I'm a patent examiner, I have to split these two and more every day..)22:10
Win7Macha... :)22:10
pichlo:)22:10
Win7MacM4rtinK, right22:11
pichloM4rtinK, +122:11
pichloWe cannot afford being picky.22:11
eekkelundThanks M4rtinK :) What about somebody makes port os maemo to some Android phone? (very unlikely but is it app or fixing?Or one cannot compete with that?)22:11
M4rtinKeekkelund: what a nice edge case :)22:12
pichloI would worry about that when it happens ;)22:12
reinobI'd say, we interpret "app" (or whatever term we choose) very broadly. In the end, the one with more votes gets to win and the voters decide whether something is worth or not22:12
M4rtinKI would say its an improvement of existing app/software/state of art22:13
M4rtinKpichlo: +1 reinob: +122:13
eekkelundAnd I liked that Beginner (first release) because I would have tried to make something there. I would have been not brave enough to compete against for example M4rtinK :D22:13
pichlogood point22:13
pichloI have an app in makung since 2014 ;)22:14
M4rtinKeekkelund: such an honor :D22:14
reinobwould beginner be a subgroup of "new app" or also of "existing app". if former (makes sense), then we'd have three { existing, new beginner, new experienced }22:14
pichlosounds good22:14
eekkelundWishlist? :) Or is it not part of 'competetion' but related somehow?:)22:14
reinobpichlo: we need to define "beginner" (if required). even if you started in 2004 unless and until you publish it it counts as beginner22:14
reinobOK?22:15
Win7Maclook at last competitions22:15
Win7Macin the wiki22:15
Win7Macand possibly ask the organizers22:16
pichloeekkelund, I thing a wishlist could be a deciding factor for the voters but I don't think it should be a category22:16
Win7Macabout their experience22:16
Win7Macwhishlist implies later fullfillmet i guess22:17
Win7Macnot within timeframe of regular CC22:17
Win7Macor?22:17
pichloreinob, my definition of "beginer" is "competitor's first app/package"22:18
Win7Mac+122:18
reinob+122:18
eekkelundI think if there is 'huge' demand for something in wishlist council could help with prizes somehow?:)22:18
eekkelundBut maybe then not in timeframe of CC22:19
reinobgotta go. will be back in 10-15 min22:20
M4rtinK:w22:20
M4rtinKhmm22:20
M4rtinKthis not vim! ;-)22:20
Win7Maceekkelund, my idea is to really get the right devices into the right (in demand) hands of devs22:21
Win7Macdifferent people work on different platforms and need different devices22:22
Win7Macalso to port things22:23
eekkelundTrue22:23
Win7Macthe crux is: how are they supposed to work on a platform they have no device for?22:23
Win7Macunless there's a working SDK22:24
Win7MacI'm no dev at all, is that reasonable to you guys?22:24
pichloThat is exactly my worry. Devs focusing on system packages, kernel modules, ports etc and we end up exactly where we are now: a useless platform with no apps :(22:25
eekkelundOne idea for devs: make SDK !:D22:25
Win7Macpichlo, not nescessarily, why so pessimistic?22:25
Win7Maceekkelund, good one!22:26
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pichloWin7Mac, because that is the current situation.22:26
Win7Mactrue too22:27
Win7Macmaybe, idk22:27
pichloJust look at what is available for Sailfish, 2 1/2 years after the release.22:27
Win7Macidk too22:27
pichloI blame QML22:28
Win7Machaven't used it so far, but will SOON (TM)22:28
Win7Mac;)22:28
reinobtake the example of whatsapp: there will never be a stable (let alone official) version for fremantle or for sailfish. this will keep a lot of people away from these platforms. in the end only good old low-level hackers will enjoy using it.22:28
Win7Macpichlo, reinob, what's your conclusion then?22:29
reinobIFF we had a working modern firefox or chromium then we could start talking. but with 256MB RAM it's a hopeless case22:29
pichlothree categories22:29
eekkelundWin7Mac, nemo guys have been talking about sdk :)22:29
pichlonew app, fix, beginner22:29
reinobthat the "current situation" will not change (significantly). So system packages are fine for the CC22:30
pichlobeginner = wild card22:30
pichlocan choose new app or fix22:30
pichloas long as it is his/het first contribution22:31
pichloher22:31
Win7Macok to me22:31
pichlogotta go again22:35
pichlosee you in 30-ish min22:36
pichloif not, I will catch up in the log22:36
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eekkelundNew app = new apps,new ports,new anything. fix= fixes,updates,maintaining,backport,open closed packages,bugs. beginner = just first contribution. and then this wishlist, not part of CC or?22:37
eekkelundbtw this should be updated http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council :D22:37
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Win7Maceekkelund, wishlist as part of CC, just contribution, decission and reward later22:54
eekkelundYeah sounds good :)22:57
Win7Macha, goal for Island!23:06
Win7Macand what a nice one23:06
chem|stsry folks, just got home23:07
chem|stread Win7Mac email about GA invitation and the other stuff23:07
chem|stWin7Mac: use that email I sent to you in reply please, I am overloaded till at least sunday night23:08
chem|stpichlo is gone already...23:08
chem|stI will find a legal disclaimer for donations made in BTC and make BTC available23:08
Win7Macchem|st, I didn't grasp what you were trying to tell me. No need to explain to me, what exactly you want, simply edit the few lines to your liking23:10
chem|sthttps everywhere... we are in the process to get NPOed, maybe globalsign will then hand us a wildcard cert for free, we will see, I am a CaCert assurer, maybe we should go the open source way and make use of CaCert instead?23:10
Win7Macre bitcoin + https: GOOD!23:11
chem|stWin7Mac: will have a look if I can squeeze it in tomorrow, my Wed isn't like nine to five this week, more like eight to eight23:11
reinobhow about letsencrypt?23:11
chem|st8:30 first appointment23:11
reinobyou can get as many certs as you want (xxx.maemo.org) and it works quite nicely23:12
chem|streinob: currently warfare pays for all certs out of his pocket, I am not really ok with it as we have the funds but ok, never say nay to someone handing over something for free23:12
chem|streinob: the problem is that you need to use certs recognized by any dumb system23:13
chem|ststandard signing authorities23:13
reinobletencrypt is trusted out-of-the-box by everything23:14
chem|steven cacert did not make it into standards yet and that is as close as it gets23:14
Win7Macthat's a nice move from warefare, but we want to do it officially ourselves I guess23:14
chem|streinob: then there is a catch if it is for free23:14
reinobgoogle it. it's big companies (google, cisco, mozilla, etc.) "for the common good" so to speak.23:15
chem|stWin7Mac: nah, but we could get a wildcard for free with globalsign if we apply for NPO, wildcards are the shit for something we have but they are expensive23:15
Win7Macif globalsign has an easy way for NPOs, that sounds great23:15
reinobthat's OK as well23:15
reinobI wouldn't want to have to pay lots of cash for a wildcard certificate, but if we get it for free then perfect23:15
Win7Mac+123:16
chem|streinob: certs for free wildly recognized, who would use something else?23:16
reinobBTW ask warfare if he wants some refund. he shouldn't be paying for this23:16
Win7Macright23:16
chem|streinob: that is all discussed23:16
reinobOK23:16
chem|sttoo much of a hassle for him to get reimbursed23:17
reinobcan we check if all links in maemo.org don't have http or https hard-coded?23:17
chem|stI can understand, I barely hand my stuff to juiceme23:17
reinobor would you do redirect always http->https no-matter-what?23:17
chem|stit is mostly not much23:17
chem|stand if you got std income not an issue at all23:18
eekkelundWow, thanks chem|st :)23:18
chem|steekkelund: don't thank me yet, I charge the trips to court by the hour ;)23:19
reinobwalking is very healthy :)23:20
eekkelundHahahha, then I thank warfare now and maybe later again you.:)23:21
reinobwhat about tor? is this being blocked by the firewall or by the web server?23:22
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eekkelundWell, seems like people have went to sleep or to watch football. Meeting ended? reinob, I assume your question was to chem|st?:)23:36
chem|streinob: both iirc, some nodes do not get to the server, if you hit that page does not allow you in page it is the server (ask xes about that)23:37
eekkelundGood night :)23:48
eekkelundAnd thanks!!23:48
Win7Macthanks + gnite everybody23:49
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