| Win7Mac | determing EU- and nono-EU-members in voting machine will be dificult I guess, we may use lists instead? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| juiceme | Win7Mac, is that necessary even? | 00:03 |
| juiceme | why differentiate? | 00:03 |
| Oksana | EU-members are only important for Board candidates, not for voters? And yes, that could be a complication for voting machine... | 00:03 |
| juiceme | my thoughts exactly, no difference when voting | 00:04 |
| chem|st | juiceme: where is the point in having people have a status without voting right or responsibility? just for the sake of having someone "called" member of the board? | 00:04 |
| chem|st | good evening everybody | 00:04 |
| juiceme | chem|st, hi! | 00:04 |
| Oksana | Welcome :-) | 00:04 |
| chem|st | and at this point it is not very important to have a voting engine, well good idea to have a look but for 14people? | 00:05 |
| Win7Mac | let's assume we'll limit board positions to 3+2 and there'll be at least 6 candidates - how to rank? | 00:06 |
| juiceme | chem|st, I thought non-EU members have as much responsibility and accountability as EU members? | 00:06 |
| chem|st | juiceme: not for board | 00:06 |
| juiceme | there was only some tasks that they could not do, like chairing & treasuring? | 00:07 |
| Win7Mac | juiceme, their voice has same weigth in board, they just don't need to register at court | 00:07 |
| juiceme | ok, then I was istaken | 00:07 |
| chem|st | hum? | 00:07 |
| juiceme | s/istaken/mistaken/ | 00:07 |
| Oksana | /A link would be helpful... To some official website about e.V. and Board and EU.../ | 00:07 |
| chem|st | not registered at court is for me a reason to exclude the voting rights! | 00:08 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, there's quite some room to shape that | 00:08 |
| juiceme | I second a need for a link (in english hopefully) that'd clear this out. | 00:09 |
| chem|st | if a member of the board is not registered at court he does not have legal responsibility, who is stupid enough to have the legal responsibility in that case? | 00:09 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, that's why only +2... | 00:10 |
| Win7Mac | so the 3 responsible can't be overridden | 00:10 |
| Win7Mac | if tthey're same opinion | 00:10 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: do you have a BGB link in english at hand? | 00:11 |
| Win7Mac | sorry | 00:11 |
| juiceme | I am a bit divided on this, what I'd like to see is possibikity of other nationalities to be in the board too. | 00:12 |
| chem|st | that is one vote they need... to have a majority | 00:12 |
| Win7Mac | BGB is 1000s of pages... | 00:12 |
| Oksana | In German is fine, too - even Google Translate cannot even mangle it that much... | 00:12 |
| Oksana | Win7Mac: Is BGB online and search-able - scroll-able - read-able? | 00:12 |
| gerbick | yes it can | 00:12 |
| chem|st | juiceme: that was the deal from the beginning, mentioned loud and clear | 00:12 |
| chem|st | http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/ | 00:13 |
| juiceme | Yes there was discussion about it, but I did not recall the outcome | 00:13 |
| Oksana | Board of Directors consists of three or more natural persons at least 21 years of age. It shall represent the association legally and extrajudicial... | 00:15 |
| chem|st | not much discussion, non-EU must not be representative body eg board registered at court | 00:15 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, no one vote is not enough | 00:15 |
| Win7Mac | 2/3 majority | 00:15 |
| chem|st | the two plus the on is 3 that is more than 50% of 5... | 00:15 |
| chem|st | hmm so we are currently in a put if we disagree? | 00:16 |
| Win7Mac | sorry, it's simple majority in board | 00:17 |
| chem|st | (3) The Board is making decisions based on the bare majority of all valid votes cast. In the event of a tie the motion is rejected. Abstentions are not counted. | 00:18 |
| Win7Mac | after all, it's just a suggestion from my side, but we definetely wanna limit board positions either way, no? | 00:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hey folks, I need to run off - have to make some payments before the relevant offices close. I'll try to get back online within the hour. | 00:18 |
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| chem|st | who is $garage-admin? | 00:19 |
| Oksana | chem|st: Christian Ratzenhofer? | 00:20 |
| Oksana | Yes, merlin1991 | 00:21 |
| chem|st | merlin is, ok thought so | 00:23 |
| chem|st | will ask him about the group options in garage for the mcev | 00:24 |
| chem|st | juiceme: did you clean up ML stuff? | 00:24 |
| juiceme | yes | 00:24 |
| juiceme | been purging it regularily | 00:25 |
| chem|st | how big a deal would a ML for eV? | 00:26 |
| chem|st | be | 00:26 |
| chem|st | that would be the other idea | 00:26 |
| Oksana | Chapters 55-79 within Registered associations. :confused: Where is the requirement for Board members to be EU residents-citizens?.. [It's quite long, the table of contents alone...] | 00:26 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, only those directors representing the eV (board) need to register | 00:27 |
| Oksana | chem|st: Mailing list? Could be nice. Not sure, though - maybe, http://maemo.org/community/eV would be better? | 00:27 |
| juiceme | chem|st I have not looked iinto it but I suspect it'd be real easy to set up. Do you mean an invite-only ML for GA? | 00:27 |
| Win7Mac | there may be non-representing directors next to them | 00:27 |
| Win7Mac | or, complementing them | 00:28 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac what is the difference between representive and non-representive? | 00:28 |
| Win7Mac | just described it... | 00:28 |
| Oksana | Win7Mac: Where is the definition of non-representing director in the BGB? | 00:28 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, no clue | 00:29 |
| juiceme | is it only the thing that others are legally responsible? (can face court if do illegal things?) | 00:29 |
| Win7Mac | the only minimum is 1 EU-director, the rest is set by the bylaws | 00:29 |
| Oksana | http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/index.html | 00:30 |
| Win7Mac | juiceme, legally responsible are only those registered (for board decisions), besides that everybody is responsible for what he does as individual | 00:31 |
| juiceme | I am thinking what chem|st said earlier about responsibility, si there is no way to force non-court-signed non-EU directors to be responsible under law? | 00:31 |
| juiceme | OK, then I think I get it. | 00:32 |
| juiceme | In that case I am siding with chem|st then, unless responsibility can be somehow affirmed | 00:33 |
| Win7Mac | hmm... what if we made sure the 3 EU can't be overruled by the other 2? | 00:35 |
| * Oksana still cannot find anything about citizenship or residency in BGB... | 00:35 | |
| Oksana | Can anybody point me to a section in http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html ? | 00:35 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, forget searching BGB, it's way too long | 00:36 |
| Win7Mac | I've cleared this with an attourney | 00:36 |
| juiceme | hey ho, the night is already far and I need to go to bed. | 00:36 |
| juiceme | so good night, see you later! | 00:37 |
| Oksana | Bylaws do not say anything about citizenship, either? | 00:37 |
| Oksana | So it's minimum 3 Board members, out of whom at least 1 has to be EU? | 00:37 |
| Win7Mac | and another meeting with nothing cleared... :( | 00:38 |
| Oksana | TM announcement will be published, soon... | 00:38 |
| Win7Mac | minimum 3 Board members, out of whom 3 has to be EU | 00:38 |
| Oksana | Win7Mac: Please, sources for statements... ^ the only minimum is 1 EU-director, the rest is set by the bylaws | 00:38 |
| Win7Mac | is what ev bylaws say, legally, there's a minimum of 1 | 00:39 |
| RzR | hi | 00:39 |
| RzR | I am late but around | 00:39 |
| Win7Mac | again, legally, there's a minimum of 1 director only, which has to be EU | 00:40 |
| chem|st | Oksana: basically non-eu citizens are not allowed to represent a company without proper papers eg residence authorization | 00:40 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, exactly. Besides that, there may be others though | 00:40 |
| chem|st | Oksana: wait for the TM stuff till I am back with a bank account number | 00:41 |
| Oksana | Ok, bylaws, thank you :-) : Board of Directors consists of three or more natural persons at least 21 years of age. | 00:41 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, why? we're asking for confirmation first... | 00:42 |
| Win7Mac | or support | 00:42 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: sure there may be 50 board members... but who is sane enough to take legal responsibility? | 00:42 |
| Oksana | chem|st: non-eu citizens are not allowed to represent a company without proper papers e.g. residence authorisation -> link? | 00:42 |
| chem|st | ehrm insane | 00:42 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, don't question it, it's like that, really | 00:43 |
| Oksana | chem|st: We would need 50 members GA, first! | 00:43 |
| * Oksana is in favour of having Board size proportional to size of GA... Like, growing as number of members in GA grows... | 00:44 | |
| Oksana | Like, a Parliament. But it would be terribly complicated... | 00:45 |
| Oksana | could* | 00:45 |
| chem|st | guys, gal, I really do not get the point, our board is the "legal" representation, we do not decide anything out of the blue and the GA is the actual power in an eV... once we talked about that change in board is always a hassle as we need to file at court for 50eur each time and we need to have them people assigned to the bankaccount | 00:47 |
| Win7Mac | for board positions, it is not exactly desired to have a high fluctuation since the 3 need bank account acces and need to register at court... | 00:48 |
| Oksana | :-) Okay, okay, 3-members board is fine for 14-members GA. But that question will be raised time and time again, as GA grows! | 00:48 |
| chem|st | so apart from having the honour to be a board member, sign off payments and go to a notary and send sheet-stacks of BS court papers around there is nothing... | 00:48 |
| chem|st | the dropout of niel, 50eur (if I had filed that in time which I gladly did not!) | 00:50 |
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| chem|st | if we pass one election without change that saves 50eurs... | 00:50 |
| chem|st | I already paid 100eur for BS at court including registration | 00:51 |
| chem|st | next election is with change so that is 50eur... | 00:51 |
| Oksana | Bureaucracy... I can see that. | 00:51 |
| Win7Mac | right, we NEED one more candidate (assuming chem|st + juiceme will re-run) | 00:52 |
| chem|st | if we have 40 members we can think about a 2eur member fee though, just to pay for the annual bureaucracy BS | 00:52 |
| Oksana | Diversity of opinions is important. That's one of the reasons to want more members on the Board - to avoid something strange happening, when one person is not available, and other two have opposite opinions, or something... | 00:52 |
| Oksana | chem|st: Please, don't. | 00:52 |
| Oksana | Just the international fees will eat more than those 2EUR, for each person. | 00:53 |
| chem|st | I don't, GA may decide that! | 00:53 |
| Oksana | Okay :-) | 00:53 |
| Win7Mac | ;-) | 00:53 |
| * Oksana will vote against fees - and send in donation, when possible... | 00:53 | |
| chem|st | Oksana: in my world there are no 15eur fees... MCeV will accept bitcoin as soon as we get it sorted! | 00:53 |
| Oksana | :-) :-) :-) | 00:54 |
| Oksana | People will ask about Paypal, though... | 00:54 |
| Oksana | And bank transfer, too. And other alternatives... | 00:54 |
| chem|st | but first I need a slot in my schedule free where the bank has actual working hours... our accountant was busy with being off work for all occasions I could free up so far - after that we have a bank account (this, if I make Thursday or next week) | 00:55 |
| Win7Mac | aha, amen... | 00:56 |
| chem|st | paypal, is always a hassle and is even more expansive than accepting creditcards^^ | 00:56 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: yeah, I have retraining and two broken machines at work... I barely make 19:00 starting off at 9:15 this morning | 00:58 |
| chem|st | it would all be much easier if banks would open one hour earlier | 00:58 |
| chem|st | and court too... I want those office hours... oh wait I have exactly the same apart of I start at the same time but stay one hour longer and do not take 2hours for lunch | 01:00 |
| Win7Mac | last thing from my side: we need to pester the US HiFo guys to do the tax declaration, I've had several attempts with no response :( | 01:00 |
| Win7Mac | there's not much we can do from germany i believe | 01:00 |
| chem|st | hmm | 01:00 |
| chem|st | we could ask rob though | 01:01 |
| Oksana | Continuation of this one would be nice, too - http://hildonfoundation.org/supporters/ | 01:01 |
| chem|st | don't know if his "please note" email was some kind of offering his guidance | 01:01 |
| chem|st | Oksana: if you understand midgard well enough to make a MCeV page that does not blow the whole system - be my guest! | 01:02 |
| Win7Mac | still, i'd like to hear Jaffa's input | 01:02 |
| chem|st | sure | 01:03 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, no donations been made since then | 01:03 |
| Win7Mac | due to broken paypal + bank account | 01:04 |
| chem|st | everything broken.... | 01:04 |
| chem|st | our legal address is still robs iirc | 01:04 |
| Win7Mac | right | 01:04 |
| chem|st | :/ | 01:04 |
| Oksana | Win7Mac: What about expenses? There were about 4000 EUR, according to the table; there are now about 3000EUR, if I remember correctly? | 01:04 |
| Oksana | chem|st: What kind of MCeV page? | 01:04 |
| chem|st | lawyer to setup MCeV + hosting + idk | 01:05 |
| chem|st | Oksana: THE MCeV page | 01:05 |
| Oksana | Something like maemocommunity.org ? | 01:05 |
| * Oksana doesn't know DNS hosting well enough... | 01:06 | |
| chem|st | no something like maemo.org/Maemo_Community_e.V. | 01:06 |
| Win7Mac | HiFo currently (last time I heard) has a balance of 3.378$ | 01:06 |
| chem|st | Oksana: midgard is that broken CMS we have inherited from nokia which is the fragile backbone of maemo.org | 01:06 |
| Oksana | Ah, http://maemo.org/Maemo_Community_e.V. ... | 01:07 |
| chem|st | something like that yes | 01:07 |
| Oksana | Win7Mac: Detailed history from past to present would be nice... | 01:07 |
| chem|st | actually http://maemo.org/Community/ is the page that needs to be renewed and noone knows how | 01:08 |
| Win7Mac | http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoCommunity_eV | 01:08 |
| Win7Mac | right, http://maemo.org/Community/ could use some sort of update | 01:10 |
| Oksana | Okay, will add to http://maemo.org/Community/ a link to http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoCommunity_eV ? And probably another link or two? | 01:10 |
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| Oksana | chem|st: will wait for the TM stuff till you are back with a bank account number | 01:11 |
| chem|st | Oksana: uh please do not touch anything you do not know exactly what happens when you do! :) | 01:11 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, well, there's this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Hildon_Foundation/Hildon_e.V. not sure if its's any help | 01:11 |
| Oksana | Thank you! | 01:11 |
| Oksana | chem|st: Will be careful. | 01:11 |
| Win7Mac | Oksana, I'm there for questions anytime, glad to help. if i can | 01:13 |
| * Oksana needs to write down the meeting minutes... | 01:32 | |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm gonna go ahead and log out since activity has pretty much stopped. | 01:38 |
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| chem|st | o/ | 01:43 |
| Win7Mac | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1462909&postcount=5 | 01:43 |
| Win7Mac | gnite o/ | 01:43 |
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| Oksana | Good night to all who welcome the night, who go to sleep... Good day, good night, and good luck | 01:53 |
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| juiceme | and good morning to all :) | 07:47 |
| Oksana | Moin :-) | 07:53 |
| juiceme | Thanks for the minutes, well done again :) | 08:01 |
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| peterleinchen | morning again ;) | 10:03 |
| peterleinchen | oksana, thx! | 10:03 |
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| juiceme | peterleinchen, you're pretty quick peeker today :) | 10:05 |
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| xes | ..just wondering... If a single application con obtain this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1460279&postcount=724 How much could / should we expect from an entire community? | 15:36 |
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