| peterleinchen | had someone to do the re-search ;) | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| peterleinchen | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1454551&postcount=26 | 00:07 |
| peterleinchen | https://web.archive.org/web/20131117073522/http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ | 00:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | peterleinchen: I believe there are legal reasons why there are no valid links on TMO | 00:08 |
| peterleinchen | we are "hosting" the links (and there are some more mirrors) on TMO. | 00:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | otherwise we could host the stuff on MO where is belongs | 00:09 |
| peterleinchen | in different threads | 00:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/is/it/ | 00:09 |
| peterleinchen | direct hosting is "forbidden" for us on MO | 00:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | peterleinchen: I think the argument is we can understandably be forgiven if we accidentally don't notice links to legally dubious (all of them) backups of the images. | 00:10 |
| peterleinchen | but linking? (afair the discussions over then, not) | 00:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | "accidentally" | 00:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | tmo is different as people are posting personal links. wmo is hosting a link to external. | 00:11 |
| peterleinchen | if so, edit wiki page and remove old broken links, stating use goggle! | 00:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | But technically, at least in some jurisdictions, the act of knowingly allowing (let alone adding) links is legally in the wrong if you're not supposed to be able to redistribute the content. | 00:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | updating firmware page was full of links to mirrors all removed | 00:12 |
| juiceme | I suppose it is safe to point out the names of files and name of hosting site, and ask to use google | 00:12 |
| juiceme | kind of, "not posting a complete link" :) | 00:12 |
| juiceme | and of course posting MD5 sums is OK | 00:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | That said, someone might say "put it in anyway, and pretend we didn't notice or sanction it in the unlikely event it ever gets noticed (it won't)" | 00:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | peterleinchen: technically that is where the stuff should be. There is a note to say us search engine to find images | 00:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..that someone won't be me because legal reasons, but you know. | 00:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | juiceme I think MD5 sum is a good idea. But this also adds to the importance of keeping the page locked IMO. | 00:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Agreed. Hints to use search engines, leave known good MD5 sums, and keep it locked. | 00:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | ("Or link directly and pretend we didn't" the aforementioned someone might say.) | 00:15 |
| peterleinchen | I am perfectly fine with above (not the one in brackests ;)) | 00:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | This is the kind of aspect of copyright shit that makes me want massive reforms to copyright everywhere. | 00:16 |
| juiceme | I also think this is good idea. | 00:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | There is no ethically sound reason why a company which has abandonware'd the entire Maemo 5 system should get to hold any legal authority over the flasher utilities and firmware images thereto. | 00:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | And therefore it's a blight in our legal system that that shit flies legally. | 00:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/system/system(s)/ | 00:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | [/rant] | 00:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | [quote] Note: If http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ does not work (for any reason including corrupted data and/or duplicate headers error message) use google with the file names below to find better download locations. [/quote] | 00:19 |
| juiceme | well, copyright laws are forged with havy involvement of industry lobbiers. The big companies have their greasy finger down there in the middle of the mess. :( | 00:19 |
| juiceme | sixwheeledbeast, that's good | 00:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | [rant p.s.]Esp. given that in many jurisdictions it is explicitly recognized that intellectual property rights are only tolerated under the supposition that they indirectly contribute to the greater good. There is no manner in which the current flasher/firmware situation does that.[/rant p.s.] | 00:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | juiceme: that's all ready there added by doc | 00:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | sixwheeledbeast: Great, then I guess just MD5 sums are needed? | 00:20 |
| peterleinchen | IF ... does not work? ;) we KNOW it does not work. | 00:22 |
| peterleinchen | MentalistTraceur, you have all files? and md5sums? | 00:24 |
| juiceme | MentalistTraceur the whole IPR mess is something that's gone right off da edge. Just like patenting; you are correct that the original intent was to indeed enable the inventors to *publish* their ideas for advancement of science and technology, while at the same time to gain a slice of profit for themselves; it was never meant to become a tool for abuse and legal hammer to smas your opponents nor an extortion tool to be used to squash industries. | 00:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | peterleinchen: Not on me right now. But they are readily available, right? The files? | 00:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | I figured someone with editing priviledges would get the MD5 sums themselves, since having another person do that seems like additional overhead. | 00:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | I guess if we wanted to do it "right" we'd have two separate trusted individuals flash each firmware image to a spare N900, audit it for suspicious behavior (the audit steps would be publicized of course), and only then submit an MD5 sum. | 00:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..then we'd all see that both sources' MD5 sums matched and say "cool", then verify that that's what went into the final edit. | 00:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | But I kinda assumed we weren't "srs bsns" enough to make that happen. | 00:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have put that text in an {ambox} on the wiki page to make it stick out. People generally don't read the whole page and then get confused. Point me to valid and confirmed MD5 sums and I will put them up when I get a minute. | 00:32 |
| juiceme | yes, that procedure would be OK. And not too heavy IMHO as it just needs to be done once. | 00:32 |
| peterleinchen | have all files downloaded from tablets-dev, as there was the time | 00:34 |
| peterleinchen | but put it on hdd in safe ;) so it might take me some time to discover them again and md5 them | 00:35 |
| peterleinchen | but will do so, so expect me to be one of those | 00:35 |
| peterleinchen | and no I will not flash my device with all those files (did it once with global FW and it worked :)) | 00:36 |
| peterleinchen | so who will/wants to be the other control party? | 00:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | I do have a spare N900 (or two, if really pressed, I'm up to four total now...), but lack the time for proper auditing, or the image files currently. | 00:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | (I've been using a slightly customized image which modified eMMC partition sizes for years now.) | 00:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/which modified/with modified/ | 00:41 |
| peterleinchen | there is no need to flash/test firmwares on device. really. if we get two people confirm md5sum I assume they are correct (mine could only be broken by bad download) | 00:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or someone maliciously contaminated them long ago and we both got our copies from the same source. :P | 00:45 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not very likely, which is why I'm not sweating it. | 00:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | But is worth noting, I think, as a technically feasible possibility. | 00:46 |
| peterleinchen | ;) (on tablets-dev.nokia.com? long time ago?) unlikely, but not impossible, right | 00:47 |
| juiceme | mmh, I'll drop off now, so gnite all! | 00:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | Night juiceme! | 00:50 |
| peterleinchen | juiceme, night | 00:50 |
| MentalistTraceur | peterleinchen: Well if you got them from there, then yeah, you're fine from that. | 00:50 |
| * peterleinchen is also tired | 00:50 | |
| MentalistTraceur | But I'd currently would be getting them from one of the third party backups. | 00:50 |
| peterleinchen | MentalistTraceur, even better. then we are 100% safe (if md5 matching) | 00:51 |
| peterleinchen | so have a nice evening, gnite | 00:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yes. Unless, say, hypothetically, you were in cahoots with someone who hosted a maliciously-modified backup, then, short of an audit that's not getting noted. Still, like I said, I'm not too worried. | 00:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | Night! | 00:52 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Hope he didn't interpret that as in any way implying I found him untrustworthy. | 00:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, guess that's it for the meeting. | 00:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | Bye @ idling people. | 00:53 |
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