IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2015-01-06

*** Oksana has quit IRC00:20
*** Oksana has joined #maemo-meeting00:36
*** kolp has quit IRC00:53
*** Oksana has quit IRC02:47
*** Oksana has joined #maemo-meeting02:58
*** kolp has joined #maemo-meeting09:14
*** xes has joined #maemo-meeting12:31
*** RzR has joined #maemo-meeting20:31
*** RzR is now known as rZZZr21:36
*** RzR has joined #maemo-meeting21:43
*** peterleinchen has joined #maemo-meeting22:00
*** Atomic_F0vnB has joined #maemo-meeting22:01
juicemehia all! \o/22:01
juicemeAtomic_F0vnB, welcome :)22:01
*** Atomic_F0vnB has left #maemo-meeting22:02
juicemepeterleinchen, hello!22:02
peterleinchenjuicme, also to you a very kind hello :)22:02
juicemeback home I am... tomorrow to work22:02
*** RzR2 has joined #maemo-meeting22:03
juicemeRzR2, hiya22:03
juicemeRzR, changing hats at will? :D22:03
RzR2hi from my bb10ac22:03
*** RzR has quit IRC22:04
*** RzR2 is now known as RzR22:04
* RzR is feeling himself now22:05
peterleinchenwill be back ...22:05
*** peterleinchen has quit IRC22:05
RzRso this will be my last meeting as councillor22:05
*** Rz1 has joined #maemo-meeting22:06
RzRis the new team here?22:06
*** peterleinchen has joined #maemo-meeting22:06
*** Rz1 has quit IRC22:06
* peterleinchen is back22:07
RzROksana: here?22:09
juicemeNobody announced themselves yet22:09
peterleinchenlooks like still sleeping?22:10
peterleinchen(oksana I meant)22:10
juicemeprobably. What's the time in AUS now?22:10
juicemeit's afternoon in the states where gerbick is22:10
juicemeit's going to be tricky for us...22:11
RzRmay we setup an othere meeting on mornings then22:11
peterleinchenguess we should wait for the others22:12
juicemeif we had meeting a few hours later, say 22:00 UTC or 23:00 UTC, then it'd be late afternoon in USA and morning in AUS, would that be OK?22:12
RzRor pm then22:12
RzRI could handle that22:13
juicemeplease :)22:13
OksanaGood morning22:13
RzROksana: happy new year in the other side of the globe22:14
OksanaHappy New Year to you, too :-)22:14
*** gerbick has joined #maemo-meeting22:14
RzR1st let me congratulate you all22:14
gerbicksorry for running late.22:15
juicemegerbick, welcome :)22:15
RzRNot a problem where is mtraceur?22:15
juicemeOksana, welcome :)22:15
OksanaWelcome :-)22:15
juicememtraceur, he's from USA too right?22:16
juicemewhat timezone?22:16
RzRat least n america22:16
gerbickdidn't think so22:16
juicemeah ok22:17
Oksana /msg NickServ Info MentalistTraceur22:17
RzRhe left on halloween22:18
RzRsuspicious isn't it? ;)22:19
RzRI need to setup my addr to maemo someday22:19
juicemeOksana, yes I see, long time since he wa on irc22:19
RzRping him on tmo22:20
gerbickso what are the collective timezones for the new crew versus the old crew?22:23
RzRup to you22:23
gerbickare we more scattered?22:23
OksanaGMT+11 here22:23
RzRyou need to decide when all are together22:24
gerbickGMT +5 here22:24
*** svetlana has joined #maemo-meeting22:24
RzRgive your preferences on tmo and see if traceur can join too22:25
gerbickwill do. I'm more free at night, usually can think in English then too22:26
juicemesvetlana, hiya22:26
juicemeI was thinking if we do this a bit later, then it'd be late afternoon in USA and morning in AUS22:27
RzRgerbick: aren't u native speaker? I am not as you can read the funny English I use22:27
juicemehowever, the other way would be OK for me, generally mornings would work OK.22:28
gerbicknative American, so not sure if that qualifies me enough to claim English as my first language - we try hard to not destroy the Queen's English too badly.22:28
juicemethen if we took, let's say 07:00 UTC, that'd be after midingtht for gerbick and evening for oksana22:29
gerbickthat'd work for me22:29
OksanaAny time between 20:00 UTC and 5:00 UTC would work for me, I suppose.22:29
gerbickI'm usually awake and working with China22:29
juicemethat leaves peterleinchen, it would be pretty early as I think his TZ is UTC+122:30
sixwheeledbeast^o/ all, congrats to the new council members.22:30
juicemesixwheeledbeast, hiya :)22:30
gerbickthanks! surprised to be listed alongside cool contributors.22:31
* sixwheeledbeast^ is has the flu so is only here in spirit...22:31
OksanaGet well soon!22:32
juicemeget well, flu's too bad22:32
RzRwhat doesn't kill you makes you stronger22:32
sixwheeledbeast^I'll agree with you when I can walk in a straight line and feel a bit more human again.22:33
OksanaI sent a PM via TMO to Mentalist Traceur. Should I send a email, too?22:34
juicemewould not hurt22:34
gerbickso is this going to be the only time the old council will meet with the new for a transference or is there a longer period and/or opportunities?22:36
juicemeokay, about the council mailing list. You all need to be added to the list so we can share isead and be contacted as a group.22:36
juicemegerbick, I'd say not once-for-ever, as I believe RzR's not going anywhere :)22:37
juicemeand meetings at #maemo-meeting are public where any community members can voice out22:37
RzRI can remain here the next 6 months22:37
juicemexes, are you here?22:37
juicemexes, could you arrange the council mailing list addresses for new mwmbers?22:38
* peterleinchen is partially back (water troubles in house ...)22:38
Oksana /msg NickServ Info mtraceur22:38
RzRbtw I am 100% the old council22:38
peterleinchenhi to all (again)22:38
juicemeoo, hppe not anything like a river flooding thru your basement?22:39
gerbickI'm typing and in a (boring) meeting. so forgive my delays22:39
peterleinchenespecially gerbick, oksana22:39
peterleinchendid you already agree on time?22:39
gerbickI'd say no22:39
juicemegerbick, not an uncommon thing for me also :)22:39
* peterleinchen reading log22:39
juicemepeterleinchen, how are you for a morning person :) :)22:40
juicemethought so...22:40
peterleinchenis taht enough comment? :)22:40
OksanaUTC: 20:00-to-5:00 would work for me. 11:00-13:00 would also work.22:40
peterleinchenas said 20:00utc perfect22:41
peterleinchenbut also okay (a bit) later22:41
juicemewe'll need opinion of mtraceur too22:41
RzRAnd assign roles then22:43
RzRBtw do u know22:45
RzRchair for minutes etc22:46
RzRI used to maintain wiki pages and forum22:46
OksanaOkay, besides mailing list: what about IRC cloaks? Oh, cool:
RzRwould like someone to continue doing this22:46
RzROksana: would u like to replace me?22:47
juicemewho's handy with wiki?22:47
RzRor gerbick ?22:47
OksanaI like Wiki.22:47
RzRdefinitely a job for wikiwide22:48
RzRso basically the page should be setup for new council22:48
RzROksana: ask sixwheeledbeast someday22:49
OksanaOkay, will ask.22:50
RzRyou can use the same form or improve it22:50
RzRuntil it is setup then use that one22:50
RzRmaybe you can't edit it now22:50
RzRthen u can edit22:50
gerbickcatching up22:51
peterleinchenwhat about chair then? as i would have liked to nominate oksana as chair?22:51
gerbickthat'll work - Oksana for chair seconded22:51
RzROksana: then it will be cut and paste for new page22:52
OksanaLink? I'm currently at Council_Q4_2014/Agenda , then I will move to Community_Council22:53
RzRtalk page upper22:53
*** MentalistTraceur has joined #maemo-meeting22:54
juicemeMentalistTraceur, welcome :)22:54
peterleinchenmentalisttraceur, welcome22:54
juicemenow we are all present, nice!22:54
MentalistTraceurSorry for late arrival, wasn't able to get to internet at the right time.22:54
gerbickwelcome aboard22:54
juicemefirst thing I need to ask, what's your timezone?22:54
juicemewe have been looking at possible meeting slots22:55
MentalistTraceurUTC -522:55
RzRand happy new 0.5 year22:55
juicemeMentalistTraceur, so same as gerbick's22:55
juicemeand happy new year btw22:55
peterleinchenyep, to all of us22:55
MentalistTraceurThank you, and happy new year to everyone here from myself as well.22:56
RzR needs to edited too22:59
juicemeyes, RzR can you do it?23:01
peterleinchenso what time will be appropriate for all of us?23:01
OksanaTake a look at
MentalistTraceurSo, can someone link me to the election results? I didn't see them in my inbox for some reason like I thought I had on prior elections...23:03
Oksana UTC: 20:00-to-5:00 would work for me. 11:00-13:00 would also work. Otherwise... Good exercise for writing Chatzilla script to deliver specific messages at specific time to specific place.23:03
* chem|st is reading but occupied - grats to the new elected23:03
OksanaThank you!23:03
OksanaFor some reason, the automatic calculation does not work23:05
MentalistTraceurSo for time slots, I have work from UTC ~13:00 to UTC ~22:00, roughly speaking. Work has an unfortunate tendency to sometimes require us to work late for releases after hours, so that may come up some times, though it probably won't collide with council meetings all that often...23:06
RzRtoo many candidates and too many voters ;)23:06
MentalistTraceurI will make myself available at any other times besides that, I'm not picky about my sleep schedule.23:07
peterleinchentime slot would then look like start at 22:00UTC?23:08
peterleinchenquite late for me23:08
peterleinchenand even more late for juiceme23:08
juicemehi sorry I was writing a mail and missed a bit of talk...23:09
MentalistTraceurHmm... I can also attempt to do council meetings using my lunch time during work, which is fine but wouldn't allow me to stay as long. Might not be an issue nowadays, but when I was last on Council, sessions tended to run longer than an hour, often two hours even.23:10
juicemeas I said, I am willing to go few hours later than UTC 20:00, but not too much... 22:00 could be OK23:10
peterleinchenluch time for mtraceur/gerbick would be early evening (family dinner time)23:11
juicemeOksana, yes there was some strange thing in the automatic calculation for this latest election, it just would not start :(  The previous elections computed OK when I redid them, but not this one.23:12
peterleinchenso I would prefer also 22:00utc (which is 23:00 and in summer 00:00)23:12
OksanaOk. Any logs?23:12
juicemenone, really. nothing anomalous23:13
juicemeit's just php scripts23:13
juicemenot logging much, so needs to add logging and go on with it. xes was checking it last as I know23:13
juicemebut it needs to be checked to prevent from happening again.23:14
OksanaMaybe, empty ballots confused it?23:14
juicemethe fallback is to calculate the results offline and upload the HTML results to database, as was done now23:14
juicemeah, could be it.23:15
OksanaPrevious election had 83 ballots, all non-empty.23:15
juicemeI did not check if previous elections had those23:15
*** RzR has quit IRC23:15
*** RzR has joined #maemo-meeting23:15
juicemehowever, the vote handling is done in the OpenSTV module and it does not worry about empties23:15
OksanaThis one had same problem, too.
OksanaOne empty ballot ^23:16
juicemeso unless the problem was in feeding the ballots to STV, then I'd sa that's not the bug23:16
juicemeOksana I think you nailed it!23:17
OksanaThis one was fine. Despite empty ballots, it auto-did it.
juicemeit's probably the DB export to STV that gives :)23:17
OksanaSo, it's not that simple. But empty ballots are a factor.23:17
MentalistTraceurWell, [opinionated statement incoming] working with PHP is an experience kinda like working with the Bourne shell, syntax is different but otherwise it's just slightly less-breakage-prone-if-not-carefuly but slightly more-thematically-inconsistent and a bit less-sensible-when-you-do-understand-the-nuances, so: Where's the source code which does the calculating?23:18
MentalistTraceur(By which I mean to say: I'm curious if I can figure it out from looking at the code.)23:19
MentalistTraceurAwesome, thank you.23:20
juicemeMentalistTraceur, the php code is for example here:
juiceme(in my svn repo)23:21
juicemethere's also the DB schema in the directory.23:21
juicemethe actual calculations are run with OpenSTV23:21
MentalistTraceurjuiceme: Can't seem to get a DNS resolution for that subdomain, so can't load.23:24
MentalistTraceurAnyway, I don't want to sidetrack us.23:24
MentalistTraceur..with my tangent of wanting to get at the source code, so I'll stow away my questions on that for now.23:25
peterleinchenmentalisttraceur, try
juicemepeterleinchen, thanks. It's true all DNSes do not correctly resolve that.23:27
juicemeooo-kay. So what's the final verdict on the meeting times?23:28
MentalistTraceurSo, it sounded like juiceme and peterleinchen found 22 UTC on the edge of acceptable, and that time is obviously fine by me. What about gerbick and Wikiwide?23:28
MentalistTraceurOr I guess s/Wikiwide/Oksana/ to use the IRC handle.23:29
OksanaFor me, it's acceptable. gerbick?23:30
*** Win7Mac has joined #maemo-meeting23:31
OksanaGood morning23:31
peterleinchen21:00UTc would be better ;)23:31
peterleinchenjuiceme is okay with that and oksana as well23:32
OksanaUTC: 20:00-to-5:00 would work for me. 11:00-13:00 would also work.23:32
peterleinchenmtraceur probably (at least with 22:00)23:32
peterleinchengerbick, your ranges,please23:32
gerbickthat'll work.23:32
gerbickI'm pretty easy going to be honest.23:33
peterleinchenwhich one? 21 or 22?23:33
RzRhi Win7Mac23:33
Win7MacHi and welcome to new council23:33
MentalistTraceurHi Win7Mac23:33
Win7Machi MentalistTraceur :)23:34
Win7Macreally glad to see you here23:34
MentalistTraceurWell, the people willed it, I guess.23:34
peterleinchenmentalisttraceur, would you also be okay with 21:00UTC?23:35
peterleinchenwin7mac,hi and thx23:35
gerbick20-22 is fine. I'll just have to refine how I get to IRC since I'll be in the office23:36
MentalistTraceurpeterleinchen: I think on most days it will likely not be too much of a problem, but it does overlap with the last hour of the 'official' workday, so on some days I might get stuck in a meeting or something between 21 UTC and 22 UTC.23:37
peterleinchenis another day better? (for me not really, but possibly)23:38
MentalistTraceur(On weekends I can be available for any time slot.)23:38
juicemeWin7Mac, hi!23:39
MentalistTraceurAnyway, if you all find 21 preferable to 22, I don't want to be the one holding you back.23:39
gerbickwhat's up Win7Mac23:39
MentalistTraceurSchedule it for 21, and I'll be able to make it on most days, I suspect.23:39
juiceme21:00 utc it is, then23:39
juicemeso, what weekdays do you prefer?23:39
gerbicksounds good. that'll land at the end of Tue day, can afford me to avoid traffic.23:40
peterleinchenyep, fixed! (for the moment)23:40
juicemethe current tuesday is just arbittraty choice23:40
MentalistTraceurFriday gets my vote for weekdays, now that we have 21 UTC as the time slot.23:40
gerbickThursday is a very bad day for me. all others are fine23:40
peterleinchentuesday is fine23:41
juicemefor me weekdays are OK, and currently weekends also23:41
peterleinchenwednesday not really possible23:41
juicemeOksana, what's your preference?23:41
OksanaTuesday's fine, by me. It's better than Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Saturday.23:41
peterleinchenoksana, :) you forgot thursday ;)23:42
juicemesounds that tuesday's no problem for most of us, then?23:42
juicemeif no objections, let's set it (as for current) 21:00 UTC on tuesdays.23:43
gerbickyep. dienstag works for me23:43
peterleinchenlet us fix it then 8for the moment)23:44
OksanaOk. It's just, UTC Friday is Saturday morning for me, and weekends are hectic and unpredictable.23:44
peterleinchenas we all are here now, lets talk about the chair23:44
MentalistTraceurYes, I think Tuesday's fine for me as well. (Double checking right now to make sure that I'm not forgetting some regular weekly or biweekly meeting or something, but those are rarely that 'stable' anyway...)23:45
juicemea side note though... how many of you have been in Council before?23:45
* MentalistTraceur raises hand23:45
* peterleinchen too23:45
juicemeMentalistTraceur, how was it on your day?23:45
juicemepeterleinchen, sure :)23:46
juicemewhat I was sounding is if we have here people whoio did it yesteryear, what has changed and so on23:46
gerbick1st timer here. so be gentle, I know nothing23:46
peterleinchengerbick, like all of us once :)23:47
MentalistTraceurMy term was right after HiFo was established. I remember lots of debate about details of wording, what action to take or not to take or what was even possible, and having to write up long emails/messages on behalf of the council.23:47
juicemeI guess that was pretty turbulent23:47
peterleinchenjuiceme, like our first weeks ;)23:48
Win7Macgerbick, MentalistTraceur: if you need info on the MC eV, please feel free to pester me directly anytime or post here:
peterleinchenwin7mac, thanks23:49
juicemeyes! Win7Mac is the expert on that :)23:49
peterleinchensame  counts for oksana, ovc23:49
Win7Macofc ;)23:50
gerbickwill do. have tons of questions23:50
peterleinchenWin7Mac, yep23:50
peterleinchenonce more the question about chair: who we will assign?23:51
Win7Macjuiceme did very well...23:51
peterleinchenas JUICEME, MENTALISTTRACEUR, and PETERLEINCHEN already were23:51
juicemeso, we need to choose Council Chair in the first meeting, and Oksana was proposed.23:51
gerbickwe sorta said Oksana earlier23:52
peterleinchenI would go for oksana (or gerbick)?23:52
gerbickno, not gerbick23:52
juicemetradition is that first-timers will be chosen :)23:52
OksanaWhat will the chair be doing?23:52
peterleinchengerbick, who did say so? ;)23:52
juicemeprimary thing is to keep the minutes and announce things23:53
gerbickI rarely follow traditions ;)23:53
peterleinchenoksana, as juiceme said23:53
OksanaTake a look at:
juicemeand if we need to vote, tally the votes23:53
peterleinchenand trying to keep meetings in line (if possible :)23:53
OksanaOn-topic? And remind about the agenda?23:54
peterleinchenbut in last council we did that stuff all together (except minutes)23:54
chem|stjuiceme: don't forget that council and especially chair is to announce general assembly of the eV and hold the assembly23:54
MentalistTraceurIf more detail is desired about my experience: There was a semi-regular recurrance of hostility between some people, myself on some of those occasions included... Otherwise, lots of Joerg organizing the techstaff and helping keep stuff alive on that front (he and I had our disagreements but he deserves recognition for that). Besides that I recall qwazix trying to follow up with Nokia ...23:54
juicemeOksana, yes23:54
MentalistTraceur... about a few award devices (N9/N950 or something) which had been lost in the mail or something.. That ultimately got dropped just before. Besides that we were asked to deal with some potentially device (N900) damaging packages in the community repos. For the most part others besides me had things to bring up for the agenda, and we occasionally took up discussion of concerns ...23:54
MentalistTraceur... community members brought up during the meeting., e.g. the harmful packages thing, various concerns about the referrendum/politics that went on back then, the aforementioned lost devices.23:54
MentalistTraceur(I realize convo kinda moved on by now)23:54
juicemechem|st, yes, that too. on the official meetings there is the role set by the bylabs23:55
MentalistTraceurI'm fine with Oksana, by the way, no objections here.23:57
juicemeMentalistTraceur, I suppose council tasks evolve with time just as everything else.23:57
OksanaTally the votes: should be easy. Remind about topics-agenda: should be easy. Write the meetings down to wiki: no problem. Keeping the minutes - what exactly is that?23:57
juicemesome things are still valid, working with techstaff, holding elections,23:58
RzRbefore I leave feel free to contact me about ongoing tasks I am not giving up23:58
OksanaThank you :-)23:58
peterleinchenRzR, thnanks in advance23:58
juicemeOksana, the meeting log is stored to web automatically, and it is shotrened to minutes and posted to the Maemo mailing list and blog page23:59
OksanaOk, so keeping minutes involves writing down to Wiki page the questions-and-decisions.23:59
MentalistTraceurOksana: you know those "Council Meeting Minutes" emails we get on the community mailing list (and when things work they're posted to wiki and TMO forum too)?23:59
RzRbut I feel the transition will be fast and smooth23:59
juicemeMentalistTraceur, exactly23:59
OksanaMentalistTraceur: Thanks, will look them up.23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!