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| RzR | Tue Aug 19 20:00:11 UTC 2014 | 23:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * RzR rings the bell | 23:00 | |
| nieldk | hi RzR | 23:00 |
| RzR | how are you ? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hi everybody. I'm not really joining, consider me semi-afk | 23:03 |
| RzR | nieldk: did you mailed jolla ? | 23:03 |
| RzR | hi DocScrutinizer51 | 23:03 |
| RzR | or semi-hi | 23:03 |
| RzR | hi to juiceme too | 23:04 |
| RzR | nieldk: have you mailed ... | 23:04 |
| nieldk | no mail yet | 23:04 |
| RzR | I should start learning english someday | 23:04 |
| nieldk | i didnt see from the logs from last meeting that the draft was approved | 23:05 |
| RzR | no last meeting was special :) | 23:06 |
| nieldk | yes | 23:06 |
| nieldk | this week was special ;) | 23:07 |
| RzR | and this one is supposed to be special as well | 23:07 |
| nieldk | hopefully | 23:08 |
| nieldk | hi DocScrutinizer51 :) | 23:08 |
| nieldk | and juiceme | 23:09 |
| RzR | so we're supposed to talk about http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93566 | 23:09 |
| nieldk | yes, kinda in doubt if anything can be decided though, but we will see | 23:11 |
| RzR | special if we're 2.42 in the room | 23:12 |
| RzR | specially | 23:12 |
| RzR | http://i.imgur.com/LBgHW34.jpg | 23:12 |
| RzR | lot of arrows there | 23:12 |
| nieldk | too complex | 23:13 |
| RzR | I count 10 | 23:13 |
| RzR | yea K.I.S.S. | 23:14 |
| RzR | http://www.nyx.net/~mrstarr/choppergirl.anarchy-tv.com/image_circuit_diagram.jpg | 23:15 |
| nieldk | much better lol | 23:16 |
| RzR | ;) | 23:16 |
| RzR | so 1st thing i will put in topic | 23:17 |
| nieldk | fx those blue arrows, change by 2/3 how does that compute | 23:17 |
| RzR | how many pple should be present to hold a meeting ? | 23:17 |
| nieldk | To make any decisions, I believe, 2/3 | 23:18 |
| RzR | the right one has simple majority | 23:19 |
| RzR | i suppose a minimum consensus is aimed | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I simply don't manage to stay calm watching win7mac constantly trying to redefine what's council | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't this guy get lost? | 23:20 |
| RzR | does general assembly ever existed ? | 23:20 |
| RzR | regular members = ? | 23:20 |
| nieldk | DocScrutinizer51, I understand, and I think it is something that needs to be adressed | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's an invention of win7mac | 23:20 |
| RzR | - regular members are accepted by board upon request | 23:21 |
| RzR | - regular members only are eligible to candidate AND vote for board | 23:21 |
| RzR | i quote him | 23:21 |
| nieldk | believe doc is right, at least I only saw thiat drawing on that page | 23:21 |
| * sixwheeledbeast says hi | 23:22 | |
| RzR | we should owe him an answer anyway | 23:22 |
| RzR | hi sixwheeledbeast | 23:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hi RzR | 23:22 |
| nieldk | hi sixwheeledbeast | 23:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | o/ | 23:22 |
| RzR | juiceme: was mentionned on 1st line of win7mac email | 23:23 |
| RzR | Just in case that was unclear, | 23:24 |
| RzR | I wasn't asking for an official council statement, | 23:24 |
| RzR | but for your opinion | 23:24 |
| RzR | and my intention was to start a discussion | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that regular members and general assembly crap is where win7mac failed to come up with something that's matching the way maemo community and council works, and to 'fix' that failure he now tries to redefine maemo community and council rules | 23:24 |
| nieldk | a discussion is good | 23:25 |
| RzR | anway we're supposed to represent the community | 23:26 |
| RzR | and nobody do reply this message | 23:26 |
| RzR | 10 thankers listed | 23:26 |
| RzR | and sixwheeledbeast is among them | 23:26 |
| RzR | so here is the hot patato for sixwheeledbeast ;) | 23:27 |
| nieldk | I think the confusion is due to the change from HiFo to eV, and the mess it originated from | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm *not* going to deal with this mess from my holiday via roaming | 23:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | eh? | 23:27 |
| RzR | sixwheeledbeast: isnt your name on last line of talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93566 | 23:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | RzR: and | 23:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ? | 23:28 |
| nieldk | but, since eV is just being initiated, is the rules and regulations set by HiFo still in act? | 23:28 |
| RzR | so please explain your position on this topic | 23:28 |
| RzR | or why did you thank w7m | 23:29 |
| * RzR is dressing with his inquisitor costume | 23:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rules and regulatons of HiFo are as irrelevant to council as are e.V. rules. Council has it's own rules and those won't get recdefined or overridden with anything those cashier entites set up | 23:30 |
| RzR | I can understand this too | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and his constant insisting in council allegedly has accepted HiFo rules is mega bullsh*t | 23:31 |
| RzR | but setting up coop would help | 23:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Am I not allowed to thank someone for contributing a large amount of time to the community with a proposal? This doesn't mean I agree or disagree with anything. | 23:31 |
| RzR | are there incopatibility between council rules and other organizations such as MCeV ? | 23:31 |
| nieldk | sixwheeledbeast, not at all, a post would tell | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly not | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but according to win7 there *are* incompatibilities which he defends with claws and teeth now | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's all so completely brainfscked | 23:32 |
| RzR | sixwheeledbeast: ok thanks for clarification ... I agrea the post deserve to be thanked since it should have taken some time | 23:33 |
| RzR | ok I have one proposition | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even chemist corrected him some 2 or 3 meetings back that thjere technically are some differences but those are not expected to actuaslly cause incompatibilities nor a change in what council is and rules it acts according to | 23:34 |
| RzR | may we invite community to comment this | 23:34 |
| RzR | to see if anyone does care | 23:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | RzR: go on | 23:34 |
| RzR | because noone did reply yet | 23:34 |
| nieldk | So, the issue perhaps can be identified as what mandate does council/HiFo(eV) and obviously, community members posess? | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually irrelevcant if anybody cares or not | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the mandate of HiFo is pretty clear: act as community's cashier | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and execute what council asks for, unless illegal | 23:36 |
| RzR | pretty clear for who ? | 23:36 |
| RzR | all i see there is just confusion | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for those who gave that mandate by voting | 23:37 |
| RzR | what about you nieldk ? | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only confusion I see is at win7mac | 23:37 |
| nieldk | DocScrutinizer51, meaning, board have the responsibility of communicating council requests (which probably will originate from members) to external parties, like nokia, jolla etc | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who thinks this mandate should be more than it actually is | 23:38 |
| nieldk | that is my understanding | 23:38 |
| RzR | rework council election rules incl. ยง6 (professional interests) a | 23:38 |
| RzR | that one seems important ... | 23:38 |
| RzR | and I can see at who it is targeted | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nieldk: WUT? | 23:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | "HiFo a nonprofit organization elected by the community to represent it in legal and other official matters and to preserve the maemo.org infrastructure" | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo is not about communication, it's about accounting and contracts | 23:39 |
| RzR | represent it | 23:40 |
| RzR | and other official matters | 23:40 |
| RzR | this is vague | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that is as precise as it gets | 23:40 |
| nieldk | thats what I meant with the communication with external parties, like agreements with Nokia, licensing transfers etc | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sufficiently precise, given the history why HiFo got invented and why it got established the way it is | 23:41 |
| nieldk | DocScrutinizer51, I agree with you :) | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo is the cashier. period | 23:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | "represent the community in legal and accounting matters" This is what I was under the impression HiFo was for. | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when win7mac thinks it OUGHT be more than justr that, then that's HIS problem and confusion | 23:42 |
| RzR | but to play the devil advocate | 23:42 |
| RzR | will all respect to w7m | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, sorry, I'm out | 23:42 |
| RzR | he's right on the broken voting system | 23:43 |
| RzR | this is something we should sort out before next election | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I told you I'm not going to discuss this mess from abroad via roaming | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: obviously | 23:44 |
| RzR | ok at least we can reply on that | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but not the way win7mac suggests | 23:44 |
| RzR | we'll fix it our way | 23:44 |
| RzR | or try to at least | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we had this "broken voting system" for 3 votes now | 23:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | what what exactly is broken? karma? | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually just problems in karma calculation | 23:45 |
| RzR | let's add this to | 23:45 |
| RzR | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Council_Q2_2014/Agenda | 23:45 |
| nieldk | so, can we address the karma issue then? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which doesn't justify abolishing complete concept of garage membership and replace it by "regular member of e.V" or whatever | 23:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :nod: some parts of karma system are broken. Hopefully these can be diagnosed and fixed. | 23:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http:/wiki.maemo.org/Karma | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #sorry guys, I'm afk for good now | 23:47 |
| nieldk | DocScrutinizer51, at least not at this point in time, I agree | 23:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma :) | 23:47 |
| RzR | wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Council_Q2_2014/Agenda#Possible_Tasks# Enhance gouverance and democracy | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bullsh't | 23:47 |
| RzR | governance | 23:47 |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05: you said you were out | 23:48 |
| nieldk | DocScrutinizer51, elaborate bul... | 23:48 |
| RzR | ;) | 23:48 |
| RzR | never trust someone who said he's out and still connected ;) | 23:48 |
| * sixwheeledbeast checks his karma | 23:48 | |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05: time for paela ? :) | 23:48 |
| nieldk | RzR dont start | 23:49 |
| RzR | seems he's really out | 23:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | well maybe Karma isn't broken, it's seems I have aquired ~200 karma points in a month | 23:49 |
| nieldk | DocScrutinizer51, have very valid points | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the current very democratic system got established after hundreds of maemo community members discussed the details for months and then voted on it. Why does it need any enhancement now? | 23:49 |
| RzR | really ? mine was broken during months if not year | 23:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Has someone been fixing things in midgard recently | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:50 |
| RzR | then we should let it know | 23:50 |
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| RzR | well i am about to leave | 23:52 |
| RzR | can we list some action for comming week ? | 23:52 |
| RzR | ie: check if the karma system is fixed and communicate to community ? | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | karma algos are basically a arbitrarily chosen system which tries to calculate community member contribution and activity. They are known to be imperfect. That's not a major issue though | 23:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :nod: check karma would be good, see the Karma page for list of items | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we probably can get a status report of what parts in karma system work and which are flawed | 23:54 |
| nieldk | good, Agreed | 23:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | note: it may take several days if not weeks to update any Karma scores. | 23:54 |
| RzR | ok for me | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whzen e.g. wiki edits don't count for karma, this doesn't mean whole karma system is completely flawed and worthless | 23:55 |
| RzR | if it's not frozen that's should be known | 23:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | RzR: it's definitely not completely frozen and hadn't been for a while. | 23:56 |
| nieldk | yes, we can check it works as intended | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually aiui council is free to redefine/improve/fix karma cyalculation algos | 23:56 |
| RzR | for the logs : http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma | 23:56 |
| xes | "fix" is just a word of 3 letters, nothing related with 4 servers with at least 3 generation of crossed scripts and fantasy tweaks to calculate karma... | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all karma is just a means to define an electorate and eligibility for council | 23:57 |
| RzR | xes: so as a tech voice what's your position on this karma thing ? | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: you think it's hard to kick out wiki edits from karma calculation? I don't think so | 23:58 |
| xes | the hard part is to understand which part is obsoltete and which one is not running due a problem or missing configuration | 23:59 |
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