| DocScrutinizer05 | since maemo infra (the hardware) is an asset that legally is owned by HiFo, but it is meant to provide services that are part of what council's stewardship is supposed to take care of, the agreement been that HiFo instructs/empowers/permits/delegates (to) council the daily operational business like (finding and) appointing maintainers for the services (e.g. wiki, autobuilder, tmo, etc) and only for the sysops (the absolute masters | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | of everything) council _suggests_ and HiFo appoints. For the maintainers HiFo has a veto right when there's reasonable concern about one maintainer. However HiFo has no word in what and how techstaff (= sysops + maintainers) does to keep the services running - again except when any of them does something rogue which HiFo would be liable for, in which case HiFo may instruct council and worst case even sysops to stop/fix that | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlawful activity or situation | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Beyond this procedere sketched above, there's no "coop" between HiFo and council. HiFo (board) takes care about the assets, council about the project, and board reports to council about progress and status of the asset domain, while council may request "things" from board, like financing some activity council decided is needed for whatever reason (meetings and travel costs for those, or some commercial software council - after | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | discussion with community - thinks might be needed, for giving 2 examples) | 00:34 |
| *** peterleinchen_ has quit IRC | 00:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Particularly HiFo board can deny stuff that council asked for, or instruct council/techstaff to do or not do something, ONLY based on legal concerns. While council can forbid board to do any expense (unless legally mandatory) based on council's notion of what's to community's benefit and what's not. | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/expense/change in asset status/ | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the simplified scheme is that HiFo board does any activity only on request by council | 00:58 |
| rZr | back | 01:05 |
| rZr | DocScrutinizer05, i supose the meeting is over now ? | 01:09 |
| *** kolp has quit IRC | 01:27 | |
| * rZr added links to log at http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Council_Q2_2014/Agenda#Council_Meeting_Minutes | 01:42 | |
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| Win7Mac | hi! | 01:59 |
| Win7Mac | sorry for being late | 01:59 |
| Win7Mac | While joerg STILL wonders what maemo council has in common with an open source project, I have to point out that all his | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | above statements are is HIS personal POV. I urge all other councilors to make up their own mind about how this community may survive, | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | respectively should be handled and governed. | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | And NO, HiFo/MC eV is not simply councils' cashier, as much as joerg argues/wishes :( | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | HiFo will soon be history and its successor, the Maemo Community e.V. (MC eV), will be the operator of maemo.org and it's board shows | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | resposible/liable for it's activity. | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | Please also note that joerg claims that "the original" Maemo Community and HiFo council didn't really unify, despite the | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | referendum | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1330915 | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | in 2013. | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | He sees "the original" Maemo council as something superior over HiFo council and both shall never be the same. | 02:00 |
| Win7Mac | I believe that we need a new BIG referendum for adopting election rules due to irrecoverable technical issues AND that *respects the fact | 02:01 |
| Win7Mac | that we are no lonnger dealing with a Nokia board but our very community organisation* (and that FINALLY unifies/unites/melds (whatever you prefer to call it) both councils, if joerg REALLY insists...) | 02:01 |
| Win7Mac | This includes a council that rather goes along with the board, as opposed to offending it on every single occasion, as councilor or as | 02:01 |
| Win7Mac | maemo admin... With the MC eV ruleset, everything is prepared to have a working community and rules may very well be changed if need | 02:01 |
| Win7Mac | be. | 02:01 |
| Win7Mac | damn windows teext format... | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please stop telling bullshit! | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | re: >><Win7Mac> Please also note that joerg claims that "the original" Maemo Community and HiFo council didn't really unify,<< | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ff | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you obviously fogot that it been me who drove the whole unification | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while you had no idea of what's going on, back at that time | 02:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and sorry, I'm not offending "the board", I'm maybe offending single menbers who deny the concept of a democratic community that elects a council as their ultimate representative | 02:07 |
| Win7Mac | fine, that the outcome of "your" referendum? solely election-rules set the same? | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please read the posts and meeting logs | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I refuse to argue with you any longer - it's absolutely futile | 02:08 |
| Win7Mac | true, then please explain to rest of council... | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all your efforts to belittle/abolish the council or overrule it by a board that according to *aour* made up definition is greater and more powerful than community's elected representatibves - the council - will be futile as well | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/aour/your/ | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and your spreading lies about what I allegedly think or said doesn't help your case either | 02:11 |
| Win7Mac | I may look those quotes up if you wish... ;) | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now I guess it's time to leave the channel again, open the curtain for fairy tales like every time | 02:12 |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has left #maemo-meeting | 02:12 | |
| Win7Mac | please feel free to quote my statements in the meeting-minutes if you wish | 02:14 |
| Win7Mac | joergs' take on council responsibility: <<DocScrutinizer05: "council is not subject to directives from HiFo or any other entity">> link: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-07-16.log.html#t2014-07-16T03:09:30 and http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-07-16.log.html#t2014-07-16T03:28:25 | 02:44 |
| Win7Mac | joergs' take on the referendum: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-07-16.log.html#t2014-07-16T03:21:21 | 02:44 |
| Win7Mac | joergs' statement about HiFo as communitys' cashier only: <<DocScrutinizer05: "...HiFo board (community's cashier) supposed to execute what council asks for... http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-07-29.log.html#t2014-07-29T23:57:50 | 02:44 |
| Win7Mac | Please everybody deliberate for youself and don't fall for some sweet words of "community demoracy" where joerg tries to position himself as the only true defender of maemo community... Ignoring reality and with a commercial interest in maemo... | 02:50 |
| Win7Mac | WE are the community AND the organisation. One can't go without the other, we NEED to stop offending each other! | 02:54 |
| Win7Mac | The MC eV offers a solid base to do so | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thanks for that tale-telling statement | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | one might think you were a bit mistaken about your own role and power as a member of board | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | let's see if your plot 'to correct things' will pan out | 02:57 |
| Win7Mac | relax, I'm gone soon... | 02:58 |
| Win7Mac | But please make use of the opportunities provided! | 02:59 |
| Win7Mac | joergs' statement about the relevance of the 2 councils: <<DocScrutinizer05: "referendum ... That didn't install any nonsensical superiority of HiFo over council. And your e.V. is completely unrelated to council unless you accept the maemo community council including the rules it follows to be an entity of your e.V.">> link: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-06-12.log.html#t2014-06-12T22:23:30 | 03:07 |
| Win7Mac | ^^ that meeting-log actually is a good lecture to grasp joergs mind and POV, makes me puke | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fine! a lil puking will help to get rid of the alcohol. | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you can bitch all you want, I never said there are supposed to be two councils and when eV refuses to accept the only council as the ruling entity then your eV has a problem. YOU said that the eV rules are 100% in line with the only existing council rules which got unified between council and HiFo by a referendum | 03:27 |
| Win7Mac | yes, and we adopt to the new situation in all regards. | 03:29 |
| Win7Mac | *we need to adopt... | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | your whole plot to make eV grab power and abolish council is just too obvious | 03:29 |
| Win7Mac | aha... | 03:30 |
| Win7Mac | me grabbing power..., you're funny | 03:30 |
| Win7Mac | I'm OUT! | 03:30 |
| Win7Mac | NOT part of MC eV besides being founding member | 03:31 |
| Win7Mac | ...not part of board | 03:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >><Win7Mac>joergs' statement about the relevance of the 2 councils: <<DocScrutinizer05: "referendum ... That didn't install any nonsensical superiority of HiFo over council. And your e.V. is completely unrelated to council unless you accept the maemo community council including the rules it follows to be an entity of your e.V.">> link: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-06-12.log.html#t2014-06-12T22:23:30 | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^ that meeting-log actually is a good lecture to grasp joergs mind and POV, makes me puke<< A pity that this guy doesn't grok a single word of his own post, it clearly does NOT state that there are any two councils. Damn annoying he's not around anymore to call him out for his lies he's spreading about me | 04:40 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: please stop the vendetta, I have to admit that win7 is sometimes pouring oil in the fire but reading your response is even less amusing - council is not the ruling entity - never was and never will be. Please, I am begging you to step back from any personal fights. You made your point clear and I was actually surprised about the first explanation you gave in the meeting - everything afterwards got rendered to bullshit. From a | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see, that's one of the reasons why I don't agree with you as well. | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council IS the only ruling entity | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you seem to be comletely unable to accept that fact | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo is the CASHIER of community, nothing else, nothing more | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and yet another thing that you and win7mac have in common: you're spreading obvious lies about me. And I HATE that | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's no vendetta *I* started | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I for sure won't stop it, giving in | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why you constantly try to blame me for a "last man standing" behavior. I take that as compliment | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I won't bend over to *your* take on things which evidently been and is wrong, so many times | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even you yourself said multiple times that even the e.V. is supposed to execute what council is deciding. So what else than *the only ruling entity* is council then? | 11:21 |
| chem|st | you have no clue about how a foundation or an eV works right? | 11:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look, the council been in existence before any HiFo got invented, and even back then Nokia already delegated all decisions about community to council | 11:22 |
| chem|st | they delegated means they had the power to do so... not the other way round | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and HiFo clearly been invented to be the entity that holds legal responsibility and manages the assets. Nobody *thought* about the HiFo guys starting to grab power and bitching at council and trying to fight and belittle it | 11:24 |
| chem|st | the council is one entity of the eV and the whole system works on a basis "what is best for the community" and not what council rules... | 11:24 |
| chem|st | any council rulings can be denied by the general assembly, any time | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a pretty waird and mad idea on how stuff works | 11:25 |
| chem|st | that is what you voted for and signed off and are bound to | 11:26 |
| chem|st | just to remind you of that | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I don't see any "general assembly" mentioned in http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? I signed off a car purchase contract last week. does this mean council and maemo community owns a car now? | 11:28 |
| chem|st | if you hand over the invoice and board agrees on the purchase yes | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you won't redefine the council rules or the way council is meant to represent the community | 11:29 |
| chem|st | I do not see any "we rule them all" either | 11:29 |
| chem|st | the only council rules we have are the election procedures | 11:29 |
| chem|st | the "Council_work" pages are a collection and nothing set in stone | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo accepted council (the ONE council!) as his own council, and clearly even woody been convinced that HiFo is only cashier of community and not entitled to decide anything | 11:31 |
| chem|st | that is the difference between what it legally is and what we used it for... | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aha. says chemist and then starts to redefine the council duties and rules to his very own liking | 11:31 |
| chem|st | I did not redefine anything, you started to claim that council is the one to rule them all and that is just bullshit | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no sir, YOU are the one who wants to be in control of everything and actually managed to be in more positions than anybody else, and community starts to frown upon that. | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now you start to try and become chief sysop of techstaff and belittle council in favor of any HiFo or e.V. entity you are a member of | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are several guys even in techstaff that simply won't obey | 11:34 |
| chem|st | I never said I want to be chief sysop, I never requested to be and I will not request or accept this position - who is spreading lies now? | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you acted like it | 11:35 |
| chem|st | no I did not | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course you did, and do | 11:36 |
| chem|st | I did not ask any sysop for access to any machine ever | 11:36 |
| chem|st | apart of talk | 11:36 |
| chem|st | that may change but for another reason... | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who was it to talk Falk into installing new off site backup by insinuating this was an agreed upon and discussed decision? | 11:37 |
| chem|st | ah yeah the backupmachine, sure I have access to that | 11:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who was it who spread lies about what Falk allegedly said? or is Falk lying when he denies he ever said the stuff about me that you cite him with | 11:38 |
| chem|st | so we are still about the backup machine, the move was agreed upon HiFo Board and is a technical measure and has nothing to do with Council, you on the other hand were discharged from your position and are still refusing to "hand over the keys" | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | No Sir, it's YOU who shows this attitude of using brute force any any means that seem appropriate to you, incl spreading lies, to get stuff done *your* way | 11:40 |
| chem|st | ? what did I say that falk said? | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read chanlogs | 11:41 |
| chem|st | quote or die! | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shut op or die! | 11:41 |
| * chainsawbike sighs | 11:42 | |
| chem|st | what I did was behind "your" back only, everyone else was informed btw (xes was left out as I thought falk told him, I appologized to him personally) | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hahaha | 11:43 |
| chainsawbike | why everytime i look at this channel DocScrutinizer05 and <Varous other parties> are attacking each other with often petty and childish remarks? | 11:44 |
| *** rZr is now known as RzR | 11:44 | |
| chainsawbike | this in no way will help grow and nurture a community | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but thanks that you cobfess to do thinks behind people's back, particularly behind the back of those people who are elected or appointed to decide upon that stuff you do instead of them | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chainsawbike: I'm not interested in a community governed by emperor chem|st | 11:45 |
| chainsawbike | please instead of fighting accept what happened and discuss ways to prevent the issue re-occurring | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I guess this single time even estel would agree | 11:46 |
| chainsawbike | throwing s#$t at each other will not solve anything | 11:46 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: you are discharged from that position not only because you were trying to get funds from HiFo to pay anonymous entities for backup | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not trying to *solve* anything, I defeat a powergrab by chemist | 11:46 |
| chem|st | no you are not defeating my powergrab, you are defeating your position that is a huge difference! | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they were "anonymous" only to you, and not even that | 11:47 |
| chainsawbike | ^^ there is an issue - how about all of hi-fo and council get together and decide who is responsible for what? | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no, unlike you I got elected 2 weeks ago, depite myself strongly dicouraging electorate to do so, by clearly stating that I don't want to spend more than 30 min per week for that shit | 11:49 |
| chem|st | you did not understand that HiFo was forced to act... you started to defend yourself when you should have surrendered silently, noone would hold a grudge - now that you started burning oilfields... you have to live with it | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to me that tells a story about what electorate thinks abot what I'm doing and fighting for | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm burning oil fields?? HAHA | 11:50 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, actually i suspect they just voted for who got the most publicity | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clearly not, chainsawbike. See juiceme's result which first time been higher than mine | 11:51 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: you knew you get reelected that is why you ran again... | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: stop telling shit about you knowing why I did something! | 11:51 |
| chem|st | why did you stand for election if you did not want to get elected? | 11:52 |
| chem|st | electorate was large enough already | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because I've seen a lot of unexperienced candidates that are still prone to fail for your propaganda and lies | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and please wiki electorate | 11:53 |
| chem|st | so you tell everything said about you are lies... | 11:53 |
| chem|st | ehrm the otherway round... | 11:53 |
| chem|st | enough nominees | 11:54 |
| chainsawbike | 1. how can you move foward? | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, pretty much all YOU spread about me are in fact lies | 11:55 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, as i said throwing S@#T will achieve nothing, please stop doing it | 11:56 |
| chem|st | so that you are discharged and refuse to leave techstaff is a lie? | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chainsawbike: 1.: by continuing to fight tendencies in HiFo and it's successor to belittle and ignore council and grab power that's never been assigned and never meant to be at HiFo | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: evidently yes | 11:57 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, ok, can you please give me one SOLID example of _ | 11:58 |
| chem|st | you got a nice thank you for your service email... asking you to return the "keys" - that is a discharge | 11:58 |
| chainsawbike | Hifo ignoring council | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a) HiFo cannot force anybody to "leave techstaff", obviously even you idea of what "techstaff" means is completely flawed. And b) I never got discharged | 11:58 |
| chem|st | and how you acted afterwards reflects that you very understood that | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and c) I'm evidently NOT memeber of techstaff anymore. Thank God for that! | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and your fucking idiotic approach "to return the keys" is simply mere bullshit, on which you base your accusation that I refuse to do any handover. There are no keys to handover | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's simply our sysops not accepting YOU to take over my role of coordiating and consulting them | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you never groked how admin/techstaff works | 12:01 |
| chainsawbike | ok, where is it written that council controls techstaff? i personally think this belongs more in the legal entity domain | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still you rushed in and try to redefine everything | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chainsawbike: this been *officially* agreed between HiFo and council | 12:02 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, where? | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in a meeting | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at times when chemist excelled by absence | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are meeting minutes citing this | 12:02 |
| chainsawbike | so its in a log somewere? | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read HiFo meeting minutes | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | something chemist could profit from as well | 12:04 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, this >> "<DocScrutinizer05> at times when chemist excelled by absence" is childish and will only make the situation worse, please stop it | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, this highlights a very relevant aspect of this dispute | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chemist trying to redefine agreements that council/me had with a HiFo that never heard of chemist at that time | 12:06 |
| chainsawbike | *sigh* there may be a valid point there but please express it in a way that is not blatantly offensive | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm more than offended by chem|st's constant spreading lies about me | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so an occasional harsh tone in a reply will sneak in | 12:07 |
| chainsawbike | yes, please stop throwing s@#t back and forth, it only aggravates the situation | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not going to take shit that gets thrown at me. I'll throw it back | 12:09 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, that is very childish | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, this is the only way shit doesn't suffocate you eventually | 12:09 |
| chainsawbike | honestly i am very disappointed you outright said that | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when somebody stating lies about me, I will loudly reject and correct that | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | each lie that stands unanswered becomes somebody else's truth and gets perpetuated | 12:11 |
| chainsawbike | yes felel free to rebuke what is false, but spreading more lies and innuendo is stupid and childish | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then tell chem|st to stop telling bullshit aka lies | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no more shit in the air. I will NOT come up with new one | 12:12 |
| chainsawbike | will do | 12:12 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I tried to cover your ass more than once, I even tried to get you paid for the backup-service... is that a lie too? | 12:14 |
| chainsawbike | anyway techstaff - you seem to be making the most noise regarding this so would you mind getting the relevant agreement regarding techstaff and putting it in the wiki or something so we can start writing formal rules that both entities can sign off? | 12:14 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, ^^ | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: basically yes, also a lie | 12:18 |
| chem|st | ok thank you | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while initially you acted reasonable, you turned around and fscked everybody a few days later | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I honestly can't recall you "covering my ass" ever | 12:19 |
| chem|st | yes, HiFo had to... instead of clearing the smokes in a backchannel - the fight and accusations went public record... | 12:20 |
| chem|st | and it wasn't me who triggered defenses | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aha | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dream on | 12:21 |
| chem|st | ? | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or ask others than me: thedead, brkn, falk, xes | 12:22 |
| chainsawbike | chem|st, DocScrutinizer05, please stop dredging up old sores - it only seems to cause more heated arguments | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think you will find many friends there | 12:22 |
| chainsawbike | we want to _SOLVE_ the issue not determine who was the "biggest butthead" | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chainsawbike: there IS NO issue, except chemist trying to empower HiFo to sth it never been meant to be. and win7mac assisting in that | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while I wonder why win7mac even speaks up as if he was an authoritative voice of HiFo and then claims he's not involved anymore | 12:26 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, ok so get that meeting minutes, write some formal rules, discuss them with the final goal being agree and implement them | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why wrute more formal rules? can't those guys simply read meeting minutes and ask those who were involved when any doubts remain? | 12:27 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: you need some kind of documentation, don't expect people to search through meetingminutes written before they were even born... | 12:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why doesn't chem|st ask *woody* why will tell him that HiFo been meant as cashier of community and nothing else, and woody agreed on joining HiFo to stop Rob from turning stuff head down on that | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/why/who/ | 12:29 |
| chem|st | I know that... | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you obviously still deny it | 12:30 |
| chainsawbike | formal rules will help prevent disagreements like this | 12:31 |
| chem|st | you are talking about "one to rule them all" and I tell you how it legaly is - nothing more, that we all agreed on having the legal entities only to manage accounts and contracts is a completely different thing | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I can't see how you can ignore the plain logic that council is only ruling entity when HiFo doesn't rule | 12:31 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, are you willing to help discuss, finalize and implement formal rules regarding techstaff? | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that HiFo is NOT supposed to overrule any council decision as long as that decision isn't unlowful or rogue | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chainsawbike: those rules got implemented long ago - IN and AMONG TECHSTAFF | 12:33 |
| chainsawbike | were are theu written? | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chemist bullied me out of the position that got invented by HiFo and council to implement those rules. Now I shall help implementing new rules? sorry, nope | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for a best effort on writing thiose rules down, see my posts here in thus channel | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as far as those rules are relevant for HiFo | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and council | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what got agreed upon | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you want the long version, read meeting minutes and council/hifo blogposts and tmo posts and whatnot | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now my 30min for this week are definitely eaten up | 12:37 |
| chainsawbike | ok so the current isue as i see it is that the agreed upon rules regarding techstaff and how they are managed is not formally defined, instead are buried in years of history | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I managed alost 2 years to keep shit running and implement a working technical organization that does a great job to continue keeping it running. And I'm fed up with guys like chem|st now rushing over all of it and trying to teach everybody that what's been there is shit and now we do it differently, just out of some childish whim of guys like chem|st | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | almost* | 12:40 |
| chainsawbike | this is causing people to not fully understand who is responsible for what - formally defining this in an easily accessible place would prevent this | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and honestly I'm out of that subject of techstaff, despite the sysops asking me to stay and refusing to accept chemist trying to take over. But I cannot bother any longer, I received too much kicks in the ass for a "thank you" by guys who gone delusional | 12:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the damage done is almost killing community and techstaff | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's amazing how techstaff stll struggles on, *despite* all this mess thrown at them by chemist (and others) | 12:44 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, do you think that defining this formally wil help? are you willing to co-operate were needed ( as you role in council )? | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | definitely not, on all of your questions | 12:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm way beyond all this | 12:44 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: as you are accusing me personal of throwing things at techstaff... what did I throw? | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask techstaff, maybe they will answer. I'm NOT techstaff anymore, despite you stating otherwise | 12:46 |
| chainsawbike | DocScrutinizer05, do you give me permission to quote you on that? | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? | 12:46 |
| chainsawbike | specifically this: <DocScrutinizer05> definitely not, on all of your questions | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 12:47 |
| chainsawbike | ok, thanks | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever you want. I'm just telling you that I'm not willing to spend more than 30min per week on all council stuff, and that I don't think defining those rules on an abstract level can even get done and agreed upon now, not to consider if it would help | 12:48 |
| chainsawbike | ok, i will try anyway :) | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st already damaged those rules into oblivion anyway, by simply and constantly ignoring them | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think you can re-establish them by trying to write them down now in a concise way | 12:49 |
| chem|st | ? | 12:51 |
| chainsawbike | that why they are written, discussed, edited, discussed, edited, etc etc, then finalized and agreed to | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | techstaff thinks HiFo gone mad and so techstaff tries to steer clear of any contact to HiFo. And I'm out though constantly sysops query me on what to do. My answer is regularly a suggestion what I *would* do, but telling them that they are the highest instance inb techstaff now and it's up to them | 12:51 |
| chem|st | may I quote that? | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop asking silly questions, it's logged in chanlog | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chainsawbike: http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure#Steering may help | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though it's only of historical relevance now that chemist nuked all that | 13:03 |
| chem|st | yeah blame everything on me, I can take it! | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | atrribution where due | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>[2014-07-30 Wed 10:43:16] <chem|st> what I did was behind "your" back<< | 13:07 |
| chem|st | lol... | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | leaves to add: ...and behind the back of xes (2nd sysop), and cheating on falk (1st sysop) on the nature of the action to be taken and the background/rationale | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Falk clearly thought this been discussed with the rest of the team and particularly me | 13:10 |
| chem|st | ah, what other team, that is xes... do we have any more primary sysops I may need to know of? | 13:11 |
| chem|st | iirc I asked falk explicitly to leave you in the blind | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what you need to know of is the way techstaff works. You not even got a clue what it *is* | 13:11 |
| chem|st | board was informed | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | board has no saying in technical details. They insisted in that, irrevocably delegating stuff to council | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too bad this happened before your time | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and council evidently NOT been informed | 13:13 |
| chem|st | you where not informed, only you | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even when that was true (which I dubt) it wouldn't make things right. You still acted rogue | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually so rogue that it would still suffice as a reason to dismiss *you* from any position in maemo | 13:16 |
| chem|st | go ahead | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, you go ahead and turn maemo into your litlle kingdom. I don't care anymore, just council you won't conquer as long as I'm member of it | 13:18 |
| chem|st | when I asked about the offsite backup you want get paid for I was aksed "what offsite backup we do not have any yet" | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you yourself admitted that you used it, for tmo | 13:20 |
| chem|st | who is in cahrge of the backups? | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pfff, not me anymore | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out, you know? | 13:21 |
| chem|st | I used skeiron in the first few days before falk setup the backupsystem | 13:22 |
| chem|st | who was in charge of the backup back then? | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you did a hell of a job to nuke all that organizational structure that used to work as long as you weren't involved | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you used what? skeiron? what's that? | 13:22 |
| chem|st | nuke what? I did not blame you to fund skeiron, I did not start a fucking public flamewar so dont put that on me! | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I funded skeiron? who told you that? | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and btw I may fund whatever I like, from my private purse | 13:24 |
| chem|st | lookup legal liability and for your own sake read things properly "blame you to fund" | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I fund the cu clux clan? who knows | 13:24 |
| chem|st | forget it... I am out... | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | byebye | 13:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anatomy of a lie: >>I did not blame you to fund skeiron<< While "I didn't blame" is maybe true (or not), the whole statement implies that I funded skeiron which is a lie that flies under the radar in this statement | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then in very next post threatening me about liability arising from such lie, and same time bashing me for allegedly not being able to parse a sentence correctly | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which emphasizes the lie and already exploits it to scare me and do damage to me | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and all this after I announced I will take legal steps against anybody again stating publicly that I was any related to skeiron | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which btw been one of the huge flamewars between me and HiFo | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again, for the record: I'm NOT related to skeiron, I'm not owning anything of that name nor did I administrate or run such thing | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st exhibits thorough ignorance when he confuses the off site backup of maemo with any community driven mirror server of whatever name | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he of course used maemo's legal offsite backup facility, not any "skeiron" | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and based on such level of ignorance about the internals of maemo infra and the organizational structures and procedures he tries to rush over it and redefine stuff to his liking | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | overruling any sysop and any agreement between council and original HiFo | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw it might be worth asking ivgalvez and timsamoff about what been agreed between council, HiFo, and me | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of making up your own ideas how stuff should get handled and interpreted | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just in case you don't trust my reports and still ahve questions after rwding the HiFo meeting minutes and related tmo posts etc | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reading* | 15:50 |
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