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| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: chem|st: up to current council to evaluate validity of candidates. I suggest we finally guess when it comes to karma, since karma evicently is borked and not suited to get used according to the election rules | 21:37 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | evidently* | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. if a candidate has too little karma, I think it's in best interest of the rules when current council decides if the candidate nevertheless is entitled to run | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as we decide unanimously, there shouldn't be any problem | 21:39 |
| *** xes has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course when a candidate already has enough karma, there's no problem, probably not even with nomination deadline or form of application (ML, tmo, whatever) | 21:41 |
| chem|st | nice setup of ##maemo-admin now, cannot even join when identified | 21:55 |
| chem|st | xes: are you available? | 21:55 |
| xes | hi chem|st. Just giving a quick overview to talk.m.o | 21:57 |
| chem|st | xes: you giving to someone? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: I guess nothing changed with ##maemo-admin setup | 21:57 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: Cannot join to channel ##maemo-admin (You must be invited) | 21:58 |
| chem|st | NickServ(NickServ@services.)- You are already logged in as chem|st. | 21:58 |
| xes | chem|st: ? uh? I'm looking at the general situation of that server | 21:59 |
| chem|st | xes: I am at the point of shutting down the forums | 21:59 |
| chem|st | just copied the folder cmdline is waiting for 'enter' to backup the db, browser waits for a click to shutdown frontend | 22:01 |
| xes | chem|st: please, let's proceed the maintenance in the admin channel | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-07-01 Tue 21:01:31] *** You set invitation mask $a:chem|st. | 22:04 |
| rZr | hi | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi rZr | 22:05 |
| *** rZr is now known as RzR | 22:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one hour early ;-) | 22:05 |
| xes | hi rZr | 22:05 |
| RzR | /exec date -u | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: Di 1. Jul 19:05:40 UTC 2014 | 22:05 |
| juiceme | hi | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi! | 22:14 |
| juiceme | join ##maemo-admin | 22:15 |
| * sixwheeledbeast passes by and waves from a distance :D | 22:18 | |
| RzR | juiceme, u need to invite us | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 22:26 |
| RzR | * Cannot join ##maemo-admin (Channel is invite only). | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##maemo-admin is techstaff's internal channel, no need to join that for non-maintainers | 22:26 |
| juiceme | RzR, neither can I :) | 22:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi folks! | 23:00 |
| peterleinchen_ | jit | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | today we have a slightly special meeting, since leaving council welcomes candidates and introduces them into what it means to be council | 23:01 |
| Win7Mac | Hi! | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | leaving council also has to organize further proceeding of elections | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and to approve candidates' eligibility | 23:02 |
| RzR | hi maemoers | 23:02 |
| juiceme | o/ hiya all | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, due to time restrictions I announced during last time you guys elected me to council, I wasn't able to do any of the needed data gathering yet. So I can't say whom we got for candidates, nor what's their status regarding eligibility | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically leaving council (and traditionally chair of it) checks garage account, and karma, and application (on ML usually) of each candidate, to approve them | 23:05 |
| *** tmo_TomJ is now known as TomJ | 23:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since karma is defect on our infra, we will have to use other means to decide about that part | 23:06 |
| *** TomJ is now known as tmo_TomJ | 23:06 | |
| RzR | how many has a low karma ? | 23:06 |
| RzR | have | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: seems you already checked who self-nominated? | 23:06 |
| chem|st | o/ | 23:07 |
| juiceme | yes, I have done some checking | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: I have no idea. I don't even know who's applying for council | 23:07 |
| chem|st | RzR: 3 iirc, we are checking that atm | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi! | 23:07 |
| chem|st | tmo_TomJ: what is your garage link? | 23:07 |
| RzR | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1431468&postcount=52 | 23:08 |
| tmo_TomJ | The acct name's TomJ: will check link. | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but before we run into candidate approval, we (leaving council) maybe should explain what's this council stuff all about, and answer any questions the candidates in spe might have | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically it's very simple: all tasks and rules for council and councilors are written down in maemo wiki | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process which we're just about to proceed here | 23:10 |
| chem|st | tmo_TomJ: have your karma, can you edit your post on tmo and add the link please | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's been a change that's not completely represented in the rules and explanations on those wiki pages: Nokia "hit the sack" and all the assets are "owned" by HiFo now (or are supposed to be, sooner or later) | 23:13 |
| chem|st | that is actually for everyone, link your profiles within the nomination-post you made | 23:13 |
| chem|st | please | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo is community's cashier, while council is community's "board" | 23:13 |
| *** dirkvl has joined #maemo-meeting | 23:14 | |
| chem|st | call it representatives please, board is board, council is council | 23:14 |
| dirkvl | hello? | 23:14 |
| chem|st | hi | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think during previous elections there's always been a wiki page where every candidate introduces her/hinmself | 23:14 |
| RzR | dirkvl, welcome | 23:14 |
| dirkvl | thanks! | 23:15 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: sixwheeled did set that up I think | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 23:15 |
| RzR | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014/Candidate_declarations | 23:15 |
| juiceme | dirkvl, welcome :) | 23:15 |
| RzR | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014 | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually we do a lot of things guided by "prior art" | 23:15 |
| tmo_TomJ | Do Council members have financial responsibilities? | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 23:16 |
| peterleinchen_ | question for later: what about finances of maemo? | 23:16 |
| chem|st | RzR: thank you, you are fast ;) | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | financial stuff is HiFo (community's cashier) | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council suggests on stuff HiFo needs to pay for, for example | 23:17 |
| tmo_TomJ | What is the interface between Council and HiFo? | 23:17 |
| peterleinchen_ | I know, but council should know too | 23:17 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen_: I do not have exact numbers at hand but some 4 digits | 23:17 |
| juiceme | well, currently, until the HiFo's duties are taken over by Maemo e.V. | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo can veto when something council suggests is odd or fishy | 23:17 |
| chem|st | tmo_TomJ: interface? email? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmo_TomJ: council is also accepted by HiFo to be their council as well, so the 2interface" on a formal level is: council is also HiFo's council, and on a technical level the interface is "talk" ;-) | 23:19 |
| chem|st | tmo_TomJ: council is interfacing community and hifo | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for council's role inside HiFo please see the HiFo bylaws | 23:20 |
| tmo_TomJ | Roger byelaws. | 23:20 |
| dirkvl | this all sound incredible interesting, but my gf is gonna pull me into the shower in about 5 min | 23:21 |
| dirkvl | can i fire off some questions in the meantime? | 23:21 |
| chem|st | tmo_TomJ: council has no financial or legal responsibility | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 23:22 |
| chem|st | dirkvl: shoot | 23:22 |
| dirkvl | for how long it the council? | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 6 months | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you have to do what "we" do today | 23:22 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:22 |
| dirkvl | and this starts? | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and were doing suring last 6 or 8 weeks | 23:22 |
| juiceme | immediately after election | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with election | 23:23 |
| dirkvl | which is next week | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 23:23 |
| dirkvl | okay crazy | 23:23 |
| Win7Mac | in 2 weeks | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that | 23:23 |
| dirkvl | is it a problem if i was in the middle of the desert for the rest of july? | 23:23 |
| juiceme | the new council decides when to meet, we have had this slot, tuestays 20:00 UTC | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dirkvl: that doesn't help, but it's not a killer issue | 23:24 |
| juiceme | probably no problem, just it would be nice if you were able to vote | 23:24 |
| dirkvl | yes... no internet | 23:24 |
| dirkvl | 1G maybe | 23:24 |
| juiceme | if you can check your email and access a webpage, you can vote | 23:25 |
| juiceme | (text based, btw) | 23:25 |
| chem|st | dirkvl: that is only 2 weeks... I be on vacation the first two^^ | 23:25 |
| dirkvl | cool | 23:25 |
| dirkvl | ok | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I again want to make sure everybody understands what council is all about. It's meant to keep community alive, by organizing stuff, and deciding when decisions are needed | 23:25 |
| dirkvl | yes that is the thing | 23:26 |
| chem|st | good ;) | 23:26 |
| dirkvl | i have not the faintest idea what it is | 23:26 |
| dirkvl | would love to help out though | 23:26 |
| juiceme | yes. and there are _no_ special perks, no rewards etc. We have no corporate backing by Nokia | 23:26 |
| juiceme | just the feeling that you'll be doing a good thing | 23:27 |
| dirkvl | coolio | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no needed skills, except a sane mind and dedication to maemo, and understanding community and how it "works" | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and a readiness to be available on IRC and on tmo and in ML | 23:28 |
| dirkvl | no coding skillz needed?! nice, i have none | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council doesn't code | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council must understand what's a good package and what's a package that has to get nuked off the repos for one reason or another | 23:29 |
| juiceme | if coding is needed, council can delegate that | 23:29 |
| dirkvl | ok, i have to go | 23:29 |
| juiceme | well, actually I would not know that... | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council must understand how to discuss such stuff publicly and then how to find a decision that's fair and helps maemo cimmunity | 23:30 |
| juiceme | okay, have a nice hot shower, dirkvl :) | 23:30 |
| dirkvl | haha thanks | 23:30 |
| dirkvl | guess there will be some log somewhere | 23:30 |
| dirkvl | adios! | 23:30 |
| juiceme | yes. | 23:30 |
| juiceme | and minutes posted to TMO | 23:30 |
| peterleinchen_ | dirkvl: do not forget to read later http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-07-01.log.html | 23:30 |
| tmo_TomJ | eg: twitter apps that haven't been updated to new APIs and therefore broken shouldn't be in Extras anymore? | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, for the record: who's here? | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please introduce yourself! | 23:31 |
| peterleinchen_ | It's me | 23:31 |
| peterleinchen_ | Peter Leinchen | 23:31 |
| juiceme | I am juiceme, (Jussi Ohenoja) of the current council | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (of candidates, leaving council will follow) | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm joerg_rw aka reisenweber | 23:31 |
| * tmo_TomJ is here | 23:31 | |
| * chem|st is Ruediger Schiller of the current council | 23:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme, chem|st and me are leaving council | 23:32 |
| chainsawbike | i am aaron mcewan | 23:33 |
| chem|st | tmo_TomJ: some like that | 23:33 |
| * RzR is is philc and I accepted nomination yesterday | 23:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmo_TomJ: there are rules about what needs to get deleted from repos. Obsolescence is not a criterion in them | 23:33 |
| *** dirkvl has quit IRC | 23:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | copyright infringement or hazard to users' systems is a criterion, for example | 23:34 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, sixwheeledbeast, dos1 ? | 23:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | o/ | 23:35 |
| * dos1 is a spectator | 23:35 | |
| tmo_TomJ | OK, but I assume Council has discretion to change the criteria (after consulting tmo, lists etc) in order to maintain reputation of repos? | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly | 23:36 |
| Win7Mac | o/ | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, basically maybe, but for sure such decision to change rules needs public discussion with community | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maintain reputation is a nice goal, but pretty fuzzy | 23:36 |
| juiceme | banning illegal packages maintains good reputation | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 23:37 |
| M4rtinK | IMHO making sure that dependencies are not broken is much more important than removing applications that might not be working at the moment | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and reviewing packages that cheated through extras-testing | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: that's a checklist point of extras-testing | 23:38 |
| M4rtinK | and possible optification as much as possible | 23:39 |
| RzR | how is this related to council meeting ? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: that's a checklist point of extras-testing | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 23:39 |
| tmo_TomJ | Possibly a discussion to be had later... | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: we're explaining what's council's duties | 23:39 |
| tmo_TomJ | And RzR beats me to it. | 23:39 |
| juiceme | RzR, you are right, this is just one marginal thing, not probably needed to be discusssed now. | 23:39 |
| M4rtinK | well, just a few points to the TODO list of possible new councilors :) | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: totdo list of new council will get set up when constitutional meeting happens, in a 3 weeks or so | 23:40 |
| juiceme | candidates need to be updated to http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014/Candidate_declarations | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: you keep track of who's our candidates now? | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: could you list them all in one line please? for us all to have them all in one glance | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then somebody updates the wiki page, candidates add their introduction and "advertise themselves" there, and probably juiceme checks them one by one and approves them | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or discusses with rst of leaving council and the candidate when there are problems with their candidatire | 23:43 |
| juiceme | okay, I'll fill in a skeleton there. | 23:45 |
| juiceme | You'll be available to edit it yourself also, of course | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure thing | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks for everybody to participate so far, and welcome to our great brave new candidates | 23:48 |
| RzR | juiceme, I added myself too | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm a tad in a pinch, so when there are more topics to discuss that need my attention, please holler right now :-) | 23:48 |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05, and listed others from tmo | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | great! that's the spirit! :-D | 23:49 |
| juiceme | DocScrutinizer, TomJ, peterleinchen, RzR, Mariusmssj, jackburton, chainsawbike, nieldk, dirkvl | 23:50 |
| juiceme | did I miss anybody? | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a sidenote: I added myself there, up to rest of leaving council to evaluate my eligibility | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | does council agree that for chainsawbike we already ignore the broken karma and accept his nomination? | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: ? | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ? | 23:53 |
| juiceme | hmm, yes, I certainly agree to that. | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DocScrutinizer05: votes yes | 23:53 |
| RzR | only if he describe his motivation :) | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: your consern got noted, but it's not yet your call. Wait a two weeks ;-) | 23:54 |
| juiceme | :) | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ^^^ | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: chainsawbike yes/no? | 23:54 |
| RzR | :-) | 23:54 |
| RzR | or 6months and 2weeks | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or that :-D | 23:55 |
| juiceme | ooo, planning for the next round already | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: could you follow up on chem|st's vote on the only decision we gonna do today? I have to leave now | 23:56 |
| juiceme | AFAIK chem|st already acked on the orga side. | 23:56 |
| juiceme | that counts as "aye" | 23:57 |
| juiceme | he seems to be afk now | 23:57 |
| chem|st | aye | 23:57 |
| juiceme | ya, that's settled then. | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and we (leaving council) should have an extraordinary shor meetin on thursday, to follow up on candidate verification and election proceeding | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | short meeting* | 23:58 |
| juiceme | ok. same time? | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok with that | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ? | 23:58 |
| chem|st | not sure, maybe | 23:58 |
| juiceme | i'll have to put that on my calendar, else i'll forget it in an hour... | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please let us know tomorrow, so we can find a better schedule | 23:59 |
| peterleinchen_ | what about some Nokia connects? are there still someÃ? | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically nope | 23:59 |
| peterleinchen_ | so nothing to deal with them anymore | 23:59 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I am unavailable after that anyways, eligibility was agreed on so far | 23:59 |
| juiceme | I guess some have been in touch with chem|st / techstaff on some things | 23:59 |
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