IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2014-07-01

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DocScrutinizer05juiceme: chem|st: up to current council to evaluate validity of candidates. I suggest we finally guess when it comes to karma, since karma evicently is borked and not suited to get used according to the election rules21:37
DocScrutinizer05I.E. if a candidate has too little karma, I think it's in best interest of the rules when current council decides if the candidate nevertheless is entitled to run21:38
DocScrutinizer05as long as we decide unanimously, there shouldn't be any problem21:39
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DocScrutinizer05of course when a candidate already has enough karma, there's no problem, probably not even with nomination deadline or form of application (ML, tmo, whatever)21:41
chem|stnice setup of ##maemo-admin now, cannot even join when identified21:55
chem|stxes: are you available?21:55
xeshi chem|st. Just giving a quick overview to talk.m.o21:57
chem|stxes: you giving to someone?21:57
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: I guess nothing changed with ##maemo-admin setup21:57
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: Cannot join to channel ##maemo-admin (You must be invited)21:58
chem|stNickServ(NickServ@services.)- You are already logged in as chem|st.21:58
xeschem|st: ? uh? I'm looking at the general situation of that server21:59
chem|stxes: I am at the point of shutting down the forums21:59
chem|stjust copied the folder cmdline is waiting for 'enter' to backup the db, browser waits for a click to shutdown frontend22:01
xeschem|st: please, let's proceed the maintenance in the admin channel22:02
DocScrutinizer05[2014-07-01 Tue 21:01:31] *** You set invitation mask $a:chem|st.22:04
DocScrutinizer05hi rZr22:05
*** rZr is now known as RzR22:05
DocScrutinizer05one hour early ;-)22:05
xeshi rZr22:05
RzR/exec date -u22:05
DocScrutinizer05cmd: Di 1. Jul 19:05:40 UTC 201422:05
juicemejoin ##maemo-admin22:15
* sixwheeledbeast passes by and waves from a distance :D22:18
RzRjuiceme, u need to invite us22:25
RzR* Cannot join ##maemo-admin (Channel is invite only).22:26
DocScrutinizer05##maemo-admin is techstaff's internal channel, no need to join that for non-maintainers22:26
juicemeRzR, neither can I :)22:26
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DocScrutinizer05hi folks!23:00
DocScrutinizer05today we have a slightly special meeting, since leaving council welcomes candidates and introduces them into what it means to be council23:01
DocScrutinizer05leaving council also has to organize further proceeding of elections23:02
DocScrutinizer05and to approve candidates' eligibility23:02
RzRhi maemoers23:02
juicemeo/ hiya all23:03
DocScrutinizer05sorry, due to time restrictions I announced during last time you guys elected me to council, I wasn't able to do any of the needed data gathering yet. So I can't say whom we got for candidates, nor what's their status regarding eligibility23:03
DocScrutinizer05basically leaving council (and traditionally chair of it) checks garage account, and karma, and application (on ML usually) of each candidate, to approve them23:05
*** tmo_TomJ is now known as TomJ23:06
DocScrutinizer05since karma is defect on our infra, we will have to use other means to decide about that part23:06
*** TomJ is now known as tmo_TomJ23:06
RzRhow many has a low karma ?23:06
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: seems you already checked who self-nominated?23:06
juicemeyes, I have done some checking23:07
DocScrutinizer05RzR: I have no idea. I don't even know who's applying for council23:07
chem|stRzR: 3 iirc, we are checking that atm23:07
chem|sttmo_TomJ: what is your garage link?23:07
tmo_TomJThe acct name's TomJ: will check link.23:08
DocScrutinizer05but before we run into candidate approval, we (leaving council) maybe should explain what's this council stuff all about, and answer any questions the candidates in spe might have23:08
DocScrutinizer05basically it's very simple: all tasks and rules for council and councilors are written down in maemo wiki23:09
DocScrutinizer05and which we're just about to proceed here23:10
chem|sttmo_TomJ: have your karma, can you edit your post on tmo and add the link please23:13
DocScrutinizer05there's been a change that's not completely represented in the rules and explanations on those wiki pages: Nokia "hit the sack" and all the assets are "owned" by HiFo now (or are supposed to be, sooner or later)23:13
chem|stthat is actually for everyone, link your profiles within the nomination-post you made23:13
DocScrutinizer05HiFo is community's cashier, while council is community's "board"23:13
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chem|stcall it representatives please, board is board, council is council23:14
DocScrutinizer05I think during previous elections there's always been a wiki page where every candidate introduces her/hinmself23:14
RzRdirkvl, welcome23:14
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: sixwheeled did set that up I think23:15
juicemedirkvl, welcome :)23:15
DocScrutinizer05actually we do a lot of things guided by "prior art"23:15
tmo_TomJDo Council members have financial responsibilities?23:16
peterleinchen_question for later: what about finances of maemo?23:16
chem|stRzR: thank you, you are fast ;)23:16
DocScrutinizer05financial stuff is HiFo (community's cashier)23:16
DocScrutinizer05council suggests on stuff HiFo needs to pay for, for example23:17
tmo_TomJWhat is the interface between Council and HiFo?23:17
peterleinchen_I know, but council should know too23:17
chem|stpeterleinchen_: I do not have exact numbers at hand but some 4 digits23:17
juicemewell, currently, until the HiFo's duties are taken over by Maemo e.V.23:17
DocScrutinizer05HiFo can veto when something council suggests is odd or fishy23:17
chem|sttmo_TomJ: interface? email?23:17
DocScrutinizer05tmo_TomJ: council is also accepted by HiFo to be their council as well, so the 2interface" on a formal level is: council is also HiFo's council, and on a technical level the interface is "talk" ;-)23:19
chem|sttmo_TomJ: council is interfacing community and hifo23:19
DocScrutinizer05for council's role inside HiFo please see the HiFo bylaws23:20
tmo_TomJRoger byelaws.23:20
dirkvlthis all sound incredible interesting, but my gf is gonna pull me into the shower in about 5 min23:21
dirkvlcan i fire off some questions in the meantime?23:21
chem|sttmo_TomJ: council has no financial or legal responsibility23:21
chem|stdirkvl: shoot23:22
dirkvlfor how long it the council?23:22
DocScrutinizer056 months23:22
DocScrutinizer05then you have to do what "we" do today23:22
dirkvland this starts?23:22
DocScrutinizer05and were doing suring last 6 or 8 weeks23:22
juicemeimmediately after election23:22
DocScrutinizer05with election23:23
dirkvlwhich is next week23:23
dirkvlokay crazy23:23
Win7Macin 2 weeks23:23
DocScrutinizer05or that23:23
dirkvlis it a problem if i was in the middle of the desert for the rest of july?23:23
juicemethe new council decides when to meet, we have had this slot, tuestays 20:00 UTC23:23
DocScrutinizer05dirkvl: that doesn't help, but it's not a killer issue23:24
juicemeprobably no problem, just it would be nice if you were able to vote23:24
dirkvlyes... no internet23:24
dirkvl1G maybe23:24
juicemeif you can check your email and access a webpage, you can vote23:25
juiceme(text based, btw)23:25
chem|stdirkvl: that is only 2 weeks... I be on vacation the first two^^23:25
DocScrutinizer05I again want to make sure everybody understands what council is all about. It's meant to keep community alive, by organizing stuff, and deciding when decisions are needed23:25
dirkvlyes that is the thing23:26
chem|stgood ;)23:26
dirkvli have not the faintest idea what it is23:26
dirkvlwould love to help out though23:26
juicemeyes. and there are _no_ special perks, no rewards etc. We have no corporate backing by Nokia23:26
juicemejust the feeling that you'll be doing a good thing23:27
DocScrutinizer05and no needed skills, except a sane mind and dedication to maemo, and understanding community and how it "works"23:27
DocScrutinizer05and a readiness to be available on IRC and on tmo and in ML23:28
dirkvlno coding skillz needed?! nice, i have none23:28
DocScrutinizer05council doesn't code23:28
DocScrutinizer05council must understand what's a good package and what's a package that has to get nuked off the repos for one reason or another23:29
juicemeif coding is needed, council can delegate that23:29
dirkvlok, i have to go23:29
juicemewell, actually I would not know that...23:29
DocScrutinizer05council must understand how to discuss such stuff publicly and then how to find a decision that's fair and helps maemo cimmunity23:30
juicemeokay, have a nice hot shower, dirkvl :)23:30
dirkvlhaha thanks23:30
dirkvlguess there will be some log somewhere23:30
juicemeand minutes posted to TMO23:30
peterleinchen_dirkvl: do not forget to read later
tmo_TomJeg: twitter apps that haven't been updated to new APIs and therefore broken shouldn't be in Extras anymore?23:30
DocScrutinizer05so, for the record: who's here?23:31
DocScrutinizer05please introduce yourself!23:31
peterleinchen_It's me23:31
peterleinchen_Peter Leinchen23:31
juicemeI am juiceme, (Jussi Ohenoja) of the current council23:31
DocScrutinizer05(of candidates, leaving council will follow)23:31
DocScrutinizer05I'm joerg_rw aka reisenweber23:31
* tmo_TomJ is here23:31
* chem|st is Ruediger Schiller of the current council23:32
DocScrutinizer05juiceme, chem|st and me are leaving council23:32
chainsawbikei am aaron mcewan23:33
chem|sttmo_TomJ: some like that23:33
* RzR is is philc and I accepted nomination yesterday 23:33
DocScrutinizer05tmo_TomJ: there are rules about what needs to get deleted from repos. Obsolescence is not a criterion in them23:33
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DocScrutinizer05copyright infringement or hazard to users' systems is a criterion, for example23:34
juicemeWin7Mac, sixwheeledbeast, dos1 ?23:35
* dos1 is a spectator23:35
tmo_TomJOK, but I assume Council has discretion to change the criteria (after consulting tmo, lists etc) in order to maintain reputation of repos?23:35
DocScrutinizer05not exactly23:36
DocScrutinizer05well, basically maybe, but for sure such decision to change rules needs public discussion with community23:36
DocScrutinizer05maintain reputation is a nice goal, but pretty fuzzy23:36
juicemebanning illegal packages maintains good reputation23:37
M4rtinKIMHO making sure that dependencies are not broken is much more important than removing applications that might not be working at the moment23:37
DocScrutinizer05and reviewing packages that cheated through extras-testing23:38
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: that's a checklist point of extras-testing23:38
M4rtinKand possible optification as much as possible23:39
RzRhow is this related to council meeting ?23:39
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: that's a checklist point of extras-testing23:39
tmo_TomJPossibly a discussion to be had later...23:39
DocScrutinizer05RzR: we're explaining what's council's duties23:39
tmo_TomJAnd RzR beats me to it.23:39
juicemeRzR, you are right, this is just one marginal thing, not probably needed to be discusssed now.23:39
M4rtinKwell, just a few points to the TODO list of possible new councilors :)23:39
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: totdo list of new council will get set up when constitutional meeting happens, in a 3 weeks or so23:40
juicemecandidates need to be updated to
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: you keep track of who's our candidates now?23:41
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: could you list them all in one line please? for us all to have them all in one glance23:42
DocScrutinizer05then somebody updates the wiki page, candidates add their introduction and "advertise themselves" there, and probably juiceme checks them one by one and approves them23:43
DocScrutinizer05or discusses with rst of leaving council and the candidate when there are problems with their candidatire23:43
juicemeokay, I'll fill in a skeleton there.23:45
juicemeYou'll be available to edit it yourself also, of course23:46
DocScrutinizer05sure thing23:46
DocScrutinizer05many thanks for everybody to participate so far, and welcome to our great brave new candidates23:48
RzRjuiceme, I added myself too23:48
DocScrutinizer05I'm a tad in a pinch, so when there are more topics to discuss that need my attention, please holler right now :-)23:48
RzRDocScrutinizer05, and listed others from tmo23:48
DocScrutinizer05great! that's the spirit! :-D23:49
juicemeDocScrutinizer, TomJ, peterleinchen, RzR, Mariusmssj, jackburton, chainsawbike, nieldk, dirkvl23:50
juicemedid I miss anybody?23:50
DocScrutinizer05on a sidenote: I added myself there, up to rest of leaving council to evaluate my eligibility23:50
DocScrutinizer05does council agree that for chainsawbike we already ignore the broken karma and accept his nomination?23:53
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: ?23:53
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ?23:53
juicemehmm, yes, I certainly agree to that.23:53
DocScrutinizer05DocScrutinizer05: votes yes23:53
RzRonly if he describe his motivation :)23:53
DocScrutinizer05RzR: your consern got noted, but it's not yet your call. Wait a two weeks ;-)23:54
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ^^^23:54
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: chainsawbike yes/no?23:54
RzRor 6months and 2weeks23:55
DocScrutinizer05or that :-D23:55
juicemeooo, planning for the next round already23:55
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: could you follow up on chem|st's vote on the only decision we gonna do today? I have to leave now23:56
juicemeAFAIK chem|st already acked on the orga side.23:56
juicemethat counts as "aye"23:57
juicemehe seems to be afk now23:57
juicemeya, that's settled then.23:57
DocScrutinizer05ooh, and we (leaving council) should have an extraordinary shor meetin on thursday, to follow up on candidate verification and election proceeding23:57
DocScrutinizer05short meeting*23:58
juicemeok. same time?23:58
DocScrutinizer05ok with that23:58
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ?23:58
chem|stnot sure, maybe23:58
juicemei'll have to put that on my calendar, else i'll forget it in an hour...23:58
DocScrutinizer05please let us know tomorrow, so we can find a better schedule23:59
peterleinchen_what about some Nokia connects? are there still someƃ?23:59
DocScrutinizer05basically nope23:59
peterleinchen_so nothing to deal with them anymore23:59
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I am unavailable after that anyways, eligibility was agreed on so far23:59
juicemeI guess some have been in touch with chem|st / techstaff on some things23:59

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