IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2013-07-16

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JaffaIs Concert-Oh working well for anyone else? I tried signing up, but it doesn't like me21:50
win7macare you on mobile?21:51
JaffaIts Facebook login wants ridiculous levels of permission21:51
JaffaBut I ask for a password reset and it just sends me another "activate your account" email21:52
JaffaHow does it work on mobile (since it seems to require Flash on the desktop)?21:52
chem|stJaffa: it does not like me neither21:52
chem|stborked... I will look for a TS server real quick21:52
win7macyeah, Flash and some javascript21:53
win7mac...needed for concert-oh21:53
win7macnow this is funny, we had that topic already, but i was discussing with myself it seems21:54
JaffaWhat topic?21:55
JaffaI remember you saying you wanted a service which could be used on the N9. I've got my N9 here, how do I use it with Concert-Oh?21:56
win7macwhich audio-service to use21:56
chem|stts public could work...21:56
win7macnot possible on n9!21:56
win7macJaffa_, Concert-Oh not possible on n9!21:57
Jaffawin7mac: Oh, I thought you selected it21:57
chem|styeah screw that, without an asterisk server or a paid service you wont get n9s to join?!21:57
chem|stI can offer TS on a private server if need be21:58
chem|stbut for the next I suggest to setup our own21:58
Jaffachem|st: "TS"?21:58
JaffaFor next time, maybe we should look at something like
Jaffachem|st: Ah, never used it21:58
chem|stusing it for the time it exists...21:59
JaffaTrouble with is that it needs US number. Anyway, one for the mailing list21:59
GeneralAntillesOK, I'm here.21:59
DocScrutinizer05doesn't friggin concertOh allow POTS dial-in?22:00
JaffaAgenda is here: Anyone know how to use the meeting bot (if it's here)?22:00
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: concertoh wont let me sign in...22:00
chem|stso screw that22:00
chem|stwrong email...22:00
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: read my post above!22:00
win7macallow scripts22:00
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: don't you need to sign in there as well?22:01
chem|stat least I needed to verify my identity with something like that with the phone dialpad..22:01
chem|stand register online before the meeting22:01
DocScrutinizer05the conference call services I know allow either DTMF PIN authentication, and/or "invite" by room master22:02
chem|stit is usa... the nsa wants to track everything!22:02
DocScrutinizer05"please speak your name and stand by until room master invites yiu"22:02
Jaffawin7mac: I have scripts enabled, but Concert-Oh won't let me log in. It doesn't give any POTS information to me (without being logged in at least)22:02
chem|stthe need to sign in is screwed already...22:02
Woody14619sorry, was on a call. :P22:03
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles22:03
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Hildon Foundation Board meeting 2013-07-16 at 1700 UTC Agenda: Audio: | Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | livelog at"22:03
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles22:03
chem|sthow about teamviewer?22:03
GeneralAntillesPhone: +1 (412) 717-963322:04
GeneralAntillesPasscode (Guest): 233 134 2422:04
GeneralAntillesPIN: 262 992 494822:04
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: THANKS!!!!22:04
Woody14619concerOh does allow POTS dial-in, but it's a US number.  Long distance for those outside the US unfortunatly. (and for some inside the US.22:04
DocScrutinizer05so what?22:04
DocScrutinizer05refund for your expense22:04
JaffaGoToMeeting provides 30 day trials, with international dial in numbers.22:05
Woody14619lol. :)  For me it's no expense.  Most with cellphones in the US have coast to coast coverage w/ free US calling.22:05
DocScrutinizer05an international call can't be more than $0,50 / minute22:05
GeneralAntillesI have a TeamSpeak server available if we want to use that.22:05
* Jaffa is OK with US number22:05
Woody14619I don't care what we use frankly.  The voice meetings are going to wind up being short now, since it's mainly going to be ageeance on discussion here, yes?22:06
DocScrutinizer05didn't you say you don't even WANT more than max 15min voice, just to utter "I'm ok with this"22:06
JaffaThat's my understanding22:06
GeneralAntillesWoody14619, indeed.22:06
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, +122:06
DocScrutinizer05so what's the problem with international call 3min then?22:07
JaffaNot sure anyone *has* expressed a problem yet...22:07
GeneralAntillesNot included in the agenda is DocScrutinizer05's suggestion to delegate authority to every member so we don't have to meet to decide which brand of toilet paper to buy.22:07
win7macI'd rather go TS than waste money22:07
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: +122:07
DocScrutinizer05win7mac: your suggestion already wastes "money" (since time is money)22:08
chem|stno trolling please22:08
DocScrutinizer05good luck guys!22:08
Jaffawin7mac: Are you on the Concert-Oh? And everyone else can dial in via the POTS details GeneralAntilles shared22:08
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: this been 0 trolling22:09
DocScrutinizer05anyway, good luck and seeya22:09
win7macyes, I'm on the Concert-Oh22:09
GeneralAntillesWell, we're all here, shall we open the meeting?22:09
* Jaffa nods22:10
GeneralAntillesOK, item 1: Formal acceptance of new board members.22:10
Woody14619can someone cut/paste the conceroh link.. I can't seem to find it. :P22:10
GeneralAntilles and /topic22:10
GeneralAntillesSince Woody14619 is the only member present from the previous board, I'd say that falls to him.22:11
Woody14619I accept all elected members as new board members. :)22:11
GeneralAntillesAny objections?22:11
GeneralAntillesRight then, 2. Bank account access and financial details (including any external services in the Foundation's name, e.g.,
win7macI accept22:11
JaffaWe know there are some, based on the random Amazon emails :-)22:12
GeneralAntillesWe need to select a treasurer for Rob to put on the account.22:12
chem|stamazon is easy... board mail is set for the account, I reset the pw and we are good...22:12
GeneralAntilleschem|st, OK, thanks!22:12
chem|stI already altered the interests settings to not get those amazon mails again22:12
GeneralAntillesShould probably have at least 2-3 board members with access to the bank account.22:12
GeneralAntilleschem|st, perfect.22:12
JaffaI'd suggest the treasurer is US-based, to avoid any difficulties in the handover from Rob22:12
JaffaAnd agree on having additional board members to eliminate bus/troll factor22:13
chem|stalso from US22:13
GeneralAntillesWoody14619 seems to have the easiest access to First Bank of Niagara.22:13
Jaffachem|st: Ideally, I guess22:13
Woody14619I'm willing to be on the account as well, but would prefer to not be the defacto treasurer.22:13
GeneralAntilleswin7mac has volunteered to be the treasurer22:13
win7macI might take over in keeping things up to date for you and so on22:13
DocScrutinizer05sorry for interruption. Sidenote: you will want to explicitly spell the IRC chanlog URL on your voice meeting, to have it attached to the voice record and then reference to this very IRC convo explicitly to agree and vote "YAY", also clearly stating your name22:14
Woody14619Yes, there are branches on every corner here.22:14
chem|stbut as we spent all our money in europe we might consider to move assets to EU22:14
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, noted, thanks.22:14
Woody14619chem|st, agreed.22:14
GeneralAntilleschem|st, do you want to investigate our options there?22:14
win7macthanked + agreed22:14
chem|styou mean like fee-free accounts for NPOs?22:15
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure what the situation is with a PA corporation using offshore accounts.22:15
chem|stcan check with one of my banks yeah but I guess it does not matter much... a daily-target account is like 8eur/a22:16
GeneralAntillesOK, we'll chase down details on that proposal in an email.22:16
GeneralAntillesCan I give somebody an action item to send an email to start that discussion?22:16
chem|stwe can move around who is treasurer later22:16
Woody14619For the immediate need though, we should select a treasurer and any additional members to put on the account.22:17
GeneralAntillesItem 4 is officer selection.22:17
Jaffawin7mac: Where are you based?22:17
Woody14619If not now, before end of meeting.22:17
chem|stwhat else of accounts do we have22:17
win7macgermany as well22:17
chem|stI hold the vBulletin account22:17
GeneralAntillesI'm thinking win7mac can be treasurer, Woody14619 and Jaffa also on the account?22:17
JaffaAgreed. We should complete the handover from the existing treasuter22:17
chem|stso I own the license actually22:17
Jaffawin7mac: Have you an SSN or other form of US ID?22:17
JaffaNot sure what bank we have the account with, but if they're US they may want the main treasurer to be US identifiable22:18
win7macSSN or other form of US ID - NO22:18
GeneralAntillesI doubt Cosimo had US ID, either.22:19
Woody14619It may, in the end, make sense to have two accounts, and split the procedes amoung them.  Would certainly ease fee hits from PP, banks, etc, on conversion.22:19
GeneralAntillesSo I'm not sure that'll be an issue.22:19
win7macI mean anybody can be on the papers, I just need acces too and take care of things22:19
GeneralAntillesWoody14619, yeah, good point. Another item to discuss in the email thread.22:19
Woody14619.oO(I say, having just spent a bank fee on getting Euro in hand while in the US in prep for my upcomging trip...)22:19
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Fair enough. Are we dependent on Cosimo or Rob to handover then?22:19
GeneralAntillesJaffa, Rob is the only person on the account right now.22:20
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Ah22:20
GeneralAntillesBank needs meeting minutes selecting a treasurer to add people, Rob is waiting on that.22:20
Woody14619Cosimo is still on the account, but has limited access, being far far away from any physical branch.22:20
JaffaWell, in that case, I'm happy for win7mac to be treasurer, and I'm happy to be on the account as a backup22:20
win7macso woody, jaffa + me, is that enough?22:21
GeneralAntilleswin7mac, sounds fine to me.22:21
GeneralAntillesAlright, any other major accounts we need to worry about?22:22
GeneralAntillesI have the info for Facebook, LinkedIn, WordPress, Twitter.22:22
GeneralAntillesI do not know who has the PayPal access.22:22
chem|stI'd love to screw paypal for good!22:22
GeneralAntillesNot sure what other options are out there22:23
Woody14619I have the Maemo facebook account (as does chem|st, who's done a great job getting activity there and linking in wth Jolla and others)22:23
GeneralAntillesMost people have a PayPal account.22:23
chem|stand arent aware of what it actually is22:24
GeneralAntillesI think somebody just needs to chase down the PayPal details from Rob, then.22:24
chem|stit is one of the most expensive money transfer systems!22:24
JaffaGeneralAntilles: And those who don't can still donate via CC etc.22:24
Woody14619The wordpress and other sites are all controlled by Tim S., so we can reset those if need be any time.22:24
chem|stso basically bankaccount and paypal, amazon we can easily trigger if we want to22:25
Woody14619I may have the PP details in an e-mail from march, but that's a hell of a search... given the folder size of e-mail from Maemo-based stuff I have right now.22:25
GeneralAntillesOK, we can find the PayPal details later.22:25
GeneralAntillesShall we close this item?22:25
JaffaWoody14619: from:*@paypal.com22:25
Woody14619Yeah, PP you can reset easy, as it's targeting the main mail alias.22:25
GeneralAntillesItem: 3. Incorporation status (are we 501(c)(3) or not?) and fixing PayPal donations(!).22:25
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Did we deal with other board positions?22:26
GeneralAntillesJaffa, Item 4.22:26
GeneralAntillesShall we jump ahead to 4?22:26
JaffaNo, it's OK22:26
JaffaI just didn't have the agenda in front of me and got confused.22:26
Woody14619To my understanding we are not a 501(c)(3) corporation.  The articles of incorperation we used were for a standard corporation.22:26
GeneralAntillesOK, so to clear up PayPal we need to figure out how to change it to a normal account22:27
Woody14619Generally one must become a corporation first, then apply for not-for-proffit stataus.22:27
chem|st501c3 is NPO?22:27
GeneralAntilleschem|st, yes.22:27
JaffaWhat does that main with regard to board members, tax in income, ...?22:27
GeneralAntillesJaffa, no idea.22:27
JaffaOK, so should we apply for 501c3? How hard is it? What burden of proof is there? What other commitments does it bring to our activities?22:28
Woody14619It means the company should be paying tax on items purchased (which it has, AFAIK) and may have to file taxes in the US at end of year.22:28
JaffaWoody14619: Presumably the filing of taxes is the responsibility of the treasurer22:28
chem|stbeing a normal corp would actualy mean that the donation funds need to be taxed as income, but not at $4000/a22:28
GeneralAntilles501c3 may increase our administrative overhead way too much to make it worth it.22:28
Woody14619I can ask my CPA sbout that if desired.  He does plenty of small business work with his firm.22:28
chem|stGeneralAntilles: for that we should consider the german e.V. eg registered NPO22:29
Woody14619chem|st, generally taxes on individials are exampt for the first $5K in the US anyway.. companies may be different, but shouldn't be that far off.22:29
GeneralAntillesWoody14619, that would be great.22:29
Woody14619I can take an action to consult my CPA about it. :)  He's rather competent.22:29
chem|stquiet easy over here, you just need 7 founders, after that you may reduce the members down to 322:29
GeneralAntillesACTION ITEM: Woody14619 will consult his CPA about tax details for the HiFo.22:30
DocScrutinizer05all howtos I've read say 501c3 NEEDS a lawyer to do it right22:30
GeneralAntillesThe US tax code is a mess.22:30
DocScrutinizer05no normal mortal will master that process22:30
Woody14619chem|st, agreed.  Having it dual-homed would be best IMHO.22:30
GeneralAntillesAnother email thread item to discuss forming a German NPO?22:31
JaffaAgreed. Lots to discuss there.22:31
DocScrutinizer05the e.V. idea been discussed for long and already semi-rolling - well at least we know how to do it and who may do it22:31
win7macGeneralAntilles, I'll rely on that, you guys are so damn fast...22:31
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, OK.22:32
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, it's advised to do so, but not required.  I've known a couple groups that went 501(c)(3) on their own, and can ask about it of them.  But generally it is easier with a lawyer.  This is one area I 'm fuzzy on, since we were *supposed* to look at getting NPO status "as soon as things settled down"...  I don't know if that happened in the Nov-March timeframe I was out or not.22:32
GeneralAntillesWoody14619, somehow, I doubt it did. :D22:32
DocScrutinizer05what happened was: PayPal froze the account?22:33
Woody14619As am I, which is why I have the opinion I have, that we are not.  The only one who can answer that for sure is Rob though.  If it was done, it would have been him doing it.  And he'd have the paperwork to prove it, being secretary.22:33
chem|sttime people...22:33
chem|stdiscussions on ML22:33
GeneralAntillesOK, does somebody want to be responsible for kicking off the German NPO discussion on the list?22:34
DocScrutinizer05forget about 501c3 for now. My 2 cent22:34
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, +122:34
DocScrutinizer05fix paypal account22:34
Woody14619PayPal requires verification of status and to link to a bank account.  The bank account link failed because they were not able to link with FirstNiagra for some reason.22:34
Woody14619As I was not on the list, I was unable to get the needed data to get FN involved and figure out why the link failed.22:35
GeneralAntillesAlright, once we have current people on the account and access to the PayPal account we can attempt to chase it down again.22:36
GeneralAntillesWoody14619, do you want to own this task?22:36
Woody14619And since the account timed out, it will now take direct interaction with PP to reset the account and try to link again, which is difficult at best.22:36
chem|stNPO mail sent to council aswell as board22:36
GeneralAntilleschem|st, thanks!22:36
chem|stI only send discussion starters to have them tracked22:37
Woody14619I can... Or Jaffa can.  It would have to be someone US side with account access.  Probably makes most sense for me, since I can visit a local branch and iron it out with a real person sitting there.22:37
win7macgreat, thanks chem|st22:37
JaffaYeah, I don't know where the closest branch is22:37
GeneralAntillesI think it's a regional bank.22:38
Woody14619For you, probably Ohio. ;)22:38
win7macthanks woody22:38
GeneralAntillesDefinitely none down here in FL.22:38
GeneralAntillesOK, giving ownership of the PayPal issue to Woody14619.22:38
GeneralAntillesShall we close this item then?22:38
Jaffa(No results found on within 100 miles of my home zip)22:39
Woody14619They're slowly speading (like VD) but they're mainly NE US right now still.  NY, PA, OH, MA, MI, etc.22:39
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Well, "in progress"22:39
GeneralAntillesJaffa, right.22:39
Woody14619They jumped a bit recently by aquiring "Fleet" and another bank, so. :P22:39
GeneralAntillesOK, "in progress", moving on.22:40
DocScrutinizer05who's talking to Rob about that FN stuff?22:40
GeneralAntillesItem 4. Officer selection for treasurer, secretary, chair, and communications.22:40
JaffaTreasurer: done22:40
Woody14619(Several locals were unhappy with that, as their direct deposit didn't carry over... Not a good sign.)22:40
JaffaCommunications: I nominate GeneralAntilles22:40
GeneralAntillesI'll do it (and try to do a better job this time).22:40
JaffaWoody14619: (US banking seems very backwards to me ;-))22:40
GeneralAntillesJaffa, US banks are super regulated.22:40
Woody14619I second GA for communications...22:41
JaffaDoes Comms cover updating
Woody14619With good reason.22:41
GeneralAntillesJaffa, yes.22:41
GeneralAntillesUpdating all web presence.22:41
Woody14619There's also Secretary and Chair to consider.22:42
* Woody14619 calls "Not it!" for Chair... no really...22:42
win7macagrre to GeneralAntilles for communications22:42
GeneralAntillesWoody14619 for secretary then?22:42
win7macand woody for chair + treasurer22:42
* Woody14619 hides! :)22:42
DocScrutinizer05I suggest jaffa for chair22:42
win7macsecretary belongs to Jaffa!22:42
Jaffawin7mac: I thought you were going to be treasurer?22:43
GeneralAntillesYou two will have to fight it out amongst yourselves.22:43
JaffaOK, so current sugestions are:22:43
win7macor the other way round, ok22:43
JaffaTreasurer: win7mac or Woody1461922:43
JaffaChair: Woody14619 or Jaffa22:43
JaffaSecretary: Woody1461922:43
Woody14619Secretary I could do...22:43
JaffaGiven Woody14619 doesn't want to be chair, I'm happy to do it if no-one else wants to herd you evil cats22:43
DocScrutinizer05can we have 2 treasurers?22:43
Woody14619And I can be "assistant treasurer" if need be for doing things to get accounts squared away.22:44
GeneralAntilles^ +122:44
DocScrutinizer05and a few assistants22:44
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Legally, I suspect we should have one *treasurer*, but that doesn't mean it can't be shared/delegated22:44
Jaffa"Responsibility" vs. "doing"22:44
GeneralAntilleswin7mac, as primary treasurer. Woody14619 can assist with local contact.22:44
Woody14619sounds viable to me.22:44
* Jaffa agrees.22:44
DocScrutinizer05I'd suggest other way round22:44
DocScrutinizer05simplifies FN stuff22:44
Woody14619wait... chem|st doesn't have a title yet. ;)22:45
win7mac"Responsibility" vs. "doing" - EXACTLY22:45
JaffaEither works for me. Having local access to bank for treasurer would be easier I suspect22:45
* chem|st hides behind GeneralAntilles 22:45
* GeneralAntilles isn't very large.22:45
DocScrutinizer05win7mac: 1. vice treasurer, EU branch22:45
Woody14619That will incetivise us to setup EU account, which is frankly more needed at this moment.22:45
* chem|st isn't very thick22:45
win7macno, wait, I'm doing, woody's responsible22:45
GeneralAntillesSo, treasurer: Woody14619, win7mac will handle the financial grunt work?22:46
GeneralAntillesSounds fine to me.22:46
Woody14619hmmm.... Really would prefer other way around, but for now, if it makes the paperwork easier, sure.22:46
GeneralAntillesWe can make changes once we pursue the EU stuff.22:47
win7macWoody, just forward everything to me, I'll take care!22:47
chem|stehrm with woody being secretary he cannot be treasurer22:47
DocScrutinizer05you can switch that any future time22:47
Woody14619We really do need to look into setting up an EU account though.. for no other reason than to avoid transfer/bank fees.22:47
chem|styeah will call my bank 2morrow22:47
DocScrutinizer05I might guess... German banks are fine with 1. vice treasurer, if they content with that at all22:48
chem|stwill ask for papers if it sounds sane22:48
win7macOFC woody being secretary he *can* be treasurer22:48
Woody14619I see no reason we can't have two treasurers.. :)22:48
win7macvice treasurer, like that!22:48
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: +122:49
DocScrutinizer05US branch, EU branch22:49
chem|stwell do what you like^^ one of you needs to send me papers as soon as I figured out how to get an account for an US corp...22:49
DocScrutinizer05how you share workload is your business22:49
win7macor just make woody stay chair and have Jaffa as secretary22:49
Woody14619Secretary has some legal requirements.. to track and hold papers and such.  Which we need to get from Rob.22:50
chem|stany director possition has a conflict of interest with treasurer that is why secretary isn't it by default in a NPO...22:50
DocScrutinizer05secretary has to handle all the papers. Chair has... to write meeting minutes22:50
Woody14619Personally, I'm for getting a POBox and putting that as the main address, scanning everything and putting in an on-line repo, and calling it a day. :)22:50
chem|stsecretary has the minutes here, iirc22:50
JaffaThat would be my understanding.22:51
DocScrutinizer05didn't we agree on forgetting about NPO for nowß22:51
Woody14619Not NPO... POBox (Post office box).22:51
JaffaChair chairs meetings and ensures they happen. Secretary handles minutes22:51
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: npo is a general term and if we form an e.V. we must seperate things that way22:51
GeneralAntillesChair and secretary.22:52
GeneralAntillesWho's it?22:52
JaffaOne of me and Woody14619. Don't mind which way round22:52
win7macI'm out22:52
Woody14619I would prefer to not be chair. :)22:52
chem|stok so jaffa is to become chair woody is to become secretary GeneralAntilles is to become coms win7mac is to become treasurer22:52
chem|stsounds sane to me22:52
Woody14619works for me22:53
chem|stwin7mac: ?22:53
GeneralAntillesAlright, that's it for that topic, then?22:53
chem|stgood... next!22:53
DocScrutinizer05don't forget about your voice AYE22:53
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, yep, at the end.22:53
GeneralAntillesItem 5. Briefing on Nokia handover contract and any other non-public negotiations the board has been involved in.22:53
GeneralAntillesThis is basically all on Rob.22:53
GeneralAntillesRob's not here22:53
DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-16 21:52:33] <win7mac> I'm out22:53
GeneralAntillesSo, I guess we put it on hold until we can get him to cooperate.22:54
JaffaSo, as chair, I will now ask if the remaining items ("Briefing on Nokia handover", "Email exchanges", "Private keys", "Ongoing business", "By-laws") should be covered via email or in a subsequent meeting22:54
win7macall's good22:54
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Indeed. The bylaws presumably provide some kind of legal pressure for him to cooperate with a replacement board22:54
GeneralAntillesMostly blocking on a person who isn't here.22:54
JaffaDo any of those items want to be discussed now?22:54
GeneralAntillesSo little point in discussing now.22:54
Woody14619Works.. I think the rest of this is best done by e-mail and followup as noted.22:55
GeneralAntillesOnly thing I think we should hit is DocScrutinizer05's proposal about delegation to avoid voice meetings.22:55
win7macOR IN #maemo-board!!!22:55
Jaffawin7mac: Only for sensitive, informal discussions22:55
chem|stsigned emails is ok22:55
JaffaThe whole problem of lack of handover is because of a lack of organisation around details22:56
Jaffachem|st: PGP-signed, you mean?22:56
DocScrutinizer05IRC is not official for this, particulalrly not a closed unlogged channel22:56
chem|stJaffa: yes22:56
win7macright, ok22:56
Jaffachem|st: Something like email goes out (probably from chair), and is signed. A majority/whatever of other board members reply with "Yes" or "No" in signed emails.22:57
JaffaChair and secretary have public keys of board members (hell, put them publicly on and verify result22:57
chem|stpreferably we sign our keys from each other22:57
DocScrutinizer05think of all things spoken in #maemo-board as if they were spoken in a pub, on informal meeting. nothing will persist22:57
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: +122:57
Jaffachem|st: Logistically tricky to get the chain of trust, indeed.22:57
chem|stmy keys are signe by cacert and I am also an assurer if need be for certs for servers etc, just to let you know22:58
win7macwhat keys?22:58
Woody14619Then we must agree as a board to accept signed e-mail as such (rather to have the secretary accept them as such, since that's the key of the issue)22:58
JaffaWoody14619: Indeed, I mean for any individual acceptance it would be the Secretary confirming the votes were in order.22:58
JaffaWoody14619: ...once the process was agreed.22:58
Jaffawin7mac: GPG/PGP public/private key pair.22:59
Woody14619And, via PA law, an majority acting and informing the secretary is allowed without a meeting.  FYI.22:59
Jaffachem|st: Nice. Most/all of my keys are self-signed at the moment.22:59
chem|stJaffa: we can change that22:59
Jaffawin7mac: for background23:00
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: great!23:00
win7macwhat? I send you a regular mail, if you want with my signature and that's it...23:00
chem|stare all agreeing on that PGP idea?23:00
DocScrutinizer05please discuss PGP nittigritties later23:00
Jaffawin7mac: It's signed with your private key and that can be verified with your public key23:00
win7machave to look into that23:01
JaffaAnd, from Woody14619's comment about PA law, that meets the requirements for the voice call?23:01
Woody14619win7mac, most mail clients have a plugin to make it easy.23:01
DocScrutinizer05win7mac: what's your problem?23:01
win7macnot sure23:02
chem|stjaffa next23:02
win7macdon't know it23:02
DocScrutinizer05sign your official mails with PGP, all fine23:02
win7macok, I will!23:02
GeneralAntillesYeah, we'll get it figured out with you.23:02
Woody14619Jaffa, no, the voice call must still happen.  esp for this meeting.  Bylawss require a quarterly meeting minimum. Meetings must include voice call by PA law.23:02
DocScrutinizer05secretary gets instructed to accept signed mails as official23:02
chem|stI will sign all keys I receive so we can generate a rotary trust23:02
DocScrutinizer05no more meeting needed23:02
*** Pali has quit IRC23:03
Woody14619But actions outside meetings can happen with a majority agreing and informing secretary of the action.23:03
chem|stjaffa voice then?23:03
Jaffachem|st: Yup23:03
JaffaSo, we will now have a voice call on the previously provided POTS details (as part of Concert-Oh) to confirm:23:03
Woody14619I will dial in... probably best for you all to do so as well.23:03
Jaffa* Bank account: win7mac, Woody14619, Jaffa23:04
DocScrutinizer05great job done, guys! Thanks a lot from me and for sure from whole council and community!23:04
Jaffa* Treasurer: Woody14619 (with assistance from win7mac)23:04
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, no, thank you!23:04
Jaffa* Treasurer: win7mac (with assistance from Woody14619)23:04
Jaffa* Secretary: Woody1461923:05
Jaffa* Comms: GeneralAntilles23:05
Jaffa* Chair: Jaffa23:05
Jaffa* Acceptance of PGP-signed emails (to be organised indepdently and verifiably) for Board action23:05
JaffaAnything else? Have we got a URL for the log to quote?23:05
Woody14619beat me to it23:06
Woody14619Am dialed in now.23:06
Jaffa"Please wait"23:06
chem|stI am dialed in but after you are accepted and will now be forwarded I hav silence!23:07
JaffaDo we need the leader? (win7mac?)23:07
Woody14619I am dialed in now.  win7mac, you made meeting, do you need to activate it?23:07
DocScrutinizer05BoD unanimously agrees that secretary accepts PGP mails from majority of BoD as valid decision of BoD on any topic. BoD will on case by case decide to allow arbitrary members of boD to act on behalf of HiFo on a certain topic/task. This will get noticed to secretary by aforementioned signed mails23:07
win7macdialing in now :(23:07
GeneralAntillesThe grayed "Unmute me" button at the tope seems applicable.23:08
GeneralAntillesI think win7mac has to do something to let us speak.23:08
DocScrutinizer05yep, probably23:08
DocScrutinizer05room manager23:08
win7maci'm on it...23:08
Woody14619prob upper left area23:09
Woody14619Mouse over the meeting details.23:09
GeneralAntillesStart recording, unmute all?23:09
Woody14619You probaly have an unmute all button23:09
chem|stok screw it! waht are the TS details?23:10
win7mac Start recording, unmute all? - checked! all ok23:10
Woody14619seems to be recording.. I am still muted23:10
Woody14619I tried raising my hand...23:10
GeneralAntillesDisconnected. . . .23:10
JaffaI still can't hear anything23:11
chem|stteamspeak please...23:11
Woody14619this worked well the first time we did it. :P23:12
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: who got a TS client?23:12
Woody14619Downloading TS client now.23:12
JaffaI don't23:12
JaffaTrying to download now23:12
win7macI don't. Woody, set up a new one?23:12
GeneralAntillesWell, it's working for Chemist and I.23:12
JaffaDum de dum23:13
DocScrutinizer05oh c'mon23:13
win7maconly me, GA and woody are on concert-oh...!23:13
DocScrutinizer05olready works for 223:13
* Jaffa will try the Concert-Oh again23:13
GeneralAntillesChemist and I so far23:13
GeneralAntillesBut we can definitely hear one another.23:14
win7macme being without voice ATM, will dial in as soon the others join23:14
DocScrutinizer05so how hard can it be for the rest of you23:14
GeneralAntillesGotta install it.23:14
chem|stwasn't that way on concertoh...23:14
win7macso what now, concert-oh or TS23:15
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's working.23:15
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks23:15
GeneralAntilleswe only need simple majority, correct?23:15
chem|stwe have at least 2 more working for now^^23:16
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, bugs, bugs. It'll be easy next meeting.23:16
DocScrutinizer05no, this is inaugural meeting23:16
Jaffa<sigh />23:16
JaffaTS doesn't work through our VPN/firewall23:16
JaffaCan it use a SOCKS proxy (though god knows what it'd do to latency)23:16
chem|stshould work23:17
DocScrutinizer05guys, you can't play install-teamspeak while others dialed in to an overseas number and pay for every minute23:17
JaffaWell, I tried Concert-Oh again. It did not work.23:17
win7maci'm not dialed-in atm23:17
GeneralAntillesYes, Concerto-Oh seems to be doing nothing.23:17
win7maci try online23:18
chem|stI had a 6minute silence call...23:18
Jaffawin7mac: We think you have to enable it online23:18
chem|stand am not able to login23:18
JaffaStart the meeting or something23:18
win7maci tried everything, all is set... f*ck this23:18
GeneralAntillesMouse over the users on the bottom23:19
JaffaIf it isn't working in two minutes, we will end the meeting and establish a separate 5 minute meeting23:19
JaffaVia a trial of GoToMeeting or similar23:19
chem|stteamviewer is free and should work with your vpn23:19
chem|stat least non commercial23:19
JaffaI can hear now on Concert-Oh23:20
JaffaWTF was that noise?23:20
JaffaPlease don't do that whoever it was.23:20
GeneralAntillesProbably me.23:20
GeneralAntillesWebcam mic23:20
GeneralAntillesHang on23:20
win7macwoody, i made you moderator23:21
JaffaGone quiet now23:21
Woody14619k, are we back on concertoh now?23:21
JaffaOK, one more minute.23:21
GeneralAntillesI guess I got muted again after disconnecting to change input source.23:21
win7macstill i onlysee woody + general on concert23:22
JaffaOtherwise I'll arrange something else for a similar time tomorrow for 5 minutes, with a pre-established agenda and script23:22
JaffaI'm dialled in to the details GeneralAntilles pasted above23:22
JaffaHeard stuff. Now silent.23:22
Jaffa30 seconds23:22
Woody14619dialed back in23:23
GeneralAntillesLet's call it and figure something else out.23:23
DocScrutinizer05win7mac: you won't see dialins named23:23
GeneralAntillesNot a huge amount of urgency to the voice portion.23:23
JaffaCalled it.23:23
JaffaMeeting ended. Thank you for your participation. I will set up a new voice call.23:23
GeneralAntillesThanks, everybody!23:24
JaffaWoody14619: Can you handle minutes ahead of that?23:24
Woody14619so.. I'm on Ts and concerto now...23:25
DocScrutinizer05and you're the only one23:25
win7macWell, we had time to discuss this shit, this was forseeable :(23:26
chem|st^^nope he is talking to mê!23:26
win7macto everybody!23:26
win7macexcept doc23:26
GeneralAntillesNah, no worries.23:26
GeneralAntillesNo harm, no foul.23:26
chem|stI said I would rather like to have some reliable tested service...23:26
Woody14619So... yeah... This was much easier the first time.  Concertoh worked (via POTS at least)23:27
GeneralAntillesWe're all busy. Shit happens.23:27
chem|stwell concertoh has its website borked...23:27
DocScrutinizer05rather PFF23:27
JaffaPOTS deals need circulating ahead of time.23:27
DocScrutinizer05(([2013-07-16 22:26:38] <win7mac> except doc)) did I suggest POTS? did I?23:28
win7macso TS then, ok I'll install that, happy then?23:28
JaffaNo, TS won't work for everyone23:29
DocScrutinizer05POTS supposed to work for everybody23:29
win7macPOTS? - I'd be broke by now ;)23:29
Woody14619jaffa, when you have some time, play around with the TS stuff.. maybe you can find a way to get it to work.23:30
win7macso no concert + no TS?23:30
Woody14619not urgent right now.23:30
DocScrutinizer05ohyeah, [2013-07-16 22:07:56] <win7mac> dialing in now :(  - 22:30 = 23min * 0.5$23:30
Woody14619as others have to take off anyway (end of time)23:30
Woody14619But how I can put together a summary of the minutes, then once we do get it ironed out we can quickly hop on *-voice service-* and confirm for the record.23:31
DocScrutinizer05but how? but Now??23:32
JaffaWoody14619: That's what I was thinking. Minutes/link to IRC log. Then we can dial in and confirm our acceptance of various things in a quick <5 minute call23:32
JaffaI'm going to try scheduling the meeting for the same time (1900 UTC) tomorrow23:33
chem|stbye lads!23:33
GeneralAntillesLater, chem|st.23:33
DocScrutinizer05anticipate at least 10min, incl repeated dialin23:34
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Indeed23:34
win7macis everybody available?23:34
Woody14619agreed.  I wonder if I can get TS on my N900.  That would be cool. :)23:34
JaffaWoody14619: I've got the call details, so let me know when we have minutes (which you should probably send signed)23:34
Woody146191900 UTS = 3pm for me.  Again, doable, but will be at work (as I am now).23:35
JaffaWoody14619: Ditto (noon here). SHould only take 5 mins23:35
DocScrutinizer05please everybody send me your balance for the calls, and your paypal/bank account so I'll refund you for your expense from funds I collected23:36
JaffaWhat countries do we need numbers in? US/UK/Germany/Canada?23:37
Woody14619Thus the desire to get something like TS working.23:37
win7macSo dial-in instead of TS?23:37
win7macgermany here23:38
JaffaWoody14619: GoToMeeting provides numbers around the globe:
Woody14619Who's in UK/Canada?23:38
JaffaWoody14619: Dunno, I'm covering my ass23:38
win7macoh, you can all very well call me ;-)23:39
Woody14619I think we're US/Germany honestly.  chem|st, win7mac, DocScrutinizer05 all germany.  You, me, GeneralAntilles all US.23:39
win7macrigt woody23:39
DocScrutinizer05I think chem|stwill complain23:39
DocScrutinizer05afaik he's not exactly Germany?23:39
DocScrutinizer05but close enough23:40
DocScrutinizer05not sure about it though23:40
JaffaIf he lets me know I'll see if I can get a number23:41
DocScrutinizer05actually you could do a ISDN (even POTS with ANIS extensions) conference call chain ;-D23:41
win7macyou wouldn't rely on that, would you?23:42
DocScrutinizer05unless a 3-party-call doesn't allow one of the invited far ends to generate a 3-party call of his own23:42
DocScrutinizer05even German telecom offers conference calls by simply dialing in to a number + room extension afaik23:43
JaffaInvite sent for tomorrow at 1900 UTC to confirm minutes and decisions23:44
DocScrutinizer05adhoc conference23:45
DocScrutinizer05 01805 100923:45
DocScrutinizer05 +49 1805 100923:46
win7macThe GoToMeeting Integrated Toll-Free audio conferencing service does not include germany23:46
GeneralAntillesJaffa, "Google Calendar invitations cannot be forwarded via email. This event belongs to and you are logged in as Please ask the meeting organiser to add you to the event from Google Calendar."23:46
GeneralAntillesOh well.23:46
DocScrutinizer05you all just dial +49 1805 1009   then go to room 50925123:48
DocScrutinizer05(I made up that number, hoping it's not occupied23:48
DocScrutinizer05roomnumber that is23:49
DocScrutinizer05I'd bet THAT one works23:50
DocScrutinizer05since "it just works" is the *only* thing German Telekom can use on their advertisment side, otherwise customers go to concertOh to fail for free23:51
win7macjust tell me what + where and I'll try to make it. I just won't host it23:51
DocScrutinizer05I'm first visitor in room 50925123:53
DocScrutinizer05100% painless23:53
DocScrutinizer05(I ended call since it costs me actually 50ct/min23:54
DocScrutinizer05from mobile phone23:54
DocScrutinizer05POTS is cheaper23:54
Jaffawin7mac: No, but there's a local number.23:54
win7maci had my try, whatever you guys suggest...23:56
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Bah. I'll need specific email addresses then. Presumably you can add it to your local calendar without accepting, though23:56
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Everyone dialling a German number doesn't sound cost effective23:56
DocScrutinizer05messing for hours with 4 "free" alternatives is not effective23:56
JaffaAnd I've scheduled one which is a proper global company that we use regularly at work.23:57
JaffaWhich provides POTS numbers in multiple countries23:57
DocScrutinizer05ok, so pretty please make sure you tested things a 30min before, and you're first in room23:57
JaffaOf course23:58
DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: sure, I suggested exactly that to win7mac23:58
DocScrutinizer05since I did same in my job23:58
DocScrutinizer05I forgot which company we used23:58
DocScrutinizer05but it also had multiple national dial-in numbers23:59

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