| ZogG_lap1op | hey | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Woody14619 | And keep half an eye on e-mail so when I say "shall I start sending tokens" you can all go"yay" and out they go. | 00:00 |
| ZogG_lap1op | there is meeting here uh? | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: ((Which is something HFC can in many ways do...)) good point | 00:00 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: agreed. HFC is a self governing group, so states bylaws, with the exception of how it runs elections. Those must follow the bylaws and the rules they setup for electorate and qualifications... | 00:01 |
| Woody14619 | After referendum, those rules are equal, or close enough to phase-lock. Done. | 00:02 |
| Woody14619 | Anway, off to do real work for a bit and/or see if I can't dump an electorate table. | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the first thinh HFC will do is "we declare that we (HFC) are defined as being the members of the usually elected MCC, for now and all times" ? | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "so from now on there's no need to do any HFC elections since MCC elections will provide the body of HFC" | 00:04 |
| Woody14619 | If you can find people to run and say that. :) | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 00:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: A better idea is to have them say "those who are members of the MCC will be considered members of the HFC, with their HFC membership terminating when their MCC membership terminates" (or something like that). | 00:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..in the election rules document they provide to HiFo. | 00:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | That way it's codified in the election eligibility document for hifo and not just something they declared someday in the past. | 00:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | That's if they end up going the 'define HFC as MCC' route. | 00:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Though I still think the 'end MCC formally, transfer whatever MCC rules you want into HiFo's bylaws' route is much cleaner formally.) | 00:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: well, seems we violently agree on that first part. I don't like the idea of MMC committing suicide though | 00:12 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, think of it like a caterpiller becoming a butterfly then. ;) | 00:12 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(Or in this case, maybe a moth....) | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't get done since MCC rules always been meant to not allow anybody to abolish it, or the rules that apply to it | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MCC will stay MCC, it's just taking a new responsibility, which is defined as HFC | 00:14 |
| Woody14619 | K, seriously away now, called to the lab. :P at 5:15 on a Friday... Did I mention I love my manager. GET THAT LETTER DONE! :) | 00:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that letter looks almost fine to me | 00:15 |
| Mentalis1Traceur | Sorry, lagged out again. Okay, so the to-do for this week is what? Just tweak the referendum token email draft by woody, and compose drafts for the election announcements, and finally compose a draft letting people know about the route the Board is taking and that we are tolerating it, essentially? | 00:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we need wiki pages, alike all other votes had | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that letter needs to point to the front page | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | an URL in that letter needs... | 00:16 |
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| Estel_ | hey MentalistTraceur and qwazix, long time :) Good luck in your Council doings, and keep sanity ;) | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | similar to this one: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1/2_2012 | 00:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: similar to this one: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1/2_2012 | 00:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | God damn this connection is infuriating. | 00:23 |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/" | 00:25 | |
| qwazix | Estel_, hi | 00:25 |
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| qwazix | Keeping sanity is getting harder by the day | 00:25 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Hmmm... I just saw mg.pol.lt report an ssl certificate verified by "programmers of vilnius"... The fuck? | 00:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | Does this seem like a mitm thing to anyone else...? | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, pov.lt using a self-signed cert | 00:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh. | 00:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Just earlier today it was reporting a cert signed by StartSSL though..? | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | strange, maybe they are just about to fix stuff with their certs | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I've seen the warning about self-signed cert a few days ago first time | 00:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hmm. *Shrug* I'm glad to hear that's their own cert, though. | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask mgedmin about it | 00:35 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, are you sure you are visiting the right site? | 00:35 |
| qwazix | I still see startssl | 00:35 |
| qwazix | it's mg.pov.lt not mg.pol.lt | 00:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | The direct link to today's log of this channel | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 00:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-04-19.log.html | 00:36 |
| qwazix | "verified by StartCom Ltd" | 00:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | StartCom, that's what I meant. | 00:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Not StartSSL) | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, selfsigned here | 00:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | If they're using an HA cluster, we might be hitting different nodes, with different certs installed. | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 00:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | If they're rolling out the self-signed certs overtime everywhere, it would explain why Doc saw it as self-signed a few days ago, I saw it switch just recently, and you (qwazix) still get the StartCom cert. | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I don't get the reason why I would use https on a chanlog anyway | 00:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | That's just what the url I clicked on pointed to. | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it does? strange | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clicking the URL in topic gives me a page full of non-SSL links | 00:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | Interesting. | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl Latest (bookmarkable) -> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html | 00:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not sure how I ended up in https then. Can't say I mind though. | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are you sure you're using the url from /topic? http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/ | 00:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | Gave me a little scare with the cert thing, but that got sorted fast. | 00:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | I did initially, yes. | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | weird | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so quite obviously the sysop there is fiddling with certs and rewrites or forwards | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the site is marius gedminas' aka mgedmin | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #harmattan | 00:54 |
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| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Yep yep. Okay, I have to sign out. If I can, I'll write up all of the necessary email/announce drafts within the next 24 or so hours. I'm pretty sure I won't have time for any of the wiki pages though. If I don't get to it in 24 hours though, it's best to assume I won't get to it (at least for the referendum token email, which needs to go out very soon, and someone else is ... | 00:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... welcome to do any tweaks/edits to the draft and if the rest of you approve it, the tokens can be sent even if I don't have the time, obviously. | 00:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 00:56 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q2_2013 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q2_2013/Eligible_candidates http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2013/Candidate_declarations | 01:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Hope that helps MT out a bit. | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: you da man! :-D | 01:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ;) | 01:39 |
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| Win7Mac | Hello | 17:08 |
| Win7Mac | Anybody here? | 17:11 |
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| test___ | Pali, please type something, just for testing | 19:14 |
| Pali | something | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 19:16 |
| test___ | thanks! | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | versuch doch mal nen etwas geistreicheren nick! ;-P | 19:17 |
| test___ | ;) | 19:18 |
| test___ | not shure if I should use webchat.freenode.net or client.... best client for Win7 is mIRC? | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: sorry, I don't know :-) No windows here (really!), but web gateway seems really nice, for a web gateway anyway | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall mIRC has some features you MUST NOT use, if you want to stay online (instead of get banned) | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stuff like ascii graphics? | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I might be wrong though | 19:30 |
| kerio | like COLORS! | 19:30 |
| Win7Mac | thoght so... ;) web gateway will do it perfectly fine for the moment. Just wanted to say hi and BIG THANKS to woody, council, techstaff and moderators! | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for thanks! :-) | 19:32 |
| Win7Mac | ...and encourage you to keep on! From yesterdays log, you were pretty much frustrated after the BoD-meeting | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apropos techstaff - www annoys me | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a week ago I patched nagios monitoring to send alarm on 6% free disk instead of 10%. Guess what, today I got alarm "less than 6% free disk space" | 19:35 |
| Win7Mac | Questions like "why even bother any more" came up and that made me sad... | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, most of us are really wasted | 19:36 |
| Win7Mac | But Woody showed a way that seems (not the most eficient but) at least ok. There's hope! | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can say whatever you want about Rob, there's one thing he's really brilliant: his efficiency on communication battles is awesome, he creates hours of worries and headache and drafting answers for possibly dozens of communication peers, by a single mail that probably costs him less than 10 minutes | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, I think woody handled the whole situation as good as feasible, and we'll try to follow this path (at least I feel like that, ~ 60% of the time i think about it. The remaining 40% are filled with weird ideas how to nuke random cities, or hire russian hitman, or kill the internet at large, etc ;-P) | 19:44 |
| kerio | really, a hitman won't cost much | 19:44 |
| kerio | we can just get some donations | 19:44 |
| Win7Mac | Yeah, at times it was so annoying to hear him talk... I just wonder why there were no more users attending... These are cruicial things for everybody in the community :( | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's just one of the points that led to the rant you quoted | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why bother when nobody else does? | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all *we* (those who constantly struggle for a solution of all this mess) all have our "infra" settled and we'd not need *anything* of all the stuff we fight for | 19:47 |
| Win7Mac | Well, I came here just for that! | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so many thanks for that! :-D | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me post a quote of my own words of yesterday, since I found a rather enlightening "old" post | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-20 01:20:03] <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1256324&postcount=11 >>I'm not sure if we should try to proceed under the name of maemo in any event since the reputation among the general public (not the informed and more knowledgeable community here) is that it is an old, obsolete and outdated software<< | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-20 01:20:36] <DocScrutinizer05> who gives a shit about general public? | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Rob always thought (and obviously still thinks) of maemo as a product to push into market | 19:53 |
| kerio | what the fucking fuck | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which it most obviously isn't | 19:53 |
| Win7Mac | In near future, I see you amongst other honorable members being board and get the right things done. So everybody now involved will have best chances to do so. You're doing the right thing, you will succeed! | 19:56 |
| Win7Mac | And don't give up maemo-name, it's tradition at its best! | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | In Rob's world HiFo's primary mission is to go beyond maemo and even meego, and push the whole thing to new grounds. He doesn't realize that this never been the responsibility of HiFo at all, and also won't ever happen the way he hopes for | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if maemo/meego will have a successor eventually, then this will happen like "we're Jolla and here's sailfish" - no company will "buy" or adopt maemo and beam it into year 2015 | 19:59 |
| kerio | thank god for that, 2015 sucks | 20:00 |
| Win7Mac | That was Robs' point why MCC cannot be HFC... | 20:01 |
| Win7Mac | But from HiFo abou page: "The Hildon Foundation, founded in September 2012, is a nonprofit organization elected by the Maemo Community to handle community oversight and infrastructure." | 20:03 |
| Win7Mac | No word about anything beyond it... | 20:03 |
| Win7Mac | Also, Woody and Jim are missing on that page... | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw this also is BS - there IS NO SUCH THING as "community oversight", I'd slap the face of anybody apponting himself for my oversight | 20:04 |
| Win7Mac | <kerio> is that sarcasm or your just disturbing for fun? | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mild sarcasm | 20:05 |
| kerio | not quite | 20:06 |
| kerio | i'm dead serious | 20:06 |
| kerio | OSes for mobile platforms have become shit | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (btw a hint: highlighting should be used like "nick: hello" or "nick, hello" [i.e. with a ":" or "," and no "<" and ">" around it) | 20:06 |
| kerio | yeah, i spent some time trying to figure out when i said that | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | looks like a quote | 20:07 |
| Win7Mac | :nod: ok, thanks! | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | full ack for shitty OSes nowadays | 20:08 |
| Win7Mac | Just gifted an N9 to friend and he's so happy (since 2 days)... | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | really *all* of Rob's actions and (almost all) statements make perfect sense, when you apply this product-to-market focused view | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just... this view is moot | 20:22 |
| Win7Mac | "HiFo about page: elected by the Maemo Community to handle community infrastructure" - so it's clear it's all about *maemo*community*. Can 2/3 BoD majority take action if Rob does not follow? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wellm that HiFo about page been made up by somebody in BoD, in a 15min effort | 20:23 |
| Win7Mac | yeah, it's not refference... | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Rob is following the bylaws as he reads them | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously those bylaws been ambiguous from very beginning, Rob always prrofread them with a product centric view in mind, while everybody else read them with a community centric view | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the clash never became obvious, until lately | 20:26 |
| Win7Mac | But he agreed on merging councils: "http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1337567#post1337567: Yes, but the two councils is for these elections only." | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> transfer of the maemo community << W*T*F?? are *you* going to let somebody transfer you anywhere? I won't agree on any transfer of myself, and I for sure am part of "the maemo community" | 20:29 |
| qwazix | [2013-04-20 01:20:36] <DocScrutinizer05> who gives a shit about general public? | 20:32 |
| qwazix | +2,147,483,647 | 20:32 |
| Win7Mac | What's wrong with transfer? call it transform, merging, convert, alter, whatever, important is the outcome. | 20:34 |
| qwazix | we are *not* selling anything so there's no way we care if maemo is thought of an obsolete software, period. | 20:34 |
| qwazix | "we are the maemo community but we don't want to name the community after maemo because other people think maemo is crap" | 20:35 |
| qwazix | how stupid is that? Let's name it iOS community because iOS is cooler. | 20:36 |
| qwazix | btw Win7Mac thanks for support | 20:36 |
| Win7Mac | shure | 20:40 |
| Win7Mac | Isn't it too late to leave HiFo (when Nokia contract finally is effective) to have acces to NOK/maemo/meego assets? Isn't it what it's mainly about? | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: the whole contract is about 3 things: 1) Nokia transfers the DOMAIN maemo.org to HiFo, 2) Nokia allows HiFo to redistribute (some of) the maemo closed blobs that are (C) Nokia [we however will NOT see the sourcecode of those blobs ever], and 3) Nokia donates some hw (the servers) to HiFo, to facilitate further running of maemo services like repository.maemo.org, tmo, a.s.o | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's it | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no meego assets | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no other assets of any form | 21:00 |
| Win7Mac | Then what is all that NOK-contract-hokus-pokus all about? | 21:01 |
| Win7Mac | Did you hear the meeting? | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly not ownership to any community transferred from Nokia to HiFo since neither Nokia nor HiFo *can* own a community - heck we're not in the middle age with peonage | 21:01 |
| Win7Mac | NOK-contract-hokus-pokus FROM ROB | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | his take on maemo is product centric, he thinks it's a package of intelectual property plus a community owned and ruled by Nokia | 21:03 |
| Win7Mac | "a package of intelectual property plus a community owned and ruled by Nokia" true, isn't it? | 21:05 |
| Win7Mac | for the past , at least... | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there IS NOT friggin intellectual property of any kind in maemo, except for some closed blob abominations everybody wish wheren't there | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and NOBODY EVER OWNS a community | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not owned by anybody | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you prefer to be owned by Nokia, I dunno | 21:06 |
| Win7Mac | "I'm not owned by anybody" - I believe that, esp. from you. But no, I'd rather not be owned... | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cheery did a good job in that | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cherry even | 21:07 |
| qwazix | hehe | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however cherry stolen data never been a part of the contract between Nokia and HiFo either | 21:08 |
| qwazix | I always wondered if cherry was chosen by the dev as a name as a statement | 21:09 |
| qwazix | for apple like behavior in an open product... | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in some way for sure | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia devs have a record for awesome names, look at "fiasco" | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "NOLO" | 21:10 |
| Win7Mac | I have no clue about those things, don't even try to explain... | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cherry | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~mynokia | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~uselss | 21:11 |
| qwazix | no infobot | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, sorry | 21:11 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 21:12 |
| qwazix | Win7Mac, anyway cherry was that spyware Nokia included in PR1.2 who sent an unsolicited sms first time you turned your phone on | 21:12 |
| qwazix | btw DocScrutinizer05 we might want to rebake a CSSU fiasco image only for this reason | 21:12 |
| qwazix | I always forget that crap after reflash and I assume most of the people. | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-20 20:12:53] <infobot> methinks mynokia is a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription, or https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366 | 21:13 |
| povbot | Bug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user | 21:13 |
| kerio | qwazix: we might as well add cssu-stable to that | 21:13 |
| qwazix | kerio, that's what I just said | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: +1000 for nuking mynokia shit in CSSU | 21:14 |
| qwazix | of course stable rather than testing is the obvious choice | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after we almost got permission to "ship nokia (C) blobs" we could actually finally and legally bake our own (cherry-free) fiasco | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (and honestly cssu already got that permission since ages) | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and who cares anymore anyway | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 21:16 |
| Win7Mac | you talking harmattan? | 21:16 |
| qwazix | no, fremantle | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, fremantle | 21:16 |
| Win7Mac | the same never will happen to harmattan after 2015, right? | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should move this convo to #maemo anyway | 21:17 |
| qwazix | especially since stolen data nowadays probably goes directly to Microsoft, that's a bigger imperative | 21:17 |
| qwazix | Win7Mac, people are free to start a Harmattan CSSU | 21:18 |
| qwazix | and I am sure that whatever council/tech team is active when this happens will be very helpful/inclusive | 21:19 |
| qwazix | (though I don't see anybody starting such a project) | 21:21 |
| qwazix | Maybe due to the closed UI, or the less versatility of harmattan, most people prefer to improve fremantle. (Including me, despite that I am a daily harmattan user) | 21:22 |
| Win7Mac | Ok guys, many thanks and sorry for derailing, I need to leave soon. This was quite interesting and really nice talking to you. Anyway, BIG CHEERS TO ALL OF YOU! Keep on keepin' on...! See you soon. | 21:30 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, now when we have 0xffff tool for generating full fiasco image, it is possible | 21:32 |
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