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| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "TODAY'S MEETING LATE by 45min: 18:45 UTC || Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/" | 19:35 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "TODAY'S MEETING LATE by 60min: 19:00 UTC || Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/" | 19:36 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I have nothing to say | 22:05 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | or let's put it this way: I just don't know what to say | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | can you review the pastbin I posted? | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, since now we have meeting | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also, I haven't attended anything of what might be in there | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | I wonder why I bother at times... I really do. | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for stating the truth, unbiased and straight | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw others stated *exactly* the same in closed channels to me, just 5 min ago | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some of the attendants of today's BoD meeting (I didn't attend but I feel with them) | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is Rob putting together minutes? | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eventually, probably | 22:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: So is the thing you have on pastebin effectively the Board's final decision on this matter? | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if anybody could give us a concise review of what happened during that meeting, maybe we had something to talk about | 22:12 |
| qwazix | hi all, keeping up with logs | 22:12 |
| qwazix | many channels to keep up with | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | It's what I have literally in an editor (which some bold and links) in a post set to go to TMO as a new thread. | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | So yes. | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | On this one topic at least. | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | Doc's collection of the summaries from quazix and me in council-orga cover the rest. | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any other topics - except those that are missing? | 22:13 |
| Woody14619 | Meeting minutes will happen, but clearly are not ready at this instant. | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are you sure we're not wasting community's time right now, as in discussing stuff on a meeting that has zilch info for any community attendant? | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or let me put it this way: what will stay in meeting minutes of this very meeting so far? | 22:15 |
| qwazix | My opinion is that we go to the community state the history once again for everyone to read, retract all referendums and elections and announce one referendum to oust board. | 22:16 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: if that was possible; its best solution | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | The Board had a meeting. Agreeably the format and length is dislikable. But it's there. | 22:17 |
| qwazix | If you all agree on the other thing and believe in it I will probably just stay quiet but I won't do it just because we can't think of anything better now. | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I stay quiet until I feel I have anything to talk about | 22:18 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, why do you think it's impossible? | 22:18 |
| thedead1440 | Rob saying its illegal or whatever | 22:19 |
| Woody14619 | As is this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1337413 | 22:19 |
| Woody14619 | Technically there is not mechanism to halt an MCC referendum nor an MCC election. | 22:19 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: my exact sentiments >> 02:54 <thedead1440> i'm tired of all this drama; today i too feel like giving up on it... rob can go fuck himself | 22:19 |
| thedead1440 | 02:55 <thedead1440> whoever cares about *maemo.org can go fuck rob << | 22:19 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, I was saying to Woody14619 before, that the thing I hate the most is that we now look like fools | 22:20 |
| thedead1440 | indeed i told him something similar too on that same chan earlier | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | No one is a fool for doing what they feel is in the best interest of the community. Ever. | 22:20 |
| qwazix | There IS a seperate HFC, we never had the legal statute to call for elections, Rob was right all along. I really have a a hard time to accept that. | 22:21 |
| thedead1440 | >>00:24 <thedead1440> The problem with a middle ground is it makes whatever rob has been saying about the invalidity of current council's actions stand.<< | 22:21 |
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| qwazix | haha, I used almost the same words | 22:21 |
| kerio | fucking hell | 22:22 |
| Woody14619 | So... Where do you want to go? | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fact is that literally nobody except Rob thought there should be THREE entities | 22:22 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I've been looking down on politicians for changing stances with the wind because "of the best interest of $something". I'm not going to do it | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ever | 22:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not necessarily. There's a difference between accepting a solution that gets almost what the community wants, and accepting that the other side was right. | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | I'm game for anything. Personally, I think it works well to follow this path. But if Council wants other action... I'm up for doing it. | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | Doc: You are correct. Which means all nominees will run for both bodies... and all votes will match. | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | the election will prove this point, via the community making that choice. | 22:23 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I don't think it's that simple | 22:24 |
| Woody14619 | Much as it made the point that the community still wanted 2 bodies (Council/Board) when presented with that option 6 months ago, as others were 100% sure Council was no longer needed. | 22:24 |
| Woody14619 | Several people spoke on that point, that splitting the two had no real reason. I'd say the past 6 months has panned out otherwise... no? | 22:25 |
| Woody14619 | So let the community decide again. | 22:25 |
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| Woody14619 | But like I said.. if ANYONE has a better idea... I'm all ears. | 22:25 |
| kerio | for instance, stopping this bullshit and just restating that the "hildon foundation council" *is* the maemo community council | 22:26 |
| thedead1440 | like qwazix said; his idea is a referendum that simply kicks BoD out | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if there weren't been 2 entities, then today what would we have? a HiFo with no council or a council with no HiFo? | 22:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Realistically, is anyone willing to A. sue Rob in US court in the state where HiFo is incorporated, and hope we can win on that turf, proving he got the bylaws wrong, or B. hire an assassin and/or otherwise remove him from the Board? Because aside from that, how exactly, aside from convincing him (which doesn't seem to work) do you propose we get him to stop being Board? | 22:26 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I think that that is pretty irrelevant. I think that it would still be better if it was one body with cooperating members. | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet on the latter, and I think we'd be better off with that | 22:26 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: he misrepresented the HiFo BoD in the press release | 22:27 |
| * thedead1440 is out of ideas... | 22:27 | |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Really? Do you think things would have been different if there was just Board? | 22:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: The latter didn't work for transfering Maemo assets from Nokia to community, due to legalistic technicalities. | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council as well could become a legal entity | 22:29 |
| qwazix | May be, for example we may have been 7 board members and have a possibility to kick Rob out. I'm not saying that's for sure, but I think that splitting the bodies made things harder due to miscommunication | 22:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: To prove he misrepresented it, you have to prove his intepretation of the facts is the wrong one, and we're back to proving that. | 22:29 |
| Woody14619 | Yes Doc, we could have. The founders (Me, Ivan & Rob) could have just become Board. | 22:29 |
| qwazix | We wouldn't have to wait for SD69, we could approved sysops by majority easily | 22:29 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Would you have run for Board if Council was not in last cycle? Would MT have? Niel? | 22:30 |
| thedead1440 | everybody lets stop hypothetical scenarios! | 22:30 |
| Woody14619 | Because nobody else stepped forward. | 22:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: I would've run for both bodies if I was allowed. | 22:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | You might recall I put my candidacy in late. | 22:30 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I don't know, probably not, but that is **just** what I am saying. My scenario is just as hypothetical as yours | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: sorry I don't get your question | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what means >>if Council was not in last cycle<<? | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council never was in last cycle | 22:32 |
| qwazix | It might be that SD69 would be a bigger problem if it was only Board, it might be he was a lesser problem due to being a smaller percentage and not having the possibility to veto as he has now. | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if i have any idea what that means | 22:32 |
| Woody14619 | There were people saying there was no need for Board AND Council. (MMC or HFC), and that it should all just be Board. | 22:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Qwazix said if there was no Council last election, more people would've possibly ran for Board. So woody asked qwazix if he would've ran for Board if there was no Council to run for last election. | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever said council should stop to exist (after learning a bit about it). It would BOEARD that wouldn't exist | 22:33 |
| Woody14619 | During the formation of the ByLaws... many were claiming just that... No need for Council, just boot it and elect one body: Board. | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 22:33 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, a legal entity requires a board | 22:33 |
| qwazix | so council would be board anyway | 22:33 |
| qwazix | it's not the names that matter, it's if it was one or two bodie | 22:34 |
| qwazix | s | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? call the baby "maemo community council (incl "the board") " | 22:34 |
| Woody14619 | My point being, people said 2 is too many, only need 1. We held elections and let the candidates and voters decide that. | 22:34 |
| qwazix | That's what I think that would *maybe* be more agile than the current misadventure | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as it's now we have a bord that's totally completely detached from, and not under control of the community | 22:34 |
| qwazix | ^^ that | 22:35 |
| Woody14619 | There were lots of dual candidates... voters chose to split it so only one wound up overlapping. | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and planning shit like ubuntu phone | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and killing maemo.org | 22:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Wouldn't have solved much - if the same people got voted in. If we had done what you proposed, we'd just have a council that's totally detached from and not under control of the community. | 22:35 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, lots of dual candidates? | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the point is, other people would have been voted in, and other rules would apply | 22:36 |
| qwazix | Except ivan who else was dual? | 22:36 |
| Woody14619 | doc was, at least at one point... | 22:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: I was dual, but my BoD candidacy was rejected. | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope I wasn't | 22:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Because late.) | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Rob bullied me out | 22:36 |
| Woody14619 | You announced and then recinded... | 22:37 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ah, so ultimately it *is* your fault! :P | 22:37 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, maybe we would be a bigger council and able to outshout the detached members | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk, ping me if you need sth from me | 22:37 |
| Woody14619 | point being, the only one not in for Board last cycle was you qwazix. Maybe Niel? | 22:37 |
| kerio | anyway, am i seeing it right that rob is the only one in the HiFo BoD right now? | 22:37 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, point being the only actual being ivan. | 22:37 |
| Woody14619 | No. | 22:37 |
| qwazix | yes. Doc wasn't in the ballots | 22:38 |
| Woody14619 | Kerio: I and JimJ are also on Board.. What makes you say only Rob? | 22:38 |
| qwazix | MT wasn't in the ballots | 22:38 |
| qwazix | Texrat wasn't for council | 22:38 |
| qwazix | Tim wasn't for council | 22:38 |
| kerio | Woody14619: http://hildonfoundation.org/about/ | 22:38 |
| qwazix | There was one dual and got voted in | 22:38 |
| Woody14619 | No.. wasn't saying no to you qwazix, was to kerio | 22:38 |
| qwazix | oh sorry | 22:38 |
| qwazix | In any way, this is futile. I wasn't unhappy with two bodies anyway, just saying | 22:39 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, I get that.. My point is if we had onnly one election, for Board, MT would have been to late to enter, Doc would have probably still been out.. The only unknow would have been you. | 22:40 |
| qwazix | I AM unhappy with 3 bodies though. Severely unhappy | 22:40 |
| Woody14619 | Which again.. I believe community will resolve by voting the same group into both bodies... mission accomplished. | 22:40 |
| Woody14619 | And if I'm wrong, then the community gets what it wants... Either way I'm happy. | 22:40 |
| Woody14619 | And if the same candidates then all want to run for Board... and it goes to 1 lot... well, there again, if the community wants that, there they go. | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i'm not | 22:41 |
| qwazix | I would really want to share your happiness, but something doesn't smell right here... | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think I will run for THREE entities | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't handle that | 22:42 |
| Woody14619 | If you onnly see them as one to start with, what's the difference? | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so rather I run for none | 22:42 |
| Woody14619 | I don't think the auto shop should have 3 unions... one for management, one for workers and one for repairmen. If everyone believes that and all elect the same representative, is it really 3 unions? | 22:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Depends what angle you look at the result from. You end up with 1 union ran by three sets of equally applicable and binding rules. | 22:44 |
| Woody14619 | I agree... can be tricky. But then I kind of like the idea of dragging MCC rules into HFC. Since HFC has nothing in it (inately anyway) about refereundums or the lot. | 22:46 |
| Woody14619 | Anyway... I've delivered the news. It's up to you lot to decide what to do next. I've said where I stand and where I think things should go. But it's up to you at this point. And I'm willing to try even not quite sane things if it's decided it's a better way to go. | 22:47 |
| Woody14619 | Be that calling Jim, resigning, whatever... | 22:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | How is this going to be made clear in voting? | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: if I toss out 200EUR/month for a server @ hetzner, and convince a brilliant techstaff team *I* built up (yeah, I know I'm a humbe sucker) to move over there, what will we lose? Nokia's sacraments and maemo.org domain. I probably could live without both of it | 22:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I suspect many voters will come in with no knowledge of the situation | 22:48 |
| qwazix | GeneralAntilles, true | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on the bargain side: no more Rob that kills me every single day during last 3 months | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just hypothetically | 22:48 |
| qwazix | and utterly confused by the thousand announcements about different elections | 22:48 |
| Woody14619 | IF they come with no clue, they will have missed the thousand annoucements. | 22:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is politics | 22:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is not helping the community get what it needs | 22:49 |
| Woody14619 | Besides, we've yet to send tokens... That e-mail is the thing that informs the votes most. | 22:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Woody, personally, I don't like the MCC rules pulled into HFC, honestly. Which is why I viewed the merge MCC into HFC referendum as eliminating the MCC at a technical level, while combining them at a 'meaningful' level. But no one else seemed to see the point of the referendum that way.) DocScrutinizer05: You and any individual could live without both just fine. The community as a ... | 22:50 |
| qwazix | Most people won't know that they are deciding if we need 3 bodies or not, maybe they want to vote for more people and just see more seats as opportunity to reward more members | 22:50 |
| Woody14619 | GA: again, if you have a better idea, please, speak up... | 22:50 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... whole, far less so. | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nobody outside of a dozen or so individuals has the time or energy to invest in these ganes | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not versed enough with the ByLaws to see the issue with what was proposed before | 22:51 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Which is why a summary, in that e-mail, is important. | 22:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nor have I had time to listen to 2 hours of audio | 22:51 |
| Woody14619 | Again, minutes will be forthcoming. But just as you don't have time to listen to 2 hours or talk, I don't have time right now to write them up while announcing an election, and trying to fix the voting machine to include new users.... | 22:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, not addressing any of this to you personally | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look, IF BoD wanted HFC==MCC they could have done that by simple appointment. Since they didn't, who is council to try and force that onto BoD? | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think this won't pan out, another time | 22:54 |
| Woody14619 | I have noted: I am willing to add an after-page to the MCC/ HFC election in the voting booth to give option to people to "copy" their MCC or HFC vote directly to the other election. Select Yes, you vote equally on both. Select No, you have the option of choosing another set in election #2. | 22:54 |
| Woody14619 | that should ease the "pain" of election fatigue. | 22:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: I approve of doing that. | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and i'm NOT going to have a membership in THREE entities, and hand that shit down to my successors in 6 months (assuming I would get elected) | 22:55 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, can we live another 7 months without HiFo funds? | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fuck HiFo | 22:56 |
| Woody14619 | Then in that 6 months, you could propose a change to blend all 3 together. | 22:56 |
| qwazix | Ok, lets ban SD from *all* community comm channels, and ignore him | 22:56 |
| qwazix | in 7 months he will be forced to hold elections anyway | 22:56 |
| Woody14619 | On the current track he'll be forced to in 2 weeks. Why wait 7 months? | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because we don't believe in that 2 weeks anymore | 22:57 |
| qwazix | Because, as I said, I don't believe that he doesn't have a plan | 22:57 |
| Woody14619 | And it's only to November, not years end. :) | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got burnt fingers from last try | 22:57 |
| Woody14619 | Sigh. | 22:57 |
| qwazix | and because we would look like fools succumbing to his will to create a monstrosity with 3 bodies that will "grow to being more than maemo.org" | 22:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: I disapprove of that measure. (If in the next two weeks, things don't pan out as they ought to, I might change my mind.) | 22:58 |
| MentalistTraceur | (If it so happens he really does have some conspiratorial plan) | 22:58 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, you should have listened to that meeting | 22:58 |
| qwazix | it was so depressing... | 22:58 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Either way... what would be different? Doingyour plan vs just "banning" Board and running the clock out? | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm afk again, I don't feel like contributing anything useful. Make your move whatever that is, I will tell you what's my consequences from that | 22:59 |
| qwazix | I'm inclined to do the same being unable to offer something more than my frustration | 22:59 |
| qwazix | I understand that I am not being helpful here | 22:59 |
| qwazix | and I apologize | 22:59 |
| Woody14619 | You're frustrated... we all are to some degree. | 23:00 |
| Woody14619 | That's natural. | 23:00 |
| qwazix | but I still can't fathom it being Rob's puppet | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I promised to stand and fight for community's rights and assets for 6 months. That term ends in 2 weeks, by whatever means | 23:00 |
| Woody14619 | The thing I worry about now is, what if nobody runs for anything? | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'll see in a few eeks? | 23:01 |
| Woody14619 | We've had two self-noms for Council, both under 50 Karma. | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly can't bother anymore | 23:01 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, if nobody runs for anything it's clearly our fault from boring them to death with this | 23:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | Look, my vote is we accept this thing from the Board (to hell with 'looking like fools', we make it clear we still think Rob is wrong in an announcement, and that we're taking this option to try to make things smoother/easier for the community by reducing further politics/bickering). | 23:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | If that's not a popular sentiment, then I have to wonder out loud if Woody and Jim are likely to agree to a community desire to have them vote Rob out of his directorship. | 23:03 |
| kerio | my .02 goes to banning and ignoring rob | 23:03 |
| Woody14619 | MentalistTraceur: There are other consiquences to that. | 23:04 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, after todays meeting I think it is unlikely that Jim will vote Rob out | 23:04 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix, I disagree. I don't think he'd be willing to do it in the next 2 weeks. But if another stall tactic is played? | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: +1 | 23:05 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, you probably know better | 23:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio (and anyone else supporting just outright Rob from every means of communicating with the community): That's the way of dictatorial governments - silencing and cutting off the opposition (even if it's for good intentions - afterall, most such acts are). There are times when it's ethically acceptable, but I do not think we are at that point yet. | 23:06 |
| kerio | i see it more like the behaviour of a surgeon cutting off a tumor | 23:06 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 looks at this meeting, without blaming anybody, ponders who caused all this, turns away weeping and puking | 23:06 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Save the for somebody clearly acting in bad faith. | 23:07 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, you have a point there. We can still ignore him without banning him :) | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw what communication of Rob to community?? are you nuts? | 23:08 |
| qwazix | rotfl | 23:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | To my earlier point about what helps the community. This is the hand that's been dealt, how do you best play it to ensure the infrastructure stays upup and there's recourse for individuals to redress their representatives moving forward? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WE SUCKERS are the only ones listening to him | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as we stop that, do you think ANYBODY in community will bother about HiFo or Rob? | 23:09 |
| qwazix | +1 | 23:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: About HiFo yes. About the HiFo BoD probably. About Rob, maybe not, although I assure you there's probably people, less visible to us, in the community, who support his take on things. | 23:10 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Listen to meeting audio: Offset 16:40. JimJ talks about elections and his position on Board. | 23:10 |
| Woody14619 | I don't think we have worries when it comes to Jim. | 23:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Can someone PM me a link to the audio? | 23:11 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, ok, but I'm in a noisy env. right now, I will listen to it later | 23:11 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, maemo.qwazix.com/Concert-oh_Meeting_Rec_1852076.zip | 23:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thank you. | 23:12 |
| Woody14619 | And 19:40... | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can somebody create a transcript of that please? | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are many (incl me) who have difficulties undertsnading non-pidgin english speakers | 23:13 |
| Woody14619 | Jim states he'd prefer to step down to make way for community members with merrit. | 23:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Transcript is a 4 hour job | 23:14 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, just to be clear I do believe that you probably know better, idk if the language barrier made that statement look like sarcasm or something | 23:14 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix, no I get that. Was just trying to give you an sample of where I'm getting that from. | 23:15 |
| * Woody14619 just not realizes he's had no lunch... as his office mate is leaving for the day. | 23:15 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: It's probably best to ask him directly - if he would support a reelection if, come two weeks or so from now or whenever the next Council tries to do the reelection, Rob threw a spanner in the works again. | 23:15 |
| kerio | i just don't get what's in for rob by doing this | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: so now you found my secret how to keep at BMI=17 | 23:16 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, 17 ?!? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 17.0 | 23:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, so my proposal is we take the Board-proposed move for now, election wise (announce it as us accepting their proposal as a compromise, not because we think Rob's interpretation is right, but in the interest of simplifying things.) If it turns out that Rob is plotting something, I'm sure the next Council and the rest of Board will tear him a new one. | 23:17 |
| qwazix | (and I thought that keeping 25.0 was a hard work) | 23:18 |
| kerio | yeah, because that worked well before | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 23:18 |
| Woody14619 | kerio: you have a better idea? | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yet I don't see anything else to do | 23:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: Clarify. When before have we done something along those lines? Unless you mean the wait-to-push-red-button wait, in which case, different waits, on my end, for somewhat different reasons. | 23:19 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we could set up a paypal account to get donations to pay for a hitman | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except tell Nokia that community has no board that Nokia could hand maemo assets to, to donate it TO COMMUNITY | 23:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | (..and also different in terms of position of legalistic validity.) | 23:19 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: And now you know why my BMI is 37.... same thing, different approach. :P | 23:20 |
| kerio | haha | 23:20 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: I don't think asking Nokia to stop is a way to go. Do that and we may never get those. They may in fact pull the plug on the whole thing. | 23:21 |
| Woody14619 | Besides... It hasn't been handled in 4 months. What makes you think it will happen in the next 2 weeks? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, most likely it would nuke stuff for good | 23:21 |
| *** MentalistTraceur has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
| Woody14619 | Wow... BMI charts are odd. Says over 220# for me is "obese", but my trainer says if I was at 0% body fat I'd be at 230#. | 23:25 |
| Woody14619 | How could be be obease and 0% body fat? | 23:25 |
| qwazix | The other thing I hate (I said that before but I want it to be here on the log) is changing the tune right now. It might be true but I've seen too many politicians change tunes for the sake of the $people and it sounds like a lame political excuse to my ears. | 23:26 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, BMI doesn't take into account many things | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Averages, Woody14619 | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | BMI charts don't factor in body composition | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: 0% and you'd be dead | 23:27 |
| *** MentalistTraceur has joined #maemo-meeting | 23:28 | |
| GeneralAntilles | qwazix, not a change of tune, but doing what has to be done for the health of the community? | 23:28 |
| Woody14619 | GeneralAntilles: No... I was at 0% until I was 22. :) 6', 97# from 19 to 23. | 23:28 |
| Woody14619 | Though I was severly hypoglycemic. | 23:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | Fucking internet connection. | 23:30 |
| qwazix | GeneralAntilles, Rob is wrong MCC=HFC + elections for BoD is clearly a different tune from vote for HFC and make sure you vote the same for MCC and then we will do board election if the elected HFC agrees to it. | 23:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | USA's internet providers all deserve to be lined up and sumarily executed. | 23:30 |
| qwazix | the second tune is clearly == "Rob was right" | 23:31 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: get a bouncer! | 23:31 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, from what I read they do. | 23:31 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix, It's nothing to do with if HFC agrees to it. It's that they have to make the legal document to set election standards for HF. | 23:31 |
| qwazix | Mobile Carriers even more so | 23:31 |
| Woody14619 | Once that's im place, I'm calling for elections again, and there's no excuses left. | 23:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Yes. kerio: This would help me with the issue of having intermittent connections to the internet at large how? | 23:32 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: Yes... on mobil carriers... | 23:32 |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 23:32 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Woody14619: Yes on both mobile and 'vanilla' internet ISPs, honestly. | 23:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | At least all the big ones. | 23:32 |
| Woody14619 | So, I have this voting booth I have to go monkey with... | 23:33 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, a bouncer on a cheap vps in europe :) | 23:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Though I have a highly positive opinion on Sprint, but they do CDMA instead of GSM so they're useless to me.) | 23:33 |
| Woody14619 | I hope to have the full voting table ready by tomorrow... | 23:33 |
| Woody14619 | Council needs to word the letter to go out with tokens... for the referendum at the very least. | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: obviously the plans are not widely understood so far, so please take the burden to again explain them to the gory details, from step one | 23:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Oh, gotcha. Still, my anger was more at intermittent connection overall. | 23:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woody14619, some other measurement system, then. True 0% is dead. :P | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I also understood that next HFC would need to call for BoD elections again | 23:37 |
| Woody14619 | GeneralAntilles, well, excluding keytones... | 23:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Just fyi guys, it's taken me all the spare time I think I'll have this week to just come here today. So if I haven't mailed out drafts for all the relevant announcements/etc that we need to make this week by the end of the weekend, assume I'm incapacitated and feel free to write them up without me. | 23:37 |
| Woody14619 | Not ifI get there first DocScrutinizer05. :) | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so please let's get this utterly straight, for the sake of everybody not suffering even more confusion on top of the mess we already have | 23:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: As I understood it: Woody will try to get the Board their own elections by then. But, if that fails, the next HFC will have to do it. But at least the next Council will be officially the HFC from Rob's perspective, so he can't deny that election call. | 23:39 |
| Woody14619 | Just sent mail to council with draft of the token ail I made before this... | 23:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | If I misunderstood, then the first part is wrong, but the part about HFC is true. | 23:40 |
| Woody14619 | MentalistTraceur: Assuming I don't just turn to Jim to nuke... | 23:40 |
| Woody14619 | And/or he goes there. | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my question still stands: why was board not able to appoint HFC==MCC, when we alread are about to vote on that premise anyway, in 2 weeks | 23:44 |
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| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: You mean during this meeting? | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | such election as proposed now still leaves us with THREE entities | 23:45 |
| Woody14619 | Because Jim was confused on it and Rob went off in left field until he dropped and had to go. Despire me trying to interupt a few times. | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and they will stay three entities, or precisely two discrete segregate council entities, no matter how identical the votes, the candidates, the rules, whatnot | 23:47 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: and to be clear, even then we'd still have 3 enties. Since that appointment would have been for you 3 for the rest of your term. | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see that# | 23:48 |
| Woody14619 | And would have still been 3 entities, until a referendum is passed to make MCC into HFC, and HFC adopts all rules of MCC. | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when HiFo declares MCC==HFC then that applies forever, no? | 23:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Aiui the MCC entity can only be ended from the MCC side. That, in my perception, was what the referendum we launched was supposed to do. 'End' the MCC entity formally, and acknowledge that the community saw the HFC as the continuation in spirit of the MCC. | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I think we are already running a referendum that makes all MCC rules in line with HFC rules, so MCC has no problem with that? | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: nobody is ending MCC entity | 23:49 |
| Woody14619 | Then there are 3. Just 2 are so tightly phase-locked that they are essentially one. | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MCC is accepting a new duty: HFC | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't end MCC | 23:50 |
| Woody14619 | IF you have 3 receiver chips, and run two off the same frequency clock, do you now have one chip? No.. Still two. | 23:50 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Yeah, I've noticed. But I stand by the argument I've made repeatedly that that was the more appropriate route, and the statement that as far as I was concerned, ending the MCC entity was the point of the referendum. | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, that's what? an analogy? | 23:51 |
| Woody14619 | Yes. | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MCC CAN NOT end itself | 23:51 |
| Woody14619 | Well, it can, but it woudl take a referendum, or a double-miss on an election followed by it and another group agreeing to it. | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the point of referendum is in getting rules to obey in line for both entities, so one physical entity can follow and execute both | 23:52 |
| Woody14619 | (That's the only rule standing to allow it now) | 23:52 |
| Woody14619 | Reguardless.... They are and will continue to be 3 entities... the question is if it will be 3 separate groups of people vs 2 (or 1). I'm willing to be the community will say 2. | 23:54 |
| Woody14619 | Short of bylaw changes, or MCC rule changes anyway. | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: when Mr Medorn gets appointed Director of Berlin Airport company, he isn't stopping his existence and job as Director of e.g. Deutsche Bahn | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | THAT's an analogy | 23:55 |
| Woody14619 | Correct. But legally, Deutsche Bahn!= Berlin Airport Company because of that. | 23:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: And the point of that was so we can clean up the mess of having two entities. As I've said before, if both council entities exist, there is still nothing in the referendum preventing me from choosing to run for just one of the Council entities. So long as it's MCC accepting the duty of being HFC, there is still nothing preventing anyone from technically trying to run ... | 23:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... for just one or the other. Also, if the current referendum passes, the MCC entity will be able to end itself, by having no one run for it (because we no longer need a Nokia representative to chip in on what happens.) | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless HiFo accepts/appoints "HFC *is defined* as MCC", we always will have 2 council entities that will have 2 unrelated elections and possibly unrelated members | 23:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | Which really was the endgame intent when this was discussed, both before and after the bylaws interpretation, 2 councils mess - to have a transition period of 'MCC=HFC' for a term, then have just HFC continue. | 23:57 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: Which is something HFC can in many ways do... | 23:58 |
| * qwazix yawns | 23:58 | |
| Woody14619 | K... I've been in a meeting all day. I need to get in 3 hours of work and would like to eat before 8pm. So I really need to go. | 23:58 |
| Woody14619 | Plus I still want to get the stupid election list setup right so we can do any of this. We need to send tokens this weekend... | 23:59 |
| Woody14619 | So please, someone on Council, (or kerio, fk if I care) look at the token letter, adjust and mail me with it or update it in the admin pages. | 23:59 |
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