IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2012-08-31

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merlin1991shouldn't something be happening now?16:17
ZogG_laptopwht time is it?16:19
ZogG_laptoputc i mean16:19
merlin1991utc? nfc16:19
ZogG_laptop13:19 Friday (GMT) - Time in Coordinated Universal Time16:19
ZogG_laptopit should start at 15 afaik and 18 afaik16:19
merlin1991what's @ 18 ?16:20
ZogG_laptopmcoucil meeting16:21
ZogG_laptopcouncil meeting*16:21
merlin1991well @ 15 I'll probably will be far away from irc16:21
ZogG_laptopwhat is schedualed for 15?16:23
merlin1991party with X-Fade16:24
merlin1991but somehow I had the feeling it should be cet16:24
merlin1991ZogG_laptop: or did you mean what I have scheduled for 15?16:25
ZogG_laptopnow i want to know both16:26
merlin1991probably drinks :D16:27
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merlin1991I'm on holiday after all16:33
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: drink for me as well :P16:37
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merlin1991hm despite all odds im here, nothing happening though18:02
ivgalvezX-Fade merlin1991 how is the transition of some administrative rights on repositories going?18:06
X-FadeI added merlin1991 to the admins group in midgard and he should be able to promote/delete packages.18:07
* merlin1991 checks18:07
ivgalvezwhat about granting maintenance?18:07
ivgalvezfor example, today marmistrz reports problems with that:
X-FadeThe server is still a shared server for Nokia things, so that is a bit tricky.18:08
ivgalvezregarding voting mechanism, how difficult would it be to set up new votings in the near future?18:10
merlin1991X-Fade: I still don't see any buttons to promote/delete packages18:10
X-Fademerlin1991: Hmm that is really strange.18:11
ivgalvezwe have approaching new Councli election, voting to approve by-laws document and coding competition that woud need to set up the system18:11
X-FadeI can setup an election for the council.18:14
X-FadeHow would the voting for the by-laws work?18:14
ivgalvezI think a simple yes or no would be enough18:15
ivgalvezsort of referndum18:15
ivgalvezwe could do that at the same time than Council election to avoid wasting time18:15
ivgalvezif that is possible at all18:15
X-FadeNeed to check if it can do single instances too.18:17
X-FadeI think so.18:17
ivgalvezthat would be great, then the remaining voting problem might be Coding Competiton18:18
ivgalvezif you are not able to set it up, is it possible to gran t permission to anyone else to do it?18:18
X-FadeYeah, just need to see if the voting software isn't modified so that the other forms of voting don't work anymore.18:20
ivgalvezCoding competition end is approaching I think September 10th18:21
ivgalvezwhile Concil and by-laws could be organised for beginning of October18:21
ivgalvezI hope it's suitable for you18:22
X-FadeNeed to see how that fits in as I'm traveling that week18:23
X-FadeBut maybe I can prepare some things this week already.18:23
ivgalvezplease send me an email if there is any problem18:24
ivgalvezanother question, do you think it would be possible to grant more administrative rights to merlin1991 or to add more administrators to the tema?18:24
ivgalvezwe are running out of time to start the transition18:25
X-FadeWhat kind of administrative rights are we talking about?18:25
SD69I'd like lma to be able to start administering the diablo repos18:27
ivgalvezwhatever thatcould be possible to ease the transition. I don't know, Wiki administration, Downloads section, IRC, autobuilder...18:28
ivgalvezadministration of repositories applies to all repos? (freemantle, diablo...)18:29
ivgalvezthen adding lma to the list of administrators would help18:29
ivgalvezhowever we first need to see merlin1991 permissions working18:29
X-FadeIt would also be good to know where the services will be hosted.18:30
X-FadeI guess figuring that out is one of the first things we should do.18:30
SD69X-Fade: all thought all hosting was being moved to Nemein?18:31
X-FadeSD69: Yeah, but that is not all done.18:32
X-FadeSD69: So everything runs at the old location still.18:33
ivgalvezWe'll contact Nokia about that thenç18:33
SD69Is there an eta for completion?18:33
X-FadeSD69: No, there have been a lot of issues due to people at Nokia leaving.18:35
ivgalvezyou probably don't even know who to speak with each day, it's really pity18:35
X-Fadeivgalvez: Yes, I have for instance a lot of ssl certificates which expire/have expired and I have no-one who can extend them for me.18:36
SD69Have you received the three servers from Nokia on behalf of -
X-FadeNo, that has not happened.18:37
SD69oh boy...18:37
SD69X-Fade: would it helped if council followed up with Nokia, or might we confuse matters more if we did that?18:38
X-FadeSD69: I hope that Nokia is willing to support the community in that way. A lof of stuff has happened lately.18:39
SD69X-Fade:  Right, I think we would like to get those 3 servers sooner rather than later, because we might not be able to get them later with all the changes going on18:41
SD69Also, so we know we at least have the hw we need come end of 201218:41
X-FadeThere are not a whole lot of people left.18:41
ivgalvezThat's right, and we should be able to administrate them with a pool of volunteers so we can move the resources when needed18:42
X-FadeYes, that is why I think we need to have a plan where to host after the end of the year.18:43
X-FadeAnd how to finance the hosting etc.18:43
SD69X-Fade: I am assuming Nemein, or do you mean physical location?18:44
ivgalvezthe problem with that decision is that first we need to vote for by-laws and form legal entity18:44
ivgalvezto be able also to handle donations18:44
X-FadeSD69: Well, it all depends on what gets decided.18:44
ivgalvezbut that should be within a month18:44
SD69X-Fade: the decision on what, exactly?18:45
ivgalvezin the meantime we need to start administrating services otherwise the transition will be too rude18:45
X-FadeI would start any migration to a new place at least in the beginning of November.18:45
ivgalvezbeginning of November sounds fine18:45
X-FadeSo before that time there needs to be a clear decision if the services remain at Nemein or go somewhere else.18:45
SD69X-Fade:  do you decide that or do we need to talk to Henri?18:46
X-FadeSD69: The council needs to decide that, I'm not going to pay for it :)18:46
ivgalvezwe will need a budget18:46
X-FadeSD69: The council/ NFP is customer in this case.18:47
ivgalvezbut Council can¡'t pay, first we need to become legal entity and elect Board, that could be done beginning of October so a decission could be made in the first  half of October18:47
X-FadeI'll just facilitate in whatever is needed to move. (if needed)18:47
ivgalvezto decide we will need to know the budget though18:47
X-Fadeivgalvez: Yeah, for the budget from Nemein, you need to talk to Henri.18:48
X-FadeI honestly don't know what hosting costs for them.18:48
ivgalvezunless it's really expensive, more sane approach would be to continue with Nemein18:49
SD69X-Fade: Nemein might not be interested in hosting + minimal services18:50
X-FadeSD69: I have no idea, that is really a business decision. I try to stay away from those.18:51
ivgalvezWe'll talk to Henri about that18:51
X-FadeLet's just agree that we need to have decision by half november.18:52
X-Fadeehm, beginning of November.18:52
ivgalvezOK, let's try to summarise18:53
X-FadeSo that if hosting will not be at Nemein, we have time enough to do a proper move.18:53
SD69I hope we can cutover before the holidays rather than on Dec 31 or Jan 118:53
SD69so we can all enjoy the holidays18:54
X-FadeYep :)18:54
SD69X-Fade:  do you happen to know if Nokia is paid through the end of 2012?18:56
X-FadeSD69: You mean servers?18:57
SD69I mean the services contract with Nemein18:57
SD69if so, this is easy - they just sign over the contract to us18:57
SD69but if, for example, they still have to pay 5000 euros for Oct-Dec, then we can't transfer the contract cause we can't afford that kind of money18:58
X-FadeYes, I believe that is still active.18:58
X-FadeAfaik you should start to worry about 2013, everything in 2012 will be payed for by Nokia still.18:59
SD69of course, the big issue is the budget for 201319:00
SD69X-Fade:  Is the new location near Helsinki or Tampere?19:01
X-FadeSD69: Why does it matter? It is all virtual machines anyway? :P19:02
SD69I as assuming we get the 3 hw servers from Nokia and that we will want to have a community member with admin rights near them19:03
X-FadeAh, worry about it when you get them :)19:03
ivgalvezso, just to clarify, where are all Maemo services hosted? VM or real hhardware?19:04
X-Fadeivgalvez: It is a mixture19:04
ivgalvezand are these machines hosting anything else than Maemo related stuff?19:04
X-FadeCurrently they also host and tablets-dev etc.19:04
X-Fadeand harmattan-dev19:04
ivgalvezwhat is the future of them?19:05
X-Fadebit bucket?19:05
ivgalvezI assume they are as doomed as us19:05
merlin1991luckily harmattan-dev has a dl all docs button19:05
X-FadeI guess that nokia will move the docs to some where else, but I have not spoken about that.19:05
ivgalvezcan we take over of is anyone else involved on that?19:07
X-FadeI'm sorry but I need to wrap up soon.19:07
ivgalvezOK, let's summarise then19:07
ivgalvez- Council will talk to Henri, from Nemein, to know the required budget for hosting Maemo services.19:07
ivgalvez- Council elections might take place beginning October, we'll need X-Fade support to setup voting process.19:07
ivgalvez- By-laws approval might take place beginning October at the same time than Council election, we'll need X-Fade support to setup voting process.19:07
ivgalvez- Coding Competition will need voting mechanism by mid September, we'll need X-Fade support to setup voting process.19:07
ivgalvez- New Council, if by laws are approved should decide about keeping servers with Nemein by end October, so a proper decision about continuing with Nemein will be ready beginning November.19:07
ivgalvez- Servers are paid by Nokia until the end of December so contract could be transferred to legal entity in the beginning of November.19:07
ivgalvez- If decided, migration could begin in November, to avoid getting too close to December and holidays.19:07
ivgalvezAre you all OK wit that?19:07
merlin1991repo issue still not resolved19:08
ivgalvezin the meantime, X-Fade, would it be possible to grant as much administrative privileges as possible to a dedicated group of volunteers beginning with merlin1991?19:09
ivgalvezwe could start separating services for Maemo from those that are Nokia's19:09
X-Fadeivgalvez: Yeah, I need to figure out why it isn't working as merlin1991 should have it already.19:09
ivgalvezcan we schedule next meeting for next week?19:10
ivgalvezX-Fade, anytime you can19:10
X-Fadeyeah, let's keep it on the same time.19:11
ivgalvezthank you very much Niels19:12
X-FadeI'really need to go. Ping me through email if you need anything.19:12
ivgalvezmerlin1991 thanks for coming19:12
ivgalvezsee you19:12
SD69thanks Niels19:13
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ZogG_laptopi missed :(20:05
ZogG_laptopdamn, noone talked about apps4meego :(20:09
ZogG_laptopoh, there is msg there :P20:09
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: ping20:10
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ZogG_laptopno meeting today?21:23
ZogG_laptopSD69: Woody14619 ?21:24
ZogG_laptopi see ivgalvez was here at 18 and left21:27
ZogG_laptopSD69: so as no meeting here, at least can i ask few question?21:27
SD69I guess so21:28
ZogG_laptopSD69: 1) what would be the future of apps4meego? would it be ported/moved as cobs with garage merge?21:30
ZogG_laptopand was the voting thing was resolved with x-fade meeting?21:30
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Woody14619ahello.  sorry for lateness.  traffic was insane.21:31
SD69I am not involved with apps4meego21:32
ZogG_laptopWoody14619a: as i said previously i think ivgalvez was here at 18 sharp and left21:32
SD69X-Fade was not definitive about the voting for coding competition21:33
ZogG_laptopSD69: it's just if you'll have next meeting with X-Fade :)21:33
Woody14619ayeah. I mailed that I may be late...21:34
SD69I was here too21:34
Woody14619aseems my work machine is still on too. :P probably confusing21:34
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Woody14619aso, was there any decission on which direction we're going with for elections?21:35
ZogG_laptopWoody14619a: no i'm talking about migration21:38
SD69nothing decided on voting21:38
SD69we found out that the 3 servers Nokia said on June 25 they were planning to buy for have not been delivered yet to Nemein21:39
ZogG_laptopis it good or bad news?21:41
Woody14619ai'm catching up on the meeting this am now.21:41
Woody14619ak... so... we got nothing new. xfade has commited to handle election stuff for next council.21:45
ZogG_laptopbut coding competition?21:45
Woody14619agiven that, I'd really prefer that we do council and board election in parallel, since we may not get a second shot...21:45
ZogG_laptopwhta about reggie option(as i understand last one went this way too)21:46
Woody14619aAs I noted before, xfade was non-commital on CC, which seems to not have changed.21:46
ZogG_laptopWoody14619a: i think the better solution is start working on independed from anyone voting system, as community will need it at some point anyway21:47
Woody14619azogg, while I agree, we have enough going on as is right now.  once the foundation is in place, we should have more direct access to systems, which eliminates the issues we currently have.21:49
Woody14619abut as long as the servers are being paid for by Nokia & not us, we work with what we have.21:49
Woody14619amakes sense to me then to do the full setup in one shot, since we may not get another until the foundation has the keys.21:50
Woody14619abut I can't/won't make that call on my own.21:51
Woody14619aso, we'll follow up in e-mail & I'll do the announce monday.21:51
Woody14619awhich I really dislike to do.  But it's the only solution I see right now.21:52
ZogG_laptopWoody14619a: i think the point is to make own systems, and than after foundation to integrate them21:52
ZogG_laptopi don't see why we need exact things that were used till now as there always can be better solutions21:53
Woody14619ayou think wrong. the current aim is to inherit the existing systems, not make new ones.21:53
SD69AFAIK nokia is paying for services21:53
SD69I don't know if we will even have any servers after 12/31/201221:54
Woody14619abuilding something from scratch would be a ton more work.21:54
SD69but Nemein wants more $$ than we have, we won't have much choice21:54
Woody14619aagreed sd69.  the only solution I see right now is to setup the foundation & hope we can foot the bill.21:55
Woody14619aif not, maybe we can at least get the name/data/hardware? & try hosting it somewhere else...21:56
ZogG_laptopWoody14619a: true, i dont say reinvent wheel completely. but some things are opensource and can be improved, so my point is not to wait till we get access to the existings so we improve them but to maybe start working on improvements and then apply those on exisitng systems when we get access21:56
SD69I sent an email this morning explaining that we can get started on the foundation before the board and bylaws are decided21:56
Woody14619aI saw & replied....21:56
Woody14619azogg: you are welcome to do that....21:57
ZogG_laptopii think it's the time to start foundation, otherwise as i see on how many people it depend and how the communication due time is lack, better to start now and finish before it's time than to be late21:58
Woody14619azogg, we have been doing the work to start it since we took Council....21:58
ZogG_laptopi know21:59
Woody14619ak. I will follow up in e-mail. have to go now as battery is low & I need to get back on the road.21:59
ZogG_laptopand i don't mean anything bad by my statement, what i meant that it's better you try how foundation going now, than to make it ready for next council/board.22:00
Woody14619azogg: to do that we need to get bylaws done. and foundation can't legally do anything until it has an elected board.22:01
Woody14619athus my desire to start the election process....22:01
Woody14619abecause that will take a month as it stands.22:02
ZogG_laptopwhat about you being temp board?22:03
Woody14619anot legal.22:03
Woody14619aeven if it were, I wouldn't want to do that.22:04
Woody14619abattery is crit... got to go. will follow up tonight.22:04
Woody14619athanks to all for the earlier meetings & such.22:05
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