IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2020-12-13

CatButtsI am ever-so-slightly closer to getting my messy crosscompiler to work00:15
CatButtsso, #include <gtk/gtk.h> doesn't come through00:16
CatButtsbut it exists in includes/gtk-2.0/gtk.h00:17
CatButtsso this means I have to reach out to it with compiler option -IPATH/TO/GTKHEADERS00:18
CatButtsprobably with -I=/........00:18
CatButtsthe tricky bit is the =00:19
CatButtswith works as expected with some gcc kits, fails with others00:19
CatButts#include <gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h> is out of the question, as the other gtk headers will fail00:21
CatButtseh, I will figure it out eventually00:28
CatButts*but it exists in includes/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h00:30
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CatButtshildon is the N900's default UI, yes?00:51
CatButtsis it safe to assume that if I can see hildon, X server is running?00:51
CatButtsI want to try out XCB00:52
MaxdamantusYes, hildon runs on X.00:52
CatButtsaha, thanks00:53
Maxdamantusafaik, everything from the "three dots" in Maemo is running in X.00:53
Maxdamantuscan't remember if the nokia hands are before or after the dots (I disabled them), but that will be in X too.00:54
CatButtsthe three dots being?00:54
MaxdamantusAt some stage during booting, there should be an animation involving three dots in the middle of the screen.00:55
CatButtsah, 4 or 5 dots00:55
MaxdamantusScreen is black, but three large white dots flick on/off or something.00:55
Maxdamantusyeah, maybe 4 or 5, can't remember.00:55
CatButtstextured dots where light moves to next one and wraps to first00:56
infoboti heard boot-process is
infobotmethinks elf is the Executable and Linking Format .. it is a Binary format used by System V Release 4 Unix. It is also the prefered binary format in Linux. or the little people.  There are three kind of elven: Noldor, Sindar and Wood elven01:04
CatButtsin context of compiling software, an elf .so can be both linked against dynamically, or statically brought into the program, yes?01:04
CatButtsso, in windows terms, a windows .dll and a compiler lib01:06
Maxdamantus".so" specifically means "shared object", so it's only meant to be used for dynamic linking.01:16
Maxdamantuslibraries that are meant to be statically linked normally end in ".o", and they're usually packaged in some archive file that end in ".a"01:17
MaxdamantusI think Windows has that distinction too, where static libraries are ".lib" or something.01:20
CatButtsaha, so, .so don't double as "dlls" and libs01:21
MaxdamantusThey are libs, but they're meant to be linked dynamically, not statically.01:21
CatButtsso, just the dll part01:22
MaxdamantusSure, where "dll" afaik stands for "dynamically linked library"01:23
* Maxdamantus doesn't know too much about Windows usage nowadays.01:24
CatButtsI'm kinda drunk, I should continue tomorrow01:24
sixwheeledbeastcomparing linux and windows like that is difficult as they do that stuff completely differently.01:44
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sixwheeledbeastPackage management and dependencies mean the concept of a DLL isn't a thing.01:52
CatButtswhat's package management?01:53
* CatButts loads everything relative to current directory01:53
CatButts*relative to application's executing directory01:54
CatButtsthat's win9x mentality01:55
CatButtswith advent of NT, you gots things like "documents and settings" per-user profile folder doohickey thing01:56
CatButtsor whatever they decided to rename it to vista+01:56
CatButtsand now, "program files" folder is read-only(you can write with special privileges)01:57
CatButtsas if to discourage the win9x mentality01:57
CatButtsloads-a-bollocks, if ya ask me01:59
CatButtslinux mentality resembles NT one, I suppose, but is waaay more compartimentalized02:04
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CatButts"this part of the application goes into bin X, this one in bin Y, and this in Z"02:05
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CatButtsthe config, the main application, and whatever .so it may depend on02:06
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CatButtsin NT, the separation is partial, with each application(say if built with Qt) having duplicates of same dlls in each appfolder02:07
CatButtsbut settings get put in dedicated place02:07
CatButtsI am alligned to win9x mentality, where app and its folder of gubbins are self-sufficient02:08
MaxdamantusKind of like gobolinux afaik.02:13
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luke-jrsixwheeledbeast: lolwut no07:30 = .dll07:30
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sixwheeledbeastoh? seems i misunderstand then?12:34
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siceloCatButts: actually the windows and linux way here are mostly the same. you just 'notice' the .so situation on linux because most of the dlls on windows are part of the base system (shipped by MS). but they're there, and equally important13:46
sicelo"this part of the application goes into bin X, this one in bin Y, and this in Z" - this also happens on windows too. hence when you uninstall an application that installed extra dlls, it typically notifies you if it seems those dlls are used by other applications as well13:48
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siceloplease help me with building kernel for N900. it seems to all be going well, until i get this,
bencohis that leste or maemo5/KP kernel?18:07
sicelomainline :)18:09
bencohold toochain maybe?18:09
bencohs/old/broken/ even18:10
siceloi would like to think the compiler is fine. most likely i have bad kernel config and/or sources, since i might have been merging stuff wrong :p18:18
sicelolet me try this first,
siceloif that doesn't work, guess i need to try a simple config first18:20
sicelonice. looks like there was no conclusion there. will go with Dmitry's workaround, although it seems to not have been the best option18:25
siceloah, looks like final and accepted solution was . but seems works too, and since i'm lazy and just want/need something booting, i'll go with the latter for now18:31
sicelo CC      arch/arm/boot/compressed/decompress.o18:35
sicelowrong paste18:35
siceloanyway, seems a kernel built18:36
bencohdid it break recently?18:38
bencohoh and ... is leste kernel thumb2 as well?18:39
siceloyes, it's thumb2.18:43
siceloleste has kernel 5.1 for N900 yet. however, i know fmg built 5.9 very recently and didn't get the issue. no idea what the differences are18:44
bencohthat's the question I was about to ask ;)18:44
sicelounfortunately i'm a out of my depth with this stuff - guess i must still learn how cherry-picking works. i'm totally confused about the kernel branches i'm tracking :p18:47
CatButtsHow do I deal with recursive dependencies in GCC in automagic fashion?19:11
CatButtsfor example, for a gtk hello world, I start with -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lglib-2.019:12
CatButtsbut then those depend on other libs, which depend on other libs, which... and so on19:12
CatButtsI found19:12
CatButts-Wl,--start-group -lfirst -lsecond -Wl,--end-group19:13
CatButtsbut I don't think it does what I expect it to19:13
CatButtsattempt to do this manually is nothing short of insanity19:13
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sicelommm, so u-boot finds the kernel i built, but nothing happens after i see "starting kernel". after some time, maybe 1 min, device turns off.20:21
* CatButts barfs on the carpet20:40
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