IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2020-05-21

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brolin_empeyhorseshoecrab: Do you live in or near Shenzhen, PRC?02:21
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: I did not open the link because I do not need to know but I do not think the physical size, in this case microSD, of an SD card matters in the context of the performance of the SD card.  The software may not even know the physical size of the card it is accessing.  I realise that you are probably not the author of the referenced post/article but I think it would be better to omit unnecessary details in this case and just say “SD card”.02:27
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horseshoecrabbrolin_empey: no02:34
horseshoecrabi uh, kind of used to...02:36
horseshoecrab...but that was a long time ago.02:36
brolin_empeyhorseshoecrab: OK.  Where do you live now?  I asked about Shenzhen because I need to chase the KingSpec Global Store, which is in Shenzhen, on AliExpress because they have received the 2-TB mSATA SSD I returned to them because it died soon after I began using it but I have not heard from them for at least two or three weeks by now;  I need this replacement SSD so I can finally finish this project I started in December (!) of replacing HDDs with SSDs before02:45
brolin_empeythe HDDs fail.  Yes, I can temporarily use an HDD until I receive the replacement SSD then clone the HDD onto the SSD but I do not want to use HDDs at all, for anything, because they are unreliable and slow and are Yet Another drive failure just waiting to happen.  I have both a fixed/stationary and mobile telephone number for a person at the KingSpec Global Store so I was going to try contacting them via SMS/MMS or maybe voice call but I do not know if they02:45
brolin_empey speak English as opposed to reading and writing English because all of my communication with them has been in writing.02:45
horseshoecrabi live in london02:46
horseshoecrabi just decided to give my router a funny hostname02:47
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brolin_empeyhorseshoecrab: OK.  Is the “dim sum” part a BASIC reference because it declares an array named “sum” in BASIC?02:49
horseshoecrabthats a reference to the cantonese style of eating small plates with a lot of tea.02:50
horseshoecrabi.e. small plates of things like dumplings and stuff02:50
horseshoecrabim moving to another naming scheme soon.02:50
horseshoecrabive been messing with my network a bit over the last few days.02:51
horseshoecrabi even gave my n900 a static ipv6 address because it won't pick one up via slaac for some reason.02:51
brolin_empeyIs IPv6 an asymptote in practice?02:52
horseshoecrabwhat do you mean/02:53
brolin_empeyIt was a joke in the sense of IPv6 usage being increasingly approached but never reached.02:54
horseshoecrabi dunno man. ive been using it for over 10 years. *shrug*02:55
horseshoecrablots of big sites that i feel should use it still don't but im often surprised by those that do.02:56
brolin_empeyExcept for every time you need to access something that only has an IPv4 address.02:57
horseshoecrabso? dual stack.02:57
horseshoecrabinfact i just checked by using my router to ping pornhub (ipv4) and xhamster (ipv6)02:57
brolin_empeySo why use IPv6 at all then if everything is accessible via IPv4?02:58
horseshoecrabnot everything is02:58
horseshoecrabsome things are ipv6 only02:58
horseshoecraband also the obvious reason: address space.02:58
brolin_empeyWhat is accessible only via IPv6?  xhamster is accessible via IPv4.02:59
horseshoecrabwe have special porn on the ipv6 version of xhamster.03:00
horseshoecrabits like the ipv6 version of
horseshoecrabbut, more practical example:03:00
horseshoecrabnat is horrific03:00
horseshoecrabits the work of the devil.03:00
horseshoecrabits something so crippled and broken that it should be taken out and shot, but it does the job its supposed to do just effectively enough, that despite all that, people use it.03:01
horseshoecrabsome protocols work "ok" with nat03:01
horseshoecrabbut others are terrible - voip being the classic example that springs to mind.03:01
horseshoecrabits very nice to be able to give everything involved in voip a global ipv6 address and not have to fuss with nat.03:02
brolin_empeyVoIP is not a specific protocol.03:02
horseshoecrab(esp. if you are doing stuff like that at home)03:02
horseshoecrabmy bad03:02
horseshoecrablike if you google sip and nat03:06
horseshoecrabthere are loads of people wailing and gnashing their teeth03:06
horseshoecrabipv6 makes that a lot easier to work with.03:06
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brolin_empeyI use SIP for my and accounts using only IPv4.  It seems to work for me.  Microsoft trying to daylight switch the hardware clock of computers running Windows NT instead of using UTC for the hardware clock seems worse than PNAT.  FAT file systems with all of their limitations seem worse than PNAT too.03:34
drathir_torbrolin_empey:  isnt like for such purposes them provide stun servers ?03:46
drathir_torbrolin_empey: to proxy connecrions no matter of nats...03:47
brolin_empeyHTTPS, more generally TLS, breaking forward compatibility may be worse than PNAT too.04:12
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brolin_empeyI find it novel that not only does the .su ccTLD for the USSR still exist, apparently it even supports IPv6 too even though only IPv4 was used in 1991, when the USSR ended.08:43
brolin_empeyDoes the ccTLD for the GDR (East Germany) still exist, assuming that it did exist?  Apparently .dd was never added to the root name servers but was used internally in an isolated network among universities in the GDR before the GDR became part of the FRG.09:00
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MaxdamantusWhat does it mean for a ccTLD to support IPv6?09:24
brolin_empeyMaxdamantus: The same for any other type of TLD I guess but I thought the English-language Wikipedia has a column/field for IPv6 support in at least one table or list of TLDs, which implies that not all TLDs support IPv6.  Maybe what they actually mean is whether AAAA records can be used in addition to A records.  I do not know enough about the DNS to answer this question with certainty, would have to research more before answering.09:39
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brolin_empeyActually, after thinking about it more, I guess what it means is whether the authoritative name server for the top-level domain allows to use an IPv6 address as opposed to only an IPv4 address to specify the authoritative name server for the second-level domain name.  Am I correct?09:58
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MaxdamantusGot a free N810 with my latest N900 device. Wonder if I can revive the dead battery that it came with.10:34
MaxdamantusWas at something like 2.2 V10:34
KotCzarnythat's dangerous10:34
KotCzarnyjust buy new one10:34
MaxdamantusDangerous trying to revive it, or dangerous to have a working battery that at some point was at 2.2 V?10:35
sixwheeledbeastSTUN solves a lot of the v4 VOIP issues.10:36
MaxdamantusHm. After keeping it on charge at around 3.8 V for a minute or so, it seems to be staying at around 3.5 V off charge.10:38
sixwheeledbeastUntil every ISP can offer v6 the transition will be slow. NAT was a pretty clever work around IMO.10:38
MaxdamantusWill leave it like that for a bit longer then try just putting it in the device with the charger.10:38
Maxdamantus(leave it off charge that is)10:39
sixwheeledbeastLithium are unstable if they are faulty10:39
KotCzarnydanger being li-ion crystallizing inside10:41
KotCzarnywhich can damage internal structure10:41
KotCzarnyfurther leading to internal shorts and fire10:41
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KotCzarnyif you put it into device, charge without backpanel10:43
Maxdamantusafaict, 2.2 V is not particularly dangerously low.10:43
KotCzarnyso you will see when it puffs10:43
KotCzarnyit is10:44
Maxdamantusand it is at least an official Nokia battery.10:44
KotCzarnyanything lower than 2.910:44
MaxdamantusNo, that's silly.10:44
KotCzarnyit's about crystallization, which happens faster on lower voltages10:45
KotCzarnymultiply it by the time it was at that state10:45
KotCzarnyand your chance of a pocket fire grenade is high10:45
MaxdamantusHmm.. wondering if the charging mechanism on the device actually doesn't work. It's at least able to boot now into the charging mode (by plugging in the power source while the battery is in), but it just says "Not charging", and the power supply is not drawing any current (when it booted, it was drawing around 6 W)10:50
KotCzarnywell, correction, at lower voltages copper dissolves into electrolyte, then such electrolyte during charging creates dendrites (crystallizes) creating spikes10:50
MaxdamantusI saw the same behaviour when trying it using an Asha 503 battery in it (have to hold it awkwardly)10:50
KotCzarnywould it be battery reporting that it's not safe to charge again?10:51
KotCzarnyso dumb charger will work, but not n900's one10:51
bencohPersonally I'd leave it charging at 3.8V for a longer time10:51
bencoh(and keep an eye on it, obviously)10:52
MaxdamantusI don't really have a way of controlling the charging voltage. Was just using a 5 V supply on it.10:52
bencohDid you ... charge it at 5V? :D10:52
bencoh(I hope no)10:52
MaxdamantusI put a 5 V power supply on it, and the circuit went up to around 3.85 V. Obviously don't want to leave it like that for more than a minute or so, so was hoping it would just be enough to boot the device into a charging mode.10:53
bencohwell ...10:54
sixwheeledbeaston the device or just straight on the battery?10:54
bencohlet's up you didn't damage it further10:54
KotCzarnyyou can use some resistor to drop 5v into ~4v10:54
infobotbencoh meant: let's hope you didn't damage it further10:54
bencohinfobot: <310:54
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, <3 is love10:54
brolin_empey“Wonder if I can revive the dead battery that it came with.” seems grammatically ambiguous because it is not clear whether the intended antecedent of the pronoun “it” is the N810 or the N900 but in this context I guess it does not matter if both models of computer use the same model of battery.  Do the predecessors of the N900 also use a Nokia BL-5J or BL-4J battery?  If yes then calling this model of battery a “cell phone battery” seems like a10:54
brolin_empeymisnomer, as is common or even usual for common usage, because not all of the models of computers even from Nokia, the first party, that use this model of battery have cellular telephony capability.10:54
MaxdamantusThe N810.10:55
Maxdamantusand no, this N810 battery is apparently a "BP-4L"10:55
bencoh1700mAh? hmmm10:57
MaxdamantusI'm able to awkwardly get an Asha 503 battery into it, in which case the device boots and runs fine, though still when attaching the charger with that, it says "Not charging".10:57
bencohMaxdamantus: I don't remember what the 3rd pin is supposed to be10:58
KotCzarny1wire communication10:58
MaxdamantusI guess it might be useful to try and wire the BP-4L in its nearly-working state to the Asha 503, which should be able to charge it correctly.10:58
bencoh(it could be an id resistor, or a thermistor)10:58
bencohor that10:58
sixwheeledbeastthey have a Li-PO version too cheaper but less capacity10:58
bencohanyway, the 3rd pin on the Asha battery might have some other use, and charger will decide not to charge because of this.10:59
MaxdamantusWe'll see.10:59
KotCzarnyyou can always use piece of paper to block unused contacts11:01
bencohKotCzarny: unless they are required11:02
KotCzarnyanyway, new polarcell doesnt cost much, and will have much higher usability (working capacity)11:05
KotCzarnyunless you just want to play for an hour on that n8x011:05
sixwheeledbeastthe issue I see with n810 batteries is they are exclusively for old Nokia devices. N900 size have other uses.11:06
brolin_empeysixwheeledbeast: Such as Symbian computers? Heh.11:09
sixwheeledbeastA good few DECT phones Siemens/Gigaset, a couple still in production.11:12
brolin_empeyWhy did Nokia release the C6-00 with a microUSB connector but still have a separate barrel connector for power?  It took me a while to realise why I could not power the computer from the microUSB connector whilst I briefly had a C6-00 in 2010.11:13
sixwheeledbeastalso the nokia devices are more likely to be still around11:13
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MaxdamantusSeems that the Asha refused to charge it. Looks like an N900 is charging it though.11:29
KotCzarnydifferent charging chip protocol?11:30
KotCzarnyi wonder if it's the case11:30
MaxdamantusFeels like a dodgier setup though. It's even harder to hold it in place in the N900 (using aluminium foil around the contacts), and N900 has a ground shield behind the battery tied to negative.11:30
KotCzarnyor just different safe-guard params on phones11:30
MaxdamantusThe Asha would start the charging mechanism (which involves showing a battery symbol with a lightning bolt in it), but it would just turn off before getting to the stage where it would show a charging icon instead.11:32
MaxdamantusAnd when I booted the actual OS on the Asha, it said something like "needs charge" including with a power source.11:32
KotCzarny3d print universal battery adapter11:33
MaxdamantusIf I covered the third pin when putting the battery in the Asha, it would do the same thing, but it would reboot (back to the lightning bolt picture) after turning off.11:34
KotCzarnyit might be the bme in asha is more picky about state of charge11:34
KotCzarnysimilar to 5dot syndrome on n90011:35
brolin_empeyRe: calling the N900 a “phone”: The N900 does not have cellular connectivity in Canada unless you happen to use Rogers Wireless or one of its MVNOs due to the limited cellular modem used in the N900.11:35
MaxdamantusHm, and BL-5J in the N810 still gets the "Not charging" message.11:37
sixwheeledbeast:shrug: it's still a phone. Just because you take something somewhere you can't use it doesn't change it's properties.11:37
sixwheeledbeastAlso there's VOIP11:38
brolin_empeyActually, there may have been other cellular networks in Canada using AWS (in the cellular connectivity context, not the Amazon context although you can use AWS over AWS) that were compatible with the N900 cellular modem but I think at least one of those companies is defunct by now.  I keep mentioning this fact about the limited cellular modem of the N900 because I live in Canada.11:42
brolin_empeyGranted, Nokia did not even release the N900 in Canada, maybe because they realised that this hardware limitation made the N900 not competitive.11:45
brolin_empeyThe reason for Apple not releasing the original Apple iPhone in Canada may be similar because, if I recall correctly, the cellular modem in the original iPhone is compatible only with the Rogers Wireless network, not with Telus Mobility nor Bell Mobility.  Canada having a total population less than only the US state of California, where Apple is, is likely also part of the reason.11:52
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MaxdamantusHm. Wonder if the issue is just the power supply that came with this N810. Haven't been able to test its voltage while charging.11:59
MaxdamantusIt's just a cigarette lighter supply.11:59
* Maxdamantus will try to attach another source to it later.12:00
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buZzi miss using the N81018:50
buZzits such a nice device18:50
buZzif only the specs were a bit better18:50
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brolin_empeyI messaged my contact at the KingSpec Global Store via the SMS/MMS, will see if I receive a reply but it is currently just after midnight in the two Chinas.19:15
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infobotrumour has it, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
brolin_empeyRemote Procedure Call calls, heh.20:14
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luke-jrbuZz: GPD Win 2 isn't too bad23:58
luke-jrmajor problems are Intel backdoor and batteries inflating23:59

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