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| Oksana | Maxdamantus: I have heated up the Fxtec Pro1 (against laptop's cooling vent), it's not exactly iron hot but still quite warm. Still no sign of switching on. And no idea how to disassemble that, to have a look at the battery. I mean, two screws at the keyboard are easy, but taking them out doesn't help any. | 06:17 |
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| Oksana | And info@fxtec.com haven't replied yet to email sent out 7 hours ago. I know, I know, timezones, and many other things to do... | 06:39 |
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| brolin_empey | Maxdamantus: I did not mean file system compatibility, I meant whether the device (computer) is able to use an SD card at all. For example, the TSCM-283 (Touch Screen Computer Module using Freescale i.MX 283 processor) from my company will not boot (using the Freescale boot loader) from a <=2-GB SD card but it will boot from a 4-GB SD card even if the 4-GB card is a raw clone of a 2-GB card with the second half of the card unused. I do not know if a <=2-GB | 07:34 |
| brolin_empey | card can be used after the OS using a Linux kernel (GNU+Linux or Android) is running, would have to check. As far as I know, I do not use exFAT for anything. | 07:34 |
| Maxdamantus | brolin_empey: if you do a raw clone of a 4GB card to a 2GB card, then that resulting image is essentially corrupt. | 07:35 |
| Maxdamantus | brolin_empey: since at the very least, unless you fix the partition table, the partition table is going to be pointing outside of the device. | 07:35 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect Linux will probably allow it to be mounted anyway, but there's a pretty good chance that whatever bootloader is used won't. | 07:36 |
| brolin_empey | Maxdamantus: I never mentioned cloning a larger-capacity medium onto a smaller-capacity medium. I mentioned cloning a 2-GB SD card onto a 4-GB SD card, which results in a 4-GB card with only, at most, the first 2-GB of the card used. | 07:38 |
| Maxdamantus | brolin_empey: so you mean it boots from a 2GB card, but not a 4GB card? | 07:38 |
| Maxdamantus | brolin_empey: or you mean you prepared an image by doing your own partitioning and filesystem formatting on a 2GB card, then transferred that to a 4GB card? | 07:39 |
| brolin_empey | Maxdamantus: No, I mean exactly what I have said at least twice by now: it boots from a 4-GB card but not from a 2-GB card because it supports SDHC but not SDSC because the person who did the software for this platform never took the time to add support for SDSC because the cost of a >=4-GB SD card is too low to justify the cost of adding support for <=2-GB SD cards. Please carefully read my messages, which I usually proofread and correct as necessary | 07:41 |
| brolin_empey | before sending, so that I do not have to keep repeating myself. | 07:41 |
| Maxdamantus | Okay, well I suspect that analysis is wrong. | 07:42 |
| Maxdamantus | I obviously can't debug that myself though. | 07:42 |
| Maxdamantus | even if it is correct, it's only an issue in the software that actually talks to the card (ie, at the level of Linux, or a bootloader or something), not something to do with the hardware. | 07:43 |
| Maxdamantus | to be clear though, if you start | 07:45 |
| Maxdamantus | er | 07:46 |
| brolin_empey | You doubt my knowledge and experience of the product of the company of my family, by whom I have been employed for fourteen years this month? | 07:46 |
| Maxdamantus | to be clear though, if you start with a provided 4GB image, then do `cat mmc.img >/dev/mmcblk0` to write to the 2GB card then `cat /dev/mmcblk0 >/dev/mmcblk1` to write to the 4GB card, the 2GB card is likely to be considered corrupt even though the 4GB might not be. | 07:47 |
| Maxdamantus | I doubt your level of certainty. | 07:48 |
| Maxdamantus | I also work in technology (as a "software engineer"), and people make incorrect analyses all the time. | 07:48 |
| Maxdamantus | I wouldn't claim absolute certainty about something, but I can certainly doubt other people's claims. | 07:49 |
| Maxdamantus | I imagine if there is an issue with compatibility of that 2GB card with their software, there are probably also compatibility with other 4GB cards. | 07:50 |
| Maxdamantus | since it probably just means that there are some parameters that are incorrectly hardcoded (eg, the SD card protocol has something to do with block sizes, which can vary across cards). | 07:51 |
| Maxdamantus | in fact, I'd be surprised if it would even be acceptable by the consortium to have a device that supports SDHC cards but not SDSC cards. | 07:53 |
| brolin_empey | I do not know the specifics but different storage capacities of SD cards are not all the same at the low-level software, which is why, in practice, some devices (computers) only work with certain ranges of storage capacities of SD cards. I think SmartMedia has a similar issue but the largest SmartMedia card produced is only 128 MB but some things, such as the Epson PhotoPC 550 digital still camera and the DOS driver for the FlashPath for SmartMedia, only | 07:55 |
| brolin_empey | work with smaller capacity cards because a software change is required to support the larger capacity cards that were not available during the development of the product that does not support the larger capacity cards. | 07:55 |
| Maxdamantus | in any case, this is fairly irrelevant to the point I was making last night, which is that the hardware doesn't care about SDSC vs. SDHC vs. SDXC vs. SDUC. If anything cares about it, it's only the software. | 07:56 |
| brolin_empey | The Windows driver for the FlashPath for SmartMedia works with a 128-MB card. | 07:57 |
| brolin_empey | I do not think I ever said that the limitation is due to hardware but the reality is that some devices are stuck with old software that does not support all storage capacities of SD cards. | 08:02 |
| brolin_empey | I think my original point is that it is possible that some new products no longer support <=2-GB SD cards because the user/customer is expected to no longer be using such small capacity cards by now. I guess this is less likely for a consumer product such as the Fxtec Pro1 but the TSCM-283 and maybe other computer platforms based upon the i.MX 283 that also use the Freescale boot loader do not support <=2-GB SD cards. At least they cannot boot from a <=2- | 08:07 |
| brolin_empey | GB card but they may still be able to use a <=2-GB card while the OS is running if the OS supports <=2-GB cards. | 08:07 |
| brolin_empey | Reportedly at least one model of USB 3.5-inch High-density flexible disc drive does not support Double-Density discs, for maybe the same reason as I mentioned with the <=2-GB SD cards: because DD discs were uncommon in the IBM PC compatible world even by the end of the 1990s. | 08:17 |
| Maxdamantus | If I had a 2GB microSD card, I'd be inclined to try it out on my Kobo Clara HD. | 08:19 |
| Maxdamantus | Might be worth mentioning though that my Kobo Clara HD came with an 8 GB microSD card (SDHC), and I replaced it with a 128 GB microSD card (SDXC) with no issues. | 08:20 |
| Maxdamantus | (Kobo Clara HD is also based on some i.MX Freescale thing) | 08:21 |
| Maxdamantus | (the SD card is probably not really intended to be replaced, since afaict, they don't offer any support for loading the OS onto a new SD card; you just have to copy it over yourself or obtain an image from someone else) | 08:22 |
| brolin_empey | i.MX 2xx is old. i.MX is up to at least 8 by now as far as I know. The TSCM-283 was originally released in 2011, still uses a Linux 2.6.x kernel, not even a 3.x kernel. | 08:23 |
| Maxdamantus | Ah, okay. | 08:23 |
| brolin_empey | I have a Kobo Vox from 2011 but I do not remember if it has an SD card connector nor which SoC it uses. It is at my home but I am currently at my office. Last I checked, some fool on en.wikipedia.org redirected the Kobo Vox article to the Kobo Arc article even though they are two different models of computers. | 08:24 |
| brolin_empey | My Vox runs Android 2.3.x (Gingerbread), which I rooted with Gingerbreak. | 08:26 |
| brolin_empey | It has Winamp for Android, in which I lost interest when I discovered it does not support module music formats like Winamp for Windows. | 08:27 |
| brolin_empey | I mean Winamp for Windows includes an input plug-in to play module music formats but Winamp for Android does not include support for playing module music formats and maybe does not even support plug-ins at all? | 08:30 |
| brolin_empey | i.MX 283 is only ARMv5, not ARMv7. | 08:32 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: sdcards and devices can be finicky | 08:37 |
| KotCzarny | i've have a bunch of 1/2/4gb sdcards and some of them boot fine and some dont (on my opi) | 08:38 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: possibly, but I doubt it has much to do with SDSC/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC, and to the extent that it is finnicky, it's almost certainly to do with software rather than hardware, so if you're able to run decent software, there shouldn't be an issue. | 08:38 |
| KotCzarny | nah | 08:38 |
| KotCzarny | same image, just device doesnt boot with some of them | 08:38 |
| Maxdamantus | That means it's not an issue of SDSC/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC. | 08:39 |
| KotCzarny | i suspect there are differences in the sd standard that do get or dont get implemented by controller | 08:39 |
| KotCzarny | speed/modes etc | 08:39 |
| Maxdamantus | Since you're presumably saying that out of a mix of 1 and 2 GB cards (which are all SDSC), some work and some don't. | 08:39 |
| KotCzarny | i didnt investigate, usually just grab one that works | 08:39 |
| KotCzarny | and with h3droid sometimes people even report 4 or 8gb cards not booting | 08:40 |
| KotCzarny | my bet is on the speed/modes/voltages/quirkiness, you know, general compatibility of the card and the reader | 08:41 |
| Maxdamantus | This is obviously just due to bugs in implementation though, not about compatibility as determined by the SDSC/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC labels. | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | but it's not something fixable by softwar, as bootloader is most often contained as a r/o chunk in soc | 08:42 |
| KotCzarny | s/bootloader/boot0 code/ | 08:43 |
| infobot | KotCzarny meant: but it's not something fixable by softwar, as boot0 code is most often contained as a r/o chunk in soc | 08:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | clock speed maybe | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then of course partitioning | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | filesystem... well you said it's same image, so... | 15:24 |
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| drathir | KotCzarny: still much better than phones which snap to half when sit with them in the pocket ;p | 20:56 |
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| KotCzarny | i never carry my phone in small pockets | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | usually in backpack | 21:00 |
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| drathir | KotCzarny: its kind of joking, bc for me its funny the phone could damage in pocket itself with normal usage no jumping/smashing it... | 21:27 |
| KotCzarny | well, it's physics | 21:28 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: or maybe its me just chose bulletproof phones ;p | 21:28 |
| KotCzarny | forces applied, reactions from the materials etc | 21:28 |
| KotCzarny | everything can be damaged | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | we want big smart devices, we get them | 21:29 |
| KotCzarny | but we havent evolved good storage for them (yet) | 21:29 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: yea thats true, but maybe just used to threat the nails with mu phone.. | 21:30 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: good old 3210 ;p | 21:30 |
| KotCzarny | and only good as a phone :P | 21:31 |
| KotCzarny | and maybe a hammer | 21:31 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: good have heavy defence friend in Your pocket just in case You not know hour when You need it ^^ and this present ones phones feel so fragile in most cases... last i guess i able to feel solid of the phone body was bb9900... | 21:38 |
| drathir | from current ones probly cat or black view sane choices even if s10e is powerfull them still feel so fragile... | 21:43 |
| KotCzarny | currently using some old alcatel (pop star) | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | it's light enough not to be damaged on drops | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | (and yeah, it fell out of my pocket in WC few times on the hard floor ;) | 21:47 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: imagine drop with any current ones... personaly i have few direct screen side n900 drops where i almost was sure screen out, but not even scratch get on screen... | 21:50 |
| KotCzarny | alcatel and n900 use safect display construction | 21:51 |
| KotCzarny | screen isnt exposed as much as mainstream phones | 21:52 |
| * drathir also hear some rumours about cheap linux phone which have kind of killswitches used, but cant remember where i saw that... need try to dig a bit to find it probably not sure if it not have a kickstarter campaign as well, and phone intended to be delivered w/o os... | 21:59 | |
| KotCzarny | pinephone | 21:59 |
| KotCzarny | i got it yesterday | 21:59 |
| KotCzarny | just that i have to finish my other projects before i sit down and prepare some OS for it | 21:59 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: that for sure will be lot of fun... | 22:01 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 22:01 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder if pali got him one | 22:02 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: hope so He could play wih bootloader on the devce... also its nice step forward for more flexible mobile devices... | 22:08 |
| KotCzarny | nah, allwinner a64 is quite opensourced already by community | 22:08 |
| KotCzarny | it's one of the most open socs available | 22:09 |
| KotCzarny | i think there is even *bsd port | 22:09 |
| KotCzarny | if one fancies bsd phone | 22:09 |
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| drathir | KotCzarny: but librem as i remember was expensive with this one its nice approach fore more price friendly models w/o android... | 22:11 |
| KotCzarny | pp is much more open | 22:11 |
| KotCzarny | i suspect one could use it with maemo-leste as a tablet already | 22:12 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: running maemo on it with phone functionality support would be interesting... | 22:14 |
| KotCzarny | phone support in linux is interesting no matter the device/distro | 22:15 |
| drathir | KotCzarny: yep and often challenging as well... | 22:17 |
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