IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2020-01-22

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brolin_empeyThe automagically cloned mSATA SSD boots and seems to work but I booted it on a Core 2 tower computer to test because I cannot properly install the mSATA drive in the Dell PowerEdge 2950 server computer until I receive the 2.5-inch SATA drive cases for mSATA drives.02:25
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OksanaaWhere is the default date 1/1/2009 stored? Because I am quite tired of having to scroll to 2020 every time the battery discharges to beyond ability to remember date and time.03:17
OksanaaAnd yes, I should replace the tiny round battery - it's all green, rusty and nasty, by now.03:17
luke-jrmy 10 year old just got the interest to fiddle with my old Zaurus SL-C760 ;)03:17
OksanaaNice. My 8yo brother is so frustrated by Linux monopoly at our home that he is demanding a Windows computer. He already has an iPad. And he sees lots of Windows computers and iPads at school.03:20
OksanaaI would like to figure out which open-source operating system is even more radical than Linux. Bonus points if it can run Hildon desktop.03:21
OksanaaGentoo? Darwin?03:21
brolin_empeyOksanaa: Gentoo is a GNU+Linux distribution. ;-)03:30
OksanaaYes, I know. Too similar to Debian, I guess? Though, compiling software from source code has its own nice points.03:30
OksanaaBut something like micro-kernel would be nice.03:31
brolin_empeyMenuetOS or KolibriOS?  FreeDOS?  QNX?  NixOS?03:31
OksanaaMenuetOS is monolithic kernel, and 64bit is closed-source.03:34
brolin_empeyLinux is a monolithic kernel too but evolved to support loadable kernel modules.03:34
brolin_empeyFreeBSD or maybe NetBSD?03:35
OksanaaKolibriOS is monolithic as well, and I don't see whether it is available for 64bit.03:35
brolin_empeyOpenSolaris or one of its variants or derivatives?03:36
brolin_empeyQNX uses a microkernel.03:37
brolin_empeyI would not say that Gentoo is similar to Debian.03:37
OksanaaFuchsia, a grand-child of Haiku, is interesting.03:37
brolin_empeyGentoo portage is modelled after FreeBSD ports.03:38
OksanaaOpenSolaris is discontinued, OSDyson is one of its derivatives.03:40
brolin_empeyMaemo is discontinued too.03:41
brolin_empeyA person born in around 2012, when Windows 8 was released, may be so young that they have not actually used the original Windows series, which ended with Windows Me (Windows 4.90) in 2000, as opposed to the Windows NT series.03:43
OksanaaWindows Me... Don't remember. I have used Windows XP, ages ago. Windows 2000, before that. Don't remember Windows Me.03:46
brolin_empeyMicrosoft Windows has three series or families, not only Windows NT.  The original Windows series was current from 1985 to 2000 inclusive and was only released for x86.  The Windows NT series was first released in 1993, is still current, and has always been released for multiple architectures in addition to x86.  The Windows CE series was first released in… around 1996? and has also always been released for multiple architectures including x86 but seems to03:49
brolin_empey be increasingly historical for new product designs since Microsoft finally ported Windows NT to ARM.03:49
brolin_empeyWindows XP and Windows 2000 are both marketing names for versions of Windows NT 5.x .  Microsoft decided to stop using Windows NT as a marketing name during the development of Windows NT 5.0, which was marketed as Windows 2000 for the final release but originally used the name Windows NT 5.0 during development.03:52
brolin_empeyI believe that Microsoft was still using the name Windows NT 5.0 in 1998.  The final release (RTM) was as Windows 2000 in 1999 December with general availability/retail release on 2000‑02‑17.03:57
brolin_empeyConfusingly, the successor to Windows 98 is Windows Me, not Windows 2000, which is the successor to Windows NT 4.0 .04:01
brolin_empey“64-bit” is not a specific architecture.  Intel tried to replace x86-32 AKA IA-32 with Itanium AKA IA-64, which was a commercial failure so Intel ended up creating their own implementation of what became known as x86-64, which was originally created by AMD as the natural evolution of the x86 architecture from 32 to 64 bits.04:12
brolin_empey64-bit Windows XP was originally Windows XP for Itanium in 2001 until Windows XP for x86-64 shipped in 2005 but Windows XP for x86-64 is based on Windows Server 2003 and is only Windows XP Service Pack 2 even though Service Pack 3 is the final service pack for Windows XP, which means that something that requires Windows XP Service Pack 3 is not compatible with Windows XP for x86-64.  If I recall correctly, Windows XP Service Pack 3 was released only for x86-04:20
brolin_empeyMac OS X running on a non-Intel x86 CPU usually implies a Hackintosh because Apple uses only the Intel x86 platform for publicly released products.04:29
brolin_empeyAPT on Debian can be used to build a package from source.  You do not need to use Gentoo nor a similar distribution (SourceMage?) if you often want to build packages from source by yourself instead of using packages built by someone else.04:39
OksanaaSure, it is possible. And on Gentoo it might be possible to install a pre-compiled package, instead of compiling it from source code?04:46
brolin_empeyI stopped using Gentoo in 2008 because I prefer Debian-based distributions but, at least as of 2008, Gentoo portage did contain some prebuilt packages, yes.04:49
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luke-jrbut only if it matches your desired build config05:04
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WikiwideI am tired. There is no way to calm down mother.12:23
WikiwideOne day she says that my Nokia N900/Samsung U900 is too old, non-functional (mostly web-browser and maps) and falling apart, and that I need to get a new, Android-y smartphone.12:23
WikiwideAnother day she says that it is unreasonable to invest in a device before it gets produced, that I should buy something off-the-shelf instead of risking my money at vaporware.12:24
WikiwideAnd when I finally get Fedex SMS about item arriving by 29th of January, she is once again annoyed at: 1) me buying two phones (who will use the second Fxtec Pro1?); 2) expensiveness12:25
KotCzarnyjust get her some cheapo, 2nd hand one?12:27
KotCzarnyand if you are into linux/open source phone, pinephone could be better (once there is a stable OS for it)12:27
KotCzarny150usd is quite good price if you ask me12:27
WikiwideLet me go over the most expensive things at our house: iPad (~200$) of our 8yo brother, bicycle (~200$) of our 8yo brother, bicycle (with gears, adult, 700c wheels) of our mother, office printer(65$? Don't remember)12:28
KotCzarnywhat about laptops?12:28
WikiwideProblem is, I want a phone with hardware keyboard. And most phones, Android or Linux, aren't that.12:29
KotCzarnythere are plans for hwkb sleeve for pinephone12:29
KotCzarnyit even has pogopins in the back already12:29
WikiwideLaptops: ancient Fujitsu Lifebook S7210, ancient Acer Travelmate, have been using them for about 10 years.12:29
WikiwidePins... :Grimace: If I liked that, I would have bought Jolla and TOH already, I guess?12:30
WikiwideI don't know, did anybody do a review of Pro1 vs Jolla+TOH vs Motorola Droid ?12:31
KotCzarnypins are much better than bt12:31
KotCzarnyyou wont be exposing yourself to air-hacking12:32
WikiwideEither way, I would have preferred resistive touchscreen. But alas, that's nearly impossible.12:32
WikiwideYes, pins are better than bluetooth. But proper solid slider may be even better?12:32
WikiwideI would have been more sure of my right to spend money "frivolously" on such expenses if I was sure that my employment is permanent.12:34
WikiwideAnd if I didn't have a variety of health problems. Putting a crown on a tooth costs as much as the phone, about 1k AUD, doesn't it?12:34
WikiwideAs it is, I am frugally commuting by bicycle. No buses, no trams, no trains.12:35
WikiwideIt is bad enough that membership of FSF, two unions and one surf life saving club is eating into money.12:36
WikiwideI hope I will not get ill from lack of exercise. That's one of the reasons I cycle every day. Sweating a lot, poor shirts...12:38
KotCzarnytbh i dont do any exercises12:39
KotCzarnyyet, i'm quite healthy12:39
WikiwideI should get a different smilie theme. I cannot see what smilie it is on the screen :-/12:39
WikiwideMy lungs get tired from just walking up the stairs, from G to 3. But at least, I still can beat the lift.12:40
WikiwideBut I don't compare myself against lift that often. Just a few times a year.12:41
WikiwideYou see, most laptops can boot up-to-date Linux. And up-to-date Linux can run up-to-date software.12:42
WikiwideWith phones, it is not so. Most phones can only run out-of-date version of Android or iOS.12:43
KotCzarnyif phones are supported by mainline linux12:43
WikiwideNot many are.12:43
KotCzarnypinephone is12:44
WikiwideBesides, when people get rid of phones, they are often not working. Broken display, or some other not obvious fault.12:44
KotCzarnyas for second hand stuff, often they just cant run some app with higher android12:44
WikiwidePinephone is without hardware keyboard. For now, sure... And what camera does it have, 5MPx?12:45
KotCzarnypinephone isnt top-of-the-line part, it's biggest feature is hackability, as it's very open12:45
WikiwideLaptops are usually working. And if they aren't working, they aren't glued into an impossible to fix mess.12:45
KotCzarnyi should get mine in a week or two12:45
KotCzarnythen i would be able to verify all the claims12:46
KotCzarnybut im pretty sure there will be a lot of reviews once people get theirs12:46
WikiwideYes, hackability is good. In that regards, I should try to use the ancient Motorola phone - it runs Linux, and, it has hardware T9 keyboard. And resistive touchscreen.12:47
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KotCzarnyi will probably mod mine to dual boot android and linux12:47
WikiwideI don't know if it will be possible to attach any new hardware to it - say, 4G USB stick as USB slave - but it is still neat.12:48
WikiwideFxtec Pro1 will have to dual boot Android and Maemo Leste, I guess. Is there a guide on how to do that?12:48
KotCzarnyi would ask #maemo-leste12:49
WikiwideI am super worried about this arriving Fxtec Pro1. First, I don't have a belt pouch for it yet - and it's a huge device! Don't want it falling onto road while I am cycling.12:50
WikiwideSecond, there are two of them. Because I expect that they will get more expensive as demand rises, or, they will not be manufactured at all as demand goes down.12:51
KotCzarnyand that's another reason not to spend much on the mobile device12:51
KotCzarnypine folks arent going to go away for a while12:51
WikiwideThird, I have got to make sure my brother doesn't start attacking new toy with gusto. But I hope that if he just wants to play with an Android phone...12:52
KotCzarnyand if their kickstarters keep getting funded, i would expect better stuff in the future12:52
WikiwideThen Galaxy S5 or something (picked up free of charge somewhere) is quite enough.12:52
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WikiwideAnyway, it's good that Pyra isn't arriving until April. Maybe, by then I will be able to clean out my room sufficiently that people will not think of my tech as junk anymore.12:55
WikiwideAnd I cannot wait for gry to move the web server to her Nokia N900! Seriously, having laptop on 24/7 just for that is power-consuming.12:56
WikiwideI am a hoarder. I do try to hoard only working (or easily fixable) electronics (and bicycles), and I do try to sell those of them which I find perfectly useless for me.12:58
KotCzarnyever heard of orange pi?12:58
WikiwideBut I have still got way too many things.12:58
KotCzarnyfor 10usd you can get fully functional linux board12:58
KotCzarnythat will draw ~0.5-1W of power12:58
KotCzarnythat's less than charging the phone12:58
WikiwideFully functional Linux board... Sure. i already have Nokia N900 - which somehow has working charging port and non-functional cellular. Web-server is a perfect usage for it.12:59
KotCzarnynokia has 256megs of ram only12:59
KotCzarnywhich is mostly used13:00
KotCzarnyalso lacks ethernet port13:00
WikiwideIf I find an orange pi board somewhere, I will keep it in mind.13:00
WikiwideWe don't use much Ethernet around here, because people and doors and such. Cables are tiresome.13:00
KotCzarnybut you surely have a router, no?13:00
WikiwideI don't remember, does Pocket Chip have an Ethernet port?13:01
KotCzarnymaybe on some pins, but not natively13:01
WikiwideA router, yes. Can it run ikiwiki server, an IRC server, and whatever) else?13:01
KotCzarnyanything that linux can run13:01
KotCzarnyit's just plain linux computer13:01
WikiwideNot every modemorouter can run Linux.13:02
KotCzarnybut very small (and arm based)13:02
KotCzarnythat depends on ram/flash size and linux support13:02
KotCzarnymost allwinner chips are mainlined by community13:02
KotCzarnyand are perfect if you dont like any blobs, but you do want normal linux machine13:03
WikiwideOh, a question : does Lenovo Thinkpad tablet support Linux?13:03
KotCzarnyi dont know, have no experience with lenovo tablets13:04
WikiwideBecause if it does, I could try running Maemo something on it. If it doesn't support any kind of Linux besides ancient Android, then I have got to sell it.13:04
Wikiwide: sigh : Model of tablet...13:05
KotCzarnygoogle is your friend, i guess13:05
WikiwideWhatever that stands for13:09
WikiwideCM10 ROM available?
WikiwideIn short, very unmaintained.
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enycoh, I'm used to  intel ThinkPad with  tablet converting rotating screen!14:27
buZzmaemo on a thinkpad? :D15:10
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KotCzarnyever heard of maemo-fremantle? ;)15:22
KotCzarnyi mean maemo-leste15:22
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buZzKotCzarny: i run maemo leste on a droid4 ;)15:51
buZzi wrote that 'postinstall' howto on maemo leste's wiki even15:52
KotCzarnythen you should know that leste is meant to run any thing with mainline linux and opengl15:54
buZzright ;) but -still- its ment for more mobile usage15:54
buZzyou dont need a 'alarm clock' or a 'phone manager' on a thinkpad, i'd assume15:54
KotCzarnyunless its thinkpad-tablet?15:54
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buZzKotCzarny: does that have a voicemodem then?16:02
buZzafaik its just data16:03
KotCzarnyn8x0 had skype even being modemless16:03
buZzyeah not the same thing ;)16:03
KotCzarnystill, possible to use as communicator16:03
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