IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2020-01-03

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brolin_empeyHas anyone here been following (somewhat) recent developments in MLC NAND flash memory as used by COTS SATA SSDs, specifically the KingSpec mSATA SSDs I plan to buy from the KingSpec store on AliExpress to replace some HDDs before the HDDs fail?  Is this a good choice of mSATA SSD if reliability and longevity is much more important than performance?  If I wanted the highest performance then I would not be using decade+ old x86 motherboards with only SATA 312:14
brolin_empeyGib/s or even, in at least one of the computers, only SATA 1.5 Gib/s host controllers.12:14
brolin_empeyKotCzarny? Or DocScrutinizer05?  Or anyone else?  hurrian is still gone.  I still wonder what happened to him (or maybe her?)?12:16
brolin_empeyI doubt that someone who knows as much about computer hardware as hurrian is a woman.12:22
bencoherr, I wouldn't say that.12:23
brolin_empeyI mean someone who knows that much about computer hardware is probably a man.12:23
bencohyou'd be surprised.12:23
brolin_empeyI did not say that women who are very knowledgeable about computer hardware do not exist but it seems that most persons who have a strong interest in this type of subject are men.12:26
brolin_empeyApparently other persons in my company may be misusing the general term “LVDS” in the context of interfacing a flat-panel display with an embedded computer to mean a specific application of LVDS, such as the FPD-Link series of standards.12:33
brolin_empeyApparently a person who seems to think that current versions of Windows NT are not still Windows NT because Microsoft no longer uses Windows NT as a marketing name is employable as an IT person maintaining computer systems using both client and server editions of Windows NT 10.12:39
brolin_empeyDoes rms drive an automotive vehicle?  If yes then does he drive a vehicle with closed-source firmware?  If yes then is this situation ironic because he could still use a vehicle that is sufficiently old that it does not use software and therefore does not use closed-source software?12:47
brolin_empeyDoes rms use an antique microwave oven that does not use firmware because he wants to avoid closed-source firmware in his microwave oven?12:50
brolin_empeyDoes he use only antique video displays that do not use firmware because he wants to avoid closed-source firmware in his video displays?12:52
sicelowhat do i need software for in my microwave? :-/12:52
siceloi think RMS doesn't mind closed source FW if it's on something that's off the network. I could be wrong (I don't follow the guy), but that's how I understood from the one or two videos I've seen of him12:54
brolin_empeyActually, I think he published his opinion/position/view about when software becomes hardware even if it is technically still software because I remember discussing this subject with someone in 2011.12:55
siceloi'm lost now :)13:00
brolin_empeysicelo: Even a countertop microwave oven from 1990 uses firmware for its microcontroller, which may be only a 4-bit computer.  I think the oldest microwave oven I have used in recent years is the 1990 Sanyo one my company had until 2017.  Actually, the code used by the microcontroller may not be firmware in the sense that the manufacturer has to get the software correct the first time because the code cannot be changed after the product is manufactured13:02
brolin_empeywithout replacing part of the hardware, such as a component on a circuit board.13:02
siceloyes, i understand that. and the microwave is not networked, so there's nothing it reports home, or that the manufacturer uses to keep ownership of the device.13:07
brolin_empeyI think but I am not certain that a countertop microwave oven that is sufficiently old that it uses a mechanical timer with a dial that is not an input to a computer like the modern countertop microwave ovens with a dial instead of a keypad may not be a computer even though it still uses electronics, similarly to how a corded push-button POTS telephone from around 1980 or earlier is not a computer even though it uses electronics.  Now even a corded,13:09
brolin_empeystationary telephone has become a computer.13:09
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brolin_empeyActually, if the code is stored in literal ROM as opposed to some type of programmable ROM then I think it may still be considered firmware as opposed to hardwired logic because even the IBM PC compatible BIOS was, I think, already considered firmware back in the days when it was not field-reprogrammable with only the motherboard like with modern motherboards that store the firmware in EEPROM such as flash memory.  What type of non-volatile memory did IBM13:20
brolin_empeyuse for the motherboard BIOS in the original IBM Personal Computer, IBM type number 5150, from late 1981?  Is it literal ROM or is it already a form of PROM even if it requires a special programmer (hardware device) that not all users had?13:20
brolin_empeyI do not remember when EPROM was first commercially used but I know it was already used in at least part of the 1980s.13:25
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DocScrutinizer05RMS' position is: it isn't software if you can not upgrade it )aka "completely invisible")14:29
DocScrutinizer05who cares?14:29
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DocScrutinizer05note that actually RMS main concern is about "user owns the software". All privacy/security concerns like "calling home" are afterthoughts14:34
DocScrutinizer05and more than once they were not in line with the master mantra which is "FOSS FOSS FOSS" - See requests to forbid modem firmware update locally by adding a microcontroller that blocks the flashing command, while it's pretty obvious the modem could suffer OTA exploits and changes of firmware, both permanently in flash as well as temporarily in RAM14:37
DocScrutinizer05allowing user to upgrade firmware could fix vulnerabilities. Blocking firmware updates would not help security at all14:38
DocScrutinizer05you got to understand that RMS comes from >>The goal was to bring a wholly free software operating system into existence.<< and that's still the main concern14:46
DocScrutinizer05back in 1983 such nthing like firmware didn't really exist at all. Then came linux and "smart" peripherals and GNU7RMS missed the point in time where a clear definition of the logical borders of "free software operating system" would have been due14:49
DocScrutinizer05attach a USB UMTS stick that needs firmware upload or initialization... NEEDS TO BE FOSS. Attach an USB printer... NEEDS TO BE FOSS? When you could connect to your phone exchange maintenance console via ISDN of your PC, then the "firmware" of that exchange probably also needs to be FOSS.14:53
DocScrutinizer05there's RYF now, but that's suffering pretty muich the same flaws15:01
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: OK.  Any comment about which SATA SSDs I should buy?  I still need to order the KingSpec mSATA SSDs unless someone suggests an alternative that seems better.16:34
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no recent data16:35
brolin_empeyI expect that asking in ##hardware will result in the subject of discussion changing from which model of SATA SSD I should buy to why I am still using SATA <=3 Gib/s on decade+ old motherboards instead of using NVMe and DDR4 SDRAM and all of the latest and greatest hardware that I do not need and cannot afford to buy because I do not need it.  So I have not even joined that channel.16:41
brolin_empeyAnd why I am still using operating systems released in 2013 or earlier, such as Debian 7 and Ubuntu 10.04.x LTS.16:43
brolin_empeyOr why I am still using an x86-32 OS on an x86-64 computer or other irrelevant and off-topic subjects.16:44
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