IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2019-03-25

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brolin_empeyIs it intentional that the marriage symbol = ⚭ = U+26AD appears to resemble the MasterCard logo?02:51
brolin_empeyOr that the MasterCard logo appears to resemble the marriage symbol?02:52
MaxdamantusMakes me think of Venn diagrams.02:53
MaxdamantusI'm guessing the Venn interpretation is irrelevant and the other symbols are meant to indicate connectedness of chains.02:53
brolin_empeyYes, I thought that the MasterCard logo was a Venn diagram years ago.02:54
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brolin_empeyMaxdamantus: I finally got around to opening your links to the products to connect a normal SATA drive to an mSATA socket and the SATA host controllers on mini PCI-E cards.  These products are neat.  Apparently I should be able to connect at least three 2.5-inch or larger SATA drives via SATA to the small, fanless x86-64 computer I linked on AliExpress after all as long as Ubuntu 10.04.x LTS works on this computer that appears to be years newer than Ubuntu03:23
brolin_empey10.04.x .03:23
brolin_empeyI do not want to buy this computer if I have to upgrade from Ubuntu 10.04.x .03:25
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brolin_empeyThis computer has the same Celeron J1900 model of CPU and one of the reviewers says it works well with Ubuntu 10.04 but apparently Amazon does not let me contact the reviewer even if I am logged in to the Amazon Web site so I cannot ask the reviewer if they truly meant Ubuntu 10.04 because they mentioned also upgrading to Ubuntu 14.04 but they would have to first upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 so I do not know if they meant to say they used 10.04 or 12.04 .04:04
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DocScrutinizer05wikiwide: (or whatever nick you're just using ;-P) for supercaps polarity is of vital relevance13:31
DocScrutinizer05if the mechanical dimensions fit, looks perfect for bupbat13:33
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DocScrutinizer05(polarity) so make damn sure you get the correct variant of component: *HR or *HL13:37
DocScrutinizer05for soldering: first plate the PCB pads and the component pins' downsides with a moderately thin layer of solder, add high quality no-clean SMD flux, then place component on PCB and reflow-solder with quite hot soldering iron (I suggest >400°C) first the smaller pin, then the larger, by pressing soldering iron tip wetted with some solder on top of the component pin metal area13:43
DocScrutinizer05the reflow process to mount the component should not take longer than 2 to 3 seconds max13:44
DocScrutinizer05overheating the component will cause permanent damage resulting in loss of capacitance and probably leakage13:45
DocScrutinizer05it's a tad counter-intuitive but the hotter the soldering iron, the less risk to overheat the component on reflow to mount to PCB13:46
DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: don't you install a completely fresh OS on any new computer you get, anyway?13:49
KotCzarnydoc, no, why? unless its windoze14:01
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DocScrutinizer05I never feel confidence in an installation I didn't do myself14:17
KotCzarnyi have one slack install that i just clone if i get new device14:17
DocScrutinizer05and actually it's way easier to do a full fresh install than any update and cleaning -out14:17
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: as I understand it, cloning an installation isn't always the optimal way to bring up a new hw platform, particularly when it differs significantly in hw features from the donor platform. You might miss out on relevant adjustments made during a regular installation process, like detecting which hw driver kernel modules are needed which which particular tweaks passed tot hem via parameters etc15:12
DocScrutinizer05extreme example: when the CPU architecture differs completely, like intel -> ARM. No dice a cloned system would work15:13
sixwheeledbeastI generally just rip my /home and dump that in there after fresh start.15:14
DocScrutinizer05on minor differences the target still may work but in a quite sub-optimal way in some aspects15:15
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: yeah, that's probably the canonical way15:31
DocScrutinizer05though even that sometimes causes problems when the desktop changed in some way15:33
DocScrutinizer05often updates run conversion scripts e.g. moving stuff from ~/.kde to ~/.local/kde15:36
KotCzarnysure, compile new kernel then15:36
DocScrutinizer05actually ~/.local/share/kde5/15:37
DocScrutinizer05and a few other new locations15:38
KotCzarnyi've tried different wm's, and i came to conclusion that all i need is solved by fluxbox, never looked back15:38
DocScrutinizer05sucks when that happens15:38
DocScrutinizer05and I admit I've yet to find a solution to that problem. Maybe there exists one involving special command parameters to apt-get, or something like `source /var/apt/postinstall/*` or somesuch15:46
sixwheeledbeastI have not experienced any of those issues with gnome flavour DE's16:12
DocScrutinizer05completely unrelated:
DocScrutinizer05really wow16:23
DocScrutinizer05camera can't really catch it. The complete wax surface starts burning16:24
DocScrutinizer05the "feed" is from a straw in a plastic bag I filled from a O2 generator16:25
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bencohdo we have a copy of maemo-optify git repository somewhere?19:08
bencohit was hosted on gitorious, but ....19:08
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brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: That video is neat but would be much better if the camera was held still. ;-)19:52
brolin_empey“don't you install a completely fresh OS on any new computer you get, anyway?”19:52
brolin_empeyIt depends upon the context/application/use case.  One of the benefits of GNU+Linux over Windows is ease of moving an OS installation to a different hardware configuration but Windows seems to be improving in this ability since the Windows NT 6.x era.  I often clone a bootable drive to continue using it in a different computer, often with a different hardware configuration.  Sometimes I use a clone of a clone (of a clone).  In this case, I think this Ubuntu19:52
brolin_empeyinstallation started with 8.04.x LTS when it was current, which means this same OS installation has been in use for over a decade by now so it would be a huge chore to manually recreate the same configuration if I started over with a new OS installation.  I want to use a computer to do things I enjoy or to get things done, not to spend weeks or even months on the same old chores over and over, such as starting over with a new OS installation.  Another19:52
brolin_empeyadvantage of GNU+Linux over Windows is that upgrading the OS in place to a newer release is usable feasible.  Theoretically, a Windows installation can be upgraded in place to a newer release as long as you continue using the same architecture but, in practice, I have never had this succeed.19:52
brolin_empeys/usable feasible/usually feasible/19:54
infobotbrolin_empey meant: advantage of GNU+Linux over Windows is that upgrading the OS in place to a newer release is usually feasible.  Theoretically, a Windows installation can be upgraded in place to a newer release as long as you continue using the same architecture but, in pr...19:54
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: Also, I think the computer architecture has to be the same at least in some cases, not only the processor architecture.  For example, and yes it is a mostly historical example by now, I do not know if the same m68k GNU+Linux installation can be used on both an Amiga and a Macintosh or some Atari computer or other computer using an m68k processor because the computer architecture is significantly different even if it uses the same processor.20:01
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brolin_empeyAs another historical example, both the PlayStation 2 and SGI workstations use some form of the MIPS architecture and both can run Linux but I do not know if the same Linux installation can work on both of them.20:07
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brolin_empeyI guess in some cases you may be able to use the same userspace or at least part of the same userspace even if you need different kernels, boot loaders, firmware, and so on for the different computer architectures.20:12
brolin_empeyIs it even feasible to use the same Linux kernel on different brands of the same ARM version, such as both the Qualcomm Snapdragon and Samsung Exynos variants of an ARMv7 computer from Samsung, such as the Galaxy Note 3?20:17
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brolin_empeyOh, NeXT and Sun originally used m68k too.  There used to be lots of different computer architectures using the same processor architecture, such as with the 6502 and m68k processor families.20:22
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: it's just a few scripts afaik20:39
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: and iirc it been community-provided anyway20:40
DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: >>...not to spend weeks or even months on the same old chores over and over,<< yeah, I try coping with this by more and more scripting of my OS customization20:42
DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: actually I'm pretty much in a similar situation like you, just coming from opposite extreme, where I had to realize a lot of my e.g. /etc/* customizations like for init jobs starting my "proprietary" stuff not only didn't magically appear in a new OS installation but actuaööy it wasn't even possible to just copy them from my old system since damn systemd messed up stuff completely20:46
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sixwheeledbeastbencoh: I don't see maemo-optify
sixwheeledbeastbencoh: maybe helpful?21:04
DocScrutinizer05wow, even perl:
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"21:39
DocScrutinizer05my very own take on optification ^^^21:40
DocScrutinizer05funny enough systemd / ran into a similar "problem" and solved it by the most idiotic and and ignorant way they could come up with: declaring /usr as obsolete and moving it to root /, the unifying it with /(s)bin21:42
KotCzarnycool beans21:43
KotCzarnyand there are people saying 'systemd is ok because distros use it'21:43
KotCzarnywhich means, distro maintainers are.. well..21:43
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DocScrutinizer0515 trillion flies can't be wrong - shit is delicious21:55
jrayhawkwhy would you want a separate /usr these days22:01
KotCzarnybecause it had an idea behind it22:02
jrayhawkit has like three ideas behind it, all of which are fulfilled better by modern initramfses and now cause complication for distro maintainers and vendors22:04
KotCzarnyand now you will say they are fullfilled by systemd alone22:09
jrayhawkAFAIK systemd isn't particularly relevant to initramfs22:09
jrayhawkMaybe the udev component.22:09
bencohsixwheeledbeast: I eventually retrieved it from the repository source package(apt-get source), but thanks :)22:12
bencohwhat bothers me is that part of maemo-related git projects are no longer available along with their full git history22:13
bencohI vaguely recall someone dumped pretty much eveyrthing back then, though22:14
MaxdamantusI just have maemo's root in /home22:32
Maxdamantusso it's all on eMMC22:32
DocScrutinizer05how's initramfs relevant for partition size?22:49
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DocScrutinizer05  >> Rationale:    The primary concern used to balance these considerations, which favor placing many things on the root filesystem, is the goal of keeping root as small as reasonably possible. [...] <<23:16
DocScrutinizer05Poetterings argument to ignore this: "who cares, there are no systems anymore that have less than $[whatever randomly picked ridiculous number, like 1GB] sized root partition"23:19
DocScrutinizer05Poettering further: >>systems like embedded which might actually have a smaller root partition are simply not the target of systemd<<23:20
bencohat least those would be free of this horror23:22
DocScrutinizer05he clearly says he simply doesn't care if a standard linux, which according to him (and alas de facto) now comes with systemd, can get installed on those embedded systems. Systemd is *only* caring about deslktop systems, actually not even laptops are getting tested for any problems introduced by systemd to their rather different usage patterns23:24
DocScrutinizer05which resulted in a guy not being able to boot his laptop at restaurant since the WLAN was different to the one found at home23:25
KotCzarnythey are not the target, yet, being cluelessly used by distros for everything23:29
DocScrutinizer05it's this mindset and attitude that makes me hate this guy, the attitude of re-arranging and restructuring large parts of the system core with a bulldozer in a totally careless way, leaving it to a hundreds of more skilled and experienced developers to pick up the pieces and fix the damage done to all the domains Mr Poettering was not interested in23:35
KotCzarnyand idiots all over the world quaffing that shit happily23:42
KotCzarny'because it's in distro's default\23:42
sicelospinal has made systemd version of Maemo Leste and reports faster bootup23:44
brolin_empeyShould I open a still sealed can of tuna if its “best before” date is almost five years ago?23:48
KotCzarnysicelo: sure, any numbers?23:49
KotCzarnyalso, how many times do you boot your phone?23:50
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siceloi never got to test it.23:52
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