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| sixwheeledbeast | messybox? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| Wikiwide | No idea. Might be somewhat similar to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=225 | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> So *maybe* the environment within the desktop application is running with a wrong timezone.<< | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | environment settings in maemo are tricky | 00:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | would the date binary be in messybox :thinks: | 00:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~pkg | 00:15 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ | 00:15 |
| Wikiwide | Yes, time binary is from busybox | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/N4dUYtcF | 00:18 |
| Wikiwide | tzconfig, just like date, persists with Lord Howe Island timezone, disregarding Settings->Date and time | 00:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | So it's currently zulu +10.5? not Zulu +11? | 00:22 |
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| Wikiwide | Yes. So date shows one thing, and clock shows another. | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure maemo doesn't care about $TZ $LC_ALL etc | 00:24 |
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| Wikiwide | tzconfig seems to be getting it from /etc/localtime somehow | 00:24 |
| KotCzarny | there are few libc implementations | 00:24 |
| KotCzarny | glibc, busybox's one, uclibc etc | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | though https://termbin.com/wzxi set|grep '^LC'|nc termbin.com 9999 | 00:25 |
| Wikiwide | Problem is, date's half-an-hour ahead of reality time gets used by other things, such as, phone call log. Very inconvenient. | 00:25 |
| Wikiwide | I have everything en_AU except for LC_MESSAGES and LC_TIME, which are en_GB | 00:27 |
| Wikiwide | Lord Howe comes from readlink /etc/localtime | 00:30 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Isn't /etc/localtime normally a symlink to /usr/share/zoneinfo/foo/bar ? | 00:30 |
| Wikiwide | Yes, it is. But why is it a symlink to Lord Howe, and not to Adelaide or Sydney or whatever? Why does a change in GUI settings fail to affect date and tzconfig and localtime? | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is special, don't get fooled | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly around everything time, quite a few things work different than you'd expect assuming maemo was debian or ubuntu | 00:34 |
| Wikiwide | Is it even typical for maemo to have /etc/localtime symlink, or is it usually falling back onto some other mechanism for timezones? | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check "set time: automatic" in settings, which not only adjusts system clock but also timezone according to what the cellular network says | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you didn't mess up stuff by using standard debian means to alter it | 00:36 |
| Wikiwide | Hmm, I used tzconfig to set timezone to Adelaide. That's a patchy fix - I don't get why GUI didn't work, and I don't get why Sydney cellular network pretends it's Adelaide - but at least, it's consistent. | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite possible the symlink (if there's any, even) points to one particular file statically and when TZ gets changed by maemo stuff then the *content* of the file gets changed | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe this is total BS I just made up | 00:38 |
| Wikiwide | Nay, symlink pointed to Lord Howe, not to a statical hold-anything file | 00:39 |
| Wikiwide | Now it points to Adelaide | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 2019-02-25 22:32 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin | 00:40 |
| Wikiwide | Yes, problem is, GUI changes didn't change date or tzconfig or localtime, whether they were manual or automatic | 00:40 |
| Wikiwide | GUI is probably broken. Which sounds weird | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 842 2015-02-28 19:16 /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin | 00:41 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Time zones make no sense over there anyway... | 00:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Brizzy ignore DST, some have half hour DST shift. o.O | 00:41 |
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| Wikiwide | Aka applet-datetime | 00:42 |
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| Wikiwide | Where does control panel log errors from its applets? | 00:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Setting my device to automatic never seems to fix the time/date. | 00:44 |
| Wikiwide | sixwheeledbeast: does 'date' at least change its output when you change timezone in Settings? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: depends on network providing the info afaik | 00:46 |
| Wikiwide | It provides info, just, the timezone is 'Adelaide', in Sydney ;-) | 00:47 |
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| Wikiwide | That's critical infrastructure. If trains go mad (say, one train has one time, another train has a different time - depending on which cellular provider is for which train, or which software the train is using; they try to run by timetable, and collide head-on) | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure trains are not supposed to use cellphones as timer normal | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't speak for Australia | 00:50 |
| Wikiwide | Hopefully not. But GPS and cellular chips are very close to each other, and using GPS for time is common. | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | here you get lynched for doing this | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GPS time is pretty unrelated to cellular | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however maemo might actually use GPS when celular signal not available | 00:51 |
| Wikiwide | Yes, but what if GPS signal isn't locked yet?.. Or is GPS time much faster to get than GPS almanach? | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you get a first fix within iirc 45s | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even without almanach | 00:52 |
| Wikiwide | And, GPS doesn't provide a timezone. I think. | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, only coords ;-D | 00:52 |
| Wikiwide | So, where do trains get timezone from? | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from their own signaling & communications infra? | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they neither use cellphones tzo talk to next station | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, not public cellphone networks, thjey got their own | 00:54 |
| Wikiwide | Communications infra? Is it cellular, or something else (wires, radio, something)? | 00:54 |
| Wikiwide | Well, their own are probably better configured. | 00:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | /etc/localtime symlink changes when you change the timezone with the clock. I have 9.55 in Sydney | 00:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | date is the same as clock | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | often at 400some MHz | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 2G | 00:56 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wouldn't be surprised to learn messybox-extended or whatever the name is messing up all environment using some chenged ~/.profile or .bashrc or whatever during system boot | 00:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I recommended to NEVER change the system messybox since it's used during boot incl all flaws and glitches it has | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody listened | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough this applies only to *user* messybox, not root's | 01:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | automatic seemed to work and set the clock correctly this time | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | takes up to 15 minutes sometimes | 01:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 is missing a systemwide file related function tracing option | 01:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like "at <time>, <who/PID> did <operation> to <FQN/filename> with <result>" | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might do this if I'd strace PID1 before it starts forking child processes | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a sketch of how to do a faintly similar approach, somewhere in maemo developers' howto | 01:29 |
| Maxdamantus | Trains shouldn't need a timezone to operate correctly. Timezones are just presentational, they're not part of the notion of "a time" | 01:33 |
| Maxdamantus | "now" for me is the same time as "now" for you. We might just have different ways of expressing that same time. | 01:34 |
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| Maxdamantus | Internally, sensible systems just represent the time uniformly, so my phone and your phone and my computer and all the GPS satellites all know how many seconds have passed since it was Jan 1 1970 in UTC+0 | 01:36 |
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| Maxdamantus | Actually, GPS has a different representation of the time, based on Jan 1 1980 in UTC+0, and counting uing weeks and stuff. | 01:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Hopefully maemo knows how to handle the next rollover, which happens in a few months (happens every 19.6 or so years) | 01:42 |
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| Wikiwide | Survived reboot. So kernel power v53 has installed correctly, I guess. | 05:09 |
| brolin_empey | Reportedly time zones were originally created to use instead of true local time to synchronise railway schedules. | 05:21 |
| brolin_empey | Both Linus Torvalds and John Carmack were born close to 1970‑01‑01. | 05:47 |
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| Maxdamantus | I think Torvalds' birthday is supposedly in the source code somewhere. | 08:08 |
| Maxdamantus | as a magic number that userspace is meant to send to the kernel to cause a reboot or something. | 08:09 |
| Maxdamantus | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4808748/magic-numbers-of-the-linux-reboot-system-call | 08:10 |
| Maxdamantus | His kids' too. | 08:11 |
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| brolin_empey | Apparently my DIY microSIM→nanoSIM conversion succeeded because my now nanoSIM card that began as a miniSIM card in 2009 and was converted to a microSIM card in 2014 seems to work in the LG G5. :-D | 09:41 |
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| auenf | brolin_empey, what about if the contacts on my minisim are larger than a microsim size :P | 10:11 |
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| brolin_empey | auenf: Contacts as in electrical contacts or as in persons? | 10:14 |
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| auenf | elecrical contacts :P | 10:33 |
| auenf | although the sim i'm referring to (which i have since replaced) wasnt an USIM anyway | 10:33 |
| Vajb | ~backupmenu | 10:35 |
| infobot | [backupmenu] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install | 10:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | As the sims have gone through the generations they support different voltages and number of electrical contacts IIRC. | 10:35 |
| auenf | yes, and sims prior to USIM arent guaranteed to pickup 3G signals | 10:36 |
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| Vajb | problem: backupmenu doesn't work | 11:05 |
| Vajb | here is what I did: | 11:05 |
| Vajb | 1 Flashed stock kernel | 11:05 |
| Vajb | 2 Removed all the traces of backupmenu related stuff and made sure that that white menu does not appear when booting keyboard open | 11:06 |
| Vajb | 3 reinstalled backupmenu via link which I got from channel bot | 11:06 |
| Vajb | 4 booted keyboard open, got white bootloader. Selected middle option (the one which should bring up actual backupmenustuff) | 11:07 |
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| Vajb | 5 device loads awhile and reboots | 11:14 |
| Vajb | so where did I go wrong? Why it does not work? Any suggestions? | 11:14 |
| Vajb | It is starting to seem that I wont be doing any kind of backup of this device | 11:15 |
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| Vajb | going to see what I get with default backup application. | 11:23 |
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| Wikiwide | This may be of interest for 3D model of battery cover: http://afrodita.zcu.cz/~skala/PUBL/PUBL_2013/2013_3D-Scan-SIGGRAPH-poster-A0.pdf | 13:36 |
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| Wikiwide | Same people, different publication: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download/doi/10.1.1.696.7915?rep=rep1&type=pdf | 13:42 |
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| Vajb | I think that problem is backupmenu not finding /usr/share/backupmenu/BakupMenuLauncher.item, but I have no idea why. | 17:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | only internal show in bm? | 17:18 |
| Vajb | both entries are shown, but it doesn't find what it seeks and just reboots | 17:21 |
| Vajb | so I guess launcher is not found | 17:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | no not the same as this then http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1455798&postcount=1337 | 17:21 |
| Vajb | my other device states what it is booting | 17:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/no/so/ | 17:21 |
| infobot | sixwheeledbeast meant: so not the same as this then http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1455798&postcount=1337 | 17:21 |
| Vajb | might as well try | 17:27 |
| Vajb | removed find as suggested and recreated symlink | 17:27 |
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| Vajb | well did nothing | 17:36 |
| Vajb | thanks for suggesting | 17:39 |
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| Vajb | \o/ finally I made a backup. It seems my guess was right. When I place BackupMenuLauncher.item in to /etc/bootmenu.d it worked as expected | 18:08 |
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| Vajb | yet another joke is that my phone refuses to charge :p | 18:47 |
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| Vajb | I suspect it is because flashing stock kernel messed up something. Apt now thinks that kernel power is installed but uname shows it is stock | 18:48 |
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| Vajb | and I guess that will be the state of my backup too, but oh well now I have backup to play with to fix this | 18:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | backup will be an img of the current state. Why would apt care about kp? | 18:52 |
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| Vajb | well it shows that kp is installed but kernel in use is stock | 18:54 |
| Vajb | I guess I'll have to fix it by hand. Removing kp and all it dependencies and reinstall them again | 18:55 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I don't see an issue with having multiple kernels? Doesn't uboot have the option to boot either? | 19:05 |
| Vajb | I guess it would have but I don't have it | 19:08 |
| Vajb | then what you think would cause device to not charge anymore? | 19:09 |
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| Vajb | battery just says "no data or battery is not calibrated" | 19:10 |
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| Vajb | if I attach charger when device is turned off it just starts and starts. If I attach charger when it is on, it does nothing | 19:11 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | what have you installed recently? | 19:19 |
| sixwheeledbeast | testing? | 19:19 |
| Vajb | flashed stock kernel via flasher | 19:21 |
| Vajb | that is only thing I did more | 19:21 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | that would probably explain the charging issue then. maybe --reinstall if you feel brave? | 19:31 |
| Vajb | umm reinstall stock or reinstall kp? | 19:35 |
| Vajb | or reflash stockä? | 19:35 |
| Vajb | -ä | 19:36 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | kp | 19:47 |
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| Vajb | didn't help | 21:03 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | is the kernel in use? | 21:19 |
| sixwheeledbeast | kp | 21:19 |
| Vajb | nope | 21:35 |
| Vajb | gonna change full battery now | 21:35 |
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| Vajb | reinstall went smoothly, but stock kernel is still in use | 21:39 |
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| Vajb | hehe n900 is really testing me now. First backuprestore was not very succesfullä | 21:45 |
| Vajb | whined about timestamps being in the future and resulted unbootable device | 21:46 |
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| Vajb | ok. Charge issue fixed. Removed kernel-power and all its dependencies. Reinstalled them from the notes and reboot. Profit! | 23:36 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Ohhh profit. | 23:49 |
| Vajb | and since backuprestore was also succesfull I had indentical device to test other approach which was "reinstall kernel-power-flasher" instant profit! | 23:52 |
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