IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2018-02-17

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DocScrutinizer51kernel updates work as usual, just you need to update a zimage file instead of flashing a binary to a NAND partition01:26
DocScrutinizer51the maemo stock kernel packed together with uboot as siamese twin file for flashing to NAND will never see any updates, I guess01:27
DocScrutinizer51what you update is e.g. the uboot powerkernel image file01:28
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CatButtsooh, keepassx updated01:41
CatButtsI hope it's a pleasant surprise and a usable GUI :P01:42
CatButtsit is01:44
CatButtsthey unfuckled the topbar menu01:44
CatButtsand made it usable on the n90001:44
CatButtskudos to that01:44
pkill9Wizzup: is it possible to tell the kernel to only charge up to 80% battery in maemo-leste?01:47
pkill9if possible it would be good to have that option01:48
pkill9nice CatButts01:48
CatButts previous state :P01:50
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sixwheeledbeastOh. 1 feb it was pushed to repo, still only v1 db's tho.02:03
pkill9what does it look liek now CatButts?02:07
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DocScrutinizer05pkill9: that's a question of charging hardware more than a question of kernel. condonable but severe very common misconception03:10
DocScrutinizer05not everything in a device is software03:10
DocScrutinizer05it's actually a controversial consideration if charging and battery management is a genuine kernel task at all, even when a particular hardware allows or requires software taking care about battery management03:13
DocScrutinizer05anyway in N900 you can't really do charge-80%03:14
DocScrutinizer05well, you could but that's a very hacky thing then, and for sure has no place in kernel03:15
DocScrutinizer05btw charge-80 is way less effective than discharge-3003:16
DocScrutinizer05regarding battery live span03:16
DocScrutinizer05IOW don't deplete your battery further than 30, ideally 50% SOC, ever03:18
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DocScrutinizer05one 80->0 cycle is as damaging to battery as maybe 5 100->30 cycles03:19
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pkill9oh ok03:23
DocScrutinizer05and unlike charge-80, the system actually could do shutdown at discharge-30, you even could configure that. Not a kernel issue either03:23
pkill9what about charge 800>3003:23
pkill980->30 *03:23
pkill9would that be the best?03:24
pkill9if so, maybe just configure an alert sound when it reaches 80% charge03:24
DocScrutinizer05as mentioned, it's not really supported by hardware to stop charging at 60%. you need nasty software hacks to make the phone stop charging before end-of-cahrge got detected03:24
pkill9like my dumbphone beeps every now and then when it's fully charged and still plugged in03:24
DocScrutinizer05s/60/80/ whatever03:24
pkill9no i mean, is it best for battery longevity to stop charging at 80% and start charging at 30%03:25
pkill9just manually disconnecting from power when it reaches 80% charge03:25
DocScrutinizer05yes, that would be best for battery. well almost. better is 50<->8503:26
pkill9shame battery tech sucks on smartphones03:26
DocScrutinizer05disconnecting from battery however means you start another discharge cycle03:26
DocScrutinizer05err disconnecting from charger03:27
DocScrutinizer05while N900 would either start recharging when battery falls to 76 or 80% and stops when battery charge current falls below a threshold of iirc 16mA03:28
DocScrutinizer05and a 100->75->100 cycle is easier to the battery than a 80->30->80 cycle03:29
DocScrutinizer05even assuming you would re-connect the charger as soon as battery falls to 30%03:29
DocScrutinizer05odds are you forget it and battery discharges to EndOfCharge voltage, that does damage to the battery03:30
DocScrutinizer05as a matter of fact, my N900 are udling at charger and charged to 100% at 96% of the time, hardly ever discharging further than 50%, and the batteries survived that in pretty good condition for 5 and more years03:32
DocScrutinizer05this minute:
DocScrutinizer05usually it has even lower floating charge current, but I used it off-charger for a 10 minutes some gours ago03:36
DocScrutinizer05might also be the Polarcell that behaves a tad different03:38
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 charger design is superior. That's why you could start up a Neo900 without any battery at all inside, or with completely depleted battery. No bootloop deadlock for flashing ;-)03:44
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys flatbat03:45
infobotFactoid search of 'flatbat' by key (2): flatbatrecover #DEL# ;; flatbatrecover.03:45
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber shut off -> start over again with ~flatbatrecover while already searching for a new battery. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs OK (no ~bootloop)03:45
infoboti guess bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.03:46
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brolin_empeyCatButts: Are you using Windows 10 for x86-64?  If yes, you can try to use the Linux subsystem for Windows 10 to run x86-64 (ELF) Linux executables on Windows 10.08:28
brolin_empeyThere are also a few other (all inactive inclusive-or only for old versions of Windows NT?) third-party/community projects to run Linux ELF executables on Windows NT, such as , , and LINE.08:43
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: You can boot an N900 or other mobile computer whose hardware is designed so that the computer is always powered by the battery terminals without a battery installed if you use a laboratory/bench power supply to directly power the battery terminals. ;-)08:49
brolin_empeySeriously, I did that after the USB connector broke/came loose on my first N900.08:51
brolin_empeySpeaking of USB connectors, I keep forgetting that I wanted to check if something exists as a COTS product: a USB cable with both a microUSB plug and a USB Type C plug (I think plug?) on one end of the cable, like the StarTech USB cables I have with both a miniUSB plug and a microUSB plug on one end of the cable.08:56
brolin_empeyThe only device I have that uses a USB Type C connector is still the XHCI PCI Express card I used to add USB 3 connectivity to my LGA775/Socket-T (Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad) tower computer at home and work.09:00
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CatButts[08:28] <brolin_empey> CatButts: Are you using Windows 10 for x86-64?  If yes, you can try to use the Linux subsystem for Windows 10 to run x86-64 (ELF) Linux executables on Windows 10.09:07
CatButtswindows XP09:07
brolin_empeyCatButts: Windows XP for x86-32?09:10
brolin_empeyCatButts: Then you can try to use LBW if you install Interix.  Why are you still using Windows XP, though?09:11
CatButtsI feel at home!09:12
brolin_empeyCatButts: Because you live in 2001?09:12
CatButtsoh, so LBW is like WSL, before the WSL, right?09:14
brolin_empeyOr 2008 for Windows XP Service Pack 3, which was released only for x86-32 even though Windows XP was released for x86-64 in 2005.09:14
CatButtsI use the POSReady 2009 variant09:15
CatButtsI stop getting updates this year :P09:15
CatButtsmy goal is to try my hand at making a portable, standalone zip with tools09:16
MaxdamantusTime to become a luser.09:16
CatButtsI'd rather be a win-ner09:17
CatButtsI brush with linux from time to time, but I'd rather windows for desktop use09:18
CatButtsand everyday use09:18
brolin_empeyMaxdamantus: Dave Cutler is my hero. ;-)09:18
CatButts huston, we have a problem09:19
CatButtssame filenames with different case09:19
CatButtsonly some of netfilter headers, out of all SDK source have this09:19
MaxdamantusI did that once.09:20
MaxdamantusShould probably avoid that if I get around to continuing with that project.09:20
CatButtsso, what is typical use of these headers09:22
CatButtsno doubt, I will be missing them, and any pack I will be making wil be at best a half-arsed deal, due to this alone09:23
brolin_empeyWindows NT can, with its Installable File System support, support *nix file systems such as ext2/3/4 where it is somewhat common to have a directory containing multiple entries whose names differ only in case.09:24
CatButtsbut it's implemented in such a way, that you have to explicitly call for that support09:24
CatButtsI suppose it's a remanent of old DOS/early windows days09:25
brolin_empeyI do not remember but NTFS may support that use case even if it requires changing the default configuration.09:25
CatButtsit does09:25
CatButtsit is in fact, case sensitive09:25
CatButts>The older Microsoft Windows filesystems VFAT and FAT32 are not case-sensitive, but are case-preserving.09:26
CatButtsthere you go09:26
CatButtsup to win9809:27
CatButtsmaybe early NT09:27
CatButts>Starting with Windows NT 3.1, [NTFS]it is the default file system of Windows NT family.09:27
CatButtsso, what be these headers I pointed out?09:28
CatButtsfrom the little reading I've done, I gather it's network packet manipulation09:28
brolin_empeyWindows NT 3.1 is the first final/public release of Windows NT, from 1993.09:29
brolin_empeyWindows 98 is not the last release of the original Windows series.  Windows Me is.09:31
CatButtsthen I stand corrected09:31
DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: I'm EE, why do you tell me such obvious stuff?09:32
DocScrutinizer05I referred to Neo900's ability to boot from USB power without battery09:34
brolin_empeyVFAT can be used on all of FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32.  I can even use VFAT on FAT12 on a 5.25-inch flexible disc on Windows 10 for x86-64 if I want.09:34
DocScrutinizer05since the charger is unrelated to the system power branch09:34
DocScrutinizer05so even while the battery is low voltage, the USB can provide sufficient voltage to the Vsys rail09:35
DocScrutinizer05it will throttle battery charging sufficiently to not exceed the configured VBUS supply minus the Vsys current09:37
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DocScrutinizer05so worst case the system can consume 100% of the power available from VBUS, while battery doesn't get charged at all during that time09:38
DocScrutinizer05for modem operation, you need a 2A USB power supply09:39
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: I was joking by being literal because I redd some message from you saying something about booting without a battery installed usually not being possible (on N900 or other common mobile computer design, not on Neo900).  I quickly looked through the backlog but do not see the message I was referencing.09:39
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* CatButts measures header inclusion damage recursively09:43
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brolin_empeyCatButts: When you mount vfat on Linux, you should specify shortname=winnt in the mount options.10:02
CatButtsI assume that's what n900 does by default with the MyDocs10:03
DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: aah ok, sorry I'm a tad tired and so didn't notice the joke10:06
DocScrutinizer05pkill9: sequel to my former post:
Wizzuppkill9: doubt it10:10
DocScrutinizer05CatButts: mount ->>  /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir)10:13
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: Anyway, many things are not obvious if you have not studied a subject from an accurate and up-to-date source or are otherwise not familiar with a subject.10:19
brolin_empeyIs it obvious that I cannot literally give you two cents in cash because I live in Canada, which removed the 0.01 CAD coin from circulation a few years ago? ;-)10:24
brolin_empeyI mean I cannot give you exactly 0.02 CAD in cash but I can still give you exactly 0.05 CAD in cash.10:28
* DocScrutinizer05 hands brolin_empey a plate shears10:51
DocScrutinizer05I guess 0.125CAD (a quarter) will do for all practical purposes, also eliminates lots of debates about precision  of the cutting10:54
DocScrutinizer05I'm pretty sure your 5ct is also worth more in metal than the nominal value, like all those mini coins do, almost everywhere10:55
CatButtsI got bored and made dependency map of pesky netfilter files11:07
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brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: Did you mean 0.0125 CAD?11:24
DocScrutinizer05err yes, sorry11:24
brolin_empeyOK.  I think that would be technically illegal to cut a coin, though, because the tangible money (cash) is the property of the government?11:27
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DocScrutinizer05not sure11:40
DocScrutinizer05depends on country and legislation11:41
KotCzarnymaybe that's why they are afraid of bitcoins11:45
brolin_empeyIncidentally: Does MediaWiki seriously lack the ability to return all items that are in multiple categories, such as both “Mobile phones with an integrated hardware keyboard” and “Android (operating system) devices”?  It seems that the answer is yes but I do not think I have ever actually taken the time to search the Internet for an answer to this question.11:53
brolin_empeyThe English-language Wikipedia should also have a category for mobile devices using an x86 SoC since such devices are a minority compared to devices using an ARM SoC, in case someone has plenty of free time (CatButts?).11:57
CatButtsyes, stick ReactOS on mobile phone11:57
CatButtswhat would these even use?11:57
CatButtsAtom CPUs?11:57
CatButtssomething of low TDP, anyway11:58
CatButtsand low power as well11:58
brolin_empeyCatButts: Yes, usually an Intel Atom SoC for somewhat recent devices.11:59
CatButtsReactOS does compile to ARM12:01
CatButtskind of a novelty, in my mind12:02
CatButtsI imagine emulating x86 and a low-end(by today's standards) ARM device would pe12:02
CatButtshighly unpleasant user experience12:03
CatButtswould it be slower than running applications through Java Runtime?12:03
CatButtsI imagine so12:03
CatButts*on a low-end12:05
CatButtsI think I need to put food in my stomach, I can't even type properly anymore12:05
brolin_empeyWindows NT for ARM began shipping years ago, first when Windows Phone 8 (if I recall correctly) replaced the Windows CE kernel with the Windows NT kernel.  Windows 10 was released for the Raspberry Pi version 2 and later.12:10
CatButtsI think they also have emulation12:12
CatButtsx86 on ARM12:13
CatButtsor x86-5412:13
brolin_empeyFew notebook computers used to use an AMD x86 CPU but that situation seems to be changing.12:16
brolin_empeyYes, at least HP and Asus have announced plans to release a notebook computer running Windows 10 on a Qualcomm (Snapdragon) ARM SoC later this year.12:18
* CatButts gently pats ReactOS on head and watches it grow slower than paint dries12:20
CatButtsI call it pessimistic admiration12:20
brolin_empeyI wonder if any of these notebook computers will use an LED display instead of an LCD.12:21
brolin_empeyWoz finally met Jack Tramiel near the end of Jack’s life but I wonder if Woz or Steve Jobs ever met Chuck Peddle.12:26
pkill9i tried ReacTOS in a VM, i liked the retro feel, it really felt like using windows 9813:07
pkill9other than that, it doesn't do much, lol13:07
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CatButtsit's pretty much alpha13:09
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Juestoof the maemo original devs, which are remaining with interest in maemo?17:17
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MartiniMoehi there! :) im looking for firmware and flasher (for linux) for my n900. sadly i dont get the hint in the topic >_> could anyone help me?17:59
infobotrefer ~flashing; (also .exe!), or or generally   HARMattan(N9):; list of filenames/md5sums:, or
JuestoMartiniMoe: ^17:59
infobotfrom memory, firmware is please see ~combined ~emmc ~flasher17:59
MartiniMoeJuesto: ah, a bot, thanks! :)18:00
JuestoMartiniMoe: you type what does the topic says18:00
infobot[#maemo lazyflashing]
MartiniMoethats great! :D18:02
infobotcombined is, like, the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or, or
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sixwheeledbeastIf flashing from linux lf is the way.21:09
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infobotsomebody said #maemo lazyflashing was
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