IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2018-01-22

Wizzup - devuan ascii on n900 with h-d00:39
Wizzup3d is not yet powervr, we need to resolve one more issue there, but should not be too far out00:40
pkill9what's h-d?00:49
Wizzupbut also hildon-home and some others00:50
Wizzupbasically the window manager on the n900 and some other things00:50
pkill9that is niiice00:50
Wizzupwe'll try to make a dd-able image for sd card this week I think00:50
pkill9:D thanks for the work00:51
pkill9so does this use a much newer kernel?00:51
Wizzupsee picture - yes00:51
pkill9sorry didn't look carefully00:52
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siceloWizzup: yay!07:39
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Juest0nice, so it is completed yet?07:48
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WizzupJuest0: no, but when we have a ddable developer image in a week or two, we can try to get more people involved09:53
Wizzuponce there is a stable base, adding other things might be easier09:54
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Juest0no other platforms than arm and n900 yet?10:17
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Juest0alright thanks Wizzup10:17
WizzupJuest0: freemangordon has been testing on amd6410:17
Juest0how that went10:17
Wizzupwell, it runs?10:17
Juest0all of it?10:18
Wizzupno, what I showed you10:18
Juest0oh right10:18
Wizzupthere's a lot of things that are not ported, this is just the base10:18
Wizzuphopefully more people can then show up and help porting more :)10:18
Juest0well, the base runs? :p10:18
Wizzuphildon-desktop and such, yes10:18
Juest0im yet to upgrade my devuan vm and i am running low on disk space plus an infected installation i am yet to resolve :(10:19
Wizzupwait a week or two :)10:21
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enycWizzup: hrrm...   to what extent can new kerenl be used with original maemo system, too ... ?15:25
Wizzupidk, some parts might work, others not, it's been done before with pali's kernel, but requires some changes to rootfs as well15:26
Wizzupnot interested in looking backwards though :)15:26
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enycWizzup: intention is to have a working system that integrates with existing open parts of maemo/hildon  or so ???15:28
Wizzupintention is to have a modern base (devuan/debian) with maemo/hildon components so that it can be used as a phone/internet-tablet just like n900, on the n900 and other phones15:32
Wizzupwill write more about it soon15:32
enycWizzup: goodgood!15:35
pkill9Wizzup: how close are you to releasing it?15:37
enycWizzup: My input towards testers -- you mention SD cards...    It would be really good if you could make decent howto  for SD-card-only based install,  with howot make existing common  maemo "bootmenu"  able to provide this as a boot-option.   Preferably, workable as "extra" partition on larger sd-card, allowing existing maemo with /media/mmc1  to co-exist  with  'experimental devuan on /media/mmc1p3 sort of15:38
enycthing....    Not everybody will have/want separate-n900 or so to 'test' with.    Not everybody will be u-boot/etc expert.15:38
Wizzupenyc: this is how IU use it15:42
Wizzuphow I use it15:42
Wizzupsd card only15:42
Wizzupif you have u-boot installed via ham you only need to select 'boot from sd card' or type 'run sdboot'15:42
Wizzupit's not rocket science15:42
Wizzupbut yes, we'll do some writeup15:43
enycWizzup: ok, what about those using "bootmenu" rather than "u-boot" ?15:43
Wizzupenyc: bootmenu is u-boot15:43
enycWizzup: check, don't assume, it may be awrapper around it or so15:43
Wizzupdoubti t15:43
Wizzupit's just u-boot with some scripts15:43
enycWizzup: yes, check the  wrapper-scripts etc  WORK with your arrangement15:44
Wizzupenyc: I don't understand why you act like that, I know it's u-boot15:44
enycWizzup: because i don't have a definite confirmation/explanation what the  "bootmenu" wrapper-scripts/tools are15:44
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enycWizzup: also, the other thing that would be worth checking, is  "co-existance"  with  sd-card maemo data parttiton and maemo Swap-on-SD-card  (flopswap).   Is it possible to have those working with maemo "as usual" and  have  a e.g. 4th partition on the SD-card, to "boot devuan from" ?15:45
Wizzupbootmenu is u-boot with some scripts that generate u-boot config file/menu15:45
Wizzupenyc: yes15:46
enycWizzup: excellent =)15:46
enycok, good =)  write those all up,  collect seggusionts etc etc, highly agree!15:46
enycdo you have maemo-camera working in devuan ?15:46
enycerr n900 camera i mean15:47
WizzupI don't know, didn't check yet, other stuff to sort first. What we want it something that boots and is usable for development, and then developers can pick this up15:47
enycdev environment includes qemu-system-arm chroot ??15:48
enycerr qemu-user-arm i mean15:48
bencohenyc: for n900 mainline support:
bencohit's relatively up-to-date15:48
Wizzupenyc: no, not at this point15:49
enycbencoh: ooooooooooooooooooh recent kernels ...15:49
bencohWizzup: btw, building arm packages on devuan/ascii (or debian/stretch) is as simple as runing dpkg-buildpackages, except for packages where multilib/paths support is broken15:50
Wizzupbencoh: do you mean dpkg-buildpackage sorts out the cross compiler or qemu stuff15:50
bencohcross-compiler stuff (no qemu as far as I can tell), yes15:50
Wizzupwell, we also have autobuild env, but yeah15:51
bencohall you have to do is install the deps for the target arch15:51
WizzupI've done most of the powervr testing on the deviec itself via ssh15:51
Wizzupbencoh: neat15:51
bencohxorg-server is broken for instance, and you need to relocate its .pc file to build packages depending on it15:52
bencohnothing too difficult though :)15:52
Wizzupbencoh: in the end we'd want everything in jenkins/ci15:54
bencohWizzup: native build, or cross?15:55
Wizzupbencoh: everything at is already native ly built15:55
bencohI know15:55
enychrrm nokia-n900's expensive to find now ??15:56
bencohunfortunately there is no real (working) cross build environment for debian (apart from the one I mentioned, but it's still not completely supported)15:56
bencohenyc: depends on where you live and what you're looking for15:56
Wizzupenyc: bout 25 euro15:58
bencohWizzup: seriously? where from?15:58
WizzupI bought about 5 for that price15:58
bencohhmm ... okay, I really need to get one15:59
bencohany link? :)15:59
Wizzupthey only ship to nl, it's refurbished, but I can get one and send it your way15:59
Wizzupit's like a dutch ebay15:59
bencohthat'd be awesome :)15:59
Wizzupok, poke me about it a bit later :)16:00
bencohsure ... thanks! :)16:00
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enycbencoh: I (thought) the core of debian (compliers etc) is all that really 'needs' to cross-build, then qemu-user chroots  (or real hardare) can do rest of the work ?16:27
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DocScrutinizer05bootmenu is *inside* linux, called from preinit. uBoot is *before* linux23:25
DocScrutinizer05it's just Pali decided to bastardize the bootmenu file hierarchy and syntax to configure uBoot by running a wizard that "compiles" the uBoot config file from bootmenu special entries23:28
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DocScrutinizer05but technically bootmenu and uBoot are totally orhogonal23:28
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DocScrutinizer05hi freemangordon :-)23:31
DocScrutinizer05and then there once been (*DEPRECATED*) multiboot that flashed a new kernel from within the system and then rebooted the system into another system. Obviously something every normal MoBo manual warns you NOT to do regularly and only with very stable and secure power supply23:34
infobotmaemo-multiboot is, like, deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED23:35
DocScrutinizer05to put it even more concise and to the point: multiboot is a shellscript run by busybox, uBoot is a bootloader to load kernels and hand them rootfs pointers23:44
DocScrutinizer05to put it even more concise and to the point: bootmenu is a shellscript run by busybox, uBoot is a bootloader to load kernels and hand them rootfs pointers23:44
DocScrutinizer05backupmenu is a "plugin" for bootmenu23:45
DocScrutinizer05so you can think of bootmenu as maemo's "init s"23:46
DocScrutinizer05which is another occasion that shows clearly why we don't want systemd in maemo23:47
Juestohey freemangordon how is the amd64 experience of hildon coming?23:48
DocScrutinizer05not like systemd could even run maemo since both want exclusive control over cgroups23:48
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MaxdamantusTo be fair, systemd doesn't have to be the first process that is ever run, like with practically any sane init system.23:54
Maxdamantusas long as the "bootmenu" execs it as pid 1, it shouldn't conflict with bootmenu itself.23:54
Maxdamantuson my (Debian) system at work, my initramfs mounts the root filesystem, pivot_roots into it and execs systemd.23:56

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