IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2017-12-04

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CatButtshey guise, what image viewers are out there for N900/Maemo?14:33
CatButtsI don't like default one14:34
KotCzarnyany linux one14:39
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CatButtswell, I'd have to get of me arse and get acqualinted with the SDK15:00
CatButts"it's as easy as typing 'make'!"15:01
CatButtsfeh is nice15:06
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bencohfeh could use some n900-specific patching though15:17
bencohbut yeah, it's "nice" :)15:17
bencoh(aka fast&simple)15:17
CatButtssxiv is not far off15:22
CatButtsgpicview, couldn't find executable15:30
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CatButtsapparently, I am not allowed to make symlink to /media/mmc1/ in MyDocs17:36
CatButtsis it because the FAT32 FS?17:36
bencohMyDocs is fat17:36
CatButtsI have a half-arsed application that does not know what an SDCard is17:37
CatButts this fucker, right here17:38
bencohanyway, you might be able to get away with mount -o bind17:39
CatButtsso, how do I use mount -o bind17:43
CatButtsor rather, what is outcome17:43
KotCzarny think of it as overlay or junction17:43
bencohman mount; basically it transparently remounts an already mounted fs at another mountpoint17:43
KotCzarnybencoh, not remounts, but duplicates on different path17:44
CatButts>man: no manual entry for 'mount'17:44
bencohCatButts: on another unix system17:44
bencohKotCzarny: duplicate isn't a good phrasing either17:44
KotCzarnyyeah, it's only mounted once, but at two places17:45
KotCzarnyremount would suggest previous umount17:45
KotCzarnyhence my comment17:45
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CatButts>mount: can't find evertest in /etc/fstab17:45
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CatButtstee hee17:45
KotCzarnycatbutts: consider linux for dummies lecture :P17:46
CatButtstouch cat17:46
CatButtscat touch17:46
CatButts<chocobo13> unzip; strip; touch; grep; finger; gasp; mount; fsck; yes; more; yes; umount; sleep17:47
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CatButtsI don't see any -o option17:50
CatButtsthere is -O17:50
CatButtsmount /dev/mmc1 /media/mmc117:53
CatButtsthis would be what I have already17:54
CatButtswhen using the bind option, does the device or the media mount become first parameter?17:54
CatButtsah, it takes a directory17:56
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CatButtssudo mount -O bind /media/mmc1 /home/user/MyDocs/mmc118:01
CatButtsthere we go18:01
CatButtsthanks bencoh18:01
KotCzarnyyou can use any path as a source18:02
KotCzarnydoesnt have to be exact mount point18:02
CatButtslet's see how Storage Usage/Treesize likes the new mount point :P18:05
CatButtstreats it as 0byte file18:05
CatButtsI remember this feature working before18:08
CatButtswas it disabled, or is it served on a whitelist?18:08
DocScrutinizer05I recommend against mointing sth to /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 since /home/user/MyDocs is already a mountpoint itself18:09
DocScrutinizer05it "works" but has all sorts of caveats18:10
CatButtsyeah, none of the applications I care about work with PhoneME18:11
CatButtsso I can unmount and call it a day18:11
CatButtswell, at least I learned a bit more of linux console18:14
DocScrutinizer05if you really wanna learn about mount, see
DocScrutinizer05until then, think of bindmounts as a form of (sym)link that only lives in kernel data structures18:16
CatButtsa form of symlink, got it!18:23
CatButtsI lost you at kernel data structures :P18:23
CatButtsdoes it survive reboot?18:24
CatButtsI am guessing no18:24
bencohyou're guessing right18:25
bencohalthough you could add it to /etc/fstab18:25
bencoh(but I dont know when MyDocs is mounted, so this might lead to a race and might not be such a great idea)18:26
CatButtsI don't mind my quick fix not surviving a reboot18:31
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DocScrutinizer05bencoh: that's why I recommended to rather _not_ (bind)mount anything there19:08
DocScrutinizer05related:  alias uhls=':(){ echo `readlink -f $1`; mkdir /tmp/uh && mount --bind / /tmp/uh && pushd /tmp/uh && ls -lR `readlink -f $1` && popd && umount /tmp/uh && rmdir /tmp/uh; };:'19:10
DocScrutinizer05uh like UnHide19:12
DocScrutinizer05which might well be needed to actually access your /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 mount19:12
DocScrutinizer05when /home/user/MyDocs gets mounted later than /home/user/MyDocs/mmc119:12
siceloCatButts: phoneme *does* know how to use sd card just fine.  no need for any (bind)mounts19:15
sicelowhat application are you trying to run?19:17
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DocScrutinizer05what's phoneme?19:29
CatButtsit emulates a javaphone19:30
CatButtsit's one of the more decent emus19:31
siceloJ2ME :-)19:31
CatButtssorry, sicelo19:31
CatButtsexcept the version I have is dated 201219:32
CatButtsnot quite so decent19:32
DocScrutinizer05what's a javaphone?19:33
DocScrutinizer05not that it sounds like anything faintly useful for N90019:34
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CatButtsit's the older phones that run J2ME19:34
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, palmos is the second finest OS this bot knows about19:34
CatButtsI needed to copypaste this19:35
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siceloDocScrutinizer05: it's a J2ME emulator for running those old-school java applets19:40
siceloe.g. on nkia S40 phones19:41
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CatButts one of the few applications I cared about19:42
CatButtsthat, and opera mini19:42
CatButtsopera mini mod19:43
sicelothe one giving you problems is that 'vibe'?19:43
CatButtshmmm, I think I can output a log19:43
sicelowhat's nice/good about mini "mod" when compared to the plain one?19:43
CatButtsit's like a browser-centric OS19:44
CatButtsover-customisability, new browsing features, use heap or file storage for browser cache19:45
CatButtsdownload manager, ftp client, file browser, basic media player, text viewer and editor, hex editor19:46
bencohI still dont really understand why you'd run java-powered app on n90019:46
CatButtsI've got a few apps I liked on my java phones19:46
CatButtshell, maybe j2me keepass is more usable than n900 one!19:47
CatButtsand vibe19:47
CatButtsvibe is midi sequencer19:47
CatButtswith a bunch of mods I added19:47
CatButtsdoes n900 even have a midi seq?19:48
CatButtsin the repos?19:48
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CatButtsthe only decent drawing application on this happens to be J2SE one19:48
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CatButtsI resort to other platforms because what is available directly for the N900 is19:49
CatButtsit's meh19:49
CatButts*on this phone19:50
KotCzarnyCatButts: oscp can play midis19:52
CatButtsvibe can make them19:52
KotCzarnybut i dont think it has midi in the system19:53
DocScrutinizer05decent drawing application?19:54
CatButtssheepdrawing is the other one19:54
CatButtsmyPaint counts as 'half-arsed' port for me19:55
DocScrutinizer05half-arsed, eh?19:58
CatButtsthe GUI handles like it's meant for PC, not phone19:59
CatButtsfor myPaint19:59
KotCzarnythat's why things while generally compile and work unmodified for maemo, need porting20:00
CatButts this is simpler, compared to myPaint20:00
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CatButtsand with some diddling of the keymap, it's usable20:02
DocScrutinizer05well, "it's NOT a phone"20:02
CatButtsyeah, a standard phone would probably have no qwerty keyboard and would have shitty capacitive touchscreen :P20:03
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KotCzarnyyou are thinking of toyphone20:03
DocScrutinizer05actually N900 is a palmtop PC, Nokia calls the series "Nokia Internet Tablet"20:03
KotCzarnystandard phone would have buttons and would be capable of making and receiving phone calls20:04
CatButtssorry, my bad20:04
CatButtsbut even on standard phone I can run some neat applications20:04
CatButtsif its J2ME implementation wills it20:05
KotCzarnylike snake and minesweeper? :P20:05
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KotCzarnywhy dont you just start looking for linux replacements of those j2me apps?20:06
KotCzarnythey are usually pretty standard ideas implemented20:06
CatButtsthere's a J2ME compiler and IDE running on J2ME that no phone can properly run because it's not powerful enough :P20:06
CatButtswell, the linux replacement of KeePassX on the Maemo sucks :P20:07
KotCzarnynope, its just not ported20:07
CatButtsI'd have to learn new skills20:08
KotCzarnysure, that's what n900 is all about20:08
KotCzarnyopen source and all the perks of it20:08
* CatButts rolls on his lazy feline bumarse20:08
CatButtsor I could decompile J2ME things and port them to J2SE by hand and forever hate myself :P20:09
KotCzarnythen make a bounty and post on t.m.o20:09
KotCzarnyand let someone else do the dirty job20:09
CatButtsbounty means offering money, yes?20:10
KotCzarnyor other things or services20:10
CatButtscan I make a bounty for someone teaching me through first steps of weilding the Maemo SDK?20:11
CatButtsI'll wait my next salary and think about it :P20:12
CatButtsoh, curiosity20:13
CatButtsdoes the digitizer on the n900 output a Z axis?20:14
CatButtsaka pressure20:14
CatButtsNintendo DS did actually output that20:14
KotCzarnypressure no, but can detect your big grubby fingers getting grubbier on presses20:14
KotCzarnywhich is kinda similar20:15
CatButtsoh, so it detects contact area?20:15
KotCzarnyyou should read how resistive screens work20:15
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siceloCatButts: serious!?  ypaint is half-arsed port????20:22
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CatButtsyes, the gui/menus are a pain20:24
CatButtsthat appear suited for PC20:24
sicelo8mm sorry, but you're unbelievable! just look at your drawing app's screenshot - looks like a toy app20:24
infobotsicelo meant: I'm sorry, but you're unbelievable! just look at your drawing app's screenshot - looks like a toy app20:25
sicelojust learn the shortcuts. there's a reason why N900 has qwerty keyboard20:25
siceloi use only one j2me app now - a bible in my home language20:26
siceloused 2go as well before, but for some reason now it causes my n900 to reboot unexpectedly20:26
siceloyes. no idea why :-)20:27
KotCzarnyswaphell + watchdog?20:27
CatButtsdoes it make you feel better if I tell you it's a java applet, half-arsedly ported to desktop, then half-arsedly adapted to N900?20:27
sicelonot swap hell20:27
KotCzarnycant imagine any other reason20:27
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CatButtstherefore, it's quarter-arsedly, sicelo :P20:27
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siceloKotCzarny: not even  heavy cpu use. i wanted to turn on RD mode to do better debugging, but got lazy. 2go not a priority anyway - just that a couple of people use it20:28
siceloCatButts: "it" in your last messages means your drawing app, or mypaint?20:29
CatButtsmy drawing app20:29
sicelomidi sequencer we don't have on N900 (due to general MIDI issues with Linux anyway)20:31
sicelolook at Sunvox though20:31
CatButtsthat's pretty good20:32
CatButtsalbeit, a bit heavy on the poor CPU20:32
CatButtshave yet to get used to its UI20:33
CatButtshmmm, I wonder if Java Embedded has built-in midi playback20:33
CatButtsJ2SE for desktop certainly has20:33
siceloprolly not20:33
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KotCzarnybut on pc you can stuff software renderer to alsa to act as a sequencer20:34
CatButtsI have this one replayer for some obscure tracked music format lying around, maybe I can coax myself to make a music tool around it20:37
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CatButtsJ2SE embedded does have built in midi player20:49
CatButtsit's called Gervil20:49
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CatButtsno wait20:54
CatButtsGervil is part of OpenJDK20:54
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siceloyou just want a midi player? :-/21:22
sicelothen just get oscp by all means!21:22
siceloyes :-)21:22
CatButts shameless self promotion :P21:23
CatButtswhat does oscp use for tracked music?21:24
CatButtslibmodplug or libopenmpt?21:24
CatButtsthe latter being the successor of the former21:24
CatButtsinb4 neither21:24
KotCzarnyfor plain mods21:24
infobothmm... oscp is
KotCzarnyread that page21:25
CatButtss3m xm mod it21:25
KotCzarnyand grab the version from extras-devel21:25
KotCzarnybecause the one in extras is ancient21:25
CatButtsand what do you use for midi?21:26
KotCzarnyyou will have to add sound files too, freepats will suffice tho21:26
CatButtsoooooh, softsynth21:26
KotCzarnywildmidi is cpu friendly21:27
CatButtswait, it says softsynth at top of the page21:27
CatButtsdoes it actually have synthesized patches?21:27
CatButtsor is it ye olde wave player21:27
KotCzarnyyou know that midi uses samples? even in keyboards?21:28
CatButtsnot necesarely21:28
CatButtsmidi is set of commands21:28
KotCzarnymany sound banks in keyboards are sampled for quality21:28
KotCzarnyand those cheaper ones are synths21:28
KotCzarnybut nothing stops you from using synth bank21:29
CatButtsit's up to the midi device/software to decide what to do with the commands21:29
KotCzarnyyou can easily convert and use any sf2 sound bank21:29
KotCzarnybut keep in mind n900 is a bit short on mem, so dont go overboard with 300MB sound bank :P21:30
CatButtsoscp comes with bank prepackaged?21:31
CatButtsah, my job there21:31
KotCzarnyfor size reasons and because freepats is in repo21:31
KotCzarnybut install freepats first if you want it to autodetect21:31
KotCzarnyotherwise you will have to specify location of the files21:32
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* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... bookmark-news... slashdot, cnn22:09
infobotDocScrutinizer05: aw, gee22:10
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CatButtsjava's built in midi softsynth is too much for poor n900 :P22:53
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