IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2017-11-10

*** milhouse has joined #maemo00:02
*** milhouse has quit IRC00:02
*** milhouse has joined #maemo00:02
*** milhouse is now known as Milhouse00:03
*** shentey has quit IRC00:03
*** EgS has joined #maemo00:16
*** EgS has joined #maemo00:17
*** pkill9 has quit IRC00:18
*** pkill9 has joined #maemo00:22
*** hurrian has joined #maemo01:11
*** hurrian_ has quit IRC01:12
*** hurrian_ has joined #maemo01:25
*** hurrian has quit IRC01:26
*** Kabouik- has joined #maemo01:37
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC01:40
*** qwazix has quit IRC01:55
*** florian has quit IRC02:26
*** qwazix has joined #maemo02:35
*** Natch has quit IRC03:15
*** pkill9 has quit IRC03:20
*** pkill9 has joined #maemo03:21
*** Natch has joined #maemo03:27
*** Tony` has joined #maemo03:29
*** Tony` has left #maemo03:31
*** dafox has quit IRC03:38
*** pkill9 has quit IRC03:56
*** Kabouik- has quit IRC04:06
*** auenf has quit IRC05:27
*** auenfx8 has joined #maemo05:27
*** auenf has joined #maemo05:27
*** auenfx8 has quit IRC05:27
*** infobot has quit IRC05:30
*** spiiroin has quit IRC05:55
*** spiiroin has joined #maemo05:56
*** spiiroin has quit IRC07:44
*** spiiroin has joined #maemo08:34
*** ecloud_wfh is now known as ecloud09:39
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:28
*** florian has joined #maemo10:40
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo10:48
*** jskarvad has joined #maemo11:23
*** N-Mi has quit IRC11:29
*** Vajb has quit IRC11:45
*** luke-jr has quit IRC11:55
*** lukedashjr has joined #maemo11:55
*** lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr11:59
*** lukedashjr has joined #maemo12:05
*** Vajb has joined #maemo12:07
*** luke-jr has quit IRC12:08
*** lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr12:09
*** eMHa has quit IRC12:53
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo12:57
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo12:57
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo12:57
*** eMHa has joined #maemo13:23
*** LauRoman has quit IRC13:42
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo13:58
*** spiiroin has quit IRC14:16
*** spiiroin has joined #maemo14:29
*** pkill9 has joined #maemo15:08
*** pkill9 has quit IRC16:37
*** pkill9 has joined #maemo16:37
*** louis_ has joined #maemo16:53
*** auenfx8 has joined #maemo17:27
*** auenf has quit IRC17:27
*** auenfx8 has quit IRC17:30
*** auenf has joined #maemo17:30
*** infobot has joined #maemo17:56
*** silviof1 is now known as silviof18:08
*** florian_kc has quit IRC18:30
*** Pali has joined #maemo18:37
*** louis_ has quit IRC19:00
*** louis_ has joined #maemo19:01
*** pagurus has joined #maemo19:04
*** Kabouik has quit IRC19:04
*** pagurus` has quit IRC19:05
*** louis_ has quit IRC19:14
*** louis_ has joined #maemo19:22
*** eMHa has quit IRC19:33
*** pkill9 has quit IRC19:35
*** pkill9 has joined #maemo19:40
*** Kabouik- has joined #maemo19:44
*** geaaru has quit IRC19:46
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo19:53
*** florian_kc has quit IRC20:35
*** eMHa has joined #maemo20:42
*** cyteen has quit IRC20:48
*** N-Mi has quit IRC20:59
*** sicelo has joined #maemo21:05
*** silviof has quit IRC21:11
*** silviof has joined #maemo21:11
*** cyteen has joined #maemo21:16
*** louis_ has quit IRC21:54
*** tmp_512 has joined #maemo21:56
*** tmp_512 has quit IRC22:05
atkI have a used n900, what should I do with it first?22:06
CatButtsprobably update to latest official firmware22:06
CatButtsand install community something something22:06
opt1musatk: and sand off the prongs on the charging cable you intend to use with it22:08
opt1musthe two little spring loaded prongs are sometimes quite proud and you risk breaking the charging port of the board22:09
atkI actually have already been using a N900 for a year I just want to get a clean N900 so I can move my current N900 stuff onto it because my current N900 has a dead keyboard22:09
atkand I've already soldered down the charging port of my current one... that's something I need to do for the new one22:09
atkand remove the shitty RTC battery22:09
atkwhoops - I think I just accidentally murdered a small spider22:10
opt1musI got some polar cell batteries, they're working quite well22:10
atkbut yes, the thing I was specifically interested in is how do I flash these things back to "stock"22:10
atkyes, I have a polarcell in my current n900 and it was a great purchase22:10
atkI think I might get another one for when I forget to charge the phone for a few days and it dies.22:11
opt1musI bought two and an external charger22:11
atkyes, the external charger is a must22:11
CatButtshey guise, unrelated question22:11
atkVajb: joerg has already pointed me towards that one, I'm going to read it in a second22:12
CatButtsNiMh battery leak produces base Ph, yes?22:12
atkVajb: but he told me to ask here anyway22:12
CatButtsand not acid22:12
atkCatButts: "NiMH cells have an alkaline (basic) electrolyte..." from wikipedia22:14
atkso probably yes22:14
CatButtsah, good22:14
CatButtsI am cleaning gunk from unrelated device with vinegar22:14
KotCzarnyatk: you probably know about:22:16
infobotrumour has it, maemo-flashing is, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing22:16
infobotwell, cssu is, or (Community Seamless Software Update)22:16
DocScrutinizer05atk: do NPT sand off anything on USB plugs!22:18
DocScrutinizer05aah, you coverd that already22:19
atkI'll just solder the thing down22:21
atkI have enough solder to cover the surface of the earth probably...22:21
infobotmethinks usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt22:22
CatButtscan solder and duct tape solve lovelife?22:22
CatButtsSo what's a quick list of things to do with a 'new' n900? I'll start22:23
CatButts1. be a creep and look through previous owner's stuff22:23
CatButts2. format and flash latest firmware22:24
CatButts3. CSSU22:24
CatButts4. sand them cables22:24
atkDocScrutinizer05: so basically, expose some copper on the ground plane next to the USB connector and then blob the fuck out of it22:24
atkgot it :D22:24
CatButts5. ????????22:24
CatButts5. Sturdy the fuck out of m-usb female22:24
CatButts6. ????????22:25
*** troulouliou_div2 has joined #maemo22:26
*** TheKit has joined #maemo22:26
atkthe libgles1 and libgles2 in the repos - that's from the SGX SDK?22:26
MaxdamantusInstall u-boot, just in case you still lose the USB port22:27
DocScrutinizer05I guess so, yes22:28
DocScrutinizer05well, actually from Nokia, though I guess they also used that SDL to produce them22:29
atkspider update: the spider is alive22:29
DocScrutinizer05\o/ :-D22:29
CatButtswhat's u-boot22:29
infobotit has been said that u-boot is
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if "keep a jam jar in freezer, to catch spiders in it" would qualify for a patent22:30
atkdescriptions of wheels have qualified for patents before22:31
atkso why not22:31
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo u-boot22:31
infobotDocScrutinizer05: there's no such factoid as u-boot22:31
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo #maemo u-boot22:31
infobot#maemo u-boot -- created by DocScrutinizer51 <~lagrange@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Mon Oct 29 12:36:32 2012 (1838 days); it has been requested 5 times, last by Maxdamantus, 1m 37s ago.22:31
DocScrutinizer05aaah that's why22:31
CatButtsspeaking of patents22:33
DocScrutinizer05atk: the -26 centigrade nicely slow down spiders when you catch them by placing the jar over them on the wall. No escaping when getting the jar off the wall, after 20s22:33
atkI just pick them up with my hands22:34
atkit's easier22:34
* Maxdamantus usually just leaves them be.22:36
* Maxdamantus will occasionally get rid of webs though.22:37
*** troulouliou_div2 has quit IRC22:39
atkDocScrutinizer05: the md5sums don't match with any of the files provided by the SDK so I presume either they're from an older SDK version or they're custom nokia ones22:39
*** Venemo has joined #maemo22:40
DocScrutinizer05the SDK aiui provides source code interface stubs for including a binary blob into them and provide that with an ABI - so the files in the SDL would never show up unmodified on the target22:42
DocScrutinizer05SDK even22:43
atkthe SDK also provides the GLES libs22:44
DocScrutinizer05and yeah, quite possibly Nokia had better docs for the PowerVR so they could even patch the blobs22:45
atkhmm, indeed22:45
atkwell, when I get this compiling against mainline I'll try all manner of combinations22:45
DocScrutinizer05also note that the latest SDK says "hardfloat" or somesuch, while maemo is softfp22:46
atkhmm, interesting22:46
atkdoes the n900 cpu support hardfloat?22:47
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure how much it would matter when the PVR libs use hardfp22:47
DocScrutinizer05err yes22:47
atkit would probably make them a bit faster22:47
DocScrutinizer05even softfp in the end uses hardware "float coprocessor", just the parameter passing is via stack and a lib instead of coproc registers and direct function calls22:48
CatButtsoh I have been reminded22:49
DocScrutinizer05the lib then calls the float coproc as well on all architectures that support it22:49
CatButtsn900 CPU and float22:49
CatButtsvs integer22:49
MaxdamantusI don't think armel would accurately be described as softfp.22:49
CatButtson a nintendo DS, ou would go for integer22:49
Maxdamantussoftfp is something you can enable when compiling something, where the compiler will use software implementation of floating point operations.22:50
CatButtsthat's probably slow22:50
DocScrutinizer05indeed using reals/floats for GFX is ... *MEH!*, 32 or even 64bit integers should be absolutely sufficient and way faster22:51
CatButtscompared to programming straight up int22:51
MaxdamantusIndeed, but it might be required for portability.22:51
CatButtsso, n900's CPU cannot do float, yes?22:51
MaxdamantusIf you're targeting a system that doesn't have any floating point operations, it might be better to just implement suitable fixed-point arithmetic.22:51
DocScrutinizer05it can22:51
MaxdamantusYes, N900 does both 32-bit and 64-bit floats.22:52
DocScrutinizer05also see
DocScrutinizer05vfp and vfpv322:57
DocScrutinizer05and neon on top22:57
CatButts>JazelleĀ® RCT Execution Environment Architecture22:57
CatButtsoh hey, it's the NDA proprietary ARM java doohickey thing22:58
CatButtstypically used for accelerating J2ME22:58
DocScrutinizer05total crap, I heard22:58
DocScrutinizer05slower than CPU to run java22:58
CatButtsI am familiar with it from Sony Erricsson phones22:59
MaxdamantusI imagine the advantage would be potential power saving in not having to compile short-lived code.22:59
CatButtsj2me apps run faster23:00
*** jskarvad has quit IRC23:00
MaxdamantusFaster specifically when running code in the interpreted mode?23:01
CatButtsfaster when running intensive code that does stuff like render realtime audio23:02
MaxdamantusI'm not familiar with the ARM Java stuff, but I would imagine it would potentially be faster before the JIT actually compiles the code.23:03
CatButtsthere's no api for realtime audio, so it's a hack23:03
MaxdamantusRight, if it's something intensive, the JIT should compile it into native code anyway.23:03
Maxdamantuson a normal system, the threshold usually has to do with 10k iterations.23:03
Maxdamantusso eg, once a method has been called 10k times, it will probably be compiled to native code.23:04
DocScrutinizer05well, I guess it depends on the SoC, no?23:04
Maxdamantusbefore that, it will just be interpreted .. so there'll be a while loop that looks something like: while(i = get_next_instruction()) run_instruction(i);23:04
MaxdamantusIf you could replace that while loop with something equivalent in the CPU, that seems like a potential advantage.23:05
DocScrutinizer05I've been told that OMAP3530 is faster on genuine ARM CPU than on Jazelle with running java23:05
MaxdamantusI imagine the better way to make things faster is to just put compiled code onto persistable storage.23:11
Maxdamantusie, use actual binaries with native code in them.23:11
Maxdamantuswhich is what normally happens when your programs are written in C/C++/Rust/Go/whatever23:11
Maxdamantusiirc JDK9 has some support for AOT compilation too.23:14
MaxdamantusSo you can compile a .so that you provide to the VM alongside your classes.23:14
*** geaaru has joined #maemo23:19
*** florian has quit IRC23:33
*** florian has joined #maemo23:34
opt1musDocScrutinizer05: I don't see the issue with modifying a microUSB male in such a way, they're dirt cheap23:55
opt1musif you leave them as is then you can run the risk of pulling at the USB port on the N900 too much23:56
opt1muswhich would you rather?23:56
opt1musa 2 bit cable, or bugger up a rare phone23:57
DocScrutinizer05a) the plugs need a 100 mating cycles then they get softer  b) sanding/filing causes nasty abrassive dust and surfaces that both can damage the receptacle when plugging that sanded plug  c) pulling the plug never caused any hard, it's bending the plug while pulling it that does23:58
DocScrutinizer05s/any hard/any harm/23:59
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: a) the plugs need a 100 mating cycles then they get softer  b) sanding/filing causes nasty abrassive dust and surfaces that both can damage the receptacle when plugging that sanded plug  c) pulling the plug never caused any harm, it's bending the plug whi...23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!