| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't you do already? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| rhombus | install BM? | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 00:00 |
| rhombus | no :/ | 00:00 |
| rhombus | I didn't think I needed it just now | 00:00 |
| rhombus | start HAM | 00:01 |
| rhombus | started HAM | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if not, then yes. start up phone, and click the link in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/ | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure BM installs cleanly via HAM | 00:02 |
| rhombus | oh | 00:02 |
| rhombus | ok | 00:02 |
| rhombus | so I do it via the browser then | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gas dependency issues from fuckedup catalogs | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | has* | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/ | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got a uSD? | 00:03 |
| rhombus | yes | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | easier to save the BM file to uSD | 00:04 |
| rhombus | huh? Server not found error? | 00:04 |
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| rhombus | now it works, hang on | 00:05 |
| rhombus | ok, I clicked BM.install and now suddenly HAM is in the foreground | 00:06 |
| rhombus | is that normal? | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile, you may want to use the manager of choice on your gentoo to find and install libusb-0.1.so | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 32 bit!! | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:06 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: Doesn't lazyflasher include a library? | 00:07 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: There's a libusb lib in the directory | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it does, but might not work ion your system. It's a *really nasty* bitch | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | botch too | 00:07 |
| rhombus | :/ | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you may try, but no guarantee | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | defer it! | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err postpone | 00:08 |
| rhombus | postpone? | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | later | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe it works | 00:08 |
| rhombus | the libusb update, you mean? | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:09 |
| rhombus | ah, ok | 00:09 |
| rhombus | BM is downloading | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 00:09 |
| rhombus | "installing" | 00:09 |
| rhombus | A zillion WARNING!s | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it installed, you reboot the phone with kbd slider opened | 00:09 |
| rhombus | YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ignore and nod off | 00:10 |
| rhombus | ooh, set new root password | 00:10 |
| rhombus | I didn't know I had an old root password | 00:10 |
| rhombus | is it asking me for the system root password? | 00:11 |
| rhombus | what has that got to do with BM? | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly installs sshd | 00:11 |
| rhombus | now I see a giant README | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BM has a virtual machine of sorts, with useful tools like ssh and whatnot | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's way more than just a backup tool | 00:13 |
| rhombus | ok, so I turned off the phone | 00:13 |
| rhombus | slider is open | 00:13 |
| rhombus | now I wait 20-30 s | 00:13 |
| rhombus | and restart | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:13 |
| rhombus | with slider open | 00:13 |
| rhombus | "Loading BOOT MENU" | 00:13 |
| rhombus | wow | 00:13 |
| rhombus | totally retro | 00:13 |
| rhombus | this is like the screen on a 286 | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it actually is, also technically | 00:14 |
| rhombus | really!? | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | save all to uSD, no compression | 00:15 |
| rhombus | so now I choose option b, right? "Create a backup" | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it writes to framebuffer char by char using a tool to draw chars there | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sounds good | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might want to attach USB charger if at hand | 00:16 |
| rhombus | what? it doesn't see my µSD! | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's weird | 00:16 |
| rhombus | m) Backup to internal eMMC, MyDocs | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you closed battery lif? | 00:16 |
| rhombus | ah... no :( | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lod* | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn!!!! | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LID | 00:16 |
| rhombus | does that matter? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sire :-) | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uSd gets umounted on battery lid open | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | close lid and reboot | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, afaik no way to restart bootmenu | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you may try though if you find a key for it | 00:18 |
| rhombus | and here I thought I was being clever | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N900 has lots of "funny" surprising details like that | 00:19 |
| sicelo | it can reboot though (BM) | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 00:20 |
| rhombus | I rebooted | 00:20 |
| rhombus | it was very fast | 00:20 |
| rhombus | I noticed the arrow keys are backwards | 00:20 |
| rhombus | ok, I... | 00:20 |
| rhombus | I think I did the backup | 00:20 |
| rhombus | is it that fast? | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 00:20 |
| rhombus | I just pressed s, and now I have the same screen again | 00:20 |
| rhombus | ah, ok | 00:21 |
| rhombus | now it's running | 00:21 |
| rhombus | Guys, this is amazing | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this will take a while | 00:21 |
| rhombus | I got this phone for 35 euros and I'm really starting to love it | 00:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | iir ca 10 minutes | 00:21 |
| rhombus | :( | 00:21 |
| rhombus | you probably want to go to bed | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah, I wish I could | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile, test lazyflashing: run flash-it-all.sh | 00:23 |
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| rhombus | I ran it | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it will tell you if the lob works or not | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lib | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | verbatim | 00:23 |
| rhombus | hang on, I'll pastebin the output | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir_v2/flash-it-all.sh | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, old crap | 00:25 |
| rhombus | https://pastebin.ca/3888082 | 00:25 |
| rhombus | backup completed successfully | 00:25 |
| rhombus | yay | 00:25 |
| rhombus | now what? | 00:25 |
| * rhombus is a question machine | 00:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is fine | 00:26 |
| rhombus | Do I reboot the phone normally now? | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now you wait until your backup finished, then you ... follow the instructions | 00:27 |
| rhombus | which ones? In backup menu? | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> please remove battery from N900, then plug N900 to a primary (non-hub) USB jack of this PC. Then insert battery which should result in this script continuing... << | 00:27 |
| rhombus | Oh, those | 00:27 |
| rhombus | ok, so the output I pastebinned looked ok? | 00:28 |
| rhombus | Is it safe to just try this? The phone is off, I've removed the battery, and the USB cable is connected | 00:29 |
| rhombus | There are errors like: modprobe: FATAL: Module cdc_phonet not found. | 00:29 |
| rhombus | checksum errors... | 00:29 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: Ok, I set LANG=C and the integrity checks succeeded | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ignore all that, the pasted log is 100% fine | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #38 image files found and checked OK for integrity. | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #17 no local file RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or checksum incorrect. Trying to fetch... | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #20 resuming... | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #23 RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: OK | 00:34 |
| rhombus | ah, ok | 00:34 |
| rhombus | So now I just insert the battery | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, after plugging it to USB | 00:34 |
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| rhombus | shit is happening | 00:35 |
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| rhombus | Erasing CMT - scary | 00:36 |
| rhombus | Programming CMT - hopeful | 00:36 |
| jonwil | It may seem scary but its perfectly safe | 00:36 |
| jonwil | I did a flash yesterday on my own N900 and it worked just fine | 00:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 is rather fond of lazyflashing ;-P | 00:37 | |
| rhombus | Image(s) flashed successfully in 29.262 s (8746 kB/s)! | 00:37 |
| rhombus | HOORAY | 00:37 |
| rhombus | initializing system | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually almost proud of it | 00:38 |
| rhombus | yellow LED | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | follow the instructions ;-) | 00:39 |
| rhombus | so far only Blinkenlights | 00:39 |
| jonwil | Its pretty much impossible to kill a N900 through software alone | 00:39 |
| rhombus | My phone has turned into KITT | 00:39 |
| rhombus | jonwil: sounds like smart design to me | 00:39 |
| jonwil | If its doing the scrolling dots, that's a good thing | 00:39 |
| rhombus | Music! | 00:40 |
| rhombus | And the pedophile is back! | 00:40 |
| jonwil | Yeah it should play the Nokia hands animation | 00:40 |
| rhombus | "Knight Rider" | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, now proceed as tersely listed in first few lines of ~jrtools | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just first let it boot all the way to desktop | 00:41 |
| rhombus | whoops, I pressed First Steps | 00:41 |
| rhombus | :/ | 00:41 |
| rhombus | ~jrtools | 00:41 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 00:41 |
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| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: So now I open the internal browser and go to the recommended.install URL? | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/recommended.install and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in CSSU first thing recommended is to install VM (again :-D ) | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BM* | 00:43 |
| rhombus | right | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't do "Additional Repositories" for now! | 00:44 |
| rhombus | ok | 00:44 |
| rhombus | ok, it's starting HAM | 00:45 |
| rhombus | I fat fingered stop, but I don't think it took | 00:46 |
| rhombus | how do I know it worked? | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check catalogs | 00:46 |
| rhombus | I see the HAM main screen again | 00:46 |
| rhombus | what should I see? | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | disable the Nokia & OVI broken ones | 00:47 |
| rhombus | I'm trying again | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check that replacements (muarf) are in place | 00:47 |
| rhombus | ok | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | delete duplicate catalogs | 00:47 |
| rhombus | ok, no duplicates | 00:48 |
| rhombus | old Nokia cats deactivated | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | run "update catalogs" OWTTE from menu | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though it should do that automatically as soon as you leave the catalogs dialog | 00:49 |
| rhombus | yes | 00:49 |
| rhombus | This CSSU install seems more involved, do I have to do this now? | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's not really involved, just exact instructions | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually it's just two clicks | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pus BM install | 00:50 |
| rhombus | ok | 00:50 |
| rhombus | I'm installing BM again | 00:50 |
| rhombus | "installation being prepared. please wait" | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw thanks for testing and verifying libusb botch working on gentoo :-D | 00:52 |
| rhombus | No worries :P | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gave me quite a few headaches pondering if I really should try such terrible hack at all | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, seems to work | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in CSSU don't miss on the second step! | 00:54 |
| rhombus | this seems slower than the last time | 00:54 |
| rhombus | I'm still installing BM | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's clearly explained in instructions, just follow those verbatim | 00:54 |
| rhombus | ok | 00:54 |
| rhombus | ok, progress bar movement | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest CSSU-testing | 00:55 |
| rhombus | is that a catalog? | 00:55 |
| rhombus | or a version of CSSU? | 00:56 |
| rhombus | oh, I get it | 00:56 |
| rhombus | sorry | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, one of two obe-click options on CSSU webpage | 00:56 |
| rhombus | ok, BM installed | 00:56 |
| rhombus | do I have to do another backup now? | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really | 00:56 |
| rhombus | what a relief | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should do a backup after you restored the standard backup and rootsh etc | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reflashing rootfs and installing BM then restoring a backup is way easier than the whole repo fixing and rootsh installation and whatnot else | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in case you need it to recover a fsckup device | 00:59 |
| rhombus | ok | 00:59 |
| rhombus | right | 00:59 |
| rhombus | will my GPS work after all this is done? | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when you insert a SIM, which helps a lot with GPS | 00:59 |
| rhombus | Why is that? | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~gsm-agps | 01:00 |
| infobot | RRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP | 01:00 |
| rhombus | ah, right, I'd heard about that | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and | 01:00 |
| rhombus | but that's not really GPS :) | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~u-tdoa | 01:00 |
| infobot | rumour has it, u-tdoa is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA | 01:00 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: ok, where is the Community SSU icon? | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, part of RRLP is a control layer service similar to SUPL | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: hm? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for CSSU step2 or for starting CSSU? | 01:02 |
| rhombus | Once this is completed, close HAM and go into the applications menu. Tap the Community SSU icon. | 01:02 |
| rhombus | Step 7 :) | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah 2 aja 7 | 01:02 |
| rhombus | Is the app menu where all the apps are? :) | 01:03 |
| rhombus | I don't see a Community SSU icon | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it should be there in applications menu. *sometimes* the system doesn't update the menu, then ist's probably easiest to reboot. Though... I didn't do CSSU install since ages, so maybe we should ask Pali | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: does CSSU now autstart "step 7: Once this is completed, close HAM and go into the applications menu. Tap the Community SSU icon. "? | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: you're aware you can scroll the app menu? | 01:05 |
| Pali | CSSU should do it, but do not know if stable, testing or only devel | 01:05 |
| rhombus | yes | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: so we urgentrly need to fix the instructions | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no? | 01:06 |
| rhombus | So should I reboot? | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I'm at the limit of my solid knowledge here | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: how would user check if step-7 got accomlished? | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: did HAM install a lot of package updates already? | 01:08 |
| rhombus | Didn't seem like it | 01:08 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: how can I check? | 01:09 |
| jonwil | You can check in settings app | 01:09 |
| jonwil | If CSSU is installed there will be a new icon for "about CSSU" | 01:09 |
| jonwil | or something similar | 01:09 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: 7. Once this is completed, close HAM and you should see in few seconds new terminal window. If not tap the Community SSU icon in the application menu. In terminal window will run through a series of scripts to ensure the community repository are set up. | 01:09 |
| jonwil | Don't have my N900 next to me to check exactly what its called | 01:09 |
| rhombus | jonwil: nope, don't see it. In which section would it be? | 01:10 |
| jonwil | Sounds like you dont have CSSU yet | 01:10 |
| jonwil | and need to go open the icon | 01:10 |
| rhombus | Pali: DocScrutinizer05 ok, the clearly something didn't work here | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: sounds good | 01:10 |
| rhombus | jonwil: there is no icon | 01:10 |
| rhombus | anywhere | 01:10 |
| jonwil | No "Community SSU Enabler" icon in app list? | 01:11 |
| jonwil | even when you scroll down? | 01:11 |
| jonwil | That seems strange | 01:11 |
| rhombus | jonwil: no | 01:11 |
| Pali | do you have installed needed package? | 01:11 |
| Pali | that cssu enabler package | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ^^^ - reboot? | 01:11 |
| rhombus | I followed Step 5 in the instructions, HAM started, it did some stuff, then it was done and I closed HAM as per the instructions | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: he followed instructions on CSSU | 01:11 |
| Pali | reboot is needed after everything is installed, reboot is not needed between 6 and 7 step | 01:11 |
| jonwil | rhombus: Do you see a yellow exclamation mark in the status menu at the top of the screen? | 01:12 |
| Pali | so try reboot and then open HAM and check for updates | 01:12 |
| Pali | ... and wait and wait | 01:12 |
| Pali | sometimes also wait for 20 minutes... | 01:12 |
| Pali | until update check for update procedure finish | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we already established that :-) | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will change with speedyham :-) | 01:13 |
| rhombus | Is this something I can proceed with tomorrow? | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather suggest to finish it now | 01:13 |
| rhombus | jonwil: no, no yellow exclamation mark | 01:13 |
| jonwil | Ok. | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a very messy state right now | 01:13 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: 20 min is a long time | 01:13 |
| rhombus | ok | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it didn't take 20 min for you | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just the catalog updates | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in HAM | 01:14 |
| rhombus | rebooting | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: my guess is: it tried automatic step7, failed, and thus didn't run postinst that has hildon-appicons-update or whatever the name | 01:15 |
| Pali | then there must be icon in menu | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, after hildon home(?) updated its cache | 01:16 |
| Pali | icon in menu is missing only if: 1) enabler package is not installed or 2) cssu metapackage is installed (correctly with all dependences) | 01:16 |
| Pali | if 1) is truth, then install CSSU again via wiki page | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's that friggin cacje, so what you see isn't always what's installed | 01:16 |
| Pali | if 2) is truth then in settings dialog in about cssu must be cssu version string | 01:17 |
| rhombus | ok, rebooted, started HAM and checking for updates | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check for CSSU enabler icon! | 01:17 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: where? | 01:18 |
| Pali | in menu | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in app menu | 01:18 |
| rhombus | I did, there was nothing there | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FFS | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | somebody fucked up CSSU enabler | 01:18 |
| rhombus | "No updates available" | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ^^^ how to fix that now? | 01:19 |
| Pali | install CSSU again | 01:19 |
| Pali | via wiki page | 01:19 |
| Pali | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 01:19 |
| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1536914#post1536914 | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: unrelated, no? | 01:20 |
| jonwil | What do you mean unrelated? | 01:20 |
| rhombus | now the wiki page won't load | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is this helping rhombus to get CSSU installed | 01:21 |
| jonwil | No | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: loads fine gere | 01:21 |
| rhombus | It loads fine on my PC, it does not load on my N900 | 01:22 |
| rhombus | and I have an active WLAN connection | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | here* - I hope it's not a problem with maemo system | 01:22 |
| Pali | sometimes browser stuck | 01:22 |
| Pali | close and open it again | 01:22 |
| Pali | or maybe wifi connection is a problem? | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: do other arbitrary sites load? | 01:22 |
| Pali | n900 has only 2.4GHz b/g wifi | 01:23 |
| rhombus | closing the browser | 01:23 |
| rhombus | restarted browser -- now it loads | 01:23 |
| rhombus | man, this is flaky | 01:23 |
| Pali | but today is more common 2.4GHz n or 5GHz | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: you're unmidst a massive system reconfiguration | 01:24 |
| rhombus | went to testing link, HAM is starting | 01:24 |
| Pali | so sometimes is hard to debug problems with wifi, which is working fine on 802.11n or 5GHz, but on on 802.11g on 2.4GHz | 01:24 |
| rhombus | progress bar "preparing installation" | 01:24 |
| rhombus | ... it did the same thing | 01:24 |
| Pali | what exactly? | 01:24 |
| rhombus | zoomed through three progress bars, now I see the HAM main screen and nothing is happening | 01:25 |
| Pali | wait | 01:25 |
| Pali | ham is sometimes slow and need to wait 5 minutes | 01:25 |
| Pali | once you clicked on install icon on WIKI page | 01:25 |
| Pali | you should get info from HAM that you are going to install 3rd package | 01:26 |
| rhombus | Pali: but it's not doing anything anymore... it shows me the main screen and is doing nothing | 01:26 |
| Pali | and you need to click on some accept button | 01:26 |
| rhombus | no and no | 01:26 |
| rhombus | There is no accept button, no query screen, nothing | 01:26 |
| rhombus | just the standard three HAM icons | 01:26 |
| Pali | so wait in ham screen | 01:26 |
| rhombus | ok | 01:26 |
| Pali | it is doing some background task | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we *need* ntifications there | 01:27 |
| Pali | I saw ham very slow and once I waited 20 minutes | 01:27 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: it would be helpful | 01:27 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: we can deliver update for HAM just in CSSU | 01:27 |
| Pali | so notification there would be after installing CSSU... | 01:27 |
| Pali | but that is too late | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, wrap them around HAM | 01:27 |
| rhombus | If there's no feedback, how is the user supposed to know whether the process is done or not? | 01:27 |
| Pali | blame Nokia :-( | 01:27 |
| rhombus | ok -- finally! Now I get the install screen! | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | open the notifier before starting HAM | 01:28 |
| Pali | freemangordon, already fixed that slow HAM... and update is part of CSSU | 01:28 |
| rhombus | 1 program successfully installed | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GOOD! | 01:28 |
| rhombus | checking updates | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait | 01:28 |
| jonwil | So yeah we need to figure out who has access to CSSU-devel and CSSU-testing and figure out a way forward (I can do the work to upload things for it but we need whoever has all the needed access to make decisions about what should happen) | 01:29 |
| Pali | wait until HAM finished everything and after that close it | 01:29 |
| jonwil | I have no idea who has access to CSSU-devel and CSSU-testing | 01:29 |
| Pali | jonwil: that is question for merlin1991 | 01:29 |
| jonwil | Ok. | 01:29 |
| Pali | he is admin of cssu | 01:30 |
| Pali | and iirc has all rights for cssu repos | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 01:30 |
| rhombus | ok, now I see the HAM main screen AND I have a flashing yellow exclamation mark in the status bar | 01:32 |
| rhombus | Can I close HAM now? | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ^^^ | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: chack app menu | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't close HAM | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yet | 01:33 |
| Pali | check if you have cssu icon in menu | 01:33 |
| rhombus | Yes, I see it | 01:33 |
| Pali | if you have it, then close HAm and open that icon | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 01:33 |
| rhombus | What's the yellow exclamation mark about? | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pending update | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 01:33 |
| rhombus | Opened enabler | 01:34 |
| rhombus | shit is now happening | 01:34 |
| rhombus | holy shit | 01:34 |
| rhombus | serious shit | 01:34 |
| rhombus | lots of shit | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aka "The Real Thing" :-) | 01:34 |
| rhombus | and now it's waiting for headers, oh my god! | 01:34 |
| Pali | it is just normal apt-get update | 01:35 |
| rhombus | 94%... come on come on come on come on | 01:35 |
| Pali | you have not seen debian yet? | 01:35 |
| rhombus | what is this apt-get | 01:35 |
| rhombus | I last tried Debian in 1999 | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the real installer | 01:35 |
| rhombus | that was enough | 01:35 |
| Pali | ~apt | 01:35 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, apt is a stuild bot, said by Cotulla | 01:35 |
| Pali | ~apt-get | 01:36 |
| infobot | rumour has it, apt-get is the best thing the world ever had it's highly addictive and much different than dselect, it's a womans desire, ribbed for her pleasure, a superb text-adventure for tarzeau, now with Super Cow Powers, the kdeinit of package managers, overrated and overused, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200201/msg01699.html, or apt-get install synaptic for a gui client, or the shiznit, or see apt-cache, or ask me ... | 01:36 |
| Pali | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(Debian) | 01:36 |
| rhombus | sorry, for a Gentoo user for 15 years, that rings hollow | 01:36 |
| rhombus | more shit is happening | 01:36 |
| rhombus | HAM is loading again | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 01:37 |
| Pali | yes, HAM is now started again and would update rest of system | 01:37 |
| rhombus | churning | 01:37 |
| rhombus | And this will take 47 min, I take it? | 01:37 |
| Pali | so just wait until it show you screen for installing/updating packages | 01:37 |
| jonwil | How long it takes depends on (among other things) the download time to download everything it needs to pull | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wich in turn depends on your internet | 01:38 |
| Pali | and number of all packages in all Maemo repositories... | 01:38 |
| rhombus | is it safe to plug the phone in to charge it? The battery is very low | 01:38 |
| Pali | yes | 01:38 |
| Pali | plug charger | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely | 01:38 |
| jonwil | Yes its safe to plug it into the wall charger while its flashing | 01:38 |
| jonwil | I mean updating | 01:39 |
| jonwil | not flashing | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WALL CHARGER, not PC | 01:39 |
| Pali | it is *unsafe* to not use charger when updating :-) | 01:39 |
| Pali | now all actions are done via HAM | 01:39 |
| rhombus | Ok, now I see a screen with a package list and a button "Update all" | 01:40 |
| Pali | yes, update all | 01:40 |
| Pali | I hope you do not need me anymore, so I'm going offline | 01:40 |
| Pali | bye | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ta & n8 | 01:40 |
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| rhombus | Pali: thank you | 01:40 |
| rhombus | Pali: I also hope I do not need you anymore :) | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we really should clone this pal | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: once HAM is done (you prolly can leav device on charger over night) you should check cataligs once more, making sure there are no duplicates and no maemo-devel or -testing enabled, then do another BM backup and start having fun, maybe by restoring your backup of contacts etc | 01:45 |
| rhombus | ok... so this can run overnight? | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think so. Make sure it's charging | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E look at the system try battery icon if it's animated | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tray* | 01:47 |
| rhombus | it did notify me it was charging when I plugged it in | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 01:48 |
| rhombus | Thank you for your help Jörg | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | locking scren with side slider switch you should see amber flashing LED | 01:48 |
| rhombus | Yes, I see that | 01:48 |
| rhombus | That turned out to be quite a bit less simple than it appeared, I don't think that would have gone very well if I had tried it alone | 01:49 |
| rhombus | It certainly would have taken about five times as long | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so tomorrow you will find a charged battery (green LED) and either HAM finished update or it opened a requester with warning to nod off | 01:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves and heads over to TV | 01:51 | |
| rhombus | Thanks | 01:53 |
| rhombus | again | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one last generic advice for today: *always* do a backup before doing any restory of old backups, so you don't overwrite valuable data by restoring the backup | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | restore* | 01:56 |
| rhombus | ok | 01:57 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure how you mean that | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | immediately before doing a restore, make a new backup of the old (possibly broken or incomplete) state of your system | 01:58 |
| rhombus | just in case? | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 01:58 |
| rhombus | (I notice the clock has stopped -- is that expected behaviour?) | 01:58 |
| rhombus | The update list has cleared and the progress bar is full | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | umm, not really | 01:59 |
| rhombus | Device is being restarted | 01:59 |
| rhombus | A tone! | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clock might stop until some event happens that tells clock that somebody is looking at it | 01:59 |
| rhombus | Right | 02:00 |
| rhombus | Vibration | 02:00 |
| rhombus | Nokia logo... | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no audio? | 02:00 |
| rhombus | "Knight Rider - A shadowy flight into the world of a man... who does not exist" | 02:00 |
| rhombus | Ok | 02:00 |
| rhombus | Clock works again | 02:00 |
| rhombus | Desktop | 02:00 |
| rhombus | "Operating system updated successfully" | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D | 02:01 |
| rhombus | Sorry, my question of the night | 02:01 |
| rhombus | Now what? | 02:01 |
| rhombus | Catalog check in HAM? | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, then backup | 02:01 |
| rhombus | with BM | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait, then rootsh | 02:01 |
| rhombus | no duplicate catalog | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then BM backup | 02:02 |
| rhombus | Install rootsh first, then backup | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and maybe you also want to install sshd? | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I couldn't live without logging in to system via WiFi&ssh | 02:03 |
| rhombus | Sure, why not | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAM ->openssh iirc | 02:04 |
| rhombus | Installing BM does that automatically though | 02:04 |
| rhombus | as a dependency | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, only for BM VM | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sure | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it's already installed then you won't find it in HAM "install" / "all" | 02:05 |
| rhombus | installing OpenSSH client and server | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I also install bash right away, can't stand that messybox | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also you want to take care of "cherry", see ~jrtools | 02:07 |
| rhombus | yeah, I saw that, but didn't understand what it was about | 02:07 |
| rhombus | I have to delete file? | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's about a compulsory SMS the system sends to Nokia | 02:07 |
| rhombus | what is the difference between bash4 and bash4-opt? | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bfc | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no* | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkgs | 02:08 |
| infobot | #maemo pkg is probably http://maemo.org/packages/ | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, optified http://maemo.org/packages/view/bash4-opt/ | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification | 02:09 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 02:09 |
| rhombus | so I want this, yes? | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though i never bothered, my root still has a plenty 30 or 40MB free | 02:10 |
| rhombus | ok, bash4-opt, openssh client and server, and rootsh are installed. Now I do the backup with BM | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest to write it to uSD | 02:11 |
| rhombus | right, as I did the last time | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is considered safe | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't reflash uSD | 02:11 |
| rhombus | ok | 02:11 |
| rhombus | whoops, the phone spontaneously restarted after I shut it off | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah, you were busy and pressed button twice | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or it had a hiccup, happens sometimes | 02:12 |
| rhombus | Well, not intentionally | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you have charger plugged in :-D | 02:13 |
| rhombus | yes | 02:13 |
| rhombus | ok, now it is "off", I think | 02:13 |
| rhombus | should I do this backup without the charger connected? | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't mater really | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd recommend to keep it charging | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also iirc BM screen backlight is brighter when on charger | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in the normal version, I patched mine | 02:14 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 is old and needs bright screen always | 02:15 | |
| rhombus | ha | 02:15 |
| rhombus | so do I | 02:15 |
| rhombus | whoops, forgot to install BM | 02:16 |
| rhombus | ? | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't know | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 02:17 |
| infobot | it has been said that backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check catalogs after doing so | 02:18 |
| rhombus | Oh right, I have to install it with the URL | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | make sure you booted with slider open though | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might just not have noticed the open slider | 02:18 |
| rhombus | I did, it didn't work | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait a second | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -la /boo* | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16648 2015-06-27 13:05 /bootmenu.sh | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't have that when BM not installed | 02:20 |
| rhombus | I'm installing it now | 02:20 |
| rhombus | I must have missed that step | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't miss checking your catalogs after installing BM,it enables a few nasty ones | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or at least duoblettes | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and *each* catalog takes its time (minutes) in HAM ipdate | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-devel even can break your system when running "update all" in HAM while it's enabled | 02:23 |
| rhombus | WARNING WARNING ============ WARNING etc. | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, much of that is from I2Ctools package and genuine upstream | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we didn't remove those warnings | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though they might not really apply to N900 | 02:24 |
| rhombus | ok, in BM | 02:25 |
| rhombus | backing up | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | does it give an ETA? | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and is your clock correct? it's not mandatory but useful especially in backups | 02:27 |
| rhombus | It was off by about 12 min (fast) | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't matter :-) (except for GPS) | 02:27 |
| rhombus | RootFS backup complete | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sonds weird but verified | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OPTfs how much? | 02:29 |
| rhombus | done | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wow | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fast | 02:30 |
| rhombus | I don't have much stuff | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right | 02:30 |
| rhombus | wouldn't that explain it? | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:30 |
| rhombus | ok | 02:30 |
| rhombus | so | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | restore contacts et al | 02:30 |
| rhombus | now I can reboot and restore my contacts, right? | 02:30 |
| rhombus | hehe | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 02:31 |
| rhombus | here comes the pedo again | 02:31 |
| rhombus | Desktop | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pedo? aaah | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe get DONTPANIC! and again, no sound with shakehands videio? | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that would be slightly worrisome | 02:32 |
| rhombus | no, there was sound | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah ok | 02:33 |
| rhombus | How do I get my backup back onto the phone? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | backup app: restore | 02:33 |
| rhombus | but the backup is gone from the phone | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I use konqueror and sftp://IroN900 for that | 02:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you may use scp or... ass rage mode | 02:34 |
| rhombus | can't I just copy the folder onto my Nokia N900 mount? | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or your uSD | 02:35 |
| rhombus | man, I hope my Notes got backed up! | 02:36 |
| rhombus | oh no | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, you can plug it into PC USB, enable assrage, copy file to destination it been before (the destination you also find your backup you will just have done according to my recommendation), then UNPLUG USB(!!!) to stop assrage and make volume available to system again, then restore | 02:37 |
| rhombus | ok | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or worst case you find all the data in BM's tarball you did as vackup before you reflashed | 02:38 |
| rhombus | right | 02:38 |
| rhombus | phew | 02:38 |
| rhombus | the program list is part of the backup | 02:39 |
| rhombus | I don't want to restore that, do I? | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's in *opt*.tgz in (/home)/user/...* | 02:39 |
| rhombus | right | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you don't | 02:39 |
| rhombus | and settings? | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you might want to restore them, or not. Depends on ,,, what you want | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they include stuff like system name, WLAN settings etc iirc | 02:40 |
| rhombus | Oh -- okay, I want those | 02:41 |
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| rhombus | restoring | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did you do a backup first? | 02:41 |
| rhombus | but I just did a backup | 02:41 |
| rhombus | how many backups do i have to do? | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, since the restore will nuke recent stuff | 02:42 |
| rhombus | I haven't done anything except install packages, and after that I did a backup with BM | 02:42 |
| rhombus | I interrupted the restore now | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | B; != hildon backup | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BM* | 02:43 |
| rhombus | yeah, but why do I need to do a Hildon backup on a system that is empty? I don't get it | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's possible but comlicated to extract just settings, or just contacts from a BM backup | 02:43 |
| rhombus | But... the phone was just flashed | 02:44 |
| rhombus | there was nothing on it | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just for good measure, since it's always done that way ;-) | 02:44 |
| rhombus | ok | 02:44 |
| rhombus | ok, well, this time it's just superfluous | 02:45 |
| rhombus | I'm doing another restore, the interruption meant the settings were lost | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. I assume you already got a new WLAN config, that might not be identical (though you prolly know it is) to the one in backup | 02:45 |
| rhombus | it should be the same | 02:46 |
| rhombus | but I also had other WLAN configs (work, etc.) that I would like to get back | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sure about root passwords, they are most likely not even saved | 02:46 |
| rhombus | ok, the settings worked, the phone is silent | 02:46 |
| rhombus | and my contacts are back | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sire, go ahead. Just keep it in mind | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure* | 02:47 |
| rhombus | and all my messages | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next time you might want to do a backup first ;-) | 02:47 |
| rhombus | my notes are gone though | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | notes? | 02:47 |
| rhombus | The N900 notes app | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is it installed? | 02:48 |
| rhombus | yes | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, weird | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a stock app, no? | 02:48 |
| rhombus | the notes are saved in the documents directory though, I don't think the Hildon backup tool saves that (which is stupid if you ask me) | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly | 02:48 |
| rhombus | ok, I will have to get them from the BM backup | 02:49 |
| rhombus | but that can wait until tomorrow | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BM is a plain tarball | 02:49 |
| rhombus | but I want to do one more thing and test the GPS | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fix cherry first | 02:50 |
| rhombus | oh right | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a oneliner | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 02:50 |
| infobot | jrtools is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | touch /home/user/.cherry_state | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | saves you a SMS fee if nothing else | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though, I wonder if CSSU already fixed that | 02:51 |
| rhombus | Should there be a Bash terminal app if I have installed bash? | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xterm | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | `bash` | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I do | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chsh is dangerous | 02:52 |
| rhombus | xterm? | 02:53 |
| rhombus | Is that the same as X Terminal? | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | others reported success, but there were also bootloops when changing user's shell (NOT root's shell, weird enough) | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:53 |
| rhombus | Where do I change the settings for it? | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so my messybox hustory hasonly one command: bash | 02:54 |
| rhombus | oh, you just enter 'bash' as a command | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you may do `chsh bash` or the like, but... needs more love to get the syntax etc right, and as stated it's dangerous | 02:55 |
| rhombus | ok, I touched the .cherry_state file | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:55 |
| rhombus | is that all I have to do? | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not sure, prolly yes | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cherry | 02:55 |
| infobot | well, cherry is http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | imsert SIM, make sure your clock is (or gets) set correctly, test GPS. | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a liblocation-test app somewhere, pretty useful | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | location-test-gui | 02:58 |
| rhombus | ok, sim is in, restarting | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/location-test-gui/ | 02:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | root; cd /tmp; wget http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/l/location-test-gui/location-test-gui_0.93-1+0m5_armel.deb && dpkg -i location-test-gui/location-test-gui_0.93-1+0m5_armel.deb | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you add the SDK repo to HAM | 03:02 |
| rhombus | that would be easier, wouldn't it? | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 03:03 |
| rhombus | how do I add the SDK repo to HAM? | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good question | 03:05 |
| rhombus | lol | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_sdk-tools_non-free_armel/ | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | analog to http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can edit catalogs in HAM | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#How_to_activate_Extras-devel | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chnage the text accordingly | 03:08 |
| rhombus | do I still put "fremantle" in the Distribution field? | 03:10 |
| rhombus | so then I go to All and search for location-test-gui, yes? | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 03:12 |
| rhombus | the URL you gave me is old | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | If the config doesn't work, HAM will bitch about "broken catalog" | 03:12 |
| rhombus | as it did | 03:12 |
| rhombus | it didn't work, I get a 301 error, "moved permanently" | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://susepaste.org/85581366 | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as info source, not to copy the file | 03:17 |
| rhombus | oh | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually you won't have that file, it's from my enable-catalogs "tool" | 03:17 |
| rhombus | I don't even have enable-catalogs :) | 03:18 |
| rhombus | checking updates | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/enable-catalogs | 03:19 |
| rhombus | what does it do? | 03:20 |
| rhombus | installing location-test-gui | 03:21 |
| rhombus | wa wa | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look into it, it comes with --help | 03:23 |
| rhombus | No satellites | 03:23 |
| rhombus | It still has the location of some previous owner of the devices | 03:23 |
| rhombus | It still has the location of some previous owner of the device | 03:23 |
| rhombus | ok | 03:24 |
| rhombus | I think that's enough for tonight | 03:24 |
| rhombus | I will have to revisit this some other time | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you need to be outside for it seeing satellites | 03:24 |
| rhombus | I was hoping that my proximity to the window would help, but you are right of coruse | 03:24 |
| rhombus | my satnav device doesn't work in the apartment either :) | 03:24 |
| rhombus | I will try it tomorrow on the train platform :) | 03:25 |
| rhombus | Thanks Jörg for all your patience and help | 03:25 |
| rhombus | I still have a lot to learn | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 03:25 |
| rhombus | oh - wait, it sees two sats now | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's not all bad | 03:26 |
| rhombus | but I won't wait for it to lock, I can try it tomorrow | 03:26 |
| rhombus | thanks again, I'll be around :) | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I usually get a fix within 20s when I really fold the device to the window | 03:26 |
| rhombus | then it should work great outside tomorrow :) | 03:26 |
| rhombus | ciao | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o( | 03:27 |
| rhombus | hehe | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 03:27 |
| rhombus | o/ | 03:27 |
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| jonwil | I finally found the cause of the boot loop that started all my N900 troubles. I wanted to see what packages apt-get upgrade on cssu-devel actually wanted to install. So I added cssu-devel to my repo list and ran apt-get update. Then I ran apt-get -s upgrade (to simulate the list of packages it wanted to install) and it seems that if you do that, it will install package kernel-modules but NOT... | 04:33 |
| jonwil | ...the kernel itself. | 04:33 |
| jonwil | So that then screwed up the kernel modules | 04:33 |
| jonwil | Of course I didn't actually install anything and then I disabled cssu-devel immediately | 04:34 |
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| * Maxdamantus dislikes the idea of the package manager maintaining kernel modules (ie, files under /lib/modules belongining to the package itself) | 05:13 | |
| Maxdamantus | The kernel and the modules *could* be installed by something that is maintained by the package manager, but the package manager shouldn't maintain either directly. | 05:14 |
| Maxdamantus | Not sure how it typically works on, eg, Debian, since I've just been compiling my own kernels for as long as I can remember. | 05:14 |
| jonwil | I think the answer is to change something (dont know what) so that its impossible for the kernel modules to be installed without installing the matching kernel | 05:57 |
| jonwil | and vice versa | 05:57 |
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| Maxdamantus | So `a` depends on `b` and `b` depends on `a`, therefore it's impossible to install either, problem solved. | 06:25 |
| LjL | package managers are usually a little smarter than that | 06:25 |
| LjL | modern ones at least | 06:25 |
| Maxdamantus | but yeah, if a kernel/modules are part of a package, they really should be part of the same package. | 06:26 |
| Maxdamantus | Since they're meant to be artifacts of the exact same build process. | 06:26 |
| Maxdamantus | make && make install && make modules_install | 06:26 |
| Maxdamantus | (note that my point about not having the package manager "install" the modules/kernel still stands; it would be logical for something like `apt-get install kernel-installer` to give you some "install-kernel" command, which copies modules into /lib/modules and a kernel into /boot, and maybe updates some bootloader configuration) | 06:31 |
| Maxdamantus | (that way, when you uninstall/upgrade the "kernel-installer" package, it doesn't try to remove the old kernel/modules .. just the ability to install them again) | 06:32 |
| jonwil | Anyhow, if I end up being in a position to do updates to CSSU-devel I will make some changes to solve that | 06:34 |
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| jonwil | merlin1991: ping | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well... NEVER run apt-get zpgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade on maemo | 06:42 |
| jonwil | regardless of all that, it shouldn't ever be possible to install a package in a way where some other thing is also needed for the system to work but that other thing doesn't get installed | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, good luck | 06:44 |
| jonwil | why do you say that? | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because that's a question of dependencies and maemo isn't built in a way that handles dependencies so you could do upgrade or dist-upgrade. | 06:44 |
| jonwil | I am not interested in fixing it so you can do upgrade or dist-upgrade, I am interested in making it so its impossible to do apt-get install blah and end up with a system that doesn't work (regardless of what blah is) | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and like you're not supposed to do a apt-get upgrade, you as wel could install some conflicting lib or module or the like with dpkg -i pkgname and that would also not get handled gracefully if the dependencies inside the packages are not made to cope with it | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU-devel *is* broken | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-extras-devel has broken packages. You're not supposed to enable either of both repos and if you do neverthrless you MUST NOT do apt-get upgrade. You will be able to install the nroken packages with apt-get install. FIX: do not enable those repos | 06:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | to make it utterly clear: the kernel modules are supposed to have a dependency to kernel (obviously) but - partially due to the way kernel gets flashed on N900 rather than installed as a package - this can't get done in maemo | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo has metapackage that consists of all the needed and paired things to make a working system. and you install that package instead of doing apt.get upgrade. The wrong kernel modules wouldn't get installed by installing the PR metapackage | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could apt-get install wrong kernel modules on any system I guess, when you have wrong repos enabled and point to the wrong kernel modulles. that's not specifically maemo and not a bug | 07:02 |
| jonwil | Yeah fair enough I guess | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | O hosed my PC linux by installing some libs from a newer distro release | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I* | 07:04 |
| jonwil | If you install anything manually from any of the CSSU repos instead of installing cssu (stable, testing or thumb) the recommended way and getting mp-fremantle-community-pr and its exact dependencies) its your own fault if the system is screwed | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which really is a bug I'd say, at least as far as shared object libs are concerned, since tthey are supposed to be able to coexist | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: pretty much yes :-) | 07:06 |
| jonwil | Its my own fault for screwing up my N900 by not reading the warnings never to use apt-get upgrade and by not checking what packages it wanted to install. | 07:07 |
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| jonwil | But definitely we should update cssu-devel with newer packages and we should figure out what packages in cssu-devel have been tested enough to be safe to promote to cssu-testing | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, we can try to fix that sick maemo-*-PR metapackage scheme as much as possible | 07:08 |
| jonwil | I am sure the latest version of maemo-security-certman should be put in cssu-testing for example | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that too | 07:09 |
| jonwil | Speaking of which, there is probably a newer certdata.txt that I could pull into maemo-security-certman :) | 07:09 |
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| jonwil | actually, no there is not | 07:12 |
| jonwil | I just pulled the latest one and it matches the one I pulled last time I updated things | 07:12 |
| merlin1991 | jonwil: pong | 07:34 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil: ignoring multiple warnings because 'it wont happen to me' isnt smart ;) | 08:20 |
| KotCzarny | 1/ you ignored warnings about -devel repos | 08:20 |
| KotCzarny | 2/ ignored warning of not using apt-get update | 08:21 |
| KotCzarny | but it's fine, you've learned a bit in the process | 08:21 |
| KotCzarny | (fear greatly increases remembering ;) | 08:21 |
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| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: My phone was "charging" all night -- when I checked it this morning the LED was still blinking yellow. When I disconnected it from the charger, the battery level was just above empty. | 11:30 |
| rhombus | I am not sure what happened there. | 11:30 |
| KotCzarny | uh-oh | 11:30 |
| KotCzarny | what charger/cable? | 11:30 |
| KotCzarny | your phone might be using more juice than provided | 11:31 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: It could be that the WLAN was running all night, that's why I rebooted | 11:31 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: The charger is the Nokia AC-2E | 11:31 |
| KotCzarny | wifi alone isnt enough | 11:31 |
| KotCzarny | did you set it not to turn of the display? maybe some application running all the time? | 11:32 |
| rhombus | 5.3 V, 500 mA output | 11:32 |
| rhombus | The browser was left open, other than that I don't think anything else was running | 11:32 |
| KotCzarny | definitely 500 might be enough, but best to use 900mA or better | 11:33 |
| KotCzarny | close browser | 11:33 |
| rhombus | I rebooted, so... | 11:33 |
| rhombus | browser closed :) | 11:33 |
| KotCzarny | any widgets on desktop? | 11:33 |
| KotCzarny | anything weird you have installed? | 11:34 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: You mean open applications? | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | well, you can have widgets | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | tiny apps that take place on the desktop | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | not recommended usually | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | there was also a battery/current monitoring script, you might want to run it to see | 11:35 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I did the lazyflashing procedure yesterday with Joerg and installed CSSU | 11:35 |
| KotCzarny | ~bq2700 | 11:36 |
| KotCzarny | ~bq2700.sh | 11:36 |
| KotCzarny | hrm | 11:36 |
| rhombus | bot is asleep maybe | 11:36 |
| jonwil | ~bq27200 | 11:36 |
| infobot | well, bq27k-detail is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2, or ~bq27 | 11:36 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, cssu is recommended | 11:36 |
| KotCzarny | i suspect browser was running some weird js | 11:36 |
| jonwil | I have definitely had instances when a web page open in the browser drains my battery real fast | 11:37 |
| KotCzarny | you can run the bq script as root with '1' as a param to observe current usage | 11:37 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: that's possible, the whole procedure (despite all the claims that it would "not take long") took about four hours | 11:37 |
| jonwil | The n900 browser is a massive resource hog unfortunately | 11:37 |
| KotCzarny | is your network slow? last time i was flashing/installing cssu wasnt longer than 30 min | 11:37 |
| KotCzarny | that including me reading the steps | 11:38 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I'm talking about the entire procedure | 11:38 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 11:39 |
| rhombus | backups (many), package installs, flashing, restores, etc. | 11:39 |
| KotCzarny | well, i dont know about backups, just flashing+cssu | 11:39 |
| rhombus | Can i install bq27200 from the HAM? | 11:39 |
| KotCzarny | nope, it's just a shell script | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | download with wget | 11:40 |
| rhombus | jonwil: is it the browser or the wifi module that's the resource hog? ;-) | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | then run in shell | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | can be ran via ssh | 11:40 |
| jonwil | browser | 11:40 |
| jonwil | wifi isn't a buge resource hog in my experience | 11:40 |
| jonwil | huge | 11:40 |
| rhombus | jonwil: that's not what I've been told | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | wifi can be resource hog in crowded areas | 11:40 |
| Wizzup | is the battery maybe just dead? | 11:40 |
| jonwil | Yes WiFi can be a resource hog if the network is congested | 11:41 |
| rhombus | jonwil: when I first got the phone I left the WLAN on and the new, fully charged battery was dead by the end of the day | 11:41 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, he wouldnt be able to flash then | 11:41 |
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| rhombus | so I turned it off | 11:41 |
| jonwil | my experience is that WiFi doesn't drain the battery | 11:41 |
| rhombus | Wizzup: the battery is not that old | 11:41 |
| rhombus | jonwil: do you live in the country? | 11:42 |
| jonwil | but you may have something about the WiFi environment in your area that might be a battery hod | 11:42 |
| jonwil | I live in a city | 11:42 |
| KotCzarny | also, dont enable 'periodically search for networks' | 11:42 |
| KotCzarny | THAT's a battery hog | 11:42 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: That was on, yes | 11:42 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: and yes, I turned that off, too | 11:42 |
| jonwil | Yeah that is definitely the battery hog there | 11:42 |
| jonwil | regular old WiFi not so much | 11:42 |
| rhombus | Well, that is on by default :) | 11:42 |
| rhombus | so... unless you know this and actively turn it off... | 11:43 |
| KotCzarny | apart from that, you can install battery-eye app | 11:44 |
| KotCzarny | from my experience it's very good to observe battery history | 11:44 |
| KotCzarny | and isnt like many of the others, not eating battery itself | 11:44 |
| KotCzarny | also provides nice statistics | 11:45 |
| jonwil | Where is the "periodically search for networks" option? | 11:45 |
| rhombus | Ok, I'll make a note | 11:45 |
| jonwil | I see "search interval" at 10 minutes, is that it? | 11:45 |
| rhombus | While I have you all here, isn't this phone supposed to have an FM receiver? | 11:45 |
| rhombus | I can't find an app for it | 11:45 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil: internet connections | 11:45 |
| KotCzarny | then 'switch to wifi when available' | 11:45 |
| KotCzarny | and search interval | 11:46 |
| KotCzarny | well, mostly 'search interval' | 11:46 |
| jonwil | I have that option enabled with search interval at 10 minutes and I dont get battery hog | 11:46 |
| buZz | rhombus: the radio only works if you put a headphone in, it uses the wire as antenna | 11:46 |
| rhombus | I had it enabled at 10 min | 11:46 |
| rhombus | buZz: But I can't even find an app for it :) | 11:46 |
| KotCzarny | there is app for fm radio | 11:47 |
| buZz | well thats something else, cant help you there :P | 11:47 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: in the community catalogs? | 11:47 |
| KotCzarny | called.. 'fm radio' | 11:47 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 11:47 |
| KotCzarny | dont remember, probably | 11:47 |
| rhombus | such a strange name | 11:47 |
| KotCzarny | it was a few years since i last installed things on my n900 | 11:47 |
| KotCzarny | usually most things come from extras | 11:48 |
| KotCzarny | and many times newest versions in extras-devel | 11:48 |
| KotCzarny | while extras should be safe to leave enabled | 11:48 |
| KotCzarny | extras-devel should be only enabled to install specific apps | 11:49 |
| KotCzarny | and only if you trust devel and want latest version | 11:49 |
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| KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_receiver#User | 11:50 |
| KotCzarny | also, you should read wiki more | 11:50 |
| rhombus | my stupid wlan at work has a super tight firewall filter, the install fails | 11:50 |
| rhombus | I'll have to do this at home | 11:50 |
| KotCzarny | http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmradio/ | 11:50 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I am fond of reading, but the Wiki is a bit of a mess | 11:50 |
| KotCzarny | it is | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | but also great source of useful information | 11:51 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: There's lots of stuff there that is totally outdated and for a new user it is confusing and sometimes even dangerous | 11:51 |
| bencoh | indeed | 11:51 |
| rhombus | without Joerg's help yesterday I would have had no chance | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | nah | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | you would be fine | 11:51 |
| rhombus | If people point me to the right info, yes :) | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | just you would learn a lot more | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | (at the expense of more time) | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | (and errors ;) | 11:51 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: yes and yes :) | 11:52 |
| KotCzarny | usually you can check user's pages on wiki | 11:52 |
| KotCzarny | people bookmark important bits | 11:52 |
| rhombus | Ah, good tip, thanks | 11:52 |
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| KotCzarny | i wonder why User:Dik is targetted by spam | 11:54 |
| KotCzarny | probably someone wrote a script | 11:54 |
| KotCzarny | and published in some spamkit | 11:54 |
| KotCzarny | sixwheeledbeast: ^ | 11:57 |
| KotCzarny | rhombus: also, is your wifi enabled with power saving mode? | 12:01 |
| KotCzarny | it tends to eat a bit without | 12:01 |
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| rhombus | KotCzarny: Let me see | 12:23 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: Where do I find that setting? | 12:28 |
| KotCzarny | in internet connections | 12:28 |
| KotCzarny | probably in advanced button | 12:28 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I don't see an advanced button, unfortunately | 12:28 |
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| KotCzarny | connections -> (select your net) edit -> few times 'next' until you see 'advanced' | 12:29 |
| rhombus | power saving is at max | 12:30 |
| rhombus | is that a general setting or does that apply only to this connection? | 12:31 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, default is max | 12:31 |
| KotCzarny | but you can change it per-connection i think | 12:31 |
| rhombus | Ah, ok | 12:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | done. | 12:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Been away for a bit, just reading ^^^ | 12:45 |
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| Wizzup | https://www.krackattacks.com | 13:08 |
| Wizzup | well, rip n900 wifi | 13:08 |
| Wizzup | maemo* | 13:08 |
| bencoh | yeah ... | 13:11 |
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| Wizzup | unless we switch to wpa_supplicant (and then a new version) :) | 13:13 |
| bencoh | or patch the current implementation (is it closed?) | 13:15 |
| KotCzarny | The weaknesses are in the Wi-Fi standard itself, and not in individual products or implementations. Therefore, any correct implementation of WPA2 is likely affected | 13:15 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 13:16 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: apparently there is some kind of workaround to the weakness | 13:16 |
| Wizzup | bencoh: closed | 13:16 |
| bencoh | (backward-compatible) | 13:16 |
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| rhombus | Damn. I think my battery is damaged :( | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | ~polarcell | 13:31 |
| infobot | somebody said polarcell was http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390402445382 BL-5J Replacement | 13:31 |
| rhombus | I have a variocell, it's been great up until now | 13:31 |
| rhombus | but it's only 5 months old! | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | yup, that's how those cheapos work | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | great at the first sight | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | then deteriorate quickly | 13:31 |
| rhombus | Cheapos? It was the only thing available! | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | i still own and use ORIGINAL nokia battery that came with my n900 in 2009 | 13:32 |
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| rhombus | My original battery was totally useless | 13:32 |
| rhombus | It took two days to fully charge and then it held its charge for about six hours | 13:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have had good success with several polarcells from wannasee | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | but aslo get good charger | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | 500mA isnt going to cut it | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | beware of cheapos too. | 13:33 |
| bencoh | reminds me I should probably order a spare battery and compatible charger | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | better get original nokia charger | 13:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | expected life is only 2-3 years | 13:34 |
| rhombus | I'm using the charger that came with the phone, an original Nokia charger | 13:34 |
| bencoh | actually I dont really need a compatible charger, only a compatible cable (ie D+/D- shorted to ground) | 13:34 |
| rhombus | The battery was working beautifully until I did this reflash | 13:34 |
| rhombus | Stellar, these Varocells aren't even available anymore | 13:37 |
| rhombus | Is there any point in buying an old Nokia BL-5J, or one in original packaging? They've gotta be ancient by now | 13:38 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I was looking at them magnetic USB cables but I imagine they are not D shorted. | 13:38 |
| rhombus | When I search for BL-5J on ebay, nothing but junk comes up | 13:40 |
| rhombus | Are there other model numbers that are equivalent? | 13:40 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: why not just get a Polarcell? | 13:42 |
| Maxdamantus | I imagine if anyone claims to be selling a BL-5J nowadays, it's probably fake. | 13:43 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: There isn't one available -- that link comes up with a "CURRENTLY SOLD OUT" page | 13:43 |
| rhombus | and the links below are to UK sellers, that's not much use to me | 13:43 |
| rhombus | Ok, where do I get a decent charger? Can I just use a generic (micro-)USB charger? | 13:49 |
| rhombus | I don't want cheap junk | 13:49 |
| Maxdamantus | They seem to be advertising them on Amazon still, maybe they'll ship to other countries through there. | 13:51 |
| Maxdamantus | Do you mean a charger to just plug into the phone? | 13:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://www.wannsee-electronic.de/handyakkus/nokia/polarcell_hochleistungsakku_fuer_nokia_n900_ersetzt_originalakku__bl-5j_i2_2090_0.htm | 13:55 |
| Maxdamantus | aiui, you can get around the D shorting issue through software. | 13:55 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: there must be suppliers on the Continent | 13:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | No idea if there is an english site but maybe a good idea to replace the factiod with the company site over ebay. | 13:55 |
| KotCzarny | there were still new bl-5j produced by nokia for some nokia asha series | 13:56 |
| KotCzarny | that was year ago or so | 13:56 |
| rhombus | sixwheeledbeast: No worries, I can read the German | 13:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | i can't | 13:56 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: Produced by Nokia, or by "Nokia"? ;-) | 13:56 |
| Maxdamantus | I think you can just do something like: echo 1800 >/sys/class/power_supply/bq24150a-0/charge_current | 13:57 |
| KotCzarny | since nokia is no more since ~2012, by whatever m$ ordered it to, i presume factories didnt change | 13:57 |
| Maxdamantus | after plugging in a non-shorted supply .. not sure though, I've just shorted the supplies I happen to use. | 13:58 |
| KotCzarny | also, my n900 came with 900mA charger | 13:58 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: Can you direct me to a suitable 900 mA charger? | 14:01 |
| Maxdamantus | Hmm .. with those magnetic cables, do you actually need to short them? Shouldn't they just function as normal USB cables, so you'd just have it shorted at the type A port, or have it plugged into a computer that it can negotiate a current with? | 14:01 |
| KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Accessories#Chargers | 14:01 |
| KotCzarny | oh, it's 1200mA, not 900 | 14:02 |
| KotCzarny | most likely my n800 charger is 900 one | 14:02 |
| KotCzarny | AC-10U | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | but if you have htc/samsung etc, you can use that one | 14:04 |
| KotCzarny | just use the original, not noname one | 14:04 |
| rhombus | AC-10U will have a NEMA 1-15 plug, no? | 14:05 |
| rhombus | It says here for US N900 | 14:05 |
| rhombus | I need a type F plug | 14:06 |
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| KotCzarny | ac-10e seems eu version | 14:07 |
| rhombus | ah, thank you | 14:07 |
| rhombus | these reviews are not encouraging | 14:08 |
| KotCzarny | maybe fakes? | 14:09 |
| rhombus | Entirely possible :( | 14:09 |
| KotCzarny | i havent seen anyone on #maemo saying his/hers charger breaking bad | 14:10 |
| rhombus | Is this a standard charger format? Does it have to be a Nokia charger? | 14:10 |
| KotCzarny | as i've said, even cheapo fake will charge | 14:10 |
| KotCzarny | but it's best to use branded one | 14:10 |
| KotCzarny | and yes, doesnt have to be nokia branded | 14:10 |
| KotCzarny | just that nokia did solid products | 14:10 |
| rhombus | The reviews on the German Amazon site are savage -- ("broke after three weeks", "complete junk", etc) | 14:11 |
| rhombus | they are probably poorly refurbished previously defective units | 14:11 |
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| rhombus | oh, and some more "fake" and "really original? I doubt it" "not recommended" | 14:12 |
| rhombus | so much for that | 14:12 |
| rhombus | So a standards compliant micro-USB charger will do the job | 14:12 |
| rhombus | I'll get one of those then | 14:12 |
| Maxdamantus | Though I think there's some chance a "standard-compliant" charger wouldn't be standards-compliant enough. | 14:13 |
| KotCzarny | if it's original and branded, it should be ok | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | try borrowing some charger | 14:14 |
| Maxdamantus | in that it might not have its data pins shorted, which means the device needs to negotiate a current with a computer. | 14:14 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: one issue is that the Nokia charger has an output voltage of 5.3 V listed, wheres the standard chargers have 5 V output | 14:14 |
| Maxdamantus | The voltage shouldn't be an issue. | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | i often charge n900 straight from my thinkpad too | 14:15 |
| KotCzarny | no issues | 14:15 |
| KotCzarny | (but thinkpads can easily supply more than 500mA) | 14:15 |
| Maxdamantus | Mm, I've done that too, including using the charging port thing, which I think acts as a dumb supply (so the N900 will be able to draw 1.6 A or something from it). | 14:16 |
| Maxdamantus | (I think that's only while the thinkpad is asleep/off) | 14:16 |
| rhombus | man, it just gets worse: "The third time I plugged it in, there was a dull thud... and the charger was dead." | 14:17 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: if main battery isnt charging, there is a lots of power available | 14:17 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: yeah, but afaik you're not normally going to draw more than 500 mA from a computer, since the device won't try to negotiate more than 500 mA. | 14:18 |
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| KotCzarny | maxd: i was running 1A and more hdds via usb with thinkpads | 14:18 |
| KotCzarny | those are really solid machines | 14:18 |
| KotCzarny | (were.) | 14:18 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: I'm just talking about the current draw from an N900. | 14:18 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: yes. I will hang on to my T500 for as long as possible, it was the last decent model | 14:19 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: sure, the Thinkpad has more than enough power available, but I don't think the N900 will draw more than 500 mA from a computer, unless you force it to. | 14:19 |
| Maxdamantus | (that is, more than 500 mA from a smart power supply) | 14:19 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: still better power quality than any noname charger | 14:19 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, if it supplies enough current at the right voltage, it should be the same as any other charger. | 14:20 |
| rhombus | a huge industry, producing tonnes of electronics that turns to junk in just a few months | 14:22 |
| rhombus | very discouraging | 14:22 |
| KotCzarny | rhombus: i use my n900 since 2009 | 14:22 |
| KotCzarny | got 3 spares just in case | 14:22 |
| Maxdamantus | and yeah, I can confirm that it behaves the way I described. | 14:22 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I wasn't referring to the N900 or the Thinkpad T_series prior to 2009 :) | 14:22 |
| Maxdamantus | plug it into computer, charge_limit = 500 | 14:22 |
| Maxdamantus | plug it into power supply with data pins shorted, charge_limit = 1800 | 14:23 |
| rhombus | The rest of the industry... all I can say is, holy $%& | 14:23 |
| Maxdamantus | and iirc, the Thinkpad only acts as a dumb supply when it's off/asleep. | 14:23 |
| Maxdamantus | otherwise it's just a computer, and a USB device shouldn't ask for more than 500 mA. | 14:23 |
| Maxdamantus | at least until USB 3 | 14:23 |
| Maxdamantus | (which N900 obviously doesn't implement) | 14:24 |
| KotCzarny | btw. in idle n900 should take ~10mA | 14:26 |
| Maxdamantus | You can always just force the N900 to draw up to 1800 mA by writing "1800" into the "charge_limit" sysfs node, which might be okay. | 14:26 |
| KotCzarny | that's why even 500mA would work. unless something eats a lots of power | 14:26 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, the advantage would be faster charging. | 14:27 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but he had a problem charging overnight | 14:27 |
| Maxdamantus | If it used 0 mA, it would still take at least 3.2 hours to charge a 1600 mAh battery at 100% efficiency. | 14:27 |
| Maxdamantus | (when drawing 500 mA) | 14:28 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: Maxdamantus As I said, the charger worked wonderfully right up until yesterday, when I did the flashing | 14:29 |
| rhombus | The battery was full when the process started | 14:29 |
| rhombus | I did not have the phone plugged in during the updates, as I assumed that a full battery would mean I had more than enough time | 14:29 |
| rhombus | by the time the process was complete the battery was almost totally empty | 14:30 |
| rhombus | And now, it is not charging | 14:30 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, in full use with screen on battery suffices for ~4-10 hours | 14:30 |
| rhombus | I don't think the charger is to blame | 14:30 |
| rhombus | I think the battery has checked out | 14:30 |
| rhombus | I have no way of knowing this for certain, but the phone recognizes that a charger has been connected when I plug it in and indicates that it is charging | 14:31 |
| KotCzarny | you can try leaving it OFF for 30 minutes | 14:31 |
| rhombus | I would use that script you recommended but I am at work and I can't use the network | 14:31 |
| KotCzarny | and see if it charged | 14:31 |
| KotCzarny | a bit | 14:31 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: it needs to be able to boot the OS to charge effectively. | 14:31 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: you mean charge it in off state? | 14:31 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: he left it installing cssu | 14:31 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: it will only draw a small amount of current (I think 100 mA) through just hardware. | 14:32 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: when I went to bed the installlation was complete | 14:32 |
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| rhombus | Maxdamantus: as I've said, I haven't any issues charging the phone -- on or off -- until this reflash | 14:32 |
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| rhombus | This is not an existing problem, this started last night | 14:33 |
| rhombus | I will try turning the phone off and charging it that way | 14:33 |
| rhombus | and order two replacement cells | 14:33 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: hang on, how are you determining that charging isn't working? | 14:34 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: It charged over night and the battery was still almost empty | 14:34 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: maybe installing CSSU included using replacement-bme, which can be misleading if the battery is uncalibrated. | 14:34 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: then I charged for 2 hours this morning, after a reboot, and still nothing | 14:34 |
| KotCzarny | ya. that too | 14:34 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: oh, man, really? (I wish someone had mentioned this when I did the update) | 14:35 |
| KotCzarny | ~calibration | 14:35 |
| KotCzarny | ~battery-calibration | 14:36 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys battery | 14:36 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'battery' by key (11 of 17): true, but the lack of extra battery #DEL# ;; #maemo battery ;; flips ibot's battery disconnect switch ;; batterytest ;; wmbattery ;; battery disconnect switch ;; as battery acid #DEL# ;; battery damage ;; battery-usage ;; batteryfaq ;; heh, no bottom view. can't tell if the battery #DEL#. | 14:36 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys calibration | 14:36 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'calibration' by key (1): bq27k-calibration. | 14:36 |
| KotCzarny | ~bq27k-calibration | 14:36 |
| infobot | well, bq27k-calibration is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1247595#post1247595 | 14:36 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: lsmod | grep bq27 | 14:37 |
| Maxdamantus | rhombus: if that shows the module, it'll be using the bme replacement. | 14:37 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: ok, hang on, I have to boot the phone, it was off | 14:37 |
| rhombus | also, you are right, it was not charging when off. Why is that? That worked last night | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | Maxdamantus: but one thing is weird, because he have said, he left it charging overnight and in the morning it was still orange | 14:38 |
| Maxdamantus | which uses information stored in the batter calibration chip to show charge, instead of just doing something weird with the current voltage. | 14:38 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: hm, I guess that might be weird. | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | rhombus: no, phone never goes into off mode, it fakes being off | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | he meant when 'laptop is off' | 14:38 |
| rhombus | oh, sorry | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<KotCzarny> also, dont enable 'periodically search for networks' THAT's a battery hog)) ONLY when WLAN is not logged in to an AP | 14:38 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: But then it should still charge when off, no? The yellow LED was not on even though the phone was plugged in | 14:39 |
| rhombus | and the charger stopped whistling | 14:39 |
| rhombus | when I turned it on again, the whistling returned | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | battery-eye DRAINS battery | 14:39 |
| KotCzarny | btw. it was ON or pulsing? | 14:39 |
| KotCzarny | DocScrutinizer05: nope, afair it only takes snapshots when system events occur, and the graph isnt continuous | 14:40 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: When? Just now? Just now it was totally off | 14:40 |
| KotCzarny | no, in the morning | 14:40 |
| rhombus | Maxdamantus: lsmod | grep bq27 returns nothing | 14:40 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: in the morning it was yellow... I *think* it was pulsing | 14:41 |
| KotCzarny | ok. because sometimes daemon responsible hangs | 14:41 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: It may drain battery, but the key point here is that this worked fine until the reflash | 14:41 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: with battery-eye on | 14:41 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: Ok, well, I've rebooted this morning | 14:42 |
| rhombus | bq27 module is not running, so can I assume it is using the old battery manager? | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, wall of text with lots of ... | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can't see what's happening and what all the incorrect assumptions were | 14:42 |
| KotCzarny | basically he claims his battery didnt charge overninght after cssu install | 14:43 |
| KotCzarny | *overnight | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might recall I tried to make sure your device charged. That was for a reason. Maybe we should have given it another boot. Then a 500mA charger is not compatible with N900 anyway | 14:44 |
| KotCzarny | but it should charge even with 500mA | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I assumed you had a compatible charger | 14:44 |
| KotCzarny | also, he says it was working before | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: no. 500mA has no D+- short | 14:45 |
| KotCzarny | but it still would charge, only slower | 14:45 |
| KotCzarny | not 'almost empty' after whole night of charging | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would charge with max 100mA | 14:46 |
| KotCzarny | still WOULD charge | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, that can and will result in battery almost empty after a night | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when display backlight on | 14:47 |
| KotCzarny | did he left lcd on? | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you know he didn't? | 14:47 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: So whoever sold me the phone wasn't totally honest -- the charger is not original? | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's maybe a genuine Nokia charger but not for that device | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | maybe the cable is just 2 wires? | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | is the cable unusually thin? | 14:48 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: but... how many times do I have to repeat this? This worked fine until yesterday. Was I imagining things? | 14:48 |
| rhombus | It would take about eight hours to charge from totally empty to totally full | 14:49 |
| rhombus | I routinely did partial charges (from say 50 - 60 % to 100 %) in the evenings or over night | 14:49 |
| KotCzarny | btw. can you access www at all? | 14:49 |
| rhombus | and a charge held typically two to three days | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, charging has a number of modes | 14:49 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: let me check | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-10-16 Mon 13:44:16] <DocScrutinizer05> you might recall I tried to make sure your device charged. That was for a reason. Maybe we should have given it another boot. | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wild guessing, anecdotal "evidence", and inappropriate measures won't "fix" this now | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | give the device a reboot! | 14:51 |
| rhombus | again? I rebooted this morning | 14:51 |
| rhombus | then charged for two hours | 14:51 |
| rhombus | no effect, battery shows as empty | 14:51 |
| KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter/bq-script | 14:51 |
| KotCzarny | dont know if its the latest/proper version | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah ok. This morning then fine | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unplig and replug USB | 14:51 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I'm on the company guest network, it has a portal | 14:52 |
| rhombus | Let me see if I can use the employee wifi | 14:52 |
| KotCzarny | do you have any data plan on gsm? | 14:53 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | D+- short means fastcharging. 500mA is no fatscharging, so a 500mA charger will most likely not have D+- short. And device is meant to try USB ENUM when it sees VBUS without D+- short | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hook it up to a PC so you know it's charging with 500mA | 14:56 |
| rhombus | damn, I can't authenticate | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe do that stuff tonight then? | 14:56 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, i will have to do it then | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of draining your battery further by futile installaion efforts | 14:56 |
| rhombus | (I don't understand why this authentication doesn't work, but oh well) | 14:57 |
| rhombus | I would connect the phone to my thinkpad but lack a suitable microUSB cable | 14:57 |
| rhombus | more stuff to add to the shopping list | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | close all apps and lock/dim the screen, then atach it to that charger. This way it should still charge a little bit | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yeah, disable WLAN | 14:59 |
| KotCzarny | also, funny, you can access irc but not www | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | scanning for APs really is a terrible battery hog | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the more APs in vicinity the worse | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a reason the system does this only periodically | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | disable periodic scanning, that's OK then | 15:01 |
| Maxdamantus | You should still be able to get 500 mA from a 500 mA charger, by doing `echo 500 >/sys/class/power_supply/bq24150a-0/charge_limit` after plugging it in. | 15:04 |
| Maxdamantus | (you can also read that file to see how much it's willing to draw; will probably say 100 after plugging it into that charger) | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~power | 15:11 |
| infobot | well, power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption | 15:11 |
| rhombus | (on phone) | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>WLAN on - no powersave *) - 200 mA<< *) or no associated AP which controls powersave | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB: >>WLAN transmit 802.11b - 150 mA<< - only | 15:13 |
| KotCzarny | b | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so WLAN RX without AP sucks more power than constant TX | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<rhombus> It would take about eight hours to charge from totally empty to totally full)) doesn't match charging with 500mA which shouldn't take longer than 3h to charge a 1300mAh battery. Rather matches charging a maybe 20% battery (shows as empty) to 80% (shows as full) at 100mA, particularly when the battery capacity has aged and is maybe only 1000mAh now | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and 100mA charging is what you'd expect to see from a charger without D+- short | 15:32 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: ok | 15:33 |
| KotCzarny | see what maxd said | 15:33 |
| rhombus | so I need a new charger | 15:33 |
| KotCzarny | connect that charger, then check the sys file | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also note that charging details changed from PR1.2 to PR1.3 iirc | 15:33 |
| KotCzarny | if it's 100, set it to 500 and observe | 15:33 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: that works only if bq27 is installed | 15:33 |
| KotCzarny | you can try switching to cssu-thumb | 15:33 |
| KotCzarny | or cssu-testing | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errwut? | 15:34 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: please don't touch *thumb! (for now) | 15:34 |
| KotCzarny | thought cssu comes with newer module already | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, CSSU is about fixing stuff | 15:35 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, where does that module coming from? | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PK | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | i have pk53 | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | and no such sys file | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | it needs to load that module by hand? | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then the module is most probably blacklisted | 15:36 |
| KotCzarny | what was the module named again? | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea | 15:37 |
| KotCzarny | only mousedev is in blacklist | 15:37 |
| KotCzarny | ./bq27x00_battery.ko | 15:38 |
| rhombus | ok, off the phone | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<KotCzarny> see what maxd said)) sorry, I don't see that | 15:41 |
| KotCzarny | funny, seems that module is not used, and bq script works fine without it | 15:41 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I'm on IRC on my laptop on the LAN | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, BQ script works fine *only* without that module | 15:41 |
| KotCzarny | rhombus: download bq script on laptop then scp ? | 15:41 |
| bencoh | +1 for scp | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please leave rhombus alone with messing up his phone while no connection to internet | 15:42 |
| rhombus | whoa, just noticed something | 15:43 |
| rhombus | When I press on the status bar, I see | 15:43 |
| KotCzarny | bq script is safe | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a notifier "not enough charging power"? | 15:43 |
| rhombus | "Battery: 13% Battery charging 168/1234 mAh 3 hours" | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: don't you tell the inventor of bq script about its properties ;-) | 15:44 |
| KotCzarny | oh, tell me more, what are the risks? :P | 15:44 |
| rhombus | (reading all your previous messages) | 15:44 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I cannot get on the company intranet, I have to do this at home this evening | 15:45 |
| rhombus | Ok, I have closed all apps and dimmed the screen. Internet connections says "no connection" | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | make sure you set to "scan for new APs: never" or somesuch, in internet/WLAN settings | 15:47 |
| rhombus | I will have to see about a replacement charger, the Nokia ones seem to be fakes | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/never/manually/ | 15:47 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: make sure you set to "scan for new APs: manually" or somesuch, in internet/WLAN settings | 15:47 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: I have : "Connect automatically: Always ask" | 15:48 |
| rhombus | is that the right place? | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next to it, moment please | 15:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 fetches phone | 15:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Einstellungen - Suchinterval: Nie | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Einstellungen - Internet - Suchinterval: Nie | 15:50 |
| rhombus | From which Settings applet? | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | settings - internet - >> | 15:50 |
| rhombus | from which one? | 15:50 |
| rhombus | Internet connections? | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:51 |
| rhombus | Because there, I see only | 15:51 |
| rhombus | "Automatisch verbinden: Immer fragen" | 15:51 |
| rhombus | then on the right | 15:51 |
| rhombus | "Verbindungen" | 15:51 |
| rhombus | and "Speichern" | 15:51 |
| rhombus | "Suchintervall" is greyed out | 15:51 |
| rhombus | (And it says 30 min) | 15:52 |
| rhombus | Ok, now I set "WLAN" and changed the interval to never | 15:52 |
| rhombus | and then set it back to Always ask | 15:52 |
| rhombus | I'm going to leave this be until I get home tonight | 15:53 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: Until then, can you suggest a better charger? | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | three buttins: "Autimatisch verbinden", "Suchinterval" and a checkbox "[ ] Bei verfuegbarkeit in WLAN wechseln" - values: "Beliebige Verbindung", "Nie", "[x]" | 15:53 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: What's wrong with "Immer fragen"? | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | up to you | 15:54 |
| rhombus | Otherwise it will automatically try to connect, no? | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but not via WLAN when interval is set to "Nie" | 15:55 |
| rhombus | I don't have a data plan, so "always ask" is fine, it worked fine last night | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:55 |
| rhombus | It tells me there is no connection, shows me a list, and lets me choose -- that's perfectly acceptable | 15:55 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: Can you suggest a charger? | 15:56 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: There are loads of Nokia fakes out there | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are usually good fakes or even originals | 15:56 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: The product reviews I've been reading suggest otherwise | 15:57 |
| KotCzarny | buy some nokia phone from telco? ;) | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but no, I can't recommend a charger since I usually get them with phones | 15:58 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: you're suggesting that any Nokia charger will do | 15:58 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I need not limit myself to the AC-10E, then | 15:58 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: Do I have to start soldering shit? Because I don't have time for that | 15:59 |
| KotCzarny | rhombus: for slow charging any will do | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically any charger will do as long as it has the (usual) 1000mA+ and it has (needs check) a short between D+ and D- data line of USB | 15:59 |
| KotCzarny | for fast charging, it nees to follow a standard | 15:59 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: is that some sort of standard? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and those without D+- short are useless even for slow charging | 16:00 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: What does it need to support fast charging? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: yes, it's one of 4 competing standards | 16:00 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: What's the standard called? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they don't have names, it's a hige PITA | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huge* | 16:01 |
| KotCzarny | funny as it is, i havent ever seen a charger that wouldnt work with my n900 | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most chargers now follow the Apple standard which has a resistor network on D+/- | 16:01 |
| KotCzarny | ie. my gf's samsing travel charger works as expected and is doing fast charge | 16:01 |
| KotCzarny | *samsung | 16:01 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: so I can get a Samsung travel charger, done | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | um, results may vary | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | better just borrow one | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | before buying | 16:02 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: argh, then why do you make a claim like that? | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | because it works in my case? | 16:02 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: why wouldn't it work in mine? | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | how many chargers did you try? | 16:03 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: I haven't tried any apart from the one that was packaged with the phone | 16:03 |
| rhombus | Because I don't want to wreck the phone, for starters | 16:03 |
| KotCzarny | nah | 16:03 |
| KotCzarny | you wont | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: you best get a charger with USB A receptacle for regular USB cable. Then either check (and if needed fix) D+/- short, or mod a USB cable by opening the outer sleeve carefully and cutting+conecting the green and yellow cable | 16:03 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: can D-short cables be purchased? | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but tricky to find | 16:04 |
| rhombus | I'll need a multimeter to check the cable, yes? | 16:04 |
| KotCzarny | rhombus: do you have access to any phone charger in house/at work? | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 16:04 |
| rhombus | I've been meaning to purchase one anyway | 16:04 |
| KotCzarny | just borrow for a charge or two | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can check with your N900 | 16:04 |
| rhombus | KotCzarny: my wife has one or two | 16:04 |
| rhombus | I'm guessing infobot will tell me how | 16:05 |
| KotCzarny | if it has microusb, just try it | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I was busy to find the cmdline for you but I had to abort that to kicj in here once more to stop shit happen | 16:05 |
| rhombus | yes, I was getting a lot of dangerous advice | 16:05 |
| rhombus | ;-) | 16:05 |
| KotCzarny | you have backup, no? ;) | 16:06 |
| KotCzarny | if so, fire away! | 16:06 |
| rhombus | What I have little of is time, and I've already spent way too much of it on this today already. If you guys are around this evening, I might see you then. I have to get back to work. | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rhombus: cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger | 16:06 |
| rhombus | But thank you all for your tips. Now at least I know why the charging performance on this phone has been modest | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1=D+- short | 16:07 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: it says "1" | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me verify | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, verified | 16:08 |
| rhombus | ok, so the charger can do fast charging? | 16:09 |
| rhombus | DocScrutinizer05: ^ | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it can't (fastcharging means > 1A), it just *claims* it could | 16:09 |
| rhombus | ok | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E it has D+- short | 16:09 |
| rhombus | but I can verify that any other charger i connect at least has D+-short | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it mustn't unless it can provide 1A | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:10 |
| rhombus | so fast charging = must have D+-short | 16:10 |
| rhombus | no D+-short, definitely no fast charging | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and 1A plus | 16:10 |
| rhombus | right | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:10 |
| rhombus | got it | 16:10 |
| buZz | i thought no short == no charging | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 16:10 |
| buZz | at all | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: only 100mA | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it thinks it's a USB host | 16:11 |
| buZz | but not without D- and D+ connected to -something- | 16:11 |
| buZz | if its not connected to anything, it wont charge | 16:11 |
| rhombus | ok, friends, I have to work | 16:11 |
| rhombus | thanks again | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 16:11 |
| rhombus | see you this evening | 16:11 |
| buZz | (aka just V+ and GND) | 16:11 |
| rhombus | o/ | 16:11 |
| buZz | \o | 16:11 |
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| KotCzarny | weird as it is, all ac-2e chargers i find are using barrel plug, not microusb | 16:12 |
| KotCzarny | could it be someone was fiddling with his? | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: iirc the method is: when VBUS then set 100mA, check for D+- short and set 1A if seen, try USB host detection and start ENUM when seen | 16:13 |
| buZz | weird | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ENUM would negotiate up to 500mA then | 16:14 |
| buZz | i see zero charging happen on my selfmade powerbanks | 16:14 |
| buZz | which have D- and D+ just not connected | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | powerbanks are weird, they stop VBUS when no load | 16:14 |
| * buZz points at selfmade | 16:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 16:15 |
| buZz | this one never stops to power the outputs | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry can't speculate | 16:15 |
| buZz | thats ok :P | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could trace what's going on | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to make it more challenging, this whole shit changed somewhere around PR1.2->PR1.3 and then again with Pali's open "BME" implementation | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so odds are when you got powerkernel, no charging at all is what you see | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depending on whether or not that bq27xx.ko and friends are loaded | 16:18 |
| buZz | oh i might actually have powerkernel yeah | 16:18 |
| KotCzarny | doc, can you find microusb based ac-2e charger? | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't even know what that is | 16:19 |
| KotCzarny | just google nokia ac-2e | 16:19 |
| KotCzarny | he has that charger and uses it | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he said the charger says 500mA | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't need toknow more | 16:20 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but all chargers i find use barrel plug | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what? | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never seen any | 16:21 |
| KotCzarny | pity old nokia pages are already nuked | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah wait, you say it's a fake ac-2e with micro-USB instead of barrel plug at cable end? | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possible | 16:22 |
| KotCzarny | ac-2e might be original, just cable changed | 16:22 |
| KotCzarny | ie. some refurb | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 500mA USB chargers are very unusual | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | always have 70mA minimum, now 1000 | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 700mA* | 16:23 |
| KotCzarny | and maybe he was able to charge before, because he wasnt on cssu | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:23 |
| KotCzarny | which means he is going to have flatbat soon | 16:23 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, with 13% SoC | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I advised to not do lots of futile messing to download and install stuff | 16:25 |
| KotCzarny | there is a chance his wife samsung charger would work | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or he just uses PC to charge | 16:25 |
| KotCzarny | shouldnt that warning be added to cssu page? | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which will work just fine unless you installed some kernel modules that make the whole thing bootloop ;-) | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't that get investigated and fixed in CSSU rather? | 16:27 |
| KotCzarny | that's also fine idea | 16:27 |
| KotCzarny | but i guess bme is pali's area of competence | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | add bogus warnings based on a hypothesis... tzzz | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, actually BME is my genuine competence. Pali's domain is his BME replacement implementation | 16:28 |
| KotCzarny | not so bogus, we have seen one sample today ;) | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do we? | 16:28 |
| jonwil | Just about ready to upload a bunch of stuff to cssu-devel (a lot of which I haven't tested and dont know if it works) | 16:28 |
| KotCzarny | how do you explain his almost empty device? | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't even have any data if the thing charged at 100mA or not at all | 16:28 |
| jonwil | which is why I want to check with fmg before I upload some of it just to see if he thinks its OK to upload or not | 16:29 |
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| KotCzarny | kids today, saying the phrase then leaving | 16:30 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN on - no powersave - 200 mA; Backlight on max +150 mA | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you wouldn't know the difference whether it's charging @100mA or not at all. So please don't suggest to add bogus warnings | 16:31 |
| KotCzarny | but note, he claims it was working fine before installing cssu | 16:32 |
| KotCzarny | and i suspect he was actively using it | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather consider how to do proper investigation on your own device | 16:33 |
| KotCzarny | i have no fake chargers | 16:33 |
| KotCzarny | no bad cables either | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then don't do fuzzy conclusions | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when I hear "I suspect... (it worked...)" I always answer "I suspect there are other explanations too" | 16:35 |
| KotCzarny | got any? | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see above | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not wasting my time on suspecting a likely usage pattern a few years ago, or whatever | 16:37 |
| KotCzarny | usage pattern 'device left overnight with wifi on and charger connected' | 16:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks | 16:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read what I said: associated to AP (very low WLAN power consumption) and with dim backlight | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now please stop that | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't even know if power saving setting has chaged during reflash and upgrade | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you don't know if backlight on or off | 16:41 |
| KotCzarny | he checked, it's at 'max' | 16:41 |
| KotCzarny | (wifi power save) | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically we know nothing at all | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, wasting my time | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | before: worked with unknown usage pattern (most likely WLAN turned off and backlight turned off) allegedly 3 days standby. NOW: reflashed and upgraded to CSSU, on a supposedly broken charger overnight, then in use for at least 6h and now at 13% charge -- "DAMN there is something wrong!!! We should add a warning that CSSU has a bug in charging" ... No Way! | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please google "powersupply foldback" for a story about how a 500mA charger could reduce voltage to a point where only a few mA would flow, when overload detected. Overload is possibly under very specific conditions when you attach a 500mA charger to N900 | 16:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | overload *not* likely with >>[2017-10-16 Mon 13:49:18] <rhombus> I routinely did partial charges (from say 50 - 60 % to 100 %) in the evenings or over night<< | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as a re: >>[2017-10-16 Mon 15:36:26] <KotCzarny> got any?<< | 16:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/15528693 | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | seems device is a tad busy immediately after unplugging charger | 18:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ...or the calculated corrected remaining energy in cell gets adjusted by bq27200 chip due to battery chemistry and temperature settling | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or it's just a random factor from IRC traffic to xchat ;-) | 18:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, I know (maybe). It's probably nased on CACT x *current* VOLT and the latter changes with load thanks to battery ESR | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | based* | 18:49 |
| KotCzarny | https://crocs.fi.muni.cz/public/papers/rsa_ccs17 | 18:55 |
| KotCzarny | is there a chance it helps break some maemo's core keys? | 18:55 |
| KotCzarny | ie. repo keys? | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what for? | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mv RSOC CSOC mA NAC CACD CACT TTF TTE TEMP | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 17:50 4115 96 96 -41 1098 1098 1098 65535 1606 25 NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:0 | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 17:55 4131 96 96 -13 1095 1095 1095 65535 4882 25 NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:0 #1098-1095=3mAh, per 5min= 36mA avg | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 18:00 4131 96 96 -14 1094 1094 1094 65535 4496 24 NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:0 #1095-1094=1mAh, per 5min= 12mA avg | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: I doubt Nokia generated their signing keys for repos by using >>a software library adopted in cryptographic smartcards, security tokens and other secure hardware chips manufactured by Infineon Technologies AG<< | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it would be worth lottle to break their signature | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | little, even | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless, for Harmattan maybe | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/25948187 shows how the more on-spot measurements for mA and derived values like TTE reproduce noise from random system activity, while the delta-NAC is relatively steady (though corse granularity) at ~3mAh/5min aka 36mA | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is idle device with WLAN on PSM-max with AP supporting that, locked, with xchat running in background | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 1098 - 1080 NAC = 18mAh per 30min = 36mAh/h :-D | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/737649 | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | avrage over all spot readputs of current (8 points): 37mA | 19:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/9666482 54 * 50 / 90 = 36 | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-)) | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/50/60/ | 20:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/228519 hmm lol, hope we can get a wpa-supplicant update soon | 21:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, maemo doesn't use wpa-supplicant, eh? | 21:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | let's see if TI conmes up with a new firmware for the WL12xx then. The benefits of non-FSF-RYF compliant firmware that does _nit_ live in a ROM in WLAN chip | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _not_, even | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-10-16 Mon 21:23:44] <DocScrutinizer05> is the communication "fixed" when only one of both has the patches? [2017-10-16 Mon 21:24:05] <fromport> DocScrutinizer05: yes <fromport> it is a man in the middle attack and you have to convince both sides to re-use a previous key. <fromport> if one of the sides refuses, you are already safe | 22:47 |
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| sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: that's the vuln i showed yesterday ... i didn't quite understand why you said it's a good thing | 22:59 |
| sicelo | n900 doesn't use wpa_supplicant .. but i won't be surprised if eapd (what we use) is just as vuln. someone's got to test | 23:01 |
| sicelo | from what i understood, it is not really a firmware issue, so we don't necessarily need wl12xx. | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sicelo: yes | 23:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's unclear where the WPA protocol gets handled on maemo | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to me, at least | 23:10 |
| sicelo | eapd | 23:17 |
| sicelo | you can use wpa_supplicant though, if you first stop wlancond, and can live with having some applications get confused about connectivity state | 23:18 |
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