IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2017-10-16

DocScrutinizer05didn't you do already?00:00
rhombusinstall BM?00:00
rhombusno :/00:00
rhombusI didn't think I needed it just now00:00
rhombusstart HAM00:01
rhombusstarted HAM00:01
DocScrutinizer05if not, then yes. start up phone, and click the link in
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure BM installs cleanly via HAM00:02
rhombusso I do it via the browser then00:02
DocScrutinizer05gas dependency issues from fuckedup catalogs00:02
DocScrutinizer05you got a uSD?00:03
DocScrutinizer05easier to save the BM file to uSD00:04
rhombushuh? Server not found error?00:04
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rhombusnow it works, hang on00:05
rhombusok, I clicked BM.install and now suddenly HAM is in the foreground00:06
rhombusis that normal?00:06
DocScrutinizer05meanwhile, you may want to use the manager of choice on your gentoo to find and install libusb-0.1.so00:06
DocScrutinizer0532 bit!!00:06
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Doesn't lazyflasher include a library?00:07
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: There's a libusb lib in the directory00:07
DocScrutinizer05it does, but might not work ion your system. It's a *really nasty* bitch00:07
DocScrutinizer05botch too00:07
DocScrutinizer05you may try, but no guarantee00:08
DocScrutinizer05defer it!00:08
DocScrutinizer05err postpone00:08
DocScrutinizer05maybe it works00:08
rhombusthe libusb update, you mean?00:09
rhombusah, ok00:09
rhombusBM is downloading00:09
rhombusA zillion WARNING!s00:09
DocScrutinizer05if it installed, you reboot the phone with kbd slider opened00:09
DocScrutinizer05ignore and nod off00:10
rhombusooh, set new root password00:10
rhombusI didn't know I had an old root password00:10
rhombusis it asking me for the system root password?00:11
rhombuswhat has that got to do with BM?00:11
DocScrutinizer05prolly installs sshd00:11
rhombusnow I see a giant README00:12
DocScrutinizer05BM has a virtual machine of sorts, with useful tools like ssh and whatnot00:12
DocScrutinizer05it's way more than just a backup tool00:13
rhombusok, so I turned off the phone00:13
rhombusslider is open00:13
rhombusnow I wait 20-30 s00:13
rhombusand restart00:13
rhombuswith slider open00:13
rhombus"Loading BOOT MENU"00:13
rhombustotally retro00:13
rhombusthis is like the screen on a 28600:14
DocScrutinizer05it actually is, also technically00:14
DocScrutinizer05save all to uSD, no compression00:15
rhombusso now I choose option b, right? "Create a backup"00:15
DocScrutinizer05yes, it writes to framebuffer char by char using a tool to draw chars there00:15
DocScrutinizer05yes, sounds good00:15
DocScrutinizer05you might want to attach USB charger if at hand00:16
rhombuswhat? it doesn't see my µSD!00:16
DocScrutinizer05that's weird00:16
rhombusm) Backup to internal eMMC, MyDocs00:16
DocScrutinizer05you closed battery lif?00:16
rhombusah... no :(00:16
rhombusdoes that matter?00:17
DocScrutinizer05sire :-)00:17
DocScrutinizer05uSd gets umounted on battery lid open00:17
DocScrutinizer05close lid and reboot00:18
DocScrutinizer05sorry, afaik no way to restart bootmenu00:18
DocScrutinizer05you may try though if you find a key for it00:18
rhombusand here I thought I was being clever00:18
DocScrutinizer05N900 has lots of "funny" surprising details like that00:19
siceloit can reboot though (BM)00:19
rhombusI rebooted00:20
rhombusit was very fast00:20
rhombusI noticed the arrow keys are backwards00:20
rhombusok, I...00:20
rhombusI think I did the backup00:20
rhombusis it that fast?00:20
rhombusI just pressed s, and now I have the same screen again00:20
rhombusah, ok00:21
rhombusnow it's running00:21
rhombusGuys, this is amazing00:21
DocScrutinizer05this will take a while00:21
rhombusI got this phone for 35 euros and I'm really starting to love it00:21
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DocScrutinizer05iir ca 10 minutes00:21
rhombusyou probably want to go to bed00:21
DocScrutinizer05hah, I wish I could00:22
DocScrutinizer05meanwhile, test lazyflashing:  run flash-it-all.sh00:23
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rhombusI ran it00:23
DocScrutinizer05it will tell you if the lob works or not00:23
rhombushang on, I'll pastebin the output00:24
DocScrutinizer05dang, old crap00:25
rhombusbackup completed successfully00:25
rhombusnow what?00:25
* rhombus is a question machine00:26
DocScrutinizer05this is fine00:26
rhombusDo I reboot the phone normally now?00:26
DocScrutinizer05now you wait until your backup finished, then you ... follow the instructions00:27
rhombuswhich ones? In backup menu?00:27
DocScrutinizer05>> please remove battery from N900, then plug N900 to a primary (non-hub) USB jack of this PC. Then insert battery which should result in this script continuing... <<00:27
rhombusOh, those00:27
rhombusok, so the output I pastebinned looked ok?00:28
rhombusIs it safe to just try this? The phone is off, I've removed the battery, and the USB cable is connected00:29
rhombusThere are errors like: modprobe: FATAL: Module cdc_phonet not found.00:29
rhombuschecksum errors...00:29
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Ok, I set LANG=C and the integrity checks succeeded00:31
DocScrutinizer05ignore all that, the pasted log is 100% fine00:32
DocScrutinizer05#38  image files found and checked OK for integrity.00:32
DocScrutinizer05#17  no local file RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or checksum incorrect. Trying to fetch...00:33
DocScrutinizer05#20 resuming...00:33
DocScrutinizer05#23 RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: OK00:34
rhombusah, ok00:34
rhombusSo now I just insert the battery00:34
DocScrutinizer05yes, after plugging it to USB00:34
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rhombusshit is happening00:35
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rhombusErasing CMT - scary00:36
rhombusProgramming CMT - hopeful00:36
jonwilIt may seem scary but its perfectly safe00:36
jonwilI did a flash yesterday on my own N900 and it worked just fine00:37
* DocScrutinizer05 is rather fond of lazyflashing ;-P00:37
rhombusImage(s) flashed successfully in 29.262 s (8746 kB/s)!00:37
rhombusinitializing system00:38
DocScrutinizer05actually almost proud of it00:38
rhombusyellow LED00:38
DocScrutinizer05follow the instructions ;-)00:39
rhombusso far only Blinkenlights00:39
jonwilIts pretty much impossible to kill a N900 through software alone00:39
rhombusMy phone has turned into KITT00:39
rhombusjonwil: sounds like smart design to me00:39
jonwilIf its doing the scrolling dots, that's a good thing00:39
rhombusAnd the pedophile is back!00:40
jonwilYeah it should play the Nokia hands animation00:40
rhombus"Knight Rider"00:40
DocScrutinizer05ok, now proceed as tersely listed in first few lines of ~jrtools00:41
DocScrutinizer05just first let it boot all the way to desktop00:41
rhombuswhoops, I pressed First Steps00:41
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is
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rhombusDocScrutinizer05: So now I open the internal browser and go to the recommended.install URL?00:42
DocScrutinizer05 and
DocScrutinizer05in CSSU first thing recommended is to install VM (again :-D )00:43
DocScrutinizer05don't do "Additional Repositories" for now!00:44
rhombusok, it's starting HAM00:45
rhombusI fat fingered stop, but I don't think it took00:46
rhombushow do I know it worked?00:46
DocScrutinizer05check catalogs00:46
rhombusI see the HAM main screen again00:46
rhombuswhat should I see?00:46
DocScrutinizer05disable the Nokia & OVI broken ones00:47
rhombusI'm trying again00:47
DocScrutinizer05check that replacements (muarf) are in place00:47
DocScrutinizer05delete duplicate catalogs00:47
rhombusok, no duplicates00:48
rhombusold Nokia cats deactivated00:48
DocScrutinizer05run "update catalogs" OWTTE from menu00:48
DocScrutinizer05though it should do that automatically as soon as you leave the catalogs dialog00:49
rhombusThis CSSU install seems more involved, do I have to do this now?00:49
DocScrutinizer05and it's not really involved, just exact instructions00:50
DocScrutinizer05actually it's just two clicks00:50
DocScrutinizer05pus BM install00:50
rhombusI'm installing BM again00:50
rhombus"installation being prepared. please wait"00:51
DocScrutinizer05btw thanks for testing and verifying libusb botch working on gentoo :-D00:52
rhombusNo worries :P00:52
DocScrutinizer05gave me quite a few headaches pondering if I really should try such terrible hack at all00:53
DocScrutinizer05but hey, seems to work00:53
DocScrutinizer05in CSSU don't miss on the second step!00:54
rhombusthis seems slower than the last time00:54
rhombusI'm still installing BM00:54
DocScrutinizer05it's clearly explained in instructions, just follow those verbatim00:54
rhombusok, progress bar movement00:54
DocScrutinizer05I suggest CSSU-testing00:55
rhombusis that a catalog?00:55
rhombusor a version of CSSU?00:56
rhombusoh, I get it00:56
DocScrutinizer05no, one of two obe-click options on CSSU webpage00:56
rhombusok, BM installed00:56
rhombusdo I have to do another backup now?00:56
DocScrutinizer05not really00:56
rhombuswhat a relief00:56
DocScrutinizer05you should do a backup after you restored the standard backup and rootsh etc00:57
DocScrutinizer05reflashing rootfs and installing BM then restoring a backup is way easier than the whole repo fixing and rootsh installation and whatnot else00:58
DocScrutinizer05in case you need it to recover a fsckup device00:59
rhombuswill my GPS work after all this is done?00:59
DocScrutinizer05particularly when you insert a SIM, which helps a lot with GPS00:59
rhombusWhy is that?01:00
infobotRRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
rhombusah, right, I'd heard about that01:00
rhombusbut that's not really GPS :)01:00
infobotrumour has it, u-tdoa is
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: ok, where is the Community SSU icon?01:01
DocScrutinizer05well, part of RRLP is a control layer service similar to SUPL01:01
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: hm?01:02
DocScrutinizer05for CSSU step2 or for starting CSSU?01:02
rhombusOnce this is completed, close HAM and go into the applications menu. Tap the Community SSU icon.01:02
rhombusStep 7 :)01:02
DocScrutinizer05yeah 2 aja 701:02
rhombusIs the app menu where all the apps are? :)01:03
rhombusI don't see a Community SSU icon01:03
DocScrutinizer05it should be there in applications menu. *sometimes* the system doesn't update the menu, then ist's probably easiest to reboot. Though... I didn't do CSSU install since ages, so maybe we should ask Pali01:04
DocScrutinizer05Pali: does CSSU now autstart "step 7: Once this is completed, close HAM and go into the applications menu. Tap the Community SSU icon. "?01:04
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: you're aware you can scroll the app menu?01:05
PaliCSSU should do it, but do not know if stable, testing or only devel01:05
DocScrutinizer05Pali: so we urgentrly need to fix the instructions01:06
rhombusSo should I reboot?01:06
DocScrutinizer05actually I'm at the limit of my solid knowledge here01:06
DocScrutinizer05Pali: how would user check if step-7 got accomlished?01:07
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: did HAM install a lot of package updates already?01:08
rhombusDidn't seem like it01:08
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: how can I check?01:09
jonwilYou can check in settings app01:09
jonwilIf CSSU is installed there will be a new icon for "about CSSU"01:09
jonwilor something similar01:09
PaliDocScrutinizer05: 7. Once this is completed, close HAM and you should see in few seconds new terminal window. If not tap the Community SSU icon in the application menu. In terminal window will run through a series of scripts to ensure the community repository are set up.01:09
jonwilDon't have my N900 next to me to check exactly what its called01:09
rhombusjonwil: nope, don't see it. In which section would it be?01:10
jonwilSounds like you dont have CSSU yet01:10
jonwiland need to go open the icon01:10
rhombusPali: DocScrutinizer05 ok, the clearly something didn't work here01:10
DocScrutinizer05Pali: sounds good01:10
rhombusjonwil: there is no icon01:10
jonwilNo "Community SSU Enabler" icon in app list?01:11
jonwileven when you scroll down?01:11
jonwilThat seems strange01:11
rhombusjonwil: no01:11
Palido you have installed needed package?01:11
Palithat cssu enabler package01:11
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^ - reboot?01:11
rhombusI followed Step 5 in the instructions, HAM started, it did some stuff, then it was done and I closed HAM as per the instructions01:11
DocScrutinizer05Pali: he followed instructions on CSSU01:11
Palireboot is needed after everything is installed, reboot is not needed between 6 and 7 step01:11
jonwilrhombus: Do you see a yellow exclamation mark in the status menu at the top of the screen?01:12
Paliso try reboot and then open HAM and check for updates01:12
Pali... and wait and wait01:12
Palisometimes also wait for 20 minutes...01:12
Paliuntil update check for update procedure finish01:12
DocScrutinizer05we already established that :-)01:12
DocScrutinizer05will change with speedyham :-)01:13
rhombusIs this something I can proceed with tomorrow?01:13
DocScrutinizer05I'd rather suggest to finish it now01:13
rhombusjonwil: no, no yellow exclamation mark01:13
DocScrutinizer05it's a very messy state right now01:13
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: 20 min is a long time01:13
DocScrutinizer05it didn't take 20 min for you01:13
DocScrutinizer05it's just the catalog updates01:14
DocScrutinizer05in HAM01:14
DocScrutinizer05Pali: my guess is: it tried automatic step7, failed, and thus didn't run postinst that has hildon-appicons-update or whatever the name01:15
Palithen there must be icon in menu01:15
DocScrutinizer05yes, after hildon home(?) updated its cache01:16
Paliicon in menu is missing only if: 1) enabler package is not installed or 2) cssu metapackage is installed (correctly with all dependences)01:16
Paliif 1) is truth, then install CSSU again via wiki page01:16
DocScrutinizer05there's that friggin cacje, so what you see isn't always what's installed01:16
Paliif 2) is truth then in settings dialog in about cssu must be cssu version string01:17
rhombusok, rebooted, started HAM and checking for updates01:17
DocScrutinizer05check for CSSU enabler icon!01:17
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: where?01:18
Paliin menu01:18
DocScrutinizer05in app menu01:18
rhombusI did, there was nothing there01:18
DocScrutinizer05somebody fucked up CSSU enabler01:18
rhombus"No updates available"01:19
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^ how to fix that now?01:19
Paliinstall CSSU again01:19
Palivia wiki page01:19
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: unrelated, no?01:20
jonwilWhat do you mean unrelated?01:20
rhombusnow the wiki page won't load01:21
DocScrutinizer05is this helping rhombus to get CSSU installed01:21
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: loads fine gere01:21
rhombusIt loads fine on my PC, it does not load on my N90001:22
rhombusand I have an active WLAN connection01:22
DocScrutinizer05here* - I hope it's not a problem with maemo system01:22
Palisometimes browser stuck01:22
Paliclose and open it again01:22
Palior maybe wifi connection is a problem?01:22
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: do other arbitrary sites load?01:22
Palin900 has only 2.4GHz b/g wifi01:23
rhombusclosing the browser01:23
rhombusrestarted browser -- now it loads01:23
rhombusman, this is flaky01:23
Palibut today is more common 2.4GHz n or 5GHz01:23
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: you're unmidst a massive system reconfiguration01:24
rhombuswent to testing link, HAM is starting01:24
Paliso sometimes is hard to debug problems with wifi, which is working fine on 802.11n or 5GHz, but on on 802.11g on 2.4GHz01:24
rhombusprogress bar "preparing installation"01:24
rhombus... it did the same thing01:24
Paliwhat exactly?01:24
rhombuszoomed through three progress bars, now I see the HAM main screen and nothing is happening01:25
Paliham is sometimes slow and need to wait 5 minutes01:25
Palionce you clicked on install icon on WIKI page01:25
Paliyou should get info from HAM that you are going to install 3rd package01:26
rhombusPali: but it's not doing anything anymore... it shows me the main screen and is doing nothing01:26
Paliand you need to click on some accept button01:26
rhombusno and no01:26
rhombusThere is no accept button, no query screen, nothing01:26
rhombusjust the standard three HAM icons01:26
Paliso wait in ham screen01:26
Paliit is doing some background task01:26
DocScrutinizer05we *need* ntifications there01:27
PaliI saw ham very slow and once I waited 20 minutes01:27
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: it would be helpful01:27
PaliDocScrutinizer05: we can deliver update for HAM just in CSSU01:27
Paliso notification there would be after installing CSSU...01:27
Palibut that is too late01:27
DocScrutinizer05nah, wrap them around HAM01:27
rhombusIf there's no feedback, how is the user supposed to know whether the process is done or not?01:27
Paliblame Nokia :-(01:27
rhombusok -- finally! Now I get the install screen!01:28
DocScrutinizer05open the notifier before starting HAM01:28
Palifreemangordon, already fixed that slow HAM... and update is part of CSSU01:28
rhombus1 program successfully installed01:28
rhombuschecking updates01:28
jonwilSo yeah we need to figure out who has access to CSSU-devel and CSSU-testing and figure out a way forward (I can do the work to upload things for it but we need whoever has all the needed access to make decisions about what should happen)01:29
Paliwait until HAM finished everything and after that close it01:29
jonwilI have no idea who has access to CSSU-devel and CSSU-testing01:29
Palijonwil: that is question for merlin199101:29
Palihe is admin of cssu01:30
Paliand iirc has all rights for cssu repos01:30
rhombusok, now I see the HAM main screen AND I have a flashing yellow exclamation mark in the status bar01:32
rhombusCan I close HAM now?01:32
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^01:32
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: chack app menu01:32
DocScrutinizer05don't close HAM01:33
Palicheck if you have cssu icon in menu01:33
rhombusYes, I see it01:33
Paliif you have it, then close HAm and open that icon01:33
rhombusWhat's the yellow exclamation mark about?01:33
DocScrutinizer05pending update01:33
rhombusOpened enabler01:34
rhombusshit is now happening01:34
rhombusholy shit01:34
rhombusserious shit01:34
rhombuslots of shit01:34
DocScrutinizer05aka "The Real Thing" :-)01:34
rhombusand now it's waiting for headers, oh my god!01:34
Paliit is just normal apt-get update01:35
rhombus94%... come on come on come on come on01:35
Paliyou have not seen debian yet?01:35
rhombuswhat is this apt-get01:35
rhombusI last tried Debian in 199901:35
DocScrutinizer05the real installer01:35
rhombusthat was enough01:35
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, apt is a stuild bot, said by Cotulla01:35
infobotrumour has it, apt-get is the best thing the world ever had it's highly addictive and much different than dselect, it's a womans desire, ribbed for her pleasure, a superb text-adventure for tarzeau, now with Super Cow Powers, the kdeinit of package managers, overrated and overused, see, or apt-get install synaptic for a gui client, or the shiznit, or see apt-cache, or ask me ...01:36
rhombussorry, for a Gentoo user for 15 years, that rings hollow01:36
rhombusmore shit is happening01:36
rhombusHAM is loading again01:36
Paliyes, HAM is now started again and would update rest of system01:37
rhombusAnd this will take 47 min, I take it?01:37
Paliso just wait until it show you screen for installing/updating packages01:37
jonwilHow long it takes depends on (among other things) the download time to download everything it needs to pull01:37
DocScrutinizer05wich in turn depends on your internet01:38
Paliand number of all packages in all Maemo repositories...01:38
rhombusis it safe to plug the phone in to charge it? The battery is very low01:38
Paliplug charger01:38
jonwilYes its safe to plug it into the wall charger while its flashing01:38
jonwilI mean updating01:39
jonwilnot flashing01:39
DocScrutinizer05WALL CHARGER, not PC01:39
Paliit is *unsafe* to not use charger when updating :-)01:39
Palinow all actions are done via HAM01:39
rhombusOk, now I see a screen with a package list and a button "Update all"01:40
Paliyes, update all01:40
PaliI hope you do not need me anymore, so I'm going offline01:40
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ta & n801:40
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rhombusPali: thank you01:40
rhombusPali: I also hope I do not need you anymore :)01:40
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DocScrutinizer05we really should clone this pal01:42
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: once HAM is done (you prolly can leav device on charger over night) you should check cataligs once more, making sure there are no duplicates and no maemo-devel or -testing enabled, then do another BM backup and start having fun, maybe by restoring your backup of contacts etc01:45
rhombusok... so this can run overnight?01:46
DocScrutinizer05I'd think so. Make sure it's charging01:46
DocScrutinizer05I.E look at the system try battery icon if it's animated01:47
rhombusit did notify me it was charging when I plugged it in01:47
rhombusThank you for your help Jörg01:48
DocScrutinizer05locking scren with side slider switch you should see amber flashing LED01:48
rhombusYes, I see that01:48
rhombusThat turned out to be quite a bit less simple than it appeared, I don't think that would have gone very well if I had tried it alone01:49
rhombusIt certainly would have taken about five times as long01:49
DocScrutinizer05so tomorrow you will find a charged battery (green LED) and either HAM finished update or it opened a requester with warning to nod off01:49
* DocScrutinizer05 waves and heads over to TV01:51
DocScrutinizer05one last generic advice for today: *always* do a backup before doing any restory of old backups, so you don't overwrite valuable data by restoring the backup01:55
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure how you mean that01:57
DocScrutinizer05immediately before doing a restore, make a new backup of the old (possibly broken or incomplete) state of your system01:58
rhombusjust in case?01:58
rhombus(I notice the clock has stopped -- is that expected behaviour?)01:58
rhombusThe update list has cleared and the progress bar is full01:59
DocScrutinizer05umm, not really01:59
rhombusDevice is being restarted01:59
rhombusA tone!01:59
DocScrutinizer05clock might stop until some event happens that tells clock that somebody is looking at it01:59
rhombusNokia logo...02:00
DocScrutinizer05no audio?02:00
rhombus"Knight Rider - A shadowy flight into the world of a man... who does not exist"02:00
rhombusClock works again02:00
rhombus"Operating system updated successfully"02:00
rhombusSorry, my question of the night02:01
rhombusNow what?02:01
rhombusCatalog check in HAM?02:01
DocScrutinizer05yes, then backup02:01
rhombuswith BM02:01
DocScrutinizer05wait, then rootsh02:01
rhombusno duplicate catalog02:02
DocScrutinizer05then BM backup02:02
rhombusInstall rootsh first, then backup02:02
DocScrutinizer05yes, and maybe you also want to install sshd?02:03
DocScrutinizer05I couldn't live without logging in to system via WiFi&ssh02:03
rhombusSure, why not02:04
DocScrutinizer05HAM ->openssh   iirc02:04
rhombusInstalling BM does that automatically though02:04
rhombusas a dependency02:04
DocScrutinizer05no, only for BM VM02:04
DocScrutinizer05not sure02:05
DocScrutinizer05if it's already installed then you won't find it in HAM "install" / "all"02:05
rhombusinstalling OpenSSH client and server02:05
DocScrutinizer05I also install bash right away, can't stand that messybox02:06
DocScrutinizer05also you want to take care of "cherry", see ~jrtools02:07
rhombusyeah, I saw that, but didn't understand what it was about02:07
rhombusI have to delete file?02:07
DocScrutinizer05it's about a compulsory SMS the system sends to Nokia02:07
rhombuswhat is the difference between bash4 and bash4-opt?02:07
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infobot#maemo pkg is probably
DocScrutinizer05oooh, optified
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"02:09
rhombusso I want this, yes?02:09
DocScrutinizer05though i never bothered, my root still has a plenty 30 or 40MB free02:10
rhombusok, bash4-opt, openssh client and server, and rootsh are installed. Now I do the backup with BM02:10
DocScrutinizer05I suggest to write it to uSD02:11
rhombusright, as I did the last time02:11
DocScrutinizer05this is considered safe02:11
DocScrutinizer05you can't reflash uSD02:11
rhombuswhoops, the phone spontaneously restarted after I shut it off02:12
DocScrutinizer05hah, you were busy and pressed button twice02:12
DocScrutinizer05or it had a hiccup, happens sometimes02:12
rhombusWell, not intentionally02:12
DocScrutinizer05or you have charger plugged in :-D02:13
rhombusok, now it is "off", I think02:13
rhombusshould I do this backup without the charger connected?02:13
DocScrutinizer05doesn't mater really02:13
DocScrutinizer05I'd recommend to keep it charging02:13
DocScrutinizer05also iirc BM screen backlight is brighter when on charger02:14
DocScrutinizer05in the normal version, I patched mine02:14
* DocScrutinizer05 is old and needs bright screen always02:15
rhombusso do I02:15
rhombuswhoops, forgot to install BM02:16
DocScrutinizer05don't know02:17
infobotit has been said that backupmenu is, or one-click install handling dependency issues:
DocScrutinizer05check catalogs after doing so02:18
rhombusOh right, I have to install it with the URL02:18
DocScrutinizer05make sure you booted with slider open though02:18
DocScrutinizer05might just not have noticed the open slider02:18
rhombusI did, it didn't work02:18
DocScrutinizer05wait a second02:18
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -la /boo*02:19
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16648 2015-06-27 13:05 /bootmenu.sh02:19
DocScrutinizer05you don't have that when BM not installed02:20
rhombusI'm installing it now02:20
rhombusI must have missed that step02:20
DocScrutinizer05don't miss checking your catalogs after installing BM,it enables a few nasty ones02:21
DocScrutinizer05or at least duoblettes02:22
DocScrutinizer05and *each* catalog takes its time (minutes) in HAM ipdate02:22
DocScrutinizer05maemo-devel even can break your system when running "update all" in HAM while it's enabled02:23
rhombusWARNING WARNING ============ WARNING etc.02:23
DocScrutinizer05sure, much of that is from I2Ctools package and genuine upstream02:24
DocScrutinizer05we didn't remove those warnings02:24
DocScrutinizer05though they might not really apply to N90002:24
rhombusok, in BM02:25
rhombusbacking up02:26
DocScrutinizer05does it give an ETA?02:26
DocScrutinizer05ooh, and is your clock correct? it's not mandatory but useful especially in backups02:27
rhombusIt was off by about 12 min (fast)02:27
DocScrutinizer05that doesn't matter :-)  (except for GPS)02:27
rhombusRootFS backup complete02:28
DocScrutinizer05yes, sonds weird but verified02:28
DocScrutinizer05OPTfs how much?02:29
rhombusI don't have much stuff02:30
rhombuswouldn't that explain it?02:30
DocScrutinizer05restore contacts et al02:30
rhombusnow I can reboot and restore my contacts, right?02:30
rhombushere comes the pedo again02:31
DocScrutinizer05pedo? aaah02:31
DocScrutinizer05hehe get DONTPANIC! and again, no sound with shakehands videio?02:32
DocScrutinizer05that would be slightly worrisome02:32
rhombusno, there was sound02:33
DocScrutinizer05aah ok02:33
rhombusHow do I get my backup back onto the phone?02:33
DocScrutinizer05backup app: restore02:33
rhombusbut the backup is gone from the phone02:33
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I use konqueror and sftp://IroN900 for that02:34
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DocScrutinizer05you may use scp or... ass rage mode02:34
rhombuscan't I just copy the folder onto my Nokia N900 mount?02:35
DocScrutinizer05or your uSD02:35
rhombusman, I hope my Notes got backed up!02:36
rhombusoh no02:36
DocScrutinizer05sure, you can plug it into PC USB, enable assrage, copy file to destination it been before (the destination you also find your backup you will just have done according to my recommendation), then UNPLUG USB(!!!) to stop assrage and make volume available to system again, then restore02:37
DocScrutinizer05or worst case you find all the data in BM's tarball you did as vackup before you reflashed02:38
rhombusthe program list is part of the backup02:39
rhombusI don't want to restore that, do I?02:39
DocScrutinizer05it's in *opt*.tgz in (/home)/user/...*02:39
DocScrutinizer05no, you don't02:39
rhombusand settings?02:39
DocScrutinizer05well, you might want to restore them, or not. Depends on ,,, what you want02:40
DocScrutinizer05they include stuff like system name, WLAN settings etc iirc02:40
rhombusOh -- okay, I want those02:41
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DocScrutinizer05did you do a backup first?02:41
rhombusbut I just did a backup02:41
rhombushow many backups do i have to do?02:42
DocScrutinizer05ok, since the restore will nuke recent stuff02:42
rhombusI haven't done anything except install packages, and after that I did a backup with BM02:42
rhombusI interrupted the restore now02:42
DocScrutinizer05B; != hildon backup02:43
rhombusyeah, but why do I need to do a Hildon backup on a system that is empty? I don't get it02:43
DocScrutinizer05it's possible but comlicated to extract just settings, or just contacts from a BM backup02:43
rhombusBut... the phone was just flashed02:44
rhombusthere was nothing on it02:44
DocScrutinizer05just for good measure, since it's always done that way ;-)02:44
rhombusok, well, this time it's just superfluous02:45
rhombusI'm doing another restore, the interruption meant the settings were lost02:45
DocScrutinizer05e.g. I assume you already got a new WLAN config, that might not be identical (though you prolly know it is) to the one in backup02:45
rhombusit should be the same02:46
rhombusbut I also had other WLAN configs (work, etc.) that I would like to get back02:46
DocScrutinizer05not sure about root passwords, they are most likely not even saved02:46
rhombusok, the settings worked, the phone is silent02:46
rhombusand my contacts are back02:46
DocScrutinizer05sire, go ahead. Just keep it in mind02:46
rhombusand all my messages02:47
DocScrutinizer05next time you might want to do a backup first ;-)02:47
rhombusmy notes are gone though02:47
rhombusThe N900 notes app02:48
DocScrutinizer05is it installed?02:48
DocScrutinizer05hmm, weird02:48
DocScrutinizer05it's a stock app, no?02:48
rhombusthe notes are saved in the documents directory though, I don't think the Hildon backup tool saves that (which is stupid if you ask me)02:48
rhombusok, I will have to get them from the BM backup02:49
rhombusbut that can wait until tomorrow02:49
DocScrutinizer05BM is a plain tarball02:49
rhombusbut I want to do one more thing and test the GPS02:49
DocScrutinizer05fix cherry first02:50
rhombusoh right02:50
DocScrutinizer05it's a oneliner02:50
infobotjrtools is probably
DocScrutinizer05touch /home/user/.cherry_state02:50
DocScrutinizer05saves you a SMS fee if nothing else02:51
DocScrutinizer05though, I wonder if CSSU already fixed that02:51
rhombusShould there be a Bash terminal app if I have installed bash?02:51
DocScrutinizer05that's what I do02:52
DocScrutinizer05chsh is dangerous02:52
rhombusIs that the same as X Terminal?02:53
DocScrutinizer05others reported success, but there were also bootloops when changing user's shell (NOT root's shell, weird enough)02:53
rhombusWhere do I change the settings for it?02:54
DocScrutinizer05so my messybox hustory hasonly one command: bash02:54
rhombusoh, you just enter 'bash' as a command02:54
DocScrutinizer05you may do `chsh bash` or the like, but... needs more love to get the syntax etc right, and as stated it's dangerous02:55
rhombusok, I touched the .cherry_state file02:55
rhombusis that all I have to do?02:55
DocScrutinizer05not sure, prolly yes02:55
infobotwell, cherry is
DocScrutinizer05imsert SIM, make sure your clock is (or gets) set correctly, test GPS.02:56
DocScrutinizer05there's a liblocation-test app somewhere, pretty useful02:57
rhombusok, sim is in, restarting02:59
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DocScrutinizer05root; cd /tmp; wget && dpkg -i location-test-gui/location-test-gui_0.93-1+0m5_armel.deb03:01
DocScrutinizer05or you add the SDK repo to HAM03:02
rhombusthat would be easier, wouldn't it?03:02
rhombushow do I add the SDK repo to HAM?03:04
DocScrutinizer05good question03:05
DocScrutinizer05analog to
DocScrutinizer05you can edit catalogs in HAM03:07
DocScrutinizer05chnage the text accordingly03:08
rhombusdo I still put "fremantle" in the Distribution field?03:10
rhombusso then I go to All and search for location-test-gui, yes?03:12
rhombusthe URL you gave me is old03:12
DocScrutinizer05If the config doesn't work, HAM will bitch about "broken catalog"03:12
rhombusas it did03:12
rhombusit didn't work, I get a 301 error, "moved permanently"03:13
DocScrutinizer05as info source, not to copy the file03:17
DocScrutinizer05actually you won't have that file, it's from my enable-catalogs "tool"03:17
rhombusI don't even have enable-catalogs :)03:18
rhombuschecking updates03:19
rhombuswhat does it do?03:20
rhombusinstalling location-test-gui03:21
rhombuswa wa03:23
DocScrutinizer05look into it, it comes with --help03:23
rhombusNo satellites03:23
rhombusIt still has the location of some previous owner of the devices03:23
rhombusIt still has the location of some previous owner of the device03:23
rhombusI think that's enough for tonight03:24
rhombusI will have to revisit this some other time03:24
DocScrutinizer05well, you need to be outside for it seeing satellites03:24
rhombusI was hoping that my proximity to the window would help, but you are right of coruse03:24
rhombusmy satnav device doesn't work in the apartment either :)03:24
rhombusI will try it tomorrow on the train platform :)03:25
rhombusThanks Jörg for all your patience and help03:25
rhombusI still have a lot to learn03:25
rhombusoh - wait, it sees two sats now03:25
DocScrutinizer05yeah, it's not all bad03:26
rhombusbut I won't wait for it to lock, I can try it tomorrow03:26
rhombusthanks again, I'll be around :)03:26
DocScrutinizer05I usually get a fix within 20s when I really fold the device to the window03:26
rhombusthen it should work great outside tomorrow :)03:26
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jonwilI finally found the cause of the boot loop that started all my N900 troubles. I wanted to see what packages apt-get upgrade on cssu-devel actually wanted to install. So I added cssu-devel to my repo list and ran apt-get update. Then I ran apt-get -s upgrade (to simulate the list of packages it wanted to install) and it seems that if you do that, it will install package kernel-modules but NOT...04:33
jonwil...the kernel itself.04:33
jonwilSo that then screwed up the kernel modules04:33
jonwilOf course I didn't actually install anything and then I disabled cssu-devel immediately04:34
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* Maxdamantus dislikes the idea of the package manager maintaining kernel modules (ie, files under /lib/modules belongining to the package itself)05:13
MaxdamantusThe kernel and the modules *could* be installed by something that is maintained by the package manager, but the package manager shouldn't maintain either directly.05:14
MaxdamantusNot sure how it typically works on, eg, Debian, since I've just been compiling my own kernels for as long as I can remember.05:14
jonwilI think the answer is to change something (dont know what) so that its impossible for the kernel modules to be installed without installing the matching kernel05:57
jonwiland vice versa05:57
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MaxdamantusSo `a` depends on `b` and `b` depends on `a`, therefore it's impossible to install either, problem solved.06:25
LjLpackage managers are usually a little smarter than that06:25
LjLmodern ones at least06:25
Maxdamantusbut yeah, if a kernel/modules are part of a package, they really should be part of the same package.06:26
MaxdamantusSince they're meant to be artifacts of the exact same build process.06:26
Maxdamantusmake && make install && make modules_install06:26
Maxdamantus(note that my point about not having the package manager "install" the modules/kernel still stands; it would be logical for something like `apt-get install kernel-installer` to give you some "install-kernel" command, which copies modules into /lib/modules and a kernel into /boot, and maybe updates some bootloader configuration)06:31
Maxdamantus(that way, when you uninstall/upgrade the "kernel-installer" package, it doesn't try to remove the old kernel/modules .. just the ability to install them again)06:32
jonwilAnyhow, if I end up being in a position to do updates to CSSU-devel I will make some changes to solve that06:34
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jonwilmerlin1991: ping06:41
DocScrutinizer05well... NEVER run apt-get zpgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade on maemo06:42
jonwilregardless of all that, it shouldn't ever be possible to install a package in a way where some other thing is also needed for the system to work but that other thing doesn't get installed06:43
DocScrutinizer05hmm, good luck06:44
jonwilwhy do you say that?06:44
DocScrutinizer05because that's a question of dependencies and maemo isn't built in a way that handles dependencies so you could do upgrade or dist-upgrade.06:44
jonwilI am not interested in fixing it so you can do upgrade or dist-upgrade, I am interested in making it so its impossible to do apt-get install blah and end up with a system that doesn't work (regardless of what blah is)06:46
DocScrutinizer05and like you're not supposed to do a apt-get upgrade, you as wel could install some conflicting lib or module or the like with dpkg -i pkgname and that would also not get handled gracefully if the dependencies inside the packages are not made to cope with it06:46
DocScrutinizer05CSSU-devel *is* broken06:47
DocScrutinizer05maemo-extras-devel has broken packages. You're not supposed to enable either of both repos and if you do neverthrless you MUST NOT do apt-get upgrade. You will be able to install the nroken packages with apt-get install. FIX: do not enable those repos06:49
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DocScrutinizer05to make it utterly clear: the kernel modules are supposed to have a dependency to kernel (obviously) but - partially due to the way kernel gets flashed on N900 rather than installed as a package - this can't get done in maemo06:58
DocScrutinizer05maemo has metapackage that consists of all the needed and paired things to make a working system. and you install that package instead of doing apt.get upgrade.  The wrong kernel modules wouldn't get installed by installing the PR metapackage07:00
DocScrutinizer05you could apt-get install wrong kernel modules on any system I guess, when you have wrong repos enabled and point to the wrong kernel modulles. that's not specifically maemo and not a bug07:02
jonwilYeah fair enough I guess07:03
DocScrutinizer05O hosed my PC linux by installing some libs from a newer distro release07:04
jonwilIf you install anything manually from any of the CSSU repos instead of installing cssu (stable, testing or thumb) the recommended way and getting mp-fremantle-community-pr and its exact dependencies) its your own fault if the system is screwed07:04
DocScrutinizer05which really is a bug I'd say, at least as far as shared object libs are concerned, since tthey are supposed to be able to coexist07:05
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: pretty much yes :-)07:06
jonwilIts my own fault for screwing up my N900 by not reading the warnings never to use apt-get upgrade and by not checking what packages it wanted to install.07:07
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jonwilBut definitely we should update cssu-devel with newer packages and we should figure out what packages in cssu-devel have been tested enough to be safe to promote to cssu-testing07:08
DocScrutinizer05well, we can try to fix that sick maemo-*-PR metapackage scheme as much as possible07:08
jonwilI am sure the latest version of maemo-security-certman should be put in cssu-testing for example07:08
DocScrutinizer05yes, that too07:09
jonwilSpeaking of which, there is probably a newer certdata.txt that I could pull into maemo-security-certman :)07:09
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jonwilactually, no there is not07:12
jonwilI just pulled the latest one and it matches the one I pulled last time I updated things07:12
merlin1991jonwil: pong07:34
KotCzarnyjonwil: ignoring multiple warnings because 'it wont happen to me' isnt smart ;)08:20
KotCzarny1/ you ignored warnings about -devel repos08:20
KotCzarny2/ ignored warning of not using apt-get update08:21
KotCzarnybut it's fine, you've learned a bit in the process08:21
KotCzarny(fear greatly increases remembering ;)08:21
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rhombusDocScrutinizer05: My phone was "charging" all night -- when I checked it this morning the LED was still blinking yellow. When I disconnected it from the charger, the battery level was just above empty.11:30
rhombusI am not sure what happened there.11:30
KotCzarnywhat charger/cable?11:30
KotCzarnyyour phone might be using more juice than provided11:31
rhombusKotCzarny: It could be that the WLAN was running all night, that's why I rebooted11:31
rhombusKotCzarny: The charger is the Nokia AC-2E11:31
KotCzarnywifi alone isnt enough11:31
KotCzarnydid you set it not to turn of the display? maybe some application running all the time?11:32
rhombus5.3 V, 500 mA output11:32
rhombusThe browser was left open, other than that I don't think anything else was running11:32
KotCzarnydefinitely 500 might be enough, but best to use 900mA or better11:33
KotCzarnyclose browser11:33
rhombusI rebooted, so...11:33
rhombusbrowser closed :)11:33
KotCzarnyany widgets on desktop?11:33
KotCzarnyanything weird you have installed?11:34
rhombusKotCzarny: You mean open applications?11:34
KotCzarnywell, you can have widgets11:34
KotCzarnytiny apps that take place on the desktop11:34
KotCzarnynot recommended usually11:34
KotCzarnythere was also a battery/current monitoring script, you might want to run it to see11:35
rhombusKotCzarny: I did the lazyflashing procedure yesterday with Joerg and installed CSSU11:35
rhombusbot is asleep maybe11:36
infobotwell, bq27k-detail is, or ~bq2711:36
KotCzarnyyeah, cssu is recommended11:36
KotCzarnyi suspect browser was running some weird js11:36
jonwilI have definitely had instances when a web page open in the browser drains my battery real fast11:37
KotCzarnyyou can run the bq script as root with '1' as a param to observe current usage11:37
rhombusKotCzarny: that's possible, the whole procedure (despite all the claims that it would "not take long") took about four hours11:37
jonwilThe n900 browser is a massive resource hog unfortunately11:37
KotCzarnyis your network slow? last time i was flashing/installing cssu wasnt longer than 30 min11:37
KotCzarnythat including me reading the steps11:38
rhombusKotCzarny: I'm talking about the entire procedure11:38
rhombusbackups (many), package installs, flashing, restores, etc.11:39
KotCzarnywell, i dont know about backups, just flashing+cssu11:39
rhombusCan i install bq27200 from the HAM?11:39
KotCzarnynope, it's just a shell script11:40
KotCzarnydownload with wget11:40
rhombusjonwil: is it the browser or the wifi module that's the resource hog? ;-)11:40
KotCzarnythen run in shell11:40
KotCzarnycan be ran via ssh11:40
jonwilwifi isn't a buge resource hog in my experience11:40
rhombusjonwil: that's not what I've been told11:40
KotCzarnywifi can be resource hog in crowded areas11:40
Wizzupis the battery maybe just dead?11:40
jonwilYes WiFi can be a resource hog if the network is congested11:41
rhombusjonwil: when I first got the phone I left the WLAN on and the new, fully charged battery was dead by the end of the day11:41
KotCzarnywizzup, he wouldnt be able to flash then11:41
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rhombusso I turned it off11:41
jonwilmy experience is that WiFi doesn't drain the battery11:41
rhombusWizzup: the battery is not that old11:41
rhombusjonwil: do you live in the country?11:42
jonwilbut you may have something about the WiFi environment in your area that might be a battery hod11:42
jonwilI live in a city11:42
KotCzarnyalso, dont enable 'periodically search for networks'11:42
KotCzarnyTHAT's a battery hog11:42
rhombusKotCzarny: That was on, yes11:42
rhombusKotCzarny: and yes, I turned that off, too11:42
jonwilYeah that is definitely the battery hog there11:42
jonwilregular old WiFi not so much11:42
rhombusWell, that is on by default :)11:42
rhombusso... unless you know this and actively turn it off...11:43
KotCzarnyapart from that, you can install battery-eye app11:44
KotCzarnyfrom my experience it's very good to observe battery history11:44
KotCzarnyand isnt like many of the others, not eating battery itself11:44
KotCzarnyalso provides nice statistics11:45
jonwilWhere is the "periodically search for networks" option?11:45
rhombusOk, I'll make a note11:45
jonwilI see "search interval" at 10 minutes, is that it?11:45
rhombusWhile I have you all here, isn't this phone supposed to have an FM receiver?11:45
rhombusI can't find an app for it11:45
KotCzarnyjonwil: internet connections11:45
KotCzarnythen 'switch to wifi when available'11:45
KotCzarnyand search interval11:46
KotCzarnywell, mostly 'search interval'11:46
jonwilI have that option enabled with search interval at 10 minutes and I dont get battery hog11:46
buZzrhombus: the radio only works if you put a headphone in, it uses the wire as antenna11:46
rhombusI had it enabled at 10 min11:46
rhombusbuZz: But I can't even find an app for it :)11:46
KotCzarnythere is app for fm radio11:47
buZzwell thats something else, cant help you there :P11:47
rhombusKotCzarny: in the community catalogs?11:47
KotCzarnycalled.. 'fm radio'11:47
KotCzarnydont remember, probably11:47
rhombussuch a strange name11:47
KotCzarnyit was a few years since i last installed things on my n90011:47
KotCzarnyusually most things come from extras11:48
KotCzarnyand many times newest versions in extras-devel11:48
KotCzarnywhile extras should be safe to leave enabled11:48
KotCzarnyextras-devel should be only enabled to install specific apps11:49
KotCzarnyand only if you trust devel and want latest version11:49
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KotCzarnyalso, you should read wiki more11:50
rhombusmy stupid wlan at work has a super tight firewall filter, the install fails11:50
rhombusI'll have to do this at home11:50
rhombusKotCzarny: I am fond of reading, but the Wiki is a bit of a mess11:50
KotCzarnyit is11:51
KotCzarnybut also great source of useful information11:51
rhombusKotCzarny: There's lots of stuff there that is totally outdated and for a new user it is confusing and sometimes even dangerous11:51
rhombuswithout Joerg's help yesterday I would have had no chance11:51
KotCzarnyyou would be fine11:51
rhombusIf people point me to the right info, yes :)11:51
KotCzarnyjust you would learn a lot more11:51
KotCzarny(at the expense of more time)11:51
KotCzarny(and errors ;)11:51
rhombusKotCzarny: yes and yes :)11:52
KotCzarnyusually you can check user's pages on wiki11:52
KotCzarnypeople bookmark important bits11:52
rhombusAh, good tip, thanks11:52
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KotCzarnyi wonder why User:Dik is targetted by spam11:54
KotCzarnyprobably someone wrote a script11:54
KotCzarnyand published in some spamkit11:54
KotCzarnysixwheeledbeast: ^11:57
KotCzarnyrhombus: also, is your wifi enabled with power saving mode?12:01
KotCzarnyit tends to eat a bit without12:01
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rhombusKotCzarny: Let me see12:23
rhombusKotCzarny: Where do I find that setting?12:28
KotCzarnyin internet connections12:28
KotCzarnyprobably in advanced button12:28
rhombusKotCzarny: I don't see an advanced button, unfortunately12:28
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KotCzarnyconnections -> (select your net) edit -> few times 'next' until you see 'advanced'12:29
rhombuspower saving is at max12:30
rhombusis that a general setting or does that apply only to this connection?12:31
KotCzarnyyeah, default is max12:31
KotCzarnybut you can change it per-connection i think12:31
rhombusAh, ok12:31
sixwheeledbeastBeen away for a bit, just reading ^^^12:45
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Wizzupwell, rip n900 wifi13:08
bencohyeah ...13:11
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Wizzupunless we switch to wpa_supplicant (and then a new version) :)13:13
bencohor patch the current implementation (is it closed?)13:15
KotCzarnyThe weaknesses are in the Wi-Fi standard itself, and not in individual products or implementations. Therefore, any correct implementation of WPA2 is likely affected13:15
bencohKotCzarny: apparently there is some kind of workaround to the weakness13:16
Wizzupbencoh: closed13:16
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rhombusDamn. I think my battery is damaged :(13:30
infobotsomebody said polarcell was BL-5J Replacement13:31
rhombusI have a variocell, it's been great up until now13:31
rhombusbut it's only 5 months old!13:31
KotCzarnyyup, that's how those cheapos work13:31
KotCzarnygreat at the first sight13:31
KotCzarnythen deteriorate quickly13:31
rhombusCheapos? It was the only thing available!13:31
KotCzarnyi still own and use ORIGINAL nokia battery that came with my n900 in 200913:32
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rhombusMy original battery was totally useless13:32
rhombusIt took two days to fully charge and then it held its charge for about six hours13:32
sixwheeledbeastI have had good success with several polarcells from wannasee13:33
KotCzarnybut aslo get good charger13:33
KotCzarny500mA isnt going to cut it13:33
KotCzarnybeware of cheapos too.13:33
bencohreminds me I should probably order a spare battery and compatible charger13:33
KotCzarnybetter get original nokia charger13:33
sixwheeledbeastexpected life is only 2-3 years13:34
rhombusI'm using the charger that came with the phone, an original Nokia charger13:34
bencohactually I dont really need a compatible charger, only a compatible cable (ie D+/D- shorted to ground)13:34
rhombusThe battery was working beautifully until I did this reflash13:34
rhombusStellar, these Varocells aren't even available anymore13:37
rhombusIs there any point in buying an old Nokia BL-5J, or one in original packaging? They've gotta be ancient by now13:38
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sixwheeledbeastI was looking at them magnetic USB cables but I imagine they are not D shorted.13:38
rhombusWhen I search for BL-5J on ebay, nothing but junk comes up13:40
rhombusAre there other model numbers that are equivalent?13:40
Maxdamantusrhombus: why not just get a Polarcell?13:42
MaxdamantusI imagine if anyone claims to be selling a BL-5J nowadays, it's probably fake.13:43
rhombusMaxdamantus: There isn't one available -- that link comes up with a "CURRENTLY SOLD OUT" page13:43
rhombusand the links below are to UK sellers, that's not much use to me13:43
rhombusOk, where do I get a decent charger? Can I just use a generic (micro-)USB charger?13:49
rhombusI don't want cheap junk13:49
MaxdamantusThey seem to be advertising them on Amazon still, maybe they'll ship to other countries through there.13:51
MaxdamantusDo you mean a charger to just plug into the phone?13:53
Maxdamantusaiui, you can get around the D shorting issue through software.13:55
rhombusMaxdamantus: there must be suppliers on the Continent13:55
sixwheeledbeastNo idea if there is an english site but maybe a good idea to replace the factiod with the company site over ebay.13:55
KotCzarnythere were still new bl-5j produced by nokia for some nokia asha series13:56
KotCzarnythat was year ago or so13:56
rhombussixwheeledbeast: No worries, I can read the German13:56
sixwheeledbeasti can't13:56
rhombusKotCzarny: Produced by Nokia, or by "Nokia"? ;-)13:56
MaxdamantusI think you can just do something like: echo 1800 >/sys/class/power_supply/bq24150a-0/charge_current13:57
KotCzarnysince nokia is no more since ~2012, by whatever m$ ordered it to, i presume factories didnt change13:57
Maxdamantusafter plugging in a non-shorted supply .. not sure though, I've just shorted the supplies I happen to use.13:58
KotCzarnyalso, my n900 came with 900mA charger13:58
rhombusKotCzarny: Can you direct me to a suitable 900 mA charger?14:01
MaxdamantusHmm .. with those magnetic cables, do you actually need to short them? Shouldn't they just function as normal USB cables, so you'd just have it shorted at the type A port, or have it plugged into a computer that it can negotiate a current with?14:01
KotCzarnyoh, it's 1200mA, not 90014:02
KotCzarnymost likely my n800 charger is 900 one14:02
KotCzarnybut if you have htc/samsung etc, you can use that one14:04
KotCzarnyjust use the original, not noname one14:04
rhombusAC-10U will have a NEMA 1-15 plug, no?14:05
rhombusIt says here for US N90014:05
rhombusI need a type F plug14:06
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KotCzarnyac-10e seems eu version14:07
rhombusah, thank you14:07
rhombusthese reviews are not encouraging14:08
KotCzarnymaybe fakes?14:09
rhombusEntirely possible :(14:09
KotCzarnyi havent seen anyone on #maemo saying his/hers charger breaking bad14:10
rhombusIs this a standard charger format? Does it have to be a Nokia charger?14:10
KotCzarnyas i've said, even cheapo fake will charge14:10
KotCzarnybut it's best to use branded one14:10
KotCzarnyand yes, doesnt have to be nokia branded14:10
KotCzarnyjust that nokia did solid products14:10
rhombusThe reviews on the German Amazon site are savage -- ("broke after three weeks", "complete junk", etc)14:11
rhombusthey are probably poorly refurbished previously defective units14:11
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rhombusoh, and some more "fake" and "really original? I doubt it" "not recommended"14:12
rhombusso much for that14:12
rhombusSo a standards compliant micro-USB charger will do the job14:12
rhombusI'll get one of those then14:12
MaxdamantusThough I think there's some chance a "standard-compliant" charger wouldn't be standards-compliant enough.14:13
KotCzarnyif it's original and branded, it should be ok14:14
KotCzarnytry borrowing some charger14:14
Maxdamantusin that it might not have its data pins shorted, which means the device needs to negotiate a current with a computer.14:14
rhombusMaxdamantus: one issue is that the Nokia charger has an output voltage of 5.3 V listed, wheres the standard chargers have 5 V output14:14
MaxdamantusThe voltage shouldn't be an issue.14:14
KotCzarnyi often charge n900 straight from my thinkpad too14:15
KotCzarnyno issues14:15
KotCzarny(but thinkpads can easily supply more than 500mA)14:15
MaxdamantusMm, I've done that too, including using the charging port thing, which I think acts as a dumb supply (so the N900 will be able to draw 1.6 A or something from it).14:16
Maxdamantus(I think that's only while the thinkpad is asleep/off)14:16
rhombusman, it just gets worse: "The third time I plugged it in, there was a dull thud... and the charger was dead."14:17
KotCzarnymaxd: if main battery isnt charging, there is a lots of power available14:17
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: yeah, but afaik you're not normally going to draw more than 500 mA from a computer, since the device won't try to negotiate more than 500 mA.14:18
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KotCzarnymaxd: i was running 1A and more hdds via usb with thinkpads14:18
KotCzarnythose are really solid machines14:18
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: I'm just talking about the current draw from an N900.14:18
rhombusKotCzarny: yes. I will hang on to my T500 for as long as possible, it was the last decent model14:19
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: sure, the Thinkpad has more than enough power available, but I don't think the N900 will draw more than 500 mA from a computer, unless you force it to.14:19
Maxdamantus(that is, more than 500 mA from a smart power supply)14:19
KotCzarnymaxd: still better power quality than any noname charger14:19
MaxdamantusWell, if it supplies enough current at the right voltage, it should be the same as any other charger.14:20
rhombusa huge industry, producing tonnes of electronics that turns to junk in just a few months14:22
rhombusvery discouraging14:22
KotCzarnyrhombus: i use my n900 since 200914:22
KotCzarnygot 3 spares just in case14:22
Maxdamantusand yeah, I can confirm that it behaves the way I described.14:22
rhombusKotCzarny: I wasn't referring to the N900 or the Thinkpad T_series prior to 2009 :)14:22
Maxdamantusplug it into computer, charge_limit = 50014:22
Maxdamantusplug it into power supply with data pins shorted, charge_limit = 180014:23
rhombusThe rest of the industry... all I can say is, holy $%&14:23
Maxdamantusand iirc, the Thinkpad only acts as a dumb supply when it's off/asleep.14:23
Maxdamantusotherwise it's just a computer, and a USB device shouldn't ask for more than 500 mA.14:23
Maxdamantusat least until USB 314:23
Maxdamantus(which N900 obviously doesn't implement)14:24
KotCzarnybtw. in idle n900 should take ~10mA14:26
MaxdamantusYou can always just force the N900 to draw up to 1800 mA by writing "1800" into the "charge_limit" sysfs node, which might be okay.14:26
KotCzarnythat's why even 500mA would work. unless something eats a lots of power14:26
MaxdamantusWell, the advantage would be faster charging.14:27
KotCzarnyyes, but he had a problem charging overnight14:27
MaxdamantusIf it used 0 mA, it would still take at least 3.2 hours to charge a 1600 mAh battery at 100% efficiency.14:27
Maxdamantus(when drawing 500 mA)14:28
rhombusKotCzarny: Maxdamantus As I said, the charger worked wonderfully right up until yesterday, when I did the flashing14:29
rhombusThe battery was full when the process started14:29
rhombusI did not have the phone plugged in during the updates, as I assumed that a full battery would mean I had more than enough time14:29
rhombusby the time the process was complete the battery was almost totally empty14:30
rhombusAnd now, it is not charging14:30
KotCzarnyanyway, in full use with screen on battery suffices for ~4-10 hours14:30
rhombusI don't think the charger is to blame14:30
rhombusI think the battery has checked out14:30
rhombusI have no way of knowing this for certain, but the phone recognizes that a charger has been connected when I plug it in and indicates that it is charging14:31
KotCzarnyyou can try leaving it OFF for 30 minutes14:31
rhombusI would use that script you recommended but I am at work and I can't use the network14:31
KotCzarnyand see if it charged14:31
KotCzarnya bit14:31
Maxdamantusrhombus: it needs to be able to boot the OS to charge effectively.14:31
rhombusKotCzarny: you mean charge it in off state?14:31
KotCzarnymaxd: he left it installing cssu14:31
Maxdamantusrhombus: it will only draw a small amount of current (I think 100 mA) through just hardware.14:32
rhombusKotCzarny: when I went to bed the installlation was complete14:32
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rhombusMaxdamantus: as I've said, I haven't any issues charging the phone -- on or off -- until this reflash14:32
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rhombusThis is not an existing problem, this started last night14:33
rhombusI will try turning the phone off and charging it that way14:33
rhombusand order two replacement cells14:33
Maxdamantusrhombus: hang on, how are you determining that charging isn't working?14:34
rhombusMaxdamantus: It charged over night and the battery was still almost empty14:34
Maxdamantusrhombus: maybe installing CSSU included using replacement-bme, which can be misleading if the battery is uncalibrated.14:34
rhombusMaxdamantus: then I charged for 2 hours this morning, after a reboot, and still nothing14:34
KotCzarnyya. that too14:34
rhombusMaxdamantus: oh, man, really? (I wish someone had mentioned this when I did the update)14:35
KotCzarny~listkeys battery14:36
infobotFactoid search of 'battery' by key (11 of 17): true, but the lack of extra battery #DEL# ;; #maemo battery ;; flips ibot's battery disconnect switch ;; batterytest ;; wmbattery ;; battery disconnect switch ;; as battery acid #DEL# ;; battery damage ;; battery-usage ;; batteryfaq ;; heh, no bottom view. can't tell if the battery #DEL#.14:36
KotCzarny~listkeys calibration14:36
infobotFactoid search of 'calibration' by key (1): bq27k-calibration.14:36
infobotwell, bq27k-calibration is
Maxdamantusrhombus: lsmod | grep bq2714:37
Maxdamantusrhombus: if that shows the module, it'll be using the bme replacement.14:37
rhombusMaxdamantus: ok, hang on, I have to boot the phone, it was off14:37
rhombusalso, you are right, it was not charging when off. Why is that? That worked last night14:38
KotCzarnyMaxdamantus: but one thing is weird, because he have said, he left it charging overnight and in the morning it was still orange14:38
Maxdamantuswhich uses information stored in the batter calibration chip to show charge, instead of just doing something weird with the current voltage.14:38
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: hm, I guess that might be weird.14:38
KotCzarnyrhombus: no, phone never goes into off mode, it fakes being off14:38
KotCzarnyhe meant when 'laptop is off'14:38
rhombusoh, sorry14:38
DocScrutinizer05((<KotCzarny> also, dont enable 'periodically search for networks' THAT's a battery hog)) ONLY when WLAN is not logged in to an AP14:38
rhombusKotCzarny: But then it should still charge when off, no? The yellow LED was not on even though the phone was plugged in14:39
rhombusand the charger stopped whistling14:39
rhombuswhen I turned it on again, the whistling returned14:39
DocScrutinizer05battery-eye DRAINS battery14:39
KotCzarnybtw. it was ON or pulsing?14:39
KotCzarnyDocScrutinizer05: nope, afair it only takes snapshots when system events occur, and the graph isnt continuous14:40
rhombusKotCzarny: When? Just now? Just now it was totally off14:40
KotCzarnyno, in the morning14:40
rhombusMaxdamantus: lsmod | grep bq27 returns nothing14:40
rhombusKotCzarny: in the morning it was yellow... I *think* it was pulsing14:41
KotCzarnyok. because sometimes daemon responsible hangs14:41
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: It may drain battery, but the key point here is that this worked fine until the reflash14:41
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: with battery-eye on14:41
rhombusKotCzarny: Ok, well, I've rebooted this morning14:42
rhombusbq27 module is not running, so can I assume it is using the old battery manager?14:42
DocScrutinizer05sorry, wall of text with lots of ...14:42
DocScrutinizer05I can't see what's happening and what all the incorrect assumptions were14:42
KotCzarnybasically he claims his battery didnt charge overninght after cssu install14:43
DocScrutinizer05you might recall I tried to make sure your device charged. That was for a reason. Maybe we should have given it another boot. Then a 500mA charger is not compatible with N900 anyway14:44
KotCzarnybut it should charge even with 500mA14:44
DocScrutinizer05I assumed you had a compatible charger14:44
KotCzarnyalso, he says it was working before14:44
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: no. 500mA has no D+- short14:45
KotCzarnybut it still would charge, only slower14:45
KotCzarnynot 'almost empty' after whole night of charging14:45
DocScrutinizer05it would charge with max 100mA14:46
KotCzarnystill WOULD charge14:46
DocScrutinizer05and yes, that can and will result in battery almost empty after a night14:47
DocScrutinizer05when display backlight on14:47
KotCzarnydid he left lcd on?14:47
DocScrutinizer05do you know he didn't?14:47
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: So whoever sold me the phone wasn't totally honest -- the charger is not original?14:47
DocScrutinizer05it's maybe a genuine Nokia charger but not for that device14:48
KotCzarnymaybe the cable is just 2 wires?14:48
KotCzarnyis the cable unusually thin?14:48
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: but... how many times do I have to repeat this? This worked fine until yesterday. Was I imagining things?14:48
rhombusIt would take about eight hours to charge from totally empty to totally full14:49
rhombusI routinely did partial charges (from say 50 - 60 % to 100 %) in the evenings or over night14:49
KotCzarnybtw. can you access www at all?14:49
rhombusand a charge held typically two to three days14:49
DocScrutinizer05yeah, charging has a number of modes14:49
rhombusKotCzarny: let me check14:49
DocScrutinizer05[2017-10-16 Mon 13:44:16] <DocScrutinizer05> you might recall I tried to make sure your device charged. That was for a reason. Maybe we should have given it another boot.14:49
DocScrutinizer05wild guessing, anecdotal "evidence", and inappropriate measures won't "fix" this now14:50
DocScrutinizer05give the device a reboot!14:51
rhombusagain? I rebooted this morning14:51
rhombusthen charged for two hours14:51
rhombusno effect, battery shows as empty14:51
KotCzarnydont know if its the latest/proper version14:51
DocScrutinizer05aah ok. This morning then fine14:51
DocScrutinizer05unplig and replug USB14:51
rhombusKotCzarny: I'm on the company guest network, it has a portal14:52
rhombusLet me see if I can use the employee wifi14:52
KotCzarnydo you have any data plan on gsm?14:53
DocScrutinizer05D+- short means fastcharging. 500mA is no fatscharging, so a 500mA charger will most likely not have D+- short. And device is meant to try USB ENUM when it sees VBUS without D+- short14:55
DocScrutinizer05hook it up to a PC so you know it's charging with 500mA14:56
rhombusdamn, I can't authenticate14:56
DocScrutinizer05maybe do that stuff tonight then?14:56
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: yeah, i will have to do it then14:56
DocScrutinizer05instead of draining your battery further by futile installaion efforts14:56
rhombus(I don't understand why this authentication doesn't work, but oh well)14:57
rhombusI would connect the phone to my thinkpad but lack a suitable microUSB cable14:57
rhombusmore stuff to add to the shopping list14:57
DocScrutinizer05close all apps and lock/dim the screen, then atach it to that charger. This way it should still charge a little bit14:58
DocScrutinizer05and yeah, disable WLAN14:59
KotCzarnyalso, funny, you can access irc but not www14:59
DocScrutinizer05scanning for APs really is a terrible battery hog14:59
DocScrutinizer05the more APs in vicinity the worse15:00
DocScrutinizer05there's a reason the system does this only periodically15:01
DocScrutinizer05disable periodic scanning, that's OK then15:01
MaxdamantusYou should still be able to get 500 mA from a 500 mA charger, by doing `echo 500 >/sys/class/power_supply/bq24150a-0/charge_limit` after plugging it in.15:04
Maxdamantus(you can also read that file to see how much it's willing to draw; will probably say 100 after plugging it into that charger)15:06
infobotwell, power is
rhombus(on phone)15:12
DocScrutinizer05>>WLAN on - no powersave *) - 200 mA<<  *) or no associated AP which controls powersave15:12
DocScrutinizer05NB: >>WLAN transmit 802.11b - 150 mA<< - only15:13
DocScrutinizer05so WLAN RX without AP sucks more power than constant TX15:14
DocScrutinizer05((<rhombus> It would take about eight hours to charge from totally empty to totally full)) doesn't match charging with 500mA which shouldn't take longer than 3h to charge a 1300mAh battery. Rather matches charging a maybe 20% battery (shows as empty) to 80% (shows as full) at 100mA, particularly when the battery capacity has aged and is maybe only 1000mAh now15:32
DocScrutinizer05and 100mA charging is what you'd expect to see from a charger without D+- short15:32
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: ok15:33
KotCzarnysee what maxd said15:33
rhombusso I need a new charger15:33
KotCzarnyconnect that charger, then check the sys file15:33
DocScrutinizer05also note that charging details changed from PR1.2 to PR1.3 iirc15:33
KotCzarnyif it's 100, set it to 500 and observe15:33
rhombusKotCzarny: that works only if bq27 is installed15:33
KotCzarnyyou can try switching to cssu-thumb15:33
KotCzarnyor cssu-testing15:34
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: please don't touch *thumb! (for now)15:34
KotCzarnythought cssu comes with newer module already15:34
DocScrutinizer05no, CSSU is about fixing stuff15:35
KotCzarnyhmm, where does that module coming from?15:36
KotCzarnyi have pk5315:36
KotCzarnyand no such sys file15:36
KotCzarnyit needs to load that module by hand?15:36
DocScrutinizer05then the module is most probably blacklisted15:36
KotCzarnywhat was the module named again?15:36
DocScrutinizer05no idea15:37
KotCzarnyonly mousedev is in blacklist15:37
rhombusok, off the phone15:40
DocScrutinizer05((<KotCzarny> see what maxd said)) sorry, I don't see that15:41
KotCzarnyfunny, seems that module is not used, and bq script works fine without it15:41
rhombusKotCzarny: I'm on IRC on my laptop on the LAN15:41
DocScrutinizer05yes, BQ script works fine *only* without that module15:41
KotCzarnyrhombus: download bq script on laptop then scp ?15:41
bencoh+1 for scp15:42
DocScrutinizer05please leave rhombus alone with messing up his phone while no connection to internet15:42
rhombuswhoa, just noticed something15:43
rhombusWhen I press on the status bar, I see15:43
KotCzarnybq script is safe15:43
DocScrutinizer05a notifier "not enough charging power"?15:43
rhombus"Battery: 13% Battery charging  168/1234 mAh 3 hours"15:43
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: don't you tell the inventor of bq script about its properties ;-)15:44
KotCzarnyoh, tell me more, what are the risks? :P15:44
rhombus(reading all your previous messages)15:44
rhombusKotCzarny: I cannot get on the company intranet, I have to do this at home this evening15:45
rhombusOk, I have closed all apps and dimmed the screen. Internet connections says "no connection"15:46
DocScrutinizer05make sure you set to "scan for new APs: never" or somesuch, in internet/WLAN settings15:47
rhombusI will have to see about a replacement charger, the Nokia ones seem to be fakes15:47
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: make sure you set to "scan for new APs: manually" or somesuch, in internet/WLAN settings15:47
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: I have : "Connect automatically: Always ask"15:48
rhombusis that the right place?15:48
DocScrutinizer05next to it, moment please15:48
* DocScrutinizer05 fetches phone15:48
DocScrutinizer05Einstellungen - Suchinterval: Nie15:50
DocScrutinizer05Einstellungen - Internet - Suchinterval: Nie15:50
rhombusFrom which Settings applet?15:50
DocScrutinizer05settings - internet - >>15:50
rhombusfrom which one?15:50
rhombusInternet connections?15:51
rhombusBecause there, I see only15:51
rhombus"Automatisch verbinden: Immer fragen"15:51
rhombusthen on the right15:51
rhombusand "Speichern"15:51
rhombus"Suchintervall" is greyed out15:51
rhombus(And it says 30 min)15:52
rhombusOk, now I set "WLAN" and changed the interval to never15:52
rhombusand then set it back to Always ask15:52
rhombusI'm going to leave this be until I get home tonight15:53
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Until then, can you suggest a better charger?15:53
DocScrutinizer05three buttins: "Autimatisch verbinden", "Suchinterval" and a checkbox "[ ] Bei verfuegbarkeit in WLAN wechseln" - values: "Beliebige Verbindung", "Nie", "[x]"15:53
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: What's wrong with "Immer fragen"?15:54
DocScrutinizer05up to you15:54
rhombusOtherwise it will automatically try to connect, no?15:54
DocScrutinizer05but not via WLAN when interval is set to "Nie"15:55
rhombusI don't have a data plan, so "always ask" is fine, it worked fine last night15:55
rhombusIt tells me there is no connection, shows me a list, and lets me choose -- that's perfectly acceptable15:55
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Can you suggest a charger?15:56
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: There are loads of Nokia fakes out there15:56
DocScrutinizer05they are usually good fakes or even originals15:56
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: The product reviews I've been reading suggest otherwise15:57
KotCzarnybuy some nokia phone from telco? ;)15:58
DocScrutinizer05but no, I can't recommend a charger since I usually get them with phones15:58
rhombusKotCzarny: you're suggesting that any Nokia charger will do15:58
rhombusKotCzarny: I need not limit myself to the AC-10E, then15:58
rhombusKotCzarny: Do I have to start soldering shit? Because I don't have time for that15:59
KotCzarnyrhombus: for slow charging any will do15:59
DocScrutinizer05basically any charger will do as long as it has the (usual) 1000mA+ and it has (needs check) a short between D+ and D- data line of USB15:59
KotCzarnyfor fast charging, it nees to follow a standard15:59
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: is that some sort of standard?16:00
DocScrutinizer05and those without D+- short are useless even for slow charging16:00
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: What does it need to support fast charging?16:00
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: yes, it's one of 4 competing standards16:00
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: What's the standard called?16:00
DocScrutinizer05they don't have names, it's a hige PITA16:01
KotCzarnyfunny as it is, i havent ever seen a charger that wouldnt work with my n90016:01
DocScrutinizer05most chargers now follow the Apple standard which has a resistor network on D+/-16:01
KotCzarnyie. my gf's samsing travel charger works as expected and is doing fast charge16:01
rhombusKotCzarny: so I can get a Samsung travel charger, done16:02
KotCzarnyum, results may vary16:02
KotCzarnybetter just borrow one16:02
KotCzarnybefore buying16:02
rhombusKotCzarny: argh, then why do you make a claim like that?16:02
KotCzarnybecause it works in my case?16:02
rhombusKotCzarny: why wouldn't it work in mine?16:02
KotCzarnyhow many chargers did you try?16:03
rhombusKotCzarny: I haven't tried any apart from the one that was packaged with the phone16:03
rhombusBecause I don't want to wreck the phone, for starters16:03
KotCzarnyyou wont16:03
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: you best get a charger with USB A receptacle for regular USB cable. Then either check (and if needed fix) D+/- short, or mod a USB cable by opening the outer sleeve carefully and cutting+conecting the green and yellow cable16:03
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: can D-short cables be purchased?16:04
DocScrutinizer05yes, but tricky to find16:04
rhombusI'll need a multimeter to check the cable, yes?16:04
KotCzarnyrhombus: do you have access to any phone charger in house/at work?16:04
rhombusI've been meaning to purchase one anyway16:04
KotCzarnyjust borrow for a charge or two16:04
DocScrutinizer05you can check with your N90016:04
rhombusKotCzarny: my wife has one or two16:04
rhombusI'm guessing infobot will tell me how16:05
KotCzarnyif it has microusb, just try it16:05
DocScrutinizer05I was busy to find the cmdline for you but I had to abort that to kicj in here once more to stop shit happen16:05
rhombusyes, I was getting a lot of dangerous advice16:05
KotCzarnyyou have backup, no? ;)16:06
KotCzarnyif so, fire away!16:06
rhombusWhat I have little of is time, and I've already spent way too much of it on this today already. If you guys are around this evening, I might see you then. I have to get back to work.16:06
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger16:06
rhombusBut thank you all for your tips. Now at least I know why the charging performance on this phone has been modest16:07
DocScrutinizer051=D+- short16:07
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: it says "1"16:07
DocScrutinizer05let me verify16:07
DocScrutinizer05yes, verified16:08
rhombusok, so the charger can do fast charging?16:09
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: ^16:09
DocScrutinizer05it can't (fastcharging means > 1A), it just *claims* it could16:09
DocScrutinizer05I.E it has D+- short16:09
rhombusbut I can verify that any other charger i connect at least has D+-short16:09
DocScrutinizer05it mustn't unless it can provide 1A16:10
rhombusso fast charging = must have D+-short16:10
rhombusno D+-short, definitely no fast charging16:10
DocScrutinizer05and 1A plus16:10
rhombusgot it16:10
buZzi thought no short == no charging16:10
buZzat all16:10
DocScrutinizer05buZz: only 100mA16:11
DocScrutinizer05it thinks it's a USB host16:11
buZzbut not without D- and D+ connected to -something-16:11
buZzif its not connected to anything, it wont charge16:11
rhombusok, friends, I have to work16:11
rhombusthanks again16:11
rhombussee you this evening16:11
buZz(aka just V+ and GND)16:11
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KotCzarnyweird as it is, all ac-2e chargers i find are using barrel plug, not microusb16:12
KotCzarnycould it be someone was fiddling with his?16:13
DocScrutinizer05buZz: iirc the method is: when VBUS then set 100mA, check for D+- short and set 1A if seen, try USB host detection and start ENUM when seen16:13
DocScrutinizer05ENUM would negotiate up to 500mA then16:14
buZzi see zero charging happen on my selfmade powerbanks16:14
buZzwhich have D- and D+ just not connected16:14
DocScrutinizer05powerbanks are weird, they stop VBUS when no load16:14
* buZz points at selfmade16:14
buZzthis one never stops to power the outputs16:15
DocScrutinizer05sorry can't speculate16:15
buZzthats ok :P16:15
DocScrutinizer05you could trace what's going on16:16
DocScrutinizer05to make it more challenging, this whole shit changed somewhere around PR1.2->PR1.3 and then again with Pali's open "BME" implementation16:17
DocScrutinizer05so odds are when you got powerkernel, no charging at all is what you see16:17
DocScrutinizer05depending on whether or not that bq27xx.ko and friends are loaded16:18
buZzoh i might actually have powerkernel yeah16:18
KotCzarnydoc, can you find microusb based ac-2e charger?16:19
DocScrutinizer05wouldn't even know what that is16:19
KotCzarnyjust google nokia ac-2e16:19
KotCzarnyhe has that charger and uses it16:20
DocScrutinizer05he said the charger says 500mA16:20
DocScrutinizer05don't need toknow more16:20
KotCzarnyyes, but all chargers i find use barrel plug16:20
DocScrutinizer05never seen any16:21
KotCzarnypity old nokia pages are already nuked16:21
DocScrutinizer05aah wait, you say it's a fake ac-2e with micro-USB instead of barrel plug at cable end?16:22
KotCzarnyac-2e might be original, just cable changed16:22
KotCzarnyie. some refurb16:22
DocScrutinizer05500mA USB chargers are very unusual16:23
DocScrutinizer05always have 70mA minimum, now 100016:23
KotCzarnyand maybe he was able to charge before, because he wasnt on cssu16:23
KotCzarnywhich means he is going to have flatbat soon16:23
DocScrutinizer05yeah, with 13% SoC16:24
DocScrutinizer05that's why I advised to not do lots of futile messing to download and install stuff16:25
KotCzarnythere is a chance his wife samsung charger would work16:25
DocScrutinizer05or he just uses PC to charge16:25
KotCzarnyshouldnt that warning be added to cssu page?16:26
DocScrutinizer05which will work just fine unless you installed some kernel modules that make the whole thing bootloop ;-)16:26
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't that get investigated and fixed in CSSU rather?16:27
KotCzarnythat's also fine idea16:27
KotCzarnybut i guess bme is pali's area of competence16:27
DocScrutinizer05add bogus warnings based on a hypothesis... tzzz16:27
DocScrutinizer05no, actually BME is my genuine competence. Pali's domain is his BME replacement implementation16:28
KotCzarnynot so bogus, we have seen one sample today ;)16:28
DocScrutinizer05do we?16:28
jonwilJust about ready to upload a bunch of stuff to cssu-devel (a lot of which I haven't tested and dont know if it works)16:28
KotCzarnyhow do you explain his almost empty device?16:28
DocScrutinizer05you don't even have any data if the thing charged at 100mA or not at all16:28
jonwilwhich is why I want to check with fmg before I upload some of it just to see if he thinks its OK to upload or not16:29
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KotCzarnykids today, saying the phrase then leaving16:30
DocScrutinizer05WLAN on - no powersave - 200 mA;  Backlight on max +150 mA16:30
DocScrutinizer05you wouldn't know the difference whether it's charging @100mA or not at all. So please don't suggest to add bogus warnings16:31
KotCzarnybut note, he claims it was working fine before installing cssu16:32
KotCzarnyand i suspect he was actively using it16:32
DocScrutinizer05rather consider how to do proper investigation on your own device16:33
KotCzarnyi have no fake chargers16:33
KotCzarnyno bad cables either16:33
DocScrutinizer05then don't do fuzzy conclusions16:33
DocScrutinizer05when I hear "I suspect... (it worked...)" I always answer "I suspect there are other explanations too"16:35
KotCzarnygot any?16:36
DocScrutinizer05see above16:36
DocScrutinizer05I'm not wasting my time on suspecting a likely usage pattern a few years ago, or whatever16:37
KotCzarnyusage pattern 'device left overnight with wifi on and charger connected'16:37
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks16:38
DocScrutinizer05read what I said: associated to AP (very low WLAN power consumption) and with dim backlight16:38
DocScrutinizer05now please stop that16:39
DocScrutinizer05you don't even know if power saving setting has chaged during reflash and upgrade16:40
DocScrutinizer05and you don't know if backlight on or off16:41
KotCzarnyhe checked, it's at 'max'16:41
KotCzarny(wifi power save)16:41
DocScrutinizer05basically we know nothing at all16:41
DocScrutinizer05meh, wasting my time16:42
DocScrutinizer05before: worked with unknown usage pattern (most likely WLAN turned off and backlight turned off) allegedly 3 days standby. NOW: reflashed and upgraded to CSSU, on a supposedly broken charger overnight, then in use for at least 6h and now at 13% charge -- "DAMN there is something wrong!!! We should add a warning that CSSU has a bug in charging" ... No Way!16:48
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DocScrutinizer05please google "powersupply foldback" for a story about how a 500mA charger could reduce voltage to a point where only a few mA would flow, when overload detected. Overload is possibly under very specific conditions when you attach a 500mA charger to N90016:56
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DocScrutinizer05overload *not* likely with >>[2017-10-16 Mon 13:49:18] <rhombus> I routinely did partial charges (from say 50 - 60 % to 100 %) in the evenings or over night<<16:57
DocScrutinizer05as a re: >>[2017-10-16 Mon 15:36:26] <KotCzarny> got any?<<16:58
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DocScrutinizer05seems device is a tad busy immediately after unplugging charger18:35
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DocScrutinizer05...or the calculated corrected remaining energy in cell gets adjusted by bq27200 chip due to battery chemistry and temperature settling18:36
DocScrutinizer05or it's just a random factor from IRC traffic to xchat ;-)18:37
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DocScrutinizer05aah, I know (maybe). It's probably nased on CACT x *current* VOLT and the latter changes with load thanks to battery ESR18:49
KotCzarnyis there a chance it helps break some maemo's core keys?18:55
KotCzarnyie. repo keys?18:56
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DocScrutinizer05what for?19:02
DocScrutinizer05      mv   RSOC CSOC mA   NAC  CACD CACT TTF   TTE   TEMP19:04
DocScrutinizer0517:50 4115 96   96   -41  1098 1098 1098 65535 1606  25  NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:019:04
DocScrutinizer0517:55 4131 96   96   -13  1095 1095 1095 65535 4882  25  NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:0 #1098-1095=3mAh, per 5min= 36mA avg19:04
DocScrutinizer0518:00 4131 96   96   -14  1094 1094 1094 65535 4496  24  NOACT:0 IMIN:0 CI:0 CALIP:0 VDQ:1 EDV1:0 EDVF:0 #1095-1094=1mAh, per 5min= 12mA avg19:04
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DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: I doubt Nokia generated their signing keys for repos by using >>a software library adopted in cryptographic smartcards, security tokens and other secure hardware chips manufactured by Infineon Technologies AG<<19:09
DocScrutinizer05anyway it would be worth lottle to break their signature19:10
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DocScrutinizer05little, even19:11
DocScrutinizer05unless, for Harmattan maybe19:11
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DocScrutinizer05 shows how the more on-spot measurements for mA and derived values like TTE reproduce noise from random system activity, while the delta-NAC is relatively steady (though corse granularity) at ~3mAh/5min aka 36mA19:20
DocScrutinizer05this is idle device with WLAN on PSM-max with AP supporting that, locked, with xchat running in background19:21
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DocScrutinizer051098 - 1080 NAC = 18mAh per 30min = 36mAh/h :-D19:27
DocScrutinizer05avrage over all spot readputs of current (8 points): 37mA19:32
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DocScrutinizer05 54 * 50 / 90 = 3620:22
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DocScrutinizer05 hmm lol, hope we can get a wpa-supplicant update soon21:42
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DocScrutinizer05dang, maemo doesn't use wpa-supplicant, eh?21:58
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DocScrutinizer05let's see if TI conmes up with a new firmware for the WL12xx then. The benefits of non-FSF-RYF compliant firmware that does _nit_ live in a ROM in WLAN chip22:45
DocScrutinizer05_not_, even22:46
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DocScrutinizer05[2017-10-16 Mon 21:23:44] <DocScrutinizer05> is the communication "fixed" when only one of both has the patches?  [2017-10-16 Mon 21:24:05] <fromport> DocScrutinizer05: yes <fromport> it is a man in the middle attack and you have to convince both sides to re-use a previous key. <fromport> if one of the sides refuses, you are already safe22:47
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siceloDocScrutinizer05: that's the vuln i showed yesterday ... i didn't quite understand why you said it's a good thing22:59
sicelon900 doesn't use wpa_supplicant .. but i won't be surprised if eapd (what we use) is just as vuln. someone's got to test23:01
sicelofrom what i understood, it is not really a firmware issue, so we don't necessarily need wl12xx.23:02
DocScrutinizer05sicelo: yes23:10
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DocScrutinizer05it's unclear where the WPA protocol gets handled on maemo23:10
DocScrutinizer05to me, at least23:10
siceloyou can use wpa_supplicant though, if you first stop wlancond, and can live with having some applications get confused about connectivity state23:18
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