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| sixwheeledbeast^ | Sorry for the delayed response, yes I got a new token mailed and voted. | 00:50 |
|---|---|---|
| sixwheeledbeast^ | Elections always seem to be when I am away or busy. | 00:51 |
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| Maxdamantus | WRT that systemd thing .. my system at work (debian) handles usernames starting with "0" fine. | 03:33 |
| Maxdamantus | systemd does, that is .. wher `User=0max` and the "0max" user actually exists. | 03:33 |
| Maxdamantus | If it doesn't exist, it fails with status=217/USER | 03:34 |
| Maxdamantus | must be either a recent regression or some behaviour that depends on another library .. didn't notice anyone mentioning something like that when reading through the issue though. | 03:35 |
| * Maxdamantus is using systemd 222 | 03:37 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | timeless: wb! | 20:30 |
| timeless | thanks | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder how networking works at all in containers | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in the end you need virtual NIC (or bridge) just like on any other virtualization | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you have a dedicated physical NIC for each container | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right? | 20:33 |
| timeless | there are choices | 20:33 |
| timeless | you can assign a device straight into a container | 20:33 |
| timeless | you can let a container use NAT | 20:33 |
| timeless | or you can set up a bridge of a real device and then allow access to the bridge | 20:34 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 needs to sort his mind re bridge vs NAT | 20:35 | |
| timeless | for more fun, my kernel is 2.6 | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc a bridge is simply a sw-switch, right? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least on my router, it seems to be | 20:36 |
| timeless | that might be a reasonable way to look at it | 20:36 |
| timeless | roughly, a bridge allows multiple devices to claim to have distinct ip addresses together all of which can route out using the underlying device | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought the distinct IP addr would turn it into sth involving NAT | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you do full routing | 20:37 |
| timeless | the key difference is that w/ nat, you generally can't reach the connected devices from the host | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on my router br0 IFs all have same network and thus IP | 20:39 |
| timeless | NAT is functionally equivalent to a program acting as a client and making all outbound requests on behalf of all the things that it's natting | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2017/07/10/plasma-desktophU8317.png | 20:40 |
| timeless | for more fun, this computer has two bond interfaces | 20:41 |
| timeless | iirc eth0+eth1 = bond0; eth2+eth3 = bond1 | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bond is channel bundling for bandwidth? | 20:42 |
| timeless | and reliability in case one of the cards/cables fails | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I heard from a sysadmin friend that systemd killed all the bond groups in their corporate infra | 20:43 |
| timeless | joy, i can't wait for that | 20:43 |
| timeless | systemd/udev are replacing the eth{randomnumber} system w/ a different means of assigning names | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SLE | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 11? | 20:44 |
| timeless | sle? 11? | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Suse Linux Enterprise 11 | 20:45 |
| timeless | i'm on rhel6 :) | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with Service Level agreement and on-site suse dude who's cursing whole day long | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | systemd is real fun, the larger the infra the more the fun | 20:46 |
| timeless | i'm surprised they didn't test their rollout a couple of systems at a time | 20:46 |
| timeless | anyway, what i really want is a vbox style network | 20:46 |
| timeless | https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/Network_Configuration_in_VirtualBox#Host-only_Networking | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea about LXC here | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither about docker | 20:47 |
| timeless | we've occasionally tried docker | 20:47 |
| timeless | we decided it was a PITA and totally unusable | 20:48 |
| timeless | i personally decided that their OpenSource system was *awful* | 20:48 |
| timeless | they were really really really bad at accepting PR requests via github | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems Poettering likes it, so it must be awful | 20:48 |
| timeless | in theory, it's a good idea | 20:49 |
| timeless | but their docs, their PR system, their people... all lead me to not wanting to touch it w/ a 10' pole | 20:49 |
| timeless | the idea is great. and i think that docker has a proper local network bridge | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I only ever looked into Xen a tiny bit, with maemo infra. And the usual "everything for testing" on my personal workstation | 20:50 |
| timeless | i've used xen a bit, i think kvm a bit, vbox a bunch, occasionally vmware / fusion (iirc qnx/bb10 favored them) | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think a decent full virtualization is better than that para(?) stuff | 20:51 |
| timeless | oh, and i used solaris zones while hosting maemo stuff :) | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 20:52 |
| timeless | solaris zones were awesome. lxc is only now barely close to where solaris zones were 10 years ago :( | 20:52 |
| timeless | my cross reference was done using a lot of magic | 20:52 |
| timeless | opensolaris host os, nexenta guest zone | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah the awesome MXR(?) | 20:52 |
| timeless | nexenta is a debian solaris userspace | 20:52 |
| timeless | yep | 20:52 |
| timeless | so i used that to get the sources from .deb's | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a pity that vanished | 20:52 |
| timeless | yeah, sorry about that | 20:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | couldn't have done H-E-N without | 20:53 |
| timeless | it might be possible to talk to http://timeless.justdave.net/ (say "host: mxr.maemo.org") | 20:53 |
| timeless | oh, no, because there's too much magic involved | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should port that stuff to maemo infra | 20:54 |
| timeless | dreamhost doesn't know about it | 20:54 |
| timeless | i'm pretty sure the data is still in timeless.justdave.net | 20:54 |
| timeless | if you look at http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/mxr-test/source/ | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: xes_^: any chance for that? | 20:55 |
| timeless | you can see that the configs are mostly there | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | timeless: given you get access on a VM, would you be able and willing to port stuff to there? | 20:55 |
| timeless | anyway, solaris zones are basically proper lightweight virtualization | 20:55 |
| timeless | DocScrutinizer05: eventually, maybe. not anytime soon | 20:56 |
| timeless | right now i need to focus on fixing these two lxcs | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, it's dead since3 what? 5 years now? | 20:56 |
| timeless | something like that... | 20:56 |
| timeless | anyway... lxc hell | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at large or just networking? | 20:57 |
| timeless | just networking | 20:57 |
| timeless | roughly i'm hosting a `pydio` instance (that i don't trust much) in an lxc | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of | 20:58 |
| timeless | pydio.com/ | 20:58 |
| timeless | and i just need to let the host talk to the pydio instance so that the internet can access it | 20:58 |
| timeless | it's basically a file sharing system | 20:58 |
| timeless | w/ semi-shiny ui | 20:58 |
| timeless | i don't really care. mostly it's a web server and scary [hence lxc] | 20:58 |
| timeless | in theory, this would be a good chore for docker | 20:59 |
| joga | I'm not an expert on lxcs but we do use them at work | 20:59 |
| joga | (for bulk of the stuff anyway, not all of it) | 20:59 |
| timeless | i had this lxc working, but apparently not enough of it was set to automatically start after a reboot :-( | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk | 21:00 |
| joga | I handle them with proxmox | 21:00 |
| joga | makes it nice and clicky mostly | 21:00 |
| * timeless googles | 21:01 | |
| timeless | joga: did anyone at your company worry about AGPLv3? | 21:02 |
| joga | ...not to my knowledge | 21:03 |
| timeless | ... did anyone look at it? :) | 21:03 |
| joga | well I didn't at least :) | 21:04 |
| timeless | some of these licenses (and i can't remember which) have cascading impact on things that run nearby | 21:05 |
| timeless | imagine a "GPL-like license" on a "linux kernel" that required all userspace to be governed by that those same license terms | 21:05 |
| timeless | sadly, i can't remember which licenses have that property | 21:06 |
| joga | you mean I couldn't host a webapp on a container in proxmox? | 21:06 |
| timeless | i'm not saying that | 21:06 |
| timeless | i don't remember which license was risky | 21:06 |
| timeless | but in theory a poorly designed (or intentionally designed) license could require the associated webapp to also be open sourced | 21:07 |
| joga | well, I assume it's fine since they also offer paid support (we have community licenses for now) etc., but not gonna research it on my N900 right now :) | 21:07 |
| timeless | :) | 21:07 |
| timeless | http://elinux.org/Legal_Issues#GPL.2FLGPL_license_version_.28v3.29_issues | 21:08 |
| timeless | that page is actually pretty good. see also the "Use of kernel header files in user-space" | 21:09 |
| timeless | essentially the linux kernel developers have a carve-out designed to make sure that non GPL stuff is allowed to run w/o being tainted by GPL. But conceptually, w/o such carve outs, it could be pretty easy to consider "linux + all running applications on it" as a "derivative work" of "linux" | 21:10 |
| timeless | and "derivative work" is where open source licenses typically bind their magic | 21:10 |
| joga | ah well, we're not distributing the systems per se, just using it as an alternative to vsphere et al | 21:11 |
| timeless | so, v3 and agpl and friends were specifically to catch "apps in the cloud" | 21:11 |
| timeless | such that "accessing an app" qualified as "distribution" | 21:11 |
| timeless | if it's totally in house, you don't have a problem, because none of your people would exercise the clauses | 21:12 |
| timeless | in my case, the applications i'm hosting aren't only for my employer | 21:12 |
| timeless | which means i'm always slightly more cautious | 21:12 |
| joga | well, basically the only layer outsiders access is some nginx instance | 21:13 |
| timeless | right | 21:13 |
| timeless | it's just always very hard to tell what a given license does and how it impacts other things | 21:13 |
| timeless | especially if one hasn't played w/ it in a while | 21:13 |
| joga | I suppose so | 21:13 |
| timeless | i haven't looked at agpl/agpl3 in perhaps 10 years | 21:14 |
| timeless | i do remember that some license near that family was designed to catch more things and have more cascades | 21:14 |
| timeless | but i could easily be recalling the wrong license :) | 21:14 |
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| timeless | and i certainly don't remember the particulars :) | 21:14 |
| timeless | http://gpl-violations.org/news/ is an interesting read... | 21:19 |
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| timeless | sadly, the mailing lists linked from http://gpl-violations.org/mailinglists/ near the bottom aren't around | 21:26 |
| timeless | (at least the https links for browsing don't work) | 21:26 |
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| kalin | Hi! I'm new here. Can someone help me to run PyOBD on my n900 pls? | 22:44 |
| Wizzup | if it's not packaged in maemo, try a chroot | 22:47 |
| kalin | it is packaged, but i have dependencies issues | 22:49 |
| kalin | and nokia droped down repos | 22:51 |
| kalin | is there mirrors of repos? | 22:57 |
| Wizzup | yes, but idk the shortcut for the help bot. | 22:57 |
| KotCzarny | maemo-repos | 22:58 |
| KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos | 22:58 |
| infobot | it has been said that maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories | 22:58 |
| timeless | DocScrutinizer05: hey, do you think it's possible to create a bridge over a loopback? :) | 23:04 |
| sicelo | kalin: i did use it for some time .. worked reasonably ok. would hang sometimes (although i think problem was largely my clone, cheap reader, as well as the car itself (early merc)) | 23:07 |
| sicelo | but yes, fix your repos first | 23:07 |
| kalin | how | 23:11 |
| sicelo | you have been given links in KotCzarny's last comment .. | 23:12 |
| KotCzarny | there are also one click repos there for slower learners | 23:14 |
| kalin | i will try it | 23:19 |
| timeless | DocScrutinizer05: so... i think my problem is that my containers are systemd | 23:19 |
| timeless | i wonder if they "upgraded" | 23:19 |
| timeless | systemd in containers is really not friendly to linux kernel 2.6 | 23:19 |
| Wizzup | then deinstall systemd | 23:20 |
| timeless | yep | 23:20 |
| Wizzup | lxc doesn't require it | 23:20 |
| * timeless considers moving from debian to devuan | 23:20 | |
| Wizzup | neither does a chroot | 23:20 |
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| * timeless nods | 23:23 | |
| * timeless starts the painful process | 23:23 | |
| timeless | joy https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Wrwp6NMa/ | 23:24 |
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| * timeless sighs https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kBSn0YIO/ | 23:27 | |
| Wizzup | I keep getting the same text every 30 mins or so | 23:44 |
| Wizzup | anyone know wtf is up? | 23:45 |
| Wizzup | is this a maemo bug, operator bug...? | 23:45 |
| Wizzup | I've gotten it like 14 times | 23:45 |
| sicelo | text? sms? o r email? | 23:45 |
| Wizzup | sms | 23:45 |
| Wizzup | it's keeping me awake at this point | 23:46 |
| Wizzup | I guess I can turn off vibration in silent mode... | 23:46 |
| sicelo | no idea. never had that, although i vaguely remeber someone else once had .. maybe on tmo. | 23:47 |
| Wizzup | I'll turn it into offline mode if it persists. | 23:48 |
| Vajb | Wizzup: u can disable vibration in same place where u set device silent... | 23:54 |
| Wizzup | I know. | 23:54 |
| Wizzup | But I don't like doing that. | 23:54 |
| Vajb | then i don't get ur problem :) | 23:55 |
| Wizzup | ... | 23:55 |
| Wizzup | I keep getting the same sms | 23:55 |
| Wizzup | like it's a new one | 23:55 |
| Vajb | yes | 23:55 |
| Wizzup | every 30 mins | 23:55 |
| Wizzup | that's a *bug* somewhere | 23:56 |
| Vajb | hmm maybe network fails to get "ok got it" reply from ur phine | 23:56 |
| Wizzup | I don't want to make my phone unusable by removing vibrate from silent | 23:56 |
| Vajb | phone* | 23:56 |
| Wizzup | could. other texts worked fine | 23:56 |
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| Vajb | somewhat strange.. | 23:58 |
| Wizzup | rebooted also | 23:58 |
| Wizzup | still got it | 23:58 |
| Wizzup | ... | 23:59 |
| sicelo | if you have another phone, i'd say try moving the sim across for a while | 23:59 |
| Vajb | i think max dbls was like 3 of same, but that was when i cross country via boat | 23:59 |
| Vajb | and they advertised roaming prices | 23:59 |
| Wizzup | I am not in my home country, but still | 23:59 |
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