IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2017-04-06

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NeKitI think packages in the repo are going to be build for armhf00:13
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DocScrutinizer05netkat: aha00:48
DocScrutinizer05I really wonder who spread that furfy00:49
DocScrutinizer05one of the points for devuan _was_ armel00:50
DocScrutinizer05of we had planned to move all maemo to a new arch, we had been (un)able to accomplish that a 5 years ago already00:52
DocScrutinizer05if we*00:52
DocScrutinizer05and indeed iirc it been done, a few times. until the point where it inevitably fails, for the closed blobs00:53
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DocScrutinizer05when you want a working maemo - there is one already. If you want a new kernel, I wonder why00:54
DocScrutinizer05it's not like *maemo* would work better with a new kernel00:54
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DocScrutinizer05at least not on N90000:55
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NeKitwell, what I'm interested in is running Maemo UI/apps on devices other than N900, so it's a new kernel/different set of blobs anyway...00:56
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DocScrutinizer05then why would you want stuff like system settings or gallery or **fennec**?00:59
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DocScrutinizer05I doubt a new platform would make much use of system settings. And gallery is a PoS only needed because it always been like this and camera-ui needs it01:01
NeKitI just tried them as examples of "old" apps01:01
DocScrutinizer05and camera-ui in turn also most likely won't work on another platform01:01
DocScrutinizer05prolly just like mafw and all that uses it: mediaplayer, all audio stuff at large...01:03
DocScrutinizer05on telepathy the jury's still out01:04
bencohactually I don't really see why mafw wouldn't work on other platforms01:12
bencohyou could very well instantiate mafw and its set of plugins (including mafw-gst-renderer)01:12
bencohiirc it is opensource01:12
bencohstock mediaplayer isn't; but we already have a working replacement for it, based on mafw as well (openmediaplayer)01:13
Zungoso, whats the problem, reverse engineer everything01:16
Zungomaemo itself comes with apps01:16
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DocScrutinizer05I just don't get it, no matter how hard I try. You can choose to build a armel or a armhf system. You could use powerlernel or a recent 4.x kernel with poor support for some of N900 peripherals. When you deliberately choose to use incompatible armhf and mainline kernel 4.x, why would you want to run maemo apps on it. Or the other way around: when you want to run maemo apps, why don't you run them on maemo (== armel-powerkernel)?03:35
DocScrutinizer05even with a 4.x mainline kernel you're still free to choose armel arch04:10
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MaxdamantusWell, in the long run it'll be kind of sucky if people have to use kernels from non-mainline sources.05:10
Maxdamantuslike how if you want to use zfs, you're meant to apply some patches first or build some module out of tree.05:11
Maxdamantusor .. nvidia05:11
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MaxdamantusAs for "If you want a new kernel, I wonder why", afaik we're sort of forced to use really old software with our current kernel.06:07
MaxdamantusSince recent versions of glibc don't support a kernel this old, and that's what distributors are targetting.06:08
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KotCzarnymaxd: for distro makers, maybe. for users there will always be an image with old, smelly kernel, see allwinner situation in case of unsupported socs08:25
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: well, users use what distro makers distribute.08:34
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KotCzarnyand sometimes take what they distribute, add some changes and distribute own images09:12
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MaxdamantusRight, but you don't want to depend on that, since those are always outdated and usually only get more outdated.09:26
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MaxdamantusThere are already people maintaining the up-to-date systems, which you should be using so you don't have to find some other system that someone has hacked together every few months/years.09:27
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freemangordonany idea how I can get XDG_..._DIR from c code without calling system("xdg-user-dir $DIR"); ?19:20
freemangordonbencoh: KotCzarny: merlin1991: ^^^?19:25
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KotCzarnyfmg, is that env var?19:42
Wizzupfreemangordon: getenv?19:42
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freemangordonno, it is not env var19:47
KotCzarnywhat is it then?19:48
freemangordonsee $HOME/.config/user-dirs.dirs19:48
KotCzarnyif it's custom defined by software and not env var, you would have to mimic the logic to generate them19:49
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freemangordonKotCzarny: there are tools to read and update those files, see xdg-user-dirs package19:50
KotCzarnymaybe there is a dir?19:50
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freemangordonbut I can;t find a library to read them :)19:50
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freemangordonthere is libxdg-basedir1, but it doesn;t seem to support custom dirs19:51
freemangordonor I don;t understand how it works19:51
KotCzarnyrip the source code out of it?19:52
freemangordonthis is hackish :(19:53
WizzupI thought the values in there had to evaluated on start, so they'd end up in the environment19:54
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freemangordondoesn't seem to work like that19:55
freemangordonfor example there is no XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR in the env19:56
KotCzarnyseems you have few predefined dirs19:58
freemangordonthe same goes for music, videos etc dirs19:58
freemangordonyes, you have, but how to get them by C code?19:58
KotCzarnyparse the ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs ?19:58
KotCzarnyit should be easy enough19:58
freemangordonand what if the format changes?19:58
freemangordonI'd prefer to use a library if any19:59
Wizzupthe way I do it in my software: if it is not in the env, use the default value20:00
KotCzarnyyeah, and if format changes, update20:00
WizzupThat doesn't happen very often, though...20:00
KotCzarnyyou can also start your own lib too20:01
KotCzarnythat's how they often are created ;)20:02
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freemangordonwell, seems no other way but to call xdg-user-dir :(20:10
freemangordonoh, and to make things even works, seems xdg-user-dir returns $HOME if there is no definition for what you look for, so you can;t distinguish between no definition for a directory and it is defined as $HOME20:11
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Wizzupfreemangordon: I think there's something wrong with your setup if it doesn't end up in your environment20:25
WizzupThe way I understood it, it was as simple as: Check if in env, if not in env, go for the specified default20:25
WizzupI don't have the file in my .config, so I cannot test it, but can't it simply be evaluated from the shell?20:26
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WizzupIt looks like this should be in /etc/profile or .profile20:26
KotCzarny $XDG_DATA_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user specific data files should be stored. If $XDG_DATA_HOME is either not set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.local/share should be used.20:27
KotCzarnyit's for DATA, there is another for CONFIG too20:27
KotCzarny $XDG_CONFIG_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user specific configuration files should be stored. If $XDG_CONFIG_HOME is either not set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.config should be used.20:28
KotCzarnyso according to standard, you can just getenv() and if empty, use defaults20:28
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freemangordonWizzup: my setup is what Canonical have set :)20:38
Wizzupthen they just want you to default to the env variables :p20:38
KotCzarnyso they've used defaults ;)20:38
Wizzup(and if they are not set, set to defaults)20:38
freemangordonno, because this is what I have in the config fie20:39
WizzupThe spec tells -developers- to use the env, and if it is not in the env, use the defaults. They don't tell you to read the config files20:39
freemangordonXDG_NOKIA_CAMERA_DIR is set by me20:40
WizzupIf the configuration does not end up in the enviroment, that's not -your- problem, but the distro issue20:40
freemangordonthe other are "stock"20:40
WizzupIs that specified by the XDG standard?20:40
WizzupOr is it what maemo uses?20:40
WizzupIf you want the variables in the env and the distro does not set them, try some wrapper script like: #!/bin/sh source .config/xdg-thingie && exec my_program ?20:42
freemangordonWizzup: this is what Ubuntu uses20:48
WizzupWhat do you mean? I don't understand20:48
WizzupDo you mean the XDG_NOKIA_CAMERA_DIR?20:48
freemangordonWizzup: pastebin ^^^ is from my PC20:48
WizzupI realise; but I think we're not communicating well20:48
WizzupThe *proper* (afaik) way to read any XDG setting from a program is to read the environment and fallback to hardcoded defaults20:49
freemangordonthat one I set manually by using xdg-user-dirs-update --set NOKIA_CAMERA20:49
WizzupIf they don't end up in the environment, that's a bash profile issue, but an issue in the program20:49
Wizzupe.g. the fix is not to call system() on the xdg-user-dir program, AFAIK20:49
WizzupBut instead to have the environment variables be set before your program is started20:50
Wizzups/but an/but not an/20:50
freemangordonhmm, ok20:52
freemangordonthanks, will see what can be done and why those vars are not there20:52
WizzupThe other question is what ubuntu does with variables that start with XDG that are not defined by the XDG spec20:53
WizzupI don't know if XDG_NOKIA_CAMERA_DIR is defined in the xdg spec, and what the fd.o website says about vars that start with XDG but are not in the XDG spec20:54
WizzupPerhaps ubuntu somehow filters unknown ones20:54
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freemangordonWizzup: nokia_camera is deffinitely out of specs21:04
KotCzarnynokia, the former leader of setting standards!21:07
buZzit just follows alt-specs21:11
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TheKitis XDG_NOKIA_CAMERA_DIR for storing camera pictures?22:47
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TheKitSailfishOS uses $XDG_PICTURES_DIR/Camera23:26
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