IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2017-04-03

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DocScrutinizer05((<freemangordon> but it should be something like dd if=$image of=/dev/$sdcard bs=4096)) in which case you could ommit the blocksize00:26
DocScrutinizer05blocksize has no effect on the reslt in a dd command without skip or similar, it just tells buffer size of process00:28
DocScrutinizer05if you use count= or skip= then bs= is relevant00:28
DocScrutinizer05xz -c $image.xz | dd -of=/dev/$sdcard bs=1M00:29
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DocScrutinizer05((<parazyd> try root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 i guess)) no there's a gotcha, kernel thinks uSD is mmcblk000:37
parazydyes, we've resolved that00:37
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DocScrutinizer05one thing to knmow: you can't power off N900 when charger or PC is connected to USB00:40
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DocScrutinizer05as soon as there are 5V VBUS the device boots up00:40
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DocScrutinizer05it however enters a runlevel dubbed ACT_DEAD that mimics a shut down device with only LED flashing yellow00:41
DocScrutinizer05actually the amber flashing LED is unrelated to charging on a hw level, maemo middleware does that. And maemo BME process tickles the watchdog timer in charger chip which keeps the chip from stopping charging. That's why you can't charge battery when your system is fubar, and you can't fix your fubar system (flashing) when battery empty00:44
infobothmm... bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.00:44
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber shut off -> start over again with ~flatbatrecover while already searching for a new battery. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs OK (no ~bootloop)00:44
DocScrutinizer05WATCH OUT when using alternative OS, it usually does _not_ know how to tickle chargerchip watchdog00:45
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues charge2100:47
infobotFactoid search of 'charge21' by value returned no results.00:47
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DocScrutinizer05~charge21 is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0500:48
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what's the 21 in ShadowJK's charge2100:49
DocScrutinizer05sth like charge69 and charge18 ? ;-)00:49
DocScrutinizer05oh charge24 another very common ... I don't even have a word for this marketing name strategy. *24 for car/friend/whatever URLs, 18 and 69 for XXX00:51
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DocScrutinizer05maybe 18 is specific german since you're adult at 18 here, might differ with other countries and their sexual intercourse legislative. 69 is obvious ;-)00:52
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DocScrutinizer05 rotfl. I guess you need to have been annoyed by the original TV commercial a few times to enjoy this01:05
Enrico_MenottiOk, I went to charge mode by connecting the usb AND holding the power button for a while. Now battery's up. Before I flash the device again, does anybody have any idea why now it doesn't go to charge mode as soon as I connect the usb, but I need to press the power button? (And the same for flash mode.)01:08
DocScrutinizer05charge mode with N900-maemo is always automatically enabled when you connect a charger or USB host01:11
DocScrutinizer05I just explained you can't power down the device when charger is connected since device automatically boots as soon as 5V applied. No matter what you do with power button, it won't stay off01:12
Enrico_MenottiOk, but the LED doesn't flash. And the device doesn't give signs of life. And if I press and hold the "u" and connect the usb, nothing happens.01:12
DocScrutinizer05then you managed to put the device into a limbo state where it's on but not respinsive01:13
Enrico_MenottiWhat would you do? Flashing?01:13
DocScrutinizer05I'd urgently suggest to remove battery to recover and not drain battery by keeping it in that state01:14
DocScrutinizer05a 10s power button press *might* work too01:14
Enrico_MenottiWell, I already charged the battery. If I press the power button (while connected to usb) it starts charging.01:15
Enrico_MenottiAnd if I hold "u" and press power it goes in flashing mode.01:15
DocScrutinizer05as I already explained 2 times, it always starts charging as soon as you connect charger01:15
Enrico_MenottiEven if the LED is not flashing?01:16
DocScrutinizer05if the LED is not flashing then something is wrong with your system01:16
DocScrutinizer05LED is not directly related to charging01:17
Enrico_MenottiIn any case, now I got the LED flashing by pressing the power button, and in the end it got green. I think I may assume that the battery is full.01:18
DocScrutinizer05there's even an app to adjust (or disable completely) the LED flashing pattern for device states incl 'charging' state. It's an OS feature01:18
DocScrutinizer05yes, at least 60%01:18
Enrico_MenottiOk, so now? Should I flash again, to restore normal behaviour?01:19
DocScrutinizer05green is not physical end of charge but some logical thing defined by OS01:19
DocScrutinizer05what's the problem with non-normal behavior?01:19
DocScrutinizer05please describe what you think is non.normal01:19
Enrico_MenottiThe fact that the LED is not flashing as soon as I connect the USB and the fact that in order to go to flash mode I have to hold "u" AND press the power button.01:20
Enrico_MenottiThis happened after I've been able to boot Devuan.01:20
DocScrutinizer05sorry, the first is normal and the second a handling problem or a hw defect01:21
DocScrutinizer05please refer to01:21
infobot[maemo-flashing], or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing01:21
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Enrico_MenottiFor the first, it does not flash until I press the power button. In any case, before booting Devuan these things did not happen.01:22
DocScrutinizer05there's no way to stop device from booting on a hw level when you attach 5V USB01:23
Enrico_MenottiOk, I know how to flash, I did it two days ago. But I wonder whether this is the case, or I could recover the thing without flashing.01:23
DocScrutinizer05so no such thing like "I need to press power button to make it charge"01:23
Enrico_MenottiOk, let's say that I need to press power button to see any sign of life.01:24
DocScrutinizer05you pressing power button while device already linked to charger will SHUT DOWN the device and it reboots instantly since it _cannot_ be powered down with charger attached01:24
DocScrutinizer05so my suspicion is you boted into a kernel that leaves the device in a state where it doesn't show signs of life and you interpreted that as "powered down"01:25
DocScrutinizer05attaching charger doesn't change that, so you have to press power button to reboot into sane working OS01:26
Enrico_MenottiOk, I understand. The strange thing is that I just uploaded the kernel for Devuan, not flashed it. It should not be in RAM anymore, right?01:27
DocScrutinizer05also allow for 30s for power up *and* shut down. The device is still cleaning up for 20s after LED and display went dark, on power off01:27
DocScrutinizer05RAM isn't magically cleared on random triggers. When experimenting with kernels you should get used to removing abttery and unplugging from USB to reach a defined state01:29
DocScrutinizer05battery, even01:29
Enrico_MenottiHow much time removing battery? I already tried...01:29
DocScrutinizer05actually I'm not even sure if the system reboots at all when pressing power button as long as charger attached, or simply does a "init 5" or "init 1" etc to change form "active" state to "ACT_DEAD" state and vice versa01:30
DocScrutinizer0510s should suffice01:31
DocScrutinizer05actually I guess 1s suffices01:31
DocScrutinizer05please study
Enrico_MenottiOk, I disconnected the battery for more than half a minute. This finally worked. Thank you. No need to reflash.01:32
DocScrutinizer05removing battery is the only failsafe way to get device into a known state after flashing01:32
DocScrutinizer05(incl EAMload)01:32
Enrico_MenottiYes, I just did not expect to have to do that for such a long time.01:33
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DocScrutinizer05I guess it's not needed for a long time, the system should crash hard from blackout within milliseconds01:34
DocScrutinizer05unless you keep USB attached ;-P01:34
DocScrutinizer05charger will power the system until watchdog kicks in, which is ~15s01:35
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Enrico_MenottiNo, I disconnected and reconnected the battery, without usb, many times, without success, until this last time (when I wated ~30 s).01:35
DocScrutinizer05and actually seen many devices come up with amber steady LED after 20min on charger without battery inserted01:36
DocScrutinizer05wow, then N900 is a better hardware than I ever expected :-)01:36
Enrico_MenottiIn any case, now everything's ok. Next step: trying to understand why the new kernel I built is not booting at all.01:38
Enrico_MenottiBut this is for tomorrow. Now, bed time.01:38
DocScrutinizer05when CPU enters zeroclock mode and RAM does suspend powersafe autorefresh, the power consumption may be very low indeed01:38
DocScrutinizer05the lowest standby current we seen with fully booted system is ~2mA iirc01:39
DocScrutinizer05when doing suspend2ram01:39
DocScrutinizer05where the latter more helps with keeping CPU un unclocked mode than with cutting down on CPUs power consumption01:40
DocScrutinizer05s/ un / in /01:41
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: where the latter more helps with keeping CPU in unclocked mode than with cutting down on CPUs power consumption01:41
DocScrutinizer05another kernel might be more relaxed and not start clocks at all until e.g. you connect charger01:41
DocScrutinizer05a trick that usually helps: press power button while _battery_removed_  --> instant blackout from CPU ramping up and draining buffer capacitors01:42
DocScrutinizer05no idea if your kernel you RAMloaded might have enetered suspend2ram state, or whatever. So yes it's possible a loaded kernel survives even 10 or more seconds of battery removal01:46
DocScrutinizer05>>why now it doesn't go to charge mode as soon as I connect the usb, but I need to press the power button? (And the same for flash mode.)<< for flash mode all explained above applies accordingly: flash mode only entered during bootloader pjase. When device is still running a kernel it won't even enter bootloader. You pressing power button for 8?s however powered down the device and in the next millisecond it gets booted up again, which01:56
DocScrutinizer05means it enters bootloader and the bootloader detects "u" held down etc01:56
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, 21 = version 2.105:10
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DocScrutinizer05aah :-)06:04
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KotCzarnywillmore, laziness and dumb users. too many choices and chaos would ensue ;)08:11
KotCzarnyeh. echan.08:12
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xesuh? DocScrutinizer05_v2.1 ?? :)08:57
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brolin_empeyIs there a disadvantage to this low-cost model of smartphone other than the non-removable battery and the lack of an integrated hardware keyboard?  Let me guess, someone will mention the Android OS as opposed to a GNU+Linux OS, lack of long-term OS updates, or allegation of spying or a backdoor because it is from a Chinese company.11:19
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bencohbrolin_empey: or the qualcomm (american company, mind you) backdoor11:21
brolin_empeybencoh: You mean in the cellular modem?11:25
bencoh(which is in the soc)11:26
brolin_empeyI am considering buying this product for my friend, not for myself.11:27
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brolin_empeyI do not know if the user can have superuser access on this computer either.  My friend may not care but I have always had superuser access, which is part of why I am not considering the BlackBerry Priv.11:32
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brolin_empeyThe HTC myTouch 4G Slide from 2011 and the similar HTC Desire Z AKA T-Mobile G2 from 2010 have an integrated hardware keyboard but the hardware keyboard lacks arrow keys or a D-pad.  At least for the myTouch 4G Slide, the newest version of the Android OS available seems to be only 4.x, specifically 4.4, but some things, such as Termux, already require at least 5.0 .11:36
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KotCzarnyif one doesnt care about software and just wants to have pr0n gadget, sure, it will do11:43
KotCzarnymain disadvantage would be trying to get it repaired in case something bad happens11:44
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brolin_empeyKotCzarny: it = what?  The computer I referenced on AliExpress?11:57
KotCzarnyif by computer you mean phone, yeah11:59
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: No, by computer I mean mobile computer with converged telecommunication capability, commonly known as a smartphone even though it can be used only as a computer and not as a telephone.12:02
KotCzarnyno, n900 is a mobile computer12:03
KotCzarnythat android phone is a gadget12:03
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brolin_empeyThe Nokia N900 is a bad user experience, especially in Canada.  We have already had this discussion months or years ago.12:06
KotCzarnyim not talking about phone part, do we?12:06
KotCzarnyunless you've changed definition of the computer again12:07
buZz>  The Nokia N900 is a bad user experience, especially in Canada.12:27
buZzyeah  nationality greatly affects ability to use linux12:27
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ovaltine_nationality affects ability to use linux? :O12:55
ovaltine_thats not good to hear12:55
* ovaltine_ finally understands why he is still a newbie after 6 years of using n90012:56
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buZzovaltine_: ^_^ i was joking :P13:01
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brolin_empeybuZz: You seem to have difficulty with reading comprehension.  I said “in Canada”, not “for Canadians”.  The Nokia N900 has limited cellular connectivity, which is especially limiting in Canada.  Find my previous discussion in the public log of this channel if you want the details.17:03
buZzi'd rather not be aware of any logs17:07
buZzbut, isnt cellular reception in ~99% of canada non-existant?17:07
buZzwouldnt you rather have a iridium device?17:07
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buZzDocScrutinizer05: thats humor , right? :P18:50
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DocScrutinizer05I wish it was18:51
DocScrutinizer05UMTS and LTE bands are a clusterfsck18:51
buZzyeah i dno18:52
buZzit sorta matches my idea of most of canada not having mobilephone coverage18:52
buZzbut what do i know18:52
DocScrutinizer05err, coverage is the one thing I can't find info for in that wikipage18:52
buZzthere is but doesnt seem to have a lot of canadian samples18:53
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DocScrutinizer05what I see is Canada is 1700 AWS18:53
DocScrutinizer05and 850/190018:54
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DocScrutinizer05maybe helping:
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DocScrutinizer05buZz: iridium is a zombie (was already dead before CIA(?) bought it for their purposes) and quite expensive19:36
buZzits still working and active19:38
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DocScrutinizer05yes, but in a zombie state19:38
buZziirc they even threw some new iridium sats up recently19:38
DocScrutinizer05wow, this must be Trump's idea19:39
buZzguy knows shit about tech19:39
buZzon January 14, 201719:39
buZz10 got launched19:39
DocScrutinizer05no of course not, but he's willing to spend billions into "USA FIRST"19:39
buZzDocScrutinizer05: sure USAFIRST while moving all production to other nations19:40
buZzi love this kinda nationalism , 'I WILL MAKE JOBS' *closed all solar factories*19:40
DocScrutinizer05>>... offer from Iridium as set by its parent company Motorola. The company failed to earn revenue sufficient to service the debt associated with building out the constellation and Iridium went bankrupt, the largest bankruptcy in US history at the time<<19:41
DocScrutinizer05ooooh! >>Iridium is currently developing, and is expected to launch during 2017 and 2018,[10] Iridium NEXT, a second-generation worldwide network of telecommunications satellites<<19:42
DocScrutinizer05Thuraya has very attractive offers19:44
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DocScrutinizer05>>Their service was restarted in 2001 by the newly founded Iridium Satellite LLC, which was owned by a group of private investors [[aka CIA straw men]]. Although the satellites and other assets and technology behind Iridium were estimated to have cost around US$6 billion, the investors bought the firm for about US$35 million.<<19:53
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DocScrutinizer05all their spies and all their military abroad *needs* a service like Iridium19:55
buZzif you have a SDR you can listen in to iridium ;)19:55
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DocScrutinizer05not encrypted?19:56
buZzmost isnt, no19:56
DocScrutinizer05haha, Thuraya is GSM-pimped19:56
DocScrutinizer05so at least weakly encrypted19:56
buZznice, i saw the 1TB rainbow table requirement dropped since ~201319:57
buZzas cpus are now fast enough to do it realtime19:57
DocScrutinizer05honesrly, in the end what counts is indoor call receive, and minute tariff19:58
DocScrutinizer05and there Thuraya is unbeatable afaik19:58
DocScrutinizer05and since it's GSM-mod'o'fied there are even Thuraya sleeves for iPhones19:59
buZzi dont feel a need to talk through a microphone to people19:59
buZzseems outdated :P20:00
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DocScrutinizer05>>page not found<<20:07
DocScrutinizer05you meant this?
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DocScrutinizer05weird, the video seems hard to find20:11
DocScrutinizer05 still there so I doubt it's a conspiracy ;-)20:12
buZzwhat video?20:12
buZz <-- one of these?20:13
DocScrutinizer05I meant the one at bottom of
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DocScrutinizer05WAAAAHHHH!!!!! Calypso chipset!!21:08
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DocScrutinizer0528:50 ROTFL!!! sending pager messages is for free21:39
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M4rtinKwhat could possibly go wrong :)22:06
M4rtinK(world wide satellite base SPAM! ;-) )22:07
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DocScrutinizer05indeed it's rate limited and volume/month limited22:22
DocScrutinizer05plus you need to know the recipient number, and I guess other safeguard measures apply, like "what's your email addr? please verify by clicking the link in the mail you received"22:24
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