IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2017-03-24

sixwheeledbeastI wish Easylist still had a working online option.00:00
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Wizzup Seems to be going well still!01:35
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totalizatorweird issue - ncdu reports my /opt usage ~800MB but when I df -h it's:04:48
totalizator/home/opt                 2.0G      1.8G     55.3M  97% /opt04:48
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totalizatorFree inodes: 9287904:49
totalizatorany ideas?04:49
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L29Ahsome big file is open and removed?05:02
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L29Ahfiles won't get removed before every process stops using them05:03
totalizatorI have rebooted the n900 many times since I discovered this issue05:43
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L29Ahthen maybe you have a huge number of <4kB files?05:47
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totalizatorlike above Free inodes: 92879 and the total files count is 2538806:03
MaxdamantusWhat does normal du say?06:12
L29Ahare you sure you ran ncdu as root?06:13
totalizatordu: /home/opt                 2.0G      1.8G     55.3M  97% /opt06:14
totalizatoras root, ofc06:14
Maxdamantustotalizator: that looks like df06:14
totalizatoroh gosh, sry06:14
MaxdamantusOh, right.06:15
MaxdamantusUsually maemo has a single partition for /home06:15
totalizatordu -sh /opt06:16
Maxdamantusas you can see, /opt is jst bind-mounted from there.06:16
totalizator833.8M  /opt06:16
Maxdamantusand `df` tells you the usage of the entire filesystem, not just a single bind mot (since that doesn't really have a particular usage)06:16
MaxdamantusYou'd probably see around 1.8G if you did `du -shx /home`06:17
totalizatorgah, you're right06:20
totalizator1.8G    /home06:21
totalizatortime to hunt some files06:21
totalizatorfortunately ncdu has -x as well06:22
totalizatorthank you so much Maxdamantus06:22
Maxdamantusalternatively, just get rid of the FAT32 mount in /home/user/MyDocs and use a larger ext partition.06:22
Maxdamantusassuming you're comfortable doing those operations and don't use the standard UMS mode.06:23
totalizatorwell, what I should really do is to reflash my n90006:24
totalizatorI have never, ever did it before06:24
totalizator.modest cache ~700MB >->o06:25
MaxdamantusDon't think I've reflashed since initially getting it either.06:25
Maxdamantusother than the kernel partition.06:25
totalizatorit simply works, right? ;)06:26
MaxdamantusWell, I have everything under a big ext4 partition and just maintain it if necessary by booting into a system that doesn't need the eMMC.06:27
Maxdamantussort of like you would a normal computer.06:27
totalizatorI should definitely try this06:30
totalizatorso I can simply remove the FAT partition, extend the rest and that's it?06:31
MaxdamantusAlmost. Need to also fix fstab and change the init script that autogenerates it.06:32
Maxdamantusor use chattr to make it immutable.06:32
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Zungoits juesto06:33
Zungoor juest06:33
Zungosorry for going away ;p06:34
totalizatorright; let me lurk into the forum then; thanks again06:34
totalizatorDocScrutinizer05: ncdu is MAGIC06:34
DocScrutinizer05never heard of06:34
totalizatorhaha, no wai06:34
L29Ahncdu is love06:35
totalizatorit comes handy when you need to delete some files right away06:35
totalizatoror jump into the directory06:35
DocScrutinizer05my systems also never heard of it06:36
DocScrutinizer05((<totalizator> well, what I should really do is to reflash my n900))06:38
infobotmethinks lazyflashing is
infobotmethinks jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05I still try to make sense from your different du values for /opt and /home/opt06:39
totalizatornice, thank you06:39
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# du -sh /opt06:39
totalizatorwell, opt is part of home right?06:39
DocScrutinizer05736M    /opt06:39
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# du -sh /home/opt06:39
DocScrutinizer05736M    /home/opt06:39
DocScrutinizer05did you mean df?06:40
totalizatorwhen it comes to 1.8/2.0GB yes - df06:41
Maxdamantusdu traverses a tree of directories summing the sizes of things.06:44
Maxdamantusdf just asks the filesystem how much used/free space there is.06:44
DocScrutinizer05however note df and du work different:
DocScrutinizer05du sums up nominal file sizes, while du counts used blocks06:46
DocScrutinizer05du sums up nominal file sizes, while df counts used blocks06:46
totalizatorncdu shows both values as total disk usage and apparent size06:47
DocScrutinizer05so on statistical average, du will report #files * blocksize/2 less used space than df06:47
DocScrutinizer05this average can be biased when you have mostly very small files06:48
DocScrutinizer05also this rule doesn't apply to all filesystems06:49
DocScrutinizer05iirc for example reiserfs used to store files on byte offsets, regardless of block sizes06:50
DocScrutinizer05other fs do compression and a lot of other funny things: ubifs, like seen on N900 /06:50
totalizatorstill I can't say I like the default N900 partitioning06:53
DocScrutinizer05other than06:53
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"06:53
DocScrutinizer05it's not all that bad06:53
DocScrutinizer05see ~jrtools if you want larger /home06:54
totalizatorbut after all these years? I hold strong 55.3M free in /home 32.6M free in rootfs \:D/06:57
DocScrutinizer0550MB in home sound scary low06:58
totalizatordpkg -l | wc -l 229606:58
DocScrutinizer05you want larger /home06:58
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# dpkg -l | wc -l06:59
DocScrutinizer05I even see freaking skypeui installed on my system >.<07:01
Maxdamantusrootfs                   27.4G     22.8G      3.2G  88% /07:01
totalizatorhah, yup, but when I'm looking at all these apps I can't recall why I have most of them installed07:01
totalizatorMaxdamantus: you got me07:02
totalizatorseems legit07:03
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr | wc -l07:05
DocScrutinizer05though that's bogus of course07:05
DocScrutinizer05just for some sort of relation07:06
DocScrutinizer05du -x /home|sort -n|less07:08
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DocScrutinizer05((some sort of relation)) IOW most packages of dpkg -l are base system, you didn't install them07:32
KotCzarnyisnt 'du' - disk usage? not file usage?07:50
KotCzarnyafair it counts blocks used, not file sizes07:50
KotCzarnyit uses file size when ran with:07:52
KotCzarny       -b, --bytes07:52
KotCzarny              equivalent to '--apparent-size --block-size=1'07:52
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KotCzarnyso you might run with and without -b and compare07:53
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Maxdamantusultimately, `du` also just listens to whatever the filesystem says.11:35
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Maxdamantuson btrfs it counts 0 for the size of a directory.11:37
Maxdamantus$ mkdir -p a/b/c/d/e/f/g/h/i/j/k/l/m/n/o/p/q/r/s/t/u/v/w/x/y/z && du -s a11:38
Maxdamantus0       a11:38
KotCzarnywhat if it really doesnt take additional space?11:38
KotCzarnycreate 200k dirs and do a 'du'11:38
MaxdamantusThen maybe we should all be encoding our file contents in btrfs filenames.11:39
MaxdamantusInfinite space!11:39
KotCzarnymaxd, nah, i meant btrfs does some packaging tricks11:39
KotCzarnycreating plethora of dirs might be a different thing though11:39
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MaxdamantusIt doesn't.11:40
KotCzarnycreate 4k dirs and check?11:40
MaxdamantusIt just always says that a directory's size is 0 blocks.11:40
MaxdamantusOkay, sec.11:40
KotCzarnyoh, fun, btrfs has it's own df: btrfs filesystem df /home11:43
KotCzarnyi wonder if it also has its own du11:43
Maxdamantus$ (js -e 'for(var x = 0; x < 100000; x++) print(x.toString(2).split("").join("/"));' | xargs mkdir -p) && du -sh 111:43
Maxdamantus0       111:43
MaxdamantusIts df has a special purpose.11:44
MaxdamantusIt tells you about allocation of different types of chunks or whatever they're called.11:44
MaxdamantusUnits that are usually 1 GiB and have a particular mode of storage (like raid1, raid0, single, dup, ..)11:45
MaxdamantusData: total=9.94TB, used=9.94TB11:45
MaxdamantusSystem, RAID1: total=32.00MB, used=1.11MB11:45
MaxdamantusMetadata, RAID1: total=33.89GB, used=31.88GB11:45
KotCzarnyanyway, btrfs is not playing fair then, hehe11:46
MaxdamantusWell, neither is ext4.11:46
Maxdamantusafaik, ext4 just says "1" instead of "0".11:46
MaxdamantusNeither number reflects the disk usage of a directory.11:47
KotCzarny# du11:47
KotCzarny4       ./123/12311:47
KotCzarny8       ./12311:47
KotCzarny12      .11:47
KotCzarnyfor me it shows proper numbers11:47
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: yes, you're taking the sum.11:47
KotCzarnyie 4k per dir11:47
MaxdamantusRight, so 123/123 is 4k, 123 is 4k, . is 4k11:47
Maxdamantus4k*3 = 12k11:47
MaxdamantusThere are 3 directories there.11:47
MaxdamantusIf you look at `stat` on each of them, they'll all just say blocks: 111:48
MaxdamantusTry `stat .`11:49
Maxdamantusit'll say "Blocks: 1"11:49
MaxdamantusThe reason du tells you 20 is because it's counting the subdirectories too.11:49
Maxdamantusin btrfs' case, the subdirectories are still all 0 bytes, so everything just sums to 0.11:49
KotCzarnystat isnt recursive11:50
KotCzarnyit apparently only shows usage for current dir without contents11:50
MaxdamantusOh, it's size that's fixed, not blocks.11:50
MaxdamantusAh, blocks are 512 bytes, not 409611:51
MaxdamantusSo it'll just say all directories are 8 blocks = 4096 bytes11:51
KotCzarnyyes, unless particular dir grows over 4k11:52
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MaxdamantusAh yeah, that's true.11:52
Maxdamantus  File: ‘/boot/’11:52
Maxdamantus  Size: 8192            Blocks: 16         IO Block: 4096   directory11:52
KotCzarnyand that's because it doesnt treat dirs as metadata, just as a inode taking space11:55
MaxdamantusWell, disk usage of individual files on btrfs can easily be quite meaningless.11:55
KotCzarnyand in the case of btrfs it probably allocates dirs in metadata area11:55
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MaxdamantusSince you can copy a multi-TiB file in btrfs without using any additional space.11:56
Maxdamantusit can also do transparent compression.11:56
KotCzarnysimilar to hardlinks in ext*11:56
MaxdamantusNo, different to hardlinks.11:57
MaxdamantusWith hardlinks you still have the same file, just multiple names for it.11:57
MaxdamantusNo, very different.11:57
MaxdamantusHardlinking doesn't make new files11:57
MaxdamantusJust new names.11:57
KotCzarnywith a write on the file what would happen on btrfs?11:57
Maxdamantusbtrfs has hardlinks too, because it's a POSIX-compatible filesystem.11:57
luke-jrbtrfs is insane slow11:57
MaxdamantusYes, any write no a file on btrfs is CoW.11:58
luke-jrI regret using it for my home11:58
KotCzarnythen before there is a write, it behaves as hardlink11:58
MaxdamantusI don't feel like it's any slower than when I used ext4.11:58
Maxdamantusext4 for me ended up feeling really slow after using it for years.11:58
luke-jrMaxdamantus: give it time, it seems to get worse with age11:58
KotCzarnywhich is why i've said 'similar'11:58
MaxdamantusI've been using btrfs now as my primary filesystem over 3 or 4 harddisks for .. hmm11:59
MaxdamantusSince the middle of 2013.11:59
MaxdamantusSo around 4 years. How much longer do I need to wait?11:59
KotCzarnyand cow on a multi TB file might be crazily fragmenting11:59
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: every write is CoW, it doesn't matter that there's a copy of it.12:00
Maxdamantusand yes, it's fragmenting, which is why people usually use the "autodefrag" option on harddisks.12:00
MaxdamantusI don't think I really use much that involves a lot of random writes into large files anyway.12:02
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MaxdamantusI just have my browser's cache directory on tmpfs.12:02
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enycZungo: peaesp do come and go here =)14:51
enycZungo: try soying something clear anhd substantial about what you are talking about !14:51
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Zungoi said something like that earlier...14:51
Zungoan apology14:51
Zungoi feel like im new again14:52
enycZungo: because?  new to maemo again ???14:52
Zungoyou clearly dont seem to remember me....14:53
Zungoearlier i said it's juesto14:53
Zungoenyc ^14:54
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enycZungo: not sure i'v e kept track ogp eople here at all tbh15:03
Zungookay nvm15:03
Zungohave a nice day15:03
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NeKitI‘m surprised that some LXDE applications actually look fitting with gtk2-engines-sapwood16:23
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L29Ahsometimes i fell like ρcam lacks the button debouncing18:05
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NeKitsuddenly found
NeKitfgles2 has X11 integration code based on XShmImage, some implementation details could be reused on top of libhybris20:01
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KotCzarnysoftware efficiency at its best:
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DocScrutinizer05Trump for president!!! \o/ oh wait, he already is ;-P23:11
* DocScrutinizer05 is quite happy Trump didn't start with modernizing the nuclear defense processes, but something of minor global impact like abolishing Obamacare23:13
DocScrutinizer05It should be outlawed to have a president with ZILCH experience in politics and government whose pnly 'qualification' for the job is that he managed to make billions with suspicious construction projects and did run a cheesy TV show23:16
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L29Ahtrump decided he won't abolish obamacare23:19
L29Ahhe's an usual lier23:19
L29Ahit should not23:19
L29Ahpolitician == parasite23:20
L29Ahi doubt someone who spent 30 years of his life on parasitism is a worthy president23:20
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DocScrutinizer05to give homour to truth, it's not him who decided to not abolish obamacare, it's been 'his' Republican party representatives who simply didn't obey even when extorted, so the whole obamacare abolishing got postponed and Trump said he won't touch it anytime soon again23:25
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DocScrutinizer05the emperor's new clothes - latest revelation: he's naked23:27
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DocScrutinizer05"all dentists are parasites" (which is not my true belief even while they charge doublepluspremium for everything) - nevertheless I won't decide to have my teeth taken care of by a plumber from now on23:29
DocScrutinizer05and particularly not by SuperMario ;-P23:31
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* L29Ah moves to another country just to make the dentist problems cheaper23:45
L29Ahi have a dremel and would offer some simple dentist stuff but noone would let me to i guess :]23:46
L29Ahbig government says this is some totally serious shit worth spending lots of labour on education and certification23:47
L29AhDocScrutinizer05: the problem is that politicians lack the usual social feedback you have in any other scope23:49
L29Ahif you don't like that dentist, you won't give one your monies23:49
L29Ahmeanwhile politicians don't need to compete for your everyday decisions23:50
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's a systematical problem of representative democracies (in other government schemes it's not perceived as a problem)23:58

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