IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2017-02-07

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jonwilGotta be something I can work on/do that doesn't involve touching nasty code (or code in languages I cant understand like Python or Perl or ARM FPU)00:08
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bencohmight not be perfect, but that's all for tonight01:00
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freemangordonbencoh: thanks a lot :)01:09
freemangordonwill merge it tomorrow on github01:09
bencohyw :)01:15
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jonwilGood that another package has been replaced by FOSS :)01:28
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: could you take a note about jonwil's patch? [2017-02-06 Mon 11:12:58] <jonwil> The source code you need to compile is in the CSSU repo :)01:42
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n810moronI was wondering if anyone here has experience installing (Arch/Debian/Ubuntu/anything) Linux on a N810?01:42
DocScrutinizer05hellp user with intriguing nickname! ;-)01:43
n810moronJust grabbed an N810 because I've always wanted a pocket linux pc01:43
n810moronrealized i have no experience putting linux on n810s01:43
DocScrutinizer05N810 has nasty issues with charging, as long as you don't have maemo4 bme running on it01:44
n810moronwill I be able to charge an N810 over USB?01:44
DocScrutinizer05charging on N910 is soft100% software controlled afaik01:44
DocScrutinizer05no, the N810 doesn't charge over USB01:45
n810moroni bought it without a USB01:45
n810moroni mean charger01:45
DocScrutinizer05you need a 6V power supply with correct barrel jack, no big thing01:45
DocScrutinizer055V, sorry01:46
DocScrutinizer05or simply an adapter USB->barreljack01:47
DocScrutinizer05AC-4E charger (genuine N810) is rated 5.0V/890mA01:47
DocScrutinizer052mm barrel jack01:48
DocScrutinizer05the latter is a tad nasty to find and handle, very flimsy01:48
n810moronim looking around and it seems like the Nokia N810 takes USB chargers?01:49
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vectis3N810 does not charge via usb.01:50
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DocScrutinizer05we had that already, yes01:52
vectis3sorry Doc, just confirming it. I own four of them.01:53
n810moron:( why is life difficult01:53
DocScrutinizer05also see flashing instructions which do require to first attach USB and start flasher, only THEN attach the 2.1mm OD power plug which will boot up the system from power-down01:54
DocScrutinizer05the boot-up is donw since charging is software controlled, and it doesn't charge from USB so no bootup there01:55
DocScrutinizer05the small yellow one:
DocScrutinizer05  2.0mm OD "used in Nokia", first row01:59
n810moron into a standard cellphone charger will work?01:59
n810moronit says it supports the N810 but at this point ebay seems to be more fiction than fact02:00
n810moronalso I really appreciate the help Doc02:00
vectis3n810moron: that looks fine.02:02
DocScrutinizer05yes, yours also looks like matching02:02
n810moronThank you so much :)!02:03
DocScrutinizer05yw :-)02:03
DocScrutinizer05 for our third-world-citizens ;-)02:04
DocScrutinizer05prolly you might want to use a dedicated charger rather than a USB adapter, since ... well, USB is rated at max 500mA unless you use a dedicated USB outlet charger anyway02:07
DocScrutinizer05USB charging never really been a comprehensive concept02:08
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DocScrutinizer05alwys had wide 'niche' usecases where at best it simply fails charging, wors case causes hardware defects02:09
DocScrutinizer05there are notebooks known where attaching such a USB charger adapter would fry the USB port02:10
DocScrutinizer05it's arguable who's at failt then, since USB are specified as shortcircuit-proof02:10
DocScrutinizer05also this is historical anecdote which has little relevance nowadays02:11
n810moroni found a usb charger that can put out 750mA02:12
n810moronclose enough :?02:12
DocScrutinizer05sound just ok for this purpose02:12
DocScrutinizer05yes, absolutely02:12
n810moronawesome C:02:12
DocScrutinizer05AC-4E is rated 890mA and Nokia is known to overprovision quite a lot on their chargers02:14
DocScrutinizer05so 750mA will just do02:15
n810moronlovely :)02:15
n810moronim quite excited to play with the n810 when it comes, so you'll definitely be seeing quite a bit of me come this friday :)02:15
DocScrutinizer05you're welcome :-)02:16
DocScrutinizer05and i'm sure you'll like the N81ß at very least the mech make02:16
DocScrutinizer05it's awesome device02:16
n810moronalso just found a 850mA/5.1V charger, which I think is just about right?02:17
n810moron:D awesome02:17
n810moronhave a wonderful day, bye!02:18
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DocScrutinizer05the 2.0mm barrel plug has one "advantage" over micro-USB plugs for charging: before you damage the device by bending the plug (like happens when N900 drops when plugged to charger) you rather simply breal the damn flimsy plug02:19
DocScrutinizer05happened to me already02:20
DocScrutinizer05those shitty plugs feel like to lever a 100g chocolate with a spaghetto (pasta, dried)02:23
JuestoPerhaps i can flash maemo on nexus 5x?02:23
Juestoor dual boot02:23
DocScrutinizer05no you can't02:24
Juestowhat alternatives do i have to the device itself but using a armel android instead02:24
Juestofor using maemo02:24
DocScrutinizer05maemo has not yet been ported to any other devices than 770, N8x0, N900, N9, and beaglboard02:24
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon is working on making it operable on some cheablet02:26
DocScrutinizer05he and Wizzup and a few others aiui02:26
parazydyep. the tablet we got is a pretty good platform to test02:27
parazydthe screen resolution is also somewhere in there like n90002:27
DocScrutinizer05on N900 there were like 5 or 6 different OS operable02:27
Juestobeaglboard ?02:27
infobotsomebody said fptf was the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see
Wizzupparazyd: I am planning to continue work on wednesday02:28
WizzupI probably won't get time before wed02:28
DocScrutinizer05done by Carsten Munk aka Stskeeps02:29
parazydi hadn't had time myself either02:29
parazydwill try to continue tomorrow at bridge. got a fast machine there :)02:29
Wizzupok, cool :)02:29
DocScrutinizer05ooh, not even xM I guess, just plain BeagleBoard02:30
parazydiirc the beagleboard has the same gpu as n900, right?02:30
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DocScrutinizer05it has the same SoC02:32
DocScrutinizer05almist the same02:32
DocScrutinizer05iirc N900 is HS, while BB is GP02:32
DocScrutinizer05aka OMAP3430 vs OMAP353002:33
DocScrutinizer05N900 indeed is a HS device, but not enabled02:33
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 is OMAP3730 and still very similar GPU02:35
DocScrutinizer05PVR540 vs N900 PVR530 iirc02:35
DocScrutinizer05I personally thing it should be backward compatible kust like the complete OMAP3630 is backward compatible to OMAP343002:36
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DocScrutinizer05IOW it might be faster and have more features but is feature complete to its ancestor02:37
Juestowhat i should buy then?02:42
Jueston900 or n9?02:42
Juestois there a device where maemo works reliably fast?02:42
Jueston9 is on meego02:44
DocScrutinizer05N9 is for HARM only, and when Maemo fremantle is zombie then HARM to me smells like rotten hell02:44
Juestoi could buy a n902:44
Juestofound in mercadolibre02:44
Juestobut not a full n90002:45
Juestodifferent parts instead02:45
DocScrutinizer05oh it's a nice device, but I doubt any CSSU alike activity will arise for N8/HARM ever02:45
Juestoand neo900 ?02:45
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 is in development02:45
DocScrutinizer05and guaranteed to be compatible to maemo fremantle02:46
Juestodoes it exist already?02:46
DocScrutinizer05just with twice as fast CPU and 4 times the RAM02:46
Juestoaka full built yet and usable02:46
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 is in development02:46
Juestoby development you mean..?02:46
DocScrutinizer05we're layouting proto_v202:46
DocScrutinizer05you don't want a Neo900 anyway when you already wonder if you want a N90002:47
DocScrutinizer05it's way too expensive for your needs02:47
Juestoi'll be using it for trying out02:48
Juestosomething to explore02:48
Juestosince i already have android02:49
DocScrutinizer05you have no idea about what it's like to use maemo on a phone until you own and use a N90002:49
Juestoa n900 is literally unobtainable here in argentina also02:49
buZzDocScrutinizer05: or any other maemo device ;)02:50
DocScrutinizer05and I hardly know anybody who wants to go back to android after using maemo02:50
Juestoso the n900 is the "top device" nokia made ?02:50
Juestoof the maemo series02:50
DocScrutinizer05Juesto: yes, Argentina is an awful place to be, for maemonians02:50
buZzJuesto: yeah its the top model, the others arent phones, just pda/'internet tablets'02:51
DocScrutinizer05yes, basically. Though Nokia would say the N9 was02:51
buZzwhich isnt the same as N9 , afaik02:51
DocScrutinizer05N9 is HARM and locked down into oblivion02:51
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
JuestoTPM framework?02:52
DocScrutinizer05sevureboot shit02:52
Juestoaka EFI02:52
JuestoOh well02:53
DocScrutinizer05aka tivoization02:53
Juestoanyways, is there a way to fix the most prone to break parts of the n900? such as the usb pot02:53
DocScrutinizer05N9 is broken by design02:53
DocScrutinizer05as far as HARM OS is concerned02:53
buZzthere is always a way to fix anything02:53
buZzit just might take infinite effort/energy02:54
DocScrutinizer05buZz: in this case literally02:54
buZzDocScrutinizer05: i have good hopes :P02:54
Juestoi am talking about the n900 hardware that is prone to be broken02:54
DocScrutinizer05buZz: since you have to fix not only bootloader but whole HARM which is security infested from top to toes02:55
buZzDocScrutinizer05: i already switched topic to n900 :P02:55
DocScrutinizer05err sorry, flu02:55
DocScrutinizer05bear with me02:55
DocScrutinizer05parts prone to brwak in N900? let's see... USB jack, flat cable, NASTY "No SIM" aka BGA solder points popping open02:56
DocScrutinizer05first two easily fixable, latter one almost impossible02:57
DocScrutinizer05then lately it seems the PVR segfault issues increase, maybe it wears out over time too02:58
buZzi have heard someone blew their GSM radio in n90002:58
buZzit still worked afterwards02:59
DocScrutinizer05huh? mind to elaborate?02:59
buZzyeah not sure02:59
infoboti guess springfix is  and
DocScrutinizer05related? ^^^03:00
buZznot sure, may be03:02
buZzit did seem interrupted connection caused his radio to not work03:05
buZzor at least, error out03:05
DocScrutinizer05it's hard to make smart meaningful comments on "someone blew their GSM radio in n900"03:08
DocScrutinizer05basically the BB5 modem also is an OMAP system so technically unbrickable. Only failure mode is hw defect03:09
DocScrutinizer05everything else is just a sw bug or hickup03:09
buZzDocScrutinizer05: there doesnt always have to be the perfect answer ;) i dont have more details than that it wasnt transmitting and still functioning03:12
DocScrutinizer05the only 3 known hw failure modes in N900 BB5 are: *- frying by battery reversal  *- antenna (or SIM) contact dirty (clean it)  *- NASTY: chip BGA solder pints pop open from beding PCB by hard pressure to keyboard03:13
DocScrutinizer05well, how can it function when it's not transmitting? isn't TX a mandatory core function of a CMT?03:14
buZzpoor nokia n900 looks like its shot :D
buZzDocScrutinizer05: the n900 itself was functioning, the radio was not transmitting03:15
DocScrutinizer05aah the N900 of course still functions as PDA/computer when the modem peripheral is defect03:16
buZzlike a fast n81003:16
buZzor a very fast 770 -with- keyboard03:17
* DocScrutinizer05 never even touched a 77003:17
buZzits kinda retrochique now03:18
DocScrutinizer05I _touched_ raterman's N800 and that made me WANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANT N8x0, I found the N810 nicer though03:18
buZzn800 was my first and made my like maemo03:18
buZzin the end i spent about 80 euros to get 770, n800, n810 and 2x n90003:19
buZz+some money for nokia cases :P03:19
DocScrutinizer05I think I spent 80EUR on phnecalls where to get a N81003:19
DocScrutinizer05recently I got me another 5 N81003:20
DocScrutinizer05for quite 'cheap'03:20
DocScrutinizer05my first one was like iirc 350 bucks, or more?03:21
buZzmy n810 was 24 euro i think03:21
buZzEUR 23,4903:22
DocScrutinizer05then same shop got me a spare one a year later, took them 4 weeks. And a few years later the shop was gone ;-P03:22
buZzand 6 shipping :P03:22
DocScrutinizer05dang, you can't be a N810 poineer03:22
buZzoct 201603:23
buZzwell. bedtime here \o03:23
DocScrutinizer05when using my N810 as only 'computer' 90% of day, I moaned "IF *ONLY* they had inclided a modem into that thing!!!", then a few months later I learned about Nokia's plans for N90003:24
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DocScrutinizer05others felt alike ;-) See
DocScrutinizer05buZz: n8, see ^^^ for nice dreams ;-)03:27
DocScrutinizer05blueled is an awesome guy03:27
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Vajbtried to make garage account yesterday, but it failed. So much for the voting of packages...09:11
Vajbi got link and when i set my details it just blurbed "access denied"09:11
freemangordonbencoh: hmm, what is pull address for that repo?09:11
KotCzarnyi think garage accounts have to be confirmed by admin09:12
freemangordonbencoh: git remote add bencoh and then git pull --rebase bencoh master results in:09:14
freemangordonfatal: repository '' not found09:14
Vajbwell it said that i have link and when i click and put my username and pass it is activated09:14
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JuestoKotCzarny: admin approval is for packages not account validation btw09:21
Juestofreemangordon: tried browsing it?09:21
Juestoor git://09:22
freemangordonJuesto: git:// doesnt work09:25
freemangordonand yes, I tried browsing it, but that doesn't help muc for doing pull09:25
Juestotry downloading it the entire thing then rename to .git ?09:27
KotCzarnydoesnt git work with http:// too?09:28
Juestothat link seems a empty repository09:28
Juestoor not, i dont know09:28
Juestobencoh: what's your git config for your git repo?09:28
KotCzarnyeither he didnt setup git/repo properly or it was late09:29
KotCzarnyor his apache doesnt serve .git things09:30
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KotCzarnyno .git dir09:30
JuestoKotCzarny: the entire thing is the .git dir09:31
KotCzarnyso he copied wrong subdir09:32
Juestohe has cgit09:34
Juestohmm freemangordon perhaps you're not specifying the branch you want?09:35
Juestoseems its something where different people publish things09:35
bencohfreemangordon: I probably forgot to configure it for http index update09:36
Juestothe others people stuff have the same problem, i think, not sure09:36
Juestoor we dont know how that site works09:36
bencohit's my server.09:38
bencoh09:29 < KotCzarny> either he didnt setup git/repo properly or it was late09:38
bencohand KotCzarny is right09:38
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bencohfreemangordon: should work now, sorry about that09:45
bencohgit update-server-info in bare repo, for the record.09:46
bencohand config it with receive.updateserverinfo = 1 for automatic update on push09:47
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KotCzarnymontjoie: why so?10:35
KotCzarnyECHAN. eh10:35
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zGrrmoin ;)12:39
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freemangordonbencoh: yep, it is ok now16:37
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bencohfreemangordon: :)17:19
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WizzupDoes anyone know if fennec is android only now? I know they dropped maemo a long time ago, but was hoping for non-maemo non-android builds..17:44
Wizzup(to build it for devuan at some point, perhaps)17:44
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Juestoyes Wizzup19:11
Juestoits also iOS iirc19:11
Juestoperhaps Firefox OS too19:11
Juestoidk about ubuntu touch19:11
Juestoyou can try building fennec tho19:12
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NeKitJuesto, Firefox OS is no more, and they dropped B2G code19:14
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Juestoyeah well, im outdated since im zlined in moznet19:27
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: fennec was worse than standard FF even at the time they made it genuinely for maemo19:44
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: not touch wise19:48
bencoheven touch wise it wasn't that good, but yeah19:49
Wizzupat least it had recent code at the time :)19:49
bencohmore recent than microb you mean19:49
DocScrutinizer05I think fennec was slower and iirc used _more_ RAM than FF19:50
Wizzupbencoh: less exploitable19:50
DocScrutinizer05don't know what's "touch wise"19:51
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: I don't care about speed, at this point, microb cannot render any site that is useful for me19:51
Wizzup(which is mostly mobile sites of public transport)19:51
DocScrutinizer05aaah so you're after GUI / UX adaptions in fennec?19:52
Wizzupmight still be able to take old fennec and recent xul19:53
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bencohWizzup: tbh I' starting to think the best we could do regarding specific "mobile" websites is what cutetube does with *tube sites20:03
bencohparse html and render it in a non-expensive, native manner20:04
bencohsince websites do break after a while if you stop upgrading browser anyway20:04
bencohso we'd at least have a decent user experience20:05
bencohWizzup: btw some mobile website do work when chaning useragent20:05
KotCzarnybencoh: it's all and dandy if there was free, stable api20:09
KotCzarnybut due to abusers there isnt20:10
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Siceloexamples of non-working mobile sites?20:21
Siceloi've used opera mobile, fennec, qml-browser .. and each time i come back to MicroB for sites that *I* use ... for me it works way better than the alternatives .. some sites need a lot of patience though20:24
bencohuber doesn't work with microb. but does work with one of the others iirc20:33
Wizzupwell, I don't care about uber :)20:34
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Siceloi don't have an uber account, but the home page is loading just fine (just taking forever) ... looks like it's not even mobile page20:36
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xesit's just me ..or nobody else noticed about this?
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KotCzarnyxes: i use oscp for media ;)22:41
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xesKotCzarny: is it your default player?22:49
KotCzarnyhavent gotten around to integrate it nicely, but it supports external commands from os22:51
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xesKotCzarny: well, let me say that a better integration and some new style for the ui would make it more usable and attractive23:05
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