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| sixwheeledbeast | Nice to see the riddle of the mystery memory leaks in h-h is getting answers. Amusing how they where all marked as WONTFIX in bug tracker blaming extras packages for the leaks. | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| * kerio shakes his fist at elop | 00:22 | |
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| sixwheeledbeast | or yes s/Amusing/Disappointing is another way of expressing that | 00:22 |
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| buZz | hmm curious ... https://www.arduino.cc/download_handler.php?f=/arduino-1.8.1-linuxarm.tar.xz | 10:29 |
| buZz | wonder if that'll work on n900 :) | 10:29 |
| buZz | guess i should install easydebian or something? | 10:30 |
| bencoh | what's that ? | 10:31 |
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| buZz | is that 'easy-deb-chroot' ? | 10:33 |
| buZz | bencoh: its the Arduino IDE, they now have a arm release | 10:33 |
| bencoh | why would you want that on n900? | 10:33 |
| buZz | for infield reprogramming | 10:34 |
| buZz | with less hardware ;) | 10:34 |
| bencoh | The environment is written in Java and based on Processing and other open-source software. | 10:34 |
| buZz | yeah , gcc , avrdude | 10:35 |
| buZz | specific recompiles of gcc though | 10:35 |
| buZz | and patched avrdude | 10:35 |
| bencoh | why would you want to run such a bloat on n900? :/ | 10:35 |
| buZz | :) | 10:35 |
| buZz | java isnt bloat specifically | 10:35 |
| bencoh | I'd suggest gcc/avrdude and your favourite text/code editor on n900 | 10:36 |
| * buZz install easy-deb-chroot | 10:36 | |
| buZz | i'll download the debian image at work :) | 10:40 |
| Maxdamantus | speaking of which, does anyone here use vim a lot, and if so, does it tend to crash xterm in Maemo for you? | 10:41 |
| Maxdamantus | I always have to use vim really slowly in osso-xterm, otherwise it crashes. | 10:41 |
| Maxdamantus | it ocassionally crashes when doing things in irssi too, but nowhere near as often as in vim if I try to do things at a natural speed. | 10:42 |
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| Maxdamantus | writing things in insert mode is fine, but command mode usually crashes if I try entering too many things at once. | 10:43 |
| buZz | i havent been able to crash osso-xterm with irssi yet | 10:43 |
| Maxdamantus | it's fairly rare with irssi. | 10:44 |
| buZz | or anything else :P | 10:44 |
| buZz | but i only own a n900 since 2017 | 10:44 |
| Maxdamantus | The irssi thing might have to do with tmux, since I'm pretty much always using irssi in tmux in ssh. | 10:44 |
| buZz | i just use screen, cause i'm ancient | 10:45 |
| Maxdamantus | but vim seems to crash consistently through tmux/ssh or just when running it from maemo or a debian chroot on the device. | 10:45 |
| Maxdamantus | btw, root exploit found in screen in the last few days. | 10:45 |
| buZz | still, if vim crashes, it shouldnt pull xterm along | 10:45 |
| Maxdamantus | It's not vim crashing, just xterm. | 10:46 |
| buZz | local root if you use the logfiles in screen, nice one | 10:46 |
| buZz | (i dont use that) | 10:46 |
| Maxdamantus | It's not a matter of whether you use them. | 10:47 |
| Maxdamantus | it just depends on where the +s bit is. | 10:47 |
| Maxdamantus | if it's setuid root, then any user can create empty/log files as root. | 10:48 |
| buZz | on multiuser systems yeh | 10:48 |
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| Maxdamantus | well, on systems where you already have programs running under supposedly non-trusted users. | 10:49 |
| Maxdamantus | there's a reason there are usually 30 or so users in /etc/passwd, even on a "single-user" system. | 10:49 |
| buZz | yeah, if you give them passwords to log in, you're not so sane ;) | 10:50 |
| buZz | or even a shell | 10:50 |
| bencoh | Maxdamantus: I use vim on n900 | 10:55 |
| bencoh | but I ditched osso-xterm a long time ago | 10:55 |
| bencoh | that's actually one of the very first things I did | 10:55 |
| bencoh | I use (plain old) xterm with some fine-tuned Xdefaults, and a heavily patched xorg keymap | 10:56 |
| bencoh | (so that I can type pretty much any character I need) | 10:57 |
| bencoh | some day I'll ditch maemo input method and replace it with ibus, too ... | 10:58 |
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| Maxdamantus | Yeah, I could mostly get by with rxvt-unicode. The main things I was missing when trying to use it as my main terminal were page up/down and something to interact with X selections. | 11:07 |
| Maxdamantus | so for the latter I just used `xclip` a lot more than usualy. | 11:07 |
| Maxdamantus | s/y.$/./ | 11:07 |
| Maxdamantus | Dunno what to do about page up/down .. my layout is already fairly full. | 11:09 |
| Maxdamantus | Have pretty much just fit every printable ASCII character on it. | 11:09 |
| Maxdamantus | with one double modifier. | 11:10 |
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| n0x | Anybody here? | 11:48 |
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| ff_ | Maxdamantus: for page up/down home/end I use http://paste.debian.net/910499/ in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 file | 13:55 |
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| Maxdamantus | Mm, I already have up/down/left/right under the modifier. | 14:13 |
| Maxdamantus | Guess I could just make it shift+level2 | 14:13 |
| Maxdamantus | for pgup/pgdown | 14:13 |
| buZz | lol wtf, easy-deb-chroot's image downloader only has debian 5 or 6? :D | 14:18 |
| buZz | kinda very ancient | 14:18 |
| Wizzup | at this point I'd suggest to get alpine chroots instead | 14:20 |
| buZz | hm, 'alpine linux' the distro? | 14:22 |
| buZz | if i search 'alpine' in app manager, it finds some licensing program? | 14:23 |
| buZz | is that what you ment? :P | 14:23 |
| buZz | ah | 14:23 |
| buZz | Alpine - an Alternatively Licensed Program for Internet. | 14:23 |
| buZz | News & Email - is a terminal-based tool for reading, sending, and managing electronic messages. | 14:23 |
| buZz | ok, that cant be what you ment :P | 14:23 |
| ff_ | also xbindkeys is nice, by every shift + mod5 + ctrl + any key combination we can start "evkey -d -t -1 /dev/input/event1" and then any commands | 14:26 |
| ff_ | buZz: I thin jessie is the newest, so it's debian 8 | 14:30 |
| ff_ | *think | 14:30 |
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| ff_ | from here http://qole.org/files/ | 14:32 |
| buZz | ooo cool! i can use that with easy-deb-chroot ? | 14:48 |
| ff_ | yes | 14:50 |
| buZz | thanks :D | 14:50 |
| ff_ | more gratitude for sulu :) | 14:51 |
| buZz | thanks sulu :D | 14:52 |
| ff_ | he compiled 2.6 kernel & build distro | 14:52 |
| ff_ | it work with kernel power, don't know with stock kernel | 14:54 |
| buZz | i think i run power kernel indeed | 14:55 |
| buZz | i guess most CSSU runners do | 14:55 |
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| ff_ | you may right, ker pow here and it works fine | 14:58 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders if it's about time for CSSU to roll a real full system update to fremantle PR2.0 | 16:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | of course with keeping compatibility for *all* apps that do not have a tightly mainatined and thoroughly tested update in CSSU | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even if that might need LD_PRELOAD or chroot for some apps | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | can't be too hard in theory at least to write a generic backward compatibility wrapper that takes care about all apps that are listed in a config file containing all apps of unknown compatibility to PR2.0 | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | PR2.0 could finally sanitize optification (aka nuke it), introduce new kernel and glibc, and possibly even switch to thumb if we could manage to provide genuine thumbified fiasco image etc | 17:07 |
| ff_ | for now is it possible to unpack/mount combine img, modify it, pack/build the img and flash device with it? | 17:17 |
| ff_ | which tool can be used to build combine & fiasco image? | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | use fiascogen | 17:50 |
| Vajb | i thought that that pali's tool can create images now? | 17:52 |
| Vajb | that xf000 or something like that | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fiascogen | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 0xffff maybe too | 17:55 |
| Vajb | -.- see, that's why i usually shut up. Not even close | 17:55 |
| ff_ | if fiascogen can generate combine too? | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's its purpose. 0xffff maybe only can extract, or somesuch limitation | 18:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 0xFFFF my favourite number :) | 18:00 |
| ff_ | :) | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also 0xffff is a flasher, not an image builder | 18:01 |
| ff_ | fiascogen from maemo sdk | 18:01 |
| ff_ | too much effort for me with sdk, anyway is there any faster method to access to clipboard than python gtk? | 18:03 |
| ff_ | python is quite slow | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | effort with sdk? | 18:05 |
| ff_ | I don't have access to PC now | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so what do you need a fiasco builder for? | 18:06 |
| ff_ | modify image, build and use it as fast backup | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | >>for now is it possible to unpack/mount combine img, modify it, pack/build the img and flash device with it?<< yes, with a linux PC and fiascogen | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also see | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~bm | 18:09 |
| infobot | backupmenu is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I *guess* you could also run fiascogen on target (N900) | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | BM doesn't | 18:11 |
| NeKit | is it possible to have rootfs with latest CSSU packages to use it inside chroot/LXC on another device? | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but there's an explanation how ro build a fiasco from BM backup | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | NeKit: not really | 18:12 |
| ff_ | so backupmenu is the best for now I think | 18:16 |
| ff_ | is it possible to run osRescue.img in RAM and reboot that boot osRescue on the same device? :D | 18:20 |
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| enyc | DocScrutinizer51: whats' the story with the kernel, why is it stuck on 2.6.28 and not at least 2.6.32 f.example ooi ? | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's about the closed blobs mainly PVR afaik | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe also API changes | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ff_: no | 18:53 |
| ff_ | because of resetting RAM during reboot? | 18:54 |
| ff_ | I know that's silly, but I'm just curious | 18:56 |
| bencoh | ff_: wait, what do you want to do? | 18:56 |
| bencoh | oh, I think I get it | 18:58 |
| bencoh | well, you can actually do something quite close to it, using kexec | 18:58 |
| ff_ | on n900, put osRescue.img into RAM, reboot device, but do something once in boot region that osRescue will boot from RAM | 18:58 |
| bencoh | but I wouldn't assume kexec for arm worked well with kernel 2.6.28 | 18:58 |
| bencoh | kexec is actually meant for that - put kernel/initrd in some place in ram, run some command instead of the usual reboot, and kernel jumps to new kernel after doing some cleaning | 18:59 |
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| bencoh | actually motorola droid4 (nice hw kbd / slider, omap4 with separate modem) had a locked bootloader but cyanogen guys were able to load custom kernels on it using kexec | 19:02 |
| bencoh | but I suspect android kernel there was a bit more recent | 19:02 |
| bencoh | (if it wasn't for the locked bootloader I'd prolly have bought a droid4 already) | 19:03 |
| ff_ | yeh, something like that, thanks | 19:03 |
| bencoh | well ... https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70083 | 19:04 |
| bencoh | doesn't look good | 19:04 |
| bencoh | it might actually be because of the wdog actually | 19:05 |
| bencoh | let's say that new kernel doesn't have time to reconfigure wdog ... then it will hang | 19:06 |
| NeKit | heh, I'm currently trying my luck to get Droid 4 | 19:06 |
| ff_ | I was thinking of buying droid4, but you mentioned about locked bootloader... | 19:07 |
| ff_ | :) | 19:07 |
| bencoh | NeKit: well, if you succeed in doing anything useful with it | 19:07 |
| bencoh | I mean ... apart from kexecing | 19:08 |
| NeKit | if it doesn't get confiscated by Russian customs first, but what's wrong with kexec? | 19:08 |
| bencoh | nothing per-see, it just means that you have to 1. trust their bootloader 2. run an android kernel + some userland first | 19:09 |
| bencoh | then you can jump to <insert open OS here> | 19:09 |
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| bencoh | to my knowledge nobody reversed the RIL used there, btw (since cyanogen reuses blobs_ | 19:10 |
| bencoh | so you'd have to reverse it your self if you wanted to use phone | 19:10 |
| NeKit | it can be reused through Mer ofono plugin | 19:10 |
| bencoh | on keep android and slap libhybris/ofono on top of it. nemo/sfos-style | 19:10 |
| bencoh | s/on/or/ | 19:10 |
| infobot | bencoh meant: or keep android and slap libhybris/ofono on top of it. nemo/sfos-style | 19:10 |
| bencoh | but that means moar blobs | 19:11 |
| bencoh | it's possible though, that's how sfos works on all those androiphones | 19:12 |
| NeKit | the good thing that it's relatively hardware-agnostic then | 19:12 |
| bencoh | this might be a way to get more people to work on the hildon/maemo-like port | 19:14 |
| bencoh | apart from the fact that maemo-like usually means Xorg, and that wont really work on top of android/hybris afaict | 19:15 |
| bencoh | xwayland on wayland on android, maybe :> | 19:17 |
| NeKit | I could start hildon on Redmi Note 2 with libhybris graphics, but it was hacked to render directly to SurfaceFlinger instead of returning picture to Xorg | 19:17 |
| bencoh | NeKit: hildon-gtk2 or hildon-gtk3? | 19:17 |
| NeKit | hildon-gtk2, but it shouldn't matter | 19:18 |
| bencoh | NeKit: maemo apps still expect gtk2, which means xorg | 19:18 |
| bencoh | unless you hacked gtk2 as well? | 19:18 |
| NeKit | Xorg is running, just not displaying anything | 19:18 |
| bencoh | sure but how does gtk2 render? | 19:18 |
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| NeKit | it renders to pixmap as usual, then Hildon loads it to texture and uses OpenGL to render everything | 19:20 |
| bencoh | well I guess I'm missing something / should dive into the gtk/hildon relationship | 19:21 |
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| freemangordon | NeKit: and how's that supposed to work in non-compositing mode? | 21:47 |
| NeKit | it won't :) | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | :) | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | yeah, my question was rhetoric. | 21:49 |
| NeKit | I looked at Raspberry Pi OpenGL + Xorg example (their driver doesn't have Xorg support). It's possible to do rendering to offscreen buffer, then copy it to pixmap and to Xorg | 21:51 |
| NeKit | not sure how much doing multiply copies would hurt perfomance, but it's better solution probably | 21:51 |
| freemangordon | NeKit: it seems you know the stuff, why don;t you join the porting party? lets have it first running on upstream linux, then we'll find a way to run it on wayland/libhybris | 21:51 |
| freemangordon | NeKit: we can use clutter for that I guess | 21:52 |
| freemangordon | (offscreen rendering) | 21:52 |
| freemangordon | but, I guess the performance will be terrible, pipeline flush on every frame | 21:53 |
| NeKit | well, I'm not sure how I can be helpful to the porting party right now, since I don't have GTK+/Maemo experience | 21:57 |
| NeKit | what I wanted to try is integrating libhybris builds to make it more or less run on recent devices | 21:57 |
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| freemangordon | NeKit: well, porting hildon is just a part of the job that needs to be done, there is stuff like moving to modern init system (be it upstart or systemd), packaging, etc. The point is - if there is something usable, more people will be attracted. At least this is what I hope for. | 22:02 |
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| NeKit | to start apps without source code, like Maemo system apps, would chroot be needed? | 22:26 |
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| bencoh | in a classic Xorg environment, I'd expect both libs to coexist nicely in the same rootfs | 22:38 |
| bencoh | since different ABI means different lib version number | 22:38 |
| bencoh | we might have issues with share (/usr/share and the likes) files though | 22:39 |
| bencoh | if they become incompatible for any reason we'd have to rebuild old libs with a different share prefix | 22:40 |
| bencoh | (or new ones for that matters) | 22:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or use mount namespaces | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | per process or per user | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pretty simple | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a 5liner wrapper script | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm quite sceptic that stuff like 'modern init system' is anything needed to improve attractiviry of maemo. Rather support for existing apps incl their old init system is a key issue. Seen too many OS fail just because no initial stock of working apps been available so they died from no chicken no egg | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | linux is attractive because of basic compatibility to 1990 apps | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | stuff like wayland and systemd and their proponents are denying that and think new ==leete==better | 23:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: the problem is that maemo init system is a mixture of upstart and sysv and that doesn't fit in anything upstream | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so? | 23:56 |
| freemangordon | we already discussed that - the less forks to support, the more time will be used for more sane tasks | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | my init system on my PC also doesn't fit into upstream. Maemo is maemo's upstream *particularly* for sich distro specific stuff like init system | 23:57 |
| freemangordon | give me 5 fulltime job devs and I will make it like that | 23:57 |
| freemangordon | but until then, it is better to stick to the wide-spread distros | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oh, and the waaay more demanding task to MAKE A WHOLE NEW (to maemo) INIT system is feasible part time? | 23:59 |
| freemangordon | it is not whole new, scripts just need to be ported and this is trivial | 23:59 |
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